[HN Gopher] Is it time to retire the .gb top level domain?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Is it time to retire the .gb top level domain?
        
       Author : robin_reala
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2022-11-21 07:43 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cddo.blog.gov.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cddo.blog.gov.uk)
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | gb is a legacy of an earlier system when a naming system in the
       | UK was big-endian: gb.ac.cambridge etc (example; I no longer
       | remember any of them for real).
       | 
       | But it ought to be appropriate for entities in GB but not in the
       | UK, such as Isle of Man, Channel Islands, post-independent
       | Scotland (whose members could also use .EU again).
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | I think it should be handed over to the Game Boy emulation
       | community.
       | 
       | That is, provided that Baron Silas Greenback doesn't attempt to
       | steal it in his bid to rule the world.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | So even if they retire it, I could never get a .GB domain? If
       | that is the case I would much rather they keep it as it is.
        
       | Already__Taken wrote:
       | I mean, lets get a couple more general elections done and see if
       | we keep NI and Scotland...
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | "The United Kingdom of England and Wales" still theoretically
         | works.
        
           | frivoal wrote:
           | That country could have an interestingly named neighbor: if
           | Ireland and Scotland band together, they could be the United
           | Republic of Ireland and Northern Great Britain.
        
           | smcl wrote:
           | I think they'd continue to refer to it as such but to me it
           | feels a little odd. The "United Kingdom" was originally a
           | union of the kingdoms of Scotland and England, the latter
           | having already conquered and absorbed Wales. Losing one
           | former-kingdom of that union and maintaining you're the
           | "United Kingdom" feels a bit dishonest, a little bit
           | "Democratic People's Republic ..." :)
           | 
           | "The Kingdom of England and Wales" makes more sense but "KEW"
           | and "EW" sound odd as acronyms, and will just lead to most of
           | the world referring to the place as "England" (as many in the
           | USA currently do tbh). That is, if they decide to keep the
           | monarchy...
        
             | Wildgoose wrote:
             | I think it would become simply "Britain", seeing as
             | "Britannia" originally referred to the Roman colonies of
             | England and Wales.
             | 
             | "Great Britain" is the whole island (including Scotland).
             | 
             | "United Kingdom" would require continued Union with either
             | Scotland or Northern Ireland.
        
               | synotna wrote:
               | The predecessor to the UK before Ireland was the Kingdom
               | of Great Britain, so would be correct to go back to
               | afterwards
               | 
               | Of course to save money (and face) it probably wouldn't
        
               | smcl wrote:
               | "Britain" or "Kingdom of Britain" is a good idea, I
               | hadn't considered that
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | Normille wrote:
               | TRIVIA CORNER:
               | 
               | In Irish Gaelic the island of Great Britain is _Breatain
               | Mhor_ [Big Britain] and _Breatain Bheag_ [Little Britain]
               | is the name for Wales. Obviously coming from the
               | historical fact [much trumpeted by the Welsh] that they
               | were the original Brits, driven into the mountainous west
               | by the Saxon invaders. England in Irish is _Sasana_
               | [obviously referring to Saxons] thus making an Englishman
               | a _Sasanach_
               | 
               | NOTE: These terms are similar in Scottish Gallic too.
               | Hence the widely known Scots usage of _Sasanach_ as a
               | derogatory term for an English person which, in reality,
               | means calling them a  'Saxon'.
        
               | dane-pgp wrote:
               | If we're digging up weird etymological trivia, I will
               | contribute the fact that the old Celtic word Iweriu (from
               | which we get the name Eire) was interpreted by the
               | ancient Greeks as Iouernia, leading to Tacitus calling
               | the island Hibernia (influenced by the Latin word
               | hibernus, thinking that it meant "land of winter").
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernia
        
               | smcl wrote:
               | I really appreciate these little tangents, got a good
               | couple of "TIL"s from this thread
        
             | synotna wrote:
             | United Kingdom came from the GB+Ireland, not England &
             | Scotland
             | 
             | England + Scotland were the Kingdom of Great Britain
        
               | smcl wrote:
               | Ah good point, but the scenario in question involved both
               | Ireland and Scotland leaving so "Great Britain" doesn't
               | fit either.
        
               | synotna wrote:
               | If both leave, then the predecessor to the Kingdom of
               | Great Britain was the Kingdom of England
               | 
               | Wales was already part of England, as principality /
               | having been conquered
               | 
               | Though "United Kingdom of England" could argue that they
               | kept the Irish crown :)
        
               | smcl wrote:
               | I feel like "Kingdom of England" would be off the table -
               | you probably wouldn't want to antagonise the Welsh
               | _immediately_ after they just watched NI and Scotland
               | split off :)
        
           | OJFord wrote:
           | That's kind of like 'The United States of <two cities in the
           | same state>'.
           | 
           | (Aside: TIL I don't think there's a US state for which I can
           | name two cities. Edit: ah, no - Austin & Houston TX.)
        
             | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
             | I'm not even American, and I can give you "Detroit" and
             | "Flint" both in Michigan, off the top of my head.
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | Well done? Obviously (?) I'm not saying nobody can, just
               | thought I realised for a minute that I couldn't, then
               | remembered the pair edited in. Fwiw I'm also not
               | American, and have never heard of Flint. Also couldn't
               | have told you Detroit was in Michigan anyway.
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | Sorry, I assumed you were American. In that case, I don't
               | think it's all that rare not being able to name two
               | cities in a state -- IME, a lot of capital cities are
               | well known, but not necessarily second cities, etc. I
               | think the capitals are often presented alongside their
               | state as pairs, so phrases like "Detroit, Michigan" just
               | stick in the mind. I also probably know Detroit, Michigan
               | from either Eminem or Motown. Flint, Michigan is
               | definitely more obscure -- I know that one from Michael
               | Moore. I do have a bit of a love for Geography, place
               | names, and US states in particular.
        
             | drfuchs wrote:
             | No doubt you're aware of San Francisco and Los Angeles,
             | both in the state of California?
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | Aware of them, yes. Able to tell you they're 'both in the
               | state of California' (perhaps before now if I remember),
               | no.
        
           | vonzepp wrote:
           | One option in the future is the that United Kingdom refers to
           | the monarchy not the government. If Scotland became
           | Independent, they could retain the monarchy. So you could
           | argue the kingdoms are united, but different governments
           | "serve" the monarch in different countries. This would
           | require England and Wales to come up with a new name for
           | their new country unless Wales also asked for independence.
        
             | cmrdporcupine wrote:
             | But that's already the case with many former colonies in
             | the Commonwealth, but they're not considered part of the
             | UK.
             | 
             | E.g. the monarchy "rules" over Canada, but we're not in the
             | UK.
        
