[HN Gopher] There was a stretch where phone design went bananas
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       There was a stretch where phone design went bananas
        
       Author : leephillips
       Score  : 145 points
       Date   : 2022-11-14 14:29 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | dharbin wrote:
       | Actually, I love this. I remember having a teeny tiny phone back
       | then (not quite a Zoolander size), and it was a lot of fun. Now
       | everything is a boring rectangle of glass. Bring back the fun!
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | I miss the Nokia 7700 which was a high-resolution touchscreen
       | phone in 2003 and looked like a prop from "Star Trek: Deep Space
       | Nine":
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_7700
       | 
       | This was the high point of Nokia design's plastic fantastic
       | insanity. It had side-talking and everything.
        
       | Markoff wrote:
       | Yeah, good times and now we would be happy if they offered at
       | least smaller rectangle instead of those huge bricks or remote
       | controls.
        
       | woopwoop wrote:
       | > They literally designed this entire thing for dads that
       | couldn't get the hang of T9
       | 
       | I had a phone like this, although not that model. It was great,
       | T9 sucked. In fact, it was much more pleasant to type on than a
       | touch screen.
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | It was actually aimed at the blackberry crowd that valued
         | having a full keyboard at the time. I had one for a while in
         | Nokia. It was great for things like email. Much lighter than
         | the 9500/9300s it replaced. Those were heavy bricks. Different
         | times of course but I do miss hardware keyboards.
         | 
         | I think we lost something with all those hardware form-factors
         | converging on essentially the same design: a rectangle that
         | barely fits in your pocket.
        
         | aivisol wrote:
         | The author has no clue what he is talking about. I absolutely
         | loved my Nokia 6822 - you could install a third party SSH
         | client on it and that's how the remote work era really began
         | for me. Next phone for me was obviously Nokia 9300 - also with
         | full QWERTY keyboard. What came later was Android/iPhone which
         | in a way was step back in terms of productivity due to lack of
         | physical keyboard.
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | Yup, I was a big fan of phones with actual keyboards, before
         | and after the smartphone era, for exactly that reason.
         | Transferring the muscle memory from typing on a PC keyboard to
         | these mini-keyboards was surprisingly fast, and after that you
         | could simply type without worrying about T9 fucking things up
         | (one classic in German was that it turned "Frohe", as in "Happy
         | Easter" or "Merry Christmas", into "Droge", as in illegal
         | drugs). My collection includes the Nokia 5510 (also memorable
         | for being one of the first phones with a built-in music player,
         | although the memory was laughably small), the Nokia 6822 (I
         | think this was the successor of the phone in the tweet - looks
         | like quite a few "dads" must have bought one) and the Motorola
         | Droid/Milestone.
        
       | blululu wrote:
       | Sure, you can sit around Twitter all day whining about how Apple
       | won't make your favorite phone or you can get on AliExpress and
       | send $20 USD for a brand new Ferrari Phone:
       | 
       | https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802047473717.html?spm=a2g...
        
         | blululu wrote:
         | Also comes in flip phone form factor:
         | https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832310833680.html?spm=a2g...
         | 
         | Not into cars. That's fine. How about a phone for people who
         | really like soda:
         | https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255799830362840.html?spm=a2g...
         | 
         | Once you drop the giant screen requirement that all smart
         | phones cater to as their design center you can kind of go nuts
         | on the ID. A relatively modest amount of NRE will let you spin
         | up your own absurd vision into a feature phone. (Though you may
         | end of losing a quarter million dollars just for the pure joy
         | of having a rotary dial mobile phone with eInk display).
        
           | tobr wrote:
           | > How about a phone for people who really like soda:
           | 
           | Just don't get the Ppesi, everyone knows ColaCaco is the
           | original. Heinkene is good too, known for their PRLMIUM
           | QUIUITY.
        
             | joemi wrote:
             | Interestingly, the main pic shows the correct brand names,
             | but the individual pics show the modified ones.
        
       | euroderf wrote:
       | I worked at a mobile commerce startup in Helsinki in the late 90s
       | and I remember seeing some of these in the hands of business
       | acquaintances. It just amazes me that Nokia cranked out so many
       | oddball designs and that basically they all disappeared without a
       | trace. I wonder if any of them actually were seriously studied by
       | academics for their UIs.
        
