[HN Gopher] VMware Fusion 13 - native support for Apple Silicon ...
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VMware Fusion 13 - native support for Apple Silicon Macs
Author : tosh
Score : 180 points
Date : 2022-11-18 19:51 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.macrumors.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.macrumors.com)
| faeriechangling wrote:
| In practice I've found it more practical to create cloud VMs
| although I've traditionally used run a Linux and Windows VM on
| MacBooks. Or just buy a tiny server for a few hundred bucks and
| leave it plugged in at home and remote into that.
|
| There's too many issues around ARM support and the fact that
| other Linux and Windows machines generally won't be running ARM.
| Apple Silicon also has expensive memory upgrades.
| bombcar wrote:
| Remote Desktop to a virtualized Windows 10 running on VMWare
| ESXi is what I replaced VMWare Fusion with even before I got
| this M1. It's unlikely I'll ever upgrade now.
| nomel wrote:
| This only works if you have a good internet connection. The
| use case I've always had for VMWare Fusion is that I need to
| use a Windows app, as if it were local, with my local, multi-
| gig, files available.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Remote Desktop works surprisingly well over low bandwidth.
| I've done it at times using my unlimited hotspot data when
| I only had 3G speeds
| kkielhofner wrote:
| RDP is really quite impressive. I host Windows VMs on a
| Linux server. With quickemu[0] you can fire up a Windows
| Vm in minutes. It fetches the ISO, sets everything up -
| even breezes through setup, creates a user, does KMS for
| activation, etc. One command and a few minutes later
| you're looking at a Windows desktop. Setup Remote Desktop
| (with SSH forwarding or VPN of course) and you have a
| remarkably responsive (even at 4k single and dual
| display) GUI experience and powerful remote connection -
| file sharing, sound forwarding, clipboard sharing, even
| printers and arbitrary devices.
|
| [0] - https://github.com/quickemu-project/quickemu
| whatsthatabout wrote:
| Never heard of quickemu - looks really cool! Thanks for
| sharing
| kkielhofner wrote:
| You're going to love it!
| vaxman wrote:
| CISA SAYS RDP IS A PRIMARY INFECTION VECTOR FOR HIVE
| RANSOMWARE ATTACKS (IMPLYING IT SHOULD ONLY BE USED ON
| PARTITIONED NETWORKS BEHIND SECURE VPNS; HOWEVER, CISA
| ALSO SAYS VPNS ARE ALSO A PRIMARY INFECTION VECTOR FOR
| HIVE RANSOMWARE IMPLYING VPNS SHOULD ONLY BE USED WITH
| MFA).
|
| ymmv
|
| See also "Technical Details" at
| https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/alerts/aa22-321a
|
| --Downvoters on here always so ignorant ROFLMAO
| pmarreck wrote:
| you misspelled "remote root protocol" ;)
| scarface74 wrote:
| Well in my case, it's running on an EC2 instance with no
| ingress access. I access it by tunneling through Session
| Manager secured via IAM temporary credentials which
| itself is secured via a physical MFA device.
|
| (https://medium.com/sai-ops/using-aws-session-manager-to-
| conn...)
| kkielhofner wrote:
| Hah totally get your sentiment but in my case it's a port
| forward bound to loop back to a VM listening on a very
| well secured Linux machine only accessible with key based
| SSH. I'm not terribly worried about it.
| nomel wrote:
| I think you misread my comment.
|
| If you're using a Windows app as part of your Mac
| workflow (which is often the case if Fusion is being
| used), you'll put files in a shared mount so the Mac and
| Windows apps have access to the storage they're on. This
| doesn't work if you have to transfer files across the
| internet to start the Windows side of your workflow.
|
| For example, a Windows reporting tool that reads from an
| sqlite database, which was generated with a Mac workflow,
| while I'm sitting at a coffee shop.
|
| And, the nicest thing about fusion is that each Windows
| app appears as a native window, which RDP doesn't seem to
| have.
| fsiefken wrote:
| Hi Nomel, the Microsoft RDP clients you can map a
| directory which is transparently available in both
| environments. The only constraint is bandwidth.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| jasonjackson wrote:
| I've been using the beta every single day.
|
| I run a NixOS VM on my Macbook Pro, its transformed the way I
| develop. Checkout Hashicorp founder's NixOS setup here
| https://github.com/mitchellh/nixos-config
| reiichiroh wrote:
| Second year in a row VMware doesn't have any Black Friday
| discounts
| alexchantavy wrote:
| Bit of a tangent but do you know of other Black Friday things
| that the HN crowd would be interested in? Like, I know
| shodan.io usually does a discount on lifetime subs or something
| around now.
| reiichiroh wrote:
| Backblaze usually has a new customer discount and ProtonMail
| has a 40% off now
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| Any advantages to this over Parallels?
| blahgeek wrote:
| It's free for personal use.
