[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How do I find my "purpose"?
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Ask HN: How do I find my "purpose"?
(This is a serious question, despite my username) There are plenty
of studies that show that having a "purpose" and working after it
is correlated with higher happiness or well being. "Purpose" is
vague enough, so to make things worse I am going to conflate it
with "life meaning", "calling" or "personal values". I recently
came across the Japanese "Ikigai" which seems related. Ok, I buy
this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value"
thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find mine? I think this
is the kind of thing a fair amount of people here in HN have
thought about, so I thought of asking. Is there any research that
goes into what is "purpose" and how to figure it out? I've come
across plenty that talks about how good it is, but nothing that
goes into how to find it. Any serious books that you may recommend?
Author : trollerator23
Score : 65 points
Date : 2022-11-09 17:12 UTC (5 hours ago)
| sgbeal wrote:
| > I think this is the kind of thing a fair amount of people here
| in HN have thought about, so I thought of asking.
|
| It would truly surprise me if many people _actively_ find their
| purpose, and it would surprise me almost as much if most people
| find theirs at all. Mine, i discovered rather by accident while
| not thinking about it at all. Instead, it simply occurred to me
| one day that i had found, and been living, my purpose for a good
| long while before realizing it.
| adityam582y wrote:
| Good to hear that. How did it happen? Any suggestions to move
| towards that direction? If you feel comfortable, you can share
| your purpose finding journey. And what happened next?
| sgbeal wrote:
| > How did it happen?
|
| i was walking down the road doing something completely
| unrelated, not thinking about anything in particular, and it
| hit me.
|
| > Any suggestions to move towards that direction?
|
| If it doesn't happen on its own, it seems unlikely to me to
| ever happen. It's like falling in love: if you look for it,
| if you try to force it, it's not going to work.
|
| > If you feel comfortable, you can share your purpose finding
| journey.
|
| My purpose is not to change the world, but to support those
| who do. i've spent approximately a quarter of my life
| supporting/contributing to Richard Hipp's projects (mainly
| the Fossil SCM and, more recently, sqlite), and have found
| that niche to fit my purpose perfectly. It was, however, only
| about a year ago that i realized that that was my purpose.
|
| > And what happened next?
|
| Same thing as the day before: keep contributing.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "How do I find my "purpose"?"
|
| You don't. Nobody has a purpose. Life is only what you make it,
| within the confines of the circumstances. If you want to assign a
| purpose, you can, but that's just bias or artificial labels.
| JALTU wrote:
| Serious comment, no judgment meant or implied to you or others:
| As one who grew up without the usual structures of family or
| cultural supports, and who banged up against cultural guardrails
| more than a few times, consider the idea that books may help and
| the chosen author's angle on the question of purpose still boils
| down to what are you going to do today?
|
| If you can at least mentally strip away the comforts of your
| life, what will you do to survive, assuming you want to succeed
| (on your terms, not the world's) at something that gets you up in
| the morning? You'll probably begin to ask yourself what am I good
| at, what do I want to learn, how can I learn it? Reality is a
| constraint, and you have to figure that out.
|
| This may not work for people in certain mental states or stages
| in life, but I hope this helps.
| nxqs wrote:
| Ask an expert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkSFIWzi7aA
| nxqs wrote:
| And another one: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy
| pimlottc wrote:
| Try a bunch of different things. See which ones resonate. Talk to
| lots of people, learn about new things to try. Adjust your
| direction and try some more. Repeat as needed (or until death).
| morgango wrote:
| Kinda boomerish but a great one nonetheless - Zen and the Art of
| Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig .
|
| I don't think that a purpose is particularly helpful for people.
| If you don't have one, then live your life as well as you can and
| you will see patterns emerge. Follow them, be yourself even when
| it is hard. Good luck!
| chrispeel wrote:
| I suggest that you _create_ a purpose for your life, rather than
| finding it.
| daniel71l wrote:
| Would you be interested in another opinion?
|
| Purpose is the reason you had your own "hero" story
|
| The unique road you had from your birth till now gave you the
| strengths and uniqueness to do something you are capable of
|
| I work with engineers to find the balance, and to identify your
| own calling or purpose
|
| should you be interested, my email is in my profile and we can
| schedule a 22 min call
| shrimpx wrote:
| Purpose: Commit to something and stick to it.
|
| We can easily wallow in a sea of possibility and never commit to
| anything, because whatever you commit to is at the expense of
| other things you could have done.
|
| So we sit there considering and reconsidering the possibilities
| and looking for new ones. The implicit hope is that one will show
| up that is so much brighter than the rest that it'll absolve us
| from the burden of commitment.
|
| That's a mirage. Decide what you want to be and commit to it.
| [deleted]
| sunderw wrote:
| I think the words "meaning" and "calling" are a bit strong. They
| all kind of imply the notion that there is one thing that will
| make you happy and that you have to find it. In reality, I think
| there are lots of different (company, position) that can make you
| happy.
|
| You also used the word "value", which I think is more on point.
|
| We all have a different set of values. If you do things that are
| in conflict with those values, you will feel bad. So finding a
| job where the most important values you have are fulfilled is a
| key point to being happy.
|
| I don't have any particular resource, but I think there must be a
| lot of books on how to find and understand those values. I
| personnally worked on that with a therapist.
|
| My example :
|
| I was working in a 45k-employee engineering service company (not
| sure of the english translation), where I was working on an ERP
| software for (military) aviation. The tech stack and the human
| organization was terrible.
|
| It conflicted with some of my values (knowledge, peace,
| creativity, autonomy...) and was starting to make me feel anxious
| and angry. I also felt that what I did had no real purpose.
