[HN Gopher] The Voyage of Life
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       The Voyage of Life
        
       Author : benbreen
       Score  : 157 points
       Date   : 2022-11-26 05:49 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | SCUSKU wrote:
       | Thanks for posting this OP. I can particularly relate to the
       | Manhood painting right now. I have found many difficulties amid
       | the layoffs. It is a great reminder that others have suffered and
       | struggled just like me, and that this is all part of the human
       | experience.
       | 
       | If you'll excuse religion in this secular space, I believe the
       | best thing I can do to help maintain good mental health is to
       | simply accept that many things are out of my control, and that I
       | must submit myself to the divine, and accept that whatever
       | happens is what has been chosen for me. Which is not to abdicate
       | self-determination, only to accept that I can't control
       | everything.
        
         | billjings wrote:
         | No decent, intellectually curious person should deny religious
         | perspectives in topics like this. Religious writing is
         | literally the prior art here, and still where one can find the
         | richest live discourse.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | I think perhaps it is offensive to claim that decent and
           | intellectual people cannot reject religious fairy tales. This
           | sort of grandfathering in of the legitimacy of the belief in
           | the supernatural is... illogical, to use a charitable term.
        
             | tsol wrote:
             | >reject religious fairy tales
             | 
             | I find the bad faith arguments exhausting. If you won't
             | even acknowledge that not all religions are like
             | Christianity and involve a God, then I has l can have this
             | conversation in the comments section of YouTube.
             | 
             | As an aside, I'm a Muslim. It's a sad development that the
             | liberal atheists that used to be my biggest allies, but as
             | of late Ive received more criticism from liberals than
             | conservatives. That stuff is regularly on the front page of
             | reddit now
        
             | mistermann wrote:
             | Most everyone believes in the supernatural in one way or
             | another, it is fundamental to human consciousness and
             | culture.
             | 
             | Take for example this: "religious fairy tales" - now,
             | perhaps your categorization of what is and is not a
             | religious fairy tale is logically & epistemically perfect,
             | but it is certainly not true of all people who say or
             | believe such things, something I know from extensive
             | experience conversing with atheists, scientific
             | materialists, etc. I've also noticed that people have a
             | tendency to judge the cognitive errors committed by those
             | within their ingroup more charitably than those who are in
             | their outgroups - not a particularly rational behavior, and
             | plausibly a decent way to form incorrect beliefs, yet few
             | have any interest in the phenomenon, especially sometimes.
        
             | TheCache wrote:
             | I don't think "grandfathering in" beliefs is the
             | supernatural is what is being said here. Rather, it is
             | commenting that one should not ignore centuries of
             | religious perspectives in art and literature. One does not
             | have to be religious to appreciate some of the writings
             | about the human soul and the human condition that have come
             | from religious thinkers.
        
             | Swizec wrote:
             | The fairy tales of religion are a narrative device for the
             | very valid philosophical teachings. The idea that you can't
             | control everything is core to many secular life
             | philosophies.
             | 
             | Stoics say things happen, but you can control your
             | reactions. Comedians say shit happens, but you can laugh
             | about it. Religious folk say events occur, but it's god's
             | plan. Buddhists say reality doesn't care about you, but you
             | can accept that it is what it is. Even poker players say
             | that you gotta play the cards you have, not the cards you
             | wish you had.
             | 
             | All the same. Don't let the framing distract you from the
             | insight.
        
             | billjings wrote:
             | It's fine and defensible to reject the religious
             | perspective, but to refuse to admit religious perspectives
             | to the discourse at all is to take pride in ignorance.
             | 
             | In the Christian faith alone, there are over two thousand
             | years worth of literature to contend with, much of it
             | concerned with evergreen concerns like how to be a decent
             | person or what our relationship to be to money and
             | possessions should be. That literature is being added to
             | every week: fresh sermons, both populist and abstruse, are
             | written and delivered every week.
             | 
             | Rejection of the keystone of that writing is something I
             | disagree with, but not on any rational basis. Many who do
             | so, however, also admit into their own hearts and minds a
             | false caricature of the religious intellectual tradition.
             | And that is well worth knocking down.
        
               | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
               | I received as much education concerning Christianity as I
               | desire in the first two decades of my life. There is no
               | fruit of that tree that will result in learning for me at
               | this point and much of it that is pure poison.
               | 
               | The bigotry of our evangelical childhood is a big part of
               | why my brother killed himself as a successful adult and
               | father.
               | 
               | I don't need patronizing characterization of my rejection
               | as willful ignorance. I am not ignorant, merely decided.
               | If you wish to continue to follow those dialogs do so,
               | but drop the superiority.
        