               | vonzepp wrote:
               | True,but they were colonies that were under the British
               | Empire, rather than being made part of the UK, that
               | slowly gained dominion status granted self-governance
               | that eventually came full governance. The United Kingdom
               | was formed around 1707, between England and Scotland.
               | Ireland was joined in 1801. Ireland left the United
               | Kingdom in 1921 coming a dominion until becoming a
               | republic and cutting all ties to the monarchy.
               | 
               | My scenario doesn't abolish the United Kingdom, it
               | abolishes it as a country, not as an entity. Which would
               | be either largely symbolic, or something closer to the EU
               | in design
        
               | dane-pgp wrote:
               | > My scenario doesn't abolish the United Kingdom, it
               | abolishes it as a country
               | 
               | But surely a kingdom has to have a defined territory over
               | which the monarch is sovereign?
               | 
               | Of course there is precedent for having a government in
               | exile (which claims a territory it has no control over),
               | and the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (which doesn't
               | claim any territory at all), but I think if you want the
               | "UK" to refer to an institution, then it should stand for
               | "the United Kingship".
        
               | vonzepp wrote:
               | The monarch would be sovereign, but he/she/they would
               | execute their powers through different elected assemblies
               | in different parts of the Kingdom. The two assemblies
               | would have no influence over each other. Not sure the
               | monarch has really executed its powers over government
               | since ousting Lord Melbourne in the 1830s. So it really
               | is just about tradition and pageantry.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | It's The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
           | Ireland, so presumably if Ireland were to ever unify we'd
           | just be...the Kingdom of Great Britain?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | gampleman wrote:
             | .k?
             | 
             | or better .kgb ;)
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | I'd prefer (for two reasons) the Republic of Great
               | Britain -- now that would be a cool TLD!
        
           | ben_w wrote:
           | I'm not sure it does? IIRC, the Kingdom of Scotland merged
           | with the Kingdom of England as (theoretical) equal partners,
           | but Wales was just straight up conquered, and to the extent
           | it's got any connection with royalty (the Senedd Cymru is
           | democratic so I don't count it for this title), I think it's
           | just leading it's name to royal titles, and hasn't even still
           | officially been a principality since 1542?
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Wales
        
             | nirimda wrote:
             | I don't think this historical matter is going to be
             | relevant. The leftover bits will want to claim continuity
             | with the preceding state, and they will want to use the UK
             | name. But even if there's no consideration giving to
             | branding, thanks to the Welsh Senedd there's now a distinct
             | category of Welsh law, different from English law. So while
             | the union of England and Wales might have been brought
             | about by the extinguishment of the Welsh state, such as it
             | may be, the union is being continued through the
             | regeneration of some of the aspects of statehood.
        
           | steanne wrote:
           | the kingdom of southern great britain?
        
           | Milner08 wrote:
           | Does it? As a welsh person it hurts me to say that Wales was
           | never a kingdom in the United Kingdom as its was under
           | English rule for a long time before that came about. You
           | could I guess still use the name, but its weird.
           | 
           | I would love to see England get a devolved government, with
           | all governments getting equal power and the UK government
           | overseeing defense, etc. Sort of like a Federal government.
        
             | walthamstow wrote:
             | If we do federalism we would need to break England down
             | quite a bit.
             | 
             | Yours, a Londoner.
             | 
             | (We have less political power than Scotland, which is half
             | our population. Wales is even smaller)
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
        
       | sharkbird2 wrote:
       | Honestly, if it were up to me, my solution to this would be to
       | not solve it all. There's only a finite amount of time and energy
       | available in any organization and you have to make sure you spend
       | it on the problems that are worth solving. That have a
       | significant payoff of some sort. This doesn't seem to be one of
       | those.
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | Why even ask the question? It just opens the door to a no answer,
       | which doesn't make any sense since the domain is already not used
       | for anything.
        
       | ROARosen wrote:
       | > There is a risk that if handed back another country might try
       | to claim it for themselves
       | 
       | I really don't get this. What exactly is the _risk_? If they don
       | 't need it why do they need to make sure no one else gets it?
        
         | counttheforks wrote:
         | Old domains which are still referenced somewhere will change
         | ownership and can now be used for phishing or other nefarious
         | activities.
         | 
         | Also it looks official, I'm sure plenty of people would fall
         | for gov.gb if the site looked official enough.
        
         | advisedwang wrote:
         | Risk 1: Impersonation. ie, someone sets up hmrc.gov.gb and
         | tells people "pay your taxes here" and scams a bunch of people.
         | 
         | Risk 2: Economic loss. People selling .gb domains might take
         | away from .uk revenue.
         | 
         | Risk 3: Political fallout. Perhaps Chagos Islanders somehow get
         | control .gb and demand that the UK give up .io in exchange.
         | There's plenty of geopolitics that could get brought up.
         | 
         | Risk 4: opportunity cost. Perhaps later some major use for .gb
         | arises, but by then it's too late.
         | 
         | These are all pretty small risks, but this is the kind of thing
         | they may have in mind.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | If the domain has ever been used for anything, there are
         | serious security reasons to never reuse it.
         | 
         | For example, imagine your recovery email address for something
         | important is bob@something.gb. If 'gb' is ever reassigned to
         | someone else, they can now get access to anything ever
         | registered at a gb address.
         | 
         | This is the reason things like gmail accounts are never
         | recycled to another user. Early services like hotmail would
         | recycle accounts, but it has since become an 'obviously bad
         | idea'.
        
           | bastawhiz wrote:
           | The post does say that only one domain has ever been
           | registered and it's been defunct for decades. The risk is
           | probably zero.
        
       | est wrote:
       | should retire those bullshit for-profit TLDs like .google
        
         | whatatita wrote:
         | Nah, they don't hurt anyone.
        
           | aftbit wrote:
           | I disagree - they hurt all of the brands that were tricked or
           | pressured into buying them to prevent someone else from going
           | after them. If you look at e.g. .ford or .audi, they only
           | have a small handful of sites, all of which could have been
           | subdomains of .ford.com or .audi.com without any real loss.
        
           | Y_Y wrote:
           | They hurt me.
        
       | mightypirate wrote:
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | They should reserve .ew now in case both North Ireland and
       | Scotland exit.
        
       | JaDogg wrote:
       | Sounds useful for game boy / retro gaming enthusiasts
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | There is a significant chance that Northern Ireland will hold the
       | referendum on independence that they are entitled to (part of the
       | Good Friday agreement) at some point in the not too distant
       | future. And if they do, there is a significant chance they will
       | vote for independence or joining the south.
       | 
       | If that happens, what happens to the UK? Does it just become "The
       | United Kingdom of Great Britain", dropping "and Northern
       | Ireland". Or do we stop using "The United Kingdom" as it sort of
       | ceases to exist in its own right and revert to just "Great
       | Britain"?
       | 
       | This is a debate the UK government will want to avoid at all
       | costs. I'm amazed they are even considering talking about the
       | ".gb" domain, it bring up difficult topics.
       | 
       | It's sort of schrodinger's domain, don't check on it and it both
       | exists and doesn't exist at the same time!
        