|
| I knew I needed a place where kindness and knowledge were
| important. When I finally found that, working in a place were I
| feel the end product makes the world better, my life really was
| better.
| snailkite wrote:
| I find that there's too much emphasis on "finding your bliss." My
| 'purpose' is to negate other's control over me. Wealth is
| independence, so my jobs are income (not status) generators. At
| the beginning of my career I consistently asked for higher pay &
| left if refused. Over time, the greater my wealth, the greater my
| ability to say "no," and conversely the better employers have
| treated me. I'm offered promotions, stock options, etc without
| asking for them and I basically do what I want and get paid well
| for it. So my negative purpose, avoiding being controlled, has
| worked out for me.
| jjgreen wrote:
| Life is what happens while you're waiting for it to start.
| hindsightbias wrote:
| "Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans."
|
| - John Lennon.
| jaclaz wrote:
| Ray Bradbury:
|
| "Life is trying things to see if they work."
| manofmanysmiles wrote:
| I may be a little late to the party, but I'd like to offer a few
| thoughts. I write this as much to clarify my own thinking as to
| possibly help you.
|
| Preface: I feel at peace, and guided by inner purpose now.
| Experience has taught me that all is fleeting, so I am quite
| confident there will a time where I don't feel this way.
| Therefore, take all I am about to write with a grain of salt,
| even as it applies to my experience. These thoughts all reset on
| certain "spiritual" assumptions that are true in my experience. I
| ask that you use discipline in your thinking and clarify what is
| true to you and your experience and not assume that anything I
| say is supposed to be taken as true, for you, or in any absolute
| sense.
|
| Everything seems a bit paradoxical to me these days.
|
| Purpose appears to be something that just is, like a knife's
| (primary) purpose is to cut, an apple tree's purpose is to bear
| apples, and somewhere far removed in complexity, each human has a
| purpose that is as clear as those two examples. Simultaneously,
| we/consciousness possess or appears to possess some kind of free
| will, or ability to chose that allows us some latitude in
| defining our purpose.
|
| The proverbial fruit in the Biblical garden of eden story is from
| the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I have come to
| interpret that as marking a turning point where animals became
| "man" and "woman", because our purpose was no longer sole encoded
| in our biology, but something changed where we could chose to
| work in alignment, or against our biology.
|
| As beings with free will, but also living in or as biological
| machines, we have this dual existence where some of our purpose
| is given to us, as certain genetic differences manifest as
| "advantages" in certain areas of life, and we are also free to
| steer our lives. Expand genetics to include our environment,
| "nurture", and even "karma" (why are two identical twins often so
| different?, and we are always existing in a certain state, with
| some hardware (our bodies including brains), and software (our
| minds, emotions, any woo stuff you're into). This is where we
| "find" our purpose, as it is something inherent to the nature of
| the state of our system. However, I'd argue that as beings with
| free will, we can introspect and sculpt this state and also
| create our purpose, by changing the hardware and software that we
| experience "the world" through.
|
| To summarize that, we are both spirit (consciousness with free
| will), and also biology, so "finding" a purpose to me has been
| balancing and harmonizing what is currently true with my desires
| and intentions, knowing that even my desires and intentions come
| through the user interface that is our biology.
|
| The following statements might sound like platitudes, and yet for
| me they have been immensely transformative.
|
| No amount of pure thinking ever got me anywhere. At some point,
| lived experience was (and continues to be) the only way
| "forward". Our minds are only maps to some extent, and until
| we've walked the territory, it's all just conjecture. I can't
| overstate how important good food, sleep, exercise, meditation,
| and "inner work" have been. It's been so important to just be
| present in the moment, in my body, with my feelings and emotions.
| The present is all there ever is, so being there seems rather
| important.
| Glench wrote:
| Maybe you'll enjoy a story of my own journey toward purpose that
| lead me to quit tech to become a therapist:
| http://glench.com/WhyIQuitTechAndBecameATherapist/
| ree-san wrote:
| I really enjoyed this story and associated links, thank you
| thenerdhead wrote:
| Look up John Vervaeke and watch his series on the meaning crisis.
|
| Otherwise read philosophy given that's the main topic.
| undershirt wrote:
| Vervaeke said in one of those videos that we wish to know the
| _meaning of life_ as we would know the _meaning of a sentence_.
| csnover wrote:
| In my experience, finding purpose is not an easy process, but it
| is at least a simple one to start.
|
| Personal values are the things you care about. Going through a
| list of core values[0] and rating them on a 1-5 scale should give
| clarify on what really matters to you, so you can cleave away the
| rest. (I've also found thinking about conflict in terms of values
| to be incredibly helpful; when someone is upset about something,
| and it's not clear why, my experience has been that it's because
| one of their values are being violated.)
|
| Personal values shift somewhat over time (e.g. a financial
| windfall may make wealth feel less important; having fewer
| opportunities to meet people may make relationships feel more
| important), but you're likely to find that you have a
| particularly strong affinity to a few key values that don't
| really change over time. Using those as a compass, you can find
| the 'right' activities for you by asking whether or not they're
| in line with your key values. By doing this, you're able to live
| a life that feels more fulfilling.
|
| Once you've done this, there will probably be various things that
| come up where you find yourself uncertain or still not quite like
| you know what your purpose is, but it is hopefully enough to get
| going on the right path. Books providing an overview of all the
| different philosophies and their evolution over time might be
| interesting too to pick one of those that feels most right for
| your life. Good luck!
|
| [0] There are a nearly infinite number of these on the internet.
| I don't know of any one in particular that's especially good.
| https://www.qualitycharters.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/H...
| is one option that came up for me that seems reasonable.
