[HN Gopher] For many widows, the hardest part is mealtime (2019)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       For many widows, the hardest part is mealtime (2019)
        
       Author : wallflower
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2022-11-29 15:47 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | sokoloff wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/7uA1X
        
       | munificent wrote:
       | Every time things like this come up, people rightly mention
       | multigenerational households.
       | 
       | But then someone else brings up the lack of privacy and
       | imposition of having multiple generations under one roof.
       | 
       | What I never heard people talk about, though is _changing our
       | architectural practices to support multigenerational households_.
       | There are  "mother-in-law suites" you see sometimes (though these
       | days they seem to be mostly for renters). But I think there is a
       | huge opportunity to innovate in how we design homes to balance
       | the need for community with larger families against the need for
       | privacy and solitude.
        
         | screye wrote:
         | > changing our architectural practices to support
         | multigenerational households
         | 
         | This is true about so many things. Infrastructure and
         | architecture around us lead to a majority of emergent
         | properties in the way society interacts.
         | 
         | In the 3rd world, it is fairly common to purchase an apartment
         | for your parents in the same neighborhood as where you settle
         | in. The free daycare itself makes up for the mortgage and the
         | old people sitting by benches on evenings serve as communal
         | protection while the kids play seemingly unsupervised.
        
           | 1270018080 wrote:
           | At this point it's a topic beaten to death, and it's edgy to
           | say, but I really believe the suburb/highway model 95% of
           | America is stuck with is the root of all evil. Whether people
           | voluntarily seek it out or they're trapped in it. Every bad
           | thing I can think of seems to stem from it in one way or
           | another. Physical, mental, financial, environmental, and
           | political health all considered.
        
             | screye wrote:
             | > topic beaten to death, and it's edgy to say
             | 
             | It's sad that that when a big enough part of a population
             | reaches the obvious conclusion, it is considered edgy
             | because the magnitude of the damage that was caused is so
             | large, and is finally recognized as such.
             | 
             | > suburb/highway model 95% of America is stuck with is the
             | root of all evil
             | 
             | There are very few mono-causal absolutes that I actually
             | agree with and this is one of them.
        
             | dsfyu404ed wrote:
             | >but I really believe the suburb/highway model 95% of
             | America is stuck with is the root of all evil.
             | 
             | I think you're mistaking "occasionally challenged" for
             | edgy. People who believe what you believe are dominant on
             | HN. You're basically just bemoaning that you're not so
             | dominant that you never see criticism.
        
               | frankus wrote:
               | One common objection I hear is that there's clearly a
               | revealed preference for that kind of housing in North
               | America, because it's still relatively in-demand.
               | 
               | But by that standard there's also a revealed preference
               | for airline food on airliners.
        
               | haroldp wrote:
               | Excellent analogy. And pretty much no one who advocates
               | for _allowing_ more flexible housing wants to _forbid_
               | suburban single family detached homes. Buy that, if that
               | 's what you want. Just stop limiting everyone else to
               | that.
        
         | imchillyb wrote:
         | > ...opportunity to innovate in how we design homes...
         | @munificent
         | 
         | This sounds like a statement made by someone that's never gone
         | through the US process of purchasing a new home.
         | 
         | New homes have floorplans that are not designed to be 'consumer
         | usable.' The floorplans and layout of the development are
         | designed to maximize profit. That means squeezing tiny spaces
         | into tiny plots in order to make several million more dollars
         | per development, sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars.
         | 
         | These generic plans are drawn up by the lowest-cost bidder, and
         | then sold to buyers who can barely afford those.
         | 
         | The entire market is complicit in this, and it is by design.
         | 
         | Want a multi-generational house? It won't be in a development,
         | and it will cost more than two houses that are in a
         | development.
         | 
         | Good luck with that...
        
           | dsfyu404ed wrote:
           | If these crap floorplans didn't sell people wouldn't build
           | them. If they sold worse there'd be alternatives.
           | 
           | I don't see why people want them but clearly they do.
        
