[HN Gopher] Staying in Zumthor's Swiss Wooden Cabin
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       Staying in Zumthor's Swiss Wooden Cabin
        
       Author : abhv
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2022-11-22 23:06 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (abhvio.us)
 (TXT) w3m dump (abhvio.us)
        
       | zkdev wrote:
       | What is there to do in a small Swiss village with no shops?
        
         | abhv wrote:
         | Hiking, skiing, exploring. Some people still raise goats,
         | sheep, animals in the high mountain country. They make
         | exquisite local cheese from the milk.
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | Your version of hell is my version of paradise.
        
         | lajosbacs wrote:
         | No shops is a feature.
        
       | ggambetta wrote:
       | Peter Zumthor is one of my favorite architects <3 Therme Vals is
       | just spectacular [0]. Zumthor is all about plain surfaces and 90
       | degree angles (maybe he used the Wolfenstein 3D editor to make
       | his plans?) but somehow Therme Vals feels like being in an
       | underwater cavern.
       | 
       | I don't know if I'd live in a house designed by him (although the
       | author of this article seemed to love it). Might be too
       | minimalistic -- thinking of the Kunsthaus in Bregenz for example.
       | Of course this cabin is made of wood, not concrete. But in terms
       | of a house that feels like a home, I'd go with Alvar Aalto; his
       | designs ooze cozyness in a way that Zumthor's don't, and for a
       | famous architect, they feel surprisingly pragmatic and sensible
       | :)
       | 
       | [0] https://7132.com/en/therme/thermal-baths-and-spa/overview
        
         | abhv wrote:
         | We also visited Therme Vals; that was the point of our trip.
         | While I love the majesty of stone Vals, which have these huge
         | stone slabs that hang above your head with small gaps, his
         | houses in Leis are the human-scale version of his emotional
         | approach to space.
        
         | CaptainZapp wrote:
         | The problem with the Felsentherme is that it was sold off to an
         | investor, who intentionally wanted to make it exclusively
         | available to well heeled hotel guests.
         | 
         | While you can still visit it as a non-guest you need to reserve
         | in advance and prices are 60 francs (~60$) on Monday / Tuesday
         | and 80 francs on other days.
         | 
         | Even though Switzerland is an expensive country such prices for
         | a spa visit without any extras are beyond the outrageous.
        
           | abhv wrote:
           | -- Indeed, we didn't want to support that hotel, which is why
           | we stayed in Leis. I'll add that to my post.
           | 
           | -- Like everything in Switzerland, it was easy to reserve
           | spots online. I think we went on a Monday. Therme Vals is a
           | well-designed space, and the spa experience includes ~18
           | different zones and temperatures. Some of them are gimmicks,
           | but nonetheless delightful play of space, sound, temperature
           | and texture (stone).
           | 
           | Our family isn't into the pampering-spa experience, but I
           | think all of my children can still describe that place 1yr
           | after---worth it for me.
        
           | ggambetta wrote:
           | Hmmm just checked Hurlimann Spa in Zurich and the day pass is
           | CHF 39, so CHF 60 for Therme Vals doesn't look outrageous at
           | all?
           | 
           | Are we even talking about the same complex? Felsentherme is
           | in Austria, apparently?
        
           | lobochrome wrote:
           | In Switzerland everything is expensive, but it is still worth
           | it even at 60 francs.
           | 
           | The poster has a point, though, in that after the sale the
           | vibe changed. The connected hotel used to be reasonably
           | priced for their smaller cabins/rooms to stay the night after
           | a soak in the Therme. Now the entire Hotel is focused on
           | Chinese/middle-eastern wealth clients. They even have (or at
           | least used to last time I checked ~2019) free helicopter
           | pickup within Switzerland if you stay there (as if heli
           | traffic in the valleys wasn't annoying enough already).
           | 
           | I used to go there after hiking in the mountains for a couple
           | of days, and it was a fantastic cap to a short excursion into
           | nature, spent without showers in mountain huts. It's just not
           | possible anymore - and apparently not desired by the new
           | owner.
        