       | BuildTheRobots wrote:
       | I've got fond memories of trying to order from the Farnel website
       | with a Nokia 6800 back in 2006ish... I think via wifi. The entire
       | experience was awful and infuriating on a number of levels, but
       | it did actually get on with it. Might have been running Opera as
       | a java app. Thanks for the post - I've been trying to remember
       | what that was and failing to google for a couple of weeks now.
       | 
       | Some of the ire and sarcasm seems undeserved and seems to miss
       | the point of some of the handsets - I wonder if the author is old
       | enough to remember them first hand in the wild (eg for the k800
       | no one downloaded MP3s through their phone, but having a 2gb SD
       | card and a USB connection was extremely handy).
       | 
       | Edit: to clarify what I meant; I didn't meant to disparage
       | anyone's age. Merely that I remember some of this tech making
       | sense in the context of the time, though looking back from today,
       | I can see why it wouldn't.
        
         | johnwalkr wrote:
         | I have fond memories of the WAP internet. In 2001 in Canada it
         | was really expensive to get any kind of data plan, and you
         | might only get 5MB per month. I had a plan with no data at all,
         | but you could use the WAP browser to access a handful of things
         | for free, on the provider's website. It was things like
         | weather, very limited news and movie times. One day I was
         | messing around in there, and a 404 page had a link to google. I
         | bookmarked the link and from that day had unlimited WAP
         | internet access (and google had a built-in gateway to WAPify
         | any web page). My next phone was not a flip phone, had a real
         | (bad browser), and had a prominent web browser button that
         | worked from any other screen. However you could only exit the
         | browser by navigating menus. It also had a tendency to reset in
         | your pocket, which of course turned off the keylock. So at
         | least once a day you'd end up pocket-googling and using up your
         | precious megabytes.
        
       | yafbum wrote:
       | Missing: the Danger Hiptop aka T-Mobile Sidekick, with its
       | swivel-up screen revealing a full keyboard in landscape.
       | 
       | https://amp.www.complex.com/pop-culture/2015/09/history-of-t...
       | 
       | This thing's software is maybe more interesting than its form
       | factor, due to it being a kind of proto-Android stack (Java VM
       | equivalent with some amount of build-time bytecode preprocessing
       | to accelerate it on devices)
        
         | consp wrote:
         | That thing is from 2002, kind of ancient even by side-swipe-
         | keyboard phone standards. Only got my first one when HTC
         | started offering them on our market around the 2004/2005 time
         | (with windows mobile 5, ymmv).
         | 
         | My personal favourite but with shitty keyboard:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Blue_Angel
        
         | ryanwaggoner wrote:
         | I had one of these in college, and it was awesome. It had AOL
         | Instant Messenger built on, and the L/R shoulder buttons would
         | let you slide between your conversations. So quick and
         | satisfying.
        
         | codethief wrote:
         | Its form factor is also reminiscent of the later T-Mobile G1,
         | the first Android phone. :)
        
         | jwilk wrote:
         | Non-AMP link:
         | 
         | https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2015/09/history-of-the-s...
        
         | tonywastaken wrote:
         | Danger also had a pretty nice App Store model and a nice
         | developer and user community in their phpBB forums. The
         | carriers that supported the Hiptop also had a hosted web
         | interface where you could manage your email, calendar, notes,
         | etc.
        
           | yafbum wrote:
           | That hosted web interface even got famously hacked by a
           | teenager then posted screenshots of Paris Hilton's info
           | https://www.computerworld.com/article/2569592/paris-
           | hilton-m...
        
           | latchkey wrote:
           | I'm friends with a few of the super early Danger employees.
           | My buddy and I were trying to use that opportunity to get our
           | app into that store. At the time, you kind of needed to know
           | someone on the inside to get listed on stores, especially if
           | your app wasn't a game or ringtone.
           | 
           | We built a small and simple bartender app that had a UX
           | almost exactly like the hiptop address book. You could easily
           | look up recipes for drinks and then we'd let you build a
           | shopping list. It was a fun exercise that was about a month
           | of development time for the both of us. Mostly, it was just
           | cleaning up the recipe data and adding a few drinks on our
           | own.
           | 
           | It turns out that T-Mobile wouldn't list the app because they
           | didn't have the ability to make sure that everyone using the
           | app was 21+. We fought with this for months over it and
           | eventually gave up. It was a really frustrating experience.
           | 
           | Apple came along with the iPhone and their own store model
           | and while people used to complain heavily about it, I kept
           | thinking at least it wasn't T-Mobile.
           | 
           | By the way, the VM was the precursor to Dalvik, which
           | eventually turned into what is now Android...
           | 
           | https://medium.com/@chrisdesalvo/the-future-that-everyone-
           | fo...
        
