[HN Gopher] Downbeat delays are a key component of swing in jazz
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Downbeat delays are a key component of swing in jazz
Author : ohjeez
Score : 45 points
Date : 2022-11-11 15:46 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
| jollyllama wrote:
| > An interactive tool with audio examples demonstrating
| downbeats, offbeats, and different swing ratios can be found on
| our website (https://www.ds.mpg.de/swing/swingratio).
|
| This is great!
| danrochman wrote:
| Great resource - thanks!!
| adrianmonk wrote:
| I decided to open pandora's box and experience a ratio less
| than 1.
|
| I set it to 0.7 and listened, and now my brain hurts a lot.
| Geee wrote:
| This demonstrates the basic component of swing - off-beat
| delays. As the article explains, this is not enough, but there
| should also be additional down-beat delays for the soloist.
| Thus, the soloist and the rhythm section play with slightly
| different swing ratios.
| wrycoder wrote:
| About 1.3 sounds optimal to me.
| jollyllama wrote:
| 2.5 is the most danceable IMO
| jefftk wrote:
| Closer to 2 sounds better to me; I wonder if it's that so
| much of the "swung" stuff I've been playing in the last few
| years is really jigs (and so naturally close to 1:2)
| kazinator wrote:
| The most noticeable, iconic component of swing is the upbeat
| delays, of course.
|
| Actually this subtlety with the downbeats could be one of the
| differences between "smooth jazz" and the real thing. Smooth Jazz
| tunes use pop beats. There may be swing, but the downbeat in that
| musical format is typically mechanically steady.
| the_cat_kittles wrote:
| swing comes from way more than implying 12/8 or however you want
| to charachterize shortening the ands- its also how you phrase,
| its your volume, and your articulation. some basic ideas here:
| https://youtu.be/Fg_W-t_WBBc
|
| but its also about where you sit in the beat, and how you push
| and pull. i think ethan iverson said something like "a mans
| eighth notes are between him and god". ultimately trying to
| explain swing is like trying to say why a face is pretty...
| theres some basic ideas, but they only account for part of it
| aczerepinski wrote:
| Not conveyed in the title: this is the soloist's note placement
| in relation to the drummer's. I'd be surprised if this wasn't
| also true in non-swing styles like rock, etc where "front line"
| instruments get their time cues from the bass and drums. What
| feels like perfect synchronization to me is in reality a 20ms
| delay.
| xavriley wrote:
| Someone in my PhD lab looked at this and commented that they
| weren't that impressed. The authors didn't account for the fact
| that ballads and uptempo numbers have vastly different swing
| ratios (in both cases practically straight) which skews the
| results. I think rhythmic phenomena and perception are worthy of
| study but this isn't a great example imo
| adfm wrote:
| Doesn't matter if it's sweet or hot, just give it everything
| you've got.
|
| Also, while we're on the subject, check out J Dilla's body of
| work. A true maestro gone too soon. RIP.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_Dilla
| jjulius wrote:
| A discussion involving swung time and J Dilla needs a Chris
| "Daddy" Dave mention, too. That dude is in a different universe
| from the rest of us when it comes to time.
| [deleted]
| analog31 wrote:
| Jazz bassist here. If I take my time from the band, everything
| slows down. I have to follow my own internal time clock in order
| to maintain a steady tempo. Or, the rhythm section has to do so
| as a unit.
| tunesmith wrote:
| There's the whole concept of "ahead" or "behind", although as a
| keyboardist it's never been clear to me which to go for.
| Sometimes a tension is counseled, like bass being ahead of the
| beat and soloist being behind. Or it can be tempo-specific.
| Curious if you can share more along those lines from a bass
| perspective?
| jjulius wrote:
| Former Jazz bassist as well. Blew my mind when I was in school,
| all of my teachers insisted that I was the timekeeper, not the
| drummer. The band might listen to the drummer, but the drummer
| needed to listen to me.
|
| Once I left school, it quickly became apparent that each band
| has their own preference for who they should follow. But, that
| pressure on me really gave me a _strong_ sense of time and
| rhythm that I tremendously appreciate to this day.
| aczerepinski wrote:
| relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfr_dEzmFaU
| kerblang wrote:
| One has to ask: What about bass solos?
|
| (I like bass solos)
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