             | frankus wrote:
             | It could be a classic information asymmetry (people don't
             | know what they want until they've lived with it, or even
             | know that something better is possible).
             | 
             | The same process that has turned most store-bought
             | strawberries into freakishly-large flavorless blobs.
        
             | idontpost wrote:
        
             | neutronicus wrote:
             | People generally pick a location, set some criteria (must
             | have X bedrooms, Y bathrooms, Z square footage, parking),
             | see the small integer number of houses in the market in
             | that location satisfying those criteria in-budget, and go
             | with the one whose maintenance seems least daunting.
             | 
             | There aren't even really enough options to be picky about
             | floor-plan most of the time, especially if the house with
             | the wonderful floor-plan hasn't had the roof replaced for
             | 15 years.
        
           | yardie wrote:
           | You can have a custom home built. In general they are 10-20%
           | more expensive. Because any savings in economies of scale a
           | developer might see get converted to profit, not savings.
           | Architects are a thing and do take on SFH projects when
           | asked.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | I wish we'd at least go back to putting _walls_ in houses.
         | These open floorplans that look so nice in real-estate photos
         | and have that  "wow" factor when you walk through the front
         | door _suck_ to live in, but it 's most of what gets built these
         | days. Give me rooms with doors, damnit.
        
           | paulryanrogers wrote:
           | We had a small bungalow with so many doors. Literally every
           | room except the common room had them. I removed a few, but
           | once kids arrived it was clear why it was built that way.
        
           | dntrkv wrote:
           | They don't suck to live in. I would much rather live in an
           | open floor plan. Maybe your needs are different and you need
           | privacy within the common areas of your house, but not
           | everyone has those same needs.
        
             | julianlam wrote:
             | It's a give and take.
             | 
             | We have an open floor plan in our main living area. It's a
             | "give" in that I am able to watch my children playing in
             | the common area from the kitchen. It's a "take" in that if
             | I am cooking with the exhaust fan on, there's no way you
             | can hear the TV.
             | 
             | It's also a take in the sense that when people come over,
             | they see the mess in the kitchen if there is one. Sometimes
             | a door is nice that way.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | They're fine when you've got a huge amount of square
             | footage to spare, for the number of people in the house. A
             | common time to realize how much nicer some walls and doors
             | would be is after having kids. Walls and doors let you have
             | a larger number of occupants living in a given space
             | without sacrificing comfort.
             | 
             | Our house has an open kitchen + living room + entryway +
             | stairway, and that's not so bad--because we also have a
             | huge basement, four bedrooms for 2 adults + 3 kids, two
             | extra rooms that are walled off with doors (we had to add
             | the doors, though...), et c. So that open space is OK,
             | because we have _way_ more house than we 'd need to be
             | similarly-comfortable if it were better laid out, including
             | having more walls and doors.
        
         | _448 wrote:
         | In India, some families do follow this type of setup. My
         | neighbor was asking me if I wanted to sell my apartment because
         | he wanted to combine his apartment with mine so that his
         | parents could stay with him. In my neighborhood there are few
         | families, who could afford, have bought 2-3 apartments and
         | combined them so that three generations can stay under one
         | roof.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | "Granny flats", they're called here, but they fell out of
         | fashion because:
         | 
         | (a) New houses tend to be built in housing estates as either
         | terraces or semi-detached without the land to add on a granny
         | flat like in a lot of the pre-1950s houses that had them added
         | on later.
         | 
         | (b) A lot of them were rather shoddily built.
         | 
         | (c) The end of single-income households for most of the
         | populace means that even if someone was living in a granny
         | flat, the younger generation would not be around to offer
         | company/assistance because both are working.
        
           | dntrkv wrote:
           | The main reason is that zoning makes it impossible to build
           | them in most places. That has recently changed in CA and the
           | amount of permits submitted for ADUs has increased by
           | multiple magnitudes in the last 5 years (in certain locales,
           | LA being one).
        