         | claviola wrote:
         | You'd still have Scotland and Wales there.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | Scotland is planning another independence vote in a year or
           | so. After Brexit there's a good chance it'll pass this time.
        
             | spacedcowboy wrote:
             | "A good chance" doing a lot of work in that sentence.
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | Not really. It almost passed last time, and one of the
               | major reasons people voted against it was because it was
               | unclear what that would mean for their status in the EU.
               | That's no longer a concern thanks to brexit.
        
         | gmtx725 wrote:
         | it was just called "Kingdom of Great Britain" before 1801 when
         | it only included England Scotland and Wales
        
           | samwillis wrote:
           | .gb it is then...
        
             | Iwan-Zotow wrote:
             | should be .kgb
        
         | sb057 wrote:
         | The kingdoms that are united are England and Scotland. It was
         | originally:
         | 
         | the United Kingdom of Great Britain
         | 
         | then after Ireland was formally annexed:
         | 
         | the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
         | 
         | then after (southern) Ireland broke off:
         | 
         | the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
        
         | thesuitonym wrote:
         | It would become the United Kingdom of England and Scotland.
         | Though maybe they would acknowledge Wales for once.
        
           | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
           | "United Kingdom of Great Britain" is a lot catchier than
           | "United Kingdom of England, Scotland, and -- by the way --
           | Wales" :)
        
             | LightG wrote:
             | Just Britain, these days ... if that.
        
           | nanna wrote:
           | Northern Ireland's departure would probably correlate with
           | Scotland's, so more likely it'd be the United Kingdom of
           | England and Wales. Catchy.
        
             | kmonsen wrote:
             | At that point Wales is probably ready to call it a day as
             | well.
             | 
             | Part of the problem is as the empire is shrinking London
             | and England becomes more dominating. Each piece leaving
             | reinforces this so I think if Northern Ireland and Scotland
             | leaves Wales will do so too. And perhaps even smaller
             | pieces although that doesn't look likely today.
             | 
             | Another factor is that Scotland stayed last time as border
             | trade is the most important for Scotland. Not that UK is
             | crashing it's more likely they would leave.
        
           | adql wrote:
           | "United Kingdom of not so great Britain"
        
             | kmonsen wrote:
             | Great Britain is the island, if it's only Northern Ireland
             | leaving all of the Great Britain island would still be in.
        
             | mananaysiempre wrote:
             | Fun fact: there is, in fact, a Little Britain--Brittany
             | (Bretagne) in France, across the Channel from England.
        
         | c7b wrote:
         | There were similar debates prior to the Scottish independence
         | referendum. I think the takeaway back then was that Scotland
         | could leave the nation and actually stay part of the monarchy
         | (similar to how Australia, Canada,... still view the King as
         | their head of state), but the UK could keep its acronym and
         | just rename itself to be the United Kingdom of [whatever
         | remains of it].
        
           | N19PEDL2 wrote:
           | One day it might become the United Kingdom of England and
           | Wales.
        
             | andylynch wrote:
             | No- UK always meant GB and (parts of) Ireland; Wales has
             | been part of the Kingdom of England for far longer, nearly
             | 500 years. Though the chances of Welsh secession would
             | increase if NI and Scotland leave!
        
               | umanwizard wrote:
               | Nowadays however Wales is not normally thought of as part
               | of England, so I suspect that if everyone but the two of
               | them leave the Union they'll have to come up with a name
               | other than Kingdom of England.
        
         | Kaibeezy wrote:
         | Where it's heading is United Kingdom of the City of London and
         | England.
        
       | nerf3000 wrote:
       | Retiring a TLD is cruel to anyone using the domain, especially
       | with the prevalence of TLS. Just as retiring "land" that someone
       | paid for and is living on would be cruel.
       | 
       | The tendency for technologies to evaporate and be migrated to
       | replacement for $reasons is too frequent.
       | 
       | Domain TLDs should remain constant. If .gb no longer represents a
       | geopolitical entity then transition it to a new manager with a
       | contract that stipulates maintenance of established domains.
       | Don't set precedent for pulling TLDs out from under people.
        
         | thomasedwards wrote:
         | > It is staggeringly unlikely that you would ever have
         | encountered a .gb domain in the wild. The only domain which is
         | registered, though inactive, is hmg.gb - standing for His
         | Majesty's Government. The domain was originally created in the
         | mid 1980s, and abandoned at some point in the 1990s. There are
         | no active domains which use .gb and today, the government only
         | uses .gov.uk for its domains.
         | 
         | Third paragraph.
        
         | connordoner wrote:
         | This comment sums up HN perfectly.
        
         | whatatita wrote:
         | Did you read the article? It says right at the beginning that
         | only one domain was ever registered, and it's been inacite for
         | over thirty years.
         | 
         | Whilst I agree with the sentiment that TLDs shouldn't be pulled
         | out from under people, replies without reading the article are
         | just noise.
        
       | tokamak wrote:
       | But when United Kingdom will split, what will Britain use?
        
         | flavius29663 wrote:
         | lb - Little Britan (cough cough, computer says no!)
        
         | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
         | .sb (Small Britain) ?
        
           | RugnirViking wrote:
           | that's brittany (a region of france). "Great" britain is to
           | distinguish it from there.
        
             | medstrom wrote:
             | It's more the other way around. The Romans called the isles
             | Britannia Major and Britannia Minor (now Great Britain and
             | Ireland). Some time after Rome fell, Britons started to
             | settle in another region they called Armorica, so it
             | changed name to Brittany. "Small Britain" could be either
             | Ireland or Brittany at this point.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittany#Etymology
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_(place_name)
        
         | s_dev wrote:
         | .ie, .scot, .cymru, .wales, .irish
        
           | Iwan-Zotow wrote:
           | .ei - eastern Ireland
        
           | gerikson wrote:
           | .ie? Already used by Ireland.
        
             | s_dev wrote:
             | Correct and the breakup of the UK will likely lead to a
             | United Ireland. The real question is what will England use
             | for a TLD? They've never considered their place in the
             | world that isn't in reference to the UK or GB because to
             | them the two are interchangeable.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | > Correct and the breakup of the UK will likely lead to a
               | United Ireland
               | 
               | Unless things go really pear-shaped in the UK, this is
               | unlikely within the next twenty years.
        
               | selfhoster11 wrote:
               | Things have been going very pear-shaped in the UK for at
               | least 6 years now.
        
               | cratermoon wrote:
               | > Unless things go really pear-shaped in the UK
               | 
               | That doesn't seem terribly unlikely in within the next
               | twenty years.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | Things would need to be _really, really bad_ for the
               | Unionist population of NI before they 'd vote to join
               | Ireland. I'm honestly not sure that anything bar the
               | total collapse of the other island would do it, tbh ;)
        
               | Aromasin wrote:
               | Things weren't particularly bad, and the UK managed to
               | vote itself out of the EU and into recession. All you
               | need is a single vote and a particularly apathetic
               | populace to change the political landscape forever.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | I strongly encourage you to visit Northern Ireland and
               | talk to people (even just see the peace walls) as this is
               | far more like the 18th century than it is like the 21st
               | (in the sense that religion/ethnicity/history is the
               | predominant driving force behind voting patterns).
        