       | shubhamjain wrote:
       | I did some investigation around this. At their peak, Nokia
       | launched 46 models a single year [1]. I believe Apple has
       | launched somewhere <35 models of iPhone in the fifteen years of
       | its existence. Part of the problem was, companies like Nokia
       | couldn't conceive thinking that there could be one model that's
       | good for everyone. Like music? You need to get a music phone like
       | XpressMusic. Business person? Get N97. Low on budget? Get the
       | simple 1108. The proliferation of models just spread expertise,
       | and marketing dollars, and ended up diluting both. Instead of
       | making one awesome phone, you have tons of mediocre models.
       | 
       | The genius of Steve Jobs was in showing that you can have whole
       | company focus on making a brilliant device that works for
       | everyone. I still don't get why companies are so much focused on
       | launching hundreds of different models instead of one and
       | leveraging economies of scale.
       | 
       | [1]: https://twitter.com/shubhamjainco/status/1406338323531010050
        
         | unconed wrote:
         | The genius of Steve Jobs was simply that he had enough taste,
         | vision and authority that the company was actually focused on
         | delivering _products_.
         | 
         | The state of the average enterprise, like Microsoft and Google,
         | is that various business units and departments have devolved
         | into cargo culting process to satisfy the petty career needs of
         | their managers and workers.
         | 
         | It's not complicated. The people in charge not only do not
         | understand product development, but they fundamentally don't
         | care and will get uncomfortable if you try to make them care.
         | It is far too tall an order, and too much work.
        
         | Puts wrote:
         | It's like when you go to the cheap lunch restaurant that have
         | 70 items on their menu vs the fine dining place that has a set
         | three course menu for the evening. Quantity signals cheapness.
        
         | mhaberl wrote:
         | > The genius of Steve Jobs was in showing that you can have
         | whole company focus on making a brilliant device that works for
         | everyone
         | 
         | No, it doesn't work for everyone.
         | 
         | He showed that there are enough people who can and are willing
         | to pay for a premium device. He choose a niche.
         | 
         | Nokia uses a classic price segmentation strategy.
         | 
         | Read more here:
         | https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/15/camels-and-rubber-...
        
           | RicoElectrico wrote:
           | Yeah, nah. In their lineup much of the models were exactly
           | equivalent, only with a different shell, at best camera or
           | display.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Exactly - market segmentation was huge and every phone was
             | basically "identical" - storage space, processor speed,
             | connection speed, even screen size, these things really
             | didn't "matter" much yet.
        
           | gilbetron wrote:
           | Gotta find myself a niche like that.
        
         | RicoElectrico wrote:
         | So I am not the only one who thinks their deluge of models was
         | ridiculous. To be fair, most of them - for better or for worse
         | - had the same guts (they only used a handful of bseband chips
         | most probably from TI internally named UPP8M, UPPWD2, UPP2M);
         | from service manuals you can tell the most often varied thing
         | was the RF section. But still, NRE, tooling and certification
         | would cost millions per model. Injection molds would cost
         | serveral hundred grand alone.
        
         | bradknowles wrote:
         | Samsung squits out like 50+ phone models a year. That's like
         | one every week.
         | 
         | How can any of them be any good? How can any of them ever get
         | any useful time in the spotlight?
        
           | pc86 wrote:
           | You're right, if they had any business sense they'd be making
           | more than a piddling $1B/month -
           | https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/26/22902283/samsung-
           | earnings...
        
       | dec0dedab0de wrote:
       | I have a cat s61, which has a tiny bump out at the top of the
       | standard cellphone rectangle shape for the IR camera. People
       | always ask me what it is, because this minute detail stands out
       | so much when everything else looks the same.
        
       | abeppu wrote:
       | Is there a more general framework for understanding when a sudden
       | amount of variation is expected and perhaps rational? The analogy
       | is very loose, but this makes me think a bit of the cambrian
       | explosion, or periods when a sudden environmental shift is
       | followed by a profusion of new species. When a new 'space' is
       | opened, it seems like a range of things can try to fill it, until
       | one strategy becomes dominant, at least until conditions change?
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | The end result is often called a "local maximum" and what
         | you've pointed out happens time and time again.
         | 
         | Cars underwent something similar very early on, but by the time
         | we got to the "Model T" era it was pretty much determined what
         | they would look like.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | After the Model T there was still variety in style and design
           | building on the basic formula... up until the present day
           | when everybody seems to have settled on the same basic bean-
           | shaped blob, specialty vehicles such as sports cars and
           | pickups excepted. Bigger or smaller beans account for body
           | variations from subcompact to crossover, and the name
           | Cadillac, which once conjured images of limo-like luxury,
           | today means a fancier bean.
        
