[HN Gopher] Almost everything on Amazon is becoming an ad
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Almost everything on Amazon is becoming an ad
        
       Author : boplicity
       Score  : 611 points
       Date   : 2022-11-24 14:00 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | butMebbe wrote:
       | The path to success now is still the Walmart model but you have
       | to take longer to get there subtlety. The other Walmarts are out
       | there monitoring for threats and will litigate!
       | 
       | So you have to appear novel to early adopters, and grow into
       | being a landfills cash cow in a politically correct way.
        
       | weba11y wrote:
       | over the years Amazon is getting harder and harder to find
       | products on. I'm sure 10 years ago the quality of products was
       | much better (even if it was a smaller amount of different
       | products available).
        
       | rsaxvc wrote:
       | Alexa is powered by the forges of mount doom, which burn only
       | cash.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | wayeq wrote:
       | behind a paywall.. oh, the ironing
        
       | z9znz wrote:
       | This comedy skit illustrates the same in humor:
       | https://youtu.be/nQpxAvjD_30
        
       | stewx wrote:
       | Kudos to the Bezos-owned Post for openly criticizing Amazon.
        
         | heisenbit wrote:
         | Emperors have a great need for honest feedback on their lack of
         | clothing. The biggest risk to them is being surrounded by all
         | yes people as Putin is learning painfully.
        
       | Razengan wrote:
       | _Everything_ _everywhere_ is become a f 'ing ad. Even the damn
       | posts and comments on social networks like Reddit and sometimes
       | even HN masked as genuine opinion.
       | 
       | Ads are pollution, cancer, and pandemic.
       | 
       | When will the masses buckle under this incessant accursed FATIGUE
       | and demand enough be enough?
        
       | etothet wrote:
       | And it's not just Amazon. This is now the way the web works. In
       | fact, on mobile most of the linked article becomes hidden beneath
       | a WaPo Black Friday ad and a Google ad.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | That's funny. I was scrolling down and after a while the article
       | got covered by a popup ad with something about black friday!
       | subscribe now!
       | 
       | And back to Amazon, i just don't search for generic products name
       | on there. I just go to check if they have a specific product.
       | 
       | Same for the iOS app store etc. You just can't trust them.
        
         | akkartik wrote:
         | I saw the popup and literally kept scrolling. Because it
         | appeared perfectly centered on the amazon screenshot and I
         | thought it was part of the screenshot. And as I scrolled more
         | stuff got added to the screenshot.
         | 
         | It's a Poe's law world we live in.
        
       | tempestn wrote:
       | Anybody else remember the days when you'd be looking at a product
       | in a physical store, and check the Amazon reviews on your phone
       | before buying it, because that was the easiest way to get
       | reliable feedback? How things have changed since then!
        
       | fatneckbeardz wrote:
       | I agree this is horrible.
       | 
       | (this comment is sponsored by Honey, the best way to save money
       | online)
        
       | mk89 wrote:
       | Search engines have overall become terrible due to ads. Amazon is
       | finally a search engine with the extra step of selling a material
       | good.
       | 
       | I have to admit that it has become difficult also for me to find
       | a simple item without too much bias on Amazon. Last search I did
       | a few days ago was for some beard balms and things like that.
       | Finally, for some items I bought a known "safe" brand, while for
       | other things I couldn't decide on I chose a local shop nearby.
       | Yes, this exclusively because of the issue described in the
       | article.
       | 
       | So it seems: if you don't know ahead what to buy, Amazon is not a
       | good place to search for things. On the other hand, it's
       | convenient for subscriptions to items you know you want and need
       | (pampers, toilet paper, etc.)
       | 
       | ...and don't get me started on "let's search for products made in
       | XYZ" to narrow down the search. It's just impossible.
        
       | Arubis wrote:
       | Amazon-the-store is mostly near-shored AliExpress + 7-Eleven at
       | this point. That's got its uses--it's awfully convenient!--but it
       | leaves them open to niched-down competitors that I would love to
       | give my money.
       | 
       | AWS, on the other hand, feels pretty sustainable.
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | Iunno, Amazon has last-mile delivery down to a science
         | relatively inaccessible to small sellers.
         | 
         | Maybe with enough time, non-Amazon services will pop up more
         | and more with the same kind of reach.
         | 
         | I think postal shipping is still within reach in USA, but in
         | Canada, the post sees parcels as a profit-centre and are
         | shouting themselves in the foot as their volumes drop.
        
       | thefourthchime wrote:
       | I have uBlock and fakespoter installed on my browser. I had to
       | open another browser where I wasn't logged in and had no
       | extensions to reproduce the results.
       | 
       | I don't know if the filtered results are that much better. But it
       | is free from blatant ads.
        
       | Ozzie_osman wrote:
       | This statement generalizes to: Almost everything on (ads-
       | monetized tech product) is becoming an ad. The ads business model
       | is just too powerful.
        
       | maxnevermind wrote:
       | I find a general web and pictures Google search for shopping on
       | Amazon more effective, native Amazon one is a dumpster fire.
        
       | 2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote:
       | It has become impossible to find certain products on Amazon
       | unless I know the _exact_ name of it already, instead it will
       | show me multiple pages of garbage that does not even belong to
       | the same category. Often times Amazon will _refuse_ to show me
       | the product I am looking for, going as far as not even list it in
       | the 3-4 pages of results, as if it did not exist. Then I go and
       | enter the exact name and suddenly it shows up, but even then it
       | is often not even among the first results...
        
       | strenholme wrote:
       | That's why I use uBlock origin: It hides all of those Amazon ads.
       | Also hides Twitter ads, even YouTube video ads, pretty much
       | everything except Facebook ads (Facebook plays cat and mouse
       | games with ad blockers).
       | 
       | While I don't mind YouTube ads -- I have disabled ad blockers on
       | that domain because I'm an electronic musician myself so strongly
       | feel it's important to support artists and musicians -- these
       | Amazon ads are in my book unethical, since they look like
       | legitimate results with only a light grey "sponsored" in small
       | text underneath them.
       | 
       | Don't get me started with how Amazon pesters me to join Prime
       | every time I order with them.
        
         | nicbou wrote:
         | This is the internet as I know it since a few years. Going
         | without it is unbearable after just one or two pages. The
         | cookie notices alone are unbelievable. It's wild to think that
         | some people live with the unfiltered Internet.
        
         | LadyCailin wrote:
         | FBPurity does a pretty good job on blocking FB ads. Not
         | perfect, still cat and mouse, but that's the only site it works
         | on, so the devs spend more effort on only that.
        
       | Mistletoe wrote:
       | It's refreshing to see this in the Washington Post, owned by
       | Bezos. Tiny beacon of hope going out into the darkness.
       | 
       | Search ads on shopping websites are just capitalism taken to the
       | natural end. Hopefully degradation of user experience will curb
       | it somewhat. Our only other option is some sort of new Internet
       | Bill of Rights being passed and I'm not optimistic lobbyists
       | would ever allow it. We need some sort of fund for humanity that
       | hires lobbyists with greater funds. We need voters that vote for
       | candidates that would support the human right to freedom from
       | manipulation from corporations.
        
         | sgustard wrote:
         | If you walk into a store and say "I need a cat bed," and the
         | store directs you to the most profitable cat bed ... is that a
         | violation of your proposed law? How do you legislate around
         | that? There are a thousand cat beds! They are all the same! The
         | store that doesn't take bribes to hype certain brands goes out
         | of business! And all we have left is Amazon! I mean, I guess
         | that's already happened, so ... what more do they want? Does
         | Amazon have no shame? What if they used their monopoly to sell
         | stuff honestly? Would their whole business collapse?
        
         | moolcool wrote:
         | > Hopefully degradation of user experience will curb it
         | somewhat.
         | 
         | Sometimes the ads even betray themselves. Like I, as a rule,
         | hate ads. I block them where I can, and where I can't, I do my
         | best to ignore them. But then you get instances where the ad
         | _is_ what you're actually looking for. Like if you search
         | Amazon for "iPhone", you get official first party iPhone stuff
         | from Apple, but they're sponsored listings. My proclivity to
         | skip ads would make me scroll right past the only quality
         | products on the whole page, into a slew of AliExpress level
         | garbage.
        
           | monetus wrote:
           | They have to buy their own keywords so that others aren't
           | first in the listings right? They don't want Samsung to be
           | the first thing you see. Hilarious and sad at the same time.
        
             | moolcool wrote:
             | Yeah, it's one of the things I hate most about the ad
             | ecosystem. The pro-ad argument is "they give the little guy
             | a kick at the can", but that's tremendous bullshit. Try an
             | example: Turn off adblock and search "Lejiled Wallet" (a
             | very small French company which makes nice leather
             | wallets). You'll get ads for much bigger companies (Fossil
             | and Belroy) in the sidebar, and those ads will follow you
             | all around the internet for months.
             | https://i.imgur.com/lAaAdGM.png
        
             | pohuing wrote:
             | The future is booking ads for other brands so they catch
             | the ire of the customer.
        
             | kyleplum wrote:
             | IMO the only thing that separates this from racketeering is
             | that it's technically legal.
        
           | z3c0 wrote:
           | I generally look at aggressive ads as a detractor to the
           | product. Money spent trying to bait me into making the
           | purchase is money not spent on improving the product. I'll
           | always pick the non-sponsored product with the highest
           | (written) reviews. I agree that we'll need to be even more
           | aggressive than advertisers, as their boundaries are pretty
           | much nonexistent.
           | 
           | For example, I'm an avid Sonic fan, but no amount of fan
           | service could get me to sit through the constant advertising
           | woven into the script. I'm going to just skip this franchise
           | entirely. Whatever happened to just slipping a sign in the
           | background?
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | Those are noble goals, but have close to zero chance of
         | happening, and they won't address the root of the problem.
         | 
         | > Search ads on shopping websites are just capitalism taken to
         | the natural end.
         | 
         | The issue is not just with search ads or shopping websites, but
         | advertising in general. It's the primary business model of the
         | modern web, and the main revenue stream for most Big Tech
         | corporations. Considering their symbiotic relationship with
         | governments, neither side has much incentive to change the
         | status quo. Some change is slowly happening, but I suspect it
         | will become _much_ worse until it gets better.
         | 
         | We're lucky that ads are still somewhat blockable. Wait until
         | browsers become WebAssembly interpreters, so that this isn't
         | possible anymore, or for XR to become mainstream, allowing
         | adtech to do much more invasive tracking and advertisers to buy
         | a chance to deliver ads straight to your eyeballs. Label me a
         | pessimist, but I don't see how any of this will be unavoidable
         | in the near future, other than by becoming a luddite.
        
         | ethbr0 wrote:
         | > _We need voters that vote for candidates that would support
         | the human right to freedom from manipulation from
         | corporations._
         | 
         | Donate $3 to the Presidential Election Fund every year on your
         | US taxes. It costs you nothing, is a single checkbox, and
         | redirects $3 of your taxes into the fund.
         | 
         | Candidates that take money from the fund have additional
         | (mostly good) limits placed on their spending.
         | 
         | It's not perfect, but it's free to do and creates an
         | alternative to lobbyist funding.
         | 
         | https://www.thoughtco.com/presidential-election-campaign-fun...
        
         | id wrote:
         | We don't see what they are not reporting.
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | Thankfully there are many other news organizations who aren't
           | owned by Bezos.
        
       | agentcoops wrote:
       | I'm part of the I'm sure infinitesimal and ever-shrinking portion
       | of Amazon's userbase who actually try to use the site to buy rare
       | and used books. Most annoying for my experience is that they
       | recently replaced what was in fact a best-in-class recommendation
       | engine, which lead to a lot of my purchases, with a totally
       | useless ad bar that displays universally terrible "related"
       | books. There's a world where after effectively cornering the
       | world book market they subsequently destroy it (and they of
       | course own and have effectively feature frozen competitors such
       | as abebooks and bookdespository).
        
         | iamacyborg wrote:
         | It seems buying rare and used books has mostly migrated to
         | Facebook groups and ebay, at least for the sorts of stuff I
         | collect.
        
         | protastus wrote:
         | I stopped ordering books from Amazon after twice receiving
         | books shipped loose in oversized boxes, with obviously
         | inadequate padding, leading to corners damaged in transit.
         | 
         | This would've been unthinkable in the old days (Amazon customer
         | since 1995).
         | 
         | I'm assuming you order from Amazon marketplace retailers who
         | you trust, and do their own shipping.
        
       | yalogin wrote:
       | Over the last few years Amazon has been overwhelmed by Chinese
       | goods and over time the search results has become similar to
       | aliexpress. I would have never heard the manufacturer's name and
       | will never remember them either. All of them have close to 5 star
       | rating and there is no way to even judge if they are any good.
       | You buy if you accept that. Feels like it's time for this to be
       | disrupted.
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | I buy my electronics from B&H Photo, or cut out the Amazon
         | middleman and get the Chinese stuff from AliExpress if it's not
         | time-critical. AliExpress customer service is also slow, but
         | fair in my experience.
        
         | russdill wrote:
         | And 8 other identical looking products listed under a different
         | manufacturer.
        
         | Beaver117 wrote:
         | Aliexpress products aren't bad. And although they're very cheap
         | at the source, I'm willing to pay a gigantic markup to get it
         | in 2 days with free refunds rather than 2 months.
        
           | fmajid wrote:
           | I've had recourse to AliExpress customer service in cases
           | where what was sent didn't match the product description or
           | was lost in transit. It was also slow because they have this
           | weirdly procedural arbitration process that feels like the
           | judiciary, but they reimbursed me.
        
           | shellfishgene wrote:
           | At least to Europe shipping times from Aliexpress continue to
           | get better, I often get stuff after a week now, mostly within
           | 3.
        
         | noncoml wrote:
         | When it came to shopping I used to blindly trust Amazon.
         | Wouldn't even check prices anywhere else.
         | 
         | Now, it's always the choice of last resort. I really don't like
         | it when I have to shop on Amazon.
         | 
         | It feels like a combination of AliExpress and eBay. Delivery
         | times are getting worse by the day too.
        
           | silisili wrote:
           | Came to say this. Some locations must still have it good, but
           | where I live in the US, delivery dates are 7 to 8 days.
           | Almost every retailer is way faster than Amazon.
        
           | avitous wrote:
           | I used to trust them a whole lot more, too. But of late it
           | seems Amazon is leaning toward a cesspool of price gouging,
           | and I've noticed a lot more of the presented results are
           | "Sponsored".
           | 
           | Along with that, I stream movies on my TV, running clients,
           | usually Netflix or Prime Video, on my xbox. Increasingly the
           | Amazon prime video client wants to present me with options to
           | "Rent or Buy" instead of free offerings (I am a Prime
           | subscriber after all, and seek to take advantage of the free
           | streaming offerings), sometimes a page of results will
           | contain nothing but pay-to-play offers.
        
             | fmajid wrote:
             | The iPad or browser version offer a "free to me" option.
             | Unfortunately they also count their ad-infested service as
             | "free to me".
             | 
             | In my experience Amazon has the best streaming service now.
             | There's nothing on Netflix I want to see and I'd have
             | cancelled the service a long time ago if it were not for my
             | wife and 10 year old daughter.
        
       | UltraViolence wrote:
       | The article speaks of a tipping point and has aided in pulling it
       | forward.
       | 
       | Unlimited greed is what eventually sinks a company. We saw it
       | with AltaVista in the '90's (when the search results were all
       | ads) and Google is slowly repeating this opening a space for a
       | competitor to jump into.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | > Unlimited greed is what eventually sinks a company. We saw it
         | with AltaVista in the '90's (when the search results were all
         | ads) and Google is slowly repeating this opening a space for a
         | competitor to jump into.
         | 
         | I'm not sure this is a helpful characterization. Greed is also
         | what helped the same companies get where they were before they
         | went to shit.
         | 
         | The problem is that you can only grow so far in a market before
         | the only way to keep the appearance of growth is to make your
         | product worse, either by producing it cheaper (like Toblerone)
         | or by monetizing it harder (e.g. ads in paid video
         | subscriptions).
        
           | ilyt wrote:
           | Well, the difference would be "we find a niche and make a
           | bank on it by being best at it" vs "we make a ton of money on
           | the niche, how we can make even more?". I.e. being happy that
           | you "made it" and continue to make the as good product vs
           | trying to squeeze everything out of it to deliver investor
           | returns.
           | 
           |  _Theoretically_ being too greedy like that should open niche
           | for competition with better product that 's less exploitative
           | but that is really hard if the near-monopolist on market is
           | big enough or the product is hard enough.
        
           | UltraViolence wrote:
           | Sure, greed is good. But unlimited greed will eventually
           | drive away customers as Amazon is illustrating very
           | conveniently (and AltaVista before it).
           | 
           | Google too needs to be vigilant that it's decreasing utility
           | isn't driving away users to a competitor.
        
