[HN Gopher] VMware Fusion 13 - native support for Apple Silicon ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       VMware Fusion 13 - native support for Apple Silicon Macs
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 180 points
       Date   : 2022-11-18 19:51 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.macrumors.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.macrumors.com)
        
       | faeriechangling wrote:
       | In practice I've found it more practical to create cloud VMs
       | although I've traditionally used run a Linux and Windows VM on
       | MacBooks. Or just buy a tiny server for a few hundred bucks and
       | leave it plugged in at home and remote into that.
       | 
       | There's too many issues around ARM support and the fact that
       | other Linux and Windows machines generally won't be running ARM.
       | Apple Silicon also has expensive memory upgrades.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Remote Desktop to a virtualized Windows 10 running on VMWare
         | ESXi is what I replaced VMWare Fusion with even before I got
         | this M1. It's unlikely I'll ever upgrade now.
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | This only works if you have a good internet connection. The
           | use case I've always had for VMWare Fusion is that I need to
           | use a Windows app, as if it were local, with my local, multi-
           | gig, files available.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | Remote Desktop works surprisingly well over low bandwidth.
             | I've done it at times using my unlimited hotspot data when
             | I only had 3G speeds
        
               | kkielhofner wrote:
               | RDP is really quite impressive. I host Windows VMs on a
               | Linux server. With quickemu[0] you can fire up a Windows
               | Vm in minutes. It fetches the ISO, sets everything up -
               | even breezes through setup, creates a user, does KMS for
               | activation, etc. One command and a few minutes later
               | you're looking at a Windows desktop. Setup Remote Desktop
               | (with SSH forwarding or VPN of course) and you have a
               | remarkably responsive (even at 4k single and dual
               | display) GUI experience and powerful remote connection -
               | file sharing, sound forwarding, clipboard sharing, even
               | printers and arbitrary devices.
               | 
               | [0] - https://github.com/quickemu-project/quickemu
        
               | whatsthatabout wrote:
               | Never heard of quickemu - looks really cool! Thanks for
               | sharing
        
               | kkielhofner wrote:
               | You're going to love it!
        
               | vaxman wrote:
               | CISA SAYS RDP IS A PRIMARY INFECTION VECTOR FOR HIVE
               | RANSOMWARE ATTACKS (IMPLYING IT SHOULD ONLY BE USED ON
               | PARTITIONED NETWORKS BEHIND SECURE VPNS; HOWEVER, CISA
               | ALSO SAYS VPNS ARE ALSO A PRIMARY INFECTION VECTOR FOR
               | HIVE RANSOMWARE IMPLYING VPNS SHOULD ONLY BE USED WITH
               | MFA).
               | 
               | ymmv
               | 
               | See also "Technical Details" at
               | https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/alerts/aa22-321a
               | 
               | --Downvoters on here always so ignorant ROFLMAO
        
               | pmarreck wrote:
               | you misspelled "remote root protocol" ;)
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Well in my case, it's running on an EC2 instance with no
               | ingress access. I access it by tunneling through Session
               | Manager secured via IAM temporary credentials which
               | itself is secured via a physical MFA device.
               | 
               | (https://medium.com/sai-ops/using-aws-session-manager-to-
               | conn...)
        
               | kkielhofner wrote:
               | Hah totally get your sentiment but in my case it's a port
               | forward bound to loop back to a VM listening on a very
               | well secured Linux machine only accessible with key based
               | SSH. I'm not terribly worried about it.
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | I think you misread my comment.
               | 
               | If you're using a Windows app as part of your Mac
               | workflow (which is often the case if Fusion is being
               | used), you'll put files in a shared mount so the Mac and
               | Windows apps have access to the storage they're on. This
               | doesn't work if you have to transfer files across the
               | internet to start the Windows side of your workflow.
               | 
               | For example, a Windows reporting tool that reads from an
               | sqlite database, which was generated with a Mac workflow,
               | while I'm sitting at a coffee shop.
               | 
               | And, the nicest thing about fusion is that each Windows
               | app appears as a native window, which RDP doesn't seem to
               | have.
        
