[HN Gopher] Show HN: Posterity Automations - Get things done fro...
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       Show HN: Posterity Automations - Get things done from the afterlife
        
       Hey there HN - I'm Mohamed, CEO here at Posterity.  I've seen a lot
       of threads lately discussing how stuff can be transferred safely to
       significant others and spouses. A key aspect of that transfer is
       often timing, and the ability to only disclose information if and
       when necessary.  This is basically what Automations are about; web-
       hooks triggered in the event something happens, and which can serve
       as a reliable signal because we verify every death manually.
       Today, it's available via IFTTT (https://ifttt.com/posterity), and
       we'll be launching standard HTTP web-hooks very soon as a follow
       up.  Hope you find this useful.
        
       Author : mohamedattahri
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2022-11-18 15:07 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (posterity.life)
 (TXT) w3m dump (posterity.life)
        
       | dxuh wrote:
       | Excuse the harsh question, but how many people using this have
       | actually died yet? As far as we know, you could just collect
       | money and never trigger anything. It's also very hard to collect
       | reviews for this service. I love the idea and I would like to
       | have it, but I find it a hard sell to actually rely on it.
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | Very legitimate on the contrary. Luckily enough, none.
         | 
         | You can see how incentivized we are to really go above and
         | beyond if something happens to one of our users; the loved ones
         | we help are our best advocates.
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | "Never trigger anything" is actually not the worst outcome,
         | compared to prematurely releasing your secrets, accidentally or
         | intentionally.
        
       | crtasm wrote:
       | Manual action needed to begin the process
       | 
       | > We rely on a user's circle of trusted contacts to let us know
       | if something happened to them. It can be anyone they invited or
       | nominated for a role on their account.
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | Absolutely, and by design. The only automated trigger we're
         | seriously considering is the social security master death
         | records; if your SSN is there, means you passed away.
        
           | discretion22 wrote:
           | Are you really sure about that?
           | 
           | https://faq.ssa.gov/en-US/Topic/article/KA-02917
        
             | mohamedattahri wrote:
             | SSN theft is a real thing, but as far as automation goes,
             | it's probably the safest in our opinion, and we'll
             | obviously keep it optional.
             | 
             | We think the most reliable way is your loved ones signaling
             | it, so they can access your plan and all the stuff you
             | wanted them to know.
        
       | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
       | Love the idea ( played with similar concept, but could not push
       | it past the design stage ) and the approach ( manual verification
       | as opposed to say.. automatic email check ). I think you did the
       | right way. Good luck!
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | Thanks!
        
       | Edd314159 wrote:
       | I'm fascinated by the pricing implication here. The older you
       | are, and the more imminent your need for it, the cheaper it is!
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | Not really; it would be the same as saying that leasing a car
         | is cheaper if nearer to death than not.
         | 
         | We're not a life insurance that you have to contribute to in
         | exchange for a payout. We're a service that watches over you
         | for one year to make sure your plan is revealed and shared with
         | your loved ones.
        
       | hirundo wrote:
       | I would like to pass along my master password and safe
       | combination, but those would allow an attacker to help themselves
       | to most of my estate. Is there a way to do that with your service
       | that you feel includes sufficient security?
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | Check out https://posterity.life/planning/crypto-vault/
         | 
         | It's E2E encrypted, and can only be opened by whoever you made
         | a recovery key for after your death.
        
       | jeffbarr wrote:
       | Talk about testing in production. You have to die first to see if
       | this triggers, and if not -- your automation becomes the ultimate
       | in legacy code.
       | 
       | Seriously, this is a very interesting idea. However, after losing
       | both of my parents in the last 4 years, there's a sad but
       | legitimate intermediate state between alive & well, and deceased.
       | People lose their ability to function and make decisions on their
       | own, might not be able to renew your service.
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | I'm sorry for your loss.
         | 
         | Your raise a very good point. Two things.
         | 
         | (1) Incapacitation is something on our radar, and we really
         | care about getting it right;
         | 
         | (2) We put a lot of effort into making sharing and keeping
         | people up to date as simple as possible, so they can reach out
         | to us if there's a problem.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | taubek wrote:
       | This is for USA only?
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | For the time being yes. It's the only place where we know how
         | to reliably verify someone's death.
         | 
         | What other country are you interested in?
        
           | nivenkos wrote:
           | The UK has a public register so should be easy if you want to
           | expand.
           | 
           | Sweden too IIRC - and there the population register is public
           | too so you can even confirm with the identity number.
        
           | soco wrote:
           | In Germany the registrar of the birth place (or last address
           | if born outside Germany) will be notified in case of death
           | and can be asked. Your client would register his address,
           | birth date and birth place with you anyway.
        
