[HN Gopher] Ask HN: What Is a COO?
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       Ask HN: What Is a COO?
        
       Throughout my career I've held exclusively engineering positions.
       However, I've noticed the parts of my work I enjoy the most aren't
       necessarily the technical challenges, but instead improvements to
       process and productivity.  My favourite books are 'Getting Things
       Done' [0], and 'Deep Work' [1]. I also consistently try to find
       improvements to communication, requirement clarification, and
       decision making.  Is this mindset aligned with what would be
       expected from a COO? I know virtually nothing about the position
       apart from a line that stuck with me (paraphrased): 'A COO is
       similar to a CEO, where they have to do the same amount of work but
       don't get to make any of the decisions'.  Do you have any insights
       or books/article recommendations for what the role of COO looks
       like? It would be greatly appreciated  [0]
       https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1633.Getting_Things_Done [1]
       https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25744928-deep-work
        
       Author : simonhfrost
       Score  : 96 points
       Date   : 2022-11-15 12:53 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
       | walthamstow wrote:
       | I like the line from Succession:
       | 
       | `I'm the Chief Operating Officer: if it operates, I chief it`
        
       | indymike wrote:
       | In short, the best analogy I have for COO is from the Navy. The
       | Captain is the CEO. The Executive Officer is the COO.
        
       | mathattack wrote:
       | It's a bunch of functions that the CEO doesn't want to
       | micromanage. At many tech companies it's sales and support but
       | not Tech Ops. At retailers it can be running the supply chain. At
       | some places it's facilities.
        
       | sc90 wrote:
       | If you've watched The Wire, Stringer's the COO. "And you see
       | this? It's the Queen. She smart, she fierce. She move anyway she
       | want as far as she want. And she, is the go get shit done piece.
       | Remind me of Stringer."
        
         | pighive wrote:
         | what is Prop Joe?
        
           | sc90 wrote:
           | Prop Joe's a King like Avon, except for the other side.
        
             | kshahkshah wrote:
             | No no, Prop Joe is a member of the board
        
         | drexlspivey wrote:
         | What's Slim Charles' title?
        
           | reydequeso wrote:
           | He became COO.
        
           | sc90 wrote:
           | Slim is probably a Craig Federighi or Eddy Cue back when
           | Steve Jobs was at the helm. VPs who report directly to the
           | CEO.
        
           | kgrin wrote:
           | General Counsel
        
       | csdvrx wrote:
       | Like Saul Tigh on Galactica: the XO
        
       | acqbu wrote:
       | let dog = 'dog'; let food = 'scraps'
       | 
       | console.log(`${dog} gets ${food}`);
       | 
       | dog = 'coo'; food = 'what ceo doesn\'t wanna do';
       | 
       | console.log(`${dog} gets ${food}`);
        
       | athorax wrote:
       | I don't think there is any one specific answer. It is going to
       | vary a lot company to company and will depend highly on the CEO.
       | Places I have worked, the CEO & COO operate very closely together
       | with the COO usually focusing more on the internal company
       | functions while the CEO focused more externally.
        
       | tobr wrote:
       | > Is this mindset aligned with what would be expected from a COO?
       | I know virtually nothing about the position apart from a line
       | that stuck with me...
       | 
       | I know even less. What's the O?
        
         | mattweinberg wrote:
         | Chief _Operating_ Officer
        
       | NikolaNovak wrote:
       | "Operations" and COO, in my ignorance, I find extremely domain-
       | specific.
       | 
       | I think of Operations from technology perspective - datacentre
       | and servers and SRE and ITIL; processes like release / incident /
       | problem management.
       | 
       | In many other businesses, Operations/COO is much more focused on
       | business finances, supply chain, paying the bills, accounting,
       | etc.
       | 
       | From that experience, while I too would love to have better
       | understanding and will read this thread eagerly, I think we all
       | need to be careful to "domain scope manage" it.
        