               | billjings wrote:
               | I'm sorry for the loss of your brother.
               | 
               | We're already well off the rails of the original post
               | here, but I do want to say that I share your anger at
               | evangelicalism. Their fundamentalism has made the name of
               | Christianity synonymous with hate and corruption in the
               | US. So...you will find company in your anger with us,
               | too.
        
         | TheCache wrote:
         | I traveled through and am still in a wholly unexpected series
         | of changes recently and found James Hollis' book "Living
         | Between Worlds" to be a fantastic study about living through
         | the uncertainty and outside-of-our-control changes that often
         | happen during the adulthood period alluded to in these
         | paintings.
        
         | rubicon33 wrote:
         | I sometimes wonder if struggle is necessary for joy.
         | 
         | What if we had no struggle, and everything we wanted we
         | instantly had?
         | 
         | Something tells me that life would be zapped of its meaning and
         | pleasure.
         | 
         | Suffering, even pain, are like the opposite side of the same
         | coin. You can't have one without the other, so when facing
         | struggles, try to view it as such; the necessary component in a
         | fulfilling life.
        
           | somesortofthing wrote:
           | > Suffering, even pain, are like the opposite side of the
           | same coin. You can't have one without the other, so when
           | facing struggles, try to view it as such; the necessary
           | component in a fulfilling life.
           | 
           | This is true to some limited extent, but it seems wrong to
           | think of the distinction between happiness is suffering as
           | entirely or even mostly about contrast.
           | 
           | For example, consider a person who has, through some
           | combination of disability, misfortune, and the malice of
           | others, never had any positive moments in their entire life.
           | If you had the power to do so, would it be unnecessary to
           | help them out of their situation? After all, they have no
           | happy memories to contrast their situation against. If you
           | can't guarantee that they won't return to their previous
           | situation, a contrast-based view implies that you would
           | actually be doing harm by putting their past and future
           | suffering into perspective.
           | 
           | When you have no say over what happens to you, contrasting a
           | painful present with a pleasant past is a valuable coping
           | mechanism, but it's also important to not justify
           | suffering(especially the suffering of others) on such grounds
           | in general terms.
           | 
           | To be clear, I'm not accusing you of doing that, just talking
           | about what I've heard from other people on the topic.
        
           | mdturnerphys wrote:
           | Since others have brought up religion already, I'll mention
           | that your thoughts here are very similar to a passage in the
           | Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 2:11-12 (https://www.churchofjesuschr
           | ist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-...).
        
       | dfee wrote:
       | Hacker News: where I come for tech and stay for culture.
       | 
       | Enjoyed the read. Thank you for posting OP.
        
       | brador wrote:
       | The fact that something this important is represented on
       | Wikipedia as a blurred gif of indeterminate length and not 4
       | clickable thumbnails that change a main image makes me angry.
        
         | svantana wrote:
         | Did you know that wikipedia can be edited by anyone, even you
         | or me? Also, the individual images are shown below.
        
         | yunruse wrote:
         | I think in a sense this adds its own sort of artistic value:
         | life and time do not wait for us.
        
       | davepeck wrote:
       | These four paintings alone are sufficient reason to visit the
       | National Gallery if you find yourself in DC.
        
       | Dalewyn wrote:
       | >the romantic beauty of youthful imaginings, when the mind
       | elevates the mean and common into the magnificent, before
       | experience teaches what is the Real.
       | 
       | I'm at that stage of life right now, learning that many of the
       | ideals fed into young minds like I once was were, in fact, just
       | ideals and practically irrelevant to the road of life ahead. That
       | the world of humanity is, in fact, not rainbows and unicorns but
       | vicious and uncaring.
       | 
       | The eloquence of his message strikes deep.
        
         | rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
         | Though do keep in mind the world of humanity is the LEAST
         | vicious and uncaring from the worlds out there!
        
       | mjklin wrote:
       | Cole has a similar series about the rise and fall of the Roman
       | Empire:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Course_of_Empire_(painting...
        
         | ekianjo wrote:
         | Amazing paintings!
        
       | fhkatari wrote:
       | As a non-Christian, I highly recommend the writings of Franciscan
       | priest Richard Rohr, and his metaphor of 'Two Halves of Lives'.
       | The specific title of the book is 'Falling Upward'.
        
       | nelblu wrote:
       | This reminds me of the stages of life as described in Hinduism -
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80%C5%9Brama_%28stage%29?w....
       | Not quite the same but interesting to see how different
       | mythologies have their own interpretation of life.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-26 23:02 UTC)