[HN Gopher] The surprising afterlife of unwanted atom bombs
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The surprising afterlife of unwanted atom bombs
        
       Author : happyopossum
       Score  : 22 points
       Date   : 2022-11-18 19:27 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | aidenn0 wrote:
       | The US has been moving away from high-yield bombs for a while;
       | here's the highest yield bombs in the US arsenal and the dates of
       | their retirement:
       | 
       | B41: 25MT, retired in 1976
       | 
       | B53: 9MT retired in 2011
       | 
       | B83: 1.2MT retired 2022
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | in the world of nuclear weapons i didn't think 1.2MT was that
         | particularly high of a yield. Wikipedia leads me to believe
         | that the majority of nuclear weapons deployed in the US are in
         | the 100-500KT range. Given that yields are shrinking (i assume
         | globally as well) I wonder how that impacts fallout prediction
         | maps that probably haven't been updated in a long time. Also,
         | assuming the number of warheads is staying constant or going
         | down then the total energy on tap is going down too. I guess
         | increases in stealth, detection, and accuracy make up for the
         | decrease in power when it comes to a nuclear deterrent.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_yield
        
       | harimau777 wrote:
       | When I studied nuclear weapons history in college, the professor
       | mentioned that an important purpose of decommissioning nuclear
       | devices was to provide jobs for the engineers that built them so
       | that they aren't financially tempted to build them for an enemy.
        
       | j-krieger wrote:
       | Contrary to a lot of people I know, I think nuclear weapons are
       | largely a good thing and _the_ reason we've had peace in Europe
       | for 80 years. I will stand by my claim that Ukraine wouldn't be
       | in their situation if they had not willingly disarmed themselves.
       | 
       | Of course I wish that we wouldn't need nuclear warheads capable
       | of total annihilation to keep peace, but I'm afraid that's just
       | unrealistic.
        
         | fredgrott wrote:
         | You remember wrong, it was Not Ukraine that disarmed.
         | 
         | It was Russia removing their control of Nukes under their
         | control in Ukraine.
         | 
         | Somewhat a big difference.
        
         | gregwebs wrote:
         | The idea that Ukraine could have defended themselves with nukes
         | comes from not understanding what was going on when the USSR
         | fell apart. The nukes were placed in Ukraine by Russia since
         | Ukraine was a border region of the USSR. Ukraine did not have
         | control of the nukes. Russia probably would have attacked them
         | early on and destroyed the nukes or taken over the country
         | before they could ever weaponize them and find the billions of
         | dollars needed to maintain a nuclear fleet while they were
         | suffering hyperinflation.
         | 
         | https://nucleardiner.wordpress.com/2022/02/06/could-ukraine-...
         | 
         | https://www.icanw.org/did_ukraine_give_up_nuclear_weapons
         | 
         | https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00396338.2015.1...
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/dLR60
        
       | johnea wrote:
       | Why is this surprising to anyone?
       | 
       | Did someone think the plutonium was going to disappear?
       | 
       | This is why ALL nuclear power is a disaster. Even after this
       | material is used to boil water for a few years, it's still highly
       | radioactive for millennia.
        
         | kyleyeats wrote:
         | Can we ban smug feigned incredulity posts already?
        
           | i386 wrote:
           | You know how to log off right?
        
         | fuoqi wrote:
         | Footprint of spent nuclear fuel is laughably small when
         | compared to other industrial processes and it can be reduced
         | even further by using fast-neutron "burner" reactors. Why do
         | you complain about nuclear and not about "immortal" heavy
         | metals, which have several orders of magnitude bigger impact on
         | ecology and human health?
        
         | pinewurst wrote:
         | That's why we should be using reprocessed MOX fuel not once
         | through and bury.
        
           | philipkglass wrote:
           | That was originally the plan for surplus weapons plutonium.
           | In 2007 the United States started building a MOX facility at
           | Savannah River for turning the old weapons plutonium into
           | power reactor fuel. Its cost and time to completion ballooned
           | far beyond original estimates and it was ultimately canceled.
           | 
           | "Cost estimate for MOX facility at Savannah River Site swells
           | to $47.5 billion"
           | 
           | https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/2015/04/22/cost-.
           | ..
           | 
           | "US MOX facility contract terminated"
           | 
           | https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/US-MOX-facility-
           | cont...
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_River_Site#MOX_Fuel_F.
           | ..
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | Exactly. The plutonium in nuclear waste _is not waste_ , it's
           | a fuel at least as valuable as 235U. Reprocessing not only
           | reuses the Pu, with fast reactors it can be used to convert
           | almost all 238U to 239Pu which is a valuable fuel. This
           | allows us to get 60x more energy out of natural uranium -- we
           | can stop enriching uranium and fuel our civilization for
           | hundreds of years based on the "waste" that is already above.
           | 
           | The waste that remains after reprocessing in a fast cycle are
           | fission products that will decay so much in 1000 years that
           | the waste is less radioactive than the original uranium ore.
        
             | Schroedingersat wrote:
             | What's the concentration of Pu in the output of a modern
             | high burnup reactor? What is the ratio of that to the
             | concentration of fissile products needed for fuel?
             | 
             | Cs137 and Sr90 lasting 'mere' centuries isn't helping your
             | case any. Especially when existing MOX programs spill more
             | than Fukushima and TMI combined as standard operating
             | procedure.
        
         | ProAm wrote:
         | > it's still highly radioactive for millennia
         | 
         | So it space and were actively trying to send people up there to
         | live and colonize.
        
         | canadianfella wrote:
        
         | shamskazi wrote:
         | Do we have a better alternative than nuclear power right now?
        
           | badrabbit wrote:
           | What is better? Hydrogen and Hydroelectric might be cheaper
           | in the short term, nuke plants are very expensive. Most
           | countries can't get nuke plants either even if they can
           | afford them, you can't sell it to them like you can with
           | hydrogen.
        
           | Schroedingersat wrote:
           | Yes. Renewables with no storage can cover 30-50% of world
           | energy (not just electricity). Nuclear tops out at around 5%
           | if we go all in now at around the same total cost. Storage
           | technologies exist for the rest at about the cost of nuclear
           | (but with actual ability to scale), but are not necessary en
           | masse yet and are likely to drop in price by the time they
           | are.
        
         | simondotau wrote:
         | > _highly radioactive for millennia_
         | 
         | Something can be highly radioactive for a short time,
         | moderately radioactive for a long time, or slightly radioactive
         | for a very long time.
         | 
         | If something is "radioactive for millenia" then it's probably
         | so mild that you could store in your underpants without I'll
         | effects.
        
           | Schroedingersat wrote:
           | https://www.world-
           | nuclear.org/getmedia/cdcb8173-3843-4e4a-9d...
           | 
           | Have a little snack consisting of 1 gram of americium and 7
           | grams of neptunium 237, or store an equivalently active gamma
           | emitter in your underpants.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-11-18 23:00 UTC)