           | TremendousJudge wrote:
           | Arguably, the Model A is the first modern car, moreso than
           | the Model T, which has a lot of quirks that would be
           | unrecognizable to today's drivers. For example, it didn't
           | even had a throttle pedal, and choosing the gears is done
           | through a bizantine system that includes a "reverse pedal".
           | In a Model T you get this distinct impression of riding _on
           | top_ of the car instead of inside it, and it has many other
           | things like this. By comparison, the Model A is remarkably
           | similar to the cars of today, except much more primitive of
           | course.
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | Glad to see this comment - the Cambrian explosion analogy was
         | the exact one that came to mind for me, and I actually think,
         | as you put it, the same dynamics are in play. Lots of different
         | approaches are taken until it is clear that, after time, one is
         | dominant and the best. I remember when the iPhone first came
         | out the whole "tapping on glass" keyboard was highly
         | controversial, but it soon won out (and, IMO, especially
         | because it allows swipe typing).
         | 
         | As an aside, this comment from the tweet thread is genius: "I
         | call this one the Shyamalan because of the unnecessary twist".
        
           | karamanolev wrote:
           | My impression is not that swipe typing is the winner, but
           | because of configurability of the keyboard (different
           | language layouts) and the option to use the screen estate for
           | other purposes (e.g. when watching videos). The latter is
           | particularly important, as the screen-to-body ratio is
           | critical in those devices.
        
       | rospaya wrote:
       | Bananas? I call it interesting, brave and fun times. My two year
       | old phone can do practically everything that can be done with
       | today's flagship, but back then the difference between a year
       | would be GPS, 4x storage, megapixel camers, interesting hardware.
       | Changes were massive and manufacturers weren't afraid to
       | experiment.
        
       | xbar wrote:
       | I'd really like to take on a pi hack project on one of those Sony
       | Ericsson Walkman phones.
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | My favorite phone ever is still the Sony Ericsson P800. It had a
       | full touchscreen, jog dial and detachable stylus. The number pad
       | was just an overlay on the bottom half of the touch screen and
       | could be flipped open or removed.
       | 
       | I got so much flak as it cost as much as an iPhone, but in 2003.
       | 
       | https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/reviews/sony-mobile/67352...
        
         | WillPostForFood wrote:
         | I had one and thought it was pretty cool - first phone I owned
         | that could run an SSH client. I miss the tactile controls (jog
         | dial) that compliment touch screens.
        
       | silexia wrote:
       | I would love a phone with pre-built grips on it...
       | 
       | I bought a Pixel 6 Pro earlier in the year and the first one
       | cracked then turned into a brick, while using the Google case for
       | it. My second one cracked in my pocket while using the top Amazon
       | case.
       | 
       | I would like a rugged and sturdy phone that won't crack sitting
       | in your pocket and is not slick as snot.
        
       | UI_at_80x24 wrote:
       | I miss the Nokia N900 form factor (although, larger would have
       | been nicer).
       | 
       | It combined touch-screen AND a full keyboard.
        
         | thriftwy wrote:
         | It also had stylus and a kickstand! It could broadcast in FM!
        
       | themenomen wrote:
       | Some of these in action from Michael Fisher's "When Phones Were
       | Fun" playlist:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZi-7V11k8&list=PLwd8abTO4v...
        
       | flanbiscuit wrote:
       | I had the Motorola V70 (the one that "PIVOTED") and I loved it!
       | https://twitter.com/GerryMcBride/status/1591909798488178688
       | 
       | It was my 2nd to last pre-smartphone era phone, the last being
       | the RAZR.
       | 
       | I get that the swiveling piece was unique but I wouldn't put it
       | in the same "bananas" categories as some of the other ones
        
       | Izkata wrote:
       | > "OK... what if instead of it flipping, it PIVOTED"
       | 
       | Kinda like the LG Wing: https://www.lg.com/global/lgwing
        
         | Findecanor wrote:
         | The LG Wing feels like the spiritual successor to the Sharp
         | Aquos 912SH, where you flipped and _then_ rotated the top half.
         | (mentioned elsewhere while I was trying to remember its name)
        
