[HN Gopher] Building arbitrary Life patterns in 15 gliders
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Building arbitrary Life patterns in 15 gliders
        
       Author : mikro2nd
       Score  : 486 points
       Date   : 2022-11-30 07:04 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
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 (TXT) w3m dump (btm.qva.mybluehost.me)
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | I had a particularly hard time grokking the way the semilator
       | works to reduce pattern size. It's a pretty difficult term to
       | google too, being so similar to the word 'simulator'. Does anyone
       | well versed in GoL-ogy care to share a short ELI5?
       | 
       | Edit: thanks you people for the explanation, makes sense. Nice
       | hack to make it feasible.
        
         | biggiemac42 wrote:
         | Right, as far as I can tell the term "semilator" was coined for
         | this task, so google won't help.
         | 
         | The middle of the RCT pattern where all of the action happens,
         | reads its first bit 2^N generations B.S (before singularity, or
         | before splat, whichever you prefer). Next bit is 2^(N-1) B.S.
         | Next would be 2^(N-2), but this is what the semilator changes.
         | 
         | During the franky enormous gap between 2^(N-1) and 2^(N-2)
         | generations B.S, extra spaceships come in at an orthogonal
         | direction. These have two possible configurations, giving
         | equivalent results to either of the possible bit reads. This
         | accelerates the speed of bit reading, and means that N of
         | millions can be emulated by a pattern with N less than 30. Much
         | less initial distance, much less time. The addition of millions
         | of cells of spaceships doesn't make the overall pattern smaller
         | in an informational sense, just in the scale of time and
         | distance between its constituent parts.
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | So the full-size pattern works by bouncing a signal back-and-
         | forth between the construction site and an oncoming GPSE. Each
         | time it does this it produces either one or two gliders
         | depending on the positioning of the GPSE. It is these gliders
         | that do the construction.
         | 
         | But the 'recipe' contains 1665791 bits, meaning the signal has
         | to bounce back-and-forth 1665791 times. Because the distance to
         | the GPSE halves every time, it would have to start at a
         | distance of 2^1665791, which is impractically large.
         | 
         | So instead we only have it bounce back-and-forth a small number
         | of times (26), and insert the other 1665765 bits 'manually' by
         | adding streams of 1665765 spaceships that collide near the
         | construction site.
        
       | rotexo wrote:
       | As a biologist with nearly no physics knowledge, this sort of
       | work _seems_ to have more in common with setting up quantum
       | computers than it does with thinking about self-replication in
       | living organisms, at least in terms of the lack of robustness to
       | environmental noise. Maybe that is just overly metaphorical
       | thinking on my part.
        
         | nneonneo wrote:
         | It's mathematics and computer science, not biology. Nobody is
         | claiming that a setup requiring 2^1500000 units of space to run
         | is anywhere near a realistic simulation of biological processes
         | :)
         | 
         | Nevertheless, it's a fantastic example of how simple rules can
         | give rise to complex systems.
        
           | dvgrn wrote:
           | Yup, the connection to self-replication has showed up mostly
           | in the discussion here, in relation to true self-replicating
           | patterns like the https://conwaylife.com/wiki/0E0P_metacell
           | -- which does have a few vaguely cell-like attributes.
           | 
           | The RCT design is very much a mathematical construct, as
           | opposed to anything with a biological inspiration. And the
           | RCT's ability to construct itself is more of a theoretical
           | afterthought at this point -- the engineering work hasn't
           | been done yet to produce a demo of that kind of thing.
           | 
           | The point is well taken, about the fragility of Conway's Life
           | with respect to environmental noise. That topic has also come
           | up here and there in these comments, e.g.,
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33797799#33800301
        
       | pugworthy wrote:
       | Imagine in 1970 someone reading Martin Gardner's Scientific
       | American article describing 'John Conway's new solitaire game
       | "life"'. Perhaps the reader played around with graph paper plus
       | pencil and eraser to explore what could be done.
       | 
       | "Interesting", they might say. Or, "Fascinating!" even.
       | 
       | And then you show them this article. Just imagine how mind
       | blowing it would be to them.
       | 
       | Original SciAm article ->
       | https://www.ibiblio.org/lifepatterns/october1970.html
        
         | yarnover wrote:
         | That was me, reading the original article as a youngster,
         | working out generations on graph paper, etc. The difference is
         | that I have been following the progress of researchers of Life
         | through the years. It's still astonishing!
        
           | dvgrn wrote:
           | Heh, yes, same here more or less -- I wrote an assembly-code
           | Life program for my family's first personal computer (TRS-80
           | Model I) in the early 1980s, then mostly forgot all about
           | Life for almost two decades ... until it became possible to
           | search the Internet for "Conway's Life". At that point I was
           | completely floored by how much progress had been made since
           | the last time I was paying attention.
           | 
           | Ever since 2001 I've been keeping a close eye on new
           | developments so I don't get surprised like that again.
        