       | simmschi wrote:
       | In my experience the CEO - COO relationship is similar to that
       | between a CTO and a VP Engineering.
       | 
       | If you are the CTO and have a VPE, the VP typically tends to
       | focus inwards, while the CTO has the luxury to care more about
       | outwards topics - strategy, vision, investor relations, business
       | relations etc. The VP focuses on processes, projects, coding
       | standards etc.
       | 
       | It's similar between CEO and COO. If you have a COO you trust, as
       | a CEO you can focus much more outwards about high level issues
       | (strategy, investors, business partners etc). The COO makes sure
       | that the business runs smoothly (hiring, processes, quality of
       | service etc).
        
         | conductr wrote:
         | I work in C suite for non tech/start up industry, more
         | traditional setting, and could not have explained better than
         | this.
         | 
         | It's mostly a bifurcation of strategy and execution. The CEO is
         | forward looking and COO is focused on the day to day. Making
         | sure all teams and processes are running smoothly. Helping
         | determine which investments have a high priority, etc. The COO
         | is still very involved in the strategy as well. Because they'll
         | eventually need to operationalize it.
         | 
         | Pretty much every C level role that gets added as a company
         | grows is to pull away some domain specific stuff from the CEO.
         | The CEO could do it all in theory. COO is usually one of the
         | later additions to the C suite during growth as it usually has
         | a lot of overlap with CEO.
        
         | davidhunter wrote:
         | Some people would say that the VPE has the luxury to care more
         | about inwards topics whilst the CTO tends to focus outwards.
         | 
         | Different strokes for different folks.
        
         | DebtDeflation wrote:
         | The inward focus aspect is a good way to look at it. Most of
         | these titles date back to the manufacturing days, when the COO
         | was the guy responsible for production, for running the
         | factories (all of the plant managers reported up to him). The
         | CEO had a much broader purview (not only production, but also
         | sales, finance, etc) and perhaps more importantly being the
         | external face of the company to the market and to shareholders.
        
         | SkyMarshal wrote:
         | _> while the CTO has the luxury to care more about outwards
         | topics - strategy, vision, investor relations, business
         | relations etc._
         | 
         | Odd, those are all CEO responsibilities, not CTO ones.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | Not in the realm of technology. I.e. what is our strategic
           | _technical_ vision, what do I have to prepare for investors
           | to explain our _technical_ strategy, etc.
        
           | simmschi wrote:
           | Yeah sorry, I meant this of course in the context of a tech
           | organization.
           | 
           | As a CTO you will spend time preparing board meetings, OKR
           | discussions, be part of strategy offsites, handle audits,
           | have stakeholder meetings (CPO, COO, HR), have a part in
           | Allhands, talk to vendors and business partners and of course
           | handle all internal crisises that are escalated to you.
           | 
           | It's definitely a more messy and political work environment
           | that you should take into account when leaving the IC track.
        
       | D13Fd wrote:
       | The CEO is a leader, the COO is a manager. The CEO chooses what
       | to do, the COO gets it done.
        
       | Ylmaz wrote:
       | I never liked 'Getting Things Done'. It's the most repetitive
       | book I've ever read. It could be a 5-page article, but David
       | Allen decided to write a ~300 pages book by repeating the same
       | idea over and over.
        
         | beermonster wrote:
         | What do you think this same idea is?
        
         | Matticus_Rex wrote:
         | I'm a pretty faithful GTD user, and I love the book, because I
         | need to hear some of those things a hundred times, but also
         | because there's nuance to the method beyond a few mechanical
         | basics. I've met a lot of people who say they do GTD and
         | haven't read the book or only skimmed it, and invariably they
         | seem to basically just use to-do lists. That's a good first
         | step, but it's a terrible place to stop.
        