       | cinntaile wrote:
       | Pricey for a wooden cabin... 3100 CHF ~ 3100 euro for a week
       | during low season for the 2 cheapest cabins.
        
         | abhv wrote:
         | low season, long weekend, 1850chf.
         | 
         | We are a family of 5, and in Switzerland, that means 2 hotel
         | rooms x 3 nights. Staying in Zumthor's cabin is certainly a
         | splurge, but marginal utility of staying in a special place
         | well exceeds marginal costs.
         | 
         | Also, if you are irrationally nostalgic like me, the renting
         | experience felt like how airbnb felt in 2011...before all the
         | bad experiences which have swamped it in the last 5yrs
        
       | snickmy wrote:
       | For the architect / construction engineers out there.
       | 
       | I'm always a bit concerned where I see those wood projects I
       | really wonder about two aspects:
       | 
       | 1- thermal conductivity. How well isolated can they be when you
       | have full beams of wood with one side outside and one inside.
       | 
       | 2- durability. I really appreciate wood for SOOO many properties,
       | but what is really the realistic durability of woods? from an
       | ecstatic standpoint, from a maintance standpoint (do I need to
       | regularly treat it), and from a functional standpoint (what
       | happen with heavy duty use)?
       | 
       | Would love some inform opinion
        
         | johnofthesea wrote:
         | 1- Those beams under the roof on the picture are not part of
         | the interior. There is probably some insulation between
         | construction and outside cladding. There is also some in-
         | between construction.
         | 
         | 2- If outside is painted it needs to be repainted at some
         | point. There are also untreated facades or facades treated with
         | fire [0]. Untreated wooden facade must have air gap behind to
         | prevent rot. In case of untreated wood - color and shape is not
         | stable. But in case of facade this is not issue. Structural
         | elements and window/door frames should be treated though.
         | 
         | [0]: ie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakisugi
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | 1. In the winter trees don't freeze solid, and firewood burn
         | rate has an inverse relationship to log diameter.
         | 
         | 2. Wood durability (species and quality being equal) depends on
         | cyclical moisture exposure. Submerged timber can remain intact
         | for centuries. In the rain forest the same wood might rot in a
         | few decades.
         | 
         | From a construction standpoint, the glass in the house would
         | dominate the conductive heat losses of the wall assembly.
         | 
         | From a maintenance standpoint, one piece of old wood is
         | fungible with a new piece and two 2x4's properly nailed
         | together are stronger than a single 4x4...that's why light
         | frame construction uses double top plates, jack studs, etc.
         | 
         | Aesthetically the potential for patina is a reason an architect
         | might choose wood _finishes_.
        
         | whyenot wrote:
         | Wood structures in Switzerland can last an extremely long time.
         | My relatives own a farm in the Bernese Oberland and the main
         | farmhouse/barn is made almost entirely from wood and is at
         | least 300 years old. There is a neighbor's farm house that has
         | wooden beams in it that, after some investigation, the owner
         | thinks are more than 500 years old. Another family member owns
         | a wooden home (near Mammern) that is about 150 years old.
        
         | 13of40 wrote:
         | For the first question, not a perfect answer, but my family
         | owns a log cabin in the Pacific Northwest, and the logs retain
         | heat. Go there any time of the year when nobody's been around
         | for a while and it's like stepping into a refrigerator, but if
         | you light a fire and keep it burning all day, the walls heat up
         | and it gets liveable inside. It's a bit of a downer if you just
         | stop by for lunch, but it's great for a 4-day weekend.
        