       | snoopy_telex wrote:
       | Amazing accomplishment! If I didn't know better, this could have
       | been in the next bobiverse book!
        
       | pastrami_panda wrote:
       | This is an awesome article, and Conway would've been incredibly
       | excited about this result. Thanks for sharing!
        
       | NeoTar wrote:
       | Do we have any idea / intuition about what proportion of patterns
       | are build-able?
       | 
       | If not on an infinite grid, then some subset (i.e. 100% of 1x1
       | patterns are build-able, 80% of 3x3 patterns, 60% of 5x5
       | patterns, etc.)
        
         | chriswarbo wrote:
         | There are "garden of eden" patterns which can only exist as an
         | initial configuration: there is no pattern which evolves into a
         | garden of eden, hence there can be no constructor capable of
         | building them
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden_(cellular_autom...
         | 
         | If we limit ourselves to glider interactions, the article links
         | to the following patterns which cannot be constructed
         | (including garden of eden patterns):
         | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Category:Patterns_that_can_not_b...
        
           | knome wrote:
           | I wonder if you could bypass this with a level of
           | indirection.
           | 
           | If the GoL wizards can construct an expanding and initially
           | configurable 'GoL in GoL' grid [1], they could configure the
           | 'garden of eden' as the initial configuration for their 'GoL
           | in GoL' simulation.
           | 
           | It's not the same thing, of course, but it would allow you to
           | run Garden of Eden patterns still starting with just your
           | initial 15 gliders.
           | 
           | To construct a garden of eden pattern, you must first
           | construct the universe :)
           | 
           | [1] similar to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8
        
             | chriswarbo wrote:
             | Sure, we can build them with "meta cells"; but that's just
             | emulation (the same way a SNES emulator doesn't make my
             | laptop a SNES).
             | 
             | We already have GoL turing machines (with "tape factories"
             | that travel faster than the read/write head); we could
             | likewise use those to emulate GoL with arbitrary input,
             | just by setting up an appropriate "tape". The result is far
             | less pretty though ;)
             | 
             | I touched on this in a sibling comment:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33799084
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | There exists an 'orphan' pattern that cannot arise in any
         | configuration after the first generation. When we look at large
         | patterns, the proportion of them that contain an orphan tends
         | to 1.
         | 
         | On the other hand the smallest known orphan is 12 by 8, and we
         | also know that all still lifes (unchanging patterns) with up to
         | 21 cells can be built.
        
           | enkid wrote:
           | 21 cells would be a 3 by 7?
        
             | OscarCunningham wrote:
             | Gardens of Eden can be arbitrary patterns, whereas only the
             | 21-cell _still lifes_ are known to be constructible.
        
               | enkid wrote:
               | Ok, but what do you mean by a "still life" of 21 cells?
               | Is that a rectangle in a larger field or is it an
               | arbitrary set of cells?
        
               | OscarCunningham wrote:
               | A pattern with 21 live cells in any bounding box.
        
               | enkid wrote:
               | Thanks for answering!
        
               | dvgrn wrote:
               | (Not just any such pattern, though -- a still life also
               | means that it doesn't change when you evolve it according
               | to Life rules.)
        
               | OscarCunningham wrote:
               | Also we can only do the _strict_ still lives (i.e. those
               | which are connected https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Still_lif
               | e#Strict_still_lifes). We can't necessarily put down a
               | 10-cell still life and an 11-cell still life near to each
               | other.
        
               | dvgrn wrote:
               | Heh, not _necessarily_ , that's true, in the sense that
               | all the possible arrangements haven't been tested and
               | shown to be constructible.
               | 
               | On the other hand, pseudo-still-life and quasi-still-life
               | arrangements are much easier to construct on average than
               | strict still lifes with the same number of cells.
               | 
               | I think the consensus is that someone _could_ figure out
               | how to construct any given stable 21-bit configuration.
               | The non-strict cases are just a bit too numerous and not
               | interesting enough, so nobody has gone through and
               | formally checked them off the list.
        
               | dvgrn wrote:
               | If you want to see what these 21-bit still lifes look
               | like, their glider construction recipes are all stored
               | online, on Catagolue (no, that's not a misspelling):
               | 
               | https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23/synthesis-
               | costs/x...
        
         | biggiemac42 wrote:
         | This is a really good and not at all easy to answer question.
         | The most I can say is that folks earlier this year used some
         | SAT solver equivalent to find notable patterns that cannot be
         | constructed - including a still life and an oscillator
         | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Unsynthesizable_oscillator_1. This
         | doesn't have much bearing on the probability of
         | constructability for an arbitrary large pattern.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Yeah, I was wondering, with todays computing power, if it
           | were possible to run outrageously large random Life universes
           | and use some sort of software to look for "interesting
           | patterns" (whatever that means).
           | 
           | Or are these "discoveries" being done by hand?
        