         | wildzzz wrote:
         | The original sidekick is the earliest pivot phone I can think
         | of. The Samsung Juke came out several years later but I don't
         | think it sold that well because of how tiny it was. I don't
         | expect any pivot phones to sell that well. For that LG phone,
         | what are you supposed to do with the bottom screen? It's wasted
         | on media controls, how often do you need a fully unobstructed
         | view of a video while you are pausing or fast forwarding? Games
         | make sense, the DS took advantage of a second screen but this
         | requires games to develop just for this second screen. Video
         | editing makes the most sense as long as there's a video editor
         | out there that can take advantage of the second screen but also
         | document editing too (but who really wants to do this on a
         | phone?).
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | You could stick a keyboard down there, if you're... I dunno,
           | running a really wide text processor?
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | The Motorola ROKR phone had iTunes:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_ROKR
        
       | Sharlin wrote:
       | The Nokia 8110 [1] was literally nicknamed "banana", at least in
       | Finland, due to its shape and its being available in yellow.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_8110
        
         | moron4hire wrote:
         | Cellular, modular, interactivodular.
        
       | Eric_WVGG wrote:
       | I almost bought one of those "lipstick" phones. I figured, if all
       | I'm doing is making calls, why _not_ have the smallest phone
       | possible? The only thing that really stopped me is that I never
       | figured out if it would work on American cell networks.
       | https://twitter.com/GerryMcBride/status/1591908903964622848
        
       | awkward wrote:
       | Late Nokia phones had this feature where you could enter numbers
       | and the phone would autocomplete based on the numeric character
       | codes. So 4 [GHI] 3 [DEF] 5 [JKL] would give "Hello" as the first
       | option, and so on. It's still the best typing experience I've had
       | on a phone.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | atestu wrote:
         | Do you mean T9?
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T9_(predictive_text)
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | There are T9 phone keyboards on the Play Store and almost all
         | phones (with Apple being the notable exception) also
         | incorporate T9 into their dialers.
         | 
         | T9 worked great for words in the dictionary. When your word
         | wasn't in the (often limited) dictionary, though...
        
       | aimor wrote:
       | This was the one I picked:
       | https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/nokia-7705-twist-verizon
       | 
       | Small, had a keyboard, and cost less than $100. Also, the back of
       | the top-half was a mirror. Oh, but most important: it felt GOOD
       | to swivel out and snap shut.
        
       | _spduchamp wrote:
       | Nothing beats the Wasp T12 Speechtool!
        
       | arcade79 wrote:
       | I just wish we could get some smaller smartphones again. I
       | absolutely loved the Nexus One (HTC Passion). Just the right
       | size.
        
         | nix0n wrote:
         | If you want an absolutely minuscule phone, there's Unihertz:
         | https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-pro
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | That's my daily-driver phone. I love everything about it
           | except the camera.
        
           | smallerfish wrote:
           | I don't recommend Unihertz. My Atom XL is riddled with bugs,
           | and tech support are useless.
        
       | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
       | Remember sidetalking? (a Nokia N-Gage meme)
       | 
       | https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sidetalking-n-gage
       | 
       | https://www.globalnerdy.com/2022/07/09/sidetalking-makes-a-s...
        
         | evv wrote:
         | Even if this thread is fake, for me this is the most memorable
         | thing about that phone
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/cooperlund/status/1185243122210656261
        
       | JofArnold wrote:
       | And then there's the Nokia Goatse phone
       | https://twitter.com/cooperlund/status/1185243122210656261
        
       | agentwiggles wrote:
       | I had a Samsung Alias for a while, which was a genuinely cool
       | phone. It could flip open either vertically (in the normal RAZR
       | style) or it could be flipped open horizontally.
       | 
       | The keypad had e-ink displays in each key, and if you had it open
       | vertically, it would display a number pad for dialing. If it was
       | open horizontally, you got a full keyboard instead.
       | 
       | I could text faster than all my friends.
       | 
       | I also had a Motorola Hint, which was a neat little device -
       | smaller than your average phone at the time, and almost square.
       | You could slide out a little keyboard.
       | 
       | Keyboard phones were neat. Bring em back I say!
        
       | RajT88 wrote:
       | I miss the days when you had bonkers phones like this. I agree
       | with most people that life is a little dull with our iPhone
       | clones. It's nice for watching videos (which I don't do too
       | much), and less nice for typing (which I do rather more). The E90
       | form factor is still my dream phone.
       | 
       | If you think the Nokia phones were nuts, you should dig up stuff
       | coming out of Japan 2000-2010, like the Hitachi WOO Ketai H001
       | (yes, that's a real name). All kinds of flip/fold/swivel/etc.
       | with TV tuners and DVR functionality, digital cameras, music
       | players, etc. Sharp Aquos 912SH is another one which comes to
       | mind.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I think it's kind of sad that we went from "let's see if we can
         | add a phone to this" in the 90s/2000s to "lets see if we can
         | add this to a phone" in the post-iPhone era.
         | 
         | Given the scarcity of phone connections I suppose it was
         | inevitable, but man was it fun for awhile.
        