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| Just installed the trial of Fusion Pro 13 and ran it through
| the paces of our application test suite and benchmarks,
| performance is...rough, compared to Parallels.
|
| It's nice to have a personal use option, but I'll be sticking
| with Parallels for pro use since our company doesn't have a
| big investment in vmware based infrastucture, where I see
| using Fusion would be a boon but not for my particular case.
| frellus wrote:
| Hopefully ESX is right behind ... anyone have any updates about
| this?
| vaxman wrote:
| The Linux guys will get there first and, in either case, it
| will help Apple sell more Macs --just don't do it without
| AppleCare+ and backups of yoh backups (non-Apple software is
| largely ignorant of Apple's sometimes obscure and marginal
| thermal management systems). BTW, don't be shy about buying an
| m1pro/max based MBP --looking at the thermal plate they put on
| the m2 in the 2022 MBA, it will be a while before I'd trust the
| new enclosures with a warmer chipset.
| sdze wrote:
| The MBP M2 has an active cooling fan, or am I wrong? Could be
| an option. Also no ugly notch and the great touchbar and
| superior battery runtime. Price-wise the MPB 14" is superior
| though.
| real-dino wrote:
| Completely tangential:
|
| I tried VMWire fusion to run multiple browsers to get tickets for
| Glastonbury.
|
| Are virtual machines ever not slow?
|
| Running 9 virtual machines on an M1 mac, did not work...
|
| I needed to be able to take over at any point, to enter the
| credit card details etc if successful, so puppeteer would not
| have been a good solution.
|
| I think I need to rent multiple devices just for the day it
| seems. Chrome offers multiple profiles so I had 9 browsers, but
| you only get 60 refreshes per minute n an IP address. I would
| need to redirect some of the chrome instances, and have the
| screen real estate to handle it.
| Demonsult wrote:
| To run multiple browsers in one sense, use the --user-data-dir
| flag for Chromium based browsers. Give each of the 9 instances
| their own directory.
| sneak wrote:
| Given the significant support for virtualization in macOS and the
| popularity of macs amongst unix devs, I am a bit surprised that
| Apple has not yet sherlocked the VMM configuration UI.
| smnrchrds wrote:
| Is there a way to run x64 Windows on M1 Macs?
| foodstances wrote:
| qemu, but it will be slow because the kernel/processor can't do
| the heavy lifting.
| cdavid wrote:
| in recent version of macos, you can run x86 app through
| rosetta inside arm VMs:
| https://docs.getutm.app/advanced/rosetta/
|
| I did a few basic tests and the performances were quite
| impressive.
| bpye wrote:
| Equally the x64 emulation in Windows 11 works just fine if
| you run an ARM64 Windows 11 VM.
| 58028641 wrote:
| Why? ARM Windows can run x64 apps.
| cassianoleal wrote:
| I haven't tried it but I imagine QEMU / UTM can do that. It's
| emulated though, and will have a non-negligible performance
| penalty.
| kwanbix wrote:
| I love what apple have done with the M1/M2 procesor. Really
| impresive.
|
| I wish their macbooks had mate screen, trackpoint, and were made
| of carbon
|
| Like a thinkpad with the M2 inside.
| Terretta wrote:
| you can get matte screen, same product as papermate uses for
| ipad pro to let Apple Pencil feel like it's writing on paper
|
| after a couple years of matte, i can't stand iPad Pro screen
| w/o it
|
| used to swear by trackpoint, it can't "gesture" or "multi-
| touch" tho, magic trackpad converges Macbook with iPad, so
| worth getting one for desktop Macs too
| perbu wrote:
| If you just want a Linux kernel and user space, to see that your
| stuff works OK there as well, I'd really recommend Multipass from
| Canonical. It likely only works with Ubuntu but it is nicely
| integrated with Macos and requires no setup.