             | OscarCunningham wrote:
             | A lot of discoveries have come from 'soup search' where you
             | start with a random 16 by 16 square and let it evolve.
             | We've run over 156 trillion soups
             | https://catagolue.hatsya.com/statistics. This tends not no
             | produce complicated machines, but rather small components
             | that can then be engineered into larger patterns.
        
       | iamgopal wrote:
       | What's most complex thing achieved in GOL ?
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | Probably either this or the 0E0P metacell
         | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/0E0P_metacell, a large pattern
         | which makes copies of itself in a way that mimics another
         | cellular automaton, or Life itself.
        
       | anoncow wrote:
       | As a lay Comp Sci person I am wondering what this translates
       | into? What implication does this have?
        
         | zorked wrote:
         | It's pretty cool.
        
         | chriswarbo wrote:
         | The principle is the same as von Neumann's "universal
         | constructor", so it doesn't really prove anything we didn't
         | know _in theory_.
         | 
         | However, von Neumann's design uses a cellular-automaton with
         | many more rules, and those were specifically chosen to help
         | define that constructor (Langton Loops are a more extreme
         | example of choosing rules to make construction easier). In
         | constrast, the rules for Game of Life (GoL) were chosen to be
         | simple and interesting, not fine-tuned for any particular
         | patterns (for an even simpler set of rules, see the Rule 110
         | cellular-automaton).
         | 
         | We know the GoL is Turing-complete, so it can _emulate_ any
         | computable system; including those other cellular-automata,
         | e.g. von Neumann 's universal constructor. Such emulations will
         | typically use a large GoL pattern to represent each emulated
         | cell (e.g. see "life in life"): if we emulate a universal
         | constructor, we can use it to assemble any pattern of those
         | _emulated cells_. We could also emulate GoL inside some other
         | cellular-automaton, and hence use a universal constructor to
         | assemble any pattern of _emulated GoL cells_. But the question
         | still remains: can we assemble any pattern of  "native" GoL
         | cells? That's what the constructors in the article are doing
         | (at least, for a broad class of patterns).
         | 
         | The rest is a matter of "code golf", trying to make the
         | patterns smaller and faster (and indeed feasible to run on a
         | real PC!)
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_universal_construc...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langton%27s_loops
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110
         | 
         | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Turing_machine
         | 
         | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Unit_cell
        
       | tiborsaas wrote:
       | Absolutely mind blowing result, looking at the video at the
       | bottom is so hard to comprehend there's no human interaction in
       | this besides setting up the 15 gliders.
       | 
       | At 1:57 it even looks like someone draws a line casually with a
       | mouse.
        
       | squaredot wrote:
       | This result is really beautiful! At the same time, it's like GoL
       | has been conquered, and in that it leaves me a little sad. But
       | just a little bit. Congratulations!
        
         | soulofmischief wrote:
         | This "conquering" is all just proof as to the fundamental
         | nature of the Game of Life. It's not hard to imagine a working
         | system of walking proteins and unzipping DNA structures in
         | light of these findings. It really is beautiful.
        
           | biggiemac42 wrote:
           | I think the portion that is fundamental is deeper than game
           | of life itself. Game of life is a rule set with sufficient
           | complexity to get this far, but it isn't the only one.
           | Anything with this class of behavior will support systems
           | including those resembling DNA, the question is at what scale
           | it emerges. If the scale is too big (arguably the scale for
           | the result in this post is too big), it's a less elegant kind
           | of emergence.
        
             | soulofmischief wrote:
             | Agreed. One aspect of CA which interests me is robustness,
             | the ability of a system to recover from error states.
             | 
             | What's been done with GoL is fascinating, but I think the
             | next emergent layer of fascination for me is universal
             | constructors which can handle a certain level of constant
             | distributed noise or interference. A lot of times people
             | just shrug and say, "well this pattern will always be
             | critical/vulnerable in these locations, and cannot be made
             | robust. But to me that opens up the door for entire classes
             | of patterns which measure, embed and repair state of
             | surrounding entities.
        
           | galaxyLogic wrote:
           | Very interesting. A biological cell is a 3-D self-replicating
           | pattern (or is it 2-D rather?). Does GoL give us some insight
           | into the nature of biological cells?
        
