[HN Gopher] How I hang Christmas lights without a ladder
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       How I hang Christmas lights without a ladder
        
       Author : mtgentry
       Score  : 143 points
       Date   : 2022-11-27 16:17 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (imgur.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (imgur.com)
        
       | senthil_rajasek wrote:
       | "The carefully split the wire part" in many places has me
       | concerned about electric shock.
       | 
       | Is this wiring upto code in the U.S?
       | 
       | Also, the comment at the end to use "hooks" beats the whole point
       | of using magnets.
        
         | martyvis wrote:
         | Surely that cable is single insulated, so low voltage
         | application (less than 32V)?
        
           | deelowe wrote:
           | Looks like pretty standard "lamp wire" to me. Single
           | insulated and rated for 120v ac.
        
         | mtgentry wrote:
         | Splitting the wire is safe if you're careful but no it's not
         | code lol. And it's just one hook at the peak of the roof but it
         | might be possible w/o it. I didn't need any hooks.
        
         | jffry wrote:
         | The two conductors in the wire are insulated separately and
         | sort of lightly attached so it's probably OK if done carefully.
         | 
         | If this was me, I would've threaded the lights through the big
         | triangle piece directly and attached with zip ties, instead of
         | modifying the cord.
         | 
         | > Also, the comment at the end to use "hooks" beats the whole
         | point of using magnets.
         | 
         | Installing a nondescript hook up there would be a one-time use
         | of a ladder which could just be borrowed or rented from
         | somewhere. Future decorations can be done with just the
         | extending pole and magnetic attachment.
        
         | mindslight wrote:
         | Haha, code. IIRC, Christmas lights have their own exception in
         | the NEC, as the things are wildly unsafe by general NEC
         | standards. For example, nothing stops you from plugging a space
         | heater into the outlet at the end of a string. But relax, it's
         | Christmas!
         | 
         | Having said that, OP's lights are built a bit more solid
         | because they look like the 120V parallel-wired style, rather
         | than the series wired tiny lights. I'd be completely
         | comfortable splitting the two conductors down the middle like
         | that. That's exactly what you do to terminate a wire, although
         | doing it in the middle of a cable is trickier because you need
         | to be more accurate. Start the split with a sharp knife at one
         | point, then you should be able to just pull the conductors
         | apart.
         | 
         | For the general idea, I love it and it has me wondering if my
         | gutters are steel. Although part of me wants to permanently
         | hang WS2812 strips and be decorated for every holiday.
        
           | c22 wrote:
           | _> nothing stops you from plugging a space heater into the
           | outlet at the end of a string._
           | 
           | I think a lot of christmas lights come with unpolarized plugs
           | to make this more challenging. Also the tiny (3amp?) built-in
           | fuses give you an extra level of protection beyond what you'd
           | get with a simple extension cord of similar specs.
        
           | ProblemFactory wrote:
           | Despite the electrical risks, it's crazy how much Christmas
           | safety has improved.
           | 
           | I remember https://i.imgur.com/vKbfzEs.jpg from my childhood.
           | Small metal clips to attach real candles to the Christmas
           | tree. 20-50 open flame candles on a dried out Spruce, one of
           | the best fire starters possible.
        
             | tannhaeuser wrote:
             | Could be worse: use last-year's spruce/fir preserved using
             | glycerine and/or formaldehyde. Try eco-friendly or self-
             | made decoration from real hay, paper, and wood instead of
             | metal or plastic. Use combustible adhesive to bend into
             | form. Also, use candles from bee's wax instead of parrafin
             | or stearin for extra temperature, flame height, and CO. No
             | risk, no fun ;)
        
             | fbdab103 wrote:
             | It somehow never occurred to me that - obviously the
             | traditional Christmas lights were candles. Unless the
             | original method was to cut at tree, decorate a still wet
             | one for a day, and then toss it - how did anyone ever
             | consider that a good idea?
        
               | nemo44x wrote:
               | You would be present when they were burning which I
               | assume was on Christmas Eve in most places. Tree was
               | probably cut down the same day too.
               | 
               | But yeah it's an awful idea. People YOLOd more back in
               | the day.
        
             | Xylakant wrote:
             | I still use those.
        
               | fbdab103 wrote:
               | Why? That looks like a guaranteed way to result in an
               | accident for a pretty minor novelty. If nothing else,
               | using leds that look like candles would be less
               | maintenance with the huge upside that they are incredibly
               | unlikely to be able to start a fire.
        