|
| And it can be installed through a brew cask.
| irusensei wrote:
| That's the first time I hear about this software. Thank you.
| justinmcp wrote:
| Same, thanks for mentioning.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I would be tempted to try this but both of my M1 Macs only have
| 8G of memory.
|
| For text/shell only Linux, I have been using
| https://github.com/lima-vm/lima for the last week and for what I
| needed (I wanted to setup picolisp and Emacs for some
| experiments) it was all good.
| _ph_ wrote:
| Great news, I have been waiting quite some time for this! I am
| using VMware Fusion a lot on my Intel based Macs (most of my day-
| to-day work is on Linux in a VM) and just have been waiting for
| VMWare on ARM Macs.
|
| While I also have used Parallels, I just find VMware the solution
| which works best with me. One of the features of course was to be
| able to run modern Linux kernels without the needs of installing
| custom drivers as the necessary drivers where part of the Linux
| kernel. Parallels requires drivers which often where quite a bit
| behind the Fedora releases.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| Is this because you need to be in a full blown Linux is for
| some reason? Otherwise you could just mount a local volume in
| docker and run that right?
| _ph_ wrote:
| Yes, I want to be in a full blown Linux. With the complete
| software a Linux distribution brings (for me mostly Fedora)
| and of course the full GUI support.
| Rimintil wrote:
| I had a hard time finding the free version. You need to register
| an account, but this should be a direct link to the download
| page:
|
| https://customerconnect.vmware.com/downloads/details?downloa...
| lostlogin wrote:
| Thank you.
|
| Every time anyone in the office had to go on their website,
| everyone knew from the groans, moans and thumps.
|
| It's an abomination.
| rjzzleep wrote:
| Wait there is a free version? What's the limitation?
| lloeki wrote:
| There's a "Compare" tab here:
| https://www.vmware.com/products/fusion.html
|
| This is only in the Pro column: Virtual
| Network Customization (NAT, network rename) Virtual
| Network Simulation (Packet Loss, Latency, Bandwidth)
| Connect to vSphere / ESXi Create Linked Clones
| Create Full Clones Trial License
|
| This bit is only in the Player column: Free
| for Personal Use
| bombcar wrote:
| Fusion Player offers a Personal Use License, available for
| free with a valid MyVMware account. Home users, Open Source
| contributors, students, and anyone else can use Fusion Player
| Free for Non-Commercial activity.
| antipaul wrote:
| Thanks
|
| I gave up after 45 minutes... They want so much
| information/cookies/tracking but even after changing browsers
| and (temporarily) disabling all security/privacy, I couldn't
| download.
| ninjin-carh wrote:
| same - the register page doesn't work at all. I just gave up.
| If it worked for personal use I may have recommended it for
| work but as it is Parallels or UTM will be my go to choices.
| lloeki wrote:
| Alternatively, go there[0], click "Download now" under "Fusion
| 13 Pro for macOS 12+".
|
| Upon first launch, it'll prompt you to either enter a Pro
| license, try Pro for 30 days, or go straight to Player (still
| requires a free license key, obtained via registration).
|
| [0]: https://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/fusion-
| evaluation.htm...
| e40 wrote:
| Too little too late. And, on x64 I switched to Parallels because
| I had problems installing the most recent macOS on several
| machines.
|
| It's clear that VMware has hampered their ability to support
| their products (bugs and time to get this release out).
|
| It's disappointing, because I like the UI of VMware more than
| Parallels (yes, probably because I used VMware for many years).
| [deleted]
| scrlk wrote:
| VMware laid off their US based Workstation/Fusion team a few
| years back and moved development over to China. The China based
| team was then laid off in 2021 with development moving to
| India.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Why did they do that? Is it because VirtualBox and containers
| destroyed the market for them? Not enough money to bother
| competing with Parallels?
| geraldwhen wrote:
| This is the move for any business intending to cut costs to
| near 0 and ride out a user base subscription to inevitable
| product death.
|
| I've seen this happen multiple times; there are whole
| companies with this as their business model.