             | frankus wrote:
             | And even when it's legal, it's often not "by right". So you
             | end up with restrictions against e.g. renting out both the
             | main house and the ADU.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Arrath wrote:
           | > (b) A lot of them were rather shoddily built.
           | 
           | Yeah, I don't think my mother-in-law suite has a true right
           | angle in it anywhere other than my IKEA bookshelf :V
           | 
           | Not terribly surprising it was a DIY build by my landlord's
           | father back in the 60s.
        
           | wonder_er wrote:
           | They didn't _quite_ "fall out of fashion" - they were made
           | illegal by a certain group of people, in order to reduce the
           | relative power/independence of other groups of people.
        
         | zrail wrote:
         | > changing our architectural practices to support
         | multigenerational households
         | 
         | Yes this. Our house has a mother in law suite. While we have
         | tiny kids it's my office and my partner's art studio but it
         | converts nicely into a guest suite. When my kids are grown I
         | expect at least one of them will want to move to the MIL suite
         | on a semi-permanent basis.
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | This is just another negative to not diversifying your happiness
       | sources and friend circles.
       | 
       | When literally the only shared activity you engage in is eating
       | at the same table with few other people, and that activity is
       | also the only thing you do that brings pleasure, you're
       | completely destroyed when it's disrupted.
       | 
       | It's such a lazy, low-effort existence. Invest more effort and
       | time in _doing_ _fun_ _stuff_ , go camping, hiking, cycling,
       | sailing, running, climbing... find good active friends who do
       | diverse fun things where eating is an inconvenience because
       | there's so much better things to do and you're no longer addicted
       | to shoving comforting things in your mouth, go take some effing
       | risks.
       | 
       | Don't be surprised when you don't bother and what pittances of
       | pleasure sources you had vanish and you're up shit's creek
       | without a paddle, and probably don't even have your health
       | because you've been pleasure eating for decades while likely
       | living an otherwise sedentary boring ass life.
        
       | euroderf wrote:
       | When a person is enveloped in grief, cooking a meal is the most
       | impossible thing to do. The reasons are many, but it is so.
       | 
       | If someone you know has just lost their loved one, in those days
       | soon after, visit them, and take containers with some meals you
       | have prepared. Like, heat'em and eat'em.
       | 
       | Even if you only go to check in and hug and drop them off.
       | 
       | It will relieve that person of a burden.
        
         | trynewideas wrote:
         | I'm always going to caveat this with a request to get
         | permission before bringing food. Aside from all the usual
         | dietary concerns, it can backfire the same ways as other well-
         | meaning acts - flowers that die in front of you, cards or gifts
         | that make the worst memories persist.
         | 
         | If multiple people do this without coordination, or I'm not
         | hungry or simply don't like it, I felt guilty throwing it out.
         | Even if I did eat it, if I ate it alone I associated that food
         | with the grief and absence in that moment, which compounded the
         | grief and made me resent the food, which festered guilt anyway.
         | 
         | What I wanted so, so, so much more than the food was the
         | company. I'd take a frozen pizza or a cold drive-thru burger
         | and an evening of talking in those first weeks and months over
         | a delicious homecooked meal that was dropped off with a brief
         | visit and left alone with me, every single time.
         | 
         | Staying as company felt inclusive and distracting in ways that
         | helped. Dropping it off felt like I was a burden, a
         | responsibility getting checked off of a list. In retrospect I
         | know better, but in the moment it was a dangerous feeling.
         | 
         | If that's all you can do, it's more than nothing, and it can be
         | appreciated. But just ask first, communicate that, if you can
         | then offer to do more when you're able to.
        