               | Symbiote wrote:
               | Some people in Central Europe still use real candles on
               | the Christmas tree. Of course, you place the candles
               | carefully and don't leave them unattended.
               | 
               | (I have no idea how common it is, but I've seen the
               | candles and brackets for sale.)
        
               | Xylakant wrote:
               | It is fairly common in Germany. There's a special size of
               | candles that fits those holders (Christbaumkerzen) and
               | they're a thing you'll find everywhere in shops around
               | Christmas time. I've never had a tree with LED in my
               | entire life.
               | 
               | You must observe some safety rules, have a bucket of
               | water or an extinguisher at hand (not under the tree) and
               | never leave the candles unattended. And yes, be careful
               | where you place the candles. Can't have a branch that's
               | hanging over them.
        
               | alpaca128 wrote:
               | If it was a guaranteed accident like you suggest people
               | wouldn't have done it for decades. Not the safest thing,
               | but judging by the news it seems not even close to all
               | the injuries weeks later from fireworks.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | Pro-tip to keep your tree longer: spray water on the tree
             | itself!
        
           | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
           | >Although part of me wants to permanently hang WS2812 strips
           | and be decorated for every holiday.
           | 
           | I have a bunch of ESP-01 LED controllers, I'm totally gonna
           | do that now. Just gotta figure out how to weatherproof it.
        
           | masklinn wrote:
           | > For example, nothing stops you from plugging a space heater
           | into the outlet at the end of a string. But relax, it's
           | Christmas!
           | 
           | IIRC because they're designed to chain but not for high power
           | applications, Christmas cords are one of the few extensions
           | which routinely include a fuse[0], usually 2.5 to 5 amps.
           | 
           | So you can plug a space heater at the end of the string, not
           | much should happen.
           | 
           | As opposed to using a 15A extension to plug a 20A device into
           | a 20A circuit, which you can absolutely do, and which will
           | burn your house down.
           | 
           | [0] in the US, as opposed to the UK where everything includes
           | a fuse because ring circuit baby
        
             | mindslight wrote:
             | Hm, I'm reviewing my copy of the 2011 NEC and can't find
             | the part I remember. I swore I recall reading something
             | that basically carved out exceptions for thin wires for
             | long strings of lights, but maybe I'm misremembering.
             | 
             | Of course, manufactured items aren't actually regulated
             | under the NEC, but rather UL/ETL or another NRTL. Which is
             | why you run your nice 10gauge wire for a dryer, then at the
             | junction panel inside it switches over to 14 ga stranded or
             | whatever. They've done the math with power dissipation,
             | higher temp insulation, etc etc. And if it burns down your
             | house you get to sue the manufacturer.
             | 
             | As an aside, it's a travesty that public.resource.org no
             | longer has the building codes available. If the codes are
             | not available for all to read, they cannot be considered
             | binding law.
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | _wondering if my gutters are steel._
           | 
           | Are they rusting?
           | 
           | If not, probably not. [1]
           | 
           | [1] To coma, stainless steel is not magnetic.
        
             | mindslight wrote:
             | Well, they're painted. And you'd think that would still
             | mean rust where they were scratched, cut, etc. But OP's
             | magnets stuck to a drip edge, which I wouldn't think would
             | be made out of plain steel either. I'm assuming my gutters
             | aren't ferromagnetic, but I could be pleasantly surprised!
        
               | brudgers wrote:
               | On US homes, drips are typically galvanized steel because
               | they are a commoditized roofing product.
               | 
               | Gutters are usually aluminum because gutters and
               | downspouts are a specialized trade and those businesses
               | fabricate components on-site from aluminum roll stock to
               | correctly fit the building.
        
         | AnotherGoodName wrote:
         | Yeah why not use the eyelet and a 1cent cable tie?
         | 
         | I really don't get the lack of calling this out. I'm ok with a
         | little fudging with outdoor lights but this here doesn't make
         | sense.
        
           | mtgentry wrote:
           | Yeah this was the next best option. But I didn't want to
           | spend any time on the roof and my ladder doesn't go high
           | enough so went with magnets. Also I wasn't crazy about having
           | hooks up there all year round, even though I would be the
           | only person to notice them.
        
         | pulvinar wrote:
         | Seems you could use a second pole (and a helper) in place of
         | the hook, for 100% ladder-free.
         | 
         | Of course this all will increase pole-related accidents...
        
