[HN Gopher] Zeal OS is a modernized fork of the Temple Operating...
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       Zeal OS is a modernized fork of the Temple Operating System
        
       Author : nix23
       Score  : 190 points
       Date   : 2022-11-13 09:01 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | mdp2021 wrote:
       | Remembering Terry Davis, 1969-2018.
        
         | kome wrote:
         | This project made me so happy. Requiescat in pace, Terry Davis.
        
         | St_Alfonzo wrote:
         | > "It's good to be King. Wait. Maybe. I think maybe I'm just a
         | bizarre little person who walks back and forth."
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH41gGBVpkE
         | 
         | His last Video. Aug. 11, 2018.
        
           | causality0 wrote:
           | I'm amazed there are Terry Davis quotes that are SFW.
        
             | s5300 wrote:
             | There are actually quite a lot. Some with real wisdom in
             | them.
             | 
             | Take a look at his original account on here and you will
             | find some - but also, there are many videos in which he has
             | lasting moments of lucidity. Typically when talking about
             | his old hobbies and passions.
             | 
             | Completely normal and not even slightly unhinged
             | conversation - one would never know he was otherwise the
             | ways he were.
        
             | St_Alfonzo wrote:
             | I know what you mean, but it was mostly because of his
             | illness that he had phases where he talked only conspiracy
             | theories ("The CIA ni*as glow in the dark"). He had phases
             | where he talked many subject with full awareness of his own
             | illness and without cursing.
             | 
             | Here some philosophical stuff: Bird Analogy:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmltIMPMeP0 On Reality:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-SJKJnZ9cg
             | 
             | Here is a two part interview where he talks computer
             | science stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXwNTw4I6Ok
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiRWN5T0Gw
        
               | causality0 wrote:
               | The glowies I get being a symptom. I'm not sure I buy the
               | idea that someone is only super racist when they're
               | having an episode, though. Plenty of his rants about
               | black people had nothing to do with conspiracy theories.
               | I'm not denying he was brilliant.
        
               | richbell wrote:
               | > I'm not sure I buy the idea that someone is only super
               | racist when they're having an episode, though.
               | 
               | It's a fairly well-documented phenomenon that people
               | suffering from things like dimensia or alzheimers will
               | behave inappropriately, in ways they wouldn't have
               | earlier in life.
               | 
               | Whether they're expressing deep-seated beliefs or simply
               | no longer able to filter invasive thoughts is hard to
               | say. The brain is a complex system and damage caused by
               | trauma or exposure to lead, for example, can also cause
               | increased impulsiveness and social aggression.
               | 
               | I can't imagine how terrifying it must be to slowly lose
               | control of your mind and 'self'.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | Schizophrenic people mimic their media environment.
               | Schizophrenic people not surrounded by racism don't
               | invent racist theories.
        
       | delusional wrote:
       | I guess we are talking about Terry again.
       | 
       | Terry was my first look into how mean the internet is. Here was a
       | man, wicked smart, but with some very clear issues. He was kind
       | enough to share himself with all of us, producing videos and
       | putting his work out there but Instead of engaging with him while
       | recognizing his limitations, we mocked him. People turned up to
       | prod him to say "CIA N...". They asked him the same 5 questions
       | to bait him into saying something stupid. It was honestly
       | horrible.
       | 
       | Learning of Terry marked the end of my internet innocence.
       | Suddenly it wasn't just fun and games, but real people with real
       | lives.
        
         | 6stringmerc wrote:
         | If you think that watch was tough, go watch the documentary
         | Stevie for even further exploration of the sheer out of sight
         | out of mind realities that are too difficult as problems to
         | bring up usually.
        
       | rincewind wrote:
       | I was asking myself: Why? Isn't this in bad taste? Isn't this
       | continuing a meme long after it has turned from funny to sad?
       | 
       | I am sure the answer is just because we can, just for fun, to
       | make it more accessible. But I kind of wish there was an answer
       | to that question in the README or on the site.
        
         | Lapsa wrote:
         | well... it's not quite just a meme. I've always found dude more
         | inspirational than funny
        
           | tluyben2 wrote:
           | Yep, most people focused on his illness and his nsfw speak
           | and postings; I always just focused on the technical. The guy
           | was a tech genius.
        