| nottorp wrote:
| It probably depends on your use case. You seem to run Mac OS
| inside Mac OS?
|
| On my end I've tried Parallels but my use case involves a lot
| of passing USB devices to a Windows or Linux VM and VMWare has
| been much better for that.
|
| Although... the point is moot now. I bought a new amd box for
| running the x86 stuff, in preparation to moving my OS X machine
| to Mx when I feel brave enough.
| e40 wrote:
| Yes, I do a lot of macOS inside macOS, but I do Windows and
| Ubuntu, too.
|
| The macOS support was just horrible in the last 1-2 years. I
| had purchased copies for 3 machines and I couldn't get stuff
| to work on any of them.
| tzs wrote:
| I don't like that Parallels requires a subscription to get more
| than 8 GB of RAM in a virtual machine so I'll be sticking with
| VMWare Fusion when I get an Apple Silicon Mac.
|
| That's assuming that I decide that I actually need such a
| product. Most of my use of VMWare Fusion on my Intel Mac is to
| run Linux VMs. I recently have switched to using Docker for
| that.
|
| The only real snag was that I want services running in a Docker
| container to be reachable from Mac processes on the same port
| they would be on when deployed on a real server somewhere.
| E.g., if I've got a server that would be foo.com when live on a
| real server that I'm testing locally in a container, I want it
| to appear at some_ip:443 on my Mac, not on something like
| localhost:8443 that Docker maps to port 443 in the container.
|
| That turned out to be not too difficult to deal with by using
| Wireguard. Specifically, Wireguard between the Linux VM that
| Docker Mac creates to run containers and the Mac.
|
| If Docker Mac works as well on Apple Silicon I might be able to
| just stick with that and not need either VMWare or Parallels.
| alrlroipsp wrote:
| > I want it to appear at some_ip:443 on my Mac, not on
| something like localhost:8443
|
| You can add hostnames to /etc/hosts if "localhost" bothers
| you.
|
| Then you map ports to host ports using the -p docker
| argument.
|
| Solving this with wireguard sounds like super overkill.
| tzs wrote:
| The typical case is that I'm testing with client code on my
| desktop that expects to talk to some particular server,
| such as db.work.com, on some particular port, say 3306. I
| don't want to run the client in a VM or container.
|
| I want to run a test version of that server on a VM or in a
| container, and have that client connect to it, but I do not
| want to modify the client.
|
| So I want to make an /etc/hosts entry for db.work.com
| giving the IP address of the VM or container that I'm
| running the test server in.
|
| That works great with VMWare Fusion. The VM gets an IP
| address on my Mac, and I use that in the /etc/hosts entry.
|
| That would also work great if I were running Linux instead
| of Mac OS, because Docker containers on Linux get IP
| addresses that are visible. I'd just have to put the
| container IP on the db.work.com /etc/hosts entry.
|
| On Mac Docker runs a Linux VM and then the containers run
| in that. They don't have IP addresses that are visible to
| the Mac. For a lot of things that is fine. With the -p
| argument you can arrange to have a localhost port mapped to
| some port on the container.
|
| But in my case that doesn't quite cut it. The client wants
| to connect to port 3306. I can't just map localhost:3306 to
| the container and put db.work.com in /etc/hosts pointing to
| 127.0.0.1 because I've already got something on 127.0.0.1
| that is using 3306.
|
| Hence Wireguard so that I can have an IP address for the
| container that is visible on the Mac.
| codetrotter wrote:
| > If Docker Mac works as well on Apple Silicon I might be
| able to just stick with that and not need either VMWare or
| Parallels.
|
| MacBook Pro M1 Max user here. Yes, Docker Mac works on Apple
| Silicon.
|
| Make sure to use Docker images built for Arm. M1 Rosetta is
| good, but is not used for Docker images. If you run Docker
| images for x86_64 in Docker Mac on Apple Silicon it's
| noticeably slower. Whereas running docker images built for
| Arm is fast.
| ammanley wrote:
| I might be reading this wrong, but is this something where
| you could launch your containerized app running on whatever
| port, and map it to `localhost:443` using something along the
| lines of `docker run -p 127.0.0.1:443:<whatever port in the
| container> My-App-Image` ? (might need sudo). I read this as
| wanting to have <your IP>:443 proxy to the container. Hope
| I'm not crazy.
