[HN Gopher] TinyLLama - A Tiny x86 Retrocomputer
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TinyLLama - A Tiny x86 Retrocomputer
Author : gattilorenz
Score : 98 points
Date : 2022-11-22 07:33 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| psychphysic wrote:
| Love it. There's a decent number of these still available for
| commercial applications.
|
| I'll have to dig it out but there was a guy who got a game
| running on a dosboard used in a piece commercial kitchen
| hardware[0-1].
|
| And even "gaming" machines[2]. I bet LGR on YouTube would love
| it.
|
| [0] https://youtu.be/BdSJgoP2a88
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/8fSdLKx5HlU
|
| [2] https://youtu.be/USHvvSbYmJA
| snvzz wrote:
| Is this CPU similar to a Pentium in terms of protected mode /
| virtual memory?
|
| i.e. can it run netbsd? linux? Even if uninterested in doing so,
| I'd like to have a grasp of what sort of compatibility this
| relatively unknown cpu has.
| gattilorenz wrote:
| It should be relatively easy to get Linux running on it,
| especially in text mode. But why would you do that? Wouldn't a
| raspberry be a better option for that?
| snvzz wrote:
| Again,
|
| >I'd like to have a grasp of what sort of compatibility this
| relatively unknown cpu has.
|
| I do not plan to run Linux on this. But I might want to run
| MenuetOS[0], KolibriOS[1], Aros[2], ZealOS[3], to give you
| some examples.
|
| 0. https://www.menuetos.net/
|
| 1. https://kolibrios.org/en/
|
| 2. https://aros.sourceforge.io/
|
| 3. https://zealos.net/
| gattilorenz wrote:
| I assume the main challenge for these others is drivers.
| Linux does run on it, but apparently only few selected
| distributions: https://www.vortex86.com/news/2
| snvzz wrote:
| If drivers are an issue on Linux, I'd expect them to be
| an issue in DOS, too.
|
| DOS programs (incl. games) do like to hit the hardware
| directly after all.
| [deleted]
| aa-jv wrote:
| I love it that the RaspberryPi has become an expansion-adapter
| for projects like this. That 486 is getting so much more out of
| life for the fact of having an ARM co-processor.
|
| It is such an excellent example of accessorized computing. Note
| that its not just for things like retro-emulation of sounds cards
| - folks have built new synthesizer and audio-processing platforms
| around the concept, too.
|
| What's really great is that this allows entirely generations of
| hackers to get to know and understand the PC architecture in an
| environment that is conducive to further creative hacking. I've
| been teaching my kids' and their friends a bit about assembly
| language, using an old 8088-based PC with DEBUG.COM onboard for
| simplicity, and this TinyLLama may well be the next best thing ..
| Teknoman117 wrote:
| Is the Vortex86EX the only remaining i486 processor in
| production?
| actionfromafar wrote:
| I think it has 586 instructions, but speed is like a 486.
| speed_spread wrote:
| Does it run like a 300Mhz 486 would or is the IPC so bad that
| the clock boost is all wasted compensating for silicon design
| limitations?
| timschmidt wrote:
| Intel Quark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quark) has
| been updated with 586 instructions, but is still built around
| the 486's 5 stage pipeline.
| Teknoman117 wrote:
| I thought Quark was out of production at this point (last
| shipment was supposedly July 2022).
|
| And yeah, I remember all the segfault fun trying to get a
| generic Linux distro running on it at a hackathon back in
| 2014.
| soneil wrote:
| I had the same issue - iirc it's a 486 with _some_ Pentium
| extensions. It has enough of the 586 set to fool you into
| thinking it is one, but not enough to fool glibc. So you
| need to have glibc specifically built for i486 otherwise
| life gets dark.
| fsiefken wrote:
| Great! i have a huge 486 with soundblaster awe32 laying around to
| run the future mind dos based mindmachine. I only have to hook up
| a parallel port converter to this board which is probably larger.
| But AWE support is lacking... could it be emulated somehow? Or
| perhaps I could use Dosbox on a raspberry pi.