           | danaris wrote:
           | There's been a shift in our culture over the past century or
           | so (though mainly, I think, since the 1980s) in how we look
           | at the purpose of a company.
           | 
           | It used to be that a fairly normal, mainstream company's
           | purpose and goals were along the lines of "We make a product
           | or provide a service, and doing that well enough/better than
           | our competition makes us decent money."
           | 
           | Nowadays, it seems to be almost expected that the way a
           | company operates is closer to "We are here to make as much
           | money as we possibly can. If that means we have to make a
           | product or provide a service, OK, but that's a necessary evil
           | to the process of making absolutely ungodly amounts of
           | money."
           | 
           | Google didn't get where it was before it went to shit because
           | of _greed_. They got there because of genuine technical
           | prowess, and a willingness to _sacrifice possible revenue_ to
           | provide an improved experience, with things like the bare-
           | bones main Google page (as compared to things like Yahoo!,
           | Altavista, and Infoseek when Google first appeared, which
           | were laden down with all kinds of crap).
           | 
           | When greed took over, they shifted from the former mindset to
           | the latter, and that's when things really started to go
           | downhill.
        
           | edgyquant wrote:
           | No innovation got them where they were
        
           | navane wrote:
           | There are always people working in these companies that are
           | trying to get a good product to a customer. These are slowly
           | replaced or overruled by A/B testers who want to maximize
           | profit. I think that process shifts the company from actually
           | doing a service, to greed.
        
             | t0suj4 wrote:
             | I would describe it as the company has changed its priority
             | from customer acquisition to customer monetization. When
             | the company starts tuning by touching only its monetization
             | knob, it slowly starts descending into death spiral.
             | Depending on the competition it can take weeks or decades.
        
             | numpad0 wrote:
             | And the problem is that the the snake has now reached its
             | tail.
             | 
             | Maybe there are specific conditions, like it might help
             | laundering or help deter competitors from entering their
             | website, whatever that this scheme has a net positive gain
             | for them, but this is insanity.
        
             | s1artibartfast wrote:
             | I dont think this is the whole picture. It is generally
             | true that selling products and making a profit is the goal
             | for both.
             | 
             | Optimizing the best result for each query can result in a
             | terrible result for the minority of shoppers for that
             | query. More importantly, it can lead to a terrible result
             | for the _majority_ of shoppers across many queries.
             | 
             | The problem is other considerations that A/B testing
             | metrics often leave out (Satisfaction in the long term, in
             | searches that dont lead to sale, and across multiple
             | changes)
             | 
             | That is to say, on average most shoppers might want cheap
             | shit for a given search. but sometimes, they might want a
             | different/better product and get frustrated.
             | 
             | If you over optimize for the typical use case, you might
             | still lose the typically user because they not typical in
             | every way and every day.
        
               | Rury wrote:
               | Not sure about A/B testers, but that is essentially the
               | issue. Steve Jobs even talked about it back in the 1990s,
               | about tech companies and markets of the 70s and 80s:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4VBqTViEx4
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | Yeah, it's like if you sell a multi-tool and realize that
               | 90% of the time people just use the screwdriver. AB
               | testing would tell you that you should make all the tools
               | a screwdriver, but then you would have a shit multi-tool
               | and no one would buy it except people that need a
               | screwdriver.
               | 
               | This is what Amazon has done. They took their Marketplace
               | and turned it into a search engine for the cheapest drop
               | shipped product
        
               | treis wrote:
               | At some point it crosses the line into fraud. Like look
               | at this listing:
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-49-inch-Odyssey-FreeSync-
               | LC49...
               | 
               | There's a little box that says:
               | 
               | >Protect your purchase
               | 
               | >Coverage for drops, spills and breakdowns (plans vary)
               | 
               | If you click through you'll see that the plan
               | specifically excludes drops and spills. Two of the three
               | things they advertise for.
               | 
               | Like that's just fraud and someone at Amazon green-lit
               | this knowing that it's just fraud. It's not optimization
               | gone haywire. It's discovering that you can make money
               | scamming people and not having any qualms about scamming
               | your customers.
        
         | technovader wrote:
         | Greed = Capitalism
        
       | tomxor wrote:
       | How are they identifying these as ads?
       | 
       | I really can't see any differences (which I suppose is the point
       | the article is making)... but if so, how are they confident what
       | the highlighted listings are ads?
        
       | stef25 wrote:
       | Bad:
       | 
       | - Fake products, including outrageously a Delonghi coffee machine
       | (paint came off the buttons after a few days and then the machine
       | just broke). - Chinese crap with brand names that sound computer
       | generated - Here in EU you'll get some product descriptions in
       | the wrong languages (Polish, Italian ... on the .fr domain), or
       | images that have Chinese text on them.
       | 
       | Good
       | 
       | - The refurbished / Amazon warehouse stuff is great. Just bought
       | 2x 27" computer screens at a price far, far lower than what any
       | other shop was offering. Same for a PS4 a couple years back.
       | Looking at doing the same for a television. Who cares it the
       | remote doesn't have batteries or some cable is missing. No other
       | store here in EU comes close to the prices Amazon has.
        
       | fijiaarone wrote:
       | Wait just a minute! Are you telling me that Amazon is showing
       | products that they are selling on their e-commerce website?
        
       | CosmicShadow wrote:
       | Scamazon just sucks now. It was once good, but every time I go to
       | use it I waste time and get frustrated. I now only seem to buy
       | stuff where the trade off on research vs going to store is not
       | worth it and buy their probably crappy prime brand batteries.
       | 
       | I've been floating like $100+ of amazon credits for months
       | because I keep getting damn gift cards and more credit from
       | returns. Sure there is things I kind of want, but I end up saving
       | it for things I need, and then when I waste time researching what
       | to buy on Amazon, I end up not buying it on Amazon because of
       | their awful fake reviews and cloned YGGFSS named brand items.
       | 
       | It's a real shame that brick-and-mortar stores don't realize
       | their advantage is that I'd rather pay more and drive to pick
       | something up TODAY than waste time waiting and risking garbage on
       | prime, yet they flood their own stores with "online seller
       | marketplace items" or nothing is ever in stock.
        
         | chrisbaker98 wrote:
         | > YGGFSS
         | 
         | What does this mean?
        
           | chihuahua wrote:
           | It was probably meant to be an example of the millions of
           | machine-generated nonsensical names that a certain kind of
           | 3rd party seller uses. Typically these names are a bit more
           | pronounceable - the algorithms that generate them usually
           | include some vowels.
           | 
           | Examples from a search for bike fenders: TAGVO, XINBOUS,
           | MEGHNA, NICEDACK, RBRL BRL, ENLEE, FETESNICE, JIVMEE
        
             | banana_giraffe wrote:
             | And sometimes the machine generated product descriptions
             | seem to have gone live seemingly without someone that
             | speaks English giving them a once-over:
             | 
             | https://imgur.com/a/kvvO7dM
        
           | aendruk wrote:
           | Nonsense all-caps throwaway brand name?
        
           | nicwolff wrote:
           | Wow this thread is the only Google result for "YGGFSS" that
           | isn't a catalog site.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | I used to like Best Buy but increasingly I am frustrated with
         | their wide but shallow product line. They stock grills and
         | washing machines and even stock one entry level mirrorless
         | camera but no lenses or quality accessories. Out of 10 parts I
         | need to build a PC they stock maybe 2. I think they kid
         | themselves into thinking I will drive there just to buy the 2
         | parts and then buy the rest online with somebody else but it
         | doesn't work that way. I was happy to be able to spend a credit
         | I had on a DVD of _The World of Susie Wong_ because I can't
         | count on them having particular movies.
         | 
         | AMZN is killing them based on the strength of their product
         | line but killing themselves because the product listings are
         | flooded with bogus results that you just don't get with
         | reputable but failing retailers.
        
       | cratermoon wrote:
       | What Shopping On Amazon Feels Like:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpxAvjD_30
        
         | Hackbraten wrote:
         | Not only hilarious but also extremely relevant. It's
         | essentially TFA in comedy form.
        
       | ozzythecat wrote:
       | Ads = revenue = promotions.
       | 
       | I was at Amazon for over a decade. Show YoY growth in terms of
       | revenue, you'll get a bigger empire. Sr. Managers become
       | Directors. Directors become VPs. The senior engineers who worked
       | on the low latency performance optimization becomes principals.
       | The tech program managers become principals as well.
       | 
       | All the other cogs in the chain either get burned out, managed
       | out, or they bounce to AWS, maybe Alexa.
       | 
       | All the analysis and commentary in this thread is interesting,
       | but there's nothing complex here. It's basic incentive structures
       | incentivizing undesirable outcomes.
        
       | nytesky wrote:
       | Have to say this is impressive commentary coming from Bezos owned
       | WP.
        
       | nblgbg wrote:
       | I really miss "customers who also brought" features. I used to
       | discover a ton of good books with that. Now it's all advertising.
       | The whole search results are advertising and recently they are
       | not relevant also any more.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | zug_zug wrote:
       | Time for somebody to make an alternative interface, like
       | teddit.com. I imagine this could be done with front-end code
       | only.
        
         | verdverm wrote:
         | CORS, unless it is run locally, plus you'll have to reverse
         | engineer the APIs. Might be easier to write a browser plugin
         | that improves the current UI
        
       | aenis wrote:
       | Interesting in how it resembles the situation in traditional
       | retail.
       | 
       | FMCG companies typically pay a lot of money in so called trade
       | funds to the likes of Walmart, Tesco, and others. One company I
       | worked for spent Approx 20pct of its topline a year on that -
       | double digit billions. Ostensibly, this is to place the product
       | on the right shelves, run promos and have the products featured
       | in the chains' newsletters.
       | 
       | The real reason is, however, efficient taxation. The "trade
       | funds" make all the profit for legacy retailers. Branded products
       | are sold at near zero, or sometimes - if allowed - negative
       | margins. The operating companies make near-zero taxable profits.
       | The marketing spend is typically channeled to different legal
       | entities than actual sales and taxed "efficiently". I think it
       | might be the same with Amazon.
        
       | notamy wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/YMyrH
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20221124034213/https://www.washi...
       | 
       | Note: Some parts of the archive don't render correctly? Unsure
       | why. You will get better results clearing cookies + localstorage
       | for washingtonpost.com.
        
       | Ruq wrote:
       | I find it ironic the Washington Post has this article.
        
       | donaldbough wrote:
       | After starting up at Amazon ( biased opinion), it really is
       | impressive to see the relentless customer focus. Even at the cost
       | of short term profit or wall street gains, they have historical
       | proof of putting the customer first.
       | 
       | Lots of Amazon ads? Sure. But they're generally useful, and the
       | teams building the "not as profitable e-commerce" will be making
       | something people love.
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | >Let me be clear: Advertising isn't necessarily bad...
       | 
       | Sure it is. It's legalized production of mass-insanity.
       | 
       | When communication isn't intended to fuck your mind we call it
       | "news" or "conversation" or something like that.
       | 
       | Advertising is most definitely 100% evil. The only reason anybody
       | says otherwise is because that implies all kinds of scary stuff
       | about our society and nobody wants to go there. Also, because
       | such statements offend our sponsors. And also, if you are in the
       | advertising business, talk like that makes you look like a real
       | Morlock.
       | 
       | I think that's crystal clear.
        
       | moolcool wrote:
       | It runs deeper than just everything being an ad. It's also
       | completely flooded with rebadged junk from dropshippers. A few
       | weeks ago, I was looking for a new whetstone, and this is what I
       | got when I searched Amazon
       | 
       | https://i.imgur.com/1Utp2dF.png
       | 
       | The results keep going like that. You see constant repetition of
       | the exact same units with slightly different branding, often with
       | the same stock photography, repeated for page after page. It used
       | to be that you could count on Amazon to give you pretty solid
       | results when you wanted something. It was great, it really took
       | the fuss out of shopping when you didn't have to do 10 google
       | searches when you needed to buy a USB cable or something. Now
       | Amazon is nothing more than AliExpress with faster shipping.
       | Shame.
        
         | treis wrote:
         | Interestingly enough that's cheaper on Amazon than AliExpress:
         | 
         | https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802919678760.html
         | 
         | ^ You have to click on the 1000/6000 grit to see the price of
         | $26.53.
         | 
         | Pretty much everything people buy is cheap Chinese crap anyhow.
        
           | arein3 wrote:
           | It's 12.33$ for me https://i.imgur.com/hWyQ466.png
        
             | treis wrote:
             | You're not looking at the full kit ones.
             | 
             | Interestingly enough though it shows me $16.70 for just the
             | stone. Maybe they're doing some price discrimination or
             | you're shipping to a cheaper place.
        
         | kennend3 wrote:
         | > Now Amazon is nothing more than AliExpress with faster
         | shipping. Shame.
         | 
         | This.
         | 
         | Once i realized what was taking place on amazon I simply moved
         | to AliExpress. I mean if i am going to get something from there
         | anyhow i might as well save the middleman fees and take the hit
         | on shipping.
         | 
         | I canceled my prime membership a while ago as well. I don't see
         | how amazon can continue to simply be a front end for AliExpress
         | for long. Wont most simply avoid the added fees and go to Ali
         | directly?
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | If you shop at Whole Foods Prime pays for itself.
        
           | jrs235 wrote:
           | But even their shipping (with Prime too!) is getting slower
           | and slower. Prime's selling point used to be free 2 day
           | shipping. Shipping is still "free" but many items take 4 days
           | (or more now).
        
             | thefourthchime wrote:
             | That might depend on where you live. I nearly always get
             | next-day or 2-day shipping. There are exceptions, but for
             | central Austin, it's pretty good.
        
             | DebtDeflation wrote:
             | >even their shipping (with Prime too!) is getting slower
             | 
             | Not only that. Try searching while in Incognito Mode and
             | you'll see the same products, sold by Amazon.com, without
             | Prime, for a few bucks cheaper than when you're logged in
             | and seeing them with "free" Prime shipping.
        
               | takoid wrote:
               | Does this only happen with an active Prime membership? I
               | tested a few search queries and didn't see the
               | inconsistencies you're describing.
        
               | DebtDeflation wrote:
               | I assume so, since I have a Prime membership and it knows
               | this when I'm logged in.
        
               | piva00 wrote:
               | Thanks for validating my assumption, I encountered this
               | twice and thought I was taking crazy pills. I don't even
               | shop on Amazon much, like once or twice a year...
        
             | zip1234 wrote:
             | Do you live in a city?
        
               | kennend3 wrote:
               | There are times i still use amazon and i actually bought
               | a few items on Tuesday.
               | 
               | Amazon's delivery date is friday? Want to guess where
               | amazon's distribution warehouse is? A few blocks away
               | from me.
               | 
               | The point you are attempting to make is unclear. If the
               | distribution hub is within walking distance from me, why
               | does it take days to ship?
        
               | mbreese wrote:
               | You're assuming that the product you ordered is at that
               | warehouse. It probably isn't. They can't store all
               | products at all locations. Even if that distribution
               | center ends up being the shipment origination site, the
               | product still probably had to move within the Amazon
               | network. Some of those things will move within the Amazon
               | network, some with external (trackable) carriers
               | (UPS/FedEx). And some things has restrictions on the
               | method of transport. If there is a lithium battery
               | anywhere in the device, it travels by ground.
               | 
               | Also -- if you're in the US, today is a holiday and
               | nothing will move. So today and yesterday had/has limited
               | movement between distribution centers. And as we get
               | closer to Christmas, the entire network will start to
               | approach saturation.
               | 
               | There are many reasons why things don't always ship as
               | fast as you'd like them to.
        
               | kennend3 wrote:
               | Speaking of assumptions lets review yours for a moment.
               | 
               | 1) I am not assuming the products are from different
               | warehouses. I know this for a fact. Look at my other post
               | and i stated one item is being shipped from a warehouse
               | ~120 KM away. I will guess the rest is from the local
               | warehouse? Once amazon updates the shipping details
               | (probably friday AM) it will show me where it came from..
               | 
               | 2) I'm in Canada and it is not a holiday here so it is
               | unclear why "today and yesterday had/has limited movement
               | between distribution centers."
               | 
               | 3) Amazon Canada rarely uses other carriers anymore. I
               | cant tell you when the last time anyone i know received
               | something that didnt use their own in-house shipping
               | service so you cant really blame "UPS/Fedex"
        
               | 13of40 wrote:
               | A few months ago I ordered a dongle from Amazon to attach
               | a floppy drive to a modern computer via USB. For some
               | reason this weird, niche little thing was eligible for
               | Amazon Essentials same day delivery. Apparently every
               | Amazon warehouse has a dusty box of these things in the
               | corner that they're still trying to unload?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | I am sure your congressman gets same day or next day
               | shipping in DC, though.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Amazon quotes delivery times up to two weeks for me for
               | prime now.
               | 
               | And it doesn't even ship (UPS) until a few days before
               | the delivery date. And they _still_ don't do a good job
               | combining orders.
        
             | anifru wrote:
             | > Shipping is still "free" but many items take 4 days (or
             | more now).
             | 
             | I've had the opposite experience. Everything comes within 1
             | day. Some items even come within 12 hours (overnight
             | shipping delivering at 7am)
        
             | MikePlacid wrote:
             | Where I live (a summerhouse in a small county seat in
             | mountains) - Walmart, Bestbuy, Homedepot and others ship
             | faster and usually for free even for small orders.
             | 
             | Walmart also provides all-paper packaging (they seem to
             | have worked hard on developing it) - so you can burn /
             | recycle packaging without say peeling off stuck plastic
             | tape first.
        