         | wirthjason wrote:
         | Japanese phones get left out of the conversation because these
         | topics spin into nostalgia and the Western audience doesn't
         | have any experience with them. Likewise the JP discussion
         | wouldn't fondly remember all the Nokia variants.
         | 
         | On a side note I have a pet theory that Japanese cell phones
         | helped push display technology forward. The English alphabet
         | can be displayed very easily with limited pixels but kana and
         | kanji cannot so there's less pressure for Western manufacturers
         | to innovate displays. For a phone to first be successful in
         | Japan it needs a very high resolution display.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | The same was true of computers. Japanese PCs had high-
           | resolution graphics way before American PCs because of the
           | need to draw kanji with enough detail. This led to a parallel
           | universe of not quite PC compatible standards like the NEC
           | PC88 and PC98 lines.
        
         | zumu wrote:
         | >Hitachi WOO Ketai H001
         | 
         | I remember that one! The aughts were a truly a golden era in
         | Japanese phone design. The technology was also waaay ahead of
         | the west. We're just now starting to actually use the QR code
         | thing, which was everywhere in like 2005. And 1seg? That was
         | really fun tech. TV on my morning commute was truly like living
         | in the future.
         | 
         | For iconic phones, though, I was always a big fan of the au
         | Design phones like the infobar (2003) and Design Skin. The
         | color schemes are legendary.
        
         | raynr wrote:
         | I thought the list was missing Japanese phones too! I went on
         | holiday to Japan in the early 00s, and I remember thinking how
         | all of the phones were way ahead of their time. Phones with
         | flip-and-swivel screens, phones that looked sleek, metallic,
         | sexy and modern, phones with full colour displays that were not
         | some Palm monstrosity, phones that didn't look like phones and
         | instead looked like some leather-and-metal accessory (only took
         | calls), so many cool phones! I wanted them so bad.
         | 
         | I wonder why they never became popular overseas. The iPhone,
         | sure, but there was a whole period before the iPhone where
         | Japanese phones were way ahead of their time.
        
           | RF_Savage wrote:
           | No interest in marketing them overseas.
           | 
           | There was also the not insignificant cost of completely re-
           | engineering the RF frontend and radios. As back then (an
           | partly still) Japan used cellular bands and technologies that
           | ware completely different from other countries.
           | 
           | It kept the competition out, but also made it hard for them
           | to compete abroad. And then iPhone happened and many of those
           | manufacturers are no longer in the biz.
        
         | babypuncher wrote:
         | We all like crazy designs like these because they are a
         | breeding ground for innovation. However they tend to flop
         | unless one of their innovations proves truly revolutionary.
         | 
         | Early personal computers and even laptops had interesting and
         | varied designs before everyone coalesced around the optimal
         | desktop, tower, and notebook designs.
         | 
         | A big part of the problem is software. If a phone maker puts
         | out a truly unique form factor today, they are stuck in a
         | situation where most existing software was built assuming the
         | user is on a giant rectangle.
        
       | tweetle_beetle wrote:
       | I actually had the Nokia 7600 pictured at the top of the thread.
       | It's often ridiculed, but I don't know anyone else who had one
       | who can fairly pass judgement. It had genuinely good ergonomics -
       | not disimilar to the fancy split keyboard philosophy. Each thumb
       | had clear acces to specific buttons and the distance between them
       | was maximised, easing strain on the wrists. In the era of T9, it
       | was great. It was also hand friendly for phonecalls - remember
       | them?
       | 
       | In response to sibling comment, comparing it to the iPhone is
       | silly. The iPhone OS 1 was half a decade away when th 7600 was
       | launched and started at $499. This was a cheap, fun phone using
       | well trodden software on a budget. Nokia dominated the market and
       | market segmentation is a natural strategy in that situation -
       | especially before touchscreens allowed
       | customisation/personalisation in software.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | I had the 7600 too, and enjoyed the "lemon" form factor!
         | 
         | But it certainly wasn't a cheap phone when it launched. The
         | typical Nokia cost around $150. This was the high-end model of
         | Nokia's feature phone range, and they highlighted it in ads
         | with fashion brands. (The fashion touch was a leather strap you
         | could attach to the lemon phone's corner.)
         | 
         | The 7600 did include technical innovation: it was the first
         | Nokia model ever to include 3G, and IIRC it was also the first
         | European phone to shoot video (stamp-sized 144p clips).
        
