[HN Gopher] Canada police charge Hydro-Quebec employee with Chin...
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       Canada police charge Hydro-Quebec employee with China espionage
        
       Author : boringg
       Score  : 112 points
       Date   : 2022-11-15 15:12 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | 71a54xd wrote:
       | The issue with this kind of public enforcement is China quite
       | frankly could care less about the plaintiff. They got the info
       | they required, the chinese way of thinking is that these foreign
       | assets are largely expendable and easily replacible.
       | 
       | Sanctions and other forms of proactive and offensive protection
       | of these assets is the only way to curb this kind of espionage.
       | This kind of counter-intelligence and sabotage was actually one
       | of the only things Reagan got right during his presidency.
       | 
       | Something worth reading is the operation, in which the US
       | realized Russians were attempting to steal information to
       | automate operation of a newly constructed natural gas pipeline
       | through Siberia. Ironically, the US contacted the Canadians and
       | found a willing oil and gas engineering firm to take the bait and
       | provide "functional" code and licensed tech to the soviets. The
       | soviets were smitten with what they thought was genuine
       | information and tech - however, shortly after one of the largest
       | non-nuclear explosions in history occurred when the pipeline
       | failed in the middle of Siberia. (take what you will from this in
       | regards to the recent Nordstream explosion) The gist here - is
       | you have to erode trust in data stolen from your country to a
       | deadly extent. As soon as China realizes that 40% of their stolen
       | "intelligence" is useless or something designed to fail...
       | they'll think twice about stealing. Also, just make it harder for
       | people with a clear past linking them to the PLA to you know...
       | run important infrastructure.
       | 
       | Source here -
       | https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/r...
        
       | UI_at_80x24 wrote:
       | What kind of IP can a hydro-electric dam have that isn't "general
       | knowledge" at this point? *Edit: Batteries used for Electric
       | Vehicles*
       | 
       | Also for some context, related to China-Canada relations; there
       | has been rumour that China has operated state run (semi-secretly)
       | policing departments in BC and other areas of Canada and has
       | forced people to return to China that were legally in Canada. AND
       | Canada has recently been engaged in a trade mission specifically
       | with South East Asian countries (bypassing China) for
       | textiles/garment production. (I have no idea what Canada is
       | offering in return for cheaper clothes.) {Probably some kind of
       | natural resource.}
        
         | bouchard wrote:
         | He didn't work on dams...
         | 
         | > A company statement said that Mr Wang worked on batteries for
         | the utility's Center of Excellence in Transportation
         | Electrification and Energy Storage (CETEES), which develops
         | technology for electric vehicles.
        
       | manuelabeledo wrote:
       | What an odd case.
       | 
       | > RCMP Inspector David Beaudoin said that Mr Wang used his
       | position at Hydro-Quebec to conduct research for a Chinese
       | university and other researcher centres. He allegedly published
       | scientific articles and submitted patents in "association [with]
       | this foreign actor rather than with Hydro-Quebec", he said.
       | 
       | So the guy _very_ publicly used privileged information to benefit
       | a third party, without his current employer 's consent.
       | 
       | Doesn't sound much like state sponsored espionage, to be honest.
        
         | jcrawfordor wrote:
         | This is a pretty common strategy used by China, and I think
         | they leverage the fact that it is so "above board" and
         | transparent in some ways to their advantage... it's easier to
         | recruit scientists and engineers into espionage by doing so in
         | an apparently legitimate way with the sponsorship of an
         | academic institution. I'm not sure if it's directly applicable
         | to this case but the whole thing in general is known as the
         | Thousand Talents Plan and is well-publicized in China... but
         | conflicts with intellectual property and espionage policy in
         | many other countries and was a perennial source of
         | embarrassment for US universities (when their faculty were
         | found to be on the Chinese payroll and publishing their work
         | there) five years ago or so. People are thought to often be
         | recruited into the program while attending academic events in
         | China, which also gives it a degree of normalcy... it's
         | presented as academic collaboration, not espionage.
         | 
         | My point is that "doesn't sound much like state sponsored
         | espionage" is probably exactly why Thousand Talents found so
         | much success for a while. It has a veneer of legitimacy and
         | stays pretty far away from anything that has the "cloak and
         | dagger" appearance people associate with espionage.
        