         | tenacious_tuna wrote:
         | A counterblanace to this:
         | 
         | My stepfather is dying of melanoma. My mom says the last thing
         | she wants is people bringing food by--largely because she just
         | doesn't have the energy left to deal with socializing, in any
         | capacity, even the polite "Oh, thanks" of receiving the food,
         | or much worse the inevitable "So how's he doing? How are you?"
         | 
         | I considered asking her if something like leaving a fridge
         | accessible for people to stash things in without contact would
         | help, but I felt a bit like I was missing the point: I think so
         | often in situations like this we, those outside of the
         | emotional experience, focus on ways we can help because it
         | makes us feel better. Consistently what's been helpful for her,
         | and for me, in talking with others isn't so much having
         | suggestions or problem-solving, but just sharing the absolutely
         | crushing absurdity of the experience of watching another human
         | slowly die, and have the other person say "I don't even know
         | what to say, that just sounds exhausting/insane/stressful."
         | 
         | Culturally we seem to focus so much on accelerating these
         | seasons of grief because we don't want people to remain in
         | pain, but some of it's necessary. There's a balance of being
         | able to sit in the loss, and let it be real, that's a necessary
         | part of the grieving process.
         | 
         | I might be missing your point a bit: of course having access to
         | healthy food is useful when you're incapable of doing it
         | yourself. I think I just personally wish for more awareness
         | that most "outsiders'" immediate reaction when exposed to
         | emotional pain of this magnitude is to find A Thing To Do to
         | alleviate them of the emotional pressure they feel, regardless
         | of the energy it requires from the sufferer to engage with
         | that.
        
       | treeman79 wrote:
       | My dad passed away recently. My mom was constantly trying to cook
       | for me. She did all the cooking for my dad.
       | 
       | Was weird in that he wanted food cooked the same exact way as she
       | had done for the last 48 years, no variation tolerated.
       | 
       | Trouble being that she was is a terrible cook and he liked his
       | food burnt to hell and loaded with sugar and massive quantities
       | of taco seasoning.
       | 
       | Pretty sure Taco Bell is healthier.
       | 
       | So I ended up doing all the cooking.
       | 
       | She seemed to make up for lack of cooking time by showing me
       | things of his I might want for hours on end for multiple weeks.
       | 
       | Me and siblings now have tons of boxes of stuff we don't want.
       | But it calmed her down for us to take it.
       | 
       | I didn't realize how important making the meals was to her. Not
       | that she cares about the food. She knew it was terrible. She was
       | excited to start eating the way she wants to.
       | 
       | But 40+ years of habit is really hard to break.
       | 
       | Side tip. We leaned hard way that social security survivor
       | benefits and various pensions will stop immediately and take
       | multiple months to switch to widow benefits. We got her covered.
       | But was a nasty surprise.
        
       | Buttons840 wrote:
       | Several months ago I learned I have celiac disease (the "no
       | gluten" autoimmune disease) and I also have extremely high LDL
       | cholesterol (~200 LDL-C), so I've removed all gluten and almost
       | all saturated fat from my diet. At this point I don't believe I
       | can eat out anymore, and yeah, it sucks. So many old friendships
       | were maintained by a lunch meeting every 6 months. Eating is just
       | the default social activity everyone participates in. I don't
       | know a replacement for that.
       | 
       | The standard American diet lives up to its acronym. It's sad that
       | a single food allergy and a goal to follow dietary guidelines
       | eliminates almost all fast food and resturaunt food. Hell, at
       | this point I believe anyone simply wanting to follow saturated
       | fat guidelines is excluded from eating out.
       | 
       | Nobody has to die in order for you to find yourself eating alone
       | every meal.
        
         | haroldp wrote:
         | Find restaurants that are celiac-safe. You may find it safer to
         | pick cuisines that naturally don't include wheat, than to get
         | the gluten-free option at a regular gluten-y restaurant.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | If your friends know of your condition, perhaps during the
         | warmer months instead of meeting at a restaurant you can meet
         | at a park nearby - they can grab some takeout and you can bring
         | something that meets your needs.
         | 
         | It's relatively easy to find "gluten free" these days (though
         | that varies on how actually gluten free it is) but the
         | saturated fats are going to be harder to miss.
        
         | jraby3 wrote:
         | I somehow started inviting friends and meetings for walks
         | instead of meals.
         | 
         | It started because I was tired of sitting all day. And because
         | I was connected to a VC and had meetings where I could dictate
         | the terms, I'd let people know that I didn't want to sit and
         | see a PowerPoint. I wanted to walk along the beach (near my
         | office) and walk.
         | 
         | Now I also have a few friends I do this with. Friends I don't
         | see often. I find walking to be better for conversation,
         | health, and just more fun.
         | 
         | Not sure if this is possible. I live and work by the beach and
         | near a lot of parks. But I strongly recommend at least offering
         | it. There must be other people sick of sitting all the time.
        
