[HN Gopher] Tell HN: Facebook Messenger is testing in-call video...
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       Tell HN: Facebook Messenger is testing in-call video ads
        
       A few minutes ago I was calling my family, and had a 15-second
       video ad after they picked up. According to them, they saw the ad
       too.  Do you think this is a case of A/B Testing, or are the ads
       here to say?  Picture for reference: https://imgur.com/a/ddddPAm
        
       Author : dindindin
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2022-11-16 20:17 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
       | MandieD wrote:
       | Some chipper, go-getter PM forgot that not every call is a light,
       | happy call.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | That's a f no from me dawg. They can add this to every video
       | service out there and I'll happily set up a SIP PBX. Not
       | happening.
        
       | GoodJokes wrote:
        
       | kevinsundar wrote:
       | Assuming this is true, who comes up with ideas like this?
       | 
       | If I was an advertiser do I really want to pay to have my ad
       | (video nonetheless) shown to someone while they're actively
       | trying to have a phone call? As a user, I'd just be pissed off at
       | the advertiser plus im not looking at my screen when talking.
       | 
       | I guess technically this increases ad "views" metrics. But
       | advertisers are just wasting their money. I hope the fact that
       | Meta is testing changes like this causes advertisers to re-
       | evaluate the risks of using FB advertising.
        
         | 3D30497420 wrote:
         | A PM who's been given a metric goal and has their performance
         | staked on hitting goal with nothing to counter-balance their
         | push to hit that goal.
         | 
         | I recall a presentation someone gave awhile back which said
         | something like, "Give a PM a goal that their job depends on and
         | they will burn the company down to hit it."
         | 
         | I was a PM at a FAANG in a former life, so I can understand the
         | pressure. Thankfully, I never did anything like this, partly
         | because my team had a strong focus on customer experience but
         | also because I cared less about the financial/promotion
         | incentives.
        
         | junga wrote:
         | Ads are often (if not always) shown to users who are actively
         | trying to do something else. Like watching a video or reading
         | an article. Why should this be different?
        
           | nyokodo wrote:
           | > video or reading an article
           | 
           | Setting aside that people load their browsers up with ad
           | blockers to avoid those too, they're also async experiences
           | that have no real-time social dynamics involved with them.
           | Video calls are interpersonal and interruptions are highly
           | problematic.
        
           | kevinsundar wrote:
           | Yes, but in the cases you mentioned the user is interacting
           | with the same pane of glass. In this case, the user's
           | interaction is voice, not the screen.
           | 
           | Also not to mention that calls are very private. And the
           | impression it gives to consumers that their call is being
           | used for ads or even tracking.
        
         | burkaman wrote:
         | I am certain the advertisers love this. All ads are intrusive,
         | and generally the more intrusive the more expensive.
        
           | iceburgcrm wrote:
           | The call to action piece is missing because even if you see
           | something you want to click-on you will avoid it because you
           | have a live call
        
           | kevinsundar wrote:
           | Yes but intruding into private audio calls is something users
           | would be heavily suspicious of. It's not hard to imagine a
           | non technical users thinking "OMG they're showing me ads
           | based on my calls". Lots of people already think this.
           | 
           | Also its one thing to show an expensive ad on a screen that
           | the user is actively looking at (that might actually be
           | effective), and another to show an expensive ad on a screen
           | that 95% of users are not looking at.
        
             | soco wrote:
             | But the ads they show _will_ be based on your calls right?
             | Because, how else...
        
               | mcculley wrote:
               | Why would they have to be based on the calls? Facebook
               | already knows a lot about the participants.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Has Facebook ever indicated they're capable of a "yep,
               | we've got enough info on everyone, we're good" attitude?
        
             | api wrote:
             | If true this will end up selecting for less technical
             | people, which will mean it'll turn into an ad feed full of
             | quack garbage that is aggressively marketed to less
             | technical people.
        
         | gotfork wrote:
         | This looks like the layout for the "Watch Together" feature:
         | https://messengernews.fb.com/2020/09/14/feel-together-messen...
         | 
         | There's a bottom section that slides up and if a user clicks on
         | one of the videos it will play for all participants. If anyone
         | sees this and didn't intentionally click on one of those videos
         | please file a bug!
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | I wonder what would happen if there would be more "Karens",
         | that would complain about this?
         | 
         | Looking at the screenshot, let's say it's a cat food ad... if
         | that "Karen" would call the cat food company and complain that
         | their ad wasted her time with an old relative, or whatever, and
         | in turn waste that companies time... and multiply that with
         | 10.000 karens,... but it needs people to actually be proactive
         | about stuff like that.
        