         | nix23 wrote:
         | >Isn't this in bad taste? Isn't this continuing a meme long
         | after it has turned from funny to sad?
         | 
         | The OS contains genius ideas, it's not called "TempleOS" it is
         | public domain, the devel workflow is the same..i think it keeps
         | one of Terry's good sides alive...i would be honored.
        
         | nazgulsenpai wrote:
         | Its a fascinating bare metal OS written by one man complete
         | with development tools. If anything its a testament to his
         | brilliance.
        
         | s5300 wrote:
         | Hey look, another asshole (on HN) who thinks Terry & his both
         | unfortunate & unavoidable life circumstances were just a sad,
         | funny, meme.
         | 
         | Here's an old comment from Terry I wish he could say to you for
         | your tone & feelings towards him.
         | 
         | >>"STFU. When you can work bigger miracles than I, you can open
         | your mouth."
        
         | farhaven wrote:
         | I think Terry would be happy that people want to tinker with
         | what he built even after his death. I mean, he explicitly built
         | it as a sort of throw-back to the early home computer days.
        
       | scaredginger wrote:
       | Blasphemy
        
         | rightbyte wrote:
         | Ye I don't think network capability fits the design philosophy
         | really.
        
           | krapp wrote:
           | The "design philosophy" behind TempleOS was schizophrenic
           | delusion, there's no reason anyone else concerned about the
           | value of the code, rather than "creating God's temple on
           | Earth" or whatever, needs to concern themselves with those
           | aspects of it.
        
             | scaredginger wrote:
             | Perhaps Temple OS shouldn't be evaluated by ordinary
             | software standards. It is more or less useless as a general
             | purpose operating system. It may have value in education,
             | but in my opinion, it should be treated as an artwork when
             | assessing its merit
        
               | MichaelCollins wrote:
               | From what I understand, Terry was trying to capture the
               | magic of early personal computers, hence no virtual
               | memory or process isolation. A low-stakes environment for
               | hobbyists and tinkerers to play around in. Adding network
               | support raises the stakes a bit.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | > The "design philosophy" behind TempleOS was schizophrenic
             | delusion
             | 
             | Forking TempleOS and working on it is the fetishization of
             | schizophrenic delusion, so at the least it should stay
             | consistent with the schizophrenic's clearly expressed ends.
             | If people want to do their own thing, they should come up
             | with their own thing.
        
             | hutzlibu wrote:
             | I do not think the post you replied to, had this as the
             | intention. It was a response to the clearly ironic (and
             | funny) "blasphemous" comment..
        
               | scaredginger wrote:
               | Why, thank you
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | julienreszka wrote:
       | It has networking. Sacrilege
        
       | v3ss0n wrote:
       | Is it glowing too?
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | What's reality? I don't know. When my bird was looking at my
       | computer monitor I thought, 'That bird has no idea what he's
       | looking at.' And yet what does the bird do? Does he panic? No, he
       | can't really panic, he just does the best he can. Is he able to
       | live in a world where he's so ignorant? Well, he doesn't really
       | have a choice. The bird is okay even though he doesn't understand
       | the world. You're that bird looking at the monitor, and you're
       | thinking to yourself, 'I can figure this out.' Maybe you have
       | some bird ideas. Maybe that's the best you can do.
       | 
       | My favorite quote from a Terry not Pratchett.
        
         | MonitorBird wrote:
         | This was such an amazing comment I had to make an account just
         | to let you know and thank you
        
       | mananaysiempre wrote:
       | Also posted yesterday: "A constructive look at TempleOS (2015)"
       | (3 comments), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33576385.
        
         | CodeArtisan wrote:
         | Linus Tech Tips did a video back in 2020,
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtlyeDAJR7A
        
       | jpgvm wrote:
       | RIP Terry, beautiful but troubled genius.
        
       | skissane wrote:
       | Another, similar project: https://github.com/minexew/Shrine
        
         | andai wrote:
         | I wonder how much is compatible between these projects. I think
         | the binaries from each should run on the other. Though some
         | features probably required changes to the kernel.
        