       | chrisbrandow wrote:
       | This is so smart. Even if it requires an initial reinstall action
       | of magnetizable spots along the roof.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | You can get led strips of lights designed for outdoors that when
       | off are just a clearish rope.
       | 
       | Install those permanently and when they're not on they're
       | basically invisible.
        
         | kiawe_fire wrote:
         | As an added bonus, many have an array of color options, which
         | makes it easy to change the lights to suit Halloween, Easter,
         | Independence Day, or any other holiday you want your house to
         | observe.
        
         | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
         | Individually addressable, waterproof LEDs are super cheap. Most
         | expensive part is the power supply.
        
           | pifm_guy wrote:
           | They also don't last outside long...
           | 
           | Eaten by squirrels... Tube gets full of water... As soon as
           | one LED dies, all the rest start flickering like crazy....
        
             | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
             | You can get ones fully incased in silicone but that might
             | not stop the squirrels...
        
         | factsarelolz wrote:
         | The clear plastic in which they are housed (think rope light)
         | will turn yellow and brittle after a season of sun. Places like
         | Florida, might have to replace due to sun degradation.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | You can get more expensive ones designed to last - but
           | they're nowhere near as cheap as the simple spools you find
           | at Walmart etc.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | Agreed. My wife's been buying these. We have two plugin type,
         | and I think 4 solar type.
         | 
         | The solar type seem to only last a year or two, but really nice
         | for wrapping far away bushes and such.
        
         | Zircom wrote:
         | We tried that with some lights we in our bushes thinking it'd
         | be fine to just keep them off, they're not even visible unless
         | you were on our porch with your nose against the bushes looking
         | for them. HOA ended up fining us anyways, nosy fucks.
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | Genius!
       | 
       | There is a product idea there, both full on magnetic light sets.
       | But also simpler magnetic clips for use on any lights.
        
         | dskhatri wrote:
         | These may exist. For example, search for magnetic C9 light
         | clips on Amazon.
        
           | mtgentry wrote:
           | My issue with those is you probably still need a ladder to
           | place them. My family has a history with ladder accidents so
           | I wanted to avoid that haha.
        
             | mh- wrote:
             | My family doesn't have a history of ladder accidents, but
             | I'm not looking to be the one who starts that legacy
             | either.
        
       | Kaibeezy wrote:
       | It's making me wonder if permanent ornamental LED lights aren't
       | an option. Checking that...
       | 
       | Well, looks like both permanent and seasonal professional
       | installs are happening.
       | 
       | https://tulsaworld.com/lifestyles/home-and-garden/merry-and-...
        
       | brudgers wrote:
       | _Magnet attaches to the roof edge flashing which is metal._
       | 
       | In the US, there is a substantial probability the flashing is
       | non-magnetic aluminum.
       | 
       | So test first.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | Most places in the world with metal flashing, metal gutters, or
         | other metal on an exterior will have aluminum.
         | 
         | It's old houses that might have steel.
         | 
         | If you have a new house, I guarantee this won't work. If you
         | have an old house it's worth checking, though.
        
           | grey-area wrote:
           | Or lead flashing, which is still popular.
        
           | markdown wrote:
           | I wonder which places still use any metal at all. I haven't
           | seen those in decades. It's all plastic here.
        
             | LgWoodenBadger wrote:
             | Aluminum is popular because it can be formed into seamless
             | gutters of any length on the job site.
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | I qualified my comment with "in the US" because that is the
           | limit of my informed opinion.
        
           | pifm_guy wrote:
           | And very old houses will have lead. Also non-magnetic.
        
           | ian-g wrote:
           | And you can tell from the style that OP's house is old. It
           | could easily predate the great depression
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | nemo44x wrote:
             | Yeah it looks like an early 20th century 1920s Craftsman
             | style home. (1905-1929) It's likely made of extremely high
             | quality old growth wood and a rather lovely home to live in
             | if well maintained.
        