         | equalsione wrote:
         | I've had similar experience. I found that I went through a kind
         | of mourning for my old life for a while. It's a huge
         | adjustment.
         | 
         | It also eats up a huge amount of time - reading labels for
         | hidden ingredients, trying to come up with a meal that you can
         | make that doesn't include the bad things etc. It became very
         | isolating. Eventually I decided I had to figure out a middle
         | ground.
         | 
         | I will meet people for "lunch" and just have coffee, or
         | whatever I can tolerate from the menu. I have people over more
         | often because I know what I cook won't make me sick. I went
         | back to eating out - it takes a while to figure out/trust
         | restaurants you can eat at. There will be mistakes along the
         | way.
         | 
         | Good luck - I hope it gets easier for you.
        
         | wobbly_bush wrote:
         | Does keto diet work for you? Based on your description I guess
         | it would. Some restaurants offer some dishes which work for
         | keto diet, but its still not widespread.
        
           | drewzero1 wrote:
           | It may, but unlike most omission diets, celiac disease
           | requires strict cross-contamination avoidance requiring
           | special considerations in the prep area (or better yet, a
           | separate prep area). It's difficult for restaurants to
           | provide safe gluten-free meals but in general I've noticed
           | the options are much better than they were a decade ago.
        
       | Insanity wrote:
       | My grandmother became a widow this year, after almost 70 years of
       | marriage.
       | 
       | She talked daily about how she finds it hard to eat, or make
       | food, for one. Our solution now is that she visits other family
       | members for dinner instead, and that helps at least for dinner
       | time.
        
       | _448 wrote:
       | After my dad passed away, my mom returned home, where they had
       | stayed for more than a decade. My sister called my mom that
       | evening during dinner time to enquire how she was doing and
       | whether she had her dinner. My mom said, "I am cooking, and I
       | feel that he(i.e. my dad) is sitting at the dinner table wait to
       | be served dinner. Even during lunch I felt his presence. I am not
       | alone."
       | 
       | My sister just hung up the phone and drove along with her husband
       | to pick up my mom and bring her back with them. My mom is staying
       | with them ever since.
        
       | LiquidInsect wrote:
       | I'll be seven months in as of two days from now.
       | 
       | I find myself making way too much food, and having to freeze
       | things back. Things I used to make in bulk that would last us 3
       | meals now take me over a week to finish, if I don't just throw it
       | out.
       | 
       | If I don't want to cook, the thought of going out to eat by
       | myself, getting a table for one, just feels pathetic and I don't
       | want to do it. If I order delivery, I still end up getting too
       | much.
       | 
       | If I make some new thing, something she never got to try, I feel
       | like crap because it's another experience we didn't get to have
       | together. Same for going to a new restaurant. All of this will
       | get easier with time but I wouldn't wish this life on anyone.
        
         | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
         | Divorced for two years and I did most of the cooking, it didn't
         | affect me much because I was already making large batches of
         | food and freezing it. Here's my system:
         | 
         | - I cook about two dishes per week that freeze and re-heat
         | well. (chilis, curries, soups, stews, refried beans, hummus,
         | beans, etc) - I cook 6-8 servings at a time, eat one right away
         | and put two away and freeze the rest - Before I eat up the rest
         | of what's in the fridge, I get another 2-4 servings out of the
         | freezer and put them in the fridge - If I don't want to have
         | what's in the fridge or freezer I cook a quick meal (stir fry,
         | omelet, mac & cheese, pasta, ramen, etc)
         | 
         | I never get bored of my food and I don't spend a ton of time
         | cooking. I also like to make things that can be "remixed" into
         | other dishes to keep things interesting.
        
           | acd10j wrote:
           | Divorced and Widowed is not the same thing. In later
           | specially in happy marriage grief component is very profound.
           | In case of divorce grief might not be present.
        