             | dvgrn wrote:
             | Definitely! It's hard to summarize that insight in any kind
             | of concise way, though ... The Game of Life universe seems
             | a bit too "fragile" to allow for the kind of emergent
             | complexity that real-world physics supports. We can build
             | self-constructing things like the
             | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/0E0P_metacell , but if anything
             | gets slightly out of place, the usual result is a truly
             | horrific catastrophic explosion.
             | 
             | Conway's Life design work is kind of like building robots
             | out of masses of subcritical uranium. Everything's fine
             | until two robots unexpectedly bump into each other... which
             | means you have to start out with everything very carefully
             | balanced, such that that never happens.
             | 
             | So I guess one fairly obvious insight is that real-world
             | physics supports more reliable and less explosive low-level
             | structures than Conway's Life does, and those low-level
             | structures can then safely be used as the basis for new
             | levels of organization -- atoms -> molecules -> DNA ->
             | bacteria -> eukaryotic cells -> multicellular organisms ->
             | colonies of organisms -> ecosystems.
             | 
             | It's not clear how those higher levels of organization
             | would work in Conway's Life. If they're possible, then they
             | seem to be far beyond our current ability to simulate them
             | -- though there's some recent research vaguely along these
             | lines, about self-replicators that might be able to exert
             | some control over the space around them:
             | 
             | https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5364
        
               | galaxyLogic wrote:
               | Fascinating
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | There are still plenty of open problems! Here are some of my
         | favourites:
         | 
         | * Is there an oscillator of every possible period? (We have
         | them all except 19 and 41.)
         | 
         | * If you start off the entire plane in a random starting state,
         | does its density tend to a limit as time goes to infinity?
         | 
         | * Is there a 'phoenix' oscillator, in which every live cell
         | dies every generation, of period greater than 2?
         | 
         | * Can every pattern be destroyed by bombarding it with gliders?
         | 
         | * Is there an indestructible pattern?
         | 
         | At the moment people are working on building a spaceship which
         | is only 1 cell tall in its starting state:
         | https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2040.
        
           | Strilanc wrote:
           | I'd be surprised if there was a computable density limit for
           | the random plane, just because the system is Turing complete
           | so the answer could easily end up being like Chaitin's
           | contant where it depends on halting problems. For example,
           | note that an infinite random plane will contain, with
           | probability 1, purely-by-chance prebuilt artificial
           | intelligences with goals like "maximize number of blinkers in
           | the plane". Though I guess it's also an open question if such
           | a system could even survive and spread, as opposed to just
           | getting eventually crushed by the surrounding noise.
        
             | OscarCunningham wrote:
             | Right, but I'm hoping it might be possible to prove that
             | the limit _exists_ (even if it 's an uncomputable number),
             | as opposed to some oscillating behaviour where the density
             | infinitely often goes up to 70% and then back down to 30%
             | for example.
        
             | isoprophlex wrote:
             | If it can be proven that there are no indestructible
             | patterns, your AI can clean up everything around it!
             | 
             | (... and encounter other AIs that act as hegemonising
             | swarms, eg. that populate the plane with copies of
             | themselves)
        
       | biggiemac42 wrote:
       | Hi there, I'm the author (of the blog post, not of the
       | achievement itself)! So glad this is spreading. Feel free to ask
       | here or on the post for more clarification if stuff is too
       | unclear
        
         | Grustaf wrote:
         | Almost everything was unclear to me, but then I'm not familiar
         | with the Game of Life lingo. Perhaps it would make sense to
         | write a version that the educated public can understand, even
         | without any Life background?
        
           | phkahler wrote:
           | Funny. I first saw life over 40 years ago. I saw some crazy
           | objects creates in my college days. I've seen occasional
           | articles about breakthroughs over the years. Understanding
           | gliders and spaceships has been my foundation to grok
           | everything since. Being able to think in the abstract was a
           | key to understanding this article for me, but without a few
           | concrete foundational concepts... I stopped a few times
           | reading it to laugh at how absurdly abstract and full of
           | jargon it is. Completely meaningless techno-babble to the
           | uninitiated. How much of my own specialization sounds so
           | opaque to outsiders? Maybe all of it ;-)
        
           | biggiemac42 wrote:
           | I would say "the educated public" is already the target
           | audience for my blog. Game of life topics are notoriously
           | hard to disentangle from their jargon, and I went to some
           | effort here but needed to balance that against the goal to
           | remain accurate.
           | 
           | My hope is that by reading only the amount of background on
           | the blog already in the Waterbear post (referenced
           | immediately in the introduction), you have all you need to
           | grok the post. But that's certainly an optimistic hope, and
           | maybe unfounded.
        
         | a_t48 wrote:
         | No questions, just "zig" saying hi :) Nice article.
        
         | Traubenfuchs wrote:
         | How much of advanced GoL is intuition and genius you were born
         | with and how much is math/logic anyone can learn with enough
         | time?
        
           | kryptiskt wrote:
           | I can recommend the recent book "Conway's Game of Life:
           | Mathematics and Construction" (downloadable free at
           | https://conwaylife.com/book/), it starts gently and builds up
           | to these kind of constructions (minus what has been
           | discovered in the last year or so).
        
           | biggiemac42 wrote:
           | Definitely worth trying to learn! As with most topics, it
           | starts out seeming hard to grasp, and then you start naming
           | things and recognizing them. What looks like jargon to an
           | outsider is just a compressed way of communicating. The
           | people in the community are smart and tend to compress their
           | ideas really far which makes the jargon even more extreme.
           | 
           | Advanced gol is just getting past that first hurdle of
           | understanding the densely compressed info behind the jargon.
           | And it doesn't ever need to be done for all of the concepts.
           | You can be versed in just one. I started out in a super
           | specialized corner in self constructing spaceships. That said
           | I'm a bit of a whiz in other areas so I can't be used as
           | evidence that it works for everyone..
        