| beardyw wrote:
| A calling is something you hear. If you can't hear it, it isn't
| calling. You may never hear it. It might come tomorrow. You can't
| find it. It will find you.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| "Making the world a better place, through minimal message
| oriented transport layers." -Hooli
|
| What is important to you, what do you care about? Who depends on
| you for what? What skills, abilities, connections, positions,
| etc. do you have that can be useful in the world?
|
| I think too often people want some grand overall narrative about
| making a big impact on the world, which, if you adopt it without
| really truly believing and caring about it, will be actually
| demotivating. For the most part, anyone can find purpose by doing
| a better job at what they are already doing in life. Be a better
| whatever you are. Go deeply into it, and put more energy into it.
| I also highly recommend these books: * Man's Search for
| Meaning by Viktor Frankl * The Enchiridion by Epictetus
| * Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
| game_the0ry wrote:
| In plain english, "Ikigai" is the intersection of:
|
| - what you enjoy doing
|
| - what you are good at doing
|
| - what you can get paid for doing
|
| Imagine a a circle for each of those categiries as a Venn diagram
| - the middle of the 3 would be "Ikigai."
|
| Try making a list of all three, then see if there is overlap.
| gw98 wrote:
| I tried that and it completely broke me working with other
| people who did a shitty job of what I loved doing and didn't
| care.
|
| I now worked out the thing to do is earn lots of money turning
| something you hate but are good at into something tolerable.
| That gives you time, energy and money for the things you love.
| [deleted]
| makeworld wrote:
| I think you are forgetting one more category: what the world
| needs
|
| OP may find this helpful:
| https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aKPqgFP1m1Y/WdVP2sfqAmI/AAAAAAAAl...
| another_story wrote:
| Unfortunately, once you start getting paid, and especially if
| it's what you rely on to live, the joy often disappears. Not
| always, but it seems to be quite common.
| bluquark wrote:
| These 3 criteria seem rather narrow to define a concept as
| existentially loaded as ikigai. There's a related narrower
| Japanese word for purely work/task-related satisfaction,
| "yarigai", which seems closer to what you're talking about.
| exoterictruth wrote:
| Create a post-scarcity society that eliminates all human
| suffering that comes from deprivation of basic human needs.
|
| This is a solvable problem.
| WallyFunk wrote:
| Purpose for me is an actualized version of who I really am. Deep
| down there is a kernel of who you really are, and the goal is to
| tap into that identity as much as possible, and bring it out from
| within, into the deeper world around you.
| he11ow wrote:
| Notice what makes you smile despite yourself. Think about the
| things you did over and over again between the ages of six to
| twelve. Think of the times when you had to choose between
| different problems to solve, homework to do, questions to answer,
| whatever, and you chose what you chose.
|
| As I type this, I am aware it sounds bonkers. But when you pay
| close attention to what accomplished, creative people say when
| they talk about their life's work, you notice it all sounds so
| very, very similar.
|
| They could be in science or art or sports or music or politics or
| really anything, and they'd point to some foundational behavior
| or event at a young age. And then they'll also talk about not WHY
| they love the thing they're doing, but rather how they just
| SEEMED TO DO the thing they're doing, and they kinda decided they
| may as well do more of it, or do it properly.
|
| It's not about a big reveal. Rather, it's like a tiny voice, and
| the more attentively you listen, the clearer it becomes.
| breck wrote:
| We're hiring!
|
| Interested in programming languages? https://pldb.com/
|
| Interested in cancer research? https://cancerdb.com/
|
| Interested in blogging? https://scroll.pub/
|
| Interested in music? https://musicofapeople.com/
|
| Interested in newspapers? https://longbeach.pub/
| powerapple wrote:
| I spent a lot time on this topic and in the end, I settled with
| "reproduction of genes". Maybe I am not exactly going to pursue
| my purpose, but it feels good to know once I pass on my genes, I
| have accomplished my purpose. Then I just enjoy my life without
| worrying about my purpose.
| eli_gottlieb wrote:
| >There are plenty of studies that show that having a "purpose"
| and working after it is correlated with higher happiness or well
| being. "Purpose" is vague enough, so to make things worse I am
| going to conflate it with "life meaning", "calling" or "personal
| values".
|
| Some subjective sense being correlated with blah blah blah
| doesn't mean any such thing objectively exists. It doesn't. You
| have no purpose. Nobody designed you. You're free.
| statquontrarian wrote:
| Some research and expert guidance you might find useful:
|
| 1. Frank Martela and Michael F Steger. The three meanings of
| meaning in life: Distinguishing coherence, purpose, and
| significance. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 11(5):531-545,
| 2016. doi:10.1080/17439760.2015.1137623.
|
| 2. Roy F Baumeister. Meanings of life. Guilford Press, 1991.
|
| 3. Viktor E Frankl. Man's search for meaning. Simon and Schuster,
| 1985.
|
| 4. Roy F Baumeister, Kathleen D Vohs, Jennifer L Aaker, and Emily
| N Garbinsky. Some key differences between a happy life and a
| meaningful life. The journal of positive psychology, 8(6):
| 505-516, 2013. doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.830764.
|
| 5. Crystal L Park and Login S George. Assessing meaning and
| meaning making in the context of stressful life events:
| Measurement tools and approaches. The Journal of Positive
| Psychology, 8 (6):483-504, 2013.
|
| 6. Blake A Allan, Ryan D Duffy, and Richard Douglass. Meaning in
| life and work: A developmental perspective. The Journal of
| Positive Psychology, 10(4):323-331, 2015.
| doi:10.1080/17439760.2014.950180.
|
| 7. Samantha J Heintzelman and Laura A King. On knowing more than
| we can tell: Intuitive processes and the experience of meaning.
| The Journal of Positive Psychology, 8(6):471-482, 2013.
| doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.830758.
|
| 8. Michael F Steger. Experiencing meaning in life: Optimal
| functioning at the nexus of well-being, psychopathology, and
| spirituality. In The human quest for meaning, pages 211-230.
| Routledge, 2013.
|
| 9. Bryan J Dik, Ryan D Duffy, and Brandy M Eldridge. Calling and
| vocation in career counseling: Recommendations for promoting
| meaningful work. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice,
| 40 (6):625, 2009. doi:10.1037/a0015547.
|
| 10. Lindsay G Oades, Michael Steger, Antonelle Delle Fave, and
| Jonathan Passmore. The Wiley Blackwell handbook of the psychology
| of positivity and strengths-based approaches at work. John Wiley
| & Sons, 2017.
|
| 11. Michael F Steger and Bryan J Dik. If one is looking for
| meaning in life, does it help to find meaning in work? Applied
| Psychology: Health and Well-Being, 1(3):303-320, 2009.
| doi:10.1111/j.1758-0854.2009.01018.x.
|
| 12. Bryan J Dik and Ryan D Duffy. Make your job a calling: How
| the psychology of vocation can change your life at work.
| Templeton Foundation Press, 2012.
|
| 13. Login S George and Crystal L Park. Are meaning and purpose
| distinct? An examination of correlates and predictors. The
| Journal of Positive Psychology, 8(5):365-375, 2013.
| doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.805801.
| dnissley wrote:
| _what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value" thing?_
|
| It's actually a pretty interesting question, one that David
| Chapman tackles in his work-in-progress book Meaningness. In
| fact, the appetizer for the book tackles it starting from the
| idea of purpose: https://meaningness.com/an-appetizer-purpose
| swalsh wrote:
| Finding the thing that drives you is probably not something you
| can study for. Try meditating. You might come to the conclusion
| that you just want to be a parent, or you maybe come to the
| conclusion that you want to make humans an interplanetary
| species.
| JSeymourATL wrote:
| Counter argument: Only insane people have purpose...
|
| What is the Purpose of Life? - Sadhguru
|
| > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ7ZvPghdy8
| trollerator23 wrote:
| Research suggests otherwise.
| axel6665 wrote:
| theonemind wrote:
| I don't think you should buy it; you've been programmed to
| believe it so that it becomes self-fulfilling prophecy. I think
| people are more satisfied with life when they have a purpose
| because they think they _need_ a purpose, but that seems to me
| like a symptom of a prevalent mode of thought--Heidegger
| described the modern myth that we work with is that everything
| kind of represents a flat plane of potential to exploit and turn
| into utility or usefulness, and searching for some kind of
| overriding purpose seems like a consequence of that.
|
| I think you should just explore religion (esp. Zen, Dzogchen,
| Mahamudra, Advaita), philosophy, literature, and yourself through
| first person experience until you intuitively feel the error of
| this entire mode of thought. It won't do to _tell_ yourself that,
| although reaching the conclusion analytically makes for a first
| step. You have "meaning" and "purpose" sapping assumptions built
| into you, like modern materialist reductionism. Reductionism says
| that a thing amounts to the sum of its parts, but it's obviously
| fallacious. Try cutting a cat in half and putting the two parts
| back together and seeing if you have what you started with.
| Reductionism is a powerful mode of thought in certain
| circumstances, but it's not absolutely true.
|
| I think we need to acknowledge what there is outside of
| ourselves, and recognize that the universal is always and only
| found in the the particular. Every blade of grass is alive with
| meaning, but it doesn't speak it in terms of utility and
| materialist reductionism.
| sunderw wrote:
| That's an interesting take.
|
| I would add that while you don't necessarily need _your life_
| to have a purpose, having _a job_ (or hobbies) that have a
| purpose is important. Whether the purpose is helping others,
| knowledge, money... just find something that has meaning to
| you.
|
| That wasn't the original poster's question though, but Thought
| it would be a nice precision.
| jkmcf wrote:
| My observation, which also applies to finding a SO, is to get out
| there and do a bunch of different things, and it will find you.
|
| You cannot read a book and find your calling, though it may give
| you ideas about interesting things to try.
| slothtrop wrote:
| My attitude is it (meaning) is entirely sensory, not
| rationalized, and elicited through action. Bias, then, towards
| action. There's also no reason to believe that some obscure as-
| of-yet discovered vocation is the only thing that could grant
| meaning. Realistically, you could find all sorts of jobs
| meaningful. If you don't have a peculiar obsession, so be it. I
| dislike the term purpose.
|
| Dull work with lots of lulls, or lots of passive consumption, or
| too little social contact won't usually equate to a sense of
| meaning. And real-world impact of your work won't really matter
| here, because that is just an abstraction. If you find "flow" in
| work, you'll feel what people peg as sense of meaning. You might
| also from receiving gratitude in-person for your help - it feels
| good. We're social beings. If you've ever tried the self-shaming
| route of rationalizing that you "ought" to be content with your
| lot, you'll know from experience that does not stick. That is not
| how our monkey brains work. If something feels bad, that's
| symptomatic.
| runjake wrote:
| One notable person's answers to your question:
| https://sive.rs/faq
|
| I found them useful, myself.
|
| Derek's "Don't Be A Donkey" post is also applicable here:
| https://sive.rs/donkey
|
| Have you considered that the question may be a trap and/or
| pointless to begin with?
| trollerator23 wrote:
| I have considered it, and that may be the answer. However,
| studies do show that "have a purpose" is correlated with
| happiness.
| erikrothoff wrote:
| This article about fundamental principles thinking and just
| asking "why?" until you're at the base of the tree was super
| helpful for me in finding my fundamental driving force.
