[HN Gopher] ChessBase and Stockfish end their legal dispute
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       ChessBase and Stockfish end their legal dispute
        
       Author : tantrum
       Score  : 159 points
       Date   : 2022-11-19 03:34 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (stockfishchess.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (stockfishchess.org)
        
       | ghostway wrote:
       | go stockfish!
        
       | danielvf wrote:
       | Summary of the legal settlement:
       | 
       | 1. One more year in which ChessBase cannot use stockfish.
       | 
       | 2. After a year, they may use it, provided they are in compliance
       | with GPL-3
       | 
       | 3. ChessBase will never again distribute stockfish without
       | obeying the GPL-3
       | 
       | 4. If they don't, the fines and penalties go to the Free Software
       | Foundation Europe
       | 
       | 5. Notices on Chessbase website for a year about this settlement
       | 
       | 6. Cooordinated amicable press release
       | 
       | 7. Chessbase has to have a "Free Software Compliance Officer"
       | 
       | 8. From now on, Chessbase must make truthful comparisons agains
       | stockfish, must open source neural weights, must certify
       | compliance with GPT-3.
       | 
       | 9. This lawsuit is over and resolved
       | 
       | 10. Everyone pays their own legal bills.
       | 
       | Full text, two pages:
        
         | tromp wrote:
         | > 10. Everyone pays their own legal bills.
         | 
         | This is the surprising one to me. Making Chessbase pay for
         | Stockfish's incurred legal fees not only seems justified but
         | would help deter future infringement of open source licences.
        
           | conorcleary wrote:
           | Surprising to see, but seems to make for a better future
           | relationship. It's a game.
        
           | dalbasal wrote:
           | Yes but...
           | 
           | That often leads a dirty game. Litigation, especially license
           | and IP related litigation, is often all about the meta, the
           | strategy games and ulterior or adjacent motives.
           | 
           | The legal action itself, with associated costs and stresses
           | can be scarier than the judgment. Deterrence or establishing
           | legal cases and such can be the motive. Legal costs can be
           | driven up to strategically raise stakes. Etc. It's nice when
           | occasionally the system can be used to settle disputes or do
           | justice.
        
             | dcow wrote:
             | I also wonder about ChessBase's financials. If the costs
             | were too damaging then ChessBase might have to shut down
             | which ultimately isn't good for StockFish. It's possible
             | ChessBase will sadly lose many customers because of the GPL
             | (though it shouldn't be so) because some people in our
             | industry and especially companies are allergic to it.
        
               | Nullabillity wrote:
               | > If the costs were too damaging then ChessBase might
               | have to shut down which ultimately isn't good for
               | StockFish.
               | 
               | Why not? It's not like ChessBase ever contributed
               | anything to StockFish.
               | 
               | > It's possible ChessBase will sadly lose many customers
               | because of the GPL (though it shouldn't be so) because
               | some people in our industry and especially companies are
               | allergic to it.
               | 
               | ChessBase sells B2C chess engines, not libraries. Their
               | customer base is either pro-GPL or don't care about it.
        
           | luciusdomitius wrote:
           | Most probably a crap lawyer - 90% of "lawyers" posses a
           | single skill - to convince the poor soul using their
           | services, that such a "deal" is advantageous.
        
         | solarengineer wrote:
         | "must certify compliance with GPT-3."
         | 
         | Did you mean "must certify compliance with GPL-3." ?
        
           | gpderetta wrote:
           | No no, they literally have to use GPT-3 to write their
           | compliance documents.
        
             | gnrlst wrote:
             | Prompt: A legal document between Stockfish and ChessBase,
             | many pages, great grammar, award winning, breathtaking,
             | groundbreaking, superb, outstanding
        
               | dalbasal wrote:
               | Way tangent but... NLP prompts remind me of websearch
               | circa altavista.
        
               | mananaysiempre wrote:
               | I've been adapting to using the address bar bookmark
               | search in Firefox, and ... I never thought I'd find
               | myself writing Aliexpress-style product (page) titles.
               | "ChessBase GmbH [commercial] and the Stockfish team
               | [stockfish.org] reach an [GPL3 AGPL enforcement
               | compliance lawsuit settlement] agreement and end their
               | legal dispute - Stockfish - [FSF FSFE free software OSI]
               | Open Source Chess Engine"
        
       | bluecalm wrote:
       | I am not surprised they didn't want to spend their time on
       | litigation.
       | 
       | It's sad though there is no consequences for ChessBase. They got
       | a double shot: use someone's else code ignoring the licence and
       | the worst that could happen to you if you're caught is you comply
       | with the license. Not a happy precedent this one.
        
         | conorcleary wrote:
         | There's a list of consequences. They revolve around admitting
         | to fault publicly and committing to supporting & following the
         | licensing agreements.
        
           | InGoodFaith wrote:
           | If the worst is a public mea culpa and following the
           | agreements you should've done in the first place, that barely
           | seems like a deterrent to infringe the license.
           | 
           | Might as well create a crawler bot on github and slurp up all
           | the GPL/AGPL for your new AI-coding startup, iterate fast,
           | make profit, then pay a pittance in legal fees and a small
           | "We're sorry".
        
             | zdragnar wrote:
             | The fines and penalties are deferred. If they violate the
             | agreement again, they pay. They're basically on the
             | equivalent of probation, which is what the plaintiffs
             | wanted in the first place.
        
             | joshuaissac wrote:
             | > Might as well create a crawler bot on github and slurp up
             | all the GPL/AGPL for your new AI-coding startup, iterate
             | fast, make profit
             | 
             | This has already been done.[1]
             | 
             | 1. https://copilot.github.com/
        
       | jesprenj wrote:
       | What does this mean in practice. Is there a tl;dr; of the outcome
       | PDF?
       | 
       | Did the sued company release their software under GPL?
        
         | gjm11 wrote:
         | The article itself summarizes the outcome and is only four
         | paragraphs long.
         | 
         | ChessBase (1) are no longer offering for sale "Fat Fritz 2" and
         | "Houdini" (which contain GPL code from Stockfish), (2)
         | undertake only ever to distribute those products or any others
         | based on Stockfish under the terms of the GPL (which in
         | particular means making source code available), and (3) are
         | going to have a "Free Software Compliance Officer" and a
         | website on which they list products of theirs that make use of
         | free and open-source software, and provide whatever downloads
         | they are required to. Their licence to distribute Stockfish
         | code at all gets reinstated in one year; until then the only
         | thing they're allowed to do is to provide downloads to
         | customers who have already bought Fat Fritz 2 or Houdini, on
         | GPL-compliant terms.
        
           | jesprenj wrote:
           | Thank you! Are they are using Stockfish pro bono for existing
           | customers, or is it under GPL?
        
       | yewenjie wrote:
       | Nice to see the case resolved in about a year. I expected there
       | to be some monetary damages to fund the Stockfish project or
       | something. However, maybe that cannot be done in free software
       | projects.
        
       | porphyra wrote:
       | > Finally, the Stockfish team, unpaid hobbyists that all prefer
       | coding over litigating, did not seek damages or other forms of
       | financial compensation.
       | 
       | These people really are saints.
       | 
       | Anyway, although ChessBase has had some transgressions in the
       | past, it does appear that they have turned over a new leaf so
       | this seems good for free software all around.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-11-19 23:01 UTC)