[HN Gopher] Growing a Home Apothecary
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       Growing a Home Apothecary
        
       Author : dnetesn
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2022-11-10 10:53 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (worldsensorium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (worldsensorium.com)
        
       | teslabox wrote:
       | In March 2020 I had a chronic cough - not an infection, just an
       | itch that could only be scratched with a cough. "people are going
       | to think I'm trying to kill them."
       | 
       | An old herbal treatment for the lungs is inhaling the fumes of
       | apple brandy from a charred oak keg. Ethanol is an antiseptic,
       | while the apple and oak flavoring compounds help stimulate the
       | lungs to repair themselves.
       | 
       | Since I've started huffing on apple brandy, the itch in my lungs
       | is much better than it used to be.
       | 
       | The charred oak keg is important, because it facilitates the
       | evaporation of the brandy into fumes. Someone shared that they
       | use oak spirals in a glass container:
       | https://www.facebook.com/EdgarCayceOnPsychicHealth/posts/pfb...
       | 
       | My mom's husband tested positive for the virus recently. She
       | developed a cough, but 'tested negative' (home tests are probably
       | mostly worthless). After a month she was still coughing. I set
       | her up with a barrel and sent her husband to the liquor store for
       | apple brandy. Her cough was mostly cleared up in a week. Then she
       | got sick again, but this cleared up quicker than her September
       | case of "not-coronavirus".
       | 
       | edit: treating lungs with inhaled alcohol is science-approved:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22756511
        
       | JPLeRouzic wrote:
       | It would be nice to mine Pubmed to search for tuples (plant,
       | disease, administration mode, contraindications, side effects)
        
         | hosh wrote:
         | Being able to do stuff like this was the point of the semantic
         | web. That was supposed to be Web 3.0.
         | 
         | To be fair, according to a write up by a guy deep in the
         | semantic web, there were several choices made that lead to the
         | collapse of the first attempt.
        
           | JPLeRouzic wrote:
           | >> _semantic web_
           | 
           | In principle this is a great topic. I got some interest in
           | the semantic web technologies in early 2000'.
           | 
           | My conclusions were that:
           | 
           | - The approach was extremely rigid, basically all info (data
           | and metadata) had to be classified mostly in a hierarchical
           | way (first order logic) with only a few exceptions when most
           | real life cases were unable to fit in this scheme.
           | 
           | - Companies in Semantic Web just sold search. Classification
           | was often done by hand or by "connectors" that had to be
           | chosen or even tailored by hand.
           | 
           | A few years later search technologies were much more powerful
           | and AI enabled impressive results in classification.
           | 
           | That said some projects like Cyc were impressive.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc
        
             | hosh wrote:
             | I think the query language was capable of remapping data
             | into a different schema, but it suffered from its own
             | design.
        
       | CursedUrn wrote:
       | Do those plants really cure those things listed in the article?
        
         | Tao3300 wrote:
         | It'd be nice to have some linked studies, wouldn't it?
        
           | LinuxBender wrote:
           | It would be nice but factoring in costs and profits I doubt
           | that will happen unless some curious and incredibly wealthy
           | philanthropist contributed to some research. About 15 years
           | of experimenting on myself has bypassed my own personal need
           | for studies and I am entirely off all prescription
           | medications. It was not easy and I made a few mistakes along
           | the way, but have very few regrets.
        
         | luminouslow wrote:
         | Yes, what do you think they make modern medicine out of? Most
         | of the time a plant is the base for it.
        
           | zasdffaa wrote:
           | I think 'yes' is too broad a claim.
        
         | zasdffaa wrote:
         | See my other comment. But where they don't I'm sure they make a
         | fine placebo.
        
         | hosh wrote:
         | I think the better frame is not to see this as the plant acting
         | upon the disease or symptoms, but rather, assisting the body's
         | own natural capacity for regeneration and healing.
        
         | Entinel wrote:
         | I'm not willing to say all of these "cure" but most modern
         | medicines take an active ingredient from a plant and synthesize
         | it in larger quantities. Some of the one listed here are ones I
         | do myself. Mint for nausea, chamomile, and lemon balm to sleep
         | for example.
        
         | tsol wrote:
         | They don't cure the illness, they only help to treat it.
         | Generally herbal medications are milder and need to be taken
         | for a longer time. I find they can be fairly effective.
         | Sometimes, though, what people say should work doesn't work and
         | you need to go find something stronger at the pharmacy.
        