       | alex_c wrote:
       | Somewhat related - I feel like we're in the middle of a general
       | trend of boring, monochrome design.
       | 
       | Car colors come to mind:
       | 
       | https://www.thedrive.com/news/37001/this-graph-shows-how-car...
       | 
       | Winter is coming - that means a sea of black, dark blue, or dark
       | brown winter coats everywhere.
       | 
       | Or the trends towards same-looking logos that have been discussed
       | here before:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32040506
       | 
       | I guess all trends are cyclical, so looking forward to an
       | explosion in colour in another 5-10 years!
        
       | CommieBobDole wrote:
       | I sort of miss when tiny phones were a thing. I had (and still
       | have somewhere) a Nokia 8260, and that thing was absolutely
       | minuscule.
       | 
       | https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=65
        
       | webdoodle wrote:
       | I had the first edition Compaq Ipaq pocket pc phone, running on
       | windows. It had a dedicated keyboard and built in 28.8k modem. It
       | was the first 'smart' phone, in that I could somewhat browse the
       | web, but it was mostly useful for email.
       | 
       | The modem also functioned as a fax, so I could send and receive
       | faxes, though not all that practical. It didn't have a camera,
       | and was nearly as big as a brick, but it was the first portable,
       | internet connected device that was small enough to carry. Came
       | with a stylus thing to function like a mouse, sort of. It only
       | got about a days use before needed a recharge.
       | 
       | Google didn't exist at the time, but Lycos did. I smuggled my
       | brand new phone into a local pub triva night, and with all my new
       | tech powers, ensured our team won that night. $20 of beer was our
       | prize, and the concept of smartphone was firmly embedded in
       | culture.
        
         | moron4hire wrote:
         | I had a coworker that had one of those, while I had only an
         | IPaq PDA. They were roughly the same size, with the phone being
         | slightly thicker and also an antenna nub on the top.
         | 
         | I found my IPaq while moving a month ago. The footprint is
         | significantly smaller than my Google Pixel 6. Though the Pixel
         | is significantly thinner, I find that also makes it more
         | uncomfortable to hold. Like, imagine taking it to an extreme
         | and the phone becomes as thin as a piece of glass. Even without
         | sharp edges, it'd still be very uncomfortable to wrap your hand
         | around such a thing.
         | 
         | I don't understand the obsession with thinner and thinner
         | phones. Thickness is not universally bad. It would at least
         | give us more room for battery.
         | 
         | There aren't any other, similarly-sized objects that I wrap my
         | hand around completely. Small books, digital cameras, handheld
         | game consoles, I hold gripping the edge of the device. But you
         | can't do that with a smartphone because one of the two largest
         | faces of the rectangular solid is reactive to any part of your
         | skin.
         | 
         | My laptop touchpad can tell when I wrest my wrist on it while
         | typing on the keyboard versus just touching it with my
         | fingertips. Why can't smartphones reject grabbing the side of
         | the screen and only react to fingertip touches?
        
           | theriddlr wrote:
           | This! Candybar phones have more secure grip and room for
           | battery. The iPhone 4 while heavier is more comfortable to
           | hold than the iPhone 6 / SE3 which I now use.
        
       | agilob wrote:
       | An alternative is that every single phone looks the same. Black
       | or grey square case with a touch screen. There's literally
       | nothing to design or make interesting, just every second model
       | change rounded corners to sharp corners and call it "new design".
        
         | theriddlr wrote:
         | Second-hand phone shops now show the back of the phone in the
         | display case because they all look the same from the front.
        
         | gardenhedge wrote:
         | Well when companies try do something different - like a notch -
         | they get shit on these days
        
         | Antrikshy wrote:
         | Hardware may be less interesting, but the software is way more
         | dynamic than ever.
        