               | cal85 wrote:
               | Counterpoint: England's national teams in the country's
               | most popular spectator sports (football, cricket, rugby)
               | are all "England".
        
               | Veen wrote:
               | > Correct and the breakup of the UK will likely lead to a
               | United Ireland.
               | 
               | Will it? I know some Northern Irish who would not on
               | board with that.
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | _Some_ , of course -- this is why it hasn't already
               | happened. However, in the last NI census:
               | 
               | 32% identified as British only, 29% identified as Irish
               | only and 20% as Northern Irish only.
               | 
               | In 2011, the figures were 40% British only, 25% Irish
               | only and 21% Northern Irish only.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | I think you're reading a "without bloodshed" into the
               | sentence that's definitely not in there.
        
               | gerikson wrote:
               | So... England will not be part of the FUK (former UK)?
        
             | Iwan-Zotow wrote:
             | .ei - eastern Ireland
        
       | Tepix wrote:
       | Isn't the .IO domain a lot more controversial with the UK
       | expelling the population of the islands?
       | https://www.thewebmaster.com/archived/io-tld-top-level-domai...
        
         | toyg wrote:
         | FYI that page lacks recent developments:
         | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/03/uk-agrees-to-n...
         | 
         | It looks like a politically isolated and weakened UK government
         | has had to relent, and will finally hand over the territory to
         | Mauritius. It's possibly the only positive outcome of the
         | Brexit saga.
        
           | dane-pgp wrote:
           | Positive for Mauritius, maybe. It's not clear that the
           | Mauritian government would be any more likely to remove the
           | US base there, and will instead be happy to just receive the
           | rent that the US is currently paying the UK for it.
           | 
           | One might also note that the Chagossians who lived in the
           | British Indian Ocean Territory never actually owned any land
           | there, nor were they self-sufficient in terms of food.[0]
           | Also, the Chagossians were given[1] severance pay for their
           | work there, and compensation for starting a new life in the
           | Seychelles or Mauritius, back in the 1970s. Then, in the
           | 1980s, the UK government paid out millions more in
           | reparations[2], and this year the government offered them
           | British citizenship too.[3]
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians#Eviction
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_expulsion_of_the_Cha
           | gos...
           | 
           | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_expulsion_of_the_Cha
           | gos...
           | 
           | [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/chagos-
           | islands...
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | It's still a step in the right direction, from both moral
             | and practical perspectives, for what is a clear historical
             | wrong. Among other things, it will lay responsibility for
             | the status quo where it really resides, i.e. the US.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | Controversy hardly ever seems to influence the British
         | government.
         | 
         | Even the linked document is more of "Huh, what's this in the
         | draw? Anyone using it?"
        
       | Iwan-Zotow wrote:
       | In a need of .kgb top level domain
        
       | ClassyJacket wrote:
       | A very rare break of Betteridge's Law of Headlines:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
        
       | notpushkin wrote:
       | I'm not sure why doesn't the UK just start selling the .gb
       | domains. Seems like a nice suffix for domain hacks (64.gb
       | anybody?) and in general.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I look forward to the official renaming to the "United Kingdom
         | of Giga Byte and Northern Ireland" and then we can all fight
         | over if it should have been Gibi Byte.
        
           | nimish wrote:
           | Someone in Gibraltar should have created .gib IMO
        
         | przemub wrote:
         | There's a huge push in the UK not to use GB abbreviation unless
         | necessary, because it excludes Northern Ireland.
         | 
         | Similarly, since last year international car plates bear UK
         | sign, not GB as it had been for a hundred years before.
        
           | nlnn wrote:
           | Indeed - there are a couple of good diagrams that attempt to
           | illustrate what each term encompasses, e.g.: https://upload.w
           | ikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/British_...
        
             | midasuni wrote:
             | Why are England and Wales in once circular but Scotland
             | isn't?
        
               | dane-pgp wrote:
               | Wales is (or was[0]) a principality, historically ruled
               | over by the monarch of England and thus a constituent
               | part of the Kingdom of England[1].
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_in_Wales_Acts_1535
               | _and_15...
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_England
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | selectodude wrote:
               | England and Wales share a legal system that is distinct
               | from the one in Scotland and NI, which is the only thing
               | I could think would explain that. Wales didn't have its
               | own parliament until 1998 and was entirely governed by
               | London.
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | Wasn't Wales annexed by force into England while Scotland
               | joined with England as an act of desperation following an
               | amazingly incompetent attempt at setting up a colony?
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | Well there were two joinings. In the first one the
               | Scottish King (James VI) took over the English throne
               | after Elizabeth I died.
               | 
               | King James then began to try to create a unified state,
               | merging first the churches. Of course there was then that
               | little Cromwell bustup, but after that James VII of
               | Scotland was on the throne and causing religious grief,
               | his daughter and her Dutch husband then took over.
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | Wasn't that more like _trying_ to merge the churches - or
               | did I imagine the unique misery of Church of Scotland
               | services at school? :-)
        
             | dazzawazza wrote:
             | The inclusion of Ireland in the British Isles is now
             | contentious. We're not blowing each other up over it but it
             | is, at least unofficially, not the position of either side
             | any more.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute
        
               | chungy wrote:
               | I never thought a geographical term would be that
               | contentious. To me, it sounds similar to objecting to the
               | continent(s) known as "the Americas" simply because the
               | USA is often known world-wide as just "America".
        
               | umanwizard wrote:
               | Plenty of people in other parts of the Americas do object
               | to "America" being used as shorthand for the USA.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | ClumsyPilot wrote:
             | I find it annoying that any time you prepare for the test
             | or read official textbook, such diagrams are never
             | provided. Its alsways dome super spesific textual
             | information
        
           | 323 wrote:
           | Currency should be changed too then from GBP to UKP.
        
             | donalhunt wrote:
             | Sterling (aka the GBP) is used outside the UK.
             | 
             | The United Kingdom also allows some regions to issue bank
             | notes that are considered currency but not legal tender
             | (i.e. then can be refused for payment of a debt in favour
             | of currency issued by the Bank of England).
             | 
             | See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknotes_of_the_pound_
             | sterl...
        
           | pestatije wrote:
           | What should be the correct demonym? ...Ukeyish?
        
             | Veen wrote:
             | Confusingly, it's British.
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | That would upset an awful lot of people living in
               | Northern Ireland, though. I'd be up for adopting "United
               | Kingdomer".
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | The unionists there already describe themselves as
               | British. The republicans don't but they wouldn't want to
               | be UKish either, obviously.
        
           | markdown wrote:
           | What's with GB at the Olympics though?
        
             | IanCal wrote:
             | That's contentious. Technically the full name is the "Great
             | Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team". Broadly the
             | answer is "branding" and there isn't a strong enough push
             | to change it.
        