             | chrisbaker98 wrote:
             | Anecdotal, but I haven't noticed this in the UK. Pretty
             | much everything I order from Amazon still arrives within 24
             | hours, and I live in the countryside (albeit in the
             | southeast so still not far from London.)
             | 
             | OTOH I still notice the problem that other people have
             | mentioned - that practically everything on Amazon these
             | days is the same repackaged Chinese dropshipped garbage.
             | Which is one reason I shop on Amazon far less than I used
             | to.
        
               | martinald wrote:
               | It's just the distances involved. Amazon UK can get
               | everything from any warehouse in the UK to your local
               | depot for last mile delivery overnight, if not faster.
               | 
               | In the US unless you air freight ($$$) it you cannot rely
               | on getting stock from warehouse A (say in NY) to
               | warehouse K (say near LA) overnight. This then means you
               | have to keep a lot more "duplicate" inventory sitting
               | around various places as you cannot just in time move it,
               | which is also extremely expensive.
               | 
               | I imagine the reports of shipping delays in the US are
               | caused by Amazon intentionally trying to reduce the
               | amount of inventory on hand and/or using less air
               | freight.
        
               | GekkePrutser wrote:
               | This is also happening in Europe now on an EU scale.
               | Often something takes a couple days because it goes from
               | Germany to Spain or something. They don't say that's the
               | reason but you can tell from the stickers on the
               | products. I guess they don't do this anymore for the UK
               | though because of all the customs hassles since Brexit.
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | I've not noticed a major difference in the UK from before
               | Brexit. Some products would come from elsewhere in Europe
               | but most would be local then too. London alone has
               | several Amazon depots, so lots of things are same day
               | delivery here.
               | 
               | Maybe it's down to competition - for lots of products I'd
               | go elsewhere if they didn't offer at least next day
               | delivery.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | I've never managed to connect with America tales of the
               | length of shipping. Almost (99%) everything I order from
               | amazon arrives when it says, most of which is next day. I
               | live in the country, but like most UK citizens fairly
               | close to a major trunk road (10 miles or so).
               | 
               | Of course I'm sure things are different if you live on
               | Mull or Fair Isle, but for the vast majority of us it
               | seems reliable
               | 
               | The _quality_ of what you get from amazon is of course
               | somewhat different.
        
               | 13of40 wrote:
               | I live in the Seattle area, so Amazon shipping is pretty
               | fast and accurate, but there have been a few times when
               | things were shipped but they apparently just disappeared
               | in transit. One time it was a car part and it got close
               | enough that it was on a truck from the city 20 miles
               | north of here, then it just dropped off the radar and
               | they refunded my money.
               | 
               | Then every once in a while you get something that takes a
               | month to deliver, comes in a package covered with customs
               | stamps, and is roughly the size and shape of what was
               | ordered but wrong. I ordered a titanium tube one time -
               | think the dimensions of a reusable drinking straw - and
               | after a month got a solid titanium rod. "Mail it back and
               | we'll give you a refund." There's a bit of unfair
               | asymmetry there, friend, since you're mailing stuff to
               | the US all day and I wouldn't have the faintest clue how
               | to send something to China, and I'm guessing it's going
               | to cost far more than the thing I'm returning.
               | 
               | But I'm an addict and I don't see myself cancelling Prime
               | any time soon.
        
               | cratermoon wrote:
               | The difference between the US and the UK is size and the
               | sheer remoteness of some places, even small cities.
               | Unless you've been there, it's hard to grasp.
               | 
               | I've driven around large parts of the western US and
               | there's a LOT of empty space. I don't know how many
               | shipping centers Amazon has in the UK, but I am about
               | 99.999% sure that there's areas of the US larger than all
               | of the British Isle that are served by a single warehouse
               | and shipping center.
               | 
               | So the variability in the US is going to be very high.
               | Some places that happen to be near a shipping center, or
               | two, will have consistent on-time delivery. Other places
               | that are distant from one, and may have a high mountain
               | pass that's dicey in winter or closed because of
               | wildfires in the summer between them and that single
               | center, are going to have problems.
        
               | arcticfox wrote:
               | I took a week off work once and walked from one side of
               | England to the other, it was awesome. That would get me
               | almost to the neighboring city where I'm from in the
               | western US.
        
               | jsmith99 wrote:
               | Hadrian's wall?
        
               | martinald wrote:
               | According to this about 50 in the UK: https://en.wikipedi
               | a.org/wiki/List_of_Amazon_locations#Unite...
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | There's a high degree of bias in who we hear from too, I
               | think. Most European countries have a grand total of zero
               | Amazon depots, so there are plenty of European countries
               | where the delivery is not fast either, but I rarely see
               | people from those countries talking about it for whatever
               | reason. I'm guessing in large part because those
               | countries also does not have a local Amazon site, so it
               | feels less surprising because if you order from Amazon
               | you're unambiguously ordering from abroad, with different
               | expectations.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | Sure, but given that the majority of people in America,
               | especially the ones I see complaining about amazon, are
               | going to be living within an hour or so of a major city
               | -- San Francisco, Seatle, Austin, New York, LA, I'm not
               | sure how the difficulties of delivering to Hyder, AK or
               | Las Vegas, NM factor in.
        
               | kennend3 wrote:
               | I think what many people outside North America fail to
               | grasp is the size of north America.
               | 
               | To give you an idea:
               | 
               | I live just outside Toronto (Ontario, Canada) and if i
               | want to drive east to the next province (Quebec) it will
               | take me 4 hours to cover the 450 KM. If i want to go to
               | the next province to the west (Manitoba) It will take me
               | 20 hours to cover the 2,000 KM. So to cut across Ontario
               | you are looking at something like 2,450 KM
               | 
               | This is just my province of Ontario. The other provinces
               | are not as large, but the country is vast when looking at
               | Europe.
               | 
               | Using google maps, i can drive from the south
               | (footbridge) to the north (ChargePlace,Scotland) and this
               | ~ 1,200 KM?
               | 
               | In the case of my very simple order, one item is being
               | shipped from 120KM away?
               | 
               | How often do you order something simple and one of the
               | distribution hubs is 120KM away from you? There is a
               | massive 1 million square foot hub a few blocks away but i
               | guess it isnt big enough to hold what i wanted?
               | 
               | I hope this provides some context for you.
        
               | NikolaNovak wrote:
               | HaH, exactly.
               | 
               | 25 years ago, I lived in a city of Rijeka. You could
               | start from Croatia; enter & drive through _entire country
               | of Slovenia_ ; enter into Italy and go shopping into
               | Trieste, two countries over - in 75km.
               | 
               | Now I'm in the Greater Toronto Area, and my best friend
               | lives about the same distance, officially in the same
               | city or metro.
               | 
               | There's just over two thousand kilometers between the
               | capitals of two neighbouring _provinces_ in Canada
               | (Winnipeg  & Toronto). Or you could go through dozen
               | countries, with all of their states and provinces in
               | Europe for same distance (e.g. Geneva to Istanbul or
               | similar).
               | 
               | Distances are vastly different and people's attitude
               | toward them as well - what is daily commute in GTA used
               | to be a yearly vacation pilgrimage in my childhood :)
        
               | kennend3 wrote:
               | > what is daily commute in GTA used to be a yearly
               | vacation pilgrimage in my childhood :)
               | 
               | This is something Europeans also overlook.
               | 
               | I use to commute to Toronto every day. 100KM return trip
               | daily, 500KM a week...
               | 
               | I think Most Europeans would be surprised to know we have
               | a train system which basically travels back and forth
               | from Hamilton to Oshawa all day long.. 127KM one way.
               | Basically the Width of England at the more narrow part
               | and yet we consider this a "greater Toronto area" train
               | system.
               | 
               | People in Toronto dont think about how there are
               | countries which would fit in this distance, Europeans
               | dont think about how a daily passenger train service
               | would cross the country dozens and dozens of times each
               | day.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | 100km return, or 30 miles each way, that's not far at
               | all. I used to drive 50 miles/80km each way into London 4
               | days a week when I worked in an office. My wife still
               | does a 100km return trip to work. I have colleagues that
               | commute 7 days in 14 on a 250km round trip into West
               | London.
               | 
               | Your 127km one way train is about the same as the new
               | Reading-Shenfield Cross London service which runs 6 times
               | an hour 18 hours a day (well will do from next year), and
               | less than the 160km Bedford-Brighton Thameslink service.
               | It's pretty much the "Greater London Area", although that
               | term is of course steeped in politics. The Paris RER D
               | line is 190km and runs 466 trains a day, and is a
               | "greater Paris area" train system
               | 
               | The Greater Toronto Area has broadly the same population
               | as the Frankfurt Rhine-Main area, but is only half the
               | area.
               | 
               | The "Slovenia is only 75km wide" claim is meaningless.
               | Greenwich, CT to Oakland NJ is 75km and crosses the
               | _entire state of New York_ , a state with 10 times the
               | population of Slovenia.
               | 
               | Indeed talking about New Jersey and Slovenia, they're a
               | similar size, but NJ has about 5 times the population of
               | Slovenia.
               | 
               | If something works for Slovenia, why doesn't it work for
               | New Jersey?
               | 
               | So why is Toronto so small compared with Europe?
               | 
               | It's not a Geography problem, the challenges of serving
               | the tiny number of people that like in rural North Dakota
               | are a cruch to hide America's other infrastructure
               | failings.
        
             | manicennui wrote:
             | This is heavily dependent on location. I receive almost
             | everything in two days or less. It is extremely common to
             | get things the next day or even the same day. I'm in the
             | Chicago suburbs.
        
             | ThunderSizzle wrote:
             | Delivery has never been faster for me. Most things arrive
             | in less than a day now.
             | 
             | But some things do take longer. I guess it depends on stock
             | levels.
        
               | kennend3 wrote:
               | The issue isnt just stock levels, it is stock levels at a
               | specific distribution hub.
               | 
               | As i posted i ordered a few items on tuesday and delivery
               | will be friday.
               | 
               | One of the items tracking details shows me that it is
               | being shipped from a city ~ 120KM away yet there is a
               | massive 1,000,000 square foot hub within waking distance
               | from me??
               | 
               | Tracking hasn't updated to show me where the rest of the
               | stuff is being shipped from so i can speak to the entire
               | order.
               | 
               | This gets to the CORE issue with amazon. Because i no
               | longer have prime my stuff is almost intentionally held
               | back to encourage me to get prime?
               | 
               | It will not surprise me at all to see that when shipping
               | is finally updated the other items on my list come from
               | the local hub.
               | 
               | Not all hubs hold all items and because of this your
               | shipping times can fluctuate.
        
               | sweezyjeezy wrote:
               | Agreed - live in London, and often receive things within
               | 12 hours of purchase.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | And even that is not guaranteed. Lost of secondary sellers on
           | their 'marketplace'. I order lipton tea a week ago and it's
           | still not shipped.
           | 
           | I don't remember how this is called, something like a
           | honeymoon period. Most of the web love bombed us with
           | unsustainable (loss leaders like) offers until they got
           | everybody hooked and now they rely on habit, laziness and
           | reduced competition. It's somehow quite a shame.
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | > I don't remember how this is called, something like a
             | honeymoon period.
             | 
             | I think you mean "blatant worldwide market manipulation"?
             | 
             | Dumping products until the competition is bankrupt and then
             | using your monopoly to crush the consumers is a practice as
             | old as commerce.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | > Now Amazon is nothing more than AliExpress with faster
           | shipping. Shame.
           | 
           | On Alibaba, you get business background info, whether it's a
           | manufacturer or a reseller, a picture of the factory, info
           | about whether someone checked out the factory, what
           | certifications the product has, and how long it takes them to
           | respond to inquiries. Amazon doesn't have any of that.
           | 
           | On Alibaba, search for "outlet strip". You can check
           | "Verified supplier", "trade assurance" and "UL certified" to
           | filter out the junk. Some good low-priced outlet strips show
           | up. Amazon doesn't have any of that.
           | 
           | Alibaba is supposed to be B2B, but many items have a minimum
           | order size of 1 or 2. If Alibaba had a "who retails this"
           | link for products sold only in large quantities, they'd be
           | more useful than Amazon. Often you can look on Aliexpress for
           | the matching item.
        
             | burntwater wrote:
             | I'm curious, do you actually trust those certifications?
             | I'm wary of the validity of them, but don't know how to
             | verify if they're authentic. Thinking mostly of UL
             | certification.
        
               | Animats wrote:
               | You can check the UL number on a product and get the
               | certification info and company info. This is harder than
               | it used to be on the UL site. You have to register for a
               | free account.
        
             | otikik wrote:
             | Unless there's some kind of third-party checking process,
             | that only means that their seller forms have those extra
             | fields.
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | And you can get a long-term relationship with a seller,
             | because you know that the product you got was actually
             | delivered by them.
        
           | lm28469 wrote:
           | The only pro of amazon is that you can contact them months
           | after the purchase and still get a free replacement/refund.
           | With aliexpress I doubt they'd refund you even if you
           | received a bag of dirt instead of your product
        
             | fvold wrote:
             | In my experience, Ali Express is absolutely 100% a buyers
             | market, in every single way. I've bought random junk with a
             | somewhat long fulfillment time, and contacted the seller
             | just to politely ask about a time frame without in any way
             | indicating dissatisfaction, and received groveling
             | responses begging me to not open a dispute with Ali.
        
             | russelg wrote:
             | AliExpress also has strong buyer protections, which you
             | would have seen had you ever ordered from there. You have
             | to confirm delivery for every order else the seller doesn't
             | get the money.
        
               | Firmwarrior wrote:
               | Half the time I order something from AliExpress, it's
               | worthless junk that isn't what I wanted or way out of
               | spec, and the confirmation thing you're talking about was
               | a lot more limited than you're implying
               | 
               | To be fair, though, said worthless junk was like 1/5th
               | the price it'd be in the USA, so it was still worth the
               | gamble
               | 
               | the only major issue I have with AliExpress is how hard
               | they make it to log in
        
           | aceazzameen wrote:
           | AliExpress hasn't fully replaced Amazon for me yet. But I
           | definitely shop at AliExpress more often now. I don't care if
           | shipping takes longer. It's pennies compared to Amazon, which
           | makes a difference when the quality of the items are a
           | mystery. And for name brand items, I just use Costco, Target,
           | and Best Buy unless Amazon has a better sale.
        
         | lightedman wrote:
         | I had roughly the same experience looking for diamond pads for
         | my block on amazon.
         | 
         | I ended up giving up and went and built my own two-wheel wet
         | diamond grinding machine.
         | 
         | Bonus: I can cut rocks as well as sharpen my knives down to 1/8
         | micron.
        
         | paulcole wrote:
         | I don't see why you wouldn't just spend the $21.99 and get the
         | Amazon's Choice one and be done with it? It's like you're
         | looking to be annoyed in a situation that you could be done
         | with in 5 minutes.
        
         | dspillett wrote:
         | You used to be able to filter for just things sold by Amazon,
         | but that vanished some time ago. Not that a "fulfilled by
         | amazon" filter would do much these days because of how much of
         | other sellers stock there is commingled in their warehouses.
         | Same for the "prime" filter that is present if you subscribe to
         | that, it filters out a lot of junk but far from all of it.
        
           | losteric wrote:
           | Filter by seller is still available
        
             | dspillett wrote:
             | I see options to filter by brand including a separate "out
             | brands" option, but that isn't the same unless I'm looking
             | for a specific brand rather than "just not cheap & grotty
             | drop-shipped crap thankyouverymuch".
             | 
             | The usefulness of the brand filter seems to vary greatly by
             | product. For instance when searching for SATA SSDs it only
             | offers "Seagate, Crucial, Western Digital, Samsung".
        
               | morsch wrote:
               | I "just" had to select a few random other filters like
               | "New" and the product category and suddenly the seller
               | filter magically appeared.
               | 
               | The search function was always capricious like that, from
               | the get-go. Presumably there's method to that madness.
        
             | GekkePrutser wrote:
             | Here in Spain it definitely isn't.
        
             | rescbr wrote:
             | It's usually hidden, so much that I've captured the query
             | string parameter that represents its filter for my
             | country's Amazon.
             | 
             | Fortunately there are few marketplace sellers, so it
             | doesn't annoy me so much compared to Amazon US.
        
         | Cloudef wrote:
         | There's lots of these scams where they sell some non-branded
         | goods with lots of reviews (with videos) from paid SNS
         | influencers. Sometimes they may sell something completely else
         | but change the listing completely (becomes obvious from the
         | reviews again). When you see a lot of similar listing for the
         | same product or from same store, it's giant red flag to not buy
         | it.
         | 
         | Sometimes these goods may be good, but often or not they are
         | low quality, have obvious defects or break down after few weeks
         | / months of use.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Did you know you can get an 11 Terabyte hard drive for $90 on
           | Amazon? Wow:
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/External-Portable-11000GB-
           | Compatible-...
           | 
           | (Um, yeah. And look at the reviews.)
        
             | Cloudef wrote:
             | Some more examples, I recently needed new hair dryer as my
             | old one started throwing spars This "SALONIA" hair dryer is
             | being pushed by paid influencers in japan, however based on
             | the few critical reviews and their pictures, it does not
             | look like the quality is good
             | https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/SALONIA-Speedy-Negative-
             | Lightw...
             | 
             | Then there is this shady one with multiple amazon listings,
             | similarly bait and switch, reviews are odd
             | https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/B0BJPWNZQQ
             | https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/B0BJDVZLYC
             | https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/B0BBB77M9C
             | https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/B0BJQ8MBMB
             | 
             | The products may actually be somewhat decent, but based on
             | the tactics involved and the shady reviews, I wouldn't put
             | my money on something that can shock you or burn your house
             | down, so I eventually just went with reputable panasonic
             | one.
        
