[HN Gopher] CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-bala...
___________________________________________________________________
CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric
skateboards
Author : alden5
Score : 128 points
Date : 2022-11-16 20:41 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cpsc.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cpsc.gov)
| thembones wrote:
| Never been able to understand why these don't come by default on
| the Onewheels: https://land-surf.com/products/new-fangs-gt-built-
| tough-to-r...
|
| I put these on mine and love em. They work well and prevent
| exactly what's being described.
| birdman3131 wrote:
| But then it would be a 5 wheel.
| alden5 wrote:
| I personally don't like fangs as when the bumper drags on the
| ground during a nosedive it slows the board down quickly, when
| I first nosedived at 3k miles the friction caused me to slow
| down to about 5mph before I had to run it out, I was going
| downhill and if I had fangs I would have continued
| accelerating, eventually you need to bail and with fangs
| wouldn't have been able to run it out.
| acomjean wrote:
| On the one hand people seem to get good enough on them to be able
| to race down mountains. But they do seem somewhat dangerous when
| in the mix with cars,bikes and pedestrians. There is I imagine a
| learning curve.
|
| https://www.onewheelracing.com/
|
| They're fairly uncommon here around Boston, and usually riders
| are wearing motorcycle style helmets. I see a lot more electric
| scooters zipping around (like the Bird and Lime ones, but
| privately owned). The only device I've seen someone fall off of
| was an electric skateboard (No particular reason (they were
| coming to a stop at a light and fell foward.).
| alden5 wrote:
| onewheels suffer from a problem known as nosediving in which the
| board shuts off when it can't supply enough power to support the
| rider, as the board is self balancing this is a problem intrinsic
| to the board's form factor. The board works in a similar fashion
| to balancing something like an umbrella on your hand, as the
| rider leans forward it creates an imbalance that requires the
| board to accelerate in order to keep the rider upright. The only
| possible safety feature to prevent nosedives is to inform the
| rider that they're approaching the board's limits, this is done
| with "pushback" where the board elevates the nose making the
| rider uncomfortable, signaling that they should slow down. Newer
| boards are more aggressive with pushback, it's definitely a
| balancing act giving the user the most power from their board
| while also preventing them from nosediving, future motion faced
| significant backlash when their new flagship board implemented
| extremely strong pushback at a speed lower than a prior
| discontinued model
| furyofantares wrote:
| Mine just turns off even on flat ground when fully charged and
| ejects me forward. Started happening after about a week of use,
| just as I was getting comfortable, but it's just completely
| unusable. Maybe I'm a bit too big, or riding a bit too far
| forward or something, I don't know, but I feel a bit vindicated
| now.
|
| What a waste of money, I'm glad I wasn't injured worse than
| just some scrapes and bruises.
| slt2021 wrote:
| FutureMotion must equip all onewheels with safety wheels on
| both sides. Also known as Fangs bumper wheels. This must come
| standard from factory, just as safety belts come with car.
|
| physics is no excuse for lousy engineering from FutureMotion
| and complete disregard of life threatening diving condition!
| alana314 wrote:
| Pushback on my XR is extremely subtle. The GTs have audio
| pushback but it's quiet. The app on my phone and watch tell me
| if I'm low on battery or have wheelslip, but I wish there was
| just a simple pushback notification. It would be so easy.
| drcode wrote:
| As a onewheel owner, one feature I think needs to be eliminated
| from the device are the "digital shaping modules" that allow
| you to modify the behavior of the board via software. It should
| has only one mode, which is "do everything possible to make
| sure the user doesn't crash"
|
| I only had one fall on my onewheel with ~2 years of use, and
| that was when I was testing one of the "smooth ride" software
| modes and it therefore didn't move forward as quickly as I
| usually expected (because it was emphasizing "smooth" over
| "responsive") causing me to fall forward. There was absolutely
| no good reason for that fall to happen, I think.
| s17n wrote:
| Pushback is extremely unintuitive, it should do pushforward
| instead.
| frankus wrote:
| It also seems like they could do haptics, i.e. superimpose an
| audio-frequency wave on the motor current. Similar to the
| steering feedback you get with a lane departure warning
| system.
|
| But then again it might be difficult/impossible to make it
| distinguishable from e.g. rough pavement.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| An 80db piezo buzzer is $.13 and can operate on logic
| levels.
|
| No need to get fancy
| closetohome wrote:
| This could 100% be done in software -- it's already
| adjusting the wheel speed a thousand times a second, it
| would be trivial to add some haptic oscillation.
| alana314 wrote:
| Why? That would cause you to accelerate which would cause a
| nosedive.
| aksss wrote:
| It has a pushforward mode - we just refer to it as
| nosediving. It's very intuitive, and a great trainer.
| Instills respect very quickly.
| pram wrote:
| It happens at low speeds too! I hit a pothole on my bike and
| flew off the front and had a concussion/sternum fracture, and I
| was going like >5mph. I couldn't believe it. It has made me
| permanently scared of electric bikes.
|
| (yes I was wearing a helmet thankfully or I might actually be
| dead)
| bombcar wrote:
| I've read somewhere that a majority of the "damage" from a
| bike accident is actually the "head to concrete" fall
| distance, and that speed often isn't a major factor.
| partdavid wrote:
| Why electric bikes specifically?
| aksss wrote:
| Good summary. I would just add that "can't supply enough power"
| is a state the board can enter into either in lower battery
| levels or (more often) when a rider has put their center of
| mass too far forward, causing the board to work harder to stay
| under them, while also moving at a higher rate of speed or
| accelerating - the board can't give enough power to maintain
| this.
|
| Pushback is to be respected, but the user can also ignore it
| and carry on. It's literally the board telling you that you
| need to get ready to run if you don't stop, but many will just
| ignore and keep on keepin' on, often at speeds faster than they
| are capable of running.
|
| Watch this in action here:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/ywq655/the_scorpi...
|
| I've said before that Onewheels are the Lawn Darts of our
| generation, we're lucky to enjoy them before the nannies start
| taking our toys away. They are super fun though - so much fun.
| [deleted]
| js2 wrote:
| When I was a teenager I rode my skateboard down a parking lot
| ramp when I realized I was going way too fast, was about to
| enter the street and the only way to bail was to jump off and
| run. It looked about like that video.
|
| I didn't realize these one wheels have top speeds of 16-20
| mph. That's faster than most people can sprint. 16 mph is a
| 3:45 mile. 20 is a 3:00 mile.
|
| > we're lucky to enjoy them before the nannies start taking
| our toys away
|
| See also three wheelers:
|
| https://www.hotcars.com/this-is-why-the-3-wheeled-atv-was-
| ba...
