[HN Gopher] Human-level play in the game of Diplomacy by combini...
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Human-level play in the game of Diplomacy by combining language
models
Author : jdkee
Score : 106 points
Date : 2022-11-22 15:47 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.science.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.science.org)
| erehweb wrote:
| "In a game in which dishonesty is commonplace, it is notable that
| we were able to achieve human-level performance by controlling
| the agent's dialogue through the strategic reasoning module to be
| largely honest and helpful to its speaking partners."
| bpodgursky wrote:
| Well, yes, "largely" honest, until the critical moment when you
| stab to take 18 supply centers to win the game.
|
| You don't win Diplomacy by _staying_ honest, you win by
| choosing the right moment to make the move and burn that trust.
| It 's the 5% dishonesty that matters.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| It's interesting and I think significant that people are
| uncomfortable with positive values, such as honesty, doing
| good for others, responsibility to others, right (not wrong),
| etc. We shoot them down, similar to how people instinctively
| cut off a conversation going in an uncomfortable direction,
| often without even realizing it.
|
| I can't attribute that the parent - I don't know the
| individual - but I expected a chorus of such responses. I
| feel like I can see them squirming in their seats ...
|
| But I feel it too. There's societal pressure _against_ doing
| good. It 's often more socially comfortable to throw a
| cigarette butt on the ground than to pick one up and discard
| it. That's bizarre, it's perverse incentives, and we can and
| should change it.
| svnt wrote:
| I think what you've identified is a societal immune
| response to predictable morality being systematically
| exploited by amoral actors to gain wealth and standing.
|
| I also think there is a big gap between what most people
| advise and what they ultimately do that biases toward the
| right thing. That is, people indicate they will not be
| moral in order to dissuade others who might try to exploit
| it, but in the end they generally behave morally.
|
| Personally I will advise other people to be cautious while
| repeatedly leaving myself open to being taken advantage of.
| It almost never happens, and you learn to identify those
| who will.
|
| Of course this all pivots when/if you enter corporate
| leadership and part of your job is to use the
| morality/comfort of others as part of the container for
| getting your role accomplished.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| When people are concerned about AI alignment, they are not
| concerned about an AI that is a pathological liar, lying
| for no reason.
|
| They are concerned about an AI which is believable day-to-
| day but is secretly optimizing for its own goals, which are
| only exposed when it eventually makes a deceitful move it
| cannot disguise, but succeeds because it now has sufficient
| control.
|
| That's literally what the AI is doing here; being honest
| until the moment it is able to stab everyone else and throw
| them under the table.
| zemvpferreira wrote:
| It's perfectly reasonable to advise against good values in
| a game that's won by people who strategically abandon
| theirs. If you want to win, that's the strategy to follow.
|
| Not necessarily a lesson for life unless you view life as a
| finite game to be won. But in that case, it's probably the
| best strategy as well.
|
| I don't view life like that and I'm guessing you don't as
| well, but I'd advise anyone to be cautious of their
| interactions with people who play to win.
| sdenton4 wrote:
| This is one of the key insights in playing Diplomacy well. You
| can turn honest opposition in the early game into trust, which
| is helpful for flipping allegiances in the late game. ('Yes,
| I've been trying to murder you the entire game, but I've been
| honest about it, and never lied to you once. Now I see that
| we've got a real opportunity to dislodge Russia and sweep the
| eastern half of the board if we work together... What do you
| say?') Dishonesty means people don't want to work with you,
| because you are not a dependable partner. So you gotta make
| sure that any lies you tell pay off /big./
| k647634s wrote:
| Metacelsus wrote:
| Demis Hassabis had better watch out! (Besides being CEO of
| Deepmind he is also a top Diplomacy player)
| pesenti wrote:
| Code: https://github.com/facebookresearch/diplomacy_cicero
|
| Blog: https://ai.facebook.com/blog/cicero-ai-negotiates-
| persuades-...
|
| Site: https://ai.facebook.com/research/cicero/
|
| Expert player vs. Cicero AI:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5192bvUS7k
|
| RFP: https://ai.facebook.com/research/request-for-
| proposal/toward...
| gpvos wrote:
| dup of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33706750
| evanb wrote:
| Great, let's definitely teach computers to play a game that
| requires strategic thinking, a robust theory of mind, the
| capacity to lie convincingly to your enemies, and well-timed
| betrayal, with the goal of world domination. Can't see any ways
| for that to go wrong.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| One more: it's Facebook or all places teaching them
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