           | bobkazamakis wrote:
           | being a victim of divorce court is entirely a circumstance of
           | your choosing.
        
         | madrox wrote:
         | I'm so sorry for your loss.
        
         | poisonarena wrote:
         | >going out to eat by myself, getting a table for one, just
         | feels pathetic
         | 
         | I do this all the time, movies as well. Never had a spouse, I
         | don't see anything wrong with it. I think you should try it,
         | even if it makes you feel pathetic. You need to learn to live
         | by yourself for a while maybe
        
         | trynewideas wrote:
         | It took me about 14 months to get to the point where enjoying
         | something novel didn't invoke guilt. It has gotten, and does
         | and will get, easier, but I also remember where you were very
         | well and I know there's not much I can say that will help you
         | now - it's terrible.
        
         | jmann99999 wrote:
         | Sorry for your loss. It's never easy.
         | 
         | However, I do want to take away the stigma of eating alone,
         | watching a movie alone, etc. In my previous life, I was a tech
         | consultant who traveled with a team and then was left behind by
         | myself to finish the job. I spent more time alone in New
         | Orleans, Columbus, Newark, and Dallas than I would have ever
         | expected.
         | 
         | What I learned is that many people are alone. Those of us that
         | were alone, together often met others and weren't so alone. It
         | made the time better.
         | 
         | More importantly, you may not want to go out and eat dinner or
         | go to a movie. That is a reasonable choice. That said, if you
         | do and if you are worried about people thinking about you being
         | alone you should know that most people don't notice anyone
         | else. So they are not making judgments.
         | 
         | Most importantly, there are a lot of us who are alone out
         | there. If you sit at the bar (and don't worry about drinking or
         | not), you'll fit right in with the rest of us who are doing the
         | same thing. We're all in this together.
        
           | Nekhrimah wrote:
           | "Yes they're sharing a drink they call loneliness, but it's
           | better than drinking alone."
           | 
           | Billy Joel - The Pianoman.
        
         | sonofhans wrote:
         | I'm so sorry, that sounds unimaginably hard. It's hard for me
         | to cook interesting things when my SO is just out of town for a
         | bit.
         | 
         | One thing that did work for me when we were separated for a
         | while was treating food like a chore, like showering or
         | running. I gave myself permission to be monotonous, and just
         | kept eating the same simple healthy things.
        
           | LiquidInsect wrote:
           | I have my phone remind me do to all those simple things that
           | used to be effortless, like take a shower, eat something,
           | feed the cat, water the plants, etc.
           | 
           | It does tend to be a lot of the same stuff. I've made more or
           | less the same breakfast for 7 months now.
        
             | trynewideas wrote:
             | Right after my spouse passed, my neighbors very cleverly
             | asked me if I could make them coffee and bring it over
             | every morning - I had an espresso maker, it was still peak
             | pandemic with limited access to coffee shops, I'd been so
             | isolated and careful as a caretaker that I wasn't a risk,
             | and they were desperate to have lattes.
             | 
             | That got me out of bed every day for months, right when I
             | wanted to the least. I'd eventually have to leave the house
             | to pick up coffee and milk. It meant making someone happy
             | every day, doing something I enjoyed, saying hi and talking
             | to someone face-to-face even if it was brief. That kept me
             | going and held me accountable. Anything you can do like
             | that is going to make things easier.
        
               | mwigdahl wrote:
               | Sounds like you have wise and kind neighbors. I'm very
               | sorry for your loss but I'm happy they were able to help
               | keep you connected to life.
        
         | incanus77 wrote:
         | It will get easier. Six and a half years for me, after almost
         | ten of marriage. I wasn't the main meal preparer, but
         | everything about mealtime took a different tack, including
         | going out and experiencing new things in life. I felt like half
         | of a team tackling the world. Eventually I moved to the mindset
         | that the number one thing she would have wanted for me was to
         | keep adventuring and getting out there, and I took to it
         | quickly. Just as we grew to a be a team, I grew for a while to
         | be solo, and then eventually grew to be a team with someone
         | else. Our hearts heal and our patterns can change.
        