       | Tao3300 wrote:
       | Kind of irresponsible not to list contraindications (e.g.
       | chamomile shouldn't be used during pregnancy) as well as the lack
       | of a disclaimer disavowing medical claims and advice.
        
       | luminouslow wrote:
       | In medieval Europa monasteries were required since Pope Gregor to
       | grow a number of medicinal plants to ensure that the population
       | has access to medicine. While i am not an opponent of modern
       | medicine, it is kind of sad how little modern humans use the
       | remedies nature provides.
       | 
       | Search for monastery medicine for more info.
        
         | bschwarz wrote:
         | There is also the capitulare de villis[0] from around AD 800.
         | The German Wikipedia entry has a well formatted list of all the
         | plants and trees. Very interesting!
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitulare_de_villis
        
           | luminouslow wrote:
           | Wow I did not know that list was on wikipedia - thanks for
           | sharing
        
         | zasdffaa wrote:
         | We probably haven't lost as much as you think - we either still
         | use it or it was bunkum (for a given application).
         | 
         | eg. Chamomile - still used for bad stomachs (is a costive),
         | whether it works on herpes simplex seems really dubious.
        
           | luminouslow wrote:
           | Agreed! In a lot of areas that knowledge is still alive and
           | well, not least in cooking. I think food can still have a lot
           | of healing properties.
           | 
           | Often modern medicine is based on these plants. And of course
           | there are modern treatments that go way beyond what we were
           | able to achieve with just plant-based medicine.
        
         | jalk wrote:
         | Is it naive to think that clinical trials have show that modern
         | medicine is more effective? And the active molecules in those
         | plants have been identified and can probably in many cases be
         | synthesized more easily than extracted from the plants.
        
           | mtrpcic wrote:
           | While I think the assessment that modern medicine is more
           | effective, and often stands on the shoulders of these types
           | of historically used plants, not everyone has safe access to
           | modern medicine (either because "modern" medical treatments
           | aren't available where they're located, lack of finances to
           | pay for it in egregiously overpriced areas, or general
           | mistreatment by the medical community). Using alternatives,
           | while not as refined or high quality, is better than nothing.
        
             | vorpalhex wrote:
             | Except those alternatives will kill you dead if mishandled.
             | 
             | This isn't a choice between "cough medicine" and "slightly
             | less effective cough medicine", it's a choice between a
             | controlled and inspected product and random plants that may
             | or may not be the right genus, dose and concentration.
        
             | Cass wrote:
             | In areas so remote that modern medical treatments aren't
             | available at all, people do often still grow their own
             | medical plants.
             | 
             | If lack of finances is an issue, growing your own herb
             | garden certainly isn't the solution. These plants aren't
             | going to replace a $500 shot of insulin. At best you could
             | maybe replace the occasional aspirin, dramamine, or
             | buscopan, all of which are available over the counter at
             | price points much lower than what it would cost to even buy
             | a bag of quality seeds, never mind soil, fertilizer, and
             | the garden to plant it all in. (Or the time and labor to
             | plant and tend it).
        
           | hosh wrote:
           | I don't think modern medicine has really taken a close look
           | at synergistic effects of combinations of active ingredients.
           | Our bodies are complex living systems, and it's naive to
           | think that our crude approach to pharmaceuticals -- where we
           | treat the body as a complicated, rather than complex system
           | -- is working well.
           | 
           | Furthermore, this kind of tech requires expertise that is not
           | easily decentralized. As such, it tends centralize power and
           | control of one's health in a civilization. The civilization
           | needs to educate and produce a few to be able to serve the
           | many, leaving aside the number of tech dependencies in order
           | to produce facilities that produce this, let alone the
           | research organizations to continue studying this stuff. It
           | does not make for a resilient, anti-fragile civilization.
        
           | tsol wrote:
           | Yes and no. If I'm nauseous I can take a little ginger, but
           | there isn't really an comparable over the counter anti-nausea
           | med. There's dimenhydrinate for motion sickness, but that's
           | different. Ondansetron is a prescription only anti-nausea med
           | that's very effective, but obviously much harder to obtain.
           | So modern medicine is more effective, only for the proper
           | indication and when a 'modern' treatment is easily available.
           | Sometimes just grabbing some ginger ale is the smart choice.
        
             | GordonS wrote:
             | I take ginger for sea sickness and motion sickness - it's
             | efficacy is pretty incredible!
        