| https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/11/the-cook-and-the-chef-musks-s...
| Viliam1234 wrote:
| I suspect that one important part is to get rid of other people's
| ideas.
|
| For example, in this discussion, currently the most upvoted
| answer says that your purpose must be a source of income. Well,
| not really. Some people have a day job to keep their bills, and
| write poetry at night, and they consider the poetry to be their
| purpose. Of course, it is awesome if your purpose can also become
| a source of income (because then you can spend more time doing
| it), but do not put the cart before the horse. First find out
| what your purpose is, only then start thinking about making money
| from it.
|
| Similarly, "what you are good at doing" is a nice thing, but that
| often comes with practice. Do not give up on trying new things.
|
| Try different things. Afterwards, notice the emotions connected
| with your memories of doing those things. Explore around the
| things that felt good; try doing something similar but different.
| machina_ex_deus wrote:
| I think most people find purpose either in religions or in
| generalized religions (altruism, consumerism, political activism)
| or simply in having a family.
|
| Starting a family is definitely the safest bet, probably long
| term too because these ideologies tend to lose their appeal over
| time.
|
| But hey, I don't even seek happiness myself. I'd be glad to just
| know WTF all this was about before I die. Being some 10^28
| particles out of 10^80 particles in a weird universe which
| doesn't seem to have any obvious purpose on one hand, and yet
| we're in this specific one and not in any other.
|
| On the one hand it's so mind bogging huge and yet on large scale
| everything is pretty predictable, and the only interesting
| calculation as far as we can see in universe is actually right
| here. Humanity could explode into the Galaxy or it could die
| silently and predicting it is harder than the most complex
| physics of any known star.
| UnpossibleJim wrote:
| Just to piggy back on this post, don't start a family because
| you want to find your purpose. Start a family because you want
| a family, no other reason.
| prawn wrote:
| Do lots of things that you find interesting. With any hope you
| will naturally gravitate towards something (or things) that you
| enjoy and look forward to.
|
| I have been a web developer since the late 90s. In the last few
| years, I've moved somewhat into shooting travel content - getting
| paid to go on adventures. It happened after I turned 40 and I
| wouldn't have seen it coming even just a year prior.
| n0t3ths81 wrote:
| MattPalmer1086 wrote:
| There are also people without purpose who have high happiness and
| well being. And even if people who happen to have purpose are
| often happier, it does not follow that the pursuit of purpose
| will lead to happiness for you.
|
| Why do you see having purpose in particular as your vehicle to
| obtain happiness and well being? Answering that question (for
| yourself) may give you some clues as to the direction your life
| should take.
| paulpauper wrote:
| You don't need a purpose. Find something you enjoy doing and then
| keep doing that.
| incomingpain wrote:
| >There are plenty of studies that show that having a "purpose"
| and working after it is correlated with higher happiness or well
| being.
|
| I wouldn't even consider debating this with anyone. It's too
| true.
|
| >"Purpose" is vague enough, so to make things worse I am going to
| conflate it with "life meaning", "calling" or "personal values".
|
| What is the purpose of the yeast which makes bread? It is life,
| it has a purpose. What is the purpose of a grape vine? It is life
| and has a purpose.
|
| Purpose is vague because it technically has to be simple because
| it's true of single celled organisms as well.
|
| >I recently came across the Japanese "Ikigai" which seems
| related.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LE5bel_GvU
|
| Only place I've ever seen the word. Possibly the same video you
| found?
|
| >Ok, I buy this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/
| calling/ value" thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find
| mine?
|
| Another great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-STKInWhpU
|
| When you wake up in the morning. You could stay in bed and stay
| warm, but instead you jump out of bed and get dressed. You then
| move onto another task and another task. Imagine you're
| fulfilling missions. Even if they are small side missions, there
| is a reward in each mission. Making your bed, cleaning the
| garbage off the ground. Each thing does have a reward.
|
| There will be a side mission sometime in the day which when you
| actually do it, it becomes your purpose. It's going to be
| something you would never have done. Perhaps you're in the
| grocery store and some old lady is struggling to grab something.
| You grab it for them, and its wierd, you never do this. You didnt
| expect anything in return but you did get a reward. Not from the
| lady, but you did receive a reward.
| trollerator23 wrote:
| >>I recently came across the Japanese "Ikigai" which seems
| related.
|
| >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LE5bel_GvU Only place I've
| ever seen the word. Possibly the same video you found?
|
| I had not seen this. Thanks.
|
| I have come across multiple articles, books, podcasts, etc.
| (Though only recently, so I haven't gone down that rabbit hole
| yet)
| ALittleLight wrote:
| Explore exploit is my basic mental model for everything. When you
| don't know what to do randomly sample your options. When you
| start finding things you like begin shifting your efforts towards
| exploiting what you know.
|
| If you don't know what your purpose is, try different things -
| art, making money, helping people, socializing, etc. Figure out
| low cost ways you can try new stuff. When you start to enjoy an
| area invest more in that area. When you start to imagine possible
| plans, increase your focus.
| dvh wrote:
| If AvE is to be believed, there is no purpose. You choose a goal
| and you getting to that goal is your purpose. Choose unachievable
| goal, a moonshot, and you're set for life.
| jstarfish wrote:
| I take issue with traditional advice on the subject-- it's all
| self-centered. Finding MY purpose. MY life meaning. MY values.
| The path to getting there involves MY consumption of <drugs>,
| acquisition of wealth, influence, or other forms of self-
| indulgence. Everything is about MY happiness.
|
| Consider that perhaps you don't find your "calling." Instead, it
| finds _you._
|
| The only "trick" here is that you have to be reachable by putting
| yourself out there, and keeping in mind that you're _fishing_ ,
| not _hunting_. Coming back empty-handed is not a sign of failure,
| it 's one round in a process of elimination.
