[HN Gopher] Israel deploys remote controlled robotic guns in Wes...
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Israel deploys remote controlled robotic guns in West Bank
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 32 points
Date : 2022-11-16 19:51 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (techxplore.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (techxplore.com)
| sfusato wrote:
| _The weapons, perched over a crowded Palestinian refugee camp and
| in a flashpoint West Bank city, use artificial intelligence to
| track targets._
|
| AI + guns, what could go wrong?! Towards the end of the article,
| they make it sound like it's for the good of the oppressed. I
| guess we have a good contender for a future Nobel peace prize
| award.
|
| _It also said the technology allows soldiers to target "less
| sensitive" areas of the body to minimize harm and avoid shooting
| bystanders.
|
| "In this way, the system reduces the likelihood of inaccurate
| fire," it said._
| PradeetPatel wrote:
| >Towards the end of the article, they make it sound like it's
| for the good of the oppressed. I guess we have a good contender
| for a future Nobel peace prize award.
|
| Isn't that the point a well written PR article? To inform and
| to persuade?
|
| As someone who have done some reputation management work with
| the defense sector and firms that offer private peacekeeping
| solutions, it is crucial to shape the narrative early to avoid
| misunderstanding from the general public.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| You mean to avoid actual understanding? I think everyone
| intuitively understands what ai guns leads to. Wars that the
| gov can do without its public caring so much, and govs that
| can't be toppled by civil unrest (read the military/cops
| switching sides)
| tsol wrote:
| >to avoid misunderstanding
|
| Whether it's misunderstanding or proper understanding, is up
| for debate.
| z3c0 wrote:
| > someone who have done some reputation management work with
| the defense sector and firms that offer private peacekeeping
| solutions
|
| I'm inclined to believe you, as that's a rather... uh...
| _colorful_ way to say "propagandist".
| realgeniushere wrote:
| Big difference between automated tracking and automatic firing.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| The difference is a few lines of code
| glonq wrote:
| TBF the difference between many does-good-things and does-
| bad-things systems is a few lines of code.
|
| A few lines of code can turn an X-Ray machine into a death
| machine. A drivers assistance system into a kamikaze car.
| An industrial automation system into a bomb.
| hirsin wrote:
| Those things are not built for the express purpose of
| killing people. There is no manual button on the outside
| of the xray marked "kill patient" that's at risk of being
| automated away. No "aim for pedestrians" button in the
| Tesla that a developer will choose to finish implementing
| in code.
|
| Like, yes, this is a thing that could happen, and has, we
| call them bugs. But the companies building those products
| aren't in the business of making that outcome occur.
| These developers and companies are in the business of
| helping make people die and I'd bet significant sums this
| is already tracked in a backlog issue or behind a //.
| realgeniushere wrote:
| So what is your point? Why is automated target tracking
| bad exactly? I'm not saying it's not, but I don't see how
| your argument is different from "all weapons bad".
| hirsin wrote:
| The point is that "you can invert the rewards signal on a
| Tesla and turn it into a people mower" isn't exactly a
| dunk on the point above them. We're not worried about
| Tesla having (someday accurate) people detection because
| we're not worried about them using it to kill people more
| efficiently. Indeed, generally people want Tesla to get
| very good at that!
|
| So automated tracking is bad when attached to a gun
| because it more easily enables the rest of the concerns
| laid out in the thread. It's not some hobbyist "paintball
| the squirells in my yard", but a government-purchased,
| corporation built project with an explicit, obvious goal
| in mind. Disregarding that because many other things
| _could_ be used for bad with a couple lines of code is
| not the right call, imo.
| karmakaze wrote:
| Hope fail-safes get thought out more than this one[0].
|
| [0] https://youtube.com/watch/Ip7GGf2_b6Y
| thinkmcfly wrote:
| This simply isn't the case for the X-ray machines you'd
| find in a hospital or at a dentist's office. Industrial
| equipment though? Sure
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Sounds good to me. Soldiers controlling the thing can make
| smarter decisions if they aren't in imminent danger.
|
| If you are standing post and perceive a threat you cannot
| afford to wait and see. This is just a piece of equipment and
| ROEs can hopefully be more relaxed.
| throw827474737 wrote:
| Oh wow..
|
| double wow to people seeing it like that.
|
| :(
| hirundo wrote:
| > But he said the absence of international norms for "killer
| robots" is problematic.
|
| It's not the absence of a norm that's a problem, it's the
| presence of the norm that the use of drones doesn't raise much
| more resistance than the use of conventional weapons. Their use
| is now wide and routine, and protests are rare and contained.
|
| Calling them "robots" is a misleading attempt to make this a
| novelty as it implies autonomy.
|
| Given that these are remote weapons, what is a reasonably
| possible norm to strive for? That the trigger puller should be at
| the same place as the weapon? That would make a great number of
| weapon systems unacceptable, which would be wonderful, but not
| likely to succeed.
| sam_goody wrote:
| > When young Palestinian protesters pour into the streets
| hurling stones and firebombs at Israeli soldiers, the robotic
| weapons unleash tear gas...
|
| Everyone would gain from less violence. But its kind of hard to
| convince the soldiers to give up their weapons in such a
| setting.
|
| Articles like this blame the victims, even though any other
| country would react far more drastically.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| This doesn't seem like particularly inaccessible technology.
| It seems like weapons similar to this could just as easily be
| used by asymmetric groups like Hamas.
| say_it_as_it_is wrote:
| Chicago needs these.
| consumer451 wrote:
| I was thinking all US classrooms.
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