| tzs wrote:
| The problem with "-p 127.0.0.1:443:<whatever port in the
| container>" is that there is already something on
| 127.0.0.1:443.
|
| If I were running Docker on Linux this would not be a
| problem. I'd simply use bridged networking in the container
| which would give the container an IP that works for things
| running on the Linux host.
|
| To access something on <whatever port in the container> I'd
| then just use <container IP>:<whatever port in the
| container>.
|
| Docker Mac runs a Linux VM and then runs your containers on
| that Linux VM. Bridged networking there just bridges the
| containers to the Linux VM. The container's IP is not
| visible to the Mac, just to the Linux VM.
|
| So I'm using Wireguard to tunnel between the Linux VM and
| the Mac, so that the container IPs end up visible on the
| Mac.
|
| In case anyone else finds this useful, here are details of
| my setup.
|
| * I've got a Docker network name "Mynet" that I put
| containers on with statically assigned IP addresses (e.g.,
| "--network Mynet --ip 10.11.12.10"). Mynet has gateway
| 10.11.12.1. It was created with this command:
|
| docker network create --driver=bridge --subnet
| 10.11.12.0/24 --ip-range=10.11.12.128/25
| --gateway=10.11.12.1 Mynet
|
| IP address 10.11.12.128-254 are dynamically allocated to
| containers that are run with "---network Mynet" but not
| assigned a static IP. 10.11.12.2-127 can be used for static
| IPs.
|
| * On the Wireguard tunnel, I've given my Mac IP 10.11.0.2
| and the Docker Linux VM IP 10.11.0.3.
|
| * The Mac IP address on my home network is 192.168.0.2.
|
| * I've made a Docker alpine image, which I named alpine-wg,
| that is just the base alpine image with the Wireguard tools
| installed. The Docker Mac Linux VM has Wireguard kernel
| support built in, so you just need an image with the tools
| in order to configure it.
|
| * I've generated key pairs for the Mac and the Linux VM.
|
| * Here is my Wireguard conf file for the Mac (stored on Mac
| as ~/wg/mac/wg.conf). [Interface]
| Address = 10.11.0.2/32 PrivateKey = <Mac private key>
| ListenPort = 51820 # docker VM [Peer]
| AllowedIPs = 10.11.0.3/32, 10.11.12.0/24 PublicKey =
| <Linux VM public key>
|
| * Here is the Wireguard conf file for the Linux VM (stored
| on Mac as ~/wg/linux-vm/base.conf):
| [Interface] Address = 10.11.0.3/32 ListenPort =
| 51820 PrivateKey = <Linux VM private key>
| [Peer] AllowedIPs = 10.11.0.2/32 PublicKey =
| <Mac public key> EndPoint = 192.168.0.2:51820
| PersistentKeepalive = 25
|
| * Commands to run on the Mac: # bring up
| the tunnel sudo wg-quick up /Users/tzs/wg/mac/wg.conf
| # take down the tunnel sudo wg-quick down
| /Users/tzs/wg/mac/wg.conf
|
| * Aliases on the Mac to bring up, take down, and show the
| tunnel on the Linux VM: alias linux-wg-
| up='docker container run -it --rm --privileged --pid=host
| -v ~/wg/linux-vm:/wg alpine-wg nsenter -t 1 -u -n -i wg-
| quick up /wg/base.conf' alias linux-wg-
| down='docker container run -it --rm --privileged --pid=host
| -v ~/wg/linux-vm:/wg alpine-wg nsenter -t 1 -u -n -i wg-
| quick down /wg/base.conf' alias linux-wg-
| show='docker container run -it --rm --privileged --pid=host
| -v ~/wg/linux-vm:/wg alpine-wg nsenter -t 1 -u -n -i wg
| show'
| skydhash wrote:
| I have a similar need for work (k8s instead of docker)
| and I just use the routing table on my router and
| `/etc/hosts` files (need domain names fir certificates)
| works easy.
| ammanley wrote:
| This was a fascinating read, thank you for sharing. TIL!
|
| EDIT: Is your home IP address for your mac static? Seems
| like if it was dynamic, this would need to be updated,
| though I know you can use some simple programs to
| dynamically inquire for the IP, and then just template it
| out into the config files before launching, just in case.
