[HN Gopher] Alertness associated with last night's sleep, physic...
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Alertness associated with last night's sleep, physical activity and
food intake
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 151 points
Date : 2022-11-23 14:41 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
| _JoRo wrote:
| A few things I have found work well for maintaining energy levels
| and maximizing productivity levels throughout the day.
|
| 1. Only eat foods high in carbohydrates around the time you
| exercise. (Reduce carbohydrates on days that you don't exercise)
|
| 2. Workout in the morning or afternoon (ideally afternoon).
| (Working out at night will disrupt sleep and I have found that
| working out in the morning slightly decreases energy levels in
| the afternoon compared to working out in the afternoon.)
|
| 3. Avoid eating 6+ hours before going to bed.
|
| 4. Try to do some light exercise (walking/stretching) after you
| eat.
|
| 5. Make sure you're consistently drinking water throughout the
| day (a little bit less around the times you eat).
|
| 6. Only go to bed when you're like 8+/10 tired (time asleep
| doesn't matter much if the quality is slow)
|
| 7. Avoid screen time at least 1 hour before bed (this is
| basically a must to achieving 6...)
|
| 8. Wake up (get up) when you wake up relatively alert or when you
| have to get up. If you always stay in bed until you have to get
| up then you're probably not aligning your waking time with your
| sleep cycle which means you'll be more tired throughout the rest
| of the day
|
| There are actually a lot of other things that I think help as
| well (diet, meditation, etc...) but I didn't want to make this
| post any longer than it is.
|
| Lastly, I just wanted to say that having sleep aligned is SO
| important because it improves our energy/emotional state which
| ultimately assists us with other productive activities. (it's
| really a productivity multiplier)
| aenis wrote:
| Interesting. Anecdotally, I do feel way sharper, eloquent and
| wittier when I am on low-carb, fasting-often-and-long diet I
| practice between September and March. I tend to feel sleepy and
| bloated on a high carb diet I do most of the summer (and that's
| not sweets or soda, it's just adding bread and pasta). I do a lot
| of fasted cardio, including things like cycling 200km during a
| 36hr or 72hr fast. I do software design for a living, so
| generally have to think hard with some regularity :-)
| InCityDreams wrote:
| As a 200km+ cyclist, at what times of the day do you eat? Eu or
| US based?
|
| Interested, as i've never tried seasonal variations, as opposed
| to daily/ weekly.
|
| I do whack in the sugars, though pre-ride (day before) and then
| fast until finished, whatever the distance. Eating during,
| bloats me and i mentally just kinda give up.
| civopsec wrote:
| It makes sense that the average person would feel less alert
| without breakfast since they're not used to low-carb.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| Tom Rath's book "Eat, Move, Sleep" reinforces this same simple
| message. It seems like common sense to me, but for those who want
| the science, there you go.
| gchamonlive wrote:
| Rest, exercise and nutrition are the pillars of health. No
| surprise there whatsoever. It is understandable that they have
| cognitive impact on alertness too. It is interesting therefore to
| see this connection explored.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Associating all these health markers (sleep, activity, diet) with
| an actual result is cool and something more fitness apps should
| do. Right now you can setup tracking for all these things
| relatively easy but the purpose of tracking them seems to be
| vaguely feeling "good" or losing weight. The apps encourage you
| to sleep a certain amount and exercise but it seems difficult to
| correlate those numbers with performing something you care about
| at a higher level.
|
| I usually just say something like "yeah I guess I have been
| feeling more focused lately" but that seems pretty subjective.
| ouid wrote:
| >seems pretty subjective.
|
| The gold standard of medical evidence is the clinical endpoint.
| How someone feels after receiving treatment is subjective, but
| is is subjective per subject, so the subject in the numerator
| cancels with the one in the denominator, and the result is an
| objective measurement.
| ericmcer wrote:
| There are so many instances of people feeling they are doing
| well when the objective measure reveals that they are not.
| The Dunning Kruger effect became a meme because people are so
| bad at objectively measuring their own performance.
|
| It is philosophical whether feeling you are doing good is
| more important than actually doing well, but for a metrics
| based study like the one this thread is based around I want
| objective measurements.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| Can recommend http://intervals.icu
|
| Request it, it may get done.
| tylerneylon wrote:
| I was actually a bit surprised by the low regression coefficient
| values in figure 3. To me, the low values say that many of those
| features are not hugely important. The authors don't emphasize
| this, but they also found that going to sleep _later_ correlated
| with higher morning alertness.
|
| My own takeaway from the data is a bit different from what the
| authors say conversationally (vs in the figures). I'd summarize
| the paper, mostly based on figure 5b, as:
|
| Try to be happy, old, sleep well, and don't eat too frequently.
|
| In terms of breakfast, the data's main conclusions are to avoid a
| lot of sugar (which is hugely important), and to wait a while
| before eating breakfast (see fig 3).
| Cruncharoo wrote:
| _they also found that going to sleep later correlated with
| higher morning alertness_
|
| I always found this to be true for myself--if I got 6 hours of
| sleep I'd be much more alert in the morning than if I got 8.