|
| But I dunno, where do you draw the line? As a 50 year-old who
| makes a living typing I chose not to buy a table saw last
| year because I decided it was inherently a riskier tool that
| I ever wanted to use. I ended up with a track saw instead. I
| think that was a good decision but not sure it's one I would
| have been wise enough to make in my younger years. Now I'm
| not advocating for banning table saws: my point is that
| Onewheel can put every warning and disclaimer in the world on
| their product and some people will still not appreciate the
| risks involved.
|
| That said, 4 deaths over 2 years doesn't seem out of line
| with other products in the same category. I wonder if
| something else is going on to draw the CPSC's ire.
| psychlops wrote:
| If only the CPSC had tested skateboards for speed wobbles,
| they would be banned.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| > I didn't realize these one wheels have top speeds of
| 16-20 mph. That's faster than most people can sprint. 16
| mph is a 3:45 mile. 20 is a 3:00 mile.
|
| Those numbers are somewhat relevant but shorter sprints are
| about 50% faster than a mile pace.
| js2 wrote:
| 16 mph is also a 14 second 100-meter dash. You have to be
| in decent shape to run that quickly and your legs already
| have to be in motion. 20 mph is an 11 second 100-meter
| dash. That's fast enough to win races against all but
| trained athletes.
|
| FWIW, I'm a marathon runner with a 3:07 PR. I've done a
| lot of speed work. I don't think I could run fast enough
| to keep up falling off a board in motion at 16 mph.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Those comments are nuts. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comme
| nts/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_...
|
| They're mostly all like "Yeah OneWheels are cool but my buddy
| leaned too far forward once and now his jaw's wired shut for
| 6 weeks" https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_s
| corpion_...
|
| Or "I saw a guy almost die on one of these" https://www.reddi
| t.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_...
|
| Or "Yeah a bunch of my friends have broken their bones at our
| weekly OneWheel meetup, and OneWheels are universally
| recognized as a wheeling death trap if you're not careful.
| But it's totally worth it because, like, it's fun!" https://w
| ww.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_...
|
| I think I'll stick to quadcopters...
| somehnguy wrote:
| I'm assuming you don't take part in the MultiGP drone
| racing scene then. Onewheels and quads just seem to go
| together - at any big race you'll see a bunch of them
| wheeling around.
|
| Quads can be pretty dangerous too. One wrong switch flip
| and you can look like you went through a deli slicer. Move
| up to the bigger prop sizes and they can do more than that.
| ksbrooksjr wrote:
| Apparently some users have attached smaller wheels to the
| front of the Onewheel that engage during a nosedive [1]. I
| wonder how effective these are at preventing injury.
|
| [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/903wnj/diy_ant
| ino...
| robocat wrote:
| There's a heap of videos showing serious crashes on youtube.
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY is titled "OneWheel --
| The Deadliest EV" and it is was published two years ago. It shows
| many short clips of some crashes in the first minute, however,
| beware, it is very uncomfortable viewing if you empathise with
| accident victims (I don't watch American pratfall TV programming
| for the same reason).
|
| That video also talks about another design/usability flaw at 8
| minutes 30.
| 1attice wrote:
| With thunderstorms, you count seconds 'twixt bolt and boom.
|
| With the current golden age of electrified last-mile transport,
| we're seeing the gap between innovation and regulation opening up
| wide -- now several years.
|
| Real-world impact: I routinely get up to speeds on my e-bike that
| are, quite simply, dangerous. It's not that I _never_ hit 25
| miles an hour on my old road bike, it 's that I spend so much
| more time hanging out at ~25mph on my ebike that potholes have
| gone from annoyance to mortal danger.
|
| The risk is somewhat mitigated by the enormous tires and superior
| build quality on the braking system, but not entirely. I'm glad
| to have taken a motorcycle license training course, and heartily
| recommend that other early adopters think about voluntarily
| seeking out additional training (and I imagine e-* specific
| courses are available now, if not soon.) Not all good ideas come
| with mandates :D
| arglebargle123 wrote:
| Another commenter posted about this in a separate top level
| comment already but it's worth mentioning here as well since
| you mention speed. The people who routinely hit 25+mph on a
| regular road bike know how to handle one at those speeds, many
| ebike riders simply don't have the handling skills or the
| experience to ride safely (for themselves and others) at speed.
| ars wrote:
| I was using an e-bike on a road with some ripples (I guess they
| messed up during paving). I was thrown off of the bike, and my
| helmet prevented any serious injury.
|
| I wasn't even going very fast.
|
| The only solution to that (and the potholes) is larger wheels.
| jeffbee wrote:
| What about this experience is specific to electric bikes?
| kube-system wrote:
| Smaller tires and rotating assemblies with less mass are
| more susceptible to uneven pavement. For example, a vehicle
| like a motorcycle or even a motor scooter will be able to
| handle imperfections on city streets more easily.
|
| If you got a bigger gyroscope under your butt, you're
| harder to knock over.
| recursive wrote:
| Riding position and weighting distribution.
|
| If you're sitting straight up with 90% of your weight on the
| saddle, this can happen easily. If your weight is evenly
| split between saddle, pedal and bars, and your elbows are
| bent, you can absorb some pretty rough roads.
| outworlder wrote:
| At least bicycles are stable. This onewheel thing cannot work
| without a computer balancing it (+ the rider). If it fails the
| rider falls on their face. It would be the equivalent of a bike
| fork breaking.
| [deleted]
| FpUser wrote:
| >"heartily recommend that other early adopters think about
| voluntarily seeking out additional training"
|
| Alternatively one can stop being an idiot and ride at safe
| speed. I bet that "additional training" would require at least
| this kind of sanity
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Are you saying that 25mph is inherently unsafe? What's the
| safe speed then, for a normal dry day?
|
| Does this speed limit apply to motorcycles too?
| vel0city wrote:
| I ride motorcycles on highways going 80mph+. I rode an
| engine conversion at 25mph and nope'd right out of doing
| that again.
|
| The motorcycle's geometry is way different. It has a much
| larger contact patch. It has much more powerful brakes.
| zdragnar wrote:
| Falling from a standing position can be dangerous. "Safe"
| is a function of the environment you're in and device
| you're riding- traction, obstacles, intersections, speed of
| other traffic, visible distance (fog / clear sky / bend in
| the road), wind, all sorts of things.
|
| Motorcycles have different tire sizes, masses and centers
| of gravity. The speed they can "safely" travel will always
| be different than a bicycle.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| Safety is conditional to a lot more than speed.
| bombcar wrote:
| People assume a "bike" is safe, and a "motorbike" can be
| dangerous, but there's no real difference between them.
|
| I've reached 35 MPH downhill under pedal power; if I had
| wiped out I would have been in a world of hurt, or dead,
| depending on how it had gone.