           | DeathArrow wrote:
           | >It's the only place where we know how to reliably verify
           | someone's death.
           | 
           | No need to verify. You can modify the software to trigger if
           | it doesn't receive periodic signals from someone.
        
             | DJBunnies wrote:
             | That is quite the opposite of verification/its intent.
        
               | mohamedattahri wrote:
               | Yeah, dead-man switches are risky when there's a lot at
               | stake and you forget your password.
               | 
               | An alternative we're considering is the death files
               | published by the SSA if you provide us with your SSN.
        
       | reddevil7 wrote:
       | Much needed service! Keep us posted please!
        
       | replwoacause wrote:
       | The "bring your own code" part is interesting, but what happens
       | if there is a mistake in my code that causes one or more of my
       | automations to fail to run? How do you ensure that user created
       | code is in a functional state so that the purpose of the service
       | is fully executed? If my code breaks and I'm dead, then some
       | potentially very important (to me) stuff doesn't happen?
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | It's not different from a smart contract. Testing, low is the
         | only remedy, and that can be simplified with a great toolkit,
         | which we'll be offering.
        
       | RomanPushkin wrote:
       | I'd pay for the service that would post to my
       | Facebook/Vkontakte/Telegram accounts afterlife.
       | 
       | IFTTT is not very reliable IMO, since you can't control the tech
       | once you dead. But if you have a script that human needs to
       | follow whatever what, then it can convince me.
       | 
       | Moreover, if the service periodically reminds me to write
       | something to be posted later, it would probably work very well.
       | 
       | In other words, my digital life is not around IFTTT, until IFTTT
       | can guarantee on their side that everything is going to work as
       | expected
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | We started with IFTTT to tap into their ecosystem, but webhooks
         | with your own code is probably what you're looking for.
        
       | visviva wrote:
       | This is probably a product of my current mindset, but I find the
       | tagline "Get things done from the afterlife" hilariously grim -
       | not only should I be obsessed with "getting things done" while
       | I'm alive, but now I need to be productive after I die!
       | 
       | edit: I should add that I actually like this idea, and I'll check
       | it out further.
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | Hilarious and grim are two words I never imagined side by side,
         | so just for this, I think it was worth it :)
         | 
         | Jokes aside, it speaks to the need that many of our users have
         | with regards to having agency in case of death, as opposed to
         | productivity.
         | 
         | Glad it caught your interest. Hope you give it a try.
        
           | rundmc wrote:
           | Mohammed,
           | 
           | Connect with me on LinkedIN.
           | 
           | We could be interested to include a posterity subscription
           | for clients when we launch the US version of
           | https://tontine.com in the coming months.
           | 
           | Cheers
           | 
           | Dean
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | WesleyJohnson wrote:
       | I worked with an Estate Attorney on a similar product that was
       | geared towards shutting down other online services. We started
       | down the path of trying to figure out which services would let
       | loved ones assume ownership vs which would only let you
       | deactivate the account and there were a lot of headaches along
       | the way.
       | 
       | The service eventually launched, but it never got much
       | transaction. I believe the Attorney tried to get investors at one
       | point to fund marketing and advertising and everyone felt like it
       | was a good idea, but was worried about adoption. The funding
       | never came and the service was shuttered.
       | 
       | I still think it's a good idea if executed properly. Will have to
       | give this a look.
        
       | ROTMetro wrote:
       | My mom was a hippie, and she always promised me that after she
       | died she'd figure out a way to tell me what it's like. I was in
       | prison when she passed. Leading up to that first holidays after
       | she passed sucked. Thanksgiving, horrible. Four months after her
       | death, and approaching Xmas, I get a package at mail call. WTF?
       | All of my family/friends had fallen off, so by that point it was
       | only my mom who had still sent me letters. I open it, and it was
       | a book on 'what the afterlife might look like'. She had figured
       | out how to keep her word, and let me know what it was like after
       | her passing. I don't know how it got shipped it came as an Amazon
       | gift but with no identifying info. Her last 6 months she wasn't
       | in a state to arrange anything, so she would have had to plan
       | this like 10 months earlier. But having this gift, that was also
       | an inside running kind of joke between us, oh man, that was so
       | friggen awesome.
       | 
       | I'm not doing great myself, and my boy just won't take it serious
       | so we can communicate stuff so this will be super helpful. I have
       | probably thousands of dollars just in re-sellable music software
       | licenses that I need a way to communicate to him, and I can't
       | even get him to bookmark a shared Google doc (funny how
       | relationships go when you completely and utterly fail people and
       | betray them by going to prison).
        
         | doctorhandshake wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing this.
        
