[HN Gopher] Cisco Reportedly Lays Off over 4k
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       Cisco Reportedly Lays Off over 4k
        
       Author : jrwan
       Score  : 100 points
       Date   : 2022-11-17 15:03 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.forbes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.forbes.com)
        
       | autotune wrote:
       | I worked at Cisco for about 3 months as a contractor before not
       | getting renewed a month ago. Most hilariously inept
       | infrastrecture code base I have had the displeasure of working
       | with so far, and this team was supposed to be the one paving the
       | way forward for finally bringing them from on-prem to the cloud.
       | Literally could only understand my manager about half the time as
       | he had a thick accent and spoke quickly (did not have this
       | problem with any other team members despite them having the same
       | type of accent), and my laptop broke halfway through and it took
       | them a week to send someone out to fix it. Making about $50k per
       | year more full time in a new gig and get to work with an infra
       | code base that I actually enjoy. AMAA.
        
       | RomanPushkin wrote:
       | Phraseology:
       | 
       | Roku: "Current economic conditions"
       | 
       | Cisco: "rebalance across the board"
       | 
       | Amazon: "unusual and uncertain macroeconomic environment"
       | 
       | Disney: "a targeted hiring freeze"
       | 
       | Meta: "macroeconomic downturn"
       | 
       | Salesforce: "performance issues"
       | 
       | Stripe: "stubborn inflation, energy shocks, higher interest
       | rates, reduced investment budgets and sparser startup funding,"
       | 
       | Opendoor: "the most challenging real estate market in 40 years"
        
         | flerchin wrote:
         | Twitter: "" gestures vaguely at Elon.
        
           | user_ wrote:
           | > "Frankly, the economic picture ahead is dire"
           | 
           | > "An increasingly competitive world"
        
         | i_love_music wrote:
         | Cool observation. Fascinating to see how corporate speak
         | spreads and builds off each other. These are like memes in
         | their technical definition - "behavior that may be considered
         | to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic
         | means, especially imitation"
         | 
         | Once a company or two uses these phrases it become politically
         | acceptable to repeat them because they have now been "vetted".
         | Contrarian or outsider views are not well received most of the
         | time despite all of us wanting to believe we're
         | different/unique/contrarian.
         | 
         | Humans are such an interesting species.
        
         | apohn wrote:
         | >Opendoor: "the most challenging real estate market in 40
         | years"
         | 
         | Didn't the subprime mortgage crisis happen in 2007? The current
         | situation is worse than that???
        
           | dilyevsky wrote:
           | Also forget about a multi year slump of the early 1990s
        
           | 1letterunixname wrote:
           | About 5 years post dotcom bubble.
           | 
           | I think it's worse considering the inflation in food and
           | gasoline. A 6 pack of beer at the grocery store is $10 now. 1
           | L of carrot juice is $6. It's unsustainable especially
           | considering how wages barely moved for anyone. I don't see
           | how people are getting by.
        
           | soperj wrote:
           | For the greater world I'd say definitely.
        
             | apohn wrote:
             | >For the greater world I'd say definitely.
             | 
             | Could you elaborate? I honestly don't understand...
             | 
             | The effects of subprime crisis was not limited to the US.
             | And instead of people not being able to afford homes, there
             | were lots of people worldwide who lost their homes after
             | they lost their jobs and their properly values collapsed.
             | 
             | https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/investment-
             | analysis/The-...
             | 
             | Opendoor is US only (as far as I know) so the layoff
             | justification just seems silly.
        
               | yamtaddle wrote:
               | I think it's possible market velocity is lower now (house
               | prices still somehow insanely-high while mortgage rates
               | are also much higher than they've been for many years)
               | and expected to remain so longer, than in 2008, which
               | might mean it is worse _for Open Door_ , if not overall.
        
           | matt_s wrote:
           | For them it is, I think they're one of those companies that
           | buys property from you without listings, etc. then you can
           | move and they clean it up and list it. My guess is the
           | property is on their books and prices have been fluctuating a
           | lot so they could be upside-down on a bunch of inventory with
           | less home buyers because the interest rates rose.
           | 
           | For a home owner selling and a realtor, the realtor likely
           | has to compete to earn business but they are a third party to
           | the transaction.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | I prefer this over everyone using the same excuse and or reason
         | (contrast with Twitter talking points from pundits who use the
         | same phraseology to push for or against something).
        