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| It mentions specifically DOS - Would it be able to boot and
| successfully run Windows 95/98? There's a lot of games from that
| period that would fun to play again without broken emulators
| (qemu, etc).
| VLM wrote:
| No, well, not supported anyway
|
| https://www.vortex86.com/news/3
|
| The column you're looking for is the VEX model of chip
|
| Every chip in their lineup can run W95 except the EX series and
| the VDX3 can run Win7. I don't know the technical reason why,
| obviously some chipset feature that W95 really needs.
|
| I was pretty interested in this hardware when it was new and
| I'm happy to still see it actively discussed.
| leeter wrote:
| Short answer: Maybe[1]
|
| Longerish answer: Still maybe, drivers are going to be an
| issue. Just because the thing can boot into a DOS compatible
| mode doesn't mean it will have windows 9x compatible drivers.
| Having DOS drivers does not also make something automagically
| windows 9x compatible either[2]. That said it should be
| plausible to get a board like Rastari did that is fairly
| compatible because industrial reasons. But it does mean you
| have to pick carefully.
|
| [1] https://www.vortex86.com/news/3 [2]
| https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20071224-00/?p=24...
| vanderZwan wrote:
| > _There 's a lot of games from that period that would fun to
| play again without broken emulators (qemu, etc)._
|
| Not to mention the nominative determinism that is getting
| Winamp to run on this.
| ihatepython wrote:
| Just a sidenote, I have been able to run Windows 98 on an Ivy
| Bridge computer (an Optiplex). PCI cards work if you have
| drivers (I have a Soundblaster PCI128). My main motivation has
| been for MIDI, (Cubase 2.8). I haven't tried any games. When
| installing, run "setup.exe /p i" to disable ACPI which will
| mess up the installation.
| peter_d_sherman wrote:
| Absolutely brilliant! Well done!
|
| On behalf of the open source/open hardware enthusiast community,
| _thank you, thank you, thank you!_
|
| Also, I think that it might potentially be a good idea -- to
| start a Kickstarter campaign!
|
| You could probably make a few $$$'s (or 'kr's, since you're in
| Norway!) -- ("beer money") -- from a small ethical profit margin
| -- while providing the community with this absolutely stellar
| piece of open hardware! A win-win!
|
| Anyway, absolutely great work!
| rob74 wrote:
| I guess the obligatory question "will it run Doom?" answers
| itself in this case...
| VLM wrote:
| This one has been making the rounds. Three cool things oft
| overlooked:
|
| 1) Its double-retro in the sense that the 86duino is a decade
| old, so you've got the retro dos under the retro hardware in 2022
| almost 2023. Cool!
|
| 2) The 86duino is a window into an alternate history where
| "something desktop-ish" got wedged into the existing Arduino form
| factor and electronic API, kind of, whereas IRL we all know the
| RasPi did its own thing. Its not as simple as "a Pi in the shape
| of an arduino mega or uno" but conceptually its like that.
| Sometimes in the real world, backward compatibility with The
| Standard just doesn't sell in the marketplace.
|
| 3) There was a time in the early days of the 86duino where you
| could buy "arduino form factor boards" with memory sizes ranging
| from individual bytes up to a fraction of a gig on the 86duino. I
| think this might be the widest range in the entire history of
| computing. IBM's 360 series and DEC's numerous PDP8
| implementations never came close to this range. It would be like
| having the Wright Flyer and the SR-71 in commercial production
| and sale at the same time. The closest analogy I can come up with
| would be 1970s ham radio equipment where you had some people
| selling vacuum tube kits/gear and some people selling
| microprocessor driven kits/gear (well, toward the very end of the
| 70s...) both on the market at the same time. Sometimes tech moves
| faster than business, most times it doesn't.
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