       | stiiv wrote:
       | In my experience (6 companies, variety of verticals), COO
       | responsibilities really vary. I haven't encountered a COO who
       | wasn't interested in improving performance, but I also haven't
       | encountered a COO whose role could be described exclusively as
       | "business optimizer."
       | 
       | On the other hand, I've seen BAs and PMs do the kinds of things
       | you describe, along with plenty of engineers. I've also seen
       | people doing those things who have vague made-up titles unique to
       | the org. In some cases, they were hired for something else, but
       | then ended up what they were good at, and instead advised company
       | leadership.
       | 
       | All of which is to say: if you're looking for a career where you
       | can do more of that kind of thing, you might do better focusing
       | on organizations rather than titles.
        
       | a_humean wrote:
       | Depending upon the size of the firm and the nature of the CEO/COO
       | relationship, they can be anything.
       | 
       | The scope of their job can be everything from ensuring that the
       | office windows get cleaned regularly, to working on a
       | hyperspecific project as a fixer, to overseeing large parts of
       | business strategy that the CEO does not have time or expertise
       | for, to effectively waiting/in training to be a successor to the
       | CEO.
        
       | andylynch wrote:
       | As a rough parallel, think Game of Thrones - the COO is the Hand
       | of the King. As in the novels, specifics vary widely depending on
       | those involved and how much/what the leader wants to delegate.
        
         | logikblok wrote:
         | Reminded me of some of the excellent lore videos.
         | 
         | "What the king dreams, the hand of the king builds...or so say
         | the kings the hands and the lords who wish to be hands."
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59F_ntoGHDI
        
         | marcusverus wrote:
         | "The king eats, and the hand takes the shit."
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | The COO does the work so the CEO can be the mascot.
        
       | mahmoudimus wrote:
       | Jaime Lannister, the character portrayed by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau
       | in the hit show Game of Thrones, said it best:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WawVLChRYzg.
       | 
       | All kidding aside though, a COO is a role that basically
       | compensates for the operational day-to-day part of the business
       | (think budgeting, planning, etc.) as opposed to the strategic
       | side (the direction the company is heading to).
        
         | dopamean wrote:
         | I think that's Jamie Lannister?
        
       | sn0w_crash wrote:
       | You got it - a COO is focused on process and productivity (among
       | many other things)
       | 
       | A good COO will be almost invisible. The company is firing on all
       | cylinders, departments interact with one another smoothly,
       | everyone is getting what they need.... and the COO is behind the
       | scenes making it all work.
        
       | rundmc wrote:
       | Gross oversimplification: CEO - Works on the business, focuses on
       | the big picture. COO - Works in the business, focuses on the
       | detailed execution.
        
       | water8 wrote:
        
       | pigtailgirl wrote:
       | -- a nebulous position - depending on the CEO - usually they are
       | excellent in things the CEO is not - our CEO is really good at
       | thinking about process and productivity - but really bad at
       | thinking about finance and legal - so our COO does that stuff for
       | her --
        
         | marcus0x62 wrote:
         | This is the correct answer.
         | 
         | There's a great article[0] about Tim Cook from his days as
         | Apple's COO that delves into some of the behind-the-scenes
         | problems he worked on at the time and that Jobs likely wouldn't
         | have had the time and/or skill set to fix.
         | 
         | 0 -
         | https://money.cnn.com/2008/11/09/technology/cook_apple.fortu...
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | _Shortly after signing on as Chief Operating Officer at Facebook,
       | Sheryl Sandberg was looking to connect with people in a similar
       | role. She called Tim Cook.
       | 
       | "He basically explained nicely that my job was to do the things
       | that Mark (Zuckerberg) did not want to focus on as much,"
       | Sandberg said of the 2007 meeting that lasted several hours with
       | the Chief Operating Officer of Apple Inc.
       | 
       | "That was his job with Steve (Jobs). And he explained that the
       | job would change over time and I should be prepared for that." _
        
       | dboreham wrote:
       | Ass kicker
        
       | aviramha wrote:
       | I think a classic super-star COO example would be Sheryl
       | Sandberg, who was COO of Facebook/Meta. She was practically
       | running the company. Zuckerberg mainly focused on strategy,
       | vision while she made Facebook a well oiled profit machine.
        