           | TrueGeek wrote:
           | And they don't care about the paid reviews either. I
           | contacted them saying a seller mailed me offering $50 cash
           | via PayPal for a 5 star review. The chat agent replied with
           | the "contact seller" link since I was unhappy. They had no
           | interest in the photo of the bribe sent to me. I don't even
           | know why the seller has my contact info since the item was
           | shipped by Amazon.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | The other thing I noticed is that these thousands of identical
         | products have seemingly randomly generated all-caps brand names
         | like BHHSRE, VHYXZY, XIOU, DAUGHE, JXMOX, LANMU, IBERLS,
         | GMJYC... (yes, these are all actual brands I've seen on
         | Amazon). It's like someone is randomly generating millions of
         | brand/product combinations to deliberately flood Amazon.
        
           | EForEndeavour wrote:
           | It may already exist, but I want to create a simple regex-
           | based browser plugin that suppresses Amazon search results if
           | the product name or seller contains 4-7 consecutive
           | capitalized letters. Call it LESSAMZNSPAM or something.
        
             | xvello wrote:
             | It exists already, as a uBlockOrigin rules generator:
             | https://letsblock.it/filters/amazon-products
             | 
             | You just need to write the regexp.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | vannevar wrote:
         | Amazon's business model has shifted from selling goods to
         | consumers to selling consumers to anonymous Chinese
         | manufacturers.
        
         | simonsarris wrote:
         | Highly recommend Shapton stones and buying them from Lee Valley
         | 
         | https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/tools/shapton-sharpening-sto...
        
           | kolbe wrote:
           | I have the shapton 12,000, and I'm actually pretty
           | disappointed, but thise lee valley prices are better than
           | what i paid at woodcraft.
        
           | techas wrote:
        
             | LoganDark wrote:
             | There's a button for this.
        
               | jonsen wrote:
               | But we wouldn't know then.
        
               | delijati wrote:
               | +1 ;)
        
           | moolcool wrote:
           | I had a look at those, but I ended up going with the KDS
           | 1000/6000. I'm still new to using it, but it works great!
        
             | morsch wrote:
             | For the record, so does the "KUNQUN" (ie. gibberish) brand
             | whetstone I bought on Amazon a few years ago.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | Not sure about the faster shipping.
         | 
         | Maybe if you live in a town with a Cheesecake Factory (tracer
         | for retail competition) you get two day shipping with Prime but
         | if you live a little further out, two day shipping probably
         | went out during the pandemic. This is not about the feasibility
         | of AMZN offering it to you because it is frequently unavailable
         | in the same zip code as their warehouse.
         | 
         | Every other retailer seems to get me things in two days or less
         | but I get packages from Japan faster than from the AMZN
         | warehouse that is a 3 hour drive away. They must be spending
         | the money they saving on shipping on Alexa or something.
        
         | jason-phillips wrote:
         | > I was looking for a new whetstone
         | 
         | The King whetstone on the bottom right is legit if you want to
         | freehand. However, I recommend something like an Edge Pro if
         | you have quality chefs knives, etc.
        
           | moolcool wrote:
           | I actually had a Lansky kit, but I found it really fiddly and
           | awkward to use. I practiced for a while on a crappy old
           | knife, but after getting the hang of it, I'm much happier
           | using a proper whetstone.
        
         | gauddasa wrote:
         | I was looking for earphones and same products were repeated on
         | 900 pages, with 20 to 25 entries listed per page. The odds of
         | finding a useful product in this ocean of repetition is then
         | about 0.1%. I must have clicked for 30 minutes to see the
         | extent of invasion. It was so exhausting and dispiriting that
         | since then (8 months ago), I have not visited Amazon anymore.
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | I was about to say when I saw the end of your comment, that
         | looks very much like the AliExpress experience. You get cheap
         | stuff, but you gamble on them being a fake.
        
           | moolcool wrote:
           | This case isn't even fake-- it's stuff that's either
           | unbranded, or with a new brand made up from whole cloth.
        
           | moonchrome wrote:
           | AliExpress isn't even cheap for what you're actually getting,
           | but it is cheaper than Amazon if you're dumpster diving.
           | 
           | The reason I say it isn't cheap is because when I ignore the
           | fake labels and look at actual goods delivered equivalents
           | can be bought locally for similar price (sometimes cheaper,
           | sometimes more expensive) without insane wait time and with
           | warrenty.
        
             | akvadrako wrote:
             | Depends what you are buying. You can often find things
             | which are perfectly fine quality but too niche for
             | westerners to sell near cost, like electrical and plastic
             | components, basic tools, cables, etc.
        
             | Cloudef wrote:
             | For spare / repair parts aliexpress unfortunately is still
             | the heaven. Sure you have to be really careful who you
             | order from, but sadly the modern world hates selling spare
             | parts and loves e-waste (especially for smartphones, it
             | used to be different before ...).
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | Or eBay. I'm offloading a bunch of random bike parts, and
               | yeah, somebody out there needs a Shimano XYZ-123 that was
               | last built in 1994 (and doesn't care to figure out the
               | modern replacement).
        
         | wirthjason wrote:
         | Niche items are pretty much a miss on Amazon. I buy a lot of
         | things on Amazon but as a hobbyist cook and knife collector
         | something like whetstones are much better purchased at a
         | specialty retailer. I trust a shop like
         | japaneseknifeimports.com a lot more than Amazon. These shops
         | cater to the community and the mutual success of the community
         | and the businesses are important.
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | And random components... you'll have better luck on eBay.
           | Need a P key for you random laptop keyboard, 1000 5mm LEDs or
           | usb-a cable, male on both ends, straight and right-angle?
           | Gonna have better luck on eBay.
           | 
           | And then the actually unique stuff. I'm buying odd lots of
           | used postage stamps. I'm sure as a seller doing one-offs,
           | even if it's a common item, eBay is the way to go.
           | 
           | Amazon has improved a lot, but eBay still king on that.
        
           | moolcool wrote:
           | That's true, but the problem I mention persists with a lot of
           | normal searches too. Like search for a 3.5mm cable, a USB C
           | dock, or a power bank. You'll get a whole lot of cheap
           | garbage from oddball brands.
        
         | daveguy wrote:
         | The ones that bother me the most are the re-purposed catalog
         | entries. They will have 2,000 reviews, solid 4.7 score, but
         | when you look at the reviews, half of the reviews are for a
         | different item. If there are any out of place reviews I avoid
         | it. Practically, it means sorting by highest reviews gives junk
         | first. I don't know if it's a matter of not monitoring, not
         | caring, or not being able to keep up. The fact that there isn't
         | an easy and obvious way to report a listing and review /
         | listing shift is apparently permitted means they aren't trying
         | to keep up.
        
         | namdnay wrote:
         | When did you do the query for that screenshot? If it was today
         | the delivery dates seem a bit short for dropshipping
        
         | dimitrios1 wrote:
         | That King whetstone is good, I have it and use it.
        
           | Edd314159 wrote:
           | This comment is why I still use Amazon, even though it has
           | indeed become a catalogue where 90% of the listed products
           | are junk. Because that other 10% are legit brands, and when
           | you want the legit brand, it's still very convenient and
           | often* cheaper than other retailers. You just have to wade
           | through the crap to find the real stuff.
           | 
           | (*I said _often_, meaning I concede that it is sometimes
           | actually not cheaper: please resist the urge to provide
           | counter-examples, I know of their pricing trickery!)
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | But Amazon commingles inventory, so how do you know you are
             | receiving the branded item you want and not a counterfeit
             | item that another seller sent to Amazon?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | katbyte wrote:
               | That's why I stopped buying things that matter from them,
               | but Walmart Best Buy and home depot are chasing the same
               | profits allowing "market place sellers" - we need to hold
               | these stores liable and accountable for everything sold
               | on the site.
               | 
               | I usually check things when they arrive pretty throughly
               | no matter who I buy from and I hate how I have to waste
               | my time doing it
        
               | Edd314159 wrote:
               | I dunno, I've never had a problem with counterfeit
               | products on Amazon. I avoid third party sellers though
               | (even if "fulfilled by Amazon") so that's probably why.
               | Buying direct from Amazon hasn't resulted in anything
               | fishy for me yet.
        
           | moolcool wrote:
           | I ended up getting the KDS 1000/6000. I don't know enough
           | about sharpening to have an informed opinion, but I can say
           | that it works fantastic for me.
        
           | dna_polymerase wrote:
           | I trust this comment more than 100% of Amazon reviews. Go
           | figure.
        
           | Kubuxu wrote:
           | Yeah, King for entry level is great, Suehiro Cerax is a mid
           | level upgrade to it.
           | 
           | IMO 6000 is too fine for majority of Western kitchen knifes
           | and most non-expensive Japanese knifes. I would go with 1000
           | and 3000-4000.
        
           | YZF wrote:
           | I was just going to say the same thing. IIRC it's Japanese.
        
       | roflyear wrote:
       | You would think that a third party could curate Amazon listings
       | and make a lot of money on affiliate links.
       | 
       | But part of me thinks the problem is not just digging it is that
       | many vendors moved off Amazon in general.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | Even if you curate listings you can't fix Amazon's inventory
         | commingling. And, as with other review services, curation would
         | hit conflicts of interest if it got popular as less scrupulous
         | operators would be happy to pay more to have their product
         | listed than consumers would pay for reliable curation.
        
       | rzimmerman wrote:
       | Watching my parents get duped by Amazon results is maddening.
       | They're used to being able to trust a retailer or at least some
       | consequences for scams and poor quality. People less scam-savvy
       | than myself get understandably confused by "Amazon recommend" or
       | a slightly lower price. But the minute I search for something on
       | Amazon a dread comes over me of "here we go". My danger center
       | kicks in and I have to keep your wits about me. It's a symptom of
       | our (American at least) obsession with getting "the best deal" no
       | matter what and it's just awful.
        
         | Guest9081239812 wrote:
         | I visited my family the other month and my mother was searching
         | for a product. I told her it's likely available on Amazon and
         | opened the website. When I started scrolling she started
         | commenting on the prices and how she can buy some of the
         | products for 10x less in the store. I then explained to her
         | that unlike a store, Amazon prices are mostly meaningless, and
         | the site will have the identical product selling at 10
         | different price points.
         | 
         | People don't have to worry about that problem when they walk
         | into a Walmart. They know the pricing has been carefully
         | reviewed before the product touches the shelves. They know
         | they're not going to see two identical products at Walmart with
         | different stamped logos selling for $5 and $30. There's a level
         | of trust you can buy any item and it's a fair value.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pkrotich wrote:
       | Ad and junk... I recently ordered speakers and I got broken ones
       | that looked like it was rescued from a bin / dumpster.
        
       | stankbear wrote:
       | Always interesting when WaPo writes about Amazon.
        
         | fefe23 wrote:
         | That was my first reaction as well but then I realized I can't
         | actually read the article as Wapo gave me a paywall nagscreen
         | that had no X button.
         | 
         | Might as well not have written the article in the first place.
         | 
         | Media is eating itself. And then they are all STUNNED to find
         | out that Fox News has more readers then them. You know who else
         | doesn't bombard you with paywall nagscreen shit? Infowars!
         | Breitbart.
        
         | pydry wrote:
         | It's a bit like that scene in Citizen Kane where he pens a
         | scathing review of his wife's singing because he realizes that
         | _everybody_ knows and any further pretense will only humiliate
         | him further.
        
       | Justsignedup wrote:
       | I just tried using it with/without uBlock Origin. Holy shit is
       | the experience different. Every single person on earth needs
       | uBlock Origin.
        
       | pupppet wrote:
       | Gutsy article by WaPo considering its owner.
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | And they even provided a spokesperson to speak on record for
         | it. Awfulness of the ads notwithstanding, I'm definitely
         | impressed that Bezos let this run.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | I worked IT at a Gannett-owned newspaper. Reporting negative
         | news about Gannett was one of the reporters' joys.
        
       | toofy wrote:
       | about 6 months ago i just stopped ordering physical products
       | online entirely.
       | 
       | i noticed that i was needing to return way too much of the stuff
       | i ordered.
       | 
       | clothes sizes were completely wrong or the material was just
       | cheap.
       | 
       | cords and other accessories were cheap or just plain the wrong
       | item.
       | 
       | household items _really_ didn't match the pictures. scale was all
       | wrong, etc...
       | 
       | it's just so much easier to walk into a store, actually touch the
       | product and literally walk away with it immediately knowing that
       | it's what i wanted.
       | 
       | it's also just nice to be out and about.
       | 
       | i suppose im lucky that i live in a populated area and have
       | physical stores i can go to tho. a lot of people don't have that
       | option.
       | 
       | it really is frustrating how low online shopping has sunk. but
       | the amount of deception shops have turned to online is just an
       | awful experience.
        
       | coding123 wrote:
       | These aren't the same thing as ads. It's paid placement, same
       | thing happens in your local grocery store.
        
       | alangibson wrote:
       | It's the same problem on German Amazon too.
       | 
       | Results are loaded up with so much junk that I've started to
       | wonder if there is a good arbitrage opportunity here. Basically
       | filter out the garbage and fake reviews in your own curated
       | search and recommendation site. Get paid via Amazon affiliate
       | program.
        
       | syliconadder wrote:
       | I think most comments here are America centric where Amazon
       | might've peaked. Even without Prime, Amazon has been the best
       | e-commerce site I've used in Europe or India. The customer
       | support itself warrants the price they ask for and it's usually
       | the cheapest in the market. It is possible that it will head the
       | same direction with market saturation but for now the promise
       | still lives up.
        
       | chrisan wrote:
       | I don't mind the ads, they are clearly labeled "sponsored".
       | 
       | What I hate is all the fake reviews influencing my choice. You
       | buy something highly reviewed then receive some giftcard/offer or
       | something in the packaging saying to leave a review and get
       | something in return.
       | 
       | Now I have to "reddit productX" and read there before making a
       | choice.
        
         | hubraumhugo wrote:
         | We're building a product research engine with Reddit's favorite
         | products in one place: https://looria.com/reddit/overview
        
           | Terretta wrote:
           | Welp, there goes reddit product discussions. This is why we
           | can't have nice things! (J/K)
           | 
           | Love the idea, and I actually used your site when shopping
           | for espresso machines recently.
           | 
           | I just worry about social media agencies turning their
           | tactics onto ranking in your algo. There are SEO kings
           | reading this thread right now...
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | I have contacted AMZN support about obviously bogus and word
       | salad product listings but they say they won't do anything unless
       | you bought the product.
       | 
       | I don't think they understand that when more than 50% of listings
       | are obviously bogus you don't have much confidence in the ones
       | that remain. For me AMZN went from the first place I looked to
       | the last.
        
       | pftburger wrote:
       | Doesn't Bezos own the Washington Post?
        
       | anticristi wrote:
       | We look this awesome technology called the Internet and turned it
       | into an ad pipeline.
        
       | wkdneidbwf wrote:
       | i'm not sure exactly when it happened, but i slowly lost
       | confidence shipping on amazon. too much crap and too many fake
       | reviews. at some point it began to make sense to just go to a
       | store again--as it turns out also means i make a decision about
       | how much i actually need something.
       | 
       | amazon fucked up bad by chasing growth at all costs. sounds like
       | a lot of tech companies these days.
        
       | jbuzbee wrote:
       | I just got done searching for an accessory for a specific model
       | of car on Amazon. My results prominently included items (ads) for
       | accessories for a different model of car that would not fit my
       | car. How does that help anyone? Wasted money for the company
       | buying ads. Wasted time for me trying to figure out what is
       | really applicable. And if I wasn't careful, I'd have ordered the
       | wrong thing and would have to return it wasting everyone's time
       | and effort. I guess Amazon got their money for showing me the ad.
       | Worth it? I wouldn't think so, but I'm not one of the richest
       | person in the world like Bezos - My lack of vision?
        
       | andrewyates2020 wrote:
       | I worked on ad load optimization and founded a company that
       | specializes in ad load optimization, here's an explainer video:
       | https://www.promoted.ai/videos/unified-ads-search-and-feed-o...).
       | 
       | The cynical comments here align with my experience: when
       | leadership demands now revenue, there is an iterative game where
       | the only correct answer is "increase revenue now." If you run
       | enough A/B tests and ask this question enough times over a large
       | enough organization, more ads and 3p always result.
       | 
       | Most companies are trying hard to produce a great user
       | experience. However, it's hard to measure subtle degradations to
       | buyer experiences, especially when those degradations happen
       | after the purchase or quality metrics corrupted by motivated
       | sellers or advertisers. This is one reason obsession with A/B
       | testing drives this poor user experience: it's hard to measure.
       | Revenue now is easy to measure.
       | 
       | Another aspect you may not see as a buyer is that when the market
       | is down, sellers are SCREAMING at their platforms to fix the
       | problem. Same iterated game: give boost (discount, ad credits
       | etc.), less screaming (for that team right now). What you see as
       | bad as a buyer may be trying to appease sellers.
        
