[HN Gopher] What Happened at FTX?
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       What Happened at FTX?
        
       Author : robin_reala
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2022-11-17 19:54 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lcamtuf.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lcamtuf.substack.com)
        
       | basseq wrote:
       | It is far too early to publish these kinds of articles. It will
       | take months if not years to untangle "what happened" and do a
       | true retrospective. This is little more than a poor summary of
       | "what we know so far".
        
       | notch656a wrote:
       | These same scams have existed for hundreds/thousands of years.
       | What really happened is baseline greedy-as-hell VCs became
       | desperate and drunk to keep up with inflation (and take advantage
       | of "free" money) when the fed pegged interest rates way down into
       | the (real) far-negatives. It made the story of SBF et al even
       | more likely.
       | 
       | People sought riskier and riskier investments and did less and
       | less vetting. The real estate situation where you had to waive
       | all inspections and put up massive earnest cash up front was just
       | an analogy for what was going on everywhere. Just to keep up with
       | inflation you basically had to put yourself out there and pray,
       | and people who otherwise would end up as little more than punks
       | at Jane Street sniffed the blood in the ocean.
       | 
       | While SBF is the primary culprit here, the fed's short-sighted
       | policies created incalculable damage to our economic landscape
       | and advantages for scammers. I fear we will disproportionately be
       | seeing more unwinding of these kind of schemes.
        
         | kebman wrote:
         | This is true. For more on the topic, look up the seigniorage of
         | the antiquity, and not least the ... self issued ... gold
         | certificates of Stockholms Banco of 1661, boasting the first
         | printing of bank notes used in Europe. It didn't go so well...
        
         | snoot wrote:
        
       | gennarro wrote:
       | Nothing new in this article. Just endless fascination I suppose.
        
       | bcrl wrote:
       | As the number of crypto exchanges that have imploded
       | spectacularly keeps rising, I'm starting to think that crypto
       | exchanges can't be run profitably. From Quadriga to FTX now, I
       | have friends that were burned 5+ years ago, and yet the same
       | story seems to keep repeating itself. There's a term for people
       | that keep trying the same thing over and over while expecting
       | different results... Unless these are all completely isolated
       | cases of fraud?
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >I'm starting to think that crypto exchanges can't be run
         | profitably.
         | 
         | Coinbase and Kraken would beg to differ. They have been
         | operating since 2011 and 2012 respectively.
         | 
         | >As the number of crypto exchanges that have imploded
         | spectacularly keeps rising
         | 
         | Given that the number can only go up (exchanges can't un-
         | implode), this statement seems like a truism. You could say the
         | same about VC backed companies, for instance.
        
           | polygamous_bat wrote:
           | > >I'm starting to think that crypto exchanges can't be run
           | profitably.
           | 
           | > Coinbase and Kraken would beg to differ. They have been
           | operating since 2011 and 2012 respectively.
           | 
           | Kraken isn't public, and we don't know their inner balance
           | sheet. However, Coinbase seems to have lost more than a
           | billion dollars in the four quarters [0]. Definitely not how
           | I define "running profitably."
           | 
           | [0] https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/COIN/financials
        
         | janef0421 wrote:
         | I think an actual exchange, that holds all assets and charges
         | brokerage fees, likely can run profitably. The issue, it seems,
         | is that there are a lot of companies that call themselves
         | "brokerages" for legal reasons, but which actually operate as
         | banks, holding only a fraction of user and making profit from
         | lending and investing the rest. Since crypto isn't actively
         | subject to the same regulations as other parts of the financial
         | system, this leads to a lot of fraudulent operators and a lack
         | of consumer protections, even for customers of non-fraudulent
         | companies.
        
       | vt85 wrote:
        
       | downvotetruth wrote:
       | FTX: "'**** the regs' they make everything worse"
       | 
       | FTX employees submitted payment requests through an online chat
       | platform where a disparate group of supervisors approved
       | disbursements by responding with personalized emojis. Other
       | practices included the use of an unsecured group email account as
       | the root user to access confidential private keys and critically
       | sensitive data for the FTX Group companies around the world, the
       | use of software to conceal the misuse of customer funds; the
       | secret exemption of Alameda from certain aspects of FTX.com's
       | auto-liquidation protocol. Also, the audit firm for the Dotcom
       | Silo was Prager Metis, a firm whose website indicates that they
       | are the "first-ever CPA firm to officially open its Metaverse
       | headquarters in the metaverse platform Decentraland".
        
         | aliqot wrote:
         | Just link the tweet thread that you're summarizing.
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/GRDecter/status/1593272102047580161
        
           | downvotetruth wrote:
           | The paragraph highlights excerpts not in the direct link from
           | the court filing:
           | https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/FTXFILING.pdf
        
       | chitowneats wrote:
       | > In short, the collapse of FTX had little to do with
       | cryptocurrencies
       | 
       | How far does the price of BTC have to drop before we dispense
       | with this charade?
        
         | kebman wrote:
         | In the end it would seem that SBF and his gang wasn't so
         | interested in crypto as he was in fiat currency and real
         | estate. As for the ramifications for the crypto scene, the
         | trust of cryptocurrencies has gone right into the cellar now,
         | if not in Bitcoin itself, then certainly in the centralized
         | actors now purporting to offer it to retail customers. In turn,
         | that would of course also warrant a rebate. Not least because
         | it puts pressure on other bad actors on the scene.
        
       | freitasm wrote:
       | Scam and robbery. But that's the kind of "thought leaders" some
       | of these "crypto investments" attract. We already know that.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-17 23:02 UTC)