             | walthamstow wrote:
             | ~Each island competes as one.~
             | 
             | Edit - oops incorrect.
        
               | argentier wrote:
               | For the Olympics you are incorrect but it varies.
               | 
               | Rugby - one team for the island
               | 
               | Soccer - one federation for each polity on the island,
               | but Derry City plays in the League of Ireland (Republic
               | of Ireland). Two international teams.
               | 
               | Cricket - one team for the island
               | 
               | Etc etc. There is some tiresome hand-wringing every time
               | an athlete has decide on their allegiance.
               | 
               | Basically, Ireland is a political Mandelbrot set.
        
               | Leherenn wrote:
               | They don't at the Olympics.
        
               | another-dave wrote:
               | > Each island competes as one.
               | 
               | I don't think that's technically correct. Anyone in NI
               | has Irish citizenship (who wants it), so any NI athlete
               | can represent Ireland.
               | 
               | "Team GB" is the official team of the whole of the UK
               | though, including Northern Ireland.
        
               | rocketbop wrote:
               | You are correct, the official name of the team is `Great
               | Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team`
        
             | benwad wrote:
             | Weirdly, NI Olympic athletes can choose to compete for
             | either Ireland or the UK:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_GB#Calls_for_renaming
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | And there are many other overlaps like this - such as RoI
               | people can join the British Army.
        
               | another-dave wrote:
               | I think Northern Ireland is unique in that regard, where
               | every person holds (or at least, is entitled to) dual
               | citizenship from birth.
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | I guess HKers are kind of simultaneously Chinese and not
               | Chinese until they get old enough to form an opinion.
               | 
               | And I'm not sure if they actually have 'dual citizenship
               | from birth', but South Korea has an open door policy to
               | North Korean.. immigrants/refugees.
        
               | justahuman74 wrote:
               | I think one of the parents of the child has to be a UK or
               | Ireland citizen. For example, German parents resident in
               | and having a child in Northern Ireland, the child is only
               | a UK citizen (and perhaps German? I don't know that part
               | of it)
        
               | noodlesUK wrote:
               | UK nationality law is exceptionally complex (probably the
               | most complex in the world). Irish nationality law is less
               | complex but inherited a lot of warts from the UK
               | 
               | In general if you're born in NI and your parents are
               | settled (that is they have permanent residency or are EU
               | citizens with derived status) or are UK/IE citizens you
               | are both British and Irish.
        
               | wiredfool wrote:
               | If one of your parents is NI born, it entitles you to
               | have both UK (by descent) and Irish (by Good Friday)
               | citizenship. Couple this with being born in the US, and
               | my kids have 3 citizenships from birth.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | Leherenn wrote:
             | The reasoning is that UK is still not actually correct
             | (though more correct) because the Olympic committee also
             | oversees places like the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands
             | and so on which are not technically part of the UK. Then it
             | seems they keep it because of tradition and because the
             | country code is GBR.
        
           | dontlaugh wrote:
           | That is indeed the reasoning.
           | 
           | Of course, those of us that don't think Northern Ireland
           | should continue to be colonised would like GB used
           | everywhere.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | rocketbop wrote:
             | The Ulster Plantations were 400 years ago, calling it a
             | colony now is beyond a stretch and sounds childish.
        
               | dontlaugh wrote:
               | British police and military were killing Irish people in
               | the north around 30 years ago. The north is still under
               | British occupation. When that ends and the island is re-
               | unified, we can start saying that colonisation is being
               | addressed.
        
               | bearmode wrote:
               | >When that ends and the island is re-unified
               | 
               | Why are you trying to force 2 million people to live in a
               | country that most of them explicitly don't want to?
        
               | robin_reala wrote:
               | Reunification will happen when the majority of them _do_
               | want to, and that's probably not that far away given the
               | chart at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Nor
               | thern_Irelan...
        
               | bearmode wrote:
               | And that's absolutely fine, I'll cheer them on in the
               | reunification process when that time comes. But at the
               | moment they don't, and it's silly to suggest that it's
               | still a colony until then.
        
               | morelisp wrote:
               | Two years, obviously.
               | 
               | https://memory-
               | alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irish_Unification_of_20...
        
               | dontlaugh wrote:
               | I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. I'd like
               | the British state to stop forcing NI to be part of the
               | UK. What the people of NI then choose to do is up to
               | them.
        
               | umanwizard wrote:
               | The Good Friday Agreement, which the UK is party to,
               | explicitly gives Northern Ireland the right to leave the
               | UK if the majority of people there want to.
        
               | bearmode wrote:
               | > I'd like the British state to stop forcing NI to be
               | part of the UK.
               | 
               | This isn't happening.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | > British police and military were killing Irish people
               | in the north around 30 years ago.
               | 
               | Technically most of the residents of NI were British
               | citizens at the time this was happening.
               | 
               | Additionally, it wasn't just the British engaging in
               | violence, there were at least three sides
               | (nationalist/loyalist/government).
               | 
               | > The north is still under British occupation
               | 
               | I'm pretty sure that I could find a _lot_ of people
               | (almost certainly a majority) of NI residents who 'd
               | disagree with this statement.
               | 
               | > When that ends and the island is re-unified,
               | 
               | I hope (as someone from the Republic) that this happens,
               | but we'll need a bunch of planning and time to make sure
               | this doesn't turn out like Brexit (a close result leading
               | to lots of problems over the following few years).
        
               | ClumsyPilot wrote:
               | >> killing Irish people in the north around 30 years ago.
               | 
               | > residents of NI were British citizens at the time
               | 
               | That's how it works for every independence movement - a
               | smaller entity asserts it's right to exist outside the
               | boundary of a larger one. Fighting smaller entity is
               | self-harm by the larger entity.
               | 
               | Look at the Chechen war in Russia, it was the same.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | Ah no, the Irish situation is very very different.
               | 
               | For a start, the Ulster Protestants were the majority in
               | NI until this year (100 years after partition).
               | 
               | And while I (as an Irish person) would love to see a
               | united Ireland, I completely condemn the violence that
               | was used to attempt it.
               | 
               | Again, I understand _why_ it happened, but 3.5k deaths
               | over 30 years was not an acceptable price to get to the
               | negotiation table (essentially repeating a deal that was
               | shot down by the Unionists in 1972).
        
               | rocketbop wrote:
               | > When that ends and the island is re-unified, we can
               | start saying that colonisation is being addressed.
               | 
               | I objected to your use of the word 'colony' as it does
               | not describe Northern Ireland. The social injustices you
               | are referencing, and there have been many, do not make
               | that word any more appropriate.
               | 
               | There is already a framework affirmed by the voters of
               | both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland that
               | the a plebiscite on unification can be held. There is no
               | occupation, and your language does nothing constructive.
               | 
               | It is also incorrect to say 're-unified' as there never
               | was an all island Irish state.
        