       | BetterGeiger wrote:
       | I manufacture and sell one unique product. I started with direct
       | sales, doing okay, but it was clear that Amazon is where the real
       | action is, so I tried to sell there. Getting the listing up was a
       | slow and painful experience due to horrible seller service (this
       | is typical). Finally it's listed. Around 15% of revenue is fees.
       | That's with me doing my own fulfillment! Hardly any sales at
       | first, so I had no choice but to advertise. It looks like another
       | 15% of revenue will end up going to amazon ads. Amazon will
       | probably end up making more money than me, just for being the
       | middle man. That's if I'm lucky, because sales are still just a
       | trickle, and I'll probably have to up my ad spend to get any real
       | traction. It seems like the system is designed to put comparable
       | products competing against each other and the one that rises to
       | the top is he one that Amazon can squeeze the most blood out of,
       | unrelated to what the user might benefit from. It's
       | www.bettergeiger.com if you're curious.
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | Amazon will promote sellers who use their fulfilment service
         | over those who DIY.
         | 
         | https://www.marketplacepulse.com/articles/fulfillment-by-ama...
        
           | dymk wrote:
           | How is that not a violation of antitrust laws?
        
             | enraged_camel wrote:
             | Laws are just words unless they are enforced.
        
       | KyleBrandt wrote:
       | "Amazon has turned shill results into its next big thing. After
       | selling $31 billion in ads last year, Amazon became the third-
       | largest online ad company in the United States, trailing only
       | Google and Facebook".
       | 
       | Got my attention more than than anything else. Seems to really be
       | pushing antitrust to new heights?
        
       | strathmeyer wrote:
       | Amazon will also do something where certain drugs will be the top
       | of searches for other drugs or sometimes for example drugs for
       | cats will show up even if you search "for dogs" so if you aren't
       | paying complete attention you might not realize your mistake.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | hermannj314 wrote:
       | This article was full of ads, many of which had no relationship
       | to the article I was reading.
       | 
       | In the early 2000s, I dont remember this being a problem.
       | 
       | It is not your imagination, reading on WaPo has gotten worse.
        
         | HDThoreaun wrote:
         | I think the point of the article is that the ads are incredibly
         | deceptive, not that they just exist. Wapo ads aren't really
         | trying to trick you, the Amazon ones absolutely are.
        
         | xdavidliu wrote:
         | Firefox with ublock origin solves this problem easily.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | When you attract a lot of attention, inevitably ads will make
       | more money for you than your initial product. You become a
       | middleman, a hub, a celebrity, a politician, a higher up. This
       | leaves the space below open to competitors and puts you in a more
       | lucrative position.
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | The article is not wrong.
       | 
       | I find myself "shopping" by looking at my previous orders and
       | selecting things that I liked before.
       | 
       | Amazon Prime is now more of a $10/month source of streaming
       | entertainment content.
       | 
       | It does feel good to buy direct from manufacturers but I do a
       | price comparison with Amazon first.
        
       | GekkePrutser wrote:
       | I agree with the article except for the criticism about Amazon
       | promoting their own products. I don't mind that part. After all I
       | go to Amazon to buy stuff from Amazon. In fact I _wish_ I could
       | just select a box and filter out all the third-party sellers.
       | There is too much completely unvalidated scammy stuff on there,
       | even in the  "shipped by Amazon" category.
       | 
       | However they don't have this option probably because then none of
       | these ads would be relevant.
       | 
       | By the way, another thing I've noticed is that Amazon sometimes
       | doesn't even come up with the right products if you _type the
       | actual product name_. It just comes up with suggested crap that
       | 's not what you're looking for. The actual thing I want does not
       | come up, even on the further pages.
       | 
       | Often I think Amazon doesn't have the thing I want, and then I
       | google (or duckduckgo more often) it to find it somewhere else,
       | and the first result is... A link to Amazon with the thing I
       | wanted! In stock, first-party and for a good price.
       | 
       | It's really ridiculous that I have to use a third-party search
       | engine to find what I need when I specify exactly what I want!
        
         | pigbearpig wrote:
         | I thought there was a seller filter. I know I've used it before
         | to only show Seller: Amazon.com.
        
           | GekkePrutser wrote:
           | It doesn't come up for me on the left-hand side where all the
           | filters are :( Just double-checked.
        
       | mannschott wrote:
       | I was shocked by how spammy Amazon.com's search results seemed
       | compared to what I'm accustomed to from Amazon.de. I'm not a
       | regular user of Amazon.com but have had occasion to do so since
       | I'm visiting family in the US. Amazon.de is the "local" Amazon
       | where I live.
       | 
       | Is this an affect of differing laws in the EU versus the USA?
       | Differences in leadership of Amazon.com versus Amazon.de?
       | Differences in perceived market expectations? Perhaps the average
       | American consumer is expected to be more tolerant of this kind of
       | thing? (I wonder because I compare the robo-call-infested
       | hellscape that we've made of our telephone system compared to the
       | rarity of such abuse where I live in Europe and wonder if we, in
       | the US, are just more prone to behave in a way that produces
       | tragedies of the commons.)
        
       | jabo wrote:
       | I recently had to buy something mundane - a light bulb, with a
       | specific lumen and color temperature spec. Weeding out all the
       | junk listings, ads and clearly fake reviews, I ended up spending
       | an hour trying to get to the one I wanted to buy.
       | 
       | Had a very similar experience for another product as well.
       | 
       | At this point, I hesitate to look up stuff on Amazon just
       | considering the time it takes to find stuff. I much rather prefer
       | a curated list of products so someone else has done the weeding
       | out.
       | 
       | It seems like Amazon's philosophy of having the widest set of
       | options for every product is actually not that useful in
       | practice, at least for me.
       | 
       | The only reason I still keep going back is that they deliver many
       | products on the same day to the neighborhood I live in.
        
         | kennend3 wrote:
         | > I ended up spending an hour trying to get to the one I wanted
         | to buy.
         | 
         | As someone who has been in the same situation I just go to my
         | local Lowes/Home Depot now. The lighting section actually shows
         | you what they look like turned on which is nice.
         | 
         | After doing some competitive price shopping it is rare that
         | amazon's prices are competitive. I guess not having to go to
         | the store is convenient?
         | 
         | > I much rather prefer a curated list of products so someone
         | else has done the weeding out.
         | 
         | With amazon's commingling of inventory this isn't a workable
         | solution.
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | The dreaded comingling of inventory is just the cherry on
           | top. A curated list is there opposite of Amazon Marketplace.
           | For years I wished that it was easier to just keep all the
           | marketplace offerings hidden permanently since I want to buy
           | from Amazon and not someone I've never heard of. At this
           | point it's all such a blurred mess.
        
         | noveltyaccount wrote:
         | More is less. Decision fatigue, terrible comparison shopping
         | experience, nearly indistinguishable products. I think about
         | this at the grocery store every time I look at yogurt or
         | toothpaste, by the way.
        
         | VLM wrote:
         | > a light bulb, with a specific lumen and color temperature
         | spec
         | 
         | Sponsored links are always useless and should only be scrolled
         | past on Amazon.
         | 
         | Typical disappointing Amazon experience:
         | 
         | Search for LED 8W. First result, sponsored link to an 11W bulb.
         | Then a sponsored link to a fake marketing 21 watt bulb with
         | fake lumen marketing. Then a sponsored link to six pack of 14W
         | bulbs. The 4th link returned is a sponsored link to a 8W
         | designer clear glass thing which is at least not off topic.
         | 
         | Not all searches are as toxic as LEDs. If you search for "oil
         | 5w-30" only 10% or so of search results are totally wrong (like
         | 10w-30, or 5w-40)
         | 
         | Another hilarious search term "chocolate almond milk" most of
         | the results are bulk almonds, some milk-product made of
         | bananas, several oat milk results, chocolate almondmilk pudding
         | (OK, close enough, but weird), protein bars made of almonds,
         | some soy shake drink, starbucks frappuccino vanilla, pea-
         | protein fake milk, admittedly at least 1/3 of results are on
         | topic.
         | 
         | I just searched for "4-40 SHCS" (a SHCS is a socket head cap
         | screw, like to fix a car part). About 2/3 of the results are on
         | topic, but then Amazon throws in "D'Moksha Small Short
         | Thanksgiving Holiday Navy Table Runner Or Dresser Scarf (14 x
         | 36 Inch)", what? Some of it is just bizarre. I specified 4-40
         | size so I get a search result for 5/8-11 machine bolts. OK
         | then.
         | 
         | Its getting hard to buy stuff on Amazon, like they're actively
         | trying not to sell what you ask for.
         | 
         | I do EE type stuff at work and home and I am spoiled by
         | professional sites like Digikey, if you search for a 1K
         | resistor they present you with a parametric search result of 1K
         | resistors, not random assortments of 74HCT logic chips or teddy
         | bears or rolls of solder like Amazon would.
        
           | hw wrote:
           | Shopping on Amazon has been painful. Just takes so long when
           | a few years ago it seemed as if I can trust what is sold on
           | Amazon and search is a lot more relevant that I don't have to
           | scroll a few pages to find what I want.
           | 
           | Yet I still buy almost everything on Amazon, and I still go
           | through the pains of navigating around the sponsored
           | products. The checkout, shipping, and returns experience is
           | why I still use Amazon - not sure how long that lasts
        
         | cunidev wrote:
         | For most products, at least in Europe you can get the same
         | cheap junk of Amazon listings from eBay at 20-40% lower prices,
         | and usually (slightly) higher quality one from brick and mortar
         | stores at the Amazon price.
         | 
         | I avoid Amazon in principle since many years (unless I _really_
         | need a product there), but that has never been hard,
         | considering that most smaller stores always offered me more
         | convenient prices, less hassle in searching, and the relief of
         | not giving money to such a controversial giant.
        
           | walthamstow wrote:
           | This + the eBay sellers in the UK use Royal Mail so goods are
           | delivered by my postman, who already walks past my house
           | every morning anyway
        
             | mrweasel wrote:
             | As someone who dislikes eBay and prefer to deal with
             | companies, rather then individuals, the UKs preference for
             | eBay is interesting. Working for an eCommerce site we
             | noticed that customers would prefer to deal with a lady in
             | Scotland over us, for certain types of products. She just
             | posted our product on eBay, added a few PS to the price,
             | ordered them from us, typed in her customers address in the
             | shipping fields.
             | 
             | Worked out for everyone, given that her customers would
             | rather order on eBay and pay a little extra, compared to
             | dealing with us. We got the price we wanted, plus we didn't
             | have to deal with customer service.
        
               | shellfishgene wrote:
               | It's weird, one would expect eBay to be more of a wild
               | west than Amazon marketplace, but in my experience the
               | eBay sellers are fast and mostly trustworthy.
        
           | shellfishgene wrote:
           | I ordered something from Amazon a few weeks ago, and didn't
           | check the shipping time. I turned out that the thing was sent
           | directly from China and took 2 weeks. The tracking that
           | Amazon provides did not even work properly. There is really
           | almost no reason anymore not to order the stuff on Aliexpress
           | for 20% lower prices.
        
           | Guest9081239812 wrote:
           | It's the same thing in Canada. It's easy to identify the mass
           | produced Chinese products. You search for an item on Amazon
           | and find 30 different "companies" with random names selling
           | the identical product with different logos. The prices will
           | range from $10-30. I know if I go to eBay I can buy the same
           | product for $2 with free shipping from China. I only have to
           | decide if I want the product delivered tomorrow through
           | Amazon or in 1-2 months from China.
        
         | pibechorro wrote:
         | _amazon choice_ and _most popular_ tend to do a lot of the
         | sifting you want.
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | Is _most popular_ actually legit or does that get gamed as
           | well?
        
           | jabo wrote:
           | I've seen questionable reviews on Amazon Choice products as
           | well. I vaguely remember reading that the labels are gameable
           | since they are automated.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | Amazon's Choice is bullshit.
           | 
           | https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/23/amazon-choice-badge-
           | recommen...
           | 
           | > The company applies the "Amazon's Choice" badge to some
           | products that are unsafe, mislabeled and violate its own
           | policies, a Wall Street Journal investigation has found. The
           | label appeared on dozens of products that were banned, didn't
           | meet safety standards and featured fake safety
           | certifications. It was also applied to controlled substances,
           | like steroids and marijuana products, the Journal reported.
           | 
           | > In other cases, "Amazon's Choice" listings were manipulated
           | with specific keywords that would ensure they'd be included
           | in the recommendation engine. The Journal discovered some
           | third-party merchants have developed ways to game the
           | algorithms that help determine which products are featured,
           | by pushing consumers to buy an item, which artificially
           | juiced sales and made it appear more popular.
        
         | BenjiWiebe wrote:
         | What I do sometimes is search the websites of the manufacturers
         | of the product. Like for SD cards I'll search samsung.com, for
         | hard drives westerndigital.com, for light bulbs maybe
         | creelighting.com, etc.
        
         | tomohawk wrote:
         | Try bulbs.com
         | 
         | Even when I have to resort to amazon, I usually end up using
         | that info to find non amazon sites to purchase from. Why
         | support a fake goods laundry service?
        
       | fmajid wrote:
       | Amazon is the third largest advertising company after Google and
       | Meta. Its ad revenue is $32B (and growing fast, the run rate is
       | $40B). That is half the revenue of AWS, which is worth 70% of
       | Amazon's market cap. The inescapable conclusion is that Amazon's
       | advertising is worth the remaining 30% of Amazon's market cap and
       | _Amazon 's e-commerce arm is deemed worthless by Wall Street_,
       | its only purpose being to support the advertising business, just
       | what Google Search is to Alphabet.
       | 
       | Think on that for a moment. The other inescapable conclusion is
       | that whenever the quality of the shopping experience on Amazon
       | and the needs of Amazon's advertising business clash, advertising
       | will win (just as it has on Google). That's an even more foregone
       | conclusion since Andy Jassy took on the top job, he's from AWS
       | and owes no special allegiance to the historical e-commerce
       | business.
        
         | s17n wrote:
         | > The other inescapable conclusion is that whenever the quality
         | of the shopping experience on Amazon and the needs of Amazon's
         | advertising business clash, advertising will win (just as it
         | has on Google).
         | 
         | Saying that the e-commerce arm is worthless isn't really the
         | right way to think about it - the ads business only exists to
         | due the e-commerce product. Both Amazon and Google are well
         | aware that their ad revenues depend on their having users, who
         | will ultimately leave if the product (ecommerce and search,
         | respectively) isn't compelling. Both of them know that long-
         | term success requires them to prioritize user experience.
         | 
         | Do they make bad decisions, either due to misaligned incentives
         | internally or due to simply making mistakes? Undoubtedly. But
         | it's also worth considering that they probably get the tradeoff
         | right a lot of the time and most people simply aren't bothered
         | by ads nearly as much as you'd like them to be.
        
           | fmajid wrote:
           | Obviously Amazon's e-commerce division is not worthless, but
           | it often happens that conglomerates are worth less than the
           | sum of their parts. Many activist investors have been calling
           | to split AWS from Amazon.com, but the ad business can't be
           | split from the store that brings it eyeballs.
        
           | Terretta wrote:
           | > _Both of them know that long-term success requires them to
           | prioritize user experience._
           | 
           | Of course user experience is prioritized: below _advertiser_
           | experience.
           | 
           | Prioritization doesn't just mean things are on top, for
           | everything but the top item it means things are below other
           | things.
        
             | csa wrote:
             | > Of course user experience is prioritized: below
             | advertiser experience.
             | 
             | I'm not sure how much you're into the Google ads world, but
             | they have screwed the pooch on that recently as well (e.g.,
             | by gimping "exact match" keywords).
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | Hard to know what fmajid means - although mentioning revenue
           | is a serious black flag. Google's search is a cost-centre and
           | their advertising is a profit-centre. You could say Amazon is
           | similar because in 2021 AWS made all the income and
           | e-commerce made zero income[1].
           | 
           | I would be interested to see an analysis of income per
           | business sector*, including their advertising sector, for
           | Amazon. fmajid would need that information to be able to make
           | the conclusions they drew.
           | 
           | From article: "After selling $31 billion in ads last year,
           | Amazon became the third-largest online ad company in the
           | United States"
           | 
           | Hard to know what this means, since we can't know how much it
           | "cost" Amazon for those ads (especially the cost of consumer
           | dissatisfaction as the article mentions, and what is
           | opportunity-cost?)
           | 
           | * and ideally assets per sector as well, plus a metric for
           | internal capital reinvestment (VC style).
           | 
           | [1] https://www.investopedia.com/how-amazon-makes-
           | money-4587523 Amazon unfortunately seems to only report on
           | their segments: North America, International, and AWS.
        
         | zwkrt wrote:
         | This reminds me that as far as wall street is concerned, it is
         | actually an afterthought that airlines operate airplanes, all
         | the money is in the credit cards.
        
           | blamazon wrote:
           | Making and selling TVs is similarly an afterthought for TV
           | manufacturers now that smart TVs have been commodified, the
           | money is in the analytics platforms.
        
           | fmajid wrote:
           | I think it was the CEO of American Airlines, which owned the
           | Sabre computer reservation system at the time, that if he had
           | to choose between keeping the airline or the CRS, he'd go for
           | the latter. In any event. Sabre was spun out in 2000.
        