| sidpatil wrote:
| This could have to do with whether you're waking up _in
| between_ versus _in the middle of_ a sleep cycle. From what I
| understand, the former is preferable to the latter.
| _JoRo wrote:
| I've always feel like I get my best quality sleep when I go
| to bed extremely tired.
| sedeki wrote:
| Same here. But I always associated it with stress.
| xeromal wrote:
| I feel the same way but after wearing a heart rate monitor,
| it definitely detects a higher daily average heart rate so
| it can't be healthy.
|
| Normal days: 50-55bpm
|
| Low sleep days: 63-68bpm
| NathanielK wrote:
| I've noticed similar. I've woken up early, taken my pulse
| and notice it was a bit high and used that to decide to
| go back to sleep.
| ilyt wrote:
| Well, it is "morning alertness", from what I've observed on
| myself "bad" (whether short or interrupted) sleep have far
| higher negative impact on rest of the day than morning.
| gnulinux wrote:
| To me it's the exact opposite. I usually end up feeling much
| better later in the day if I can't sleep but mornings are
| absolutely brutal. Even if I sleep well, I feel a bit groggy
| in early mornings; if I didn't sleep well I'm a complete
| zombie, but later in the day I will feel better, hopefully.
| szundi wrote:
| Same here
| GeorgeTirebiter wrote:
| These sound like perhaps conditions that CPAP would help?
| [deleted]
| msluyter wrote:
| Related: anecdotally, morning sunlight really improves my overall
| sleep. Learned about it here:
|
| https://hubermanlab.com/sleep-toolkit-tools-for-optimizing-s...
| Swizec wrote:
| Anecdotally this feels like "D'oh! Who would've thought your mind
| works better when it's rested and fueled!?"
|
| But it's nice that someone did a science about it. Now can they
| someone figure out why as a person this finding is the last thing
| I think of when going through a day in a cranky fuzzy mood
| thinking "why the hell am I feeling this way!?"
|
| However, this finding from the abstract caught my eye:
|
| > a breakfast rich in carbohydrate, and a lower blood glucose
| response following breakfast
|
| Not a nutritionist, but based on all the other stuff I've read,
| how does high carb + low glucose work together? Doesn't high carb
| lead to high glucose response?
| purpleflame1257 wrote:
| You can select carbohydrates with a low glycemic index (meaning
| that your blood sugar rises more slowly). For example, oatmeal
| has a glycemic index of 55, and pure glucose has a glycemic
| index of 100, meaning oatmeal spikes your blood sugar only 55%
| as much. This is true even for two items with identical
| calories.
| o_____________o wrote:
| This and the other food you're eating with the carbs, like
| the amount of fat and fiber.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| The glucose reponse depends on your ability to process the
| carbs.
|
| My take is that carbs are good for fueling performance but I've
| also had the experience of losing significant weight with a
| high-protein diet and putting on muscle mass. I schedule
| exercise around my ability to digest: on a totally empty
| stomach I can do very little, but a full stomach demands energy
| to digest and can lead to vomiting, fainting, etc.
|
| I would like to practice intermittent fasting but what I find
| when I don't eat at all in the evening is that I can lay in bed
| all night and not sleep a wink.
| gigaflop wrote:
| My take on IF is to skip 'breakfast', and allow myself to eat
| between lunchtime and late evening.
|
| Sleeping means I'm not eating, and no morning meal saves me a
| few minutes of time and effort. It also means that it's
| easier for me to not screw up my IF if I want to go out to
| eat with people, since few are interested in dining out early
| in the day.
|
| Working out midday before lunch is a new challenge for me,
| and I'm still getting into the hang of it, as opposed to
| after work hours. I still start yawning whenever I get to the
| gym, and I definitely don't have the same amount of
| performance, but I'm trying to get myself into it.
| matwood wrote:
| > Working out midday before lunch is a new challenge for
| me, and I'm still getting into the hang of it, as opposed
| to after work hours.
|
| For me, once I got over the initial hump, my workouts
| before my first feeding are great. I have tons of energy,
| and am just ready to go. That initial hump was a little
| rough as I used to eat breakfast as soon as I got up. Now,
| I only start to notice real hunger if I skip breakfast and
| lunch.
| gigaflop wrote:
| I have more 'work' to do in figuring out where my pre-gym
| yawning comes from, but tend to have my burst of
| clarity/energy once I'm done. Maybe it has something to
| do with sitting for so long? Not sure yet.
| ilyt wrote:
| I do pretty much one meal a day (second "meal" being cocoa or
| coffe with milk in the morning) but it took slowly cutting
| meals over time + eating more filling and slower digesting
| stuff overall.
|
| Like replacing egg + toast with egg + some diced potatoes and
| onion pan-fried with the egg will probably keep you sated for
| longer.
|
| Now the hunger comes in slowly and _generally_ I feel a tiny
| bit of hunger when I fall asleep, wake up hungry, get my
| glass of milky drink for the "breakfast" to keep hunger at
| bay for next 2-3 hours, then get/cook something for dinner.