         | abhv wrote:
         | 1-- First snow of the season occurred our first night. My
         | memory is that the walls never felt cold. We started a fire
         | using that granite cylinder fireplace. You pack it with about
         | 12 logs, light it and then shut the door tightly. It burns the
         | wood efficiently over several hours and then continues to
         | radiate ten+ hours of heat into the house. Overall: very
         | comfortable.
         | 
         | I think the beams were 6" of solid wood.
         | 
         | 2-- Alpine woods are incredible. The table top in that picture
         | was unfinished. The instructions of the house say that if you
         | spill something, you just wipe it off with a damp rag.
         | 
         | I was terrified of eating fondue or jam-and-bread with my kids
         | there, thinking we would mess up his table. Fact is: we did
         | have spaghetti and spilled sauce, and the damp rag treatment
         | didn't leave any stains.
         | 
         | Zumthor also seems to have a big family and there is evidence
         | his grandchildren operate like normal kids in that place.
         | 
         | My son gave me a wooden box carved from alpine wood, and the
         | maker intentionally kept it unfinished. The maker told me that
         | the oils in the alpine wood provide a natural protection; +1 yr
         | later and that box sits in our kitchen holding salt. It has
         | developed a natural patina despite lots of mid-sautee grabs,
         | opens, and pinches.
         | 
         | TLDR: like cedar, ipe, and other special woods, I think the
         | wood used to build this house will last a long time in that
         | natural environment.
        
           | snickmy wrote:
           | Fascinating. thank you for sharing
        
       | huhtenberg wrote:
       | In related news, the Villa Vals featured on Netflix Most
       | Extraordinary Homes series (with a hobbit-like circular facade,
       | dug into the steep slope with an access tunnel) is also available
       | for rent
       | 
       | https://www.villavals.ch/
       | 
       | Also remote as heck, rented for several days at a time and with
       | pretty much nothing to do there, but eat. Fantastic build though.
        
       | dpatru wrote:
       | The cabin's webpage is here:
       | https://zumthorferienhaeuser.ch/m/en/homes/oberhus
       | 
       | It shows the floor plan.
        
       | michaelbenjamin wrote:
       | beautiful pictures! sounds isolated but that's part of the appeal
       | I guess. interesting that it isn't better known given how famous
       | Zumthor is, thanks for your post!
        
       | cassepipe wrote:
       | I am disappointed there's no mention of energy
       | management/insulation. Seems even more relevant for a high
       | altitude cabin, living far away from civilization. What's its
       | impact on its environment? For the price of the stay for a week,
       | I would expect something clever on that aspect of the building.
        
         | ThePadawan wrote:
         | It might not seem like that to the author.
         | 
         | This cabin is at ~1500 meters of altitude, in a village with a
         | road and several other buildings. For rural Switzerland, that's
         | not living far away from civilization - that's just living in
         | civilization. I would even assume you get normal postal service
         | like every other place in Switzerland not separated from the
         | outside world by cable car.
         | 
         | I'm sure it's worth investigating about the architecture of
         | e.g. the huts of the Swiss Alpine Club [0]. These are up there
         | in the ~3000 meters range, only accessible by multi-hour hikes
         | and only seasonally maintained. German-language Wikipedia has a
         | great lot of information and pictures [1].
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Alpine_Club
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_H%C3%BCtten_des_Schw...
        
           | abhv wrote:
           | I totally agree with you. The hutli experience is also very
           | special for different reasons.
        
         | galfarragem wrote:
         | It's a wood plancks cabin with rockwool insulation in the
         | middle of the wall. I believe central heating works via wood
         | burn.
        
       | galfarragem wrote:
       | Architect here.
       | 
       | An analogy: staying in an (artist) architect house is like having
       | a meal in a Michelin restaurant.
        
         | abhv wrote:
         | +1 even more so, because I could see the small flaws and gaps
         | that Zumthor may tolerate in a personal dwelling, but may not
         | fly in large-scale projects.
         | 
         | Lesson for me: perfection isn't necessary for the experiences I
         | want from exceptional architecture.
        
         | googlryas wrote:
         | Wouldn't it be more like Thomas Keller cooking you whatever he
         | is having on a random Thursday night? Executed with style, but
         | not overbearingly perfect like one might expect from a 3
         | Michelin star restaurant.
        
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