         | RomanPushkin wrote:
         | Upstart: "the challenging economy"
         | 
         | Seagate technologies: "global economic uncertainties"
         | 
         | Philips: "worsening macroeconomic environment"
         | 
         | Microsoft: "valuate our business priorities on a regular basis
         | and make structural adjustments accordingly"
         | 
         | Intel: "sudden and rapid" economic decline
         | 
         | Twilio: workforce grew "too fast" and "without enough focus"
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | I love how vague they all are. They might as well have said
           | "We have a bad feeling about the world" or "We consulted an
           | ouija board" as justifications. Do they really think a normal
           | person reads these and accepts the reasoning?
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | FTX: "drug laced penthouse orgy ponzi scheme blowup"
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | RomanPushkin wrote:
         | SAP (2019): "fitness program"
        
       | apohn wrote:
       | It's hard to understand if this is actually related to layoffs
       | based on larger market forces, or just a once a year house
       | cleaning.
       | 
       | I've worked at places that laid people off once a year. It's a
       | common way to give managers a way to get rid of under performing
       | employees without the hassle of going through a PIP. The manager
       | gets rid of a bad fit, the employee gets some severance, so both
       | sides get something.
       | 
       | But since this is happening at the same time as other companies
       | doing layoffs it can seem like it's all occuring for the same
       | reasons.
        
         | pinewurst wrote:
         | I feel it's more market psychology in many cases - having to
         | demonstrate to the analysts that you're being fiscally prudent
         | (hence the commonly resultant stock price increase) rather than
         | any particular internal need. It's a shame that perfectly
         | decent people are being let go so that some Wall Street Chad
         | can make a check mark.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | I mean it doesn't matter in the sense if those laid off can't
         | find a job easily. The numbers are starting to build up.
        
           | 1letterunixname wrote:
           | It's the upheaval and the lack of security. Not everyone can
           | get a job instantly, especially if they're older or fresh out
           | of college.
           | 
           | Another reason to favor worker-owned co-ops rather than
           | publicly-traded companies.
        
           | apohn wrote:
           | You are correct that if you are unemployed and looking for a
           | job it doesn't matter. All you see is increasing competition
           | in the job seeker market and that sucks.
           | 
           | But it does matter for people who are employed and looking
           | for jobs. If you are unhappy and/or underpaid at your current
           | job, layoffs all caused by larger market forces might be
           | interpreted as a hint that you should think about staying at
           | a "safe" job unless you really hate it. However, if some
           | significant portion of the the layoffs is due to recent over-
           | hiring and that has now swung the other way into layoffs,
           | changing jobs might be less risky.
        
             | y-c-o-m-b wrote:
             | > If you are unhappy and/or underpaid at your current job,
             | layoffs all caused by larger market forces might be
             | interpreted as a hint that you should think about staying
             | at a "safe" job unless you really hate it.
             | 
             | That's an excellent point. I'm itching to leave my company
             | at the moment, but I've avoided looking elsewhere because
             | it's relatively "safe" (for now), so you're spot on. This
             | also appears to be the case with literally everyone I've
             | spoken to about the topic in my social circle. That being
             | said, all those people have reported recent layoffs at
             | their companies; across many different sectors and income
             | brackets. My sister works in healthcare and said the
             | hospital just sent out letters notifying everyone of
             | upcoming layoffs.
        
               | that_guy_iain wrote:
               | I stayed at a company I hated for too long because it was
               | safe - I was literally the only person who could fix the
               | legacy system that was responsible for half of the
               | company.
               | 
               | After I left, I realised how much of a negative effect
               | the company was having on me. I had coworkers point it
               | out and say they were sad about it but I never realised
               | it myself until after I left and realised the difference
               | just in my dreams nevermind all the other stuff.
        
           | that_guy_iain wrote:
           | The thing with people getting laid off is I think many of
           | them are in the position where the only place they would fit
           | in is a mega tech corp. And since all the mega tech corps are
           | doing layoffs, it really doesn't seem like it's going to be
           | that easy for them to find a job.
           | 
           | For example, if you've been working on a database system for
           | 8 years, there aren't that many companies that need to
           | develop their own internal database system so the matches are
           | slimmer. Or if you've been doing SRE on 1k k8s clusters,
           | there aren't that many companies that are doing k8s at that
           | scale and working at lower scales is completely different.
           | 
           | Another thing with going from a mega corp to a
           | startup/smaller business is the expected performance. Mega
           | corps are slower with low acceptance of errors while smaller
           | businesses are faster with a higher acceptance of errors.
           | 
           | This doesn't even factor in that it also seems like smaller
           | companies are also doing downsizing at the moment. I'm seeing
           | smaller companies add in policies which are clearly designed
           | to make people want to quit to companies getting rid of all
           | of their remote devs because they're the easiest to fire. The
           | job market doesn't look good right now.
        