         | Archipelagia wrote:
         | Sorry, but can you share some source for that?
         | 
         | Like, on first page I've found in Google
         | (https://www.insiderintelligence.com/insights/amazon-revenue/)
         | it says: AWS - ~17B Ads - ~9B Online stores - ~66B
         | 
         | I actually wouldn't be surprised if I'm misunderstanding
         | something and you're right, but can I ask where you got these
         | numbers?
         | 
         | Edit: On second read I realized the source I sent was
         | misleading - the title talks about annual revenue, but hidden
         | in the text there's a note saying that sub-headings actually
         | show quarterly revenue. I'm still not sure about AWS-to-sales
         | ratio, but my apologies for earlier confusion.
        
           | arcturus17 wrote:
           | Yea no I'm also left scratching my head. I've never heard of
           | a methodology to attribute market cap portions to business
           | units; eager to hear some clarification too.
        
             | spoonjim wrote:
             | This is done all the time when pieces of businesses are
             | bought and sold. It gets a little complex when the
             | businesses are related (like Amazon Advertising and
             | e-commerce, as opposed to Amazon e-commerce and AWS which
             | are more fully independent of each other).
        
               | arcturus17 wrote:
               | I understand approximating present value by discounting
               | cash flows but not how you would come to the conclusion
               | that the eCommerce business is valued at zero because the
               | sum of AWS and ads make the total of the market cap.
        
             | fmajid wrote:
             | When Amazon had a market cap of $1.7T, $1T of that was from
             | AWS. I don't remember what the source was for the estimate.
        
               | a123b456c wrote:
               | LMGTFY: https://www.google.com/amp/s/247wallst.com/techno
               | logy-3/2022...
               | 
               | Not an authoritative source. No rationale given.
        
             | throwaway5752 wrote:
             | It is a well-established concept called https://www.investo
             | pedia.com/terms/s/sumofpartsvaluation.asp. A company's
             | value is estimated on net present value (npv) of its
             | projected, discounted future cash flows. If a company has a
             | large, stable subsidiary that is growing slowly but is cash
             | flow positive and a very fast growing but money losing
             | subsidiary, it makes more sense to value parent company as
             | if both subsidiaries were separate companies than the
             | average of the two. A famous example was AWS within Amazon
             | before it became noticeable in the bottom and top lines.
        
               | texasbigdata wrote:
               | Further, it's often applied backwards. Some financial
               | engineering self proclaimed wizard will claim "x+y+z=a
               | and the stock is trading at b, and a>>b, therefore the
               | conglomerate discount is too large so we can earn risk
               | free profit (aka arbitrage) by breaking this company up
               | and publicly listing x,y, and z as independent units".
               | See: Xerox, for example.
               | 
               | Typically in mergers, you see accretion due to the
               | removal of duplicate functions on the cost side (you
               | don't need two HR departments for example), but sometimes
               | you get negative credit if you're a too big / too opaque
               | / too confusing.
        
               | arcturus17 wrote:
               | Yes I understand NPV and DCF but not OPs point. The
               | eCommerce arm makes a lot of money so I don't understand
               | how you could come to the conclusion that its present
               | value is zero.
        
               | diogofranco wrote:
               | It made less than no money recently. You might be
               | thinking of revenue.
        
               | arcturus17 wrote:
               | Where are you getting this from? I cannot for the life of
               | me find profits by business unit. I have glanced over the
               | 2021 Annual Report but don't have to analyze it. If you
               | have a source I would appreciate it.
        
               | throwaway5752 wrote:
               | I see what you're saying. The logic to the OP's point is
               | "If AWS were to be spun out, on its own it should be
               | worth 12x revenue, or $750B. If the Amazon web business
               | were to be spun out on its own, it should be worth 6x
               | revenue or $250B. Since those add up to $1T and the
               | market cap of AMZN is $950B, the market assigns a -50B
               | valuation to the rest of the company." I agree it's
               | flawed logic. The market may just disagree with someone's
               | sum-of-parts. It maybe conglomerate discount. It may be
               | that the market is undervaluing AMZN, too. I don't think
               | that many people would disagree AMZN's ecommerce division
               | is valuable.
        
           | fmajid wrote:
           | For AWS, 3rd quarter revenues alone were $20B, so $80B
           | annual. I don't know where that other source of yours finds
           | $17B, unless they are talking profit.
           | 
           | https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/27/aws-earnings-q3-2022.html
           | 
           | For the ads business, from The Information, but it's
           | paywalled.
           | 
           | https://www.theinformation.com/articles/google-s-pain-is-
           | ama...
           | 
           | the info is in the second paragraph. The conlusions are
           | entirely mine.
           | 
           | The WaPo article does mention $31B for last year.
        
         | manmal wrote:
         | What rationale is behind comparing revenue with market cap? I
         | thought price is rather judged against earnings, eg by looking
         | at the P/E ratio.
        
         | oliwary wrote:
         | The same can be said for airlines, which are often worth less
         | in total than their loyalty programs:
         | https://thehustle.co/10052020-airline-loyalty-programs/
         | 
         | Of course, these loyalty programs would be worthless without
         | the airline itself as rewards.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | Similar to how vizio makes more money spying through their tvs
         | than selling them in the first place.
        
           | squarefoot wrote:
           | Context: https://www.howtogeek.com/767919/tv-manufacturers-
           | make-more-...
        
         | greatpostman wrote:
         | It's an accounting trick. Retail is profitable via ads and
         | more. Retail also pays huge infrastructure sums to aws. It's
         | all a trick to make amazon stock pump
        
       | PaulKeeble wrote:
       | Its apparently not enough for a business this size to just sell
       | products with good customer service any more. The customer
       | service is long gone replaced by the computer saying no. The
       | product listings are just ads and the reviews are all fake.
        
         | lightbendover wrote:
         | One Day Shipping and aggressive FC expansion led to a
         | completely inordinate logistics cost. Pretty good reason Wilke
         | is gone and Jassy had the chance to step up to me, but I can't
         | speak to that with authority.
        
       | chaostheory wrote:
       | As shown by this and countless of other articles, including
       | comments here and places like Reddit; Amazon has gotten to Day 2
       | years ago on Jeff's watch
       | 
       | Just to ensure that you don't buy a fake product, it's now normal
       | to check if there are any 3rd parties using Amazon warehouses in
       | the Other Sellers section
        
       | eljimmy wrote:
       | My spending on Amazon has diminished significantly due to the
       | flood of Chinese copycat brands and products on there.
       | 
       | Wish there was a way to filter out products by their country of
       | origin. Is there any alternative out there?
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | Amazon has actually been requiring vendors to supply this info
         | for a few years now. They have it in their database, but refuse
         | to expose it. The Indian government forced them to, mostly
         | because they are in a cold war with China and want to wean
         | themselves off from Chinese goods.
        
       | citizenpaul wrote:
       | >But now that I'm aware Amazon is playing games, I start my
       | shopping on Google and trusted reviews sites, and then head over
       | to Amazon only once I've identified what I want.
       | 
       | So the author has stockholm syndrome. What I do is go to the
       | company website and see where I can order besides amazon. Though
       | some sellers only do sell on amazon.
       | 
       | This is basically an echo of the Ticketmaster post a week or two
       | ago. I hate them and they abuse me as a customer but I still keep
       | giving them money.
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | It has absolutely gotten out of hand lately. 2 sponsored product,
       | 3 regular listed, 2 sponsored product, continued perpetually.
       | Walmart has been pulling the same stuff lately and it's
       | infuriating.
        
         | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
         | At a certain 'sponsored product' density, the 'sponsoring'
         | effectively just becomes an additional mandatory listing fee.
        
       | aeharding wrote:
       | Amazon prime isn't even two days anymore in Madison. It's more
       | like four or five days. I don't understand what people value in
       | prime anymore.
        
       | sanitycheck wrote:
       | My process for getting usable results on Amazon (.co.uk,
       | presumably the others too):
       | 
       | 1. Search for thing
       | 
       | 2. Filter by department (necessary for 3)
       | 
       | 3. Filter by Seller: only Amazon
       | 
       | 4: Filter by reviews: 4 stars+
       | 
       | 5: Sort by price, Low > High
       | 
       | 6: (Further filters as appropriate)
       | 
       | 7: Look at only products with a high number of reviews
       | 
       | 8: For every product, "See all reviews" and filter on "Verified
       | purchase only" and "Show only reviews for {the product variant
       | you're actually looking at}". Closely scrutinise 1 and 2 star
       | reviews.
       | 
       | But sometimes even this _still_ doesn't get me quite what I want,
       | because when an item is sold both by Amazon and a 3rd-party it
       | can be sorted based on the non-Amazon price.
       | 
       | It does feel _just a little_ like Amazon 's goals might not be
       | perfectly aligned with those of the customer.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | FeistySkink wrote:
         | I'm skeptical of #8. I sometimes leave detailed reviews for
         | items that I purchased or used elsewhere and have a deep
         | understanding of to dissuade other people from buying.
         | Especially for new products that are being overhyped on YT or
         | through Amazon Vine (how is that even a thing), even though
         | they are of dubious quality. I have quite a few non-verified
         | reviews that are voted most helpful, but Amazon obviously
         | prioritized Vine reviews, even when they don't have any votes.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | Ads are infective. This is why folks are worried about Apple
         | jumping into that revenue stream.
        
         | russdill wrote:
         | It's very frustrating the number of clicks that are necessary
         | to get a list of reviews most recent first, and not just the
         | first few.
        
         | dtgriscom wrote:
         | I tend to check 3-star reviews; you (hopefully) find out what's
         | wrong with a product, but not from someone who hates it and may
         | focus on trivialities just to trash it.
        
         | cycomanic wrote:
         | Are other sites so bad in the US? I can count the number of
         | times I've been tempted to buy with Amazon in Europe on one
         | hand. I mean pretty much every other webshop has a search
         | experience that is orders of magnitude better then add Geizhals
         | to the mix and you're almost guaranteed to find the cheapest
         | offer, in much less clicks than even trying to find something
         | that is legit and matches the search criteria on amazon. Why do
         | people still use it?
        
           | Drew_ wrote:
           | The search experience on Amazon is not actually that bad.
           | It's only bad if you're paranoid or picky. I don't use Amazon
           | to discover anything that I'm actually passionate/picky about
           | so I personally never have this problem.
        
             | fmajid wrote:
             | Amazon used to emply Udi Manber, who literally wrote the
             | book on search. Yet it still doesn't offer basic search
             | features every search engine has had for years, like using
             | quotes for phrases, the plus sign to require a phrase to be
             | present in the search result, or the minus sign to exclude
             | keywords or phrases from search results. That's by design.
             | 
             | Amazon search is so useless that about half the time I use
             | DuckDuckGo to search Amazon itself.
        
           | robryan wrote:
           | In Australia a lot of their delivery is Uber style drivers
           | and is usually faster than other options.
        
           | manmal wrote:
           | The only reason I still buy at Amazon (even though I live in
           | Geizhals territory) is the knowledge that returns and
           | moneyback is a nonissue, even for consumables or when things
           | break after a year. Most retailers are ok-ish at that (some
           | do have a really bad Geizhals rating), but Amazon is pretty
           | much zero risk there.
           | 
           | For example: I recently ordered a EUR600 printer at a local
           | retailer. The printer shipped in an unusable state (it
           | refused to print and one of the paper feeds spit out a metal
           | spring at me, not a good sign), so I sent it back. It took 6
           | weeks and an angry email from me for them to ship the
           | replacement unit. With Amazon this just doesn't happen, or at
           | least, has never happened to me.
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | I applaud anyone who leaves a non 5 star review, gets contacted
         | by the company with bribes to make it 5 stars, and updates
         | their review to report the company doing that.
        
           | low_key wrote:
           | I've left negative reviews and they tend to get removed.
           | 
           | I was once even warned by Amazon that my account could be
           | deactivated for violation of the ToS after posting a review
           | that pointed out all of the other fake reviews on a
           | particular product. Apparently the ToS allow fake reviews and
           | disallow shining a light on it.
        
             | FeistySkink wrote:
             | Amazon Vine is a thing, so of course they encourage fake
             | reviews of free products.
        
             | hgsgm wrote:
        
             | bombela wrote:
             | Yep, same experience here. Everytime I reported, my updated
             | review was deleted.
        
           | sanitycheck wrote:
           | I'm sure people do it, the bribes are probably not very good.
           | Sadly the company can probably get Amazon to take down the
           | review in that case.
           | 
           | Reviews for sellers themselves are a joke too, I was looking
           | at some earlier today, via black friday deals. The number of
           | reviews with a line through them and "Amazon takes
           | responsibility for this fulfillment-related experience" was
           | hilarious, when those reviews were things like "the motor
           | doesn't work". I guess those then aren't included in the "90%
           | positive" statistic.
        
             | robryan wrote:
             | The seller could argue that it was damaged in transit. The
             | whole thing would probably be luck of the draw in how their
             | first level support in India chooses to apply guidelines.
        
           | webignition wrote:
           | I left a non 5 star review of an inexpensive Pixel 4 case.
           | The case was too close around the flash resulting in the
           | flash reflecting off the case resulting in absolutely awful
           | pictures.
           | 
           | I was offered a refund and replacement of a newer version of
           | the case in return for a better review.
           | 
           | The phone case was simply not fit for purpose as it was and
           | the review fairly (I hope) highlighted this.
           | 
           | I accepted the replacement newer version and agreed to a more
           | flattering review once the improved case was seen to indeed
           | be improved. If the flaw had been fixed then it would be fair
           | to reflect this in my review.
           | 
           | The improved case was no different and my review remained
           | unchanged, except for an update reflecting the bribe.
        
           | mancerayder wrote:
           | They don't need to bribe anymore. Negative reviews get
           | removed pretty easily. It's happened to me.
           | 
           | It's the new normal. Airbnb is even worse, they used to (and
           | still might) actually have customer service edit reviews.
           | Your review will get removed with no notice, Amazon will let
           | you know.
           | 
           | If you remove some or most negative reviews but leave
           | positive ones, what do you get.
        
             | bombela wrote:
             | I have noticed this for negative review on products from
             | big and well known companies. About technical flaws. Like a
             | gaming computer mouse where pressing left and right click
             | together wouldn't work. Until you update the firmware of
             | the mouse (yep... yep you wouldn't think a mouse should be
             | buggy nor firmware updateable).
        
             | MichaelCollins wrote:
             | Apparently Airbnb will delete any review that criticizes a
             | property for something the property owner can't fix. Loud
             | traintracks with trains blasting by at 3am every morning?
             | That's not the property owner's fault, so that's a bad
             | review.
             | 
             | As if reviews exist _only_ to give constructive feedback to
             | property owners, rather than to warn other renters away
             | from a bad experience!
        
               | hombre_fatal wrote:
               | "Apartment is great for early risers!" = it's on a city
               | bus route that rattles the windows
               | 
               | "Interesting locals in the area!" = homeless people on
               | your doorstep
        
               | syrrim wrote:
               | "Property owner has not done enough to soundproof the
               | unit against nearby train noise"
        
         | Heyso wrote:
         | I've bought and seen crap with good reviews. On Amazon.
         | 
         | You have a good chance to end with some chinese crap if you
         | rely only on Amazon.
         | 
         | On some product, I prefer finding a specialized seller (that
         | isn't dropshipping). Or find a real blog (tends to be hard with
         | all those fakes websites listing top 100 products, but they
         | nmask hemselves when all products are chinese crap on Amazon).
         | Reddit also work to get advice from peoples.
         | 
         | What's more. I make research on the compagny producing the
         | thing. LinkedIn helps with that. Only commercials on a tech
         | product ? Get out.
        
           | hattmall wrote:
           | eBay is actually legit a good source for quality items. You
           | can see actual seller ratings, how much the seller sells and
           | specific item feedback. The returns / refund process is dead
           | simple and flawless as well. The only issue is that none of
           | the processes are as quick as Amazon. Shipping is slower and
           | if you need to do a return it can take like 3 days to get the
           | label.
        
           | entropie wrote:
           | > I've bought and seen crap with good reviews. On Amazon.
           | 
           | Have you heard of https://reviewmeta.com/ ?, If not, give it
           | a try, I use it regularly and it does as advertised.
        
         | InCityDreams wrote:
         | Fair and balanced. My last several purchases with amazon have
         | been a breeze, and i will continue (especially as local shops
         | are taking full advantage to up their prices for seemingly no
         | good reason except 'there'sa crisis') I regularly kill cookies.
         | Perhaps it's a .com thing as I'll take the healthcare route and
         | search through .nl, .it, .de, .co.uk for the same item. And
         | then pay from where i have my account.
        
         | ljm wrote:
         | I had to buy a replacement USB cable in a pinch the other week.
         | Probably the first time since pre-COVID where I could justify
         | next day delivery (where I would normally be happy to just wait
         | however long it takes from a more local retailer).
         | 
         | I knew exactly the kind to look for but I couldn't just search
         | for that and pick the first item on the list. I could have
         | easily bought the wrong thing in one click and not known it.
         | 
         | Instead I had to spend about 30 minutes tweaking my search
         | query, scrolling through SEO-spam listings ("NEW iPhone 14
         | Galaxy S21 MacBook Pro Windows 95 SE USB 2.1A cable 6cm!") and
         | other listings which were all just the same listing but with a
         | different no-name logo laser printed on the casing. Was on
         | Google cross-referencing some of them to see if they'd actually
         | be legit, since I'd trust a post in a niche forum over a review
         | on a marketplace.
         | 
         | It took me longer to verify what I was buying than it did to go
         | through checkout. Reminded me why Amazon stopped being my go-
         | to.
        
