[HN Gopher] Human behavior on social media is similar to collect...
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Human behavior on social media is similar to collective behavior in
nature
Author : elorant
Score : 57 points
Date : 2022-11-13 13:23 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.noemamag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.noemamag.com)
| nomdep wrote:
| So... animals
| amelius wrote:
| I assume behavior in nature is typically more polite, though.
| seydor wrote:
| one of the mysteries of biology in this century is why/how
| collective behavior appears to be a fractal from cell cultures to
| societies and their digital facsimiles
|
| (also, social media are part of nature)
| Silverback_VII wrote:
| you say cell culture but look at this:
| https://youtu.be/0Kx4Y9TVMGg very complex patterns simply with
| particles attracting or repulsing each other.
| ispo wrote:
| Think of the dynamics, at each scale they might be different,
| but similar patterns emerge: rich (or fit) gets richer, minimum
| distance (or effort) to achieve a goal (e.g. convey
| information).
| soulofmischief wrote:
| And then enters living systems, with the unique quality of
| being able to continuously absorb external energy in order to
| intentionally enter a higher energy state in order to satisfy
| longer term goals outside of the concern of stabilization and
| free energy minimization. A human can jump, but a rock can't.
| soulofmischief wrote:
| Doesn't seem like much of a mystery to me. It's clear to me
| that there is a fundamental grammar underpinning all dynamic
| systems, and multi-agent systems of sufficient complexity are
| bound to have fractal similarities resulting from this grammar.
|
| For example, a universal concept which can apply to any system
| with measurable state variables is "compression", a naturally
| occurring phenomenon as high-energy systems tend toward lower
| energy states. Our DNA compresses genetic expression via
| instruction sets, our brain compresses incoming information,
| matter itself compresses over time when left to its own
| devices.
|
| The underlying mechanism for each of these processes varies,
| but it results from the same basic energy principles. Other
| such universal concepts include expansion, oscillation, pretty
| much any movement of a measured value around or between a range
| of target values. This grammar accounts for much of the
| behavior of complex dynamic systems, due to energy conservation
| being a fundamental quality of stable systems.
| Operative0198 wrote:
| The research study being quoted:
| https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2025764118
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| In a sense, this article confirms my personal pet theories on the
| subject. Despite being a little more evolved than birds, by
| evolutionary standards we are really not that far off. One of the
| few things that may actually make us sufficiently different is
| the fact that we can pass knowledge that would take millennia for
| evolution to sort out.
|
| Naturally, the question becomes what we do about it, implications
| that social media effectively controls our modern life and that
| despite some reasons to moderate its influence, slim chance of
| that appears to be possible.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| I take issue with the presumption of the inevitability of
| social media. Collectively we cannot put the genie back in the
| bottle, so I don't wish for that. Individually, we can choose
| how we engage with it, and in doing so, moderate the effects of
| it somewhat.
|
| Another way to say it is: one must choose to be terminally
| online, and become part of the mob.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| You raise a valid point. I think I both agree and disagree.
| Shadow profiles do exist and even if you do not directly
| participate, more social family or social circle member may
| choose to tag you for one reason or another. I absolutely
| agree that as individuals we bear responsibility for choosing
| being part of the mob, but... and I think I used that
| comparison before here.. have you ever been to a baseball
| game? The cheering crowd can rouse even a person like me who
| is there for no reason other than a social obligation. In
| other words, there is a reason why mob mentality is a common
| phrase.
| ispo wrote:
| So what? Any complex system behaves like that, which makes the
| analogy banal.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| Part of good science is trying to verify the obvious, because
| sometimes what is "obvious" is not correct, and sometimes it is
| partially true but differs in ways that are unexpected. We have
| a whole science crisis around replicating results as it is.
| Xeoncross wrote:
| True, science has taught me to always request more science
| before believing any science
| ispo wrote:
| And on your way you forget the details of what you already
| published.
| jason-phillips wrote:
| Not quite, I would argue. That may be true of any unregulated
| system of peers, but not a structured, regulated system.
| williamcotton wrote:
| Such as the hard-earned trials that over time led to what we
| call civilization.
| mandmandam wrote:
| The potential to massively alter collective human behaviour via
| tiny variations in social networks is _objectively_
| interesting, and important. There 's quite a lot at stake
| there, if you care to look - as the article does a decent job
| of beginning to address.
|
| The comparison and similarities of human flocking behaviour to
| other complex systems are _not_ one to one, and are poorly
| understood. Consider that you might simply be overestimating
| your understanding.
| Silverback_VII wrote:
| To say that interconnected humans behave like a flock of
| birds is very flawed in my opinion. Each bird in a flock sees
| the REAL behaviour of the other birds but this is not
| necessarily the case with the internet since an entity can
| heavily influence your perception of the other people by
| controlling the communication channel. The Internet and
| social network is more like adding the possibility to create
| one virtual bird for each real bird and then remotely control
| the whole flock.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Books on propaganda from the 1920's explicitly discuss
| "closing triangles" to artificially influence perception of
| near-neighbour opinions.
| ispo wrote:
| Please can you provide a citation?
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| I believe I'm remembering either _Crystallizing Public
| Opinion_ (1923) or _Propaganda_ (1928), both by Bernays.
| (IIRC, the exploitation of local social graphs is in his
| description of the techniques used to sell US entry into
| the Great War /WWI)
|
| But there were other authors I consulted in the same
| timeframe, and Linebarger, in _Psychological Warfare_
| (1948) points out that propaganda /public relations men
| (they were all men, in those days) are less than
| completely reliable sources when it comes to testimony as
| to their methods and their efficacy. So you'll probably
| want to triangulate a bit yourself.
|
| Edit: _Propaganda_ Ch.I,p18 is already promising:
|
| _... it must be remembered that these thousands of
| groups interlace. John Jones, besides being a Rotarian,
| is member of a church, of a fraternal order, of a
| political party, of a charitable organization, of a
| professional association, of a local chamber of commmerce
| ... This invisible, intertwining structure of groupings
| and associations is the mechanism by which democracy has
| organized its group mind and simplified its mass
| thinking. ... To admit that [this structure] exists, but
| expect that it shall not be used, is unreasonable._
| ispo wrote:
| Amazing description of for what today are called the
| layers of a multiplex.
| ispo wrote:
| Look at this from the other way around, imagine you could
| put a few drones influencing the birds.
| Oxidation wrote:
| Indeed, if it turns out social media platforms allow not only
| measurement but _control_ over the parameters of the "flock"
| behaviour, it's only a matter of time before it's possible to
| engineer sheepdogs.
|
| You can't control what you can't measure, and social media is
| a very effective measurement tool of crowd behaviour. Whether
| you _can_ control what you _can_ measure, well that 's up to
| Cambridge Analytica 2.0 to figure out.
| ispo wrote:
| Thanks for your enlightening comment.
| [deleted]
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