|
| Volunteer work is a good start, missionary work is even better.
| Or pick up a holiday shift in retail or a temp job. Help out at
| homeless outreach, animal control and domestic violence centers.
| Attend a service at a church, a temple and a mosque. Go on a
| ride-along with the local cops. Visit your national parks and
| memorials.
|
| Most of this is an exercise in forced association with people and
| situations you'd otherwise overlook-- you'll hang out with the
| poor, the wealthy, the criminal, the pious, and everything in-
| between enough to at least get a sense for the breadth of the
| struggles of the human condition-- and present you with a buffet
| of experiences broad enough to encounter a perspective that
| resonates with you.
|
| My pet theory is that triumph over struggle is the real driver of
| happiness and the only universal purpose any of us have. Once
| people transcend the struggle, there is nothing left for them to
| overcome, and they never again feel any sense of satisfaction.
|
| ESID, and not everyone is meant for servitude, but it works for
| me. Best of luck to you.
| ptrhvns wrote:
| Well, I think a change in perspective might help. Namely, you do
| not find your purpose because it's not lost. You create or choose
| your purpose. A purpose is not necessarily inherent, or given to
| you by the Universe. On a related note, work hard to understand
| that point enough to stop feeling bad about not having one. We
| evolved to want a purpose or goals for fitness purposes, but
| there's no rule coming from the Universe that says you're
| supposed to have one. That can be liberating to realize. On the
| other hand, you do have built in constraints as a human. So, when
| creating a purpose, I think it's useful to start with Maslow's
| hierarchy. Do you have the base levels covered. What about the
| one's above that? Etc. If not, then I think you should mainly
| make your purpose getting those needs filled before expanding. If
| you're lucky enough to live in the USA, or another such country,
| and you get a reasonably good education, then you probably
| already have basic needs taken care of. Part of your purpose,
| then, is to maintain your basic needs. Once you're good there, I
| would focus on researching well being and happiness. Make your
| main purpose exploring which of those things works for you.
| Purpose itself is one of those things, so this is self-
| referential, but there are many other things. Pay attention to
| your unique combination of traits and strengths. Which of those
| will give you the best chance of making an impact in your own
| life and in the world. Can you make any of those your purpose?
| Keep exploring. Importantly, I think mindfulness training will
| help give you a way to enjoy or be at peace moment to moment, so
| explore that too.
| b800h wrote:
| This works: Imagine your purpose as the centre of a sphere
| bounded by a perimeter representing the limits of the experiences
| which you want in your life. Spend as long as is necessary
| testing the bounds of the sphere in every direction. Try loads of
| things, especially bonkers ones which might seem counter to your
| nature. Find where those boundaries lie, and then identify your
| purpose in the middle of it all.
| ransom1538 wrote:
| "Ok, I buy this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/
| calling/ value" thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find
| mine?"
|
| You need to be responsible for something. A dog. A kid. A dying
| mom. A goldfish. Without that yes, life just moves along with no
| purpose.
| fl0id wrote:
| By not looking for it.
| hprotagonist wrote:
| In broad strokes:
|
| _It 's already made plain how to live, what to do, what the most
| high is looking for in men and women.
|
| It's quite simple: Do what is fair and just to your neighbor, be
| compassionate and loyal in your love, And don't take yourself too
| seriously._
|
| But don't get too in your head about comparing your work to
| others:
|
| _I want you to think about how all this makes you more
| significant, not less. A body isn't just a single part blown up
| into something huge. It's all the different-but-similar parts
| arranged and functioning together. If Foot said, "I'm not elegant
| like Hand, embellished with rings; I guess I don't belong to this
| body," would that make it so? If Ear said, "I'm not beautiful
| like Eye, transparent and expressive; I don't deserve a place on
| the head," would you want to remove it from the body? If the body
| was all eye, how could it hear? If all ear, how could it smell?_
|
| Try to build, not tear down. And whatever gets in the way of the
| work, is the work.
| javajosh wrote:
| The "purpose" question is easier when someone is trying to kill
| you - your purpose is to survive. If you zoom out in time and
| space, considering the Fermi paradox, humanity is in a "default
| dead" state. This would be true even if climate change, nuclear
| war, etc was off the table. This implies that humanities purpose
| is to survive, against all odds.
|
| So, if someone is trying to kill you, survive. If they aren't
| (and I hope that is the case!), try to find ways to help humanity
| survive in a universe that, if nothing is done, will kill all of
| us and our descendants sooner rather than later.
|
| Now, assuming that we figure it out, and spread life beyond Earth
| in a sustainable way (which includes making Earth life
| sustainable), our descendants can address the question of purpose
| more fully. But until then, our only reasonable purpose is to
| give them the chance to ask.
| swalsh wrote:
| There's this Ramen place near me that has incredible soup. The
| dude who runs the place puts his entire self into making the
| best soup he can. You don't have to change the world and save
| the human species, it's okay to spend your time trying to make
| the best soup around because you love watching people smile
| when they slurp your soup.
| javajosh wrote:
| Wonderful! Reminds me of "Jiro Dreams of Sushi". That is the
| quality of _most_ human endeavor, which is neutral, or
| slightly positive (or negative) on the scale of protecting
| Life itself. Those who find true meaning and purpose at a
| human scale are quite fortunate. The purpose I speak of is
| the best purpose, in the Aristotelian sense, and so should be
| the purpose of global human leadership, and every individual
| 's experience shaped by that purpose. There is still room for
| excellent ramen in such a world. And in fact that total
| commitment, the attainment of "flow", is exceptional and
| serves as a good example for everyone else.