           | hgsgm wrote:
           | what's wrong with getting the Amazon Basics version of
           | whatever commodity?
        
             | chronogram wrote:
             | I got a bunch of AmazonBasics cables last Christmas, but
             | this year they don't seem to be available anymore. Don't
             | know what the point of Amazon is in my local economy if
             | they don't have those products anymore, since there's at
             | least some market economics alive here.
        
         | bradleyjg wrote:
         | _2. Filter by department (necessary for 3)
         | 
         | 3. Filter by Seller: only Amazon_
         | 
         | This is harder and harder to do, especially on the app. I've
         | started to use walmart instead. They also have this third party
         | seller garbage but at least they make easier to filter out.
        
         | fleddr wrote:
         | Yep, and then when you finally have your sights on a product,
         | there will always be that one review:
         | 
         | "Cable didn't work, instead it shortcircuited my TV".
        
         | jamiek88 wrote:
         | I do similar but actually prefer the product with the _lower_
         | amount of reviews as IMO a product with 200 reviews is more
         | likely to have real reviews than one with 20k reviews, they
         | just look fake to me.
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | My process for getting usable results on Amazon is to simply
         | not use it. For any item you can think of there is an online
         | shop dedicated to the specialty that is:
         | 
         | - cheaper
         | 
         | - easiest to search
         | 
         | - do not sell knockoffs, counterfeits and fake products
         | 
         | I know some people will raise the "you need to create another
         | account for it annoyance" but it is not that annoying when you
         | are using a password manager and the additionnal time spent
         | could even be considered a feature to avoid compulsive buying.
        
           | hombre_fatal wrote:
           | I thought thus was the way to go into I ran into bad shipping
           | schedule and bad return policies, esp the latter. Now I never
           | order anywhere except Amazon. I learn this lesson every time
           | I try to follow your pitch.
        
       | Marsymars wrote:
       | > "We are dedicated to providing customers with a world-class
       | shopping experience, including working hard every day to ensure
       | the ads they see are useful, informative, and help make shopping
       | a little bit easier," said spokesman Patrick Graham.
       | 
       | If they were actually confident in this, they could give every
       | user the option to toggle ads on or off. Maybe even limit that
       | option to Amazon Prime subscribers.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | This skit represents the experience quite well:
       | https://youtu.be/nQpxAvjD_30?t=4s
        
         | thefourthchime wrote:
         | I was thinking the same!
        
         | chrisbaker98 wrote:
         | Haha this was amazing.
        
         | Oras wrote:
         | 5 stars video haha
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | I got this for my husband and he loves it.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | For the mixer example, it seems the way to do it is to go to the
       | brand's "store".
       | 
       | Perhaps there is a way to get there directly but the only way I
       | know is to search for the brand name, scroll down until one of
       | the brand's products appears (even if the offered example isn't
       | what you want), click on that, and then on the product page
       | you'll see "visit the <brand> store", if there is one. I assume
       | it's something the company has to pay for as well.
       | 
       | Actually I just tried searching for "kitchenaid store" and
       | _mirable dictu_ the first page of results was all kitchenaid
       | products.
       | 
       | I would give up on Amazon but some smaller brands (e.g. Anker)
       | sell only through Amazon.
        
       | proee wrote:
       | Would it be possible to create an Amazon "Ad blocker" of sorts
       | that hides all the sponsored products and store promotions?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | AlexandrB wrote:
       | Is it just me or does it feel like the major tech companies have
       | completely lost the war against bots/spam? Search results are
       | regressing across multiple online services[1] - Google, Amazon,
       | and app stores are all filled with junk and scams. Reviews for
       | products are generally filled to the brim with bots or paid
       | reviews.
       | 
       | [1] I've noticed the re-emergence of Experts Exchange style sites
       | on Google recently. For technical questions Stack Overflow or
       | official docs are often near the bottom of the first page, while
       | sites like w3schools or geeksforgeeks are at the top with much
       | less useful content.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | Try https://kagi.com and the Programming Lens
         | 
         | (Kagi is worth the subscription even w/o that: user is paying
         | for search, not advertisers paying for eyeballs.)
        
       | pliuchkin wrote:
       | Is it time for a browser extension to ad block Amazon internals?
        
       | unnouinceput wrote:
       | I can die peacefully now. I lived to see a negative article in
       | Washington Post about Amazon. Did I missed something? Is WP no
       | longer Jeff's vomit (like the flurry of articles about how bad
       | Amazon's worker doing a union would be for them, that flooded WP
       | not even a year ago)?
        
       | aslilac wrote:
       | Amazon is unusable at this point, and I don't get how they have
       | so many customers. Free and fast shipping is no longer exclusive
       | to them, and there are others out there with far nicer websites
       | and no shitty ad listings.
        
         | verdverm wrote:
         | tbh, just used Newegg this week...
         | 
         | 2 day shipping costs more, they didn't even get it here in 2
         | days, they split my order into 8 orders, each tracked and
         | emailed separately. I've been boycotting Amazon almost 5 years,
         | but their competition really sucks to the point I'm thinking of
         | going back. At least I've been able to avoid a lot of frivolous
         | purchases for a while...
        
           | CPLX wrote:
           | Newegg has cloned the Amazon strategy. They also do
           | marketplace stuff. It's really just another example of the
           | same thing.
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | I look down on Newegg _more_ for its marketplace strategy
             | because it distracted from a niche it served well. By the
             | time Amazon was doing its marketplace, it was already
             | selling everything, so I didn 't notice.
        
           | treis wrote:
           | NewEgg rather infamously scammed Linus Tech tips and
           | thousands of stories of them doing similar came out (myself
           | included). I don't know why anyone buys from them. They will
           | commit outright fraud and steal money from you.
           | 
           | Amazon at least maintains the fig leaf of plausible
           | deniability and part of that is no questions asked returns.
        
             | thewebcount wrote:
             | Likewise. I ordered 2 sets of batteries for our cordless
             | landline phone from NewEgg. They sent me one set. I emailed
             | customer service and they charged me for 2 more sets and
             | sent nothing. Never doing business with them again.
        
           | epage wrote:
           | Not like I always get two day shipping anyways. They now
           | shuffle things between warehouses so they can say it shipped
           | in two days (from the closest warehouse) but the effective
           | shipping time can be longer.
        
           | anon7725 wrote:
           | Try B&H next time. AFAIK they still ship everything
           | themselves and don't have marketplace sellers like Newegg or
           | Amazon.
        
             | rqtwteye wrote:
             | And they have the Payboo credit card that gives you back
             | the sales tax.That's significant especially for higher
             | priced items like laptops or cameras,
        
         | xadhominemx wrote:
         | What are your preferred alternatives?
        
           | imglorp wrote:
           | Yes.
           | 
           | The alternative is track down the original, individual vendor
           | and deal with their custom sign up, shopping cart, shipping,
           | and support on their site. Repeat with each different vendor
           | for next purchase.
           | 
           | As much as Amazon hates its customers and vendors, it's got a
           | consistent experience.
        
             | astura wrote:
             | What's wrong with target.com?
        
               | imglorp wrote:
               | I try to patronize the original vendors. The large
               | markets like Walmart and Target squeeze their suppliers
               | hard to widen their margins. So if everything's about
               | equal, I'd rather go to the source, especially if it's a
               | mom and pop so they get a larger cut of the same money.
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | > The alternative is track down the original, individual
             | vendor and deal with their custom sign up
             | 
             | Where are these vendors that require you to sign up before
             | you can buy their stuff? If you don't want to sign up...
             | don't.
        
             | thewebcount wrote:
             | While actually doing the signup is a pain, I just use a
             | "hide-my-email" address and cut it off after I receive the
             | item. And I'd personally prefer to enter my credit card
             | info every time. I once accidentally clicked on the "Yes,
             | sign me up for Amazon Prime today, even though I've turned
             | it down literally hundreds of times," button and they
             | immediately charged my credit card without even an "Are you
             | sure?" Alert. Luckily I was able to cancel and get it
             | refunded relatively easily (after 5 screens of "are you
             | sure?" And "do you want to just pause it for a few
             | months?").
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | Almost everyone, in the UK at least, has a largely seamless
             | experience with PayPal, Google Pay or Apple Pay these days.
             | The shipping address gets auto-completed by interfacing
             | with the payment processor and there's no account sign-up.
             | 
             | And since most of them actually outsource their websites to
             | shopify or whoever, the user experience is basically as
             | consistent as Amazon.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Target
           | 
           | Home Depot
           | 
           | Best Buy
           | 
           | Walmart (this is getting polluted with "vendors")
        
             | mancerayder wrote:
             | Walmart doesn't seem to ship almost anything in my area, it
             | seems to show In Store Pickup only for just about all the
             | items.
        
             | carlivar wrote:
             | Best Buy uses Ontrac shipping in my area and they are
             | awful.
        
               | anon7725 wrote:
               | Cannot say enough bad things about OnTrac. They routinely
               | throw packages at the end of our driveway instead of
               | leaving at the porch like everyone else does.
               | 
               | The end of the (long) driveway is treed so sometimes we
               | are literally hunting in the woods for our package after
               | an OnTrac delivery.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Yeah I'm lucky in that everyone uses UPS or FedEx to
               | reach me.
        
         | socialismisok wrote:
         | It's easy. It's easier to buy there than elsewhere because it's
         | habit.
         | 
         | I stopped prime a couple years ago, I buy from other stores
         | when I can, but sometimes you just need protein powder, spray
         | bottles, stove gaskets, a 300 piece puzzle, and a cello stand.
         | Amazon makes it possible to just buy one spot.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Anything I ingest would not come from Amazon, or rather one
           | of its numerous anonymous, unvetted sellers.
        
             | bloopernova wrote:
             | Agreed. Anything health or pet related is a dangerous
             | gamble with amazon.
        
           | 10729287 wrote:
           | I quit Amazon one year ago and this also made my buying
           | habits healthier. No more impulse buying. Eveything's
           | connected.
        
         | r0fl wrote:
         | Nothing comes close to matching the ease of using amazon. In
         | Canada if I need Kleenex I search kleenex, click buy now and it
         | arrives to my house the same day! Sometimes I have to wait
         | until the next day. The total time spent on the purchase is way
         | under 1 minute.
         | 
         | To use costco I have to buy at least $75 or shipping is not
         | free. Walmart I have to fill out all my personal info and
         | credit card info, and it's never same day shipping and
         | sometimes there is a minimum amount I need to spend.
         | 
         | Driving to a store to pick up an item like this is just a giant
         | waste of my time, gas, increases the chance of someone denting
         | my side door in a parking lot from 0% to more than 0%.
         | 
         | There is no alternative that even comes close for simple items.
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | Don't you consider how wasteful this is? Packaging and
           | transport for a box of tissues, then the packaging to dispose
           | of.
           | 
           | Write yourself a note if necessary (post-it, phone app,
           | whatever) and buy Kleenex the next time you're at the
           | supermarket.
        
         | bumby wrote:
         | My shipping has deteriorated massively in the last couple of
         | years. What used to be 2 day shipping as a prime member is now
         | often as much as 10 days. That, plus all the knock-offs and bad
         | product quality, has made me stop using Amazon for much.
        
           | chrsig wrote:
           | anecdotally, it seems really bimodal for me. Either I can get
           | something same day/overnight, or it'll take a week or more
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | They've built out small, local distribution centers that
             | stock the more commonly ordered items. When you're in an
             | area with one and pick the right item, it comes same or
             | next day.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | - I get items in 1-2 days including fairly niche items. Some
         | items take longer but it's clear which ones and those are just
         | as slow elsewhere.
         | 
         | - I see reviews for the items and some of them aren't fake. The
         | negative reviews with specific issues are particularly
         | important (weak hinge, plastic parts, noisy, difficult warranty
         | support, etc.). I know some other marketplaces either don't
         | have reviews (ebay) or can trivially remove negative reviews
         | (shopify sites).
         | 
         | - I can return items without too much hassle.
        
         | chrsig wrote:
         | one account to buy anything, quickly. having to sign up at a
         | million independent stores sucks
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | Shopify and Apple Pay make it a lot easier than it used to
           | be.
        
             | rednerrus wrote:
             | How do you find the products that you need?
        
               | poooogles wrote:
               | I tend to find `site:reddit.com $product` is often worth
               | a shot.
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | This is no longer reliable as companies know people are
               | searching Reddit so account for it in marketting
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | > Free and fast shipping is no longer exclusive to them
         | 
         | It's much worse than that. They no longer offer fast shipping;
         | you're not allowed to pay for it even if you want it.
        
         | savanaly wrote:
         | I only need to buy something online every couple months, maybe
         | once a month at most. I hate shopping so I'll be damned if I
         | will spend 1 more second thinking about the process than I have
         | to. Amazon always has the thing, ships it in 2 days, I can be
         | relatively sure I'm not getting ripped off by more than +/- 25%
         | and that's good enough for me. I've never had any issues with
         | fakes that HN complains about all the time.
         | 
         | I think Amazon lives off the backs of folks like me, or maybe
         | people that shop slightly more than me but not much. If I was
         | the type of person shopping for things everyday I'd imagine I
         | would branch out. But for the vast majority of folks
         | consistency is king.
        
           | angelbar wrote:
           | >I can be relatively sure I'm not getting ripped off by more
           | than +/- 25% and that's good enough for me.
           | 
           | Look at Keepa for historic prices
        
           | bogomipz wrote:
           | >" I hate shopping so I'll be damned if I will spend 1 more
           | second thinking about the process than I have to. Amazon
           | always has the thing, ships it in 2 days, I can be relatively
           | sure I'm not getting ripped off by more than +/- 25% and
           | that's good enough for me."
           | 
           | My experience before I got rid of Amazon years ago started
           | out similar but then I found that the process of shopping
           | took longer and longer - trying to compare 50+ versions of
           | the same thing, filtering out dubious looking sellers and
           | brands etc. I actually started to feel like the experience
           | was worse than just going to a store and carrying the the
           | thing home. I also started to think the prices weren't really
           | all that great because they became the same or or often
           | slightly more expensive that what I could find in a brick and
           | mortar store. Couple this with a general decline in Amazon's
           | last mile delivery which seemed to be a whole other shit show
           | where the contracting parcel service would mark them as
           | delivered even though they hadn't actually been deliver yet
           | and it just became a really miserable experience. Should you
           | need to contact customer service and speak to someone you can
           | pretty much dispense with another half hour of your time.
           | 
           | >"But for the vast majority of folks consistency is king."
           | 
           | For me there was very little consistency in the Amazon
           | experience. It was hit and miss. From reading this article
           | though it sounds like the thing that is consistent is an
           | increasingly worse experience.
        
           | antisthenes wrote:
           | For me it's the fact that they have literally _everything_ on
           | their store.
           | 
           | I'm not going to go out and make 3 different accounts on
           | sites that aren't Amazon, when I could save time and buy
           | anything ranging from auto parts to PC parts to groceries on
           | the same website.
           | 
           | Yes, a lot of it is rebadged Ali junk, but guess what,
           | sometimes that junk actually does the work it's supposed to.
           | If I'm buying a plastic towel hook for the bathroom, I really
           | don't care where it comes from or if it's 50c cheaper on
           | another website.
        
           | d23 wrote:
           | > I can be relatively sure I'm not getting ripped off by more
           | than +/- 25%
           | 
           | I think this is the only thing keeping them afloat. How are
           | you so sure you're not getting ripped off? Did you know
           | counterfeits can be sold under the "sold by anazon.com"
           | branding because of co-mingling?
           | 
           | I used to have the same view as you until I started getting
           | shoddy products consistently from brands that were otherwise
           | high quality if I purchased in store. Then I realized I had
           | no way to tell if what I was purchasing was real, and I
           | started questioning why the lack of toothpaste I bought
           | tasted different than normal and had off-color printing.
           | 
           | I'm just increasingly finding it not worth the worry,
           | especially for things I put I my body.
        
             | groestl wrote:
             | > How are you so sure you're not getting ripped off?
             | 
             | If you do not _feel_ you've been ripped off, does it
             | matter?
        
               | ncallaway wrote:
               | Yes. I bought a ladle from Amazon. I noticed from some of
               | the comments that a lot of people were getting a knock
               | off ladle.
               | 
               | When I arrived, I checked to see if it was legitimate,
               | and... it was not. It was a knock-off.
               | 
               | It was fine as a ladle. It ladled things. I never
               | would've noticed or complained if I hadn't seen the
               | rules. No harm, no foul, right?
               | 
               | Absolutely not. That day I made a rule that I do not buy
               | anything that goes on your skin, in your body, or health
               | and safety kit from Amazon. If I can't trust their ladles
               | are authentic, I can't trust their sunscreen or
               | thermometers are authentic.
               | 
               | So, while the ladle didn't harm me directly, it did
               | pretty significant change my purchase habits.
        
               | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
               | Well, you don't know that the ladle didn't harm you
               | directly. If it's made of substandard materials that
               | leech carcinogens into your food, the effects might take
               | years to appear.
        
               | fmajid wrote:
               | Or anything that involves electricity.
        