               | fsiefken wrote:
               | Hi Nomel, the Microsoft RDP clients you can map a
               | directory which is transparently available in both
               | environments. The only constraint is bandwidth.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | jasonjackson wrote:
       | I've been using the beta every single day.
       | 
       | I run a NixOS VM on my Macbook Pro, its transformed the way I
       | develop. Checkout Hashicorp founder's NixOS setup here
       | https://github.com/mitchellh/nixos-config
        
       | reiichiroh wrote:
       | Second year in a row VMware doesn't have any Black Friday
       | discounts
        
         | alexchantavy wrote:
         | Bit of a tangent but do you know of other Black Friday things
         | that the HN crowd would be interested in? Like, I know
         | shodan.io usually does a discount on lifetime subs or something
         | around now.
        
           | reiichiroh wrote:
           | Backblaze usually has a new customer discount and ProtonMail
           | has a 40% off now
        
       | rubyist5eva wrote:
       | Any advantages to this over Parallels?
        
         | blahgeek wrote:
         | It's free for personal use.
        
           | rubyist5eva wrote:
           | Just installed the trial of Fusion Pro 13 and ran it through
           | the paces of our application test suite and benchmarks,
           | performance is...rough, compared to Parallels.
           | 
           | It's nice to have a personal use option, but I'll be sticking
           | with Parallels for pro use since our company doesn't have a
           | big investment in vmware based infrastucture, where I see
           | using Fusion would be a boon but not for my particular case.
        
       | frellus wrote:
       | Hopefully ESX is right behind ... anyone have any updates about
       | this?
        
         | vaxman wrote:
         | The Linux guys will get there first and, in either case, it
         | will help Apple sell more Macs --just don't do it without
         | AppleCare+ and backups of yoh backups (non-Apple software is
         | largely ignorant of Apple's sometimes obscure and marginal
         | thermal management systems). BTW, don't be shy about buying an
         | m1pro/max based MBP --looking at the thermal plate they put on
         | the m2 in the 2022 MBA, it will be a while before I'd trust the
         | new enclosures with a warmer chipset.
        
           | sdze wrote:
           | The MBP M2 has an active cooling fan, or am I wrong? Could be
           | an option. Also no ugly notch and the great touchbar and
           | superior battery runtime. Price-wise the MPB 14" is superior
           | though.
        
       | real-dino wrote:
       | Completely tangential:
       | 
       | I tried VMWire fusion to run multiple browsers to get tickets for
       | Glastonbury.
       | 
       | Are virtual machines ever not slow?
       | 
       | Running 9 virtual machines on an M1 mac, did not work...
       | 
       | I needed to be able to take over at any point, to enter the
       | credit card details etc if successful, so puppeteer would not
       | have been a good solution.
       | 
       | I think I need to rent multiple devices just for the day it
       | seems. Chrome offers multiple profiles so I had 9 browsers, but
       | you only get 60 refreshes per minute n an IP address. I would
       | need to redirect some of the chrome instances, and have the
       | screen real estate to handle it.
        
         | Demonsult wrote:
         | To run multiple browsers in one sense, use the --user-data-dir
         | flag for Chromium based browsers. Give each of the 9 instances
         | their own directory.
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | Given the significant support for virtualization in macOS and the
       | popularity of macs amongst unix devs, I am a bit surprised that
       | Apple has not yet sherlocked the VMM configuration UI.
        
       | smnrchrds wrote:
       | Is there a way to run x64 Windows on M1 Macs?
        
         | foodstances wrote:
         | qemu, but it will be slow because the kernel/processor can't do
         | the heavy lifting.
        
           | cdavid wrote:
           | in recent version of macos, you can run x86 app through
           | rosetta inside arm VMs:
           | https://docs.getutm.app/advanced/rosetta/
           | 
           | I did a few basic tests and the performances were quite
           | impressive.
        