         | prasadjoglekar wrote:
         | "Chinese University" is an arm of the Chinese state and
         | potentially also of the CCP. It's not a purely commercial third
         | party.
        
           | manuelabeledo wrote:
           | Right, but why would anyone file a patent on stolen IP? It
           | would both defeat the purpose of stealing the IP in the first
           | place, and put a target on their backs.
        
             | lazyeye wrote:
             | Picking flowers, making honey
             | 
             | https://www.aspi.org.au/report/picking-flowers-making-honey
        
             | AMerrit wrote:
             | This sounds more like a case of an ambitious dummy being
             | prodded into being a stooge that leaks IP rather than
             | purposeful espionage on his part.
        
             | ISL wrote:
             | If it provides cover for another entity, it could have
             | value.
             | 
             | "Hey, we licensed that patent from $(thief). We thought it
             | was legit! We're innocent. All the liability for our
             | infringement falls on $(thief)."
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | lizardactivist wrote:
       | Every time someone from China does something bad or just without
       | thinking it through, it's painted as communist party espionage.
       | 
       | Our western media and governments really want us to see yellow
       | spies everywhere.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | But it's _not_ just people randomly doing these things. These
         | people are targeted by official CCP programs which intend to do
         | exactly what they 're doing. The targets are often useful
         | idiots, but that doesn't make it not espionage.
        
           | Kukumber wrote:
           | how is that different from gov/military backed US companies
           | who steal talents from foreign countries?
           | 
           | by being passive racist, the US unveils to the world what
           | they are doing for ages, and when it's others it's painted as
           | evil
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | Yes, spying is practiced worldwide by just about everyone.
             | I never claimed otherwise. But that doesn't mean it's
             | tolerated. Every country wants to spy _and_ not be spied
             | on.
        
             | SlickNixon wrote:
             | Is this a boilerplate response to someone bringing up the
             | Thousand Talents program? Because "steal[ing] talents"
             | doesn't make much sense in an English language context
             | outside of Space Jam.
        
               | Kukumber wrote:
               | You'll be surprised if Aliens speak english
        
               | SlickNixon wrote:
               | You got me there.
        
       | Elv13 wrote:
       | I think one important bit of context that may be missing here is
       | that Hydro Quebec is technically also a public research
       | (graduate) university. You can get PhD there when working on
       | these projects (how this is implemented is confusing, but it's a
       | de-facto stand alone university). It's not "just" a power
       | company. It's also one of the larger income/export source for the
       | the government.
        
       | tokai wrote:
       | Assuming that the Mr Wang is Yue-Sheng Wang; Their suspect has
       | published 59 articles according to Scopus and 31 are without
       | affiliation to Hydro-Quebec. I would hope that publications alone
       | would be a problem, but maybe they point at possible sharing of
       | data etc. in a way that could fall under espionage - who knows.
       | 
       | I work with documenting scientific publications and I have seen a
       | lot of wonky affiliations used. Its surprising who many
       | researchers don't understand their own affiliations correctly, at
       | least as seen by the institutions that pay their wages. That
       | being using co-authors affiliation, imagined or misunderstood
       | affiliations (yeah our informal work-group is definitely a
       | department!), or even something more obscure (A professor
       | publishing his whole career from university X even though he
       | hasn't been affiliated since his postdoc 25 years ago. Due to
       | pride I guess?). Another issue is co-authors not knowing each
       | others True(r) affiliation, and ending up getting the wrong
       | addresses in the final publication. And so on and so on. Some
       | researchers seem to feel such details are trivial.
       | 
       | Just another example how bureaucratic control butts heads with
       | the actually way scientists work.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-15 23:02 UTC)