[HN Gopher] Salesforce cut hundreds of employees Monday
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       Salesforce cut hundreds of employees Monday
        
       Author : Bhurn00985
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2022-11-08 20:58 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnbc.com)
        
       | throwawaynov wrote:
       | Salesforce employee here. These were mostly the account
       | executives who couldn't meet their quota. It's unfortunate that
       | this is happening to AEs, who are usually the hardworking people
       | at Salesforce struggling to close deals in a tough economy. It
       | will be interesting to see what will happen to the random
       | 'strategy', product and engineering folks who build over
       | engineered, over priced, marketing bullock that doesn't sell.
        
         | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
         | > These were mostly the account executives who couldn't meet
         | their quota.
         | 
         | > account executives
         | 
         | ...you mean "sales", right?
        
           | throwawaynov wrote:
           | Yes - Sales is a function/dept/team. Account executives are
           | part of sales teams.
        
       | tootie wrote:
       | This is pretty small adjustment for a company their size and
       | comes on the heels of several large acquisitions and a huge
       | hiring spree. I'm not sure this is actually a headcount reduction
       | or just a restructuring. They have over 3000 job openings listed
       | on LinkedIn right now.
        
       | JDEW wrote:
       | > Salesforce let go of fewer than 1,000 employees Monday,
       | according to a person familiar with the move.
       | 
       | > At the end of January it employed 73,541 people.
       | 
       | "...employees Monday",
       | 
       | "...January"
       | 
       | Is this grammatical? Is it coherent? Or was this generated with
       | GPT-3?
        
         | pwinnski wrote:
         | The author was last aware of the Salesforce headcount on or
         | near January 31.
         | 
         | Yesterday, Salesforce reduced their headcount.
         | 
         | It doesn't seem difficult to parse at all.
        
         | happytoexplain wrote:
         | I'm not picking up on what you're implying is the confusing
         | part.
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | Every company wants to cut spending on people, services, and
       | facilities, because revenues are slowing down, costs are rising,
       | and there's more uncertainty about the near term future.
       | 
       | The people who lose their jobs, in turn, are forced to cut their
       | spending, contributing even more to the ongoing revenue slowdown
       | at companies that sell to consumers.
       | 
       | The service providers who see their billing examined with a
       | microscope and who are told that new projects are now on hold, in
       | turn, find themselves forced to cut their own spending on people,
       | services, and facilities, contributing even more to the ongoing
       | revenue slowdown at other companies.
       | 
       | The office buildings who are given notice of lease terminations,
       | in turn, find themselves forced to cut their own spending,
       | contributing as well to the ongoing revenue slowdown at other
       | companies.
       | 
       |  _The more every company and consumer cuts spending, the less
       | money all companies and consumers earn._ This unpleasant state of
       | affairs is called a  "recession." When it's really bad, it's
       | called a "depression." It's no fun. Many unprofitable companies
       | and many consumers without savings are at risk of financial ruin.
        
         | avereveard wrote:
         | a lot of skilled workers enter the job market at a reduced
         | price, they have the know how to compete in the same or
         | adjacent sector, medium company can acquire the competences at
         | a reduced price, their profit increase their spending, etc etc
         | 
         | economics is not a single company
         | 
         | this is the tail of feds interest rate raise cutting down
         | investment. it will last a while, but the economy doesn't yet
         | seem unhealthy (well except some specific bubbles, but those
         | have been there a while and if they pop will pop because they
         | were bubbles, not because the secondary trigger)
        
           | cs702 wrote:
           | Agree on everything :-)
           | 
           | The only thing I'm not so sure about is the health of the
           | economy. While all macro stats look great so far, they don't
           | yet reflect the wave of layoffs we're seeing in sector after
           | sector.
           | 
           | We may be going through a mild recession overall and a brutal
           | one in bubble-land. Regardless, it will feel horrible to
           | anyone younger than 35, who has _never_ experienced a
           | recession since joining the workforce at most ~15 years ago.
        
             | avereveard wrote:
             | well there was the subprime thing, it hit harshly on south
             | europe. heck italy was still trying to climb out of that
             | when covid hit, and it's like still down significant % from
             | 2008 gdp levels
        