             | isoprophlex wrote:
             | I just want to say that I love everything the GoL community
             | has built and discovered over the years. Big crazy things
             | like this always fill my heart with awe and wonder.
             | 
             | Even though in my life, I can't make the time for doing
             | something on the grandiose scale required, I can live
             | vicariously through reading about your sheer dedication and
             | intellectual effort expended.
        
             | dvgrn wrote:
             | I think the biggest prerequisite for getting good at
             | "advanced GoL" is just an unreasonable amount of patience.
             | 
             | Probably I'm a good case in point. I'm definitely not a
             | particularly clever mathematician, but it seems like it's
             | possible to understand any new Life technology just by
             | tinkering with the pieces for long enough.
             | 
             | If anyone wants to follow along with that kind of learning
             | process, just start working through the Life textbook that
             | kryptiskt mentioned. (Full disclosure, I'm one of the
             | authors.)
        
             | kimburgess wrote:
             | To be fair, that's the definition of jargon. Using domain
             | specific language is something that's universal - it's a
             | compression technique you see any domain where there's a
             | need to communicate dense information. Abstraction affords
             | precision, not ambiguity.
        
         | Zenst wrote:
         | Do you see this as a form of geometric compression in the
         | future?
        
           | dvgrn wrote:
           | It's a bit hard to see how this RCT trick could be useful for
           | reducing anything besides the number of gliders.
           | 
           | RCT is basically one very unreasonable end of a wide
           | spectrum: you can use a very small number of gliders to build
           | something, as long as you're content to have the construction
           | take a ridiculously long time. Conversely, you can build that
           | same thing in a lot less time, but it will take a lot more
           | gliders.
        
             | geysersam wrote:
             | Also, even if the maximum number of gliders is fixed (15),
             | that does not imply any limit on the amount of information
             | needed to store their positions.
             | 
             | The glider positions might very well require more storage
             | than the desired pattern itself.
        
               | dvgrn wrote:
               | That's definitely completely true. We can specify the
               | relative positions of the initial gliders at each of the
               | three corners of the RCT pattern in just a few dozen
               | bytes.
               | 
               | But the number that says how far apart those corners are
               | from each other has very roughly half a million digits.
               | The exact number depends on exactly what pattern is being
               | encoded by the RCT pattern -- I think the example
               | construction of Alan Hensel's decimal counter pattern
               | needs somewhere around a 450,000-digit number.
               | 
               | There are some optimizations underway to decrease that
               | number by a few percentage points, but it's always going
               | to be a very big number!
        
       | eurasiantiger wrote:
       | The 15 is strangely familiar.
       | 
       | Hypothesis: if the interaction of any pair of oscillators can
       | theoretically be represented by a single oscillator, this could
       | also be possible with 4 and 6 (larger) gliders, simply because (4
       | over 2) = 6, (6 over 2) = 15.
       | 
       | The above may only hold in a continuous-valued GoL, or it may not
       | hold at all.
        
         | anderskaseorg wrote:
         | There's no "larger glider". The name "glider" refers to a
         | single specific pattern of five cells.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_(Conway%27s_Life)
        
           | biggiemac42 wrote:
           | LMAO I found outdated info on that wikipedia page, in the
           | best way.
           | 
           | "Some patterns require a very large number (sometimes
           | hundreds) of glider collisions"
        
             | dvgrn wrote:
             | Ha -- when was that written?... Let's see, the original
             | form of the statement showed up in 2012: "Some patterns
             | require a very large number (scores, even hundreds) of
             | glider collisions..."
             | 
             | At that time Andrew Wade had already created the self-
             | constructing Gemini spaceship, which needed 173449 gliders
             | to build ( https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Glider_synthesis#Spa
             | ceship_synth... ). The recipe could have been reworked to
             | be a little cheaper, but nobody bothered at the time -- and
             | now it can be done in fifteen gliders instead.
             | 
             | If you want to see the construction happening, I'd
             | definitely recommend the old Gemini recipe over an RCT-
             | based one, though! RCT cuts down the cost in gliders to a
             | minimum, but at a terrible cost in the time you have to
             | wait around to see the completed object.
        
           | eurasiantiger wrote:
           | True. I was thinking about spaceships and other oscillating
           | movers.
        