| ianlevesque wrote:
| The graphics support in particular sounds like a total mess:
|
| > For Graphics, Fusion 13 sports OpenGL 4.3 in Windows and
| Linux VMs on Intel, and in Linux VMs on Apple Silicon.
|
| > On Intel, Windows continues to enjoy DirectX 11 graphics, and
| Fusion continues to support eGPU devices for incredible
| performance using some of the fastest GPU's available.
|
| > On Apple Silicon, Fusion can deliver OpenGL 4.3 with blazing
| fast 3D hardware acceleration to arm-based Linux virtual
| machines with Linux kernel 5.19 or greater.
|
| So if I am reading this correctly, Windows on Apple Silicon
| doesn't have accelerated 3D at all? And even on Intel they are
| 10 full years behind with no support for DirectX 12.
|
| I guess this is what happens six years after firing the entire
| team, once you can no longer coast on past innovations.
| https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/01/vmwar...
| Raymonf wrote:
| Other than Hyper-V, what hypervisor can paravirtualize
| DirectX 12?
| yug wrote:
| Installed it on my Intel MBP, upgraded my virtual machines to a
| new format version and now regretting it. The Bootcamp VM does
| not boot at all and the Win 7 VM is in an infinite restart-repair
| loop.
|
| Thank God I have backups to revert to.
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| Many steps ?
|
| recovery, reset on csr then reboot delete old boot camp very
| small link (<100mb) and do a new boot camp vm and go back to
| recovery and enable csr Reboot
|
| But is to true for other vm?
| yug wrote:
| No, not many steps. Just restoring Fusion 12 and
| Win7.vmwarevm from Time Machine and recreating a bootcamp vm.
| Easy
|
| I'm a VMWare Fusion user since ver.6, I think, and I've never
| experienced anything like this :( Shocking
| a-b wrote:
| Apple has quite strict virtualization constraints in its user
| agreement. I'm wondering if this is going to change any time
| soon.
| [deleted]
| lostlogin wrote:
| This always comes up, but what does it actually prevent? Has
| Apple ever enforced it? It would seem likely that doing so
| would be hitting their power users.
| Aaron2222 wrote:
| They enforce it in their Virtualization framework:
| https://eclecticlight.co/2022/08/04/virtualisation-on-
| apple-...
| lostlogin wrote:
| And they specify it must be on Apple hardware.
|
| They don't enforce that though I don't think, but I wonder
| if anyone has been caught or sued?
| sys_64738 wrote:
| It sounds like a GUI around the Apple HV FW.
| pitterpatter wrote:
| The hypervisor framework doesn't provide a lot of extra things
| which are implemented by whatever VMM you're using. Qemu can
| also use Hypervisor.framework but you certainly wouldn't say
| it's exactly 1-1 w/ VMware Fusion.
| sdze wrote:
| Does VMWare Fusion 12 run on macOS Ventura? (Not a apple m
| question)
| nwpierce wrote:
| rdl wrote:
| I switched to Parallels due to VMware's lack of Apple Silicon
| support; it's been a great experience for Windows 11 (and does a
| great job of bundling the Windows 11 ARM installer, etc.)
|
| Crossover works surprisingly well for games, too.
| kasajian wrote:
| It's impossible read an article on macrumors.com. Every 30
| seconds, the page jumps because of an ad. I don't think Web is
| meant to do that.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| Get yourself a good ad-blocker, I can't even surf the web
| without one.
| [deleted]
| illiac786 wrote:
| Still not drag&drop and no shared folder?? Seriously? For $150!?
| acdanger wrote:
| Any news on Bootcamp for Silicon?
| dwaite wrote:
| It is highly unlikely - the boot process isn't standardized,
| nor will there be manufacturer-provided drivers for a good
| portion of the Apple SoC features.
| wmf wrote:
| There was this but it's 404'ed
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31657591
| jasoneckert wrote:
| The UTM experience (https://mac.getutm.app/) has been stellar for
| me. Knowing that others have commented on this being a rough
| initial release, I really have no reason to try it out.
|
| And while UTM was relatively unknown a year ago, it's become
| quite popular in my circle of Apple Silicon users, so I imagine
| VMWare's reception on Apple Silicon is going to be lukewarm at
| best.