       | calicocoa wrote:
       | This is really interesting. The site is very beautiful! I'm
       | curious: let's say I'm 30 years old. How can I be sure that
       | 'posterity.life' will be around if I live a full and long life. A
       | _lot_ can change in fifty years.
       | 
       | This seems like an obvious concern and I don't see it covered in
       | your FAQ. This is not hypothetical. There are many similar (not
       | identical) services that are no more. See SafeBeyond for one such
       | example.
       | 
       | What do you say to folks who wonder about whether their lives
       | will be longer than that of this site?
        
         | ankaAr wrote:
         | They can ghost you
        
         | soco wrote:
         | I see a market opening: a service to track and manage the
         | afterlife of afterlife services.
        
           | donclark wrote:
           | Seeing this makes me also think... why not offer a service
           | that will lock down all finance, identity and other related
           | services upon the event of a perceived attack? Sure, it would
           | be worthless if it was too sensitive. I key feature would be
           | that it could be unlocked in 5mins or less by an account
           | holder.
        
           | yborg wrote:
           | This. Unless you are a mayfly, you are highly likely to
           | outlive any new business. Simpler approach is to have an
           | executor have a way to access a password manager to be able
           | to identify and close out online services.
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | This is a good question.
         | 
         | The way to think about us is more like a home insurance. When
         | you purchase a policy, your home is covered if something
         | happens to it for one year. When it expires, you can renew it
         | again. If the insurance goes out of business, you can choose
         | another carrier or find another alternative.
         | 
         | It's not so different with us. You purchase a subscription, and
         | it covers you for one year if you pass away during that time,
         | and you can renew it afterwards.
         | 
         | The services we offer never extend more than 6 months after
         | one's passing, so you don't have to really be worried about us
         | being in business for more than 18 months after you become a
         | user, which is really not excessive and in the ballpark of most
         | other services you use.
         | 
         | Edit -- Typo.
        
           | edmundsauto wrote:
           | I've been thinking about this topic after I got married, and
           | realized that I wanted to back up my wedding photos for 100+
           | years so my great-great-grandkids have the originals.
           | 
           | I wonder if this is a good use of blockchain technology. The
           | company sets things up in such a way where there are
           | resources and mechanisms to keep things running after the
           | company collapses. Theoretically, as long as the s3 bills are
           | paid, things keep running - the money pool pays for that,
           | getting annual refreshes from data owners. Then money also
           | exists for maintenance - s3 will shut down some day, but with
           | money in escrow, developers can create proposals for
           | maintenance that the token owners vote on.
           | 
           | Just a lot of hand waving away problems on my part, but I
           | think it's an interesting question: how do people store data
           | for 100+ years?
        
             | imhoguy wrote:
             | > how do people store data for 100+ years?
             | 
             | Print it.
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | On acid-free paper.
        
               | edmundsauto wrote:
               | I disagree - digital is the only route. Printouts will
               | get lost, bent, fires, floods, and lost.
               | 
               | The broader idea that I find interesting however is how
               | to preserve digital content for > 100 years. It's okay if
               | other people don't care about that - I do, and I think
               | it's an interesting set of problem constraints, and was
               | just wondering if anyone else has thought about it.
               | 
               | It's difficult to suggest an actual use case for
               | blockchain, and I am far from an expert, but I think this
               | could be an interesting innovative options for actually
               | using distributed databases to control assets and make
               | collective decisions in a decentralized fashion.
        
               | courgette wrote:
               | In a decent box.
        
               | aaronbrethorst wrote:
               | With archival quality pigment inks
               | 
               | https://keithdotson.com/blogs/news/how-long-will-your-
               | photog...
        
               | vermilingua wrote:
               | Do you have any insight on whether NeverTear would be
               | good media for long-term archival? Waterproof and damage
               | resistant is a big plus, but I wonder if they come at the
               | cost of pigmant durability.
        
               | ROTMetro wrote:
               | Don't do this. I somehow ended up with all the pictures
               | of family going back to the 1800s. I have 5 suitcases
               | full that I now have to scan.
               | 
               | Find the best representative photos, and upload them to
               | Geni.com, Ancestry.com, MyHerritage.com, 23andme, etc.
               | They are bound to survive from one of those sources.
        
               | vasco wrote:
               | Why don't you just pass on 6 suitcases instead of adding
               | the risk of losing digital media. The current process has
               | worked for your family for 200 years.
        
               | NateEag wrote:
               | That's why you pick the best five from each year and
               | print them in a small acid-free paper book.
               | 
               | You keep the gigantic digital repository as long as
               | feasible (I burn to M-Discs), but for accessibility and
               | long-term, pick your favorites in a way we have good
               | reason to think can last for hundreds of years.
        
               | soperj wrote:
               | > print them in a small acid-free paper book
               | 
               | any good recommendations for printers?
        