           | agilob wrote:
           | Yes, when opening Google Play I'm presented with Games, Apps
           | and Books. Games are designed by psychologists to keep us
           | engaged with unnatural colours, actions and injecting
           | ourselves with dopamine every 30 seconds, and apps? Apps also
           | contains games, but also sponsored content, like I don't
           | remember for how long Disney+ ad was there... since April at
           | least. Very interesting. The other software? All my installed
           | apps have updates about at least twice per month, but I never
           | notice anything changing. Bugs aren't fixed, performance
           | isn't improved, but now my banking app can access my
           | location. Old phones had no "dynamic software" updates,
           | everything worked and never needed updates or upgrades,
           | unless.
           | 
           | We have throwaway hardware that looks the same, made with
           | throwaway software where updates make no difference. We have
           | fewer choices now. It's just Android vs iPhone, both look the
           | same and copy each other design and functionality, both in
           | hardware and software. We had games that were hard and
           | required some planning on paper and hardware that was
           | interesting and unique.
        
       | yafbum wrote:
       | Missing: the luxury-focused Vertu line, like:
       | 
       | https://luxatic.com/boucheron-helped-create-the-360k-vertu-s...
        
       | pwinnski wrote:
       | @dang can we update the link to
       | https://twitter.com/GerryMcBride/status/1591907714208518145
       | please?
        
       | FunnyBadger wrote:
        
       | causality0 wrote:
       | I wish phone makers weren't all designing down to the lowest
       | common denominator. You can spend a thousand dollars on a "gaming
       | phone" but you haven't been able to buy a phone with actual
       | buttons for playing games in eleven damn years because god forbid
       | anybody diverge from the "glass monolith" design.
        
         | Izkata wrote:
         | > because god forbid anybody diverge from the "glass monolith"
         | design.
         | 
         | A few years ago my building's elevators were breaking down and
         | had to be completely replaced. The new ones have a touchscreen
         | that only ever displays the floor numbers, and real buttons
         | that only go up to 9 (in a grid like a phone) where you have to
         | hit two of them to go to floors 10+.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I feel for you - those buttons will stop working very well
           | quite soon and trying to enter "12" will get you 1, 2, and
           | finally 12.
           | 
           | Check every elevator carefully, ADA regulations sometimes
           | require at least ONE elevator in the building to have real
           | buttons (for the blind, for example).
        
             | SnooSux wrote:
             | Sounds like the buttons are all real, there are just only
             | 10 of them.
        
               | mortenjorck wrote:
               | This was the same setup in a condo tower I used to live
               | in. Touchscreen grid of floor numbers and a keypad (with
               | Braille) at ADA wheelchair height.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Yeah, which could be really annoying for someone who has
               | a challenge pressing two buttons fast enough to trigger.
               | 
               | A hotel I stayed at had touchscreen "requests" for
               | elevators (you put in your floor and it would call a
               | elevator for you) and it was super annoying (trying to
               | get floor 12 would doublebounce on 1 and 2 so you'd often
               | get 11 and 22 before getting 12) until I found a pedestal
               | out of the way that had real buttons for all floors.
               | 
               | The "hold your keycard up against the thing" is also
               | really annoying when it is 5 feet off the ground; imaging
               | having to wait for an elevator until someone comes along
               | who can hold your card up there for you.
        
               | 10000truths wrote:
               | > Yeah, which could be really annoying for someone who
               | has a challenge pressing two buttons fast enough to
               | trigger.
               | 
               | Sounds like that can easily be fixed with enter and
               | backspace buttons.
        
               | PhasmaFelis wrote:
               | It can be fixed even more easily by using normal elevator
               | buttons.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Now you get to buy weird "gaming cases" and who knows how bulky
         | those are, and if they even work (random obvious SEO link
         | thing: https://www.imore.com/best-gaming-cases-iphone-13-pro )
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | The physical buttons get in the way of day-to-day use. That's
         | why brands like Asus and Razer design phones that are shipped
         | with special cases containing things like joysticks, trigger,
         | and other physical buttons (using USB-C ports or Bluetooth for
         | transmissing buttons). Others still experiment. The ROG Phone 2
         | came with distance sensors on the side to function as analogue
         | triggers.
         | 
         | Phones with buttons have been tried and failed. Same with using
         | your phone's processor for a desktop environment by simply
         | plugging it into a dock; Samsung's DeX comes closest, but very
         | few people seem to use it.
         | 
         | In practice, the easiest way to combine phones and games is to
         | either stick with the touch screen interaction all games are
         | designed for, or to grab a Bluetooth controller. Works across
         | many games, almost all phones, and you have a pick in the hand
         | feel or button quality rather than being limited by the design
         | choices of the phone designer.
         | 
         | If you're into playing games on the go, tools like the Steam
         | Deck or one of the more recent cloud streaming handhelds are
         | probably better.
        
         | leereeves wrote:
         | Perhaps Valve could add a phone to the Steam Deck.
        
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