| EVADKN wrote:
| never managed to run win11 so I gave up
| jedisct1 wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9opNMFY497o
|
| Windows 11 runs beautifully on UTM.
| mgiampapa wrote:
| UTM's lack of any accelerated graphics makes a non-starter for
| most desktop applications these days. It's fine as a frontend
| to QEMU, but that's all it is. Fusion and Parallels will
| continue to dominate this space on MacOS.
| maxmouchet wrote:
| They do but it's experimental and only for Linux guests:
| https://github.com/utmapp/UTM/releases/tag/v2.2.4
| bogantech wrote:
| Fingers crossed that it eventually works but for me it
| invariably results in a crash or graphical corruption
| making my VM unusable regardless of the distro (have tried
| Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian etc)
| irusensei wrote:
| Unironically the best experience for Linux in my case is no
| graphics adapter but instead a serial console. You can copy
| and paste text from the vm console window without any
| additions!
| dtgriscom wrote:
| Why is accelerated graphics mandatory? I'd think most non-
| gaming, non-graphics-heavy apps would do fine with the CPU.
| skydhash wrote:
| Most desktop nowadays have a compositor that rely on the
| gpu to render nice effects like blur, transparency,
| animations (including keeping the content of the window
| while dragging).
| neurostimulant wrote:
| Electron apps (and other apps that uses Chromium Embedded
| Framework) are commonplace these days and they requires GPU
| acceleration. They'll crash if launched on system without
| gpu acceleration. Sure you can pass a command line argument
| to disable gpu acceleration to those apps (e.g. `--disable-
| gpu` on most electron apps and `--no-zygote` on apps that
| use chrome embedded framework like spotify), but you can't
| expect average users to know how to do that.
| Rimintil wrote:
| With Fusion 13, I see no way of creating a macOS guest VM. It
| isn't in the VM options list. UTM will automagically connect
| to Apple's servers and download the latest version.
|
| Problem with UTM is there is no copy/paste or file transfer
| between a macOS host and guest which is a huge barrier. I'm
| spoiled by Hyper-V enhanced sessions, I suppose.
| mrpippy wrote:
| Fusion only supports MacOS VMs on Intel, are you on Apple
| Silicon?
| mk_stjames wrote:
| I just got Windows 7 running on an M1 Macbook Pro with UTM
| today actually. It took a bit of configuring but I am getting
| pretty amazing performance considering it's having to do a full
| ISA emulation (not using Rosetta.. QEMU can use Rosetta to
| translate for Linux ELF's in Linux VM's but it doesn't seem
| like it can do so under an x86 Windows VM). I have one legacy
| Windows application that I need sometimes randomly when
| traveling and this is amazing that it runs as well as it does-
| it is a program using OpenGL and the performance is useable for
| basic tasks and I am just using a the default VGA card
| emulation, I haven't even setup any advanced GPU card emulation
| yet. I'm blown away.
| zamadatix wrote:
| If you Crossover works for your app you can pipe x86 32 but
| apps through Rosetta 2 and Crossover will bridge the GPU
| stuff to an actual GPU. This is a lifesaver for me on 1
| ancient app I have to use for work.
| rattray wrote:
| Can it be used with docker for Mac, or some competitor?
| speedgoose wrote:
| You probably would prefer colima to get an easy VM for
| docker/kubernetes using qemu in the background.
| rattray wrote:
| Nice, thank you! This does look promising.
|
| https://www.arthurkoziel.com/replacing-docker-desktop-for-
| ma...
|
| According to this article, file sharing between the
| container and the host is about 80% faster in Colima than
| Docker Desktop for Mac, but still much slower than native:
| # Docker Desktop for Mac IOPS: 1545
| Bandwidth: 6.3MB/s # Colima IOPS: 2786
| Bandwidth: 11.4MB/s # Native IOPS:
| 28.6k Bandwidth: 117MB/s
|
| Colima doesn't have all the annoying popups, telemetry, and
| other commercial aspects that turn off many developers from
| Docker Desktop for Mac. It sounds like a drop-in
| replacement otherwise. Terrific!
|
| I'll still try to keep as much development native as
| possible for now, but if it ever gets to be a real pain
| I'll give Colima a try before mixing docker entirely.
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