       | boomskats wrote:
       | Something worth remembering when criticising traditional herbal
       | medicine for its lack of double blind clinical trials, is that
       | clinical trials cost serious money.
       | 
       | It's unfortunate, but with the way things work in the western
       | world currently, it isn't in anyone's commercial interest to
       | invest in proving the efficacy of any of these herbal remedies.
       | They aren't patentable (because they're plants and because
       | there's prior art), so even if you were to sponsor a trial that
       | statistically proves a remedy as effective, there is nothing to
       | stop your competition - established pharmaceutical manufacturers
       | - from jumping on the bandwagon and eating your lunch. It just
       | doesn't make commercial sense for anyone to invest time in them.
       | 
       | I'm not here trying to insist that big pharma out to suppress
       | natural medicines or whatever, or that it's some big conspiracy
       | (or that it's not). I'm just pointing out that there's a logical,
       | commercial reason that the we don't categorically know how
       | effective these plants are. There are many examples of this with
       | non-organic compounds also, that have shown therapeutic potential
       | but are no longer studied for their benefits because too old to
       | be protected by a patent.
        
         | AA-BA-94-2A-56 wrote:
         | Thanks for this comment. I had never even considered that the
         | myopia produced by market forces on academia was the cause of
         | this. I have written off natural remedies my entire life,
         | mostly because my mother was into them, and she administered a
         | lot of them as I grew up with what seemed like limited
         | effectiveness.
         | 
         | That said, I'll definitely keep more of an open mind now.
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | _established pharmaceutical manufacturers - from jumping on the
         | bandwagon and eating your lunch_
         | 
         | Some pharma labs already do this. Most of the 50 supplements I
         | take are made by the same labs that make prescription drugs. On
         | the plus side, they are very good at consistent measurements.
         | On the minus side, some of the supplements I take were actually
         | drugs that failed approval. They still work for what I use them
         | for, but not for what they were intended. I've come to
         | understand they make just as much money from supplements as
         | they do from prescription drugs given they do not have to pass
         | the same scrutiny as prescription drugs. I use a red leaf
         | extract that was meant to be a blood pressure drug but I can
         | see why it failed as it is the most powerful diuretic I have
         | ever used, meaning one can not sleep when using it.
         | 
         | One of my favorite examples _that I do not use_ is Viagra. It
         | was also meant to be a blood pressure drug but failed. It had a
         | unique side effect which led to a marketing team coming up with
         | the term  "Erectile Dysfunction" which is now considered a
         | medical term.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | >It's unfortunate, but with the way things work in the western
         | world currently, it isn't in anyone's commercial interest to
         | invest in proving the efficacy of any of these herbal remedies.
         | 
         | this is where i'd hope a prestigious medical school would step
         | in to do the studies.
        
       | i_like_apis wrote:
       | "Apothecary" would suggest some exciting plants that have
       | interesting effects. These are mostly boring plants with nice
       | scents that you find in many "gardens".
        
       | oblib wrote:
       | I'll chime in for raw honey even though it's not a plant. About
       | 12-15 years ago I started getting pain in my right shoulder. This
       | went on for about 6 months. My wife and friends and my doctor
       | told me it was "bursitis" and I'd need an operation to get rid of
       | it. Back then going to the doctor was the leading cause of
       | avoidable death so I wasn't keen on getting that operation (it's
       | now the 3rd leading cause of avoidable death).
       | 
       | I was whining about it one day to a friend of mine who was in his
       | 70s and had been a pilot for the military and flew missions all
       | over the world. He learned on lot doing that. He told me "Raw
       | honey will cure that if you take a tablespoon every day for a few
       | weeks" and explained it was actually an infection that the honey
       | would kill.
       | 
       | He was right. I bought some honey from a local bee keeper and it
       | was exactly two weeks later that the pain was entirely gone.
       | Right about that time a neighbor of mine stopped by and mentioned
       | he was going to the hospital for an operation for the same thing
       | in two weeks. I told him about the honey and he got some from the
       | same bee keeper and it cured him too.
       | 
       | Most doctors won't tell you raw honey will cure that. Most
       | probably don't even know it will.
        
         | BiteCode_dev wrote:
         | Same story but with propolis.
        
       | boardwaalk wrote:
       | An apothecary is a person -- or an establishment where such a
       | person works -- not a garden. Odd use of the word.
        
         | Tao3300 wrote:
         | Did it make sense? Were you still able to understand?
        
         | jeffalyanak wrote:
         | It's a bit weird, but makes sense as a rhetorical device. It's
         | sort of like saying "Growing your own vegetable market".
         | 
         | It's not literally true, but it expresses the idea that you are
         | growing a wide variety of things that one would find at a
         | vegatable market.
        
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