             | bpye wrote:
             | Equally the x64 emulation in Windows 11 works just fine if
             | you run an ARM64 Windows 11 VM.
        
         | 58028641 wrote:
         | Why? ARM Windows can run x64 apps.
        
         | cassianoleal wrote:
         | I haven't tried it but I imagine QEMU / UTM can do that. It's
         | emulated though, and will have a non-negligible performance
         | penalty.
        
       | kwanbix wrote:
       | I love what apple have done with the M1/M2 procesor. Really
       | impresive.
       | 
       | I wish their macbooks had mate screen, trackpoint, and were made
       | of carbon
       | 
       | Like a thinkpad with the M2 inside.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | you can get matte screen, same product as papermate uses for
         | ipad pro to let Apple Pencil feel like it's writing on paper
         | 
         | after a couple years of matte, i can't stand iPad Pro screen
         | w/o it
         | 
         | used to swear by trackpoint, it can't "gesture" or "multi-
         | touch" tho, magic trackpad converges Macbook with iPad, so
         | worth getting one for desktop Macs too
        
       | perbu wrote:
       | If you just want a Linux kernel and user space, to see that your
       | stuff works OK there as well, I'd really recommend Multipass from
       | Canonical. It likely only works with Ubuntu but it is nicely
       | integrated with Macos and requires no setup.
       | 
       | And it can be installed through a brew cask.
        
         | irusensei wrote:
         | That's the first time I hear about this software. Thank you.
        
           | justinmcp wrote:
           | Same, thanks for mentioning.
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | I would be tempted to try this but both of my M1 Macs only have
       | 8G of memory.
       | 
       | For text/shell only Linux, I have been using
       | https://github.com/lima-vm/lima for the last week and for what I
       | needed (I wanted to setup picolisp and Emacs for some
       | experiments) it was all good.
        
       | _ph_ wrote:
       | Great news, I have been waiting quite some time for this! I am
       | using VMware Fusion a lot on my Intel based Macs (most of my day-
       | to-day work is on Linux in a VM) and just have been waiting for
       | VMWare on ARM Macs.
       | 
       | While I also have used Parallels, I just find VMware the solution
       | which works best with me. One of the features of course was to be
       | able to run modern Linux kernels without the needs of installing
       | custom drivers as the necessary drivers where part of the Linux
       | kernel. Parallels requires drivers which often where quite a bit
       | behind the Fedora releases.
        
         | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
         | Is this because you need to be in a full blown Linux is for
         | some reason? Otherwise you could just mount a local volume in
         | docker and run that right?
        
           | _ph_ wrote:
           | Yes, I want to be in a full blown Linux. With the complete
           | software a Linux distribution brings (for me mostly Fedora)
           | and of course the full GUI support.
        
       | Rimintil wrote:
       | I had a hard time finding the free version. You need to register
       | an account, but this should be a direct link to the download
       | page:
       | 
       | https://customerconnect.vmware.com/downloads/details?downloa...
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | Thank you.
         | 
         | Every time anyone in the office had to go on their website,
         | everyone knew from the groans, moans and thumps.
         | 
         | It's an abomination.
        
         | rjzzleep wrote:
         | Wait there is a free version? What's the limitation?
        
           | lloeki wrote:
           | There's a "Compare" tab here:
           | https://www.vmware.com/products/fusion.html
           | 
           | This is only in the Pro column:                   Virtual
           | Network Customization (NAT, network rename)         Virtual
           | Network Simulation (Packet Loss, Latency, Bandwidth)
           | Connect to vSphere / ESXi         Create Linked Clones
           | Create Full Clones         Trial License
           | 
           | This bit is only in the Player column:                   Free
           | for Personal Use
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Fusion Player offers a Personal Use License, available for
           | free with a valid MyVMware account. Home users, Open Source
           | contributors, students, and anyone else can use Fusion Player
           | Free for Non-Commercial activity.
        
         | antipaul wrote:
         | Thanks
         | 
         | I gave up after 45 minutes... They want so much
         | information/cookies/tracking but even after changing browsers
         | and (temporarily) disabling all security/privacy, I couldn't
         | download.
        