             | dvgrn wrote:
             | It's not impossible that we could come up with a way of
             | crashing less than 15 moving objects together to get an
             | alternate RCT pattern.
             | 
             | Gliders are generally considered to be the "lowest common
             | denominator", though, so adding complexity by allowing more
             | types of spaceships isn't usually seen as an improvement.
             | 
             | ... It also becomes possible to cheat: I suspect we could
             | put together something like an "RCT8" if we allowed
             | Corderships as well as gliders in the list of allowed
             | moving objects that we start with. (2-engine Corderships'
             | "engines" are switch engines, and we have to build four
             | switch engines to get the RCT reaction started. Could
             | probably just shoot down the extra switch engine with one
             | glider, and go from there.)
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | To be honest, GoL isn't quite as interesting as
               | continuous-valued CAs -- the latter break into quantum
               | field territory.
        
       | vanderZwan wrote:
       | Whenever I read one of these deep dives into GoL achievements,
       | and let me preface this by saying I mean this as a compliment, I
       | feel like I'm reading the extended universe lore on a wiki page
       | for a giant fantasy franchise. It's maths but feels so much more
       | narratively _rich_ than most other mathematics somehow, and the
       | community around it has such a unique subculture vibe to it too.
        
         | Silverback_VII wrote:
         | in my opinion Jeffery Ventrella's clusters are a more promising
         | avenue than Conways GoL. The rules are in comparison very
         | interesting as well: No creation out of nothing, only particles
         | that attract or repel each other.
         | 
         | The pattern it generates are pretty amazing as you can see
         | here: https://youtu.be/0Kx4Y9TVMGg
        
           | robertsdionne wrote:
           | Also "Lenia": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenia
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT49wpyux-k
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | This is the legacy of Conway (who invented Life) and Gardner
         | (who popularised it).
        
         | VikingCoder wrote:
         | Have you read "Permutation City"? I'm definitely reminded of it
         | every time.
        
           | jiggawatts wrote:
           | There is a pattern of 15 gliders that encodes a simulation of
           | a universe where your mind is immortal and living in an
           | endless paradise.
        
       | Ftuuky wrote:
       | How do I dive into this world? Any resources for a complete noob?
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | Not necessarily in this order:
         | 
         | * Download Golly https://golly.sourceforge.net/ and play around
         | drawing random patterns. Have a look at the example patterns.
         | 
         | * Have a look around on the LifeWiki
         | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Main_Page. Click anything that
         | looks interesting.
         | 
         | * Read the free online book https://conwaylife.com/book/
         | 
         | * Make an account on the forums https://conwaylife.com/forums/,
         | or just lurk and see what people are talking about.
         | 
         | * Hang out on the Discord https://discord.gg/uA6uaGv3
        
       | kleer001 wrote:
       | Seeing behind the curtain on this amazing work does nothing but
       | make me think that the universe we're in has to be some kind of
       | higher level cellular automata, somehow.
        
       | pfortuny wrote:
       | This is awesome. This result would fit perfectly well in
       | Wolfram's NKS. The next question is... is this the minimum?
        
         | rrobukef wrote:
         | Can it construct itself as some giant spaceship / oscillator?
        
           | pfortuny wrote:
           | Well, no idea.
        
           | biggiemac42 wrote:
           | It can! A seed constellation for the initial gliders would be
           | possible using the extra debris from the original collision.
           | Without using that debris, there might be a problem reaching
           | far enough without adding extra bits that each double the
           | amount of reaching to get to the right starting point. So I
           | think would be a specialized recipe for a couple reasons.
        
         | dvgrn wrote:
         | 15 is probably not the minimum. There are some ideas floating
         | around for getting down to 14, and some wilder ideas that might
         | get to 13 or 12.
         | 
         | Below that we'd need some significantly different mechanism
         | that nobody has thought of yet. It doesn't seem likely that
         | anyone will be able to _prove_ that universal construction is
         | impossible with a single-digit number of gliders -- but if a
         | solution exists it might take an omniscient being to find it.
         | 
         | ... Or maybe some clever hacker will figure it out tomorrow!
         | That 's what happened to get us to the current minimum. We were
         | stuck at a minimum of 32 for quite a while, until Daniel Vargas
         | (MathAndCode) suddenly showed up with a new idea.
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | We've checked every 3 glider collision. So our bounds on 'God's
         | Number' are 4 <= N < 16.
        
       | Rodeoclash wrote:
       | Amazing work!
        
       | Zenst wrote:
       | Interesting when you think about DNA and how that shapes things.
       | 
       | Equally, compression, is this an avenue worth exploring and a
       | whole new way of doing things awaiting to be tapped?
        
         | dvgrn wrote:
         | Heh, oddly enough, the RCT can probably be better thought of as
         | a way of explosively _decompressing_ a glider construction
         | recipe. There are lots and lots of reasonable-sized recipes for
         | constructing different patterns. When you apply the RCT trick
         | to any of them, the cost in gliders always shrinks to 15, but
         | the pattern's bounding box always expands to something
         | gargantuan.
         | 
         | The Life pattern that most evokes DNA and self-replication is
         | another megapattern from several years ago, the 0E0P metacell,
         | which even has a visible "nucleus" for its "DNA":
         | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/0E0P_metacell
        
       | L_226 wrote:
       | Neat, reminds me of the 22 alpha amino acids that comprise our
       | RNA/DNA.
        