| fragmede wrote:
| Motorbikes can easily (<10 seconds?) reach 4x your 35 mph,
| is probably why. That's why the full-face helmet and racing
| leathers. The leathers aren't going to help you if you go
| flying and hit something, which is why you should never
| ride that aggressively on the street, but if you go sliding
| for hundreds of feet, hopefully you only need a new suit
| and not most of your skin.
|
| But you're right that even at 35 mph you'd be in a world of
| hurt. Every time I see a bicyclist going aggressively
| downhill in a bowl helmet and a barely-there lycra suit, I
| cringe so hard. You know how they get rid of road rash?
| They aggressively brush it out with what amounts to
| sandpaper.
| kube-system wrote:
| Yet, the average motorcycle accident happens from speeds
| less than 30mph. Those speeds are plenty enough to kill.
| It all depends on what you hit and how.
| mrchucklepants wrote:
| I've hit 50 mph downhill on my bike just to say I'd done
| it. I started thinking of all the ways it could end badly.
| As soon as I hit 50, I was on the brakes.
| Shared404 wrote:
| I was almost killed by a downhill max speed bike crash when
| I was ~12.
|
| Wearing a properly fitted helmet, I was knocked unconscious
| and concussed quite badly by the hit to my head.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| One of my own more indelible memories is of sprinting down
| a sizeable hill, out of the saddle and over the front
| wheel, handily pulling away from my buddy whose bike
| computer was reading 65 kph (40 mph), wearing shorts,
| cleats, gloves, and a shit-eating grin.
|
| Two days later, tooling around on flat ground, my
| handlebars came apart in my hands, thanks to hidden long-
| developing stress fractures, a characteristic of aluminium
| alloys. (There'd been numerous previous falls.)
|
| Speed is indeed fun. But its consequences can be extreme.
|
| (I've hit 80+ kph / 50+ mph on other rides.)
|
| Another factor is rider mass. An elite cyclist at 60--65 kg
| (135--145 lb) can brake far more effectively than a past-
| their-prime 115--135 kg (250--300 lb) rider, particularly,
| again, on a grade. Brakes have only so much stopping power.
|
| E-bikes make higher-speeds for less-experienced and less-
| skilled riders far more attainable.
|
| Typical recreational cyclists spend most of their time in
| the 20--30 kph (12--18 mph) speed range.
| FpUser wrote:
| >"People assume a "bike" is safe"
|
| Bike is not safe. And it is not even about being hit by the
| car. Cyclists often fall and often it results in broken
| bones etc.
| enneff wrote:
| If you look at cities where bikes are well integrated
| then they are way safer than cars.
| neilv wrote:
| The speeds of the motorized scooters/bikes/etc., and seeming
| recklessness of their riders, has become a problem on the
| sidewalks of college town Cambridge, Mass.
|
| For example, at least three times in the last week alone, I've
| literally almost been run into by someone blasting out of, or
| alongside, Harvard Yard on one motorized vehicle or another.
|
| Some of the bicyclists seem similarly reckless and self-
| absorbed. A couple times in the last week I've almost been hit
| on the sidewalk by a speeding bicyclist.
|
| Also, a few nights ago, I was almost struck in the head by
| someone on a Blue Bikes rental bike, blowing through a
| crosswalk that had a walk light, and after the cars had already
| stopped for the red. (They were also speeding across the
| ambulance entrance&exit for a hospital ED, so doubly reckless,
| though convenient for me, had they cracked my head open.)
|
| Anecdotally, the bicyclist wtf rate seems much than it used to
| be, and I wonder whether some of the motorized vehicles are
| setting precedents for behavior.
|
| I intend to bring this up with the City, where I know they have
| some people who care very much about bike etc. transportation.
| I'm also mentally composing a concerned letter to the Harvard
| administration, both about public safety, and about the image
| of their students as reckless and self-absorbed.
| roughly wrote:
| I picked up an e-bike not too long ago and took a bit to decide
| between class 2 and class 3 - I didn't have enough experience
| with a bike and a speedometer to gauge whether the 20mph limit
| on class 2 would be enough. Having ridden around for a while
| now, yeah, absolutely agree - anything over ~15-20mph is above
| my comfort zone for "able to adjust to sudden changes in the
| environment." Folks who get the "class 4"s are baiting a date
| with a reconstructive surgeon.
| frankus wrote:
| It's a bit of a balance. It's great to be able to keep up
| with the 25 mph/40 kph traffic on city streets, but small
| bumps in the pavement are rough and of course there's
| quadratically more energy to manage in the event of a crash.
|
| I think we need to normalize the idea that riding a class 3
| bike requires using at a minimum a full-face helmet,
| motorcycle gloves, and close-toed shoes.
|
| Personally I'll likely keep riding my bike in class 3 mode
| since it results in zero speed penalty over driving in town
| (and often is faster thanks to bike lanes that bring you to
| the front of a line of cars stopped at a light, and can
| typically be parked steps away from the door of where I'm
| going).
| 0_____0 wrote:
| While quite reasonable, you'd be facing an uphill battle in
| many places.
|
| In a lot of the United States, it's pretty common to see
| someone riding a 160hp 4-cyl sportbike in a t-shirt and
| flip-flops. Other riders call them 'squids.' EMTs call them
| 'road crayons.'
| roughly wrote:
| Yeah, I'm lucky in that my city's done a fantastic job of
| creating bicycle infrastructure - between dedicated trails,
| clear bike lanes, and streets that have been designed &
| designated for bikes, it's rare I have to interact with
| fast-moving traffic (the rare times I do are just as
| unpleasant as everywhere else, of course).
| 0_____0 wrote:
| A new e-bike rider who suddenly is capable of 20mph and has
| no experience to the contrary might assume (wrongly) that
| they can navigate safely at that speed.
|
| Cyclists who can maintain 20+ mph on flat ground (not at all
| uncommon!) will have many more riding hours under their
| belts, and the commensurate handling skills and instincts.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| This has definitely been my observation as well. E-bike
| riders tend to be less experienced at a given speed then
| cyclists.
|
| They also seem less likely to be comfortable riding on the
| road (understandably) so illegally use sidewalks to a
| greater degree.
| roughly wrote:
| I've certainly seen this with the rent-a-bikes - there
| were rent-a-ebikes in my area for a while, and those
| folks were frightening.
|
| Of course, we've still got the rental e-scooters, so our
| supply of "people riding way faster than logic, wisdom,
| their wheels, and the surroundings would suggest" is
| still in adequate supplied.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| In SF, I actually notice this more with the non-rental
| ones - the bikeshare e-bikes are pedal assist so a bit
| different.
|
| I am hoping that as time goes on these newfound e-bike
| owners will get more comfortable and will respect
| traditional biking norms.
|
| Another phenomena I've noticed is a lot more kids with
| e-bikes, oftentimes 3 kids to a single bike.