           | ninjin-carh wrote:
           | same - the register page doesn't work at all. I just gave up.
           | If it worked for personal use I may have recommended it for
           | work but as it is Parallels or UTM will be my go to choices.
        
         | lloeki wrote:
         | Alternatively, go there[0], click "Download now" under "Fusion
         | 13 Pro for macOS 12+".
         | 
         | Upon first launch, it'll prompt you to either enter a Pro
         | license, try Pro for 30 days, or go straight to Player (still
         | requires a free license key, obtained via registration).
         | 
         | [0]: https://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/fusion-
         | evaluation.htm...
        
       | e40 wrote:
       | Too little too late. And, on x64 I switched to Parallels because
       | I had problems installing the most recent macOS on several
       | machines.
       | 
       | It's clear that VMware has hampered their ability to support
       | their products (bugs and time to get this release out).
       | 
       | It's disappointing, because I like the UI of VMware more than
       | Parallels (yes, probably because I used VMware for many years).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | scrlk wrote:
         | VMware laid off their US based Workstation/Fusion team a few
         | years back and moved development over to China. The China based
         | team was then laid off in 2021 with development moving to
         | India.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | Why did they do that? Is it because VirtualBox and containers
           | destroyed the market for them? Not enough money to bother
           | competing with Parallels?
        
           | geraldwhen wrote:
           | This is the move for any business intending to cut costs to
           | near 0 and ride out a user base subscription to inevitable
           | product death.
           | 
           | I've seen this happen multiple times; there are whole
           | companies with this as their business model.
        
         | nottorp wrote:
         | It probably depends on your use case. You seem to run Mac OS
         | inside Mac OS?
         | 
         | On my end I've tried Parallels but my use case involves a lot
         | of passing USB devices to a Windows or Linux VM and VMWare has
         | been much better for that.
         | 
         | Although... the point is moot now. I bought a new amd box for
         | running the x86 stuff, in preparation to moving my OS X machine
         | to Mx when I feel brave enough.
        
           | e40 wrote:
           | Yes, I do a lot of macOS inside macOS, but I do Windows and
           | Ubuntu, too.
           | 
           | The macOS support was just horrible in the last 1-2 years. I
           | had purchased copies for 3 machines and I couldn't get stuff
           | to work on any of them.
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | I don't like that Parallels requires a subscription to get more
         | than 8 GB of RAM in a virtual machine so I'll be sticking with
         | VMWare Fusion when I get an Apple Silicon Mac.
         | 
         | That's assuming that I decide that I actually need such a
         | product. Most of my use of VMWare Fusion on my Intel Mac is to
         | run Linux VMs. I recently have switched to using Docker for
         | that.
         | 
         | The only real snag was that I want services running in a Docker
         | container to be reachable from Mac processes on the same port
         | they would be on when deployed on a real server somewhere.
         | E.g., if I've got a server that would be foo.com when live on a
         | real server that I'm testing locally in a container, I want it
         | to appear at some_ip:443 on my Mac, not on something like
         | localhost:8443 that Docker maps to port 443 in the container.
         | 
         | That turned out to be not too difficult to deal with by using
         | Wireguard. Specifically, Wireguard between the Linux VM that
         | Docker Mac creates to run containers and the Mac.
         | 
         | If Docker Mac works as well on Apple Silicon I might be able to
         | just stick with that and not need either VMWare or Parallels.
        
           | alrlroipsp wrote:
           | > I want it to appear at some_ip:443 on my Mac, not on
           | something like localhost:8443
           | 
           | You can add hostnames to /etc/hosts if "localhost" bothers
           | you.
           | 
           | Then you map ports to host ports using the -p docker
           | argument.
           | 
           | Solving this with wireguard sounds like super overkill.
        