         | Rendello wrote:
         | I worked on the history system to Shrine's shell (Lsh) in 2020.
         | Development of Shrine is stalled currently so the changes never
         | propagated to Shrine proper.
         | 
         | I would call Shrine a fairly minimalist fork, in that there's a
         | lot built on top of TempleOS, but the core is mostly the same.
         | A more minimalist fork is TinkerOS, which is a lot closer to
         | stock TempleOS but with bugfixes, modern hardware support, and
         | some software packages added.
         | 
         | ZealOS is a maximalist fork, changing the core of TempleOS
         | everywhere the authors see fit. Nothing wrong with that either.
         | 
         | The fork authors are in contact with each other and discuss
         | ideas / share code occasionally.
         | 
         | Lsh's repo: https://github.com/minexew/Lsh
         | 
         | TinkerOS: https://github.com/tinkeros/TinkerOS
        
       | s5300 wrote:
        
         | isitmadeofglass wrote:
         | What do you mean? He was always treated with respect and
         | admiration on HN, with an understanding of his personal
         | difficulties.
         | 
         | I think your conflating the treatment he received here with how
         | he was treated on Reddit.
        
           | SquareWheel wrote:
           | His work was commended, and his racist comments were
           | downmodded and flagged. The responses were pretty
           | proportional, all things considered.
           | 
           | The most awkward part was when people would talk about him as
           | if he weren't active in the threads.
        
             | glowingnegro wrote:
             | No, he was hellbanned. His comments were automatically
             | marked dead no matter what he was saying. It was a huge
             | mark of disrespect towards him, isolating him and
             | belittling him like this. No doubt worsening his mental
             | state. The moderators of HN have blood on their hands.
        
               | phpnode wrote:
               | The vouch button exists on this site because of Terry,
               | and I think it's a pragmatic solution to the problem
        
               | SquareWheel wrote:
               | Blaming an internet moderator for driving someone to
               | suicide by simply enforcing community standards is
               | extremely callous. You're actually doing more damage with
               | your moral judgement by trying to bring down someone
               | else.
               | 
               | Now I read many of Terry's comments without ever turning
               | on showdead. Even if he were hellbanned, it would've been
               | a consequence of his actions regardless of the reasons
               | behind them.
               | 
               | But maybe it's not even worth responding to somebody who
               | creates a throwaway to make such statements.
        
           | s5300 wrote:
           | This is incorrect. You can very simply go find that out with
           | your own time.
           | 
           | Happy to be downvoted into the ground for my earlier
           | statement.
           | 
           | He deserved so much better.
        
             | codetrotter wrote:
             | His first account was
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=losethos
             | 
             | His mental illness was not his fault. But it is also
             | understandable that when someone uses the n-word, they will
             | get downvoted and banned, even when it's not their fault.
        
             | IntelMiner wrote:
             | This isn't Reddit. Please don't blather on about
             | "downvotes"
             | 
             | If you would like to contribute _constructively_ to the
             | discussion you 're welcome to cite comments that you feel
             | HN have censored in some way
             | 
             | EDIT: Fixed a typo
        
               | s5300 wrote:
               | You've clearly missed the point.
               | 
               | All I'm doing is paying my respects to a hyper-
               | intelligent genius who was driven to suicide partially
               | because of this website.
        
               | hutzlibu wrote:
               | So you think, HN should have made an exception for him to
               | allow his racist posts to be in the open?
               | 
               | Or to hire one person for him, reviewing all comments
               | from him and filtering out the worst?
               | 
               | And assuming this is really what you think, how long till
               | the next poor racist genious shows up, demanding equal
               | rights?
               | 
               | Would you be able to operate a forum like that?
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | I think the first half of your post is fine, but...
               | 
               | > And assuming this is really what you think, how long
               | till the next poor racist genious shows up, demanding
               | equal rights?
               | 
               | > Would you be able to operate a forum like that?
               | 
               | Can you name three others? Even one? I don't think "there
               | will be too many" is a remotely realistic worry.
        
               | s5300 wrote:
               | No, with response to the comment about the "downvote"
               | mention - (My "You've clearly missed the point")
               | 
               | Mentioning downvotes on HN is incredibly stupid, & if you
               | comb through my past comments, you can see me calling
               | people out for it.
               | 
               | In this very specific & nuanced situation, though - I am
               | using it to mock & make clear my utter contempt & hatred
               | of those who did view Terry as a sad, funny meme, & were
               | laughing all along the way while watching his downward
               | spiral, which culminated in his suicide.
               | 
               | Many of those, still on here & reading this thread, will
               | essentially want to mock my kindness towards Terry & his
               | tormented life. & calling that out is my personal fuck
               | you to them.
               | 
               | No comment regarding anything else in your response.
        