|
| To save Life in the long term will be the task of millions
| over many years, and the work will be easier with good raman
| in the belly.
| exoterictruth wrote:
| Why are you concerned with the far future of humanity when
| millions of people don't have access to food, safe shelter, and
| clean drinking water?
|
| I agree with you that we should allow our descendants to ask
| the purpose question, but there are much more urgent issues.
|
| Our purpose should be to first eliminate basic human suffering
| in the present, and then expand our time horizons periodically
| after that. These problems are solvable. We can become a post-
| scarcity society.
| javajosh wrote:
| I don't think existential risk is so far in the future.
| Climate change and nuclear holocaust remain urgent threats,
| and need to be dealt with first, obviously.
|
| Just because my first priority is survival doesn't mean I
| have no other priorities - in general, I think society
| functions better with more "catch up" mechanics and fewer
| "win more" mechanics. I am not entirely convinced a "post
| scarcity" society can be achieved in real life, wonderful SF
| stories notwithstanding, and indeed if it could be achieved
| it might have disasterous consequences.
|
| Consider the case of FTL flight. An FTL drive would solve
| this problem. But, it would also make possible doomsday
| weapons that would inevitably be used against whole planets.
| In the same way, post-scarcity implies that nothing will be
| scarce, including really bad things. My conservative believe
| is that solving our problems are going to be very difficult,
| from a political and engineering standpoint, and there will
| be no magic bullet. So: gird yourself for some messy, hard
| work!
| binaryanomaly wrote:
| Survival & reproduction.
| nutargh wrote:
| You don't find it, you create it. Life is a blank page to be
| written on, not a puzzle to work out. Choose the best purpose you
| can imagine right now.
| curious_cat_163 wrote:
| Values come first.
|
| Purpose is then to live a life where you don't compromise on your
| values.
| exoterictruth wrote:
| How do you decide which values to prioritize?
| Viliam1234 wrote:
| The ones that hurt most when you compromise on them.
| curious_cat_163 wrote:
| It can be hard. :)
|
| I usually ask someone else who I trust to help me think
| through it.
|
| For decisions that cannot be undone, usually, you one takes a
| leap of faith and goes for one value over the other.
| forgotmysn wrote:
| do drugs. travel alone. try lots of different kinds of jobs. good
| luck.
| sazey wrote:
| I concur. A mushroom or LSD trip in nature is the
| quintessential human experience and has been immensely helpful
| even for those than never continued use of the substance.
| bheadmaster wrote:
| > A mushroom or LSD trip in nature is the quintessential
| human experience and has been immensely helpful even for
| those than never continued use of the substance
|
| I'd like to provide a counter-example - I've never had any
| benefits from using LSD or shrooms. The first time I was just
| tripping and deluded myself into thinking I've discovered
| something very profound, when in fact I was looking at some
| basic mathematics like Fibonacci sequence and thinking
| thoughts like "wow this is so much similar to real life,
| things repeat, but they also change". Every subsequent time
| has been progressively worse. One time I've spent an hour
| feeling most depressed I've ever felt in my life while crying
| in a fetal position. Last time I tried shrooms, every single
| noise was amplified 10x and scared the shit out of me.
| Afterwards, it just wasn't worth trying anymore.
|
| My best friend from high school, a very bright and
| intelligent young man, met a girl who was very into
| psychedelics. They started doing them, had lots of fun. I did
| it with them a few times too, mostly had a good time. At
| first sight, one would say that the drugs actually benefited
| them, made them more "open". But after some time, they
| internalized the stance that they were "immune to bad things"
| that can happen from drug abuse. Few years later, the friend
| ran away from home, talking about how his parents are
| narcissistic and abusing him (which I'm fairly sure they
| weren't - he told me all about his relationship with parents
| for years, and there's never been a single sign of narcissism
| or abuse in his stories, and I've personally met them, hanged
| out at his house, they were always nice to us and never
| showed a single sign of any issues), cut off his fingers with
| a knife, and disappeared without a trace. To this day I
| haven't been able to find him anywhere online, and I only
| hope he's alive.
|
| Psychedelics are fun, but to say that they're "immensely
| helpful even for those than never continued use of the
| substance" is a huge generalization, requires a lot more data
| than most people consider to gather, and is harmful as
| general advice.
|
| A better advice would be something along the lines of "try it
| and see how it works for you, there's a chance it might help
| you out".
|
| Also, if you're depressed or anxious, _avoid psychedelics_ ,
| especially heavy doses. At some point it's hard not to start
| thinking about the white elephant, and once you start falling
| in the abyss, there's not much that can pull you out.
| Beaver117 wrote:
| It's alright. Definitely a cool experience. I wouldn't go so
| far as to claim it changed my life or even perspective. But
| it did push me to do some new things that I had been
| considering for a long time but slacking on.
| dougmwne wrote:
| What if purpose isn't something you find, like coins on the
| sidewalk, but something you choose?
|
| There may be many things you like or think have some value or
| that more of it should exist in the world. But maybe expecting
| one of those things to grab you in a cone of ethereal light is
| expecting too much. Perhaps the point is that you can choose and
| you should.
|
| Go read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.
| GartzenDeHaes wrote:
| Personally, I think Allan Watts has some interesting things to
| say on the topic.
| sgbeal wrote:
| > I think Allan Watts has some interesting things to say on the
| topic.
|
| One example which comes to mind, from his "The Book":
|
| The man behind the microscope has this advice for you: instead
| of asking what it is just as "what does it do?"
| 1attice wrote:
| I can speak to this.
|
| First, listen to affinity effects, but listen critically.