             | tzs wrote:
             | The typical case is that I'm testing with client code on my
             | desktop that expects to talk to some particular server,
             | such as db.work.com, on some particular port, say 3306. I
             | don't want to run the client in a VM or container.
             | 
             | I want to run a test version of that server on a VM or in a
             | container, and have that client connect to it, but I do not
             | want to modify the client.
             | 
             | So I want to make an /etc/hosts entry for db.work.com
             | giving the IP address of the VM or container that I'm
             | running the test server in.
             | 
             | That works great with VMWare Fusion. The VM gets an IP
             | address on my Mac, and I use that in the /etc/hosts entry.
             | 
             | That would also work great if I were running Linux instead
             | of Mac OS, because Docker containers on Linux get IP
             | addresses that are visible. I'd just have to put the
             | container IP on the db.work.com /etc/hosts entry.
             | 
             | On Mac Docker runs a Linux VM and then the containers run
             | in that. They don't have IP addresses that are visible to
             | the Mac. For a lot of things that is fine. With the -p
             | argument you can arrange to have a localhost port mapped to
             | some port on the container.
             | 
             | But in my case that doesn't quite cut it. The client wants
             | to connect to port 3306. I can't just map localhost:3306 to
             | the container and put db.work.com in /etc/hosts pointing to
             | 127.0.0.1 because I've already got something on 127.0.0.1
             | that is using 3306.
             | 
             | Hence Wireguard so that I can have an IP address for the
             | container that is visible on the Mac.
        
           | codetrotter wrote:
           | > If Docker Mac works as well on Apple Silicon I might be
           | able to just stick with that and not need either VMWare or
           | Parallels.
           | 
           | MacBook Pro M1 Max user here. Yes, Docker Mac works on Apple
           | Silicon.
           | 
           | Make sure to use Docker images built for Arm. M1 Rosetta is
           | good, but is not used for Docker images. If you run Docker
           | images for x86_64 in Docker Mac on Apple Silicon it's
           | noticeably slower. Whereas running docker images built for
           | Arm is fast.
        
           | ammanley wrote:
           | I might be reading this wrong, but is this something where
           | you could launch your containerized app running on whatever
           | port, and map it to `localhost:443` using something along the
           | lines of `docker run -p 127.0.0.1:443:<whatever port in the
           | container> My-App-Image` ? (might need sudo). I read this as
           | wanting to have <your IP>:443 proxy to the container. Hope
           | I'm not crazy.
        