| Glide wrote:
| God... the most close calls I've seen have always been
| with rental e-scooters. Both of them blew past a red
| light, which btw, I was stopped at on my e-scooter. He
| nearly got hit by a SUV if the driver didn't stop.
|
| I think there's some expectation for bikes to go with
| traffic, rental scooter riders think they're some kind of
| unicorn where right of way no longer applies.
|
| And I am assuming they are rental scooters because of the
| styling and lack of helmet.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| I think generally the cultural expectation among bikers
| is stop signs as yield and red lights as (at minimum)
| stop signs.
| gttalbot wrote:
| Honestly if the CPSC existed when motorcycles were invented, they
| might not exist. I gotta go with the Onewheel people on this one.
| danboarder wrote:
| I own and ride a Onewheel Pint (17mph max) and found it limiting,
| so moved up to an EUC (electric unicycle) that goes 30mph. I
| always wear a helmet and come from an extensive background riding
| BMX on ramps and jumps, skateboarding, snowboarding, and mountain
| biking.
|
| I agree with some other comments here that there is a learning
| curve and these are relatively dangerous for new riders, just
| like a skateboard is dangerous. But I do not think these are
| inherently more dangerous than a normal skateboard or bike. It's
| just that the self balancing and electronic assistance can give
| an unearned sense of confidence where the rider is less cautious
| than they should be.
| izzydata wrote:
| Do segways have a similar problem or is the vehicle large enough
| that it can always counter balance your weight?
| duskwuff wrote:
| The Segway had a shorter platform, so the user wouldn't put it
| as far out of balance under typical use, and it had handlebars
| which allowed the user to pull it back if they started losing
| their balance. It also had a lower top speed of 10 mph (12.5 on
| later models); the Onewheel could run at 15-20+ mph.
|
| (I use the past tense because Segway production ended in 2020.)
| ars wrote:
| I think the pole in the center prevents your body from leaning
| forward more than the Segway will tilt (i.e. it can just tilt
| backwards, and push your body back where it belongs).
|
| With the Onewheel you can just lean forward as much as you
| like, and the board is supposed to accelerate to bring your
| center of balance back into the middle.
| idatum wrote:
| My inner twenty-something and my not-twenty-something body will
| benefit from a report like this. I'm still reasonably athletic
| and those things look dang _cool_ , but the pause a report like
| this gives is healthy.
|
| I also agree with other comments related to motorized bicycles. I
| wear motorcycle gear even when riding locally and under 40 mph.
| Electric bikers can benefit from "gearing up".
| jshzglr wrote:
| Let's recall all cars. I hear people get injured in them as well.
| kube-system wrote:
| We do recall cars when design flaws endanger or kill users.
| This happens literally hundreds of times per year in the US.
| jgalentine007 wrote:
| They made 3-wheelers illegal, Onewheels seem not much safer.
| ok_dad wrote:
| I never realized how fast 25mph was until I fell off my two
| wheeled electric scooter going that speed and was slowed down by
| a bus-head impact after I braked a bit. Luckily I was wearing a
| helmet and long pants, but I still broke my back in several
| places. A cop that saw me whiff it said I was probably only going
| 10 by the time I hit the bus.
|
| I believe all of these electric whatever should be lawfully
| mandated to go below at least 15mph if not lower. I don't believe
| that people are able to grasp just how unsafe those speeds are.
| themagician wrote:
| I can not believe it took this long.
|
| After trying one for a bit I always wanted to get one, but never
| felt fully safe riding it. I even asked them repeatedly if they
| ever had a plan to introduce a board with some kind of additional
| set of wheels or bearings on the ends to let you "roll out" in
| the event of a power failure. The issues has always been that, in
| the event of a loss of power for any reason, because you are
| usually leaning forward, the board grinds to an almost immediate
| stop and you just go flying. Happened to me once in the sand and
| even that hurt. The board basically decelerates to zero
| instantly.
|
| I thought long and hard about buying one and modifying the skid
| plates with a row of large ball bearings or maybe even small
| skateboard wheels. You just need something so that if the power
| fails you at least can _attempt_ some kind of recovery. The way
| it is now, if the power fails, you are simply getting launched. I
| always wondered how they hadn 't been sued into oblivion, always
| thinking to myself, "Someone must have died from this by now." I
| guess at least four people have... but somehow they've been able
| to produce and sell these for nearly a decade.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Onewheel started with a 2014 Kickstarter with 400 units that
| had 5 miles of range and a 13 mph top speed. The 2017 XR and
| 2020 and later GT and Pint versions that can go 20+ miles at
| 20+ miles per hour are incredibly new as far as transportation
| tech goes.
|
| 2021, when the most recent death was reported, was literally
| just last year. That's light speed for a bureacracy.
|
| Technology is far faster than regulation - this is true with
| respect to Uber, Twitter, Onewheel, AirBNB, and a dozen other
| new tech companies.
| evan_ wrote:
| you can get a kit to put little casters on ("fangs") but since
| they lower the front end they can snag on stuff that wouldn't
| be a problem otherwise
| parkingrift wrote:
| I don't know why the CPSC has singled out Onewheel. If they're
| going to try and regulate this new class of mobility they need to
| do better than phoning it in. This feels just as random and
| absurd as the clampdowns on Juul. Don't buy Juul, but do feel
| free to buy flavored nicotine from these thousands of other less
| scrupulous vendors.
|
| There are absurdly under braked e-bikes with 30+ mph motors,
| electric scooters with 40+ mph motors, "unicycles" with 40+ mph
| motors, and even competing "onewheel" type products. Based on the
| arguments provided in the linked article these are all worthy of
| regulation. I disagree with the premise, but if they're going to
| regulate one they should regulate all.
| salad-fan wrote:
| bilsbie wrote:
| Seems uncalled for.
| salad-fan wrote:
| julienb_sea wrote:
| This reminds me of the Juul ban, which flagrantly ignored the
| trivial availability of competing vape products.
|
| Then again, the Onewheel system is rather unique. I would be
| curious to see a safety comparison of Onewheel versus the much
| more common self-balancing unicycles.
| teekert wrote:
| 4 deaths in all those years? Much safer than most forms of
| transport then? Of course I didn't do the math but it seems like
| very little, perhaps there also aren't that many out there?
| [deleted]
| kube-system wrote:
| 4 deaths might be quite a lot for such a relatively low volume
| product.
|
| By comparison, some car models have recently had their death
| rates drop to zero after nobody died in them over similar
| periods of time. And these figures are mostly user error.
| Deaths due to product failures of automobiles are usually
| pretty notable and are acted upon by regulators.