           | underyx wrote:
           | I don't understand why you would choose to say "karens"
           | instead of "people".
        
             | ajsnigrutin wrote:
             | Because "Karens" are usually the ones who complain to
             | managers about stuff like this. "People" just say "meh" or
             | complain to a friend or two, and a "Karen" will go through
             | a whole line of managers and complain to all of them.
        
       | saos wrote:
       | Is this real?
        
       | bitcharmer wrote:
       | I bet this is some MBA's idea
        
         | saos wrote:
         | I won't be surprised. Completely devoid of creativity and ideas
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Meta Brand Assassin?
        
       | aussieshibe wrote:
       | I suspect this will be the final straw for many users, myself
       | included.
        
       | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
       | Bonus points if the ad preceding your next conversation is
       | uncannily relevant to what you were talking about last time.
        
       | i_have_an_idea wrote:
       | If it's true, it's a hilariously bad decision
        
         | ugjka wrote:
         | Coming to Whatsapp soon
        
           | thombat wrote:
           | And coming to Skype or Zoom or WebEx or some other
           | competitor: a notification that "Unlike some of our
           | competitors, we promise never to intrude into your calls"
        
           | zelphirkalt wrote:
           | We will never merge data from WA and FB!
        
       | whimsicalism wrote:
       | This makes 0 sense to me. There's literally no lock in with FB
       | messenger.
       | 
       | The second I get a video ad - that's it for FB video calls for
       | me.
        
         | apetresc wrote:
         | What do you mean? It's a messaging platform with built-in
         | integration to the largest social network in the world. I
         | couldn't possibly imagine a more textbook example of lock-in.
        
           | otikik wrote:
           | because it happens on a mobile phone, which already has a
           | built-in way to do it.
           | 
           | "Hey mum, I decided to call you because that video ad
           | bullshit is bullshit".
        
             | ajsnigrutin wrote:
             | But that doesn't include video part of a videocall and in
             | many cases (internationall calls) cost quite a lot still.
             | 
             | The main push from sms/mms and calling to messaging
             | services was the free price and additional features.
        
               | monsieurgaufre wrote:
               | Facetime (and/or Duo) will work exactly the same. Both
               | are free.
        
               | ajsnigrutin wrote:
               | Yes, but you need an apple device for facetime, and how
               | many people actually have Duo installed?
               | 
               | If your grandma has facebook and all her friends have
               | facebook and all your friends have facebook... how many
               | of them can you move over to Duo (r signal, telegram,
               | matrix,...)?
        
       | ismokedoinks wrote:
       | lol
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | Wait, what? On a _private_ person to person call? Curious if this
       | will be a thing on cell phone calls next. This seems like a great
       | way to kill off a platform.
        
       | srveale wrote:
       | We use fb for the family calls. This will add years to the
       | project of being able to get grandma on a call without difficulty
       | and I'm not sure she has that kind of time. I'm only half joking.
        
       | jsemrau wrote:
       | Interesting find. One might argue that ad-tech went too far on
       | this one if they are tracking conversations to place the "right"
       | ads. Some random thoughts: Would the ad be different for caller /
       | recipient? Why would an advertiser place their ad there while
       | there are "safer" places on Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Disney, etc?
       | Are ad-tech business models at the end of the innovation cycle?
       | What's coming next?
        
       | theropost wrote:
       | Is it going to display ads based on the conversation of the call?
        
       | tomschwiha wrote:
       | Its a win-win. Less bandwith costs -> cost reduction. Higher
       | revenue. More, more money.
       | 
       | Sounds like someone deserves a promotion. Just look at the right
       | numbers for your arguments.
        
       | TheLoafOfBread wrote:
       | I need to say, that I would probably lost my marbles if video
       | call application would do anything like that.
        
       | rejectfinite wrote:
       | Time to move the family chat to Telegram.
        
         | woofwoofwoof wrote:
         | It is slowly adding ads as well. Currently in the channels
         | only, but just give them some time.
        