             | tzs wrote:
             | The problem with "-p 127.0.0.1:443:<whatever port in the
             | container>" is that there is already something on
             | 127.0.0.1:443.
             | 
             | If I were running Docker on Linux this would not be a
             | problem. I'd simply use bridged networking in the container
             | which would give the container an IP that works for things
             | running on the Linux host.
             | 
             | To access something on <whatever port in the container> I'd
             | then just use <container IP>:<whatever port in the
             | container>.
             | 
             | Docker Mac runs a Linux VM and then runs your containers on
             | that Linux VM. Bridged networking there just bridges the
             | containers to the Linux VM. The container's IP is not
             | visible to the Mac, just to the Linux VM.
             | 
             | So I'm using Wireguard to tunnel between the Linux VM and
             | the Mac, so that the container IPs end up visible on the
             | Mac.
             | 
             | In case anyone else finds this useful, here are details of
             | my setup.
             | 
             | * I've got a Docker network name "Mynet" that I put
             | containers on with statically assigned IP addresses (e.g.,
             | "--network Mynet --ip 10.11.12.10"). Mynet has gateway
             | 10.11.12.1. It was created with this command:
             | 
             | docker network create --driver=bridge --subnet
             | 10.11.12.0/24 --ip-range=10.11.12.128/25
             | --gateway=10.11.12.1 Mynet
             | 
             | IP address 10.11.12.128-254 are dynamically allocated to
             | containers that are run with "---network Mynet" but not
             | assigned a static IP. 10.11.12.2-127 can be used for static
             | IPs.
             | 
             | * On the Wireguard tunnel, I've given my Mac IP 10.11.0.2
             | and the Docker Linux VM IP 10.11.0.3.
             | 
             | * The Mac IP address on my home network is 192.168.0.2.
             | 
             | * I've made a Docker alpine image, which I named alpine-wg,
             | that is just the base alpine image with the Wireguard tools
             | installed. The Docker Mac Linux VM has Wireguard kernel
             | support built in, so you just need an image with the tools
             | in order to configure it.
             | 
             | * I've generated key pairs for the Mac and the Linux VM.
             | 
             | * Here is my Wireguard conf file for the Mac (stored on Mac
             | as ~/wg/mac/wg.conf).                 [Interface]
             | Address = 10.11.0.2/32       PrivateKey = <Mac private key>
             | ListenPort = 51820            # docker VM       [Peer]
             | AllowedIPs = 10.11.0.3/32, 10.11.12.0/24       PublicKey =
             | <Linux VM public key>
             | 
             | * Here is the Wireguard conf file for the Linux VM (stored
             | on Mac as ~/wg/linux-vm/base.conf):
             | [Interface]       Address = 10.11.0.3/32       ListenPort =
             | 51820       PrivateKey = <Linux VM private key>
             | [Peer]       AllowedIPs = 10.11.0.2/32       PublicKey =
             | <Mac public key>       EndPoint = 192.168.0.2:51820
             | PersistentKeepalive = 25
             | 
             | * Commands to run on the Mac:                 # bring up
             | the tunnel       sudo wg-quick up /Users/tzs/wg/mac/wg.conf
             | # take down the tunnel       sudo wg-quick down
             | /Users/tzs/wg/mac/wg.conf
             | 
             | * Aliases on the Mac to bring up, take down, and show the
             | tunnel on the Linux VM:                 alias linux-wg-
             | up='docker container run -it --rm --privileged --pid=host
             | -v ~/wg/linux-vm:/wg alpine-wg nsenter -t 1 -u -n -i wg-
             | quick up /wg/base.conf'            alias linux-wg-
             | down='docker container run -it --rm --privileged --pid=host
             | -v ~/wg/linux-vm:/wg alpine-wg nsenter -t 1 -u -n -i wg-
             | quick down /wg/base.conf'            alias linux-wg-
             | show='docker container run -it --rm --privileged --pid=host
             | -v ~/wg/linux-vm:/wg alpine-wg nsenter -t 1 -u -n -i wg
             | show'
        
               | skydhash wrote:
               | I have a similar need for work (k8s instead of docker)
               | and I just use the routing table on my router and
               | `/etc/hosts` files (need domain names fir certificates)
               | works easy.
        
               | ammanley wrote:
               | This was a fascinating read, thank you for sharing. TIL!
               | 
               | EDIT: Is your home IP address for your mac static? Seems
               | like if it was dynamic, this would need to be updated,
               | though I know you can use some simple programs to
               | dynamically inquire for the IP, and then just template it
               | out into the config files before launching, just in case.
        
         | ianlevesque wrote:
         | The graphics support in particular sounds like a total mess:
         | 
         | > For Graphics, Fusion 13 sports OpenGL 4.3 in Windows and
         | Linux VMs on Intel, and in Linux VMs on Apple Silicon.
         | 
         | > On Intel, Windows continues to enjoy DirectX 11 graphics, and
         | Fusion continues to support eGPU devices for incredible
         | performance using some of the fastest GPU's available.
         | 
         | > On Apple Silicon, Fusion can deliver OpenGL 4.3 with blazing
         | fast 3D hardware acceleration to arm-based Linux virtual
         | machines with Linux kernel 5.19 or greater.
         | 
         | So if I am reading this correctly, Windows on Apple Silicon
         | doesn't have accelerated 3D at all? And even on Intel they are
         | 10 full years behind with no support for DirectX 12.
         | 
         | I guess this is what happens six years after firing the entire
         | team, once you can no longer coast on past innovations.
         | https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/01/vmwar...
        
           | Raymonf wrote:
           | Other than Hyper-V, what hypervisor can paravirtualize
           | DirectX 12?
        