| advisedwang wrote:
| "four reported deaths between ... after the product failed to
| balance the rider or suddenly stopped while in motion"
|
| These are deaths specifically from the scooter suddenly
| stopping mid-ride and throwing the rider off. It's not
| including deaths like getting hit by a car. This is the product
| spontaniously killing people!
| easygenes wrote:
| Yes, but it is unclear that there was a product failure
| involved in any of those cases. If the electronics failed
| that's one thing. If the battery died because the user
| ignored it repeatedly haptically nagging them that the
| battery would die soon, that's another very different thing.
| s17n wrote:
| I'd be curious to know how many onewheels have been sold - my
| guess is that 4 deaths represents a very high risk of death
| relative to eg snowboarding, but without a denominator, there's
| no way to know.
| bombcar wrote:
| https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/50-million-miles-on...
|
| and https://www.imarcgroup.com/one-wheel-electric-scooter-
| market might be able to get a rough number.
| taylorlapeyre wrote:
| The physics of Onewheels are actually super interesting, and
| Future Motion published an extremely well-made video recently
| which explains the issue that the CPSC is referring to. It goes
| into detail about why "nosedives" happen, and how to prevent
| them. Really interesting stuff!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI
| celestialcheese wrote:
| Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug
| with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just
| rider error doing a dangerous activity?
|
| Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol
| skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective
| activities are dangerous?
|
| Participation in action sports and high-speed transportation will
| result in a higher expected mortality rate over the mean. I don't
| know who in their right mind would think flying down a street at
| >15mph on a single wheel would be _not_ incredibly dangerous.
|
| Let adults make stupid decisions - whether that's jumping off a
| building with a parachute, riding a bike down a recklessly steep
| hill or hurtling my body down Main St. on a sideways unicycle.
| aksss wrote:
| When the GT was released, there was a problem with "ghosting",
| which meant the board would keep moving after the rider had
| gotten off the board. This was traced to a faulty sensor in the
| foot pad, for which Future Motion eventually did issue a recall
| and will replace that gen foot pad at no add'l cost.
|
| It affected a minority of the boards, and the biggest concern
| was the board crashing into a pedestrian's ankle or smashing
| into traffic or parked cars. It was certainly a concern, but in
| no way something that could reasonably be expected to cause
| death or injury to the rider.
|
| That recall from FM of the footpad was done this summer.
|
| There is no open issue that I'm aware of with the board.
|
| Using them is inherently risky though, like downhill biking or
| snowboarding.
| ziziyO wrote:
| Bug is a bit of a misnomer, it's a constraint by the laws of
| physics due to the board having only a single wheel. If the
| board is being pushed beyond operating capacity, there is no
| graceful way to slow it down without the rider cooperating. If
| the rider never cooperates and the motor overheats, that's when
| you see a nosedive.
| slt2021 wrote:
| then FutureMotion must equip all onewheels with safety wheels
| on both sides. Also called as Fangs bumper wheels.
|
| physics is no excuse for lousy engineering from FutureMotion
| and complete disregard of life threatening diving condition!
| MrStonedOne wrote:
| Exuma wrote:
| I can only imagine it's about the feature where it "warns" you
| when you are leaning too far, which you can choose to ignore.
| I'm assuming most injuries are from people pushing the angle
| way too hard
| apienx wrote:
| "I don't understand why now?"
|
| Bureaucratic inefficiencies.
|
| "Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this
| injury/death?"
|
| There was an issue that the community referred to as "ghosting"
| whereby the board got a bit out of control. This was fixed with
| a firmware update. The boards also nosedive when approaching
| top speed. Some people consider that a bug, but it's just users
| neglecting instructions and warnings.
| latchkey wrote:
| > Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this
| injury/death?
|
| Yes.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=onewheel+injuri...
|
| Edit:
|
| I should have explained this more. There are whole threads on
| YT on how these things are super dangerous and causing a lot of
| injuries. Especially with random lockups.
|
| There are videos about the poor construction, lockups,
| dangerous to self repair, etc.
|
| I found them when I started to look into buying one of these
| myself.
|
| Here is a reddit thread full of stories...
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/robnkf/lets_talk_...
|
| Old, but Casey Neistat broke his collar bone...
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ay5M82IcUI
|
| Lawsuit over wrongful death:
|
| https://gearjunkie.com/news/onewheel-wrongful-death-lawsuit
|
| Nosedives:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24T4xrSf1Dg
|
| Electronic issues:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3ddOMvBws
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5b3fHL6ko0
|
| Onewheel CEO SBF moment:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2PrcgfsX14
| shockeychap wrote:
| This is not a link to a video describing a specific bug in
| the product. It's just a link to a search of "onewheel
| injuries" in YouTube, which presents a variety of videos
| detailing all manner of injuries that come from operator
| error and the inherent dangers of OneWheel operation. Try
| searching for "mountain bike injuries" and see what you get.
|
| Is there anything else? (I'm sincerely interested. The CPSC
| article clearly infers a situation in which it suddenly
| stops. Is this confirmed?)
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _(I 'm sincerely interested. The CPSC article clearly
| infers a situation in which it suddenly stops. Is this
| confirmed?)_
|
| The first few seconds of this 2-year-old video shows it
| happening to Adam Savage:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY
|
| What I'm finding after some light digging is that this
| "nosedive" problem has seemingly been injuring people for
| years. There's apparently even a small ecosystem of add-on
| products that purport to address it:
| https://www.badgerwheel.com/shop-online/badgersense
| Zak wrote:
| These search results do not appear to describe a flaw in the
| product. I watched a bit from one of the crash compilations
| and would describe every crash I saw as rider error. Many of
| them were attempting stunts, holding cameras while riding, or
| both.
|
| It may be _easy_ to make such errors, but the same could be
| said of a unicycle, skateboard, BMX bike, or any of many
| other vehicles generally seen as safe enough for sale to the
| public.
| advisedwang wrote:
| > Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this
| injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous
| activity?
|
| The article describes the scooter suddenly stopping operation
| and throwing riders off. It's not just scooting being dangerous
| generally, but a specific product flaw.
| zamalek wrote:
| I am absolutely no fan of Future Motion, and I ditched my
| OneWheel in protest. This isn't entirely a product flaw and
| comes down to physics: the board pushes you back (by lifting
| the front) to indicate that you are exceeding it's capacity
| to balance (all balancing products have a limit, with no
| exceptions). It will also push back when the battery is low.
| Either way, ignoring pushback is how people "suddenly have
| the board stop."
|
| Major caveat though: nearly all reputable Electric Unicycles
| (what I switched to) use a supercap for emergency power and
| can pull you out of almost anything. FM is too
| cheap/stubborn/unknown to do the same.
|
| Furthermore, EUCs generally have a speaker and can make
| audible alerts when you approach the limit. OneWheel pushback
| can sometimes be really ambiguous, and can be missed. EUC
| apps also generally vibrate or something during these events.