       | sagebird wrote:
       | Can automated theorem proving software be coaxed into finding
       | recipes for GOL constructions?
       | 
       | I would find it interesting trying to formalize notions that we
       | easily perceive into computer-understood definitions.
       | 
       | May end up with strange formalizations to make things as
       | orthogonal as possible: IE a beehive is a glider speed zero.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | SAT has been used to find many things in GoL. IIRC the first
         | "grandfatherless" pattern was found with one.
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | I have a program called LLS that uses SAT solvers to find
         | patterns with specified properties.
         | https://conwaylife.com/wiki/Logic_Life_Search But it only works
         | cell-by-cell, so it can't make big patterns like this.
        
       | tromp wrote:
       | This is an incredible achievement. The most impressive piece of
       | GoL engineering I've ever seen!
       | 
       | Clearly, number of gliders is no longer a good measure of
       | complexity of constructions. Perhaps one should fix a
       | straightforward way to encode a set of gliders by position (e.g.
       | using [1]) and orientation and take the minimum number of bits of
       | such a description.
       | 
       | Just one question:
       | 
       | > 1274729 - build a DBCA and pass control to it
       | 
       | > 192584 - build a new constructor that reads stored data instead
       | of live data
       | 
       | > The final 200093 bits get stored in the Binary Storage and
       | Retrieval device, these same 200093 bits are counted below:
       | 
       | How come this adds up to 1667406, which is 1615 more than the
       | claimed total of 1665791 bits?
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_coding
        
         | biggiemac42 wrote:
         | Ooh, I appreciate the diligence! The numbers here came from
         | manually fiddling with more granular output from Pavgran's
         | special purpose "profiler" script. One of those steps, where
         | the DBCA assumes control of the bit stream, takes 1615 gliders.
         | I would bet I made a mistake and added it twice, probably to
         | both the DBCA building and the task of the DBCA itself. It
         | belongs in only one of them!
         | 
         | I can verify this later.
        
       | ivoras wrote:
       | Interestingly enough, the concept of placing gliders at a
       | distance away seems to touch on the relativity of space and time.
       | Here, with space, we are also encoding the time at which a
       | certain pattern (a glider) appears where it's needed. In a rigid
       | system like the GoL, we can't trade space with time easily, since
       | everything happens at a constant speed, but it makes one
       | wonder...
        
         | bewresu wrote:
         | ...if there's a GoL version where time varies somehow1 with
         | something2
         | 
         | 1 directly?
         | 
         | 2 amount of activity? mass?
        
           | dvgrn wrote:
           | There have been a lot of GoL variants over the years, but I
           | don't remember running into any attempts to vary the speed of
           | evolution in different locations on the same grid.
           | 
           | The idea that all neighbors move to the next tick
           | simultaneously is a fundamental assumption in cellular
           | automata in general. If you try changing that, the
           | optimizations that allow us to simulate CAs at any kind of
           | reasonable speed ... all stop working, pretty much. It's kind
           | of painful even to think about.
           | 
           | Which means there are probably very interesting rules out
           | there somewhere, where CAs run faster/slower depending on
           | pattern density -- it's just going to be very tricky to
           | explore that particular search space.
        
             | westurner wrote:
             | The "superstep" that we practically impose upon simulations
             | of entropy and emergence is out of accord with our modern
             | understanding of non-regularly-quantizable spacetime. The
             | debuggable Von Neumann instruction pipeline precludes "in-
             | RAM computing" which conceivably does converge if
             | consensus-level error correction is necessary.
        
               | OscarCunningham wrote:
               | The term 'superstep' reminds me of the HashLife algorithm
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashlife for computing the
               | Game of Life. It computes multiple generations at the
               | same time, and runs at different speeds in different
               | parts of the universe, but only with the purpose of
               | computing CGoL faster, not to introduce any relativity.
        
             | hansworst wrote:
             | Well, there is SmoothLife (e.g. https://www.arxiv-
             | vanity.com/papers/1111.1567/#S4) where the time step is
             | also made continuous. I suppose you could extend this so
             | that this isn't some uniform value across the entire space,
             | but instead a value that is constantly recomputed based on
             | neighbourhood density.
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | How does it "touch on relativity of space and time"?
        
           | dvgrn wrote:
           | I think that was just saying "more space between initial
           | gliders implies a longer time needed to complete
           | construction". There's no Einsteinian relativity to be found
           | here.
           | 
           | (A Doppler effect does show up in Conway's Life sometimes,
           | but that's about as far as we get with analogies to the
           | physical universe...!)
        