         | ep103 wrote:
         | I understand that the main issue is the sadness, but there is
         | nothing wrong with going to a restaurant by yourself.
         | Absolutely nothing, and there is nothing to be ashamed of or
         | pathetic. No one else in the restaurant will think twice about
         | it either.
        
           | Cerium wrote:
           | I used to dine out a lot by myself. At first it is strange,
           | but you can get over it. Other people assume you are
           | traveling or working late. The waitstaff tend to pay more
           | attention to you in my experience. Places I frequented would
           | do things like bring me tea right away.
        
             | Mustache wrote:
             | I still dine out alone at times because my family doesn't
             | like some of the places I like to eat (spicy foods mostly)
             | and I don't care what anyone thinks, it doesn't bother me.
        
           | 13of40 wrote:
           | I wish this were true, but I can tell when someone thinks I'm
           | a weirdo for eating out alone. Just a month or two ago I went
           | to a McMenamins (a pub/restaurant chain in Oregon and
           | Washington) to have lunch and poke on my laptop, and the guy
           | seating me literally asked if I didn't, like, have a wife or
           | kids or anything.
        
             | Arrath wrote:
             | What a rude host, damn.
        
             | maximus-decimus wrote:
             | You're not a weirdo. That host is a weirdo.
        
             | stickfigure wrote:
             | "They died in a car accident. Thanks for asking."
        
               | InCityDreams wrote:
               | "Yes, they came last week, and i wanted to see if you're
               | as big a cunt as they said you were."
        
           | trynewideas wrote:
           | There's so much more to it than embarrassment when grief is
           | involved.
           | 
           | For me it felt pathetic because their absence overshadowed
           | absolutely everything else, making it all feel wasted, from
           | the effort to get out of the house to the order to eating to
           | returning home.
           | 
           | It didn't matter if the restaurant or bar was full or empty,
           | what others thought about me never crossed my mind, because
           | all I could think about was the empty seat across from me,
           | the empty stool next to me. Why bother when I can feel like
           | that at home?
        
             | LiquidInsect wrote:
             | That's it, right there. It's less about what I imagine
             | people around me are thinking and more about that inner
             | critic. It's a hard thing to silence.
        
           | mattbee wrote:
           | If a buzzy restaurant or show has a long queue outside you
           | can usually skip it on your own. Feels very cool!
        
           | gorjusborg wrote:
           | Right on. I do sometimes notice when people dine out alone,
           | but I don't see it as strange or lesser than. I really just
           | see them as a strong person, and wonder about their story.
        
           | quickthrower2 wrote:
           | I was bored, went to a pub alone once, played pool with
           | random people, was quite fun. For couple of hours. But didn't
           | like it as a general habit. But no one cared.
        
         | NamTaf wrote:
         | Just chiming in to say that I went through all of this myself
         | in 2015. It's a long adjustment and grief is non-linear, but
         | ultimately adjust you will.
        
         | digitalengineer wrote:
         | I am sorry for you loss. someone I hold dear shared "A short
         | story for support, by an old man" with me and I found it
         | helpful. I don't know who wrote it, but perhaps I can share it
         | here.
         | 
         | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I2OnFobFvY0m3i4SGuDFh2kH...
        
       | Zachsa999 wrote:
       | While eating at a restaurant yesterday I saw my old friend who
       | lost his partner to cancer 2 months ago eating alone. He was
       | looking very lonely, and I was struck with how eating is an
       | immense part of our social life as humans.
       | 
       | I walked over and chatted after which he looked physically
       | healthier. Let's not forget our loved ones.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | In general I have a rule - if I see someone at a restaurant I
         | know who is alone I offer to join them. Or if they walk in I
         | wave them over.
         | 
         | I don't get a ton of chances to utilize this rule, but it's
         | been successful.
        