       | yug wrote:
       | Installed it on my Intel MBP, upgraded my virtual machines to a
       | new format version and now regretting it. The Bootcamp VM does
       | not boot at all and the Win 7 VM is in an infinite restart-repair
       | loop.
       | 
       | Thank God I have backups to revert to.
        
         | ngcc_hk wrote:
         | Many steps ?
         | 
         | recovery, reset on csr then reboot delete old boot camp very
         | small link (<100mb) and do a new boot camp vm and go back to
         | recovery and enable csr Reboot
         | 
         | But is to true for other vm?
        
           | yug wrote:
           | No, not many steps. Just restoring Fusion 12 and
           | Win7.vmwarevm from Time Machine and recreating a bootcamp vm.
           | Easy
           | 
           | I'm a VMWare Fusion user since ver.6, I think, and I've never
           | experienced anything like this :( Shocking
        
       | a-b wrote:
       | Apple has quite strict virtualization constraints in its user
       | agreement. I'm wondering if this is going to change any time
       | soon.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | This always comes up, but what does it actually prevent? Has
         | Apple ever enforced it? It would seem likely that doing so
         | would be hitting their power users.
        
           | Aaron2222 wrote:
           | They enforce it in their Virtualization framework:
           | https://eclecticlight.co/2022/08/04/virtualisation-on-
           | apple-...
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | And they specify it must be on Apple hardware.
             | 
             | They don't enforce that though I don't think, but I wonder
             | if anyone has been caught or sued?
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | It sounds like a GUI around the Apple HV FW.
        
         | pitterpatter wrote:
         | The hypervisor framework doesn't provide a lot of extra things
         | which are implemented by whatever VMM you're using. Qemu can
         | also use Hypervisor.framework but you certainly wouldn't say
         | it's exactly 1-1 w/ VMware Fusion.
        
       | sdze wrote:
       | Does VMWare Fusion 12 run on macOS Ventura? (Not a apple m
       | question)
        
       | nwpierce wrote:
        
       | rdl wrote:
       | I switched to Parallels due to VMware's lack of Apple Silicon
       | support; it's been a great experience for Windows 11 (and does a
       | great job of bundling the Windows 11 ARM installer, etc.)
       | 
       | Crossover works surprisingly well for games, too.
        
       | kasajian wrote:
       | It's impossible read an article on macrumors.com. Every 30
       | seconds, the page jumps because of an ad. I don't think Web is
       | meant to do that.
        
         | Synaesthesia wrote:
         | Get yourself a good ad-blocker, I can't even surf the web
         | without one.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | illiac786 wrote:
       | Still not drag&drop and no shared folder?? Seriously? For $150!?
        
       | acdanger wrote:
       | Any news on Bootcamp for Silicon?
        
         | dwaite wrote:
         | It is highly unlikely - the boot process isn't standardized,
         | nor will there be manufacturer-provided drivers for a good
         | portion of the Apple SoC features.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | There was this but it's 404'ed
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31657591
        
       | jasoneckert wrote:
       | The UTM experience (https://mac.getutm.app/) has been stellar for
       | me. Knowing that others have commented on this being a rough
       | initial release, I really have no reason to try it out.
       | 
       | And while UTM was relatively unknown a year ago, it's become
       | quite popular in my circle of Apple Silicon users, so I imagine
       | VMWare's reception on Apple Silicon is going to be lukewarm at
       | best.
        
         | EVADKN wrote:
         | never managed to run win11 so I gave up
        
           | jedisct1 wrote:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9opNMFY497o
           | 
           | Windows 11 runs beautifully on UTM.
        
         | mgiampapa wrote:
         | UTM's lack of any accelerated graphics makes a non-starter for
         | most desktop applications these days. It's fine as a frontend
         | to QEMU, but that's all it is. Fusion and Parallels will
         | continue to dominate this space on MacOS.
        