             | westurner wrote:
             | How nonlocal are the entanglements in Conway's game of
             | cellular automata, if they're entanglements with symmetry;
             | conservation but emergence? TIL about the effect of two
             | Hadamard gates upon a zero.
             | 
             | Quantum discord:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_discord :
             | 
             | > _In quantum information theory, quantum discord is a
             | measure of nonclassical correlations between two subsystems
             | of a quantum system. It includes correlations that are due
             | to quantum physical effects but do not necessarily involve
             | quantum entanglement._
             | 
             | From "Convolution Is Fancy Multiplication"
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25194658 :
             | 
             | > _FWIW, (bounded) Conway 's Game of Life can be
             | efficiently implemented as a convolution of the board
             | state: https://gist.github.com/mikelane/89c580b7764f04cf73b
             | 32bf4e94... _
             | 
             | Conway's Game is a 2D convolution; without complex phase or
             | constructive superposition.
             | 
             | Convolution theorem:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolution_theorem :
             | 
             | > _In mathematics, the convolution theorem states that
             | under suitable conditions the Fourier transform of a
             | convolution of two functions (or signals) is the pointwise
             | product of their Fourier transforms. More generally,
             | convolution in one domain (e.g., time domain) equals point-
             | wise multiplication in the other domain (e.g., frequency
             | domain). Other versions of the convolution theorem are
             | applicable to various Fourier-related transforms._
             | 
             | From _Quantum_ Fourier transform:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Fourier_transform :
             | 
             | > _The quantum Fourier transform can be performed
             | efficiently on a quantum computer with a decomposition into
             | the product of simpler unitary matrices. The discrete
             | Fourier transform on 2^{n} amplitudes can be implemented as
             | a quantum circuit consisting of only O(n^2) Hadamard gates
             | and controlled phase shift gates, where n is the number of
             | qubits.[2] This can be compared with the classical discrete
             | Fourier transform, which takes O(n*(2^n)) gates (where n is
             | the number of bits), which is exponentially more than
             | O(n^2)._
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mannykannot wrote:
         | Far from being relativistic, it is a miniature simulated
         | universe with a rigid flat geometry and a universal clock. it
         | is interesting precisely because it is very simple and yet
         | permits remarkably complex events.
        
       | abetusk wrote:
       | The basic idea is to use the distance of the gliders to encode
       | information, so when they hit each other allows for an embedding
       | of a Turing machine.
       | 
       | I'm no expert here but some basic ideas are that some small
       | number of gliders (two?) can hit each other and produce a "glider
       | gun", allowing for just a few gliders to "upgrade" to producing a
       | steady stream of gliders. There's a "Reverse Caber Tosser" (RCT)
       | structure which has a stationary element that "tosses" a glider
       | back and forth with a structure moving away (or towards?) it,
       | emitting another glider in another direction after each toss,
       | allowing for logarithmic glider/population growth. Another key
       | idea looks to be the "glider producing switch engine" (GPSE)
       | which incorporates the ideas of the RCT with a delay and some
       | other logic?
       | 
       | The distances involved are astronomical because they're encoding
       | everything in the distance but they still manage to make it
       | Turing machine equivalent with only 15 gliders.
       | 
       | Anyway, I'm floored at the ingenuity of the GoL community. It's
       | as close to programming with butterflies as I've ever seen [0].
       | 
       | [0] https://xkcd.com/378/
        
         | biggiemac42 wrote:
         | To clean up the mistakes in your summary:
         | 
         | 4 gliders hit each other to make a stream of gliders. This
         | isn't a gun, because a gun costs more. instead it's a GPSE,
         | which looks like a gun from the barrel end, but has a limit. As
         | it approaches that limit, the RCT mechanism lets another three
         | GPSEs generate an arbitrary list of bits, controlled by the
         | precise location of the first (as a binary number). The final
         | count 15 comes from the naive 4x4 minus one from being able to
         | piggyback one of the constructions off a neighbor to save a
         | single glider.
         | 
         | From bits to an embedded turing machine is gol magic that the
         | blog post treats better than my comment could.
        
         | robertsdionne wrote:
         | It's like how a Turing machine tape can be represented by two
         | natural numbers (or even a single natural number via
         | interleaving).
        
           | dvgrn wrote:
           | The reference that comes to mind for me is something out of
           | one of Martin Gardner's _Aha! Insight_ books from decades ago
           | -- the idea of encoding something like the Encyclopedia
           | Britannica into one big long bitstring, then converting it
           | into a fraction... and putting one single very careful mark
           | on a stick to represent that fraction.
           | 
           | The difference is that where the real world doesn't allow for
           | storing anywhere near that level of precision in a mark on a
           | stick, the Conway's Life universe is considered to be
           | unbounded, so there's as much room as we need to implement
           | this RCT trick.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | I might have my books mixed up but I believe this idea was a
         | subplot in one of David Brin's early books, The Practice
         | Effect. First Edition: 1984.
        
           | hakuseki wrote:
           | Might it have been Glory Season?
        
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