           | UIUC_06 wrote:
           | You're a nice person. I'm often alone, and I might or might
           | not welcome the company, depending.
           | 
           | It's probably easier for a table of three or more to welcome
           | a stranger. There are actually restaurants where "big tables
           | full of strangers" are the rule, not the exception.
           | 
           | "Sit at the bar" is my recommendation. Being alone is more
           | normal there, and it's easy to chat with the person next to
           | you.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Yeah, one of the nicest things about Amtrak long-distance
             | trains is you sit to dinner at a packed table for 4 no
             | matter how many are in your party. Somehow that leads to
             | conversation when sitting next to someone for ten hours on
             | a plane doesn't.
        
               | pengaru wrote:
               | I found this one of the most obnoxious aspects of riding
               | the Zephyr.
               | 
               | Even when there were plenty of open dining tables staff
               | packed us in like sardines with complete strangers who
               | half the time devolved the conversation into insane
               | right-wing politics and spouting q-anon level conspiracy
               | theories.
               | 
               | It only served to further cement my preference for
               | fasting on train rides. That round-trip was shared with
               | my mother who attended every meal in the dining car, and
               | sometimes I just went with to keep her company. The
               | social aspect could be great if the quality of the people
               | were more predictably good... but it's an outmoded form
               | of travel inching across the USA, I found the people
               | mostly unwelcome at the shared table.
        
               | UIUC_06 wrote:
               | Different strokes. Maybe you and your mother could subtly
               | make fun of the crazies, in a way that you two could
               | laugh about later.
               | 
               | I knew a guy whose standard answer to a crazy
               | conspiracist was to look seriously at them and say, "It's
               | even worse than you think!" Never tried that, myself.
        
               | pengaru wrote:
               | That's not really what I'm interested in when trying to
               | enjoy/share a meal.
               | 
               | Much of the social problems in the Zephyr's dining car
               | are created by Amtrak. I'm not sure if it was this way
               | pre-covid, but presently only sleeper car passengers have
               | dining car access. It could be another form of
               | skimpflation. But the current experience on that train is
               | highly segregated coach vs. sleeper car passengers. This
               | selects for a specific demographic in the dining car.
               | 
               | The socializing is much healthier and more diverse in the
               | lounge car where all passengers have access, and you get
               | to choose where you sit and have freedom to move around
               | at will.
               | 
               | What goes on in the dining car today is a complete shit
               | show.
               | 
               | (I rode the Zephyr between IL and CA four times this
               | year, twice in coach and twice in a sleeper (two round
               | trips))
        
           | paganel wrote:
           | I know that you're doing it with a good heart, just wanted to
           | point out that are some of us who do like to eat out alone.
           | After my divorce about 10 years ago there were a few years
           | when I went out eating all by myself and I couldn't say that
           | I was sad during those going outs, quite the contrary.
           | 
           | Also, I personally don't like socialising, as in talking,
           | while eating, and I guess I'm not alone in this.
        
             | Zachsa999 wrote:
             | Each to his own. Just don't forget the vastly different
             | experiences everyone on this planet has.
        
               | paganel wrote:
               | Of course, hence my comment.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | notacoward wrote:
       | There's a lesser version of this in the "empty nest" scenario.
       | When my daughter (only child) went to college, there were
       | suddenly some meals I had no reason to cook - it's funny how you
       | can miss cooking something you never particularly cared to eat -
       | and many snacks I had no reason to stock. Even the meals I do
       | cook have often needed adjustment for two people instead of
       | three. Still haven't found a good half-size pan for my "Hamtramck
       | style" pizza (Detroit style with kielbasa). The kitchen is
       | definitely a sadder place than it used to be, and it does make me
       | wonder about the days when it'll be just one.
       | 
       | Also, now I understand better why my mother always kept my
       | favorite cookies around even though we only visited once a year
       | or less. I never had the heart to tell her that they were always
       | stale by the time we got there.
        
         | nickphx wrote:
         | My oldest recently moved out, youngest off to college... I'm
         | finding it difficult to adjust cooking habits as well. It's
         | interesting to me how our behaviors adjust to accommodate
         | life's needs and how noticeable they become once they're no
         | longer needed.
        
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