[HN Gopher] As Gen X and Boomers Age, They Confront Living Alone
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       As Gen X and Boomers Age, They Confront Living Alone
        
       Author : wallflower
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2022-11-27 18:41 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | WBrentWilliams wrote:
       | I look at this issue and see a market failure. Maybe it is not
       | corporately profitable to provide the pile of services that a
       | population aging in place need (welfare checks, transportation,
       | food, housing...) but it should be possible to build the
       | infrastructure to create the raft out of parts of a solution.
       | Maybe a mix of formal (paid-for) and informal (volunteer, value-
       | add) services. I see this as a necessity for people that do not
       | at the moment face this "cliff". After all, spouses die, children
       | leave and/or live far away. Any person in a stable situation at
       | the moment could easily find themselves in need of these
       | services.
        
       | mahathu wrote:
       | > That shift presents issues on housing, health care and personal
       | finance.
       | 
       | I wonder why it leaves out the adverse effects on mental health
       | of living alone, which are arguably the worst of the bunch.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | From the piece:
         | 
         | > But while many people in their 50s and 60s thrive living
         | solo, research is unequivocal that people aging alone
         | experience worse physical and mental health outcomes and
         | shorter life spans.
        
       | EasyTiger_ wrote:
       | Why does US media seem to get a stiffy out of others' despair?
        
       | aliqot wrote:
       | Devils advocate for the sake of debate: We're breaking a lot of
       | relationship norms in the recent generations, why shouldn't being
       | married in a nuclear arrangement be one of those?
        
         | jasmer wrote:
         | That norm is definitely mostly broken. While I suppose we
         | should always question old norms, we probably should apply at
         | least as much scrutiny to new ideals as well. Despite some
         | gains here and there (and some of it irretrievably important),
         | I don't think we've really figured it out on the social front
         | at all, and we're losing almost as much as we are gaining.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | But you aren't really advocating for anything. "Breaking a lot
         | of norms recently" isn't really an argument, unless you have
         | some specific argument for _why_ lots of elderly people living
         | alone is a good thing.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | shortcake27 wrote:
           | It's very common for the older generation to persist in toxic
           | relationships, because a) "till death do us part" and b)
           | anyone who didn't want a nuclear family was "not normal".
           | Modern generations are realising they don't need to live a
           | life they don't enjoy, which leads to more isolation. I would
           | rather live alone than live in a bad relationship. Not saying
           | this is the sole cause, but it would definitely be a factor.
        
       | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
       | We need a version of hackernews that dismisses paywalled/
       | adwalled/ crap walled content.
        
         | johnea wrote:
         | The new york times is easily read by disabling all javascript
         | and cookies...
        
           | johnea wrote:
           | Which is really the way you should surf the intertubes
           | anyway.
           | 
           | Do you just enjoy being a (lonely) data harvesting resource?
        
           | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
           | I think the broader point is to prevent them from getting in
           | front of eyeballs in the first place. If a view of hackernews
           | is available where paywalled content can't make it to the
           | top, this puts the onus on people promoting paywalls to
           | change their behavior.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | > this puts the onus on people promoting paywalls to change
             | their behavior.
             | 
             | The amount of onus this delivers has to be calculated using
             | infinitesimals. Especially compared to the amount of money
             | delivered by paying subscribers.
        
         | mellosouls wrote:
         | It would also be nice if the original submitter (especially
         | frequent ones, who should know better, tho this isn't aimed at
         | anybody in particular including the op) make the effort to post
         | a non-paywalled link at the same time in the first comment
         | rather than the "hit-and-run" approach of many of them. Or if
         | it's a common news story then post from another site instead.
        
         | slang800 wrote:
         | I'd be happy with a browser extension that replaces all the
         | paywalled links on HN with archive links.
        
       | dash2 wrote:
       | I'll try out an extreme point of view here. Modern culture has
       | failed, we need to replace it. One third of 50 year olds living
       | alone is as good a symptom as any. You could mention the birth
       | rate also. The two are obviously connected.
       | 
       | Am I right? Is that too nuts? I just don't see how this ends
       | well. We have effectively socialized old age care, and now we are
       | expecting future generations, an ever-shrinking group, to pay for
       | the pensions of people they have never met.
        
         | copperx wrote:
         | I wouldn't go as far, but certainly, the death of the multi-
         | generational household has brought tragic consequences.
        
           | api wrote:
           | I have a multi generational household right now with my
           | father staying in our finished basement. It's working out
           | very well, but we also have a fairly big house in the
           | Midwest. I'm not sure it could work for us in a small place.
           | It'd be hard for my wife and I to have a relationship or any
           | intimacy.
           | 
           | Other cultures deal with this though. I'm sure it can be
           | done. There's ways to build privacy into a small place. Did
           | it in college. But it would require some changes to how we
           | expect to use the space, something more like a dorm with
           | common areas than a traditional house.
        