|
| What I mean is: if you find that you just so happen to get along
| really great with haberdashers, you find yourself at haberdashery
| conventions, and you have an ample collection of hats: take note
| of this! * _But let this be one factor among others.*_ Some of
| the most important, purposeful years of my life came from people
| and contexts I didn 't think I related to at all.
|
| Next, get yourself a bunch of free time and a space to experiment
| in.
|
| Try out stuff you're curious about! For me, it was textile
| design, music, and calligraphy. I'm terrible at all of these
| things, but I never would have figured out what I _do_ want to
| do, which is design & build user interfaces.
|
| And when I do, I think a lot about how tailors make garments that
| feel so good and right and true, but still look amazing. This
| metaphor informs and enriches my software practice.
|
| The key ingredients are time, money, safety, and space.
|
| You need time -- no one can experiment if they have only an hour
| or two of freedom per day.
|
| You need money -- no one can experiment without making purchases.
|
| You need safety -- it has to be safe to experiment. No one
| innovates when the consequences of failure are homelessness and
| death.
|
| And finally, you need physical space to house whatever equipment
| and resources you need for your explorations.
| lalos wrote:
| watch Soul film by Pixar...
|
| Counselor Jerry: A spark isn't a soul's purpose. Oh, you mentors
| and your passions. Your "purposes." Your "meanings of life." So
| basic.
| luxuryballs wrote:
| Check out the book "So Good They Can't Ignore You", purpose is
| overrated, being a skilled professional is underrated.
| jondeval wrote:
| I second this. However I'd like to note that in the later
| chapters, Cal Newport does develop the concept of 'mission'
| which has some overlap with the concept of purpose but is
| defined more constructively.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| The trouble is you are using the word "my". It's only when you
| lose yourself in someone else (or something else) that you find
| yourself.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Related:
|
| _Ask HN: What 's the Point of Life?_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866558 - October 14, 2021
| (164 comments)
| jacobomateos wrote:
| You should read Carl Newport thoughts on "finding your passion"
| on "So Good They Can't Ignore You":
|
| His thoughts on "finding your passion" are that most people don't
| have a clear passion to follow, and that we don't have evidence
| having a job based on an interest makes you more likely to find
| that work satisfying. He believes that is better to master
| valuable niche skills and then use them as leverage to steer your
| work to directions that resonate with you.
|
| He also has develop a framework for life called Deep Life where
| he separates the Deep Life into 4 areas: Community (family,
| friends, etc.), Craft (work and quality leisure), Constitution
| (health), and Contemplation (matters of the soul).
|
| "To me, the deep life is about focusing with energetic intention
| on things that really matter -- in work, at home, and in your
| soul -- and not wasting too much attention on things that don't".
| - Cal Newport
|
| I leave you some links:
|
| Book "So Good They Can't Ignore You"
| https://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/
|
| On Passion and Its Discontents
| https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2018/06/30/on-passion-and-it...
|
| The Deep Life: Some Notes
| https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2020/03/17/the-deep-life-som...
| yboris wrote:
| I think making the world a better place is probably the best
| thing one can be doing with their lives.
|
| Thankfully there are great resources that can help; my top
| recommendation is _80,000 Hours_ - named after the roughly 80,000
| hours that one will spend in their lives working. Given how much
| time that is, it 's worth doing something good with it.
|
| https://80000hours.org/
|
| Following your passion may not be the best way to go -
| https://80000hours.org/articles/dont-follow-your-passion/
| kleer001 wrote:
| The deepest, most significant, and heroic purpose to live one's
| life is taking on responsibility in service to others.
| Responsibility to the level where you can barely stand it. Then
| grow into it. Be more pro-social than you can imagine anyone
| being.
| CyanLite2 wrote:
| If you don't yet have a purpose, your purpose is to find your
| purpose.
| sabertoothed wrote:
| This advice could make someone miserable.
| kepano wrote:
| Follow your curiosity. Don't worry about finding the one true
| path. There are many great paths you can take. As long as you
| feel that you are learning new things, keep going.
|
| https://stephanango.com/solving-problem-finding
| beardedetim wrote:
| From my own search on this topic:
|
| Science can only do so much with the 'internal' meaning. All
| people I've read are inadequate or point to religion.
|
| Religions, across the board, sure seems to be solely focused on
| purpose and meaning.
|
| If you want purpose outside yourself, I'd look to a religion or a
| group that functions similarly. I dug Alan Watts and the like for
| awhile. More recently have liked St Augustine and other
| apologetics.
|
| I know the concept religion causes raised flags but I do suggest
| that you are least give it an open mind while you search.
| sabertoothed wrote:
| As an atheist, I obviously disagree. Purpose and meaning have
| to be based in truth, scientific truth, if you will. Otherwise,
| you run the risk of harming someone. Dogmatic belief systems
| based on revelation are risky at best.
| trollerator23 wrote:
| That's fair, and what little I've come across seems to agree.
| karmakaze wrote:
| To me, regardless of what you call it, it comes down to two
| things: 1. finding something you enjoy/willingly put great effort
| into, 2. looking back on your life at the end and not regretting
| the time spent.
|
| I can't say I know I've found mine but I have from a young age
| enjoyed understanding and making machinery, now extended to
| software. I try to improve and apply my ability at a company that
| doesn't suck and share anything useful I've learned. I still
| greatly enjoy learning and applying new knowledge in this area.
|
| Conversely every now and then, I wonder if I wouldn't have more
| appreciated following an artistic path, say off the top of my
| head like Aphex Twin (without the fame & success). Probably some
| of both makes sense. The most important thing is probably not to
| get caught up not doing anything. You rarely know it's "the
| thing" while you're doing it, only in retrospect might you
| realize it was.
|
| Caveat: enjoying (1) is optional if (2) is significant enough and
| you can endure. :-)
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