             | bearmode wrote:
             | NI is no more a colony than the US or Australia are today.
             | 
             | Personally I'm all about self-determination. If the people
             | of NI want to return the land to Eire, then nobody should
             | stand in their way. But that doesn't seem to be the case
             | right now, even though support for reunification has been
             | increasing in recent years.
        
               | rich_sasha wrote:
               | NI was explicitly created as a hack to an all-Ireland
               | independence referendum at the start of 20th century. It
               | was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state and the
               | UK created this never-seen-before entity as a response.
               | 
               | I'm not even Irish and certainly have no skin in this
               | game but what the UK did to Ireland over the centuries is
               | disgraceful, and it clearly is struggling to come to
               | terms with it.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | As a recent tourist, NI seemed far less developed than
               | the Republic of Ireland to me, as if everyone there had
               | moved to England for jobs and now that region only
               | survives thanks to life support from London.
               | 
               | Much of the infrastructure there reminded me more of
               | post-communist Eastern European countries than western
               | Europe, but then so do many parts of England (no
               | offense).
               | 
               | I wonder if NI wouldn't be better off part of the
               | Republic and the EU, now with Brexit and everything?
        
               | mathieuh wrote:
               | As someone who grew up and lives in NI, I'm suspicious
               | that the awful state of the place is because the UK knows
               | NI will rejoin Ireland in the nearish future, so why
               | would they invest in infrastructure here?
               | 
               | It used to be the case that the roads would get
               | noticeably worse as you crossed the border into the
               | republic, now the situation is reversed.
        
               | bearmode wrote:
               | >I'm suspicious that the awful state of the place is
               | because the UK knows NI will rejoin Ireland in the
               | nearish future, so why would they invest in
               | infrastructure here?
               | 
               | NI receives a disproportionately large amount of money
               | from the UK gov compared to other UK nations.
        
               | mathieuh wrote:
               | And that money still isn't enough, because NI is still
               | suffering the effects of the troubles and a governance
               | situation which is not fit for purpose. Everything here
               | is in a state of disrepair, the NHS isn't functioning,
               | the far-right Christian-fundamentalist party which is the
               | second biggest party refuses to do anything for reasons
               | that exist only in their own heads, etc. etc.
               | 
               | The place needs to be actively developed, not repeatedly
               | patched up and sent on its way to hobble along.
        
               | bearmode wrote:
               | I agree with you, I'm just pointing out that the lack of
               | investment in infrastructure isn't a NI-specific issue;
               | rather it's part of central gov policy for the whole of
               | the UK. And has been for decades. Every part of the UK is
               | crumbling through lack of investment.
               | 
               | NI is a little better-off than much of England in that
               | regard, outside of Tory towns and villages. My home town
               | never recovered after Thatcher.
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | Probably not, in the sense that it's a backwater anyway -
               | but at least it's currently a backwater enjoying
               | significant subsidies from the UK government, money they
               | likely wouldn't get from Dublin.
               | 
               | Unification will happen when the advantage of receiving
               | such money will be clearly be offset by the disadvantage
               | of having a broken political system (NI regional
               | government is boycotted by unionists, while the national
               | government is boycotted by republicans). As money reduces
               | further and further while annoyances get bigger and
               | bigger (because of an entrenched "England-first"
               | government pursuing policies like Brexit), that threshold
               | gets closer and closer.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | _> enjoying significant subsidies from the UK government_
               | 
               | Those subsidies don't seem to be enough to save it when
               | the infrastructure is crumbling and everyone is moving
               | abroad for jobs. Also, many countries don't need
               | subsidies, they need opportunities. Subsidies are like
               | paying a crackehead to buy more drugs instead of getting
               | him a home, warm meal, a shower and schooling for job
               | applications.
               | 
               |  _> money they likely wouldn't get from Dublin_
               | 
               | They would get it from the EU then, and probably a lot
               | more, as the UK gov is now struggling financially to stay
               | solvent. The EU can very generous if you can play the
               | game right. Just look at Poland 20 years ago and Poland
               | today, the difference EU funds and the EU open market
               | made, is night and day. It has also benefiter the
               | Republic of Ireland. I doubt they would have been in the
               | same state today without EU membership. For all its
               | faults, the EU has been a force for good many times.
               | Another English speaking region joining the EU could be a
               | mutual benefit.
        
               | thrwyoilarticle wrote:
               | The same 'know what's best for em' attitude that was used
               | by the US nationals funding IRA terrorism.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | > all-Ireland independence referendum at the start of
               | 20th century
               | 
               | So which one was that then? Was this before the
               | Representation of the people act or were women and
               | working class men still banned?
               | 
               | > It was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state and
               | the UK created this never-seen-before entity as a
               | response.
               | 
               | In the 1918 election in Ulster 66% voted for unionist
               | parties.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | > NI was explicitly created as a hack to an all-Ireland
               | independence referendum at the start of 20th century. It
               | was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state and the
               | UK created this never-seen-before entity as a response.
               | 
               | The UK government didn't have a lot of choice, the Ulster
               | Protestants would almost certainly have fought a civil
               | war if the full island was granted domininion status.
               | 
               | The boundary commission was problematic, but the real
               | issue post partition was the removal of PR by the NI
               | government. I think that if the ballot box hadn't
               | essentially been stacked against Catholics we might not
               | have seen the Troubles.
        
               | ClumsyPilot wrote:
               | > The boundary commission was problematic
               | 
               | India, Pakistan, I am seeing a pattern.
               | 
               | Even if you get independace from england, you won't leave
               | in one piece.
        
               | dontlaugh wrote:
               | The US and Australia don't have the British military as
               | the ultimate enforcer of state power. They each have
               | their own local armies, accepted as legitimate by
               | Britain. Northern Ireland's army was never accepted as
               | legitimate by the British state, they were even fought
               | directly for decades.
        
               | bearmode wrote:
               | The only reason for that is NI never voted/fought for
               | secession from the UK - just relatively small groups
               | without popular support in NI, but with the support of
               | Ireland.
        
               | DocTomoe wrote:
               | Actually, they did, back when Ireland as a whole voted
               | for independence. That that particular part of the
               | country may have chosen to remain does not, under
               | democratic rules, allow for it to be separated from the
               | main country, much like Scotland and Wales could not have
               | argue to remain in the EU because their respective
               | populations were overwhelmingly in favour of remain.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | > Actually, they did, back when Ireland as a whole voted
               | for independence.
               | 
               | Can you point to a vote by the Irish people in favour of
               | independence?
               | 
               | I'm pretty sure you can't given that no such vote has
               | ever taken place.
        
               | argentier wrote:
               | There's this:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_Irish_general_election
               | 
               | The IRA derived their 'legitimacy' from it.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | The one where the votes for unionists in Ulster
               | outweighed nationalists 2:1?
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | That's an election, not a referendum.
               | 
               | And to be quite frank, you are probably thinking of the
               | Provisional IRA when you put legitimacy in quotes, where
               | as this was the original IRA, who basically have nothing
               | in common with the Provos (as they were called when I
               | were a lad) except the name.
        