| Swizec wrote:
| Long distance running helped me with this. Don't know if it's
| the running itself or the metabolism training that comes with
| it.
|
| When you burn 3000+ calories in 4 hours, that's like sped up
| fasting. No way to eat that much. So you learn to function
| and perform while hungry.
| nanomonkey wrote:
| Most people that practice intermittent fasting eat their meal
| in the evening so that they can go to bed well fed. This
| allows your body to rest and digest at the same time. The
| fasting window is from your last meal until mid day the
| following day.
| torstenvl wrote:
| > _how does high carb + low glucose work together?_
|
| Not always, but typically, higher-fiber carbs don't spike your
| blood glucose as much.
|
| Practically, this means having steel cut oatmeal for breakfast
| instead of Cheerios. Prepare them savory instead of sweet, like
| you might with grits.
|
| Steel cut oatmeal + an egg + 1tbsp cottage cheese + hot sauce
| is an amazing breakfast
| matwood wrote:
| > Steel cut oatmeal + an egg + 1tbsp cottage cheese + hot
| sauce is an amazing breakfast
|
| I don't eat breakfast b/c of IF, but damn, this made me
| hungry.
| recyclelater wrote:
| I used to think the same thing, but tried a continuous
| glucose monitor. I found out steel cut oats were actually
| really bad for my glucose levels, spiking them into unhealthy
| levels around 160. More than whole wheat bread and other
| carbs.
|
| Obviously this is highly subjective from person to person
| however reading other anecdotal evidence from people who have
| used a CGM, it's pretty common.
|
| In other words don't assume it's a low glycemic food because
| the internet says it is.
| gwd wrote:
| Oatmeal + peanut butter + fruit (blueberries, strawberries,
| kiwi, banana, or raisins if you happen to run out of fresh
| fruit) is a good option too. The fruit has sugar, but not
| much, and anyway has fiber and vitamins to balance things
| out.
| veqq wrote:
| jkeddo wrote:
| I recommend every single person I know to screen themselves for
| Sleep Apnea -- My doctor estimates 30% of the population has it
| and most people go their whole lives without ever knowing.
|
| Personally, my CPAP has boosted by daily energy/wakefulness
| _tremendously_ , I feel at least 40% more energy each morning
| when I get a perfect CPAP adherence overnight, and I only had a
| minor/moderate case. If you snore, you probably have it without
| knowing.
|
| Please get checked and make your life much better!
| pedalpete wrote:
| 30% of the population do not have Apnea. Initial estimates in
| research were 3%, then a few years ago we started seeing
| numbers in the 8% to 12%. I have never seen a research paper
| that suggests anywhere near 30%, but that number gets batted
| around a bunch.
|
| I'm not going to say Apnea isn't a problem. It is. I'm happy it
| made your life better.
|
| If you snore, you do not "probably" have apnea.
| TurboHaskal wrote:
| Ah, the usual thing.
|
| I can feel more focused and with increased alertness by fasting,
| avoiding sugar and taking plenty of stimulants.
|
| Now what does this do to the suprarenal glands on the long term?
| What about TSH?
|
| No one cares about that it seems. We feel "good", so it must be
| good.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Intermittent fasting has been life changing.
|
| Only eating between 5-9 pm means a deep sleep from digestion of
| 2500 calories. Also, skipping lunch prevents the post lunch
| tiredness which would reduce my physical activity so I can more
| easily stay on my feet at least 12 hours a day.
| ilyt wrote:
| I did that for long time, just one big meal in the evening, but
| over time I figured out that for me it works better to move it
| earlier (say noon) as it makes easier to fall asleep. Food
| before bed kinda does opposite for me, I stay longer than I
| want after.
|
| It took a bunch of time to get used to longer breaks between
| meals but I can go for whole day without food without feeling
| all that much hunger. Dropping fast metabolizing foot also
| helped with that.
|
| Only time where food makes me sleepy is if I had a lot after a
| period of average negative calorie intake, my body just goes
| "okay we sleep now" regardless of time of day.
| taeric wrote:
| This feels like "alertness associated with other positive health
| traits."
|
| That is, I don't think most people or animals choose to lower
| their physical activity just because they can. Often lowering any
| of those is due to onset of sickness and you can observe this in
| pets.
|
| Reading over the above, I do want to underline that this is still
| worth studying. I just hate that the reporting on it is painting
| a one-way causal link.
|
| I also think the amount of psychological tricks that are employed
| against people is absurdly high. Such that the reasons we overeat
| or just eat the wrong things are as likely not about cravings you
| would have absent the effort companies put into giving you these
| cravings.
| civopsec wrote:
| > This feels like "alertness associated with other positive
| health traits."
|
| Going to bed later was also associated with alertness.
| taeric wrote:
| Ah, good point. For that, I would simply rephrase that too
| much sleep is also bad. Which, is a less controversial way of
| framing it. And still fits with my generic framing.
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