| The same can't be said for FM.
|
| The big issue recently has been the OneWheel GT, a.k.a.
| Ground Torpedo. The foot sensor "ghosts" and causes the board
| to miss disengagement from the rider. This results in the
| board careening off (at 35mph) into whatever/whoever is in
| front of it. The last I saw was one having made a good bend
| in a wrought iron fence. FM has generally denied that it is a
| widespread issue. I suspect it's the Ground Torpedo that has
| cast so much attention towards FM.
|
| The last nail in the coffin (which has nothing to do with the
| CPSC issue) is that FM are aggressively anti-right-to-repair.
| The Ground Torpedo has volatile RAM in the Battery Management
| System that bricks the device if it loses power (due to self
| repair, or even complete discharge). The claim is that people
| are installing inferior batteries, the irony is that it is FM
| who install cheap crap.
|
| Don't buy a OneWheel. Fuck Future Motion.
| nomel wrote:
| I don't think this is what's happening, at all. Here's a deep
| dive into what's actually happening, which is people ignoring
| built in safety, overpowering the motors ability to keep them
| upright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI
|
| The motor is at maximum power and speed when this happens.
| ccakes wrote:
| Admittedly a marketing video but still a pretty cool deep-
| dive by the company - great watch!
| mcrady wrote:
| I had a onewheel that would occasionally just stop. The
| first time I was going at 15 mph and fortunately came away
| with only a few scrapes.
|
| I sent it in and they fixed it. This is their explanation
| which I don't know that I fully believe:
|
| _Our engineers completed the repairs on your board! They
| found that the power button had broken which led to damage
| to the controller circuit board. Both have been replaced
| under warranty for you. After your board passed our post-op
| testings it was picked up by FedEx!_
| chabons wrote:
| This video is directly produced by Onewheel's marketing
| department. It does certainly highlight one way user error
| can lead to injury on a Onewheel, but I don't think this is
| a credible refutation of the idea that there may be a flaw
| in the product.
| drcode wrote:
| There should be a place for adults to purchase equipment for
| dangerous hobbies, as long as the risks aren't covered up.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Agreed. If this is a problem inherent in the form factor, it
| should be advertised as such and we continue on, like we do
| with motorcycles, skateboards and so on.
| closetohome wrote:
| There are warnings on the box, in the manual, on a piece of
| cardboard you have to remove to ride the board, and laser
| marked on the board itself.
| opwieurposiu wrote:
| One issue with the skateboard style of e-wheel is that your feet
| are perpendicular to the direction of motion. This means when the
| wheel quits or you hit a big bump you will have to turn 90deg
| before you can run. The unicycle style where your feet are
| parallel to the direction of travel is much easier to "run-out"
| if the motor quits. The unicycle style also allows a larger wheel
| and larger batteries.
|
| I think reason the unicycle configuration is less popular is that
| it does not look as cool as the skateboard style. My wife calls
| mine the dorkmobile.
| themagician wrote:
| Skateboarders train themselves to run out in this situation
| pretty much immediately.
|
| With OneWheel you never really "train" to fall, instead you try
| to avoid it. So if you don't come from a skateboarding
| background you have no muscle memory.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Skateboarders train themselves to run out early in their
| practice, in front of the garage when they hit a pebble at
| <5mph. And get frequent future practice.
|
| I imagine if your first skateboard fall was at 15+mph after a
| month of complacency, skateboards would be attributed to a
| whole lot more concussions.
| thelopa wrote:
| It's much easier to run after bailing from a skateboard than
| to run after a nosedive. I've been casually longboarding for
| ~12 years, and I rode an electric longboard for my commute
| for ~3 years. Learning to run out after bailing (or at least
| slow yourself down for a few steps before you lose your
| footing) is an essential skill, and you learn to do it
| automatically. Having the right stance helps a lot to ensure
| that when the board stops you can handle it. Realizing you
| need to hop off is a luxury you don't always get.
|
| When my OneWheel nosedived, I was completely thrown for a
| loop. It stops abruptly (more so than a skateboard usually
| will), your stance is heavily restricted (due to the balance
| requirement), and the board messes with your trajectory and
| balance as it tips. It kind of throws you toward the pavement
| while a skateboard just throws you forwards.
|
| I love it, but it is definitely a vehicle you need to be
| careful with.
| rainsurf wrote:
| I strongly disagree with this recall.
|
| I own a Onewheel (XR) and have ridden nearly ~1,000 miles on it
| in a variety of conditions.
|
| I've only had one incident and it was entirely my fault (riding
| at night without proper lights and hit a pothole).
|
| The Onewheel definitely has a learning curve. Like most things in
| life if you are patient in learning it and respect the limits it
| is entirely safe.
|
| I think the safeguards Onewheel has implemented are completely
| adequate (primarily pushback).
|
| I think the big problem is people not wearing safety gear and/or
| maxing out the board (speed specifically) too early.
| themagician wrote:
| Have you ever had the power fail?
| rainsurf wrote:
| I assume you mean the board fully power off while riding?
|
| If yes, then no.
|
| It is possible to overload the motor by going over the
| maximum speed or going uphill by at too high of a speed but
| in that case the board will not actually power off.
|
| The only way the board may turn off is if is fully charged
| and you immediately ride it downhill (regenerative breaking).
| To protect the battery from overcharging the board it will
| turn off in that case but the app will warn you before that
| happens and for newer boards they have implemented the
| ability to charge to less than 100% if that is how you start
| your route.
| themagician wrote:
| It's possible that the board just fails for any number of
| reasons.
|
| I had a Boosted Board fail on me once. No idea why. It just
| powered off randomly while I was riding. Wasn't going
| downhill, wasn't full battery, wasn't a depleted battery.
| It was a bit scary to suddenly feel the power go out, but I
| was able to safely come to a stop. I was probably going
| about 15 MPH. I never figured out what happened. It turned
| right back on. This was the first time the board gave me
| pause. I kept riding for a few months until I did actually
| get hurt--100% on my own stupidity. I tried to go over some
| train tracks while leaning too much on the front trucks and
| was going fast, but not quite fast enough to cruise over
| them, and the wheels properly got stuck in the tracks, so I
| got to experience the fun of flying. Fortunately I was not
| critical injured, just extreme bruising. Helmet 100% saved
| my life though.
|
| This is the same kind of thing that can happen with a
| OneWheel--only no user error is needed for it to happen,
| merely a power failure. OneWheel either needs an integrated
| solution that allows you to roll out in the event of a
| power failure, or some kind of redundancy to ensure the
| probability of a power failure is effectively zero.
| Anything less leads to (preventable) death.
| rainsurf wrote:
| Sure, anything can fail.
|
| For these kind of "catastrophic failures" I think the
| important thing is the probability of the event.