         | whynotminot wrote:
         | > We have effectively socialized old age care, and now we are
         | expecting future generations, an ever-shrinking group, to pay
         | for the pensions of people they have never met.
         | 
         | In some form or fashion, this is how things have always worked.
         | The young take care of the old. It's not really a problem, so
         | long as you have enough young folks around.
         | 
         | I think your first paragraph is right--modern culture is
         | failing at giving humans the connection they need. That's the
         | real problem we need to figure out. Taking care of old people
         | is just always going to be A Thing We Have To Do until we all
         | get issued a robot or whatever.
        
           | aliqot wrote:
           | We're also perpetuating values like fierce independence. This
           | has an effect as everyone is focused on me-me-me rather than
           | finding a mate. To this style of rhetoric, finding a mate is
           | succumbing to the status quo, and surrendering to common
           | relationship ideals.
        
             | thechao wrote:
             | Isn't this a self-correcting phenomenon in the long-run?
        
           | api wrote:
           | Modern culture makes it easier than ever for people to reach
           | each other but it also makes it easy for people to isolate
           | and live alone.
           | 
           | Quite a few people seem to choose the latter even though it
           | usually makes people less happy and less fulfilled.
           | 
           | Or... does it? I know more than one person who lives alone
           | because they got too tired of drama.
           | 
           | I don't live alone but have a pretty good relationship with
           | my SO. If I had a bad one and could not repair it, living
           | alone may be preferable.
        
         | la64710 wrote:
         | You have to make a small distinction between groups that are
         | alone and unhappy AND groups that are alone to be happy.
         | 
         | To each his own I say.
        
           | dash2 wrote:
           | Sure. Are most people single in their 50s by choice, as in
           | they would prefer that to being in a relationship with
           | children? I doubt it. Even if they are, if they're relying on
           | being supported by the next generation, that is still leaning
           | on outsiders, and the outcome may be quite disappointing.
        
             | la64710 wrote:
             | Nothing happens without reason and some of those reasons
             | maybe due to choices made earlier in life. Take
             | responsibility for those choices , and most importantly if
             | someone is feeling lonely please consider to wholeheartedly
             | getting involved in volunteering and helping others. It is
             | not a replacement for a relationship but it opens doors to
             | human connections. Life is impermanent , we come alone and
             | go alone , whatever time you find in this planet try
             | whatever ways you can connect to others.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | You don't really. You just have to make the assumptions that
           | 1) the proportion between the two groups isn't radically
           | increasing recently in favor of people who want to be alone,
           | and 2) that when a higher proportion of people who are alone
           | report being sad about that and sadder and sicker in general
           | as compared to people who are not, they're not trying to
           | trick you.
        
         | newaccount2021 wrote:
        
       | throwaway128128 wrote:
       | Denmark's got a great solution: https://journal.theaou.org/news-
       | and-reviews/the-popularity-o...
       | 
       | Too bad such a thing would be deemed "socialist" in the US.
        
       | shagie wrote:
       | Gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/us/living-alone-
       | aging.htm...
        
       | slang800 wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/SxVta
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | johnea wrote:
        
         | _trackno5 wrote:
         | heh, it sounds funny when you put it that way, but some people
         | legitimately have a hard time socialising and forming deep
         | connections with others.
         | 
         | Doubt it's a new thing, but maybe it gets exacerbated nowadays
         | with everyone being online all the time.
        
         | jleyank wrote:
         | Must be an extrovert. It's easy to be lonely in a crowd and in
         | fact the crowd having strong interactions can drive it home.
         | Different strokes, eh. Be empathetic with those unlike
         | yourself.
        
         | slang800 wrote:
         | It's hard to be sympathetic when these boomers choose to be
         | alone, not marry, and not have kids. What did they think was
         | going to happen when they got old?
        
           | woofyman wrote:
           | Spouses die. Children move away.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | Not nearly as pathetic as assuming that the 8 billion are (a)
         | essentially fungible from a relationship standpoint (b) equally
         | eager to engage in a relationship with anyone who likes (c)
         | within reasonable proximity and that's just a start of the
         | assumptions you probably didn't even do enough thinking to know
         | that you thoughtlessly made.
         | 
         | On the plus side, coming in hot with a low-value comment
         | frosted with general contempt for an entire class of people
         | _does_ narrow down where in the 8 billion people someone might
         | look for rewarding companionship by at least a value of one, or
         | provide you with the opportunity to bask in the kind of
         | disagreeable engagement and connection you seem to have
         | indicated you prefer, so I guess that 's kindof nice.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-27 23:02 UTC)