               | NateEag wrote:
               | Shutterfly's interface is (was? been a while) kind of
               | painful, but we've gotten good results from them.
               | 
               | Chatbooks makes it fairly brainlessly easy to produce
               | books regularly (and had a hilarious ad a few years back
               | focusing on the ease of use compared to other options:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF2eKaOc3wo).
               | 
               | I can't swear to the longevity of the books - I never dug
               | into the details of how they're printed, because I'm not
               | especially concerned about making sure they last a
               | hundred years.
               | 
               | It's the right strategy in principle, though, if that is
               | your goal.
        
         | sebhook wrote:
         | I wonder if the whole site could be put in a trust with legal
         | stipulations to maintain hosting funds. The trustees would be
         | the management teams, then potentially a corporate trustee who
         | could keep the lights on in the event of a permanent code
         | freeze.
         | 
         | I think partnering with a forward thinking legal firm that
         | specializes in estate planning would be a cool avenue to
         | explore that further.
        
           | ghufran_syed wrote:
           | or maybe structure the organization as two parts, an
           | independent trust that acts as a custodian with set aside
           | assets to cover the running costs over the expected lifetime
           | of the covered population , and a technology company that
           | builds markets and operates the service on behalf of the
           | trust (or trusts)?
           | 
           | kind of like how a regulated brokerage, pension fund or
           | insurance company operates. The difficult part is credibly
           | ensuring that the companies will follow the rules when there
           | is no legal big stick hanging over them. Maybe you could have
           | the company buy and issue performance bonds to the policy
           | holders , so if the company disappears, the policy holder or
           | their family gets a lump sum? And have the (independent)
           | company issuing the bonds have the contractual right to
           | display the current pricing of the performance bonds, so if
           | the bond company starts to suspects mismanagement, the price
           | goes up, and that has an immediate effect on the company's
           | standing (and is therefore likely to deter bad behavior)
        
             | irq-1 wrote:
             | The oldest organizations are churches and universities.
             | Seems like they should be involved managing something like
             | this.
        
       | rundmc wrote:
       | You are using a dead mans switch or another method to confirm
       | death?
        
         | joshperrin wrote:
         | Death is manually verified, you can read about the process
         | here:
         | 
         | https://posterity.life/how/death-verification/
        
       | ibdf wrote:
       | Is this a one time trigger, or can you, for instance,
       | periodically continue to annoy some folks by sending them a
       | message or a photo? If, periodically, how does billing work then?
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | The trigger is a one-time event, and you can use it to start
         | some other process than does things periodically.
         | 
         | Billing stops if you pass away.
        
       | UniverseHacker wrote:
       | > Free 15-day trial, then $29.99/year
       | 
       | Time to start taking those big risks I always wanted to take.
       | There are some real savings here if I manage to die in the next
       | two weeks, plus I can still keep getting things done!
       | 
       | Will I need to keep paying to keep getting things done after I
       | die? Can posterity automate that too? How can I cancel my service
       | after death if it fails to deliver, or say, I, as a ghost become
       | dissatisfied with it?
        
         | agilob wrote:
         | >How can I cancel my service after death if it fails to
         | deliver, or say, I, as a ghost become dissatisfied with it?
         | 
         | I guess it should cancel subscription after a successful
         | trigger? A self-killing business?
        
           | mohamedattahri wrote:
           | You don't have to worry about that, we're we'll positioned to
           | know if that happens, and the account is automatically
           | memorialized with read only access to those you shared things
           | with.
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | I couldn't help dark-laughing at "if dead, then that"
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | An answer I didn't see in the FAQ: why should someone rely on a
       | tech startup to exist and function correctly after their death,
       | for something important, usually decades later?
        
         | mohamedattahri wrote:
         | I tried to answer a similar question above.
         | 
         | Death may happen at anytime, and we provide coverage one year
         | at a time. If we go out of business before, you have the time
         | to make other arrangements.
         | 
         | PS: Will definitely add to the FAQ.
        
       | omoikane wrote:
       | Some services already have similar features that triggers on
       | inactivity or death:
       | 
       | https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3036546?hl=en
       | 
       | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212360
       | 
       | https://www.facebook.com/help/103897939701143
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | idlewords wrote:
       | This kind of product/service is launched every few years, but
       | unless users hurry they find they typically outlive them. It
       | would be very interesting to see a post-mortem of the various
       | "schedule stuff to happen after you die" projects, at least one
       | of which I believe was YC funded.
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | most of those I've seen have been shut down your other services
         | after you die, which is really a subset of schedule things
         | after you die.
        
           | idlewords wrote:
           | The ones I'm thinking of were variations on "send these
           | emails after my death is somehow confirmed"
        
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