[HN Gopher] California greenlights jaywalking. It's a step in th...
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       California greenlights jaywalking. It's a step in the right
       direction
        
       Author : eternalban
       Score  : 25 points
       Date   : 2022-11-28 01:55 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | josephcsible wrote:
       | Wasn't there just another story from the last day or so about how
       | there are too many pedestrians killed by traffic? Doesn't that
       | make this a big step in the wrong direction?
        
         | stephen_g wrote:
         | No, because "jaywalking" laws never really made people safer...
         | There are obviously many problems to solve, but having crossing
         | the street in many areas criminalised doesn't really help with
         | any of them.
        
         | blamazon wrote:
         | Before jaywalking, cars were demonized as rampant killers in
         | USA. There were efforts to ban them in cities entirely. Certain
         | interests didn't want that, so 'jaywalking' was invented -
         | suddenly cars were not the invader in the pedestrian's street,
         | it was the other way around--peds were now interlopers unless
         | explicitly instructed by car infrastructure. This led to cars
         | going faster in urban environments, with more infrastructure
         | for cars while pedestrians got smaller and smaller slices of
         | the street to use. This series of events is a huge cause of the
         | current state of high pedestrian deaths by traffic. Legalizing
         | pedestrianism is one move in a larger strategy to unroll the
         | mistakes of the past and reclaim the most valuable parts of our
         | cities for humans once again.
        
       | nathanaldensr wrote:
       | Prepare for a huge influx of "accidents" caused by pedestrians
       | intentionally getting hit or pretending to get hit by vehicles.
       | Then, prepare for the subsequent increase in vehicle insurance
       | costs.
        
         | koyote wrote:
         | Is this an issue in countries where jaywalking was never a
         | thing (like the UK)?
         | 
         | Being allowed to cross a road at any point does not imply that
         | you are indemnified for intentionally jumping into traffic.
        
           | crote wrote:
           | I can't speak for the UK, but in The Netherlands the driver
           | is virtually always considered to be at fault - except
           | _extremely_ rare ones where the driver could not have
           | _possibly_ anticipated and /or avoided it. To give an
           | example, hitting a child who suddenly runs onto the road is
           | the driver's fault, as children are well-known to be
           | unpredictable and do stupid things.
           | 
           | But no, insurance fraud like that does not really exist here,
           | probably because there is nothing to gain from it. We don't
           | do multi-million-dollar lawsuits for things like emotional
           | damage, and liability is just a thing between your insurance
           | and theirs.
        
         | thebooktocome wrote:
         | It doesn't seem likely that a minor misdemeanor jaywalking
         | ticket, very rarely enforced (at least, as far as I have seen),
         | would really budge the needle either way as far as the overall
         | frequency of jaywalking is concerned.
         | 
         | So rest assured. Your precious insurance premiums are safe.
        
       | refurb wrote:
       | CA doesn't prosecute major crimes like burglary, shoplifting or
       | drug possession. How many people have gotten ticketed for
       | jaywalking beyond the rare exception?
       | 
       | I jaywalk all the time, even in front of cops and nothing
       | happened.
       | 
       | This is like legalizing pot in CA. It's just updating the law to
       | reflect enforcement.
        
         | dghlsakjg wrote:
         | That's because jaywalking is frequently, if not always, used as
         | a pretext to stop and investigate someone for purposes of
         | harassments or profiling.
         | 
         | Do you dress well, and generally look like a law abiding
         | citizen? I'll bet you never get stopped.
         | 
         | If you wrapped yourself in blankets and started pushing a
         | shopping cart in an affluent area, you would learn all about
         | laws that you had no idea existed.
        
         | nwiswell wrote:
         | Huh? Jaywalking is not a felony, it's a traffic violation.
         | You'd get a ticket. There is no criminal trial. This is like
         | saying CA doesn't fine people for speeding.
         | 
         | Jaywalking laws are probably enforced whenever they're
         | convenient to enforce, i.e. against undesirables.
        
         | bluejekyll wrote:
         | You're dancing around one of the issues here, and that's
         | selective enforcement. When laws like this remain on the books,
         | they can be used to target specific areas or segments of the
         | population. That's one reason that it's being removed.
        
       | AtlasBarfed wrote:
       | What's the impact on liability if you hit a pedestrian under this
       | change?
       | 
       | I'm thinking of all the ludicrous dashcam vids from Russia where
       | people weakly fake getting hit by a car.
        
       | noodlesUK wrote:
       | I've never understood this attitude to crossing the road. In
       | every European country, you simply cross the road if you can get
       | across to the other side safely. If there is a signal, you can
       | use it to stop the cars. The middle of the road seems like it
       | would be a much safer place to cross than at intersections in
       | many instances as there wouldn't be people turning unexpectedly.
        
         | boc wrote:
         | I found that Germans in Berlin got quite annoyed at me, an
         | American, when I'd cross an empty road against the signal.
         | They'd point at the "red man" and scold me. It was quite
         | amusing coming from Boston where jaywalking is out of control.
        
         | euos wrote:
         | Have you left US ever? I am from eastern Europe and I spent a
         | lot of time living in other countries. You should be suicidal
         | to try and cross the street outside of crossing in cities like
         | London and Paris. I still notice new immigrants confusing US
         | drivers by giving the car the priority.
        
           | noodlesUK wrote:
           | > Have you left US ever?
           | 
           | I'm British? If you mean have I left the UK, yes. I've been a
           | lot of different places and what I mean is that the idea that
           | it should be illegal to cross the road even when there are
           | not any cars is a bizarre US thing.
        
         | noobermin wrote:
         | Relevant: https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-
         | history
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | There was a study of traffic savvy animals (feline and canine
         | mainly) some years ago who roam freely, gps trackers were
         | attached and they would predominately cross roads only away
         | from intersections, for the reason you cited.
         | 
         | Why watch four or so directions when you could only watch two?
         | 
         | I think the study had a name like the secret life of pets,
         | except that's a recent cartoon movie, so may have been the
         | hidden/secret lives of dogs. I searched but can't find it,
         | though I'm relatively sure it was on US 60 Minutes at some
         | point.
        
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