               | Maursault wrote:
               | > it looks like an early 20th century 1920s Craftsman
               | style home
               | 
               | As you're likely aware, American Craftsman is an
               | architectural style inspired by the Arts and Crafts
               | Movement.[1] In an historical double entendre,
               | "Craftsman" can mean something else entirely, and yet can
               | still be American Craftsman, as this home is. These
               | particular style American Craftsman home in particular,
               | among the many types of American Craftsman, with the
               | front covered porch on the short end of the rectangular
               | shape, were sold out of the Sears Catalog.[2] Sears
               | _Craftsman_... get it? Sears sold various architectural
               | styles, such as Cape Cod, but I think far and away the
               | most popular was their American Craftsman home kits,
               | which the OP 's home appears to be. Not all Sears kit
               | homes were American Craftsman, and not all American
               | Craftsman homes are Sears kit homes. But a lot of them
               | are both.
               | 
               | [1]
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arts_and_Crafts_movement
               | 
               | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Modern_Homes
        
               | mtgentry wrote:
               | Neat info! Yes I believe it was a kit. Would love to find
               | the original catalog where it's from.
        
               | mtgentry wrote:
               | Confirmed, 1908 craftsman :) The roof is 20 years old,
               | maybe that's when the switch to aluminum started?
        
               | nemo44x wrote:
               | It's probably galvanized steel which people still use.
               | Copper is common where I live as is aluminum but it
               | wouldn't be weird to see galvanized steel either.
               | 
               | Most likely the roofing people replaced with like
               | material where possible. That's a fairly common choice on
               | old homes, unless the old material is unsafe, not good,
               | or impossible to source.
        
               | cardamomo wrote:
               | I love homes from this era! The quality of the materials,
               | at least among the homes still standing, is often
               | excellent. This is anecdotal, but I find that they also
               | tend to have a lot of natural light and stay cooler in
               | the summer.
        
               | nemo44x wrote:
               | Yeah they're great if maintained. They do tend to have a
               | lot of windows (and larger windows) than typical modern
               | homes. I suspect it's because windows are expensive and
               | the homes still standing were generally the higher
               | quality homes of the era. Also - no AC back then so
               | windows were very much functional appliances.
               | 
               | Double hung sash windows are especially popular in this
               | era because they are designed to maximize airflow. You'd
               | open the bottom sash's on the cool side of the house to
               | let cooler air in and open the top sash's on the other
               | side to let hot air out. This also creates an airflow
               | across the home.
        
               | willcipriano wrote:
               | I never knew that about the double sash windows but it
               | makes sense.
        
               | mtgentry wrote:
               | Yeah I've done extensive work on the house and anywhere
               | that's original is in great shape. All the wood is old
               | growth. It had termite damage at one point but the
               | termites only ate areas where newer (lesser quality) wood
               | was used.
               | 
               | Heck, even the mirror in the bathroom opens and closes
               | perfectly and it's 110 yrs old.
               | 
               | The downsides are there was zero insulation in the walls
               | when we bought it and the leaded glass windows are single
               | pane. I've mostly fixed the insulation problem but the
               | windows will always be pretty to look at but inefficient.
        
               | saalweachter wrote:
               | > The downsides are there was zero insulation in the
               | walls when we bought it
               | 
               | To be fair, "nothing" is like, the best thing you'll find
               | when you look at the insulation in old houses.
        
       | rufus_foreman wrote:
       | I'm saddened by the fact that a gun wasn't involved.
        
       | kylehotchkiss wrote:
       | I love the hook handle tool. This technique seems like it'd do
       | well in places without snow and ice.
        
       | dskhatri wrote:
       | Nice work! We are putting up our lights too. I like the bulbs on
       | the string lights to be regularly spaced and oriented. One can
       | buy plastic clips that latch onto roof gutters or shingles to
       | hold the cone bulbs in a fixed orientation and spacing
       | 
       | Unfortunately, I can only hang my lights around the facade made
       | of plaster (stipple), brick and wood. I don't want to tarnish the
       | facade with hooks or nails and want a solution that can be
       | reattached each holiday season without effort. I tried
       | positioning the bulbs with removable clay/putty, hot glue but
       | none of these temporary adhesives worked well.
       | 
       | The solution I settled on involves driving (permanent but
       | relatively inconspicuous) threaded inserts into the facade at
       | wide spanned intervals - tee-nut inserts [1] for wood and molly
       | bolts for stipple/plaster surfaces [2]. I ordered aluminum bars
       | ($1 per foot on Grainger) that will screw into these inserts
       | during the season. These bars will let me use shingle clips to
       | hold the light bulbs in the desired fixed span and orientation.
       | For Halloween, I can attach led light strips to the bars to give
       | more custom lighting effects.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.mcmaster.com/tee-nut-inserts/ [2]
       | https://www.mcmaster.com/molly-bolts/
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-27 23:01 UTC)