               | vonzepp wrote:
               | When Ireland voted for independence, it was officially
               | part of the UK. The UK as a whole would have voted
               | against independence for Ireland. Does that mean under
               | democratic rules Ireland was not allowed for it to be
               | separated from the main country? We'd be better off
               | asking why unionist don't want to join rather than
               | telling them they have no choice.
        
               | argentier wrote:
               | I don't think anyone is telling them that: in fact their
               | concerns are absurdly well catered for, though you
               | wouldn't know it listening to the constant complaints.
               | 
               | We can split hairs about what is and is not democratic
               | until the end of time, but the debate takes place in a
               | historical vacuum: the creation of Northern Ireland was a
               | response to a very specific set of circumstances, and I
               | don't think yak-shaving about democratic niceties casts
               | any light.
               | 
               | It is moot anyway, because there is no prospect of
               | changing Northern Ireland's status without democratic
               | sanction. Which vote of course takes place at the
               | pleasure of His Majesty's Secretary of State for Northern
               | Ireland.
        
               | vonzepp wrote:
               | It is not quite at the pleasure of His Majesty's
               | Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. It is defined in
               | law that if there are grounds to believe it would pass
               | they would be required to hold a border poll. This could
               | be decided in court, as in if say opinion polling was at
               | 70% and nationalist parts were winning 70% of the votes,
               | and the Secretary of State refused to hold the poll. They
               | could be brought to court and a judge could rule the
               | secretary has no grounds to refuse.
        
               | argentier wrote:
               | The levels of support for the small groups that fought
               | primarily against small groups on the other side were
               | never really gauged. However the political successors to
               | the only one of those groups that really counted is
               | currently the largest party in Northern Ireland.
               | 
               | The Brits left split polities in quite a few places as
               | they decolonized. Almost as if it was policy.
        
               | twixfel wrote:
               | Northern Ireland is not a colony according to the common
               | and widely understood meaning of the word colony (or in
               | the opinion of the UN). If you make up your own
               | definition based on "local armies" (whatever relevance or
               | meaning that has, not sure)... then yes you can
               | personally call anything anything you like... but it has
               | no meaning to the rest of us and doesn't really make any
               | sense.
        
             | _dain_ wrote:
        
           | cstross wrote:
           | It's worth noting that "Great Britain" is very specifically
           | the name of a geographical land mass -- an island off the
           | coast of Europe that currently includes England, Wales, and
           | Scotland.
           | 
           | In political terms it _doesn 't_ include NI ... or the Isle
           | of Man, the Isle of Wight, and the Channel Islands.
           | 
           | (Also, in event of Scottish independence, using "GB" for the
           | nationality would cause confusion because post-independence
           | there'd be two separate nations on the GB land mass. See also
           | [minor] confusion over "Ireland".)
        
             | chrisseaton wrote:
             | > In political terms it doesn't include NI ...
             | 
             | It often does - for example someone from NI can join the GB
             | Olympics team.
        
               | vonzepp wrote:
               | Indeed, but someone from NI can also join the Irish
               | Olympic team. I guess the use of GB rather than UK is a
               | way of addressing that sensitive question by not
               | including NI as default in one team.
        
               | wiredfool wrote:
               | Also Football and Rugby. In general the sporting
               | associations have a conditionally Unified Ireland policy,
               | where it's really flexible which countries an athlete can
               | compete for.
        
             | mprev wrote:
             | Sorry to be picky, but the Isle of Man and Channels Islands
             | aren't part of the UK either.
             | 
             | Politically, IoW is part of England and so GB, albeit
             | geographically a separate island.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | Jesus christ, just when I thought I understood what all
               | the convoluted UK/GB/etc names meant, now I discover I
               | need to add "Crown Dependencies" to the list? That turn
               | out to be _neither_ part of the UK _nor_ British Overseas
               | Territories?
               | 
               | I swear they're just messing with us. Who comes up with
               | these things...
        
               | whatatita wrote:
               | The always relevant CGP Grey:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
               | 
               | Skip to 5:00 for a beautiful diagram outlining the mess.
        
               | donalhunt wrote:
               | Probably explains the lack of a constitution too. No one
               | dares to try and document it!
        
               | russellbeattie wrote:
               | I assumed this link would have been one of the top
               | comments! All the other links in this thread combined
               | don't shed light on the topic nearly as well as CGP
               | Grey's video.
        
           | AlecSchueler wrote:
           | As someone from Northern Ireland who is often frustrated by
           | British companies who don't ship to or provide services to
           | this side of the sea, I think having this clearly indicated
           | by a .gb TLD would be great.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | This is like "free shipping to the US" and then you learn
             | that they mean contiguous US and Alaska and Hawaii are not
             | included.
        
               | adra wrote:
               | Alaska is continental but not continuous. Just imagine
               | living in Porto Rico or any of the other random us
               | protectorates that have no legal voting authority.
        
               | rpastuszak wrote:
               | *contiguous not continuous (not the same thing, could
               | just mean "sharing a common border")
               | 
               | *Puerto Rico not Porto Rico
        
               | blackshaw wrote:
               | British companies often charge extra to ship to the
               | "Highlands and Islands", meaning northern Scotland (one
               | of the most sparsely populated areas in Europe.)
        
               | GauntletWizard wrote:
               | I am surprised by this; Does the Royal Mail charge more?
               | Like, significantly so? USPS charges more for shipping
               | cross-country, certainly, but I consider their rates[1]
               | pretty fair for the distance involved.
               | 
               | [1] https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c052 -
               | For clarity, Zone 7 is cross-country for the most part,
               | Zone 8 is mostly "Non-contiguous" (Alaska and Hawaii),
               | and zone 9 is "Foreign but US Sovereignty" (Military
               | bases, Embassies, Minor Outlying Islands). The maximum
               | zone by distance in the UK would be Zone 4 - (Almost) All
               | points within the British Isles are < 600 miles from each
               | other.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | UPS definitely charges different rates for different
               | areas (and even the USPS does somewhat once you get to
               | parcels) but most companies hide this from the buyer to
               | make things simple (even so far as dropping to "free
               | shipping").
               | 
               | Smaller companies often don't want to take a hit on the
               | non-contiguous - but depending on what you're buying the
               | places that DO charge shipping may actually be the
               | cheapest overall.
               | 
               | The fun really comes when you have places in the USA that
               | the post office doesn't even deliver to (in very VERY
               | rural areas, every address is actually a PO Box; you have
               | to drive into town to get the mail and that can be many,
               | many miles). Often UPS and FedEx will think they can
               | deliver, and then determine they can't. Fun times.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | This is essentially down to the mainland forgetting that
           | Northern Ireland existed until Brexit forced the NI border
           | issue to prominence, isn't it?
           | 
           | The UK is to a great extent a set of special cases that have
           | accreted from the feudal era. No wonder we invented
           | Mornington Crescent.
           | 
           | All of the compatibility issues and awkwardnesses that derive
           | from this get glossed over as much as possible, but are
           | starting to force their way to the surface as the power and
           | competence vaccuum in the center loses its grip.
        