         | cheriot wrote:
         | > many consumers without savings are at risk of financial ruin
         | 
         | Yes. This is the reason for having a better social safety net.
         | There's no reason a normal business cycle should "ruin" normal
         | people that did not take excessive risks.
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | _pulls out soapbox_
           | 
           | > There's no reason a normal business cycle should "ruin"
           | normal people that did not take excessive risks.
           | 
           | And this is why I get so frustrated when I hear things like
           | "Well business owner(s) take all the risk so that's why they
           | get all the reward (profits, or most of it)". Bullshit. For
           | smaller companies this is more-so true but not even then is
           | it always true. I'm not sure how many downturns or mistakes
           | have to happen followed by layoffs for the general public to
           | grasp this but I don't anticipate people wising up anytime
           | soon. In a number of these layoffs we hear about "Well we
           | misjudged the market" or "The trends didn't continue the way
           | we thought and we over-hired". Instead of tightening their
           | belts (less profit for owners/shareholders) the answer is
           | always to just jettison people until the books "balance".
           | 
           | I own my own (side) business and I have family members who
           | own full-time businesses, I'm well aware of the risk (and
           | debt) we have taken on but for larger companies the top brass
           | (and shareholders) seem nearly completely insulated from any
           | pain. Compare that to places that have profit sharing with
           | employees which can go down if there is a downturn/etc, this
           | is a much better way to handle it. I'm fine sharing in the
           | risk (which I'm doing just by working for someone, they could
           | fire/lay me off tomorrow without warning, that's a risk) if
           | I'm also sharing in the reward. I'm also fine with the
           | "reward" (profit share) decreases in "bad" times versus
           | laying off a bunch of people. Some companies do this much
           | better than others but I really wish companies were either
           | forced to share the rewards and/or actually feel some pain
           | when they make bad decisions. I think we all know the people
           | responsible for over-hiring don't actually face any
           | repercussions for their mistakes, instead it's the people
           | they hired then laid off. And no, paying severance or feeling
           | bad about having to lay off people isn't really "pain" in my
           | book.
           | 
           | Having a "better social safety net" is sort of a way to force
           | "profit sharing" in a roundabout way and I would greatly
           | appreciate it if losing a job didn't mean loss of healthcare
           | and/or a way to put food on the table, pay rent, etc. I know
           | from personal experience that having a good safety net (aka,
           | my parents) makes a huge difference. Not that I play fast and
           | loose with my money (I have an emergency fund that I could
           | run on for 6-9+ months that I've built up) but you always
           | have a little voice in the back of your head saying "You
           | aren't going to end up on the streets". Not everyone has that
           | and I'd love nothing more than for everyone to experience and
           | have that confidence, it's what allows you to take risks
           | (sane ones ideally, like starting your own business) knowing
           | that failure will not ruin you.
           | 
           |  _puts up soapbox_
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Having no savings is not taking a risk?
        
             | fnordpiglet wrote:
             | The relative cost of health care and other benefits makes
             | savings a lost cause for the unemployed. You live one trip
             | to the ER away from bankruptcy and homelessness every
             | minute of every day. It's foolish to blame savings rates
             | for that situation, almost no one make enough to save at a
             | rate that prevents medical bankruptcy.
        
             | piva00 wrote:
             | Don't victim blame. Not every person or family is able to
             | save, think about it a bit deeper than your personal
             | bubble...
        
             | theshrike79 wrote:
             | It takes a _long_ time to save up enough to manage through
             | a year of unemployment.
             | 
             | A social safety net is always there.
        
             | AshleyGrant wrote:
             | It's absolutely taking a risk, but for many people it is an
             | unavoidable risk, and thus would not be considered taking
             | "excessive" risk, as OP mentioned.
        
           | colechristensen wrote:
           | Is it though? The social safety net usually doesn't reach up
           | to help people earning SV tech job salaries. I would prefer
           | to see more friction when it comes to layoffs so we'd see
           | less of tech giants doubling and halving their headcounts in
           | a period of just a couple of years.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | Indeed! Such a strong case for more social systems like
         | employment insurance.
         | 
         | Not to oversimplify but I find "government programs" to be a
         | good answer to basically any "tragedy of the commons" problem
         | such as spending less during a recession.
        
         | Retric wrote:
         | In theory sure, but in practice a great deal of this is driven
         | by earlier over investments by tech companies who saw a huge
         | surge in profits during COVID lockdowns.
         | 
         | It wasn't just online companies that benefited by changing
         | consumer habits as people where stuck at home with little to do
         | browsed social media and ordered food delivery etc. Setting up
         | remote options across many industries had many similarities
         | with the pre Y2K investments and a wave of modernization
         | efforts. That followed by supply shortages which pushed massive
         | investments to build more robust supply chains etc.
        
           | cs702 wrote:
           | Although it will be endlessly debated, it doesn't matter that
           | much how a recession got started, nor who deserves the most
           | blame. Once the spending-slowdown spiral gets going, it can
           | become self-sustaining on its own, beyond anyone's control,
           | affecting both the guilty and the innocent.
        
             | fnordpiglet wrote:
             | Well - artificially inducing a recession to make people
             | poorer so they can't afford to buy things as a way of
             | reducing shipping container rates and backlogs is a pretty
             | ass backwards way to run a society.
             | 
             | Food prices are inflating, so if we get enough people
             | unable to afford food, prices go down.
             | 
             | "Victory"
             | 
             | I think you can apportion blame for stuff like that. And
             | the guilty are insulated from the consequences of their
             | actions, so I don't agree they share in the pain.
        
         | manachar wrote:
         | As many of these companies base their projections on a
         | relatively small number of outside sources, it often strikes me
         | as a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
         | 
         | Big business and financial firms have been signaling a belief
         | in a downturn for a while now -- including while posting about
         | record profits.
        
           | redwood wrote:
           | It's all related to taming inflation
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-08 23:01 UTC)