             | shagie wrote:
             | Yes... with qualifications.
             | 
             | I saw the dot com crash up close (wasn't laid off, but I
             | saw the people who were recently laid off in the local pub
             | with a pager that wasn't buzzing next to a pint glass... or
             | the guy with a masters working the late shift at
             | Blockbuster). When the housing crash came with its
             | recession and layoffs, I was part of that.
             | 
             | If I had done a "I want to keep living in SF and maintain
             | my big tech standard of living in an expensive city" it
             | would have been difficult since there were thousands of
             | other people who had that same idea.
             | 
             | Instead I moved to the midwest and got a job working in the
             | tech department of a retail company. I did not have too
             | much difficulty finding that job.
             | 
             | I've since switched to public sector and that job was not
             | hard to get either (and for those who have applied, we've
             | hired every competent dev who has shown up in the stacks of
             | resumes - as this is public sector, not many apply).
             | 
             | There are a lot of jobs out there. Pull up
             | https://careers.walmart.com and go to 'technology' and
             | follow it from there. Hundreds of open positions.
             | 
             | If one moves away from expecting that the median job is the
             | big tech job in SF or one that they can get remote... there
             | are a lot of jobs out there.
             | 
             | However, from many that I've see on tech career sites, the
             | mere thinking of getting a job at Wallmart is beneath them.
             | That SRE with 1k k8s clusters?
             | https://careers.mcdonalds.com/global-
             | corporate/jobs/40600010... or https://careers-
             | chickfila.icims.com/jobs/12125/lead-site-rel...
        
       | slt2021 wrote:
       | Cisco has been known to have constant annual layoffs
        
       | theGnuMe wrote:
       | Interesting how stripe lists "sparser startup funding".
        
       | VirusNewbie wrote:
       | Cisco recruiter hit me up on LI today!
        
       | 1letterunixname wrote:
       | I believe it was 2001 or 2 post dotcom, Intel fired a fraction of
       | the company by algorithm. A lead architect of a critical project
       | was fired. Oops.
        
       | swframe2 wrote:
       | A pundit pointed out that in several cases, the tech firms laying
       | off have returned to their employee size of 1 year ago and that
       | there are still many jobs available in the industry. Have you
       | seen articles on how long people are taking to find their next
       | job and if they are better off?
        
         | autotune wrote:
        
         | DFXLuna wrote:
         | This is something I'm interested in as well. It feels like last
         | year, I saw every tech company fighting tooth and nail to
         | scrape up every last engineer. We even had trouble making
         | modest pickups at my own megacorp because candidates were
         | getting multiple offers during our accelerated interview
         | process.
         | 
         | This seems weird though because I have no doubt that every
         | financial analyst at each of these companies saw the incoming
         | downturn a mile away. If it was just a few of the companies
         | making recent questionable decisions (Twitter, meta) it would
         | make more sense to me, but the list of companies laying people
         | off keeps growing.
        
       | RomanPushkin wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/Wt7Rp
        
       | clavalle wrote:
       | The only shocking things about this layoff at Cisco, which happen
       | about once a year, is that it didn't happen during their normal
       | time in the summer and that the numbers are so modest.
        
         | dilyevsky wrote:
         | Ikr? They've been laying off thousands from botched
         | acquisitions and what not for as long as I can remember
        
       | Giorgi wrote:
       | All of these companies seem to rely on pandemic lockdown - demand
       | for remote job influx. As pandemic is over, surge of the demand
       | evaporated and now they need to downsize again.
       | 
       | What's ironic I remember articles actually predicting that at the
       | end of the pandemic people will not go back to offices and would
       | rather quit than work inside the office again.
       | 
       | But here we are, companies firing en masse
        
         | willio58 wrote:
         | I'm one of those that would rather quit than work in an office.
         | Remote life is too hard to give up now. Im healthier physically
         | and mentally, have more time to spend with friends and family,
         | why would I give that up?
        
       | candiodari wrote:
       | Been there done that. Part of a cisco layoff due to department
       | moving ... 15 years ago I think. Caused me to sell my shares,
       | which turned out to be an excellent decision.
        
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