         | mritzmann wrote:
         | On the other hand, it would be confusing to have two top level
         | domains for one country.
        
           | robin_reala wrote:
           | UK's not one country though. E.g. there's
           | https://www.gov.uk/, but also https://www.gov.scot/ and
           | https://gov.wales/.
        
             | zeristor wrote:
             | It is always a hot topic, but England's dominance can be
             | noted in its absence.
             | 
             | Wouldn't it be fair to say that the UK is synonymous with
             | England in this case?
             | 
             | Exhibit A, that I have at hand. Rainfall gauges for only
             | England using the UK domain:
             | 
             | https://check-for-flooding.service.gov.uk/rainfall-
             | station/2...
        
               | actionfromafar wrote:
               | If you want to get really weird, look into City of London
               | and some of the Channel Islands. UK very much retains
               | living heritage of the medieval.
        
               | jinder wrote:
               | I think the independent status of the City of London is
               | grossly exaggerated and not really comparable with the
               | Channel Islands.
        
               | pmyteh wrote:
               | It's not particularly independent, but it _is_ the last
               | of the unreformed medieval municipal corporations. In
               | earlier times every borough /city corporation was
               | chartered ad hoc and often had completely undemocratic
               | rules for membership (e.g. selection by the outgoing
               | members, maintaining a self-selected oligarchy, or
               | election by an extremely restricted franchise). There was
               | a process from the Municipal Corporations Act 1835[0]
               | onwards where the old order was reformed into a more
               | modern (more uniform and more democratic)
               | county/district/borough/city councils system. We
               | eventually ended up with the local authorities we have
               | today.
               | 
               | Except for the City of London. Here, a combination of the
               | Victorian power of the Corporation, coupled with the tiny
               | resident population of the City (and a consequent desire
               | by central governments to leave elections in the
               | effective hands of the companies who _employ_ people in
               | the City rather than those who live there) have left a
               | body allowed to take its own direction. Along with the
               | Council of the Isles of Scilly (weird because Scilly is
               | far too small to justify its own principal authority, but
               | too far from Cornwall to be conveniently governed by it)
               | it is one of only two really _sui generis_ principal
               | local authorities in England.
               | 
               | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_Corporations
               | _Act_183...
        
               | dane-pgp wrote:
               | That's a great explanation, but it's also worth adding
               | that the City of London was the only city mentioned[0] in
               | Magna Carta, which stated:
               | 
               | "the City of London shall have all its ancient liberties
               | by land as well as by water"
               | 
               | These liberties being "ancient" even in 1215 AD means
               | they date back to "time immemorial"[1] (that is, before
               | 1189 AD) and thus their exact nature is not known. As
               | such, replacing the legal basis for the City would likely
               | have contravened or at least complicated the
               | interpretation of that foundational document.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/history-
               | and-her...
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_immemorial#English
               | _and_Am...
        
               | pmyteh wrote:
               | Yes - the traditional liberties of the City are long-
               | standing and fought for. I'm not sure that being
               | mentioned by name in Magna Carta was reason enough to
               | leave it unreformed. The Cinque Ports have been reduced
               | to essentially ceremonial status despite their mention
               | (and the large majority of Magna Carta has simply been
               | repealed over the years[0] - it's not a constitutional
               | document in the sense that it's ever been entrenched).
               | 
               | [0]: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9
        
               | dane-pgp wrote:
               | > UK very much retains living heritage of the medieval.
               | 
               | To give an example, it was only in 2008 when the island
               | of Sark abolished the feudal system (the last place in
               | the western world to do so).
               | 
               | https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/dec/10/channel-
               | islands
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | Scotland only removed the last bits of feudalism in 2000
               | 
               | https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2000/5/notes/division/
               | 1/2...
               | 
               | "Vassals will become owners and superiors will
               | disappear."
        
               | yuriko wrote:
               | It used to be the case that there is only a single UK
               | government. The local governments (Scotland, Wales, NI)
               | are formed no more than ~20 years ago, and are in charge
               | of local affairs such as healthcare and education. There
               | is never an England local government, but effectively the
               | UK government only have to deal with England with regards
               | to local affairs.
               | 
               | (A bit over simplified, of course)
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | The Scottish Parliament is sometimes described as having
               | been re-established in '99
               | 
               | https://www.parliament.scot/about/history-of-the-
               | scottish-pa...
        
               | Milner08 wrote:
               | No, that's not true or fair. The gov.uk contains stuff
               | for all countries not just England. Although it may
               | contain stuff for England that does not have a place
               | elsewhere.
               | 
               | The fact England doesn't have a devolved government is
               | insanity to me, but people were really pissed at Blair
               | when it came time to vote on it... so here we are.
        
             | blibble wrote:
             | those aren't classed by icann as cctlds
             | 
             | (in the same way .vegas and .miami aren't)
        
             | umanwizard wrote:
             | > UK's not one country though.
             | 
             | England, Scotland, Wales, and NI are called "countries" for
             | historical and traditional reasons. They are not
             | "countries" by any internationally applicable definition
             | (if they were, then the states of the US, the provinces of
             | Canada, etc. would all count as "countries" too by any such
             | definition I can imagine).
        
             | RobotToaster wrote:
             | The UK is one country, it just happens to be made up of
             | multiple countries.
             | 
             | Just as the United States is a (sovereign) state, that is
             | made up of multiple states.
        
               | soneil wrote:
               | The way I prefer to think of it, is the UK is a state
               | comprising of several countries, and the US is a country
               | comprising of several states.
               | 
               | I can't promise it's any more accurate, but it amuses me.
        
               | umanwizard wrote:
               | What does that mean?
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | There's a few that already have that, China has .cn and
           | .Zhong Guo  for instance.
        
           | wmd_ wrote:
           | Does this mean it is time to retire the .su TLD as well?
        
           | weberer wrote:
           | Spain has .cat for Catalonia.
        
             | smcl wrote:
             | I think the organization that administers .cat would take
             | issue with the idea that it is owned by "Spain" :)
        
             | JorgeGT wrote:
             | Note that .cat is for the Catalan language, which is spoken
             | in other places besides Catalonia, inside and outside of
             | Spain. There is also .gal and .eus for the Galician and
             | Basque (Euskara) languages as well.
        
           | dukeofharen wrote:
           | Fun fact, besides .ru (Russia), .su (Soviet Union) is also
           | still active.
        
           | cesarb wrote:
           | It's not the only country with that, for instance the USA has
           | both .us and .gov for its government domains.
        
         | Already__Taken wrote:
         | Just for vanities sake it'd be good but the last thing the
         | world wants is news.gb
        
           | Iwan-Zotow wrote:
           | Domain should be named .kgb anyway
           | 
           | Thus news.kgb
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-21 23:02 UTC)