           | maxmouchet wrote:
           | They do but it's experimental and only for Linux guests:
           | https://github.com/utmapp/UTM/releases/tag/v2.2.4
        
             | bogantech wrote:
             | Fingers crossed that it eventually works but for me it
             | invariably results in a crash or graphical corruption
             | making my VM unusable regardless of the distro (have tried
             | Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian etc)
        
             | irusensei wrote:
             | Unironically the best experience for Linux in my case is no
             | graphics adapter but instead a serial console. You can copy
             | and paste text from the vm console window without any
             | additions!
        
           | dtgriscom wrote:
           | Why is accelerated graphics mandatory? I'd think most non-
           | gaming, non-graphics-heavy apps would do fine with the CPU.
        
             | skydhash wrote:
             | Most desktop nowadays have a compositor that rely on the
             | gpu to render nice effects like blur, transparency,
             | animations (including keeping the content of the window
             | while dragging).
        
             | neurostimulant wrote:
             | Electron apps (and other apps that uses Chromium Embedded
             | Framework) are commonplace these days and they requires GPU
             | acceleration. They'll crash if launched on system without
             | gpu acceleration. Sure you can pass a command line argument
             | to disable gpu acceleration to those apps (e.g. `--disable-
             | gpu` on most electron apps and `--no-zygote` on apps that
             | use chrome embedded framework like spotify), but you can't
             | expect average users to know how to do that.
        
           | Rimintil wrote:
           | With Fusion 13, I see no way of creating a macOS guest VM. It
           | isn't in the VM options list. UTM will automagically connect
           | to Apple's servers and download the latest version.
           | 
           | Problem with UTM is there is no copy/paste or file transfer
           | between a macOS host and guest which is a huge barrier. I'm
           | spoiled by Hyper-V enhanced sessions, I suppose.
        
             | mrpippy wrote:
             | Fusion only supports MacOS VMs on Intel, are you on Apple
             | Silicon?
        
         | mk_stjames wrote:
         | I just got Windows 7 running on an M1 Macbook Pro with UTM
         | today actually. It took a bit of configuring but I am getting
         | pretty amazing performance considering it's having to do a full
         | ISA emulation (not using Rosetta.. QEMU can use Rosetta to
         | translate for Linux ELF's in Linux VM's but it doesn't seem
         | like it can do so under an x86 Windows VM). I have one legacy
         | Windows application that I need sometimes randomly when
         | traveling and this is amazing that it runs as well as it does-
         | it is a program using OpenGL and the performance is useable for
         | basic tasks and I am just using a the default VGA card
         | emulation, I haven't even setup any advanced GPU card emulation
         | yet. I'm blown away.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | If you Crossover works for your app you can pipe x86 32 but
           | apps through Rosetta 2 and Crossover will bridge the GPU
           | stuff to an actual GPU. This is a lifesaver for me on 1
           | ancient app I have to use for work.
        
         | rattray wrote:
         | Can it be used with docker for Mac, or some competitor?
        
           | speedgoose wrote:
           | You probably would prefer colima to get an easy VM for
           | docker/kubernetes using qemu in the background.
        
             | rattray wrote:
             | Nice, thank you! This does look promising.
             | 
             | https://www.arthurkoziel.com/replacing-docker-desktop-for-
             | ma...
             | 
             | According to this article, file sharing between the
             | container and the host is about 80% faster in Colima than
             | Docker Desktop for Mac, but still much slower than native:
             | # Docker Desktop for Mac         IOPS: 1545
             | Bandwidth: 6.3MB/s              # Colima         IOPS: 2786
             | Bandwidth: 11.4MB/s              # Native         IOPS:
             | 28.6k         Bandwidth: 117MB/s
             | 
             | Colima doesn't have all the annoying popups, telemetry, and
             | other commercial aspects that turn off many developers from
             | Docker Desktop for Mac. It sounds like a drop-in
             | replacement otherwise. Terrific!
             | 
             | I'll still try to keep as much development native as
             | possible for now, but if it ever gets to be a real pain
             | I'll give Colima a try before mixing docker entirely.
        
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