|
| I am not aware of evidence showing a Onewheel can fail at
| an unacceptable rate.
| themagician wrote:
| The difference is that when most things fail (something
| that _will_ happen), they do not result in instant
| deceleration. When your iPhone experiences a power
| failure it usually just doesn 't turn back on. If a car
| experiences a power failure the brakes still work. Even
| if the brakes DO fail, you can still at least _try_ to
| come to a safe stop--and it 's possible you can.
|
| When the power fails on a OneWheel there is almost no
| possibility of a safe stop. You are getting launched.
| chabons wrote:
| I think the severity of the event is also important. A
| Onewheel requires power for stability (it's an inverse
| pendulum), and as a result does not fail-safe. An
| occasional motor failure on an e-bike would be a non-
| event, as it fails to a safe state. An occasional brake
| failure would be significant.
| slt2021 wrote:
| pushback is not adequate safeguard. Evidence is people's deaths
| and trauma.
|
| FutureMotion must equip all onewheels with safety wheels on
| both sides. Also known as Fangs bumper wheels.
|
| physics is no excuse for lousy engineering from FutureMotion
| and complete disregard of life threatening diving condition!
| unwind wrote:
| _Like most things in life if you are patient in learning it and
| respect the limits it is entirely safe._
|
| Hey, just like C programming! :)
|
| On a slightly more serious note, the point seems to be that
| people are not, and that can get them killed which is bad. If
| the thing is that the pushback notification is too easy to
| ignore/fail to notice, then that sounds fixable.
| scottcodie wrote:
| I have a Onewheel and I was ejected after it suddenly died even
| though the battery reported a half charge. The accident was not
| my fault and I was injured from it. I don't believe the product
| is as safe as you imply.
| mcrady wrote:
| It's great that your single unit hasn't failed but that's not
| much evidence against a recall.
|
| My onewheel at some point started to fail occasionally. The
| first time I was going at ~15 mph and fortunately I came away
| with only a few scrapes. After that, I reproduced at slower
| speeds and was able to not fall when it failed.
|
| I sent it in and they fixed it. This is their explanation which
| I don't know that I fully believe:
|
| _Our engineers completed the repairs on your board! They found
| that the power button had broken which led to damage to the
| controller circuit board. Both have been replaced under
| warranty for you. After your board passed our post-op testings
| it was picked up by FedEx!_
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| I love riding my onehwheel, but it is incredibly, stupidly,
| dangerous and the company DOES NOT CARE.
|
| Out of the box, mine was prone to runaway/ghosting where it would
| continue riding even if no one is on it. Kind of dangerous for a
| 25 pound device to go careening into the world.
|
| I have also had the nosedive thing happen. Yes, it happens when
| you are exceeding the power output of the board. No, it is not
| clear when it will happen, for me anyway. There is the pushback
| 'feature' where the front of the board is supposed to elevate,
| but as a 200 lb guy, it is pretty easy to miss. I suspect that
| smaller people might get a stronger feeling from it.
|
| In reality, the board should, at minimum, have an audible warning
| that you are nearing the power limit before sudden failute.
| latchkey wrote:
| Oh good. I live near the beach where a lot of people ride and
| I've seen a few people take nose dives on them when they suddenly
| stop for no reason.
| easygenes wrote:
| It seems lax of CPSC to issue such a damning statement without an
| accompanying comparative analysis to other board or motor sports.
| What's the injury rate vs other similar sports and how much of
| that is to blame from undereducated or reckless riders? Also,
| what's the rationale for the recall if the issue is people
| ignoring the obvious warnings the thing is giving that the
| battery is about to die? This doesn't seem to be a matter of
| system failures or inherent design flaws.
|
| Paramotoring is risky, but no one is chasing all paramotor
| manufacturers to recall their products. Similar for dirt bikes.
| It seems somehow these are getting singled out due to their
| uniqueness and being a product from a single company, not because
| there's a flaw in the design that makes them inordinately risky.
| mikestew wrote:
| The device tips its nose forward and dumps its rider on their
| head. There is no need to compare to anything if a device has
| this behavior. If the battery runs out, I expect the device to
| come to a stop, not throw me on my ass. I'm pretty sure even a
| paramotoring rig that runs out of fuel isn't going to
| immediately hurt me, and those things _fly_.
| aksss wrote:
| It does come to a stop. You get thrown on your ass because of
| the laws of motion.
|
| Your last statement - are you talking about using a fan with
| a parasail, which is a stable glider without power? If you
| want to use that analogy, this is more akin to taking too
| sharp a turn in a parasail, where the sail can't sustain and
| collapses in, causing you to fall like a rock because of the
| law of gravity.
|
| In a nosedive on a Onewheel, it also happens when the rider
| is asking too much, goes outside the performance envelope,
| and reaches a failure point. After the rider has been warned
| by the board that it's approaching that edge, physically and
| audibly.
| easygenes wrote:
| Ever tried to brake too hard on a motorcycle? You can get
| them to slip out in all sorts of bad ways or just plain flip
| pretty easily without finesse and skill.
|
| Certain sports just come with more risks. In some cases
| they're niche enough with the right communities that they
| self police or fly under the radar and escape regulation.
| Others wind up with restrictions and licensing requirements.
|
| In one wheel's case it's a very fast thing which requires an
| impeccable sense of balance and intense respect for it being
| something that can only keep you moving if it has power.
| Fangs (little wheels on the board edges) are an option for
| people that want more flexibility with it bottoming out, but
| they also lower your clearance so it's a trade off and you're
| still best off never letting the battery die.
| sometimeshuman wrote:
| It's the single point of failure with no preventative
| maintenance plan that makes it more dangerous. When the power
| suddenly cut-out on my "one wheel" (it was a different brand) I
| was instantly airborne.
|
| I can inspect my skateboard periodically to ensure the wheels
| don't fall off. If my dirtbike engine suddenly cut-out I still
| have momentum and brakes. But with a onewheel the wheel slips
| behind you and you are smashing the pavement when the
| electronics fail. For the record, I love my onewheel and
| installed _fangs_ in case the power cuts out unexpectedly.
| [deleted]
| 0_____0 wrote:
| One issue I've noticed with these new forms of electric wheeled
| transport (longboard, transverse and longitudinal one-wheelers)
| is that the people riding them often don't come from a sports
| background. They aren't "safe" devices exactly - it takes skill
| to pilot them, and when things inevitably go awry, it takes good
| reflexes to avoid damage.
|
| Novices to action sports often throw their arms out to catch
| themselves when they bail instead of rolling through the fall.
| They also don't know how to navigate obstacles via strategic
| weighting and unweighting of their implement.