               | ilyt wrote:
               | Yes, as it is preying on the clueless
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Just because you don't realize something gave you cancer
               | doesn't mean you can safely ignore the cancer.
               | 
               | Feeling like you got ripped off is one thing, having your
               | house burn down from faulty electronics is much worse etc
               | etc.
        
               | naijaboiler wrote:
               | bought an apple charger, nearly set my house on fire. I
               | opened up the one I bought from amazon, and the old one I
               | had at home. weight, number of components, etc clearly
               | told me it was a differnt product. Yeah I was done buying
               | anything electronic from amazon.
        
             | nequo wrote:
             | > Did you know counterfeits can be sold under the "sold by
             | anazon.com" branding because of co-mingling?
             | 
             | I have also had a bad experience with "Sold by Amazon.com"
             | so I'm not questioning the veracity of what you are saying.
             | But how does this work? How can someone get a counterfeit
             | product under this umbrella?
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | My understanding is, if I sell an item with a SKU[1]
               | 123456, and use "fulfillment by Amazon" it goes in an
               | Amazon warehouse in a bucket with all the other items of
               | the same SKU using Amazon's shipping. Then my inventory
               | becomes just a number in a database.
               | 
               | People selling DVDs on Amazon were complaining about bad
               | reviews because someone bought from them, but got a
               | counterfeit sold by someone else.
               | 
               | 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_keeping_unit
        
               | i_am_jl wrote:
               | "Sold by Amazon" comingles identical SKUs from different
               | sellers in their warehouses.
               | 
               | Seller A sells real Product Z on Amazon. Seller B sells
               | fake Product Z on Amazon. When you order Product Z that
               | is "Sold on Amazon" you might get a real one provided by
               | Seller A, or you might get a fake one sold by Seller B
        
               | maineldc wrote:
               | I believe what you are saying is possible for "Shipped by
               | Amazon" not "sold by Amazon".
        
               | 0xcde4c3db wrote:
               | I believe your description was accurate before ca. 2015,
               | but at some point they reportedly started making
               | commingling the default even for "Sold by Amazon" items.
               | Commingling isn't the only issue, either; there's still
               | the problem of products for which Amazon was never an
               | authorized retailer and so their listing/SKU may have
               | been created to sell counterfeits in the first place. In
               | any case, there have been multiple lawsuits specifically
               | alleging that counterfeit items were "Sold by Amazon" [1]
               | [2] [3].
               | 
               | [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20201125141347/https://ww
               | w.forbe...
               | 
               | [2] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4495986/1/apple-
               | inc-v-m...
               | 
               | [3] https://www.geekwire.com/2016/daimler-ag-sues-amazon-
               | knockof...
        
             | mynameisvlad wrote:
             | I mean literally the next sentence after your quote says
             | "I've never had any issues with fakes that HN complains
             | about all the time" so I'm pretty positive they do know
             | about it.
        
         | Finnucane wrote:
         | I haven't ordered anything from Amazon in several years and
         | don't miss it. Have stopped going to Whole Foods too.
         | Fortunately I live in an area where I don't need to buy
         | everything online, I can still get most of the things I need
         | locally, and if I don't there's a reputable specialty dealer,
         | or ordering directly from the maker may be possible.
        
         | secondcoming wrote:
         | Yes, the proliferation of stuff being sold by six letter
         | Chinese sellers is incredible. It's basically Ali Express but
         | with faster shipping.
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | Why is that a problem if the items work for their intended
           | purpose?
        
             | astura wrote:
             | Poor quality and potentially unsafe.
        
             | smolder wrote:
             | They often don't, like the extension cord I bought that
             | flips my breaker when I plug it in. I don't want garbage
             | products that were sourced from the dumpster next to a
             | Chinese factory after they make a defective batch.
        
               | mynameisvlad wrote:
               | "Six letter Chinese sellers" does not automatically mean
               | cheap shitty defective rejects. If anything, that's just
               | stereotyping and xenophobia.
               | 
               | For every one of you, I'm sure there's a dozen who have
               | had no issues with the product. And I'm sure there's been
               | plenty of people who have had the same issue with a name
               | brand product that was made in the same factory by the
               | same process and people.
        
               | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
               | Admitting that there's around a 1/13 chance of these
               | products being garbage isn't really a defence. Those are
               | really bad odds.
        
               | smolder wrote:
               | I'm not bagging on Chinese manufacturing in general, they
               | build the worlds stuff, including super high
               | quality+value items. Yet throwaway brands peddling junk
               | that wouldn't have realistically made it onto the shelves
               | of a big box store is a _real problem_ on Amazon 's
               | marketplace, and other similar ones.
        
               | mynameisvlad wrote:
               | > I don't want garbage products that were sourced from
               | the dumpster next to a Chinese factory after they make a
               | defective batch.
               | 
               | > Yet throwaway brands peddling junk that wouldn't have
               | realistically made it onto the shelves of a big box store
               | is a real problem on Amazon's marketplace, and other
               | similar ones.
               | 
               | Either it's a defective batch of products that would have
               | been sold under a brand name or its junk that would have
               | never been sold at all. Both of these can't be true of
               | the same product.
               | 
               | I'd also argue that being sold at a big box store is not
               | really indicative of much in the 21st century.
        
               | kyleplum wrote:
               | > I'd also argue that being sold at a big box store is
               | not really indicative of much in the 21st century.
               | 
               | If you haven't already, I'd recommend spending some time
               | reading about what it takes to get a product on the shelf
               | at Wal-Mart/Target/Costco. When a companies reputation
               | relies on what it is selling, the bar becomes a lot
               | higher.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > "Six letter Chinese sellers" does not automatically
               | mean cheap shitty defective rejects. If anything, that's
               | just stereotyping and xenophobia.
               | 
               | I've seen people complain that the vendor contact info is
               | obfuscated and untraceable when it's obviously the
               | business owner's personal home address. People will say
               | anything about Chinese vendors.
        
           | shellfishgene wrote:
           | As I mentioned above, Amazon now also lists products that are
           | shipped directly from China and take weeks. They have the
           | tracking info from Yanwen shipping on the site, so this must
           | be officially supported.
        
         | dvngnt_ wrote:
         | what sites?
        
         | wpietri wrote:
         | Yeah, I've been weaning myself off Amazon for a while. Now if
         | I'm shopping for something my general approach is to a) look
         | for neutral reviews (e.g. Wirecutter and Consumer Reports), b)
         | see if I can buy it from whoever makes it, and c) search on
         | shopping.google.com to look for reasonable prices from some
         | other vendor.
         | 
         | This is undeniably a little more work that just searching on
         | Amazon and buying the first option. But it's about the same
         | amount of work as using Amazon properly (skipping the sponsored
         | listings, filtering out the dubious non-Amazon sellers,
         | figuring out which reviews are fake, trying to tell whether the
         | nominal maker is a real company versus some weird algorithm
         | cloner or re-reseller, worrying over whether Amazon's
         | inventory-mixing means I'll get a fake, etc).
         | 
         | I still end up buying some things from Amazon, but it's fewer
         | and fewer, and I'm usually happier with the total outcome now.
        
           | fhd2 wrote:
           | I started doing the same 1-2 years ago! Felt bad about giving
           | Jeff Bezos so much money.
           | 
           | At first I thought it was gonna be an impossible effort, but
           | since I'd take Google over Amazon any day (although also not
           | super happily), I do a lot of the last mile (finding a
           | good/non-shady offer for a specific product I've already
           | decided to buy through reviews) there. And usually I find it
           | cheaper with equally fast shipping. For stuff I commonly buy,
           | there are really strong competitors (at least in Germany)
           | that I buy from by going directly to their website.
           | 
           | Had to first realise that a lot of the stuff Amazon was at
           | first unique for, is now pretty much a commodity. And their
           | offering certainly hasn't improved in the last years in my
           | eyes.
        
             | wpietri wrote:
             | For sure. Other places have gotten better, and Amazon has
             | gotten worse for me. The way I interpret it is that Amazon
             | started out with a really strong customer focus, but
             | they've shifted more and more toward revenue maximization
             | at my expense.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > Amazon is unusable at this point, and I don't get how they
         | have so many customers. Free and fast shipping is no longer
         | exclusive to them, and there are others out there with far
         | nicer websites and no shitty ad listings.
         | 
         | I only started using them in 2017 and I still do use them
         | sparingly. But typically only for stuff I buy directly from the
         | brand's store on Amazon.
         | 
         | There are a few brands I still trust. They may all be going
         | downhill at some point and the "official store" may actually be
         | some front for cheap copies that stole the brand name, I don't
         | know... But so far it looks okay to me.
         | 
         | Anker, Osram, Makita, S.T. Dupont (for refills), etc.
         | 
         | Last thing I bought from Amazon from some random brand was a
         | box of 200 firelighters, supposedly ecological. I don't know if
         | the brand is "true" or not, I don't know if they're actually
         | ecological or not (they look like but it may all be a scam)
         | but... They were cheap and they do actually help greatly
         | lighting the fireplace.
         | 
         | So far Anker stuff looks like it's actually Anker stuff. Makita
         | tools do look and feels like Makita tools, etc.
         | 
         | That's why I keep using them.
         | 
         | Now I do find the experience painful and I'm 100% sure that all
         | these identical products but branded different when I search on
         | Amazon for, say, 316L stainless steel are stuff that are going
         | to rust in six months.
         | 
         | So I'd say that people using it because even if Amazon broken,
         | it's still convenient to find all your usual brands in one
         | place.
        
           | thewebcount wrote:
           | > I only started using them in 2017 and I still do use them
           | sparingly. But typically only for stuff I buy directly from
           | the brand's store on Amazon.
           | 
           | Does this work? My spouse recently purchased some 3M N-95
           | masks directly from 3M's Amazon store. They're supposed to
           | arrive in a box that has a code on it which you can enter
           | into 3M's website to verify it's real and not a counterfeit.
           | Instead they arrived in a clear plastic bag with no printing
           | on it. There's no code so I can only assume they're either
           | fakes or were pull from a larger box (which means potentially
           | handled inappropriately). Given my spouse's immune condition,
           | that's not a chance we really want to take so we're going to
           | throw them out.
        
             | pm215 wrote:
             | If you have the time/effort (which I appreciate you may
             | well not -- there's a limit to how much it feels worth
             | trying to tilt against megacorp windmills) it would be
             | better to return them to Amazon, because otherwise it looks
             | to Amazon like a successful purchase. Amazon do at least
             | make returns less hassle than some other e-commerce places
             | I've used.
        
               | dpkirchner wrote:
               | And contact your country's customs agency as they monitor
               | ports and try to watch for counterfeits. Assuming they
               | came from outside the country.
               | 
               | Here's where you can report this fraud in the US:
               | https://www.cbp.gov/trade/e-allegations/violations
        
         | up2isomorphism wrote:
         | Are you sure? I tried at least 4 other online shopping
         | recently, the experience is horrible compared to amazon. There
         | are bunch issues about return that eventually easily cost me
         | more than what prime cost me for one year.
        
           | DoingIsLearning wrote:
           | Are you sure? I tried at least 7 other online shops recently,
           | the experience is amazing compared to amazon.
           | 
           | Returns are as easy as scanning a barcode at the post office.
           | Product reviews are meaningful and don't have bi-modal
           | distributions. Spam and knocks offs are non-existing.
           | 
           | The only downside is that I pay slightly more for shipping
           | but arguably I am biased to believe that logistics couriers
           | should have a living wage.
        
         | q-big wrote:
         | > Amazon is unusable at this point, and I don't get how they
         | have so many customers.
         | 
         | At least in Germany, using Amazon is often the easiest way to
         | buy copies of foreign-language (often, but not always English)
         | textbooks about scientific topics.
        
         | justapassenger wrote:
         | Main reason I still use them is 100% hassle free return policy.
         | I don't stress about buying something crappy, as I know I can
         | return it, in very convenient ways.
        
           | d23 wrote:
           | For some reason that changed for me lately and they no longer
           | do free UPS pickup for returns. I have to go mail them
           | myself, which tips the balance of the return convenience
           | scale for me.
        
             | justapassenger wrote:
             | I have Whole Foods, UPS drop off points, Amazon locker and
             | Kohls all on the routes I frequent. And TBH, I prefer those
             | over UPS pickup as making sure I'm home and running to the
             | door when they arrive is not convenient for me. YMMV.
        
             | markbnj wrote:
             | I rarely have to return things, but when I do have to
             | return something purchased on Amazon it's basically: couple
             | of clicks, get a QR in email, walk into the local UPS store
             | with the item and hand it over, quick scan of the QR and
             | done. Yeah it would be nice if they just sent someone to
             | the house to get the item, but it doesn't surprise me that
             | the economics of that don't work out.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | It's annoying because they used to give you a UPS label
               | you could use, now they make me drive 30 miles to a UPS
               | store.
               | 
               | I _was_ able to get a label for one item and shove all
               | the others in the same box and it worked. For now.
        
           | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
           | Will their return policy rebuild your house when a faulty
           | power adapter burns it down?
        
             | justapassenger wrote:
             | And that's relevant how?
             | 
             | I don't buy unknown Chinese brands for stuff like that. And
             | that's getting harder. But that's a separate issue.
        
               | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
               | "Stuff like that" being what, anything mains-powered,
               | anything with a lithium-ion battery, anything that
               | touches your skin, anything that might get very hot as
               | part of its operation, anything whose continued
               | functionality manages the safe temperature or pressure of
               | anything else, anything that connects to the Internet,
               | anything that stores data, anything that touches food,
               | anything you might ingest or inhale, anything load-
               | bearing, anything that is costly or difficult to remove
               | once installed, any components that fail in a way that
               | damage other components in the same device, anything
               | whose failure would block an ongoing project, anything
               | that seals containers or conduits for liquids or gases,
               | et cetera, et cetera? It turns out that the category of
               | products who can fail in a way that wouldn't be covered
               | by a full refund is actually "most products".
               | 
               | EDIT: Also collectables and randomised products such as
               | trading cards.
        
           | account42 wrote:
           | Similarly, if the parcel service marks it as "attempted
           | delivery not home" (even though I or someone else was home
           | all day) and drops it of at a pickup on the other side of
           | town (even though they have a branch around the corner) I can
           | just order it again and count on amazon to refund the first
           | order (and perhaps demand the delivery service be less shit).
           | For a smaller seller a) I probably need to contact them to
           | get a refund at all, b) more than likely they want me to eat
           | the delivery fee for sending it again and c) even if they
           | cover it they don't have any leverage with the delivery
           | service to be less shit.
        
           | Tempest1981 wrote:
           | I heard that if you return too many items, they threaten to
           | prevent future purchases. Has anyone hit this? What is the
           | return/purchase ratio?
        
             | GingerMidas wrote:
             | I suspect it's more about value of returned items than the
             | quantity. I have returned ~half of the items I purchased in
             | the last year
        
         | lr4444lr wrote:
         | Still worth it to me to avoid the spam of a hundred small
         | companies giving my personal data to SEO and marketing experts
         | to spam me, and despite the improvement in time and cost for
         | individual merchant shipping, I have not seen the reliability
         | of that speed approach anywhere near Amazon or Walmart level.
         | Returns and fraud resolution are also extremely streamlined.
        
       | samhickmann wrote:
        
       | Tepix wrote:
       | Amazon is awful to shop at. I accidentally bought the wrong
       | article twice already because i was searching for something and
       | it showed me something else and i wasn't paying super close
       | attention. It must be contributing to a lot of returns.
       | 
       | These days when i buy something at Amazon it's because i found
       | out _elsewhere_ that one particular product is being offered at a
       | good price there.
        
       | akomtu wrote:
       | Amazon is certainly getting more scummy. Last time I made an
       | order, it sneakily turned one item into a subscription (in a tiny
       | font it said "the next arrival scheduled on...") and stopped
       | showing cost of the faster delivery option it selected without
       | asking me, i.e. it selected the 2nd option which is 3 days
       | earlier, and that option had no price tag on it, only when I
       | chose the slower option, it showed that the faster ootion is 10
       | bucks (on a 30 bucks item).
       | 
       | We are seeing how capitalism is advancing to its next phase:
       | false advertising. Shorty after will follow another phase:
       | extortion (uncancellable subscriptions, automatically signed
       | legal agreements, etc.)
        
       | SoftAnnaLee wrote:
       | > Here's a modest proposal: No more than half of any screen we
       | see at any given time -- be it on desktop web or a smartphone --
       | should contain ads.
       | 
       | I have to say, we have gotten extremely complacent if "half" your
       | page being filled with ads is considered acceptable. I can
       | understand the unfortunate reality that online services need ads
       | to survive, but surely half of a screen is still far from
       | acceptable.
        
         | charcircuit wrote:
         | What's wrong with full screen ads? I honestly don't mind tiktok
         | and reels ads at all despite them taking a full screen.
        
       | Zufriedenheit wrote:
       | I do my online shopping almost exclusively through comparison
       | sites (idealo and geizhals). They have much better filter
       | options. This also overcomes the problem with dynamic pricing
       | where in some cases shops show me >25% higher price if I navigate
       | to them directly as they show me when coming through a price
       | comparison site.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | > idealo
         | 
         | That's a name I haven't heard for a long time. I decade ago, I
         | worked for a company in that space. It was dying back then,
         | getting killed by Google product ads and Amazon.
        
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