         | new2this wrote:
         | This description matches my experience interacting with
         | multiple COO's at startups of varying size. Most CEO's I know
         | look outwards and to the future, the COO ensures the company
         | executes against the path the CEO has set
         | 
         | The role responsibilities are nebulous and change based on the
         | company, but can generally be described as "whatever is
         | necessary for the business to run". That could mean they focus
         | on running Sales, Marketing, Support, Customer Success, but
         | they could also oversee Operations and in some cases Product.
        
       | willcipriano wrote:
       | Sort of a side question: If someone running a company claimed to
       | do all the things in these comments "looking towards the future",
       | "strategy", "investor relations", "business optimization" how
       | would you disprove that?
        
         | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
         | "Investor relations" and "strategy" sound vague, but in this
         | context they refer to concrete and unambiguous things. If
         | you're not regularly standing in front of investors and showing
         | them slide decks, you're not doing investor relations; if
         | you're not regularly talking to senior leaders to discuss the
         | industry and suggest new initiatives, you're not doing
         | strategy.
         | 
         | "Looking towards the future" and "business optimization" are
         | more squishy, and you can't really specifically disprove that
         | someone's doing them on an ongoing basis. But you can often
         | disprove it retrospectively, if you see that the business is
         | run increasingly poorly or clearly failed to account for some
         | big new trend.
        
       | gsatic wrote:
       | Where I work, most of the persons time is spent making sure custo
       | mers/clients/partners/suppliers/tenants/banks/investors/employees
       | /contractors etc etc honor commitments. Cuz most people dont. For
       | all kinds of good and bad reasons. And ofcourse same story works
       | in the opposite direction too.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Matticus_Rex wrote:
       | As others have said, it varies greatly. I've seen COOs with some
       | focus on process/productivity improvement, but most I see are too
       | bogged down with operational details, fixing messes, vetting
       | vendors, or a host of other things to work on that. And while
       | they may encourage others toward deep work, in my experience COOs
       | are very unlikely to get much deep work in themselves, so keep
       | that in mind.
       | 
       | What you like to do is often what consultants are brought in for.
       | Consulting has its pros and cons, of course, and it's likely that
       | someone with a pure engineering background will need at least
       | significant management experience or some PM certs to look good
       | for that.
       | 
       | As an aside, I'm a firm believer in the idea that GTD or GTD-lite
       | for the workplace, with meetings and project reporting focused on
       | next-actions and an expectation that people keep up with weekly
       | reviews, is one of the best things a company can do for itself.
        
       | mrunkel wrote:
       | CEO - we are going over there COO - I'll get the transportation,
       | food, and supplies ready CTO - I'll put everything in
       | microservices CFO - We can't afford any of this.
        
         | HWR_14 wrote:
         | CSO - You cannot leave the keys in the running car while you
         | load it with food
        
           | j33zusjuice wrote:
           | In fact, the keys to the car need to be in a secure lock box
           | opened with a key, and a passcode that only you know. But the
           | PIN holder cannot be the same person as the key holder, so
           | you'll need a second person with you at all times.
        
       | tiborsaas wrote:
       | The person I've been missing my whole life :)
       | 
       | Writing code is fun, building stuff is fun. Handling tax stuff,
       | invoicing, managing office space and connecting various
       | departments is a major PITA.
        
       | k__ wrote:
       | A COO does what the CEO doesn't want to do.
        
       | Konohamaru wrote:
       | To use an analogy from Catholic theology, J-sus would be
       | analogous to the company owner while the Pope would be analogous
       | to the COO. Hope that helps on providing understanding.
        
       | ehcjrvakzjtbe wrote:
       | a coo is a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a
       | government
        
         | Yenrabbit wrote:
         | This spelling only valid if the seizure of power is performed
         | by pigeons
        
           | throw_away_8080 wrote:
           | Or a scottish hielan coo.
        
           | asciii wrote:
           | https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/america-coup-
           | or...
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | COOs do all the stuff that people _think_ CEOs do.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-15 23:02 UTC)