|
| The energies involved are also substantial -- to put it bluntly,
| some of these things fuckin' rip, which is super fun, but also
| makes safety gear a good idea. You can take a lot of trauma and
| abrasion bailing at 25mph+, potentially life-changing or fatal in
| the worst cases. There's a reason why downhill longboarders and
| an increasing number of electric wheel riders wear a fullface and
| leathers.
| closetohome wrote:
| This is absolutely the case. When Onewheels were new they were
| mostly ridden by people who came from other boardsports. They
| knew the danger and treated them with the proper respect,
| including taking the time to learn how to properly operate
| them.
|
| In the last couple of years they've been wholesale adopted by
| techies who treat them like toys. The consequences are
| inevitable.
| fpgaminer wrote:
| I'm not sure this logic applies to the OneWheel. They aren't
| self balancing like a SegWay where the average person can get
| on and be fine zooming around within a couple minutes. The
| OneWheel only does about half the balancing work, you have to
| do the rest, and learning to ride one can take days or longer.
| During that time you'll fall many, many times. It also doesn't
| take much to eat shit on it even as a skilled rider (1). You'd
| have to be a complete moron not to anticipate it throwing you
| at any moment.
|
| Also the OneWheel, at least the Pint, can only go up to 15mph,
| and only on perfect conditions on the most aggressive settings.
|
| (1) I had several weeks under my belt before my last incident
| and still ate asphalt because the cutout in the sidewalk I was
| going down as a little steeper than I had thought. The board
| was angled down just a smidge too far because of this, caught a
| lip where the asphalt met the sidewalk, and "physics took
| control".
| girvo wrote:
| The amount of people I see on e-scooters with absolutely horrid
| body positioning, unaware they can use their body weight to
| stop much quicker scares me.
|
| That and the lack of helmets.
|
| I ride mine as safely as I can, and have 5000 kilometres done
| so far. I've had to drop the scooter and bail a couple of
| times, but mine maxes at out at 25km/h for good reason. Faster
| than that on tiny wheels is a horrible idea.
| deeblering4 wrote:
| Very true. If you've never been able to cruise on a skateboard,
| you might not realize how much damage an unexpected pebble or
| sidewalk crack will do.
|
| Riding is a constant balance of scanning the pavement for
| inconsistencies and making corrections to mitigate them. I
| don't know if that's even possible at 20+ mph.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| Your latter point is why I'm not really sold on electric
| longboards. Your control authority on a longboard is pretty
| low, and you need a lot of control authority to react to
| surprise obstacles/maintain stability after encountering one.
| Sure, DH longboarders exceed 25mph regularly, but they ride
| in semi-controlled environments (scout the descent for gravel
| etc before hitting it) and are exceptionally skilled.
|
| Putting random noobs on electric longboards is a recipe for
| road rash and broken bones. A few years ago, three people in
| my office got Boosted boards, and I believe we saw two
| instances of pretty bad road rash and a broken bone among
| them.
| butterguns wrote:
| I rode a Boosted Board for the best part of 1 year on the
| streets of Brooklyn. I ended up selling it; although I
| absolutely loved the experience, I knew one day I would rip
| my face off if I encountered even a small pothole.
| Cerium wrote:
| The danger is in the perception. It took me about 10 hours
| of dedicated practice (over a few weeks) before I felt
| comfortable using a longboard as a transportation device
| off of public roads - eg: on a closed campus. When I have
| seen people pickup an electric longboard they feel safe in
| a half hour, but obviously don't have any reflexes to back
| that up.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| Practically speaking yes, but this isn't an unsolvable
| problem. I ride Originals spring trucks, which use a cam
| and a spring instead of the urethane bushing in most skate
| trucks. It takes effort to keep them steady at speed for
| sure, but paired with soft wheels they feel like pure
| telepathy in terms of control authority.
| eagleinparadise wrote:
| My partner was hospitalized for nearly a week and had to have
| facial reconstructive surgery and nearly lost all her teeth
| after she got hit by someone on a scooter going 25mph while we
| were walking
|
| Be careful out there if you combine speed + unprotected mode of
| transportation
| 0_____0 wrote:
| I'm so sorry to hear that. I wish her well in her recovery.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Knowing how to fall is such an incredibly important life skill,
| it's baffling to watch people who never learned it.
|
| As a ski instructor, you could instantly tell from their first
| fall the kids who would get it and stick with it from the ones
| who would be sitting in the lodge pouting after an hour.
| perihelions wrote:
| - _" you could instantly tell from their first fall"_
|
| Mind elaborating what it is you see?
| comrh wrote:
| A good video that helped me fall better on skis after I
| broke my wrist (by falling incorrectly):
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0HCRMbRRA
| moooo99 wrote:
| This is ignored so often, it is scary. I have been longboarding
| pretty frequently and extensively up until 2 years ago. I've
| had my fair share of crashes and plenty of scars to serve as a
| reminder, but generally I always was a pretty safe and
| relatively skilled rider. But I also had multiple fun but
| stupidly risky experiences on my longboard, but no experiences
| comes close to the fear I felt when joining my friend on an
| electric longboard riding through fairly dense urban traffic.
|
| Having that experience, I don't understand how people seriously
| treat longboards (or similar modes that heavily depend on the
| riders ability to balance well) as a serious option in traffic.
| Bikes? Yes. E-Scooters? Probably yes. Longboards or Onewheels?
| Hell no.
| kube-system wrote:
| I broke a bone literally the very first time I tried one of
| these. It was a painful lesson.
| conductr wrote:
| I bailed at 8mph on an electric longboard and broke my elbow,
| severely sprained my shoulder and wrist. I even lost some
| rotation and dexterity in my hand. It's one of those _my arm is
| never going to be the same_ type injuries. I was 40 but skated
| and bmxed into my mid-20s and still felt pretty comfortable
| with my abilities on the ground (gave up on ramps long ago). I
| knew this was a risk given the speeds and even got an "off
| road" model (bigger wheels) to help make pebbles and such a
| non-issue. Even still, concrete is not flat, you'll eventually
| come across a missing cobblestone, etc. IMO it's a matter of
| when not if you'll take a spill.
|
| That said, I think the electric unicycles are much more
| dangerous. But at least they make it clear that it's not a toy.
| I passed on the Onewheel because of the random ejection
| complains I've seen online (which is likely fueling this
| regulation as it's been known for several years now). While
| wrecking was not fun, at least I did it to myself. I'd be
| really upset if I felt like the board did it to me.
| colechristensen wrote:
| Title does not match link. Nowhere does it say a recall was
| ordered, it does say the manufacturer is refusing to comply with
| what I assume is a suggestion for a voluntary recall. Does the
| CPSC have the authority to order unilateral recalls?
|
| I'm honestly considering buying one while I still can, they seem
| like fun and I'm just fine with the risks as long as there isn't
| some hidden failure or manufacturing defect.
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