       | barbs wrote:
       | Seems like a terrible idea. As others have pointed out, there are
       | plenty of alternative platforms at hand that you can use for
       | videochats, and I can't think of any that show intrusive video
       | ads like this.
       | 
       | In the past, I've used Jitsi for when Facebook Messenger wasn't
       | working for whatever reason.
        
       | tapoxi wrote:
       | Look I get that people love to shit on Signal because its not
       | perfect, but this is the main reason I use it to call and message
       | my family. It's a viable alternative to insane shit like
       | Messenger and you should consider having your family members
       | install it. It's incredibly easy to use.
       | 
       | Cue someone below me talking about how they set up a Matrix or
       | XMPP server for grandma and its 'so easy' once you get the
       | presence handshake working and if you're using a specific set of
       | clients that support the right features.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | Is there a reason Signal couldn't put ads in their video call
         | product?
        
           | woofwoofwoof wrote:
           | I believe it is non-profit currently, so making money is not
           | their top priority.
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | Non-profits still have to stay in business. My health
             | insurer is "non-profit".
        
             | sschueller wrote:
             | So why did they think they had to do the crypto token
             | thing?
        
           | shaldengeki wrote:
           | This is an interesting question. Doesn't Signal rather
           | famously not track anything about who you're talking to?
           | Reputational damage to Signal's brand aside, I expect it'd be
           | hard to sell advertisers on a black hole.
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | You can have advertisements without tracking. See the
             | original TV ads.
        
       | theCrowing wrote:
       | that's amazing... there are people in a meeting room at facebook
       | believing this will increase revenue and the product owner of fb
       | messenger said yes. lol
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | Just tells you a lot a lot what to expect in Metaverse and the
         | experience there.
        
         | ergonaught wrote:
         | Because consumers have a stellar track record of rejecting
         | user-hostile decisions?
         | 
         | May as well try it. People are swallowing everything else.
        
         | victordmor wrote:
         | I don't think that said PO said yes naturally, I think he said
         | yes forcefully.
        
         | otikik wrote:
         | If the meeting was virtual they could "enjoy" being interrupted
         | by their own adds. Dogfooding!
        
       | ravenstine wrote:
       | _TECH LEAD: We tested in-call video ads and engagement went up._
       | 
       |  _CMO: Excellent! Outstanding!_
       | 
       |  _TECH LEAD: It went up on the "End Call" button, and somewhat on
       | the "Delete Account" button._
       | 
       |  _CMO: ... So... you 're saying I'll be getting a pay raise at
       | the end of Q4?_
       | 
       |  _TECH LEAD: That was never in question._
        
       | Yhippa wrote:
       | This is interesting. It sounds like Facebook is potentially
       | looking under the couches, so-to-speak, for spare change by doing
       | this. I also wonder if other comms apps are going to be doing
       | this too?
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | Zoom has the audacity to show me (a paying Zoom subscriber) ads
         | in the UI and at the end of calls. It's infuriating, even more
         | so since it's ads for nothing I'd ever consider using.
         | 
         | In UI: https://cs.joshstrange.com/zTpdlC
         | 
         | End of call, always on top, popup:
         | https://cs.joshstrange.com/BizVwE
         | 
         | EDIT: I get that it's less offensive since it's a "first-party
         | ad"/"upsell" and I could forgive the banner in the app (even
         | though dismissing it only makes it go away for like 24 hours,
         | if that) but the popups post-meeting drive me bonkers. To the
         | point I've considered seeing if I can write some code to watch
         | for that window and kill it right away.
        
           | dragonsky67 wrote:
           | I don't see those things any more even when they do pop up.
           | It's amazing how quickly you get trained to simply ignore
           | advertising.
        
           | yakattak wrote:
           | This is annoying but advertisements tailored to the product
           | you're using aren't nearly as offensive to just a random ad
           | for some cheap wish.com product, interrupting your video
           | call.
        
             | TheLoafOfBread wrote:
             | Free customer? I get it.
             | 
             | Paying customer? That's big no no
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Probably 80% of the SaaS apps I've run into have "want
               | this feature? upgrade your plan!" upsells scattered
               | around. It's clearly not a big no no.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | First-party upsells aren't at all uncommon in paid products.
           | That's _very_ different than what Facebook is doing.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-16 23:02 UTC)