           | Morgawr wrote:
           | Every comment I remember of him on HN threads were all
           | hidden, downvoted and flagged. Now, to be perfectly clear,
           | most of them were completely deranged and absolutely
           | unrelated (usually a lot of stuff about god and bible etc
           | etc) and he clearly was not sane of mind, but saying that he
           | was treated "with respect and admiration" is a huge stretch.
           | 
           | People admired his work and acknowledged the existence of his
           | project. People talked about it a lot and it was definitely
           | interesting to see develop. However the _person_ himself was
           | definitely not welcome on HN (and I can 't really fault that
           | logic).
        
             | threatofrain wrote:
             | The net attitude of HN is one of admiration for Terry
             | because he's more talented than most of us. I think the
             | biggest thing that affected Terry on this site was being
             | hell-banned.
        
               | s5300 wrote:
               | For most, it wasn't admiration, it was jealousy. Hateful
               | jealousy.
        
             | Beltalowda wrote:
             | I don't think that banning someone who repeatedly posts
             | "completely deranged and absolutely unrelated" material is
             | _not_ treating them with respect. You don 't have to look
             | very far before he starts calling things CIA nigger
             | brainwashing, and stuff like that.
        
               | MichaelCollins wrote:
               | This site was better with him on it. So what if he said a
               | lot of crazy things? If you let a crazy guy offend you, I
               | think that's a "you problem." He did not have the
               | position or power to act on his prejudices; he wasn't
               | hurting anybody in any real way. Posting here obviously
               | meant something to him, since he kept coming back and
               | creating new accounts. It was cruel to shut him out.
        
               | Beltalowda wrote:
               | People aware of Terry's condition might be willing to put
               | up with his antics, but that's a minority. Everyone else
               | just sees this crazy stuff being posted.
        
               | Shared404 wrote:
               | I'd respectfully disagree.
               | 
               | Propagation of harmful sentiments from anyone, but
               | especially someone who (rightfully) inspires admiration
               | will spread those further to people who are easily
               | influenced or unable to separate a technical brilliance
               | from someones capabilities in the rest of their life.
               | 
               | To be clear - Terry remains an inspiration to me, but I
               | can understand the predicament of a moderator who needs
               | to maintain a space.
        
       | jonsen wrote:
       | Terry Davis was the main reason I chose to permanently have
       | showdead: [yes]
        
       | wkdneidbwf wrote:
       | this potentially qualifies as blasphemy so i should probably
       | steer clear
        
       | imiric wrote:
       | It's great to see that Terry's legacy lives on.
       | 
       | He was an incredibly gifted, yet equally troubled, individual,
       | with some noble goals for what computing should look like. There
       | are many good ideas in TempleOS we can all be inspired from, and
       | I'm glad there are people working on expanding and making them
       | more accessible.
        
       | m0llusk wrote:
       | Nifty, but that font rendering burns my eyes. Might it workout
       | both technically and philosophically to pipe all the text output
       | through LaTeX or some similar thing?
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | Terry had schizophrenia and lived with his elderly parents while
       | developing his OS.
       | 
       | Then, Internet trolls targeted Terry because of his controversial
       | remarks.
       | 
       | The trolls celebrated all of his questionable actions, ruining
       | his relationship with his parents who eventually kicked him out
       | of the house. At that point he became homeless, living in a car.
       | 
       | Because of his mental condition, he broke the law in several
       | occasions. In his late videos he can be seen unshaved and having
       | difficulties to keep personal hygiene, unlike before he became
       | homeless, where he was always shaved and clean.
       | 
       | Not so long after becoming homeless he died killed by a train and
       | some believe it was suicide.
        
         | 6stringmerc wrote:
         | Probably a suicide.
         | 
         | Nearly half of all train related deaths are suicides.
         | 
         | Way to go Terry, thinking of yourself yet again, make the
         | locomotive engineer live with turning your shitty melon into a
         | popped boil.
        
       | voidz wrote:
       | Terry Davis was clearly the mad scientist we didn't know we
       | needed. He brought many useful insights to OS development. Maybe
       | one day the seeds he planted will grow out to become a wonderful
       | tree. On days when he wasn't hampered by his medical issues some
       | people remember him to be an extremely skilled teacher, patient
       | with people who asked genuine questions. There was that side to
       | him too.
        
       | HeckFeck wrote:
       | The fact that GitHub identifies HolyC as a proglang is
       | magnificent.
        
         | 2333583089 wrote:
         | That didn't last long.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | It's there for me. As I type this, ZealOS is 98.1% HolyC.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-13 23:02 UTC)