[HN Gopher] TikTok is the bane of my existence working with midd...
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       TikTok is the bane of my existence working with middle schoolers
        
       Author : oldschoolib
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2022-11-08 15:55 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | quacked wrote:
       | It's so strange that every year that online content gets more
       | addicting and exciting, school gets more and more boring and
       | standardized. When I was in high school, the big issue du jour
       | (this was between 2005-2015) was that all of the elective classes
       | at my high school (European Literature, History of the Bible,
       | Advanced Creative Writing, etc.) were going to be paved to make
       | way for English 9-12.
       | 
       | I've talked to some high schoolers that go to the same school
       | recently and it's nothing like when I went. All of the exterior
       | doors are now locked with passcodes, everyone is very closely
       | surveilled, most of the exciting electives have been cut or are
       | on the chopping block, and if you're late to class the teacher is
       | supposed to lock you out and you have to report back to the
       | office.
       | 
       | I can hardly blame kids for taking every spare second to look at
       | their phones. What a nightmare. I'm expecting my first child soon
       | and I'm definitely not sending them to full-time school.
        
         | threatofrain wrote:
         | School can become more interesting but it will never compete
         | with media whose only requirement is to live and die by
         | entertainment alone. Releasing the requirement of education,
         | especially on such boring topics like history or math, is a
         | huge advantage for those seeking eyeball-time.
         | 
         | There's no need to blame children for being interested in their
         | phones, and whether you blame anyone or not, TikTok and phones
         | in general are always going to win in the battle for fun.
        
         | threads2 wrote:
         | send them to school so they can be with their peers, I implore
         | you
        
           | flyingfences wrote:
           | There are other ways to socialize that don't involve being a
           | cog in the machine for half their waking day.
           | Extracurriculars can fill that same need: boy scouts, sports
           | teams, music lessons, whatever the kid's into.
        
           | zen21 wrote:
        
         | seszett wrote:
         | When I was in high school, 1996-1999 (and 1999-2002 I suppose?
         | I'm never sure when "high school" ends in English-speaking
         | places) the only elective class was Latin, exterior doors were
         | closed and guarded and when you were late the teachers often
         | sent you to the office. In some especially boring classes with
         | boring teachers, some kids would read books (not school books).
         | It got progressively more free towards the later years (not
         | because of policy changes, older pupils were just less
         | supervised).
         | 
         | I never really enjoyed school or authority after primary
         | school, but I certainly wouldn't call it a nightmare. It was
         | quite fine and I learnt things that I found interesting then,
         | and others that I find useful now. I'm not sure having the exit
         | doors open during class would have improved anything.
         | 
         | Anyway, I just wanted to give my experience because even though
         | we have probably experienced high school in different
         | countries, in my experience it has not gotten more boring than
         | it used to be. And in the country where I live, it's also very
         | different from how it was in mine when I was a kid.
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | When will we switch to the Khan Academy model of lecture-online
       | and homework-with-tutor/teacher? Then school would have a purpose
       | outside of daycare.
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | In some (vague, old) theories, students in a traditional school
         | are learning F2F social skills, developing friendships &
         | relationships with a large-ish group of their ~peers, and other
         | soft stuff.
        
           | GoOnThenDoTell wrote:
           | Free day care is just really hard to pass up
        
             | _aavaa_ wrote:
             | Idk why this is being downvoted. One only needs to look
             | back at the rippling effects that school closures had in
             | 2020-2021...
        
             | jryhjythtr wrote:
             | Indeed. Bring back the good old days when men were men and
             | worked in the fields all day, and women were women and
             | watched the kids and fed the family.
        
           | odessacubbage wrote:
           | imo this limited definition of peer groups is in fact one of
           | the biggest issues with our education model. short of being
           | drafted there is virtually no other social or work setting
           | where your entire social stratum will be comprised solely of
           | people born within the same 12 months and the same zipcode.
           | if anything this gives a highly distorted view of society and
           | encourages a whole range of maladaptive behaviors & thinking
           | patterns. it should be unsurprising that the most intense
           | forms of bullying occur in these settings.
        
       | SilverBirch wrote:
       | Ok, one small problem I have with this entire argument. This guy
       | goes on TV and makes a bunch of (atleast) sensationalist
       | opinionated claims, with apparently no evidence. And what does he
       | cite as a clear indication that Tiktok is ruining our society and
       | that we're doomed? Young people want to be social media
       | influencers.
       | 
       | Let's leave aside his absurd assertion that this single fact is
       | meaningful (it's probably not true, and it's probably not
       | important either).
       | 
       | So what does this guy do, what does he aspire to? He's basically
       | a thought leader. The middle aged equivalent of a teenage girl
       | dancing on tiktok.
        
         | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
         | When people my age were kids, many of them wanted to be movie
         | stars. I'd agree that this doesn't necessarily indicate a
         | problem.
         | 
         | I was going to make a joke about how I wanted to be a ninja
         | when I was a kid, and how clearly unlikely that is, but as an
         | adult I do actually commonly see job openings for ninjas.
         | (Okay, I guess it's actually a joke anyway, just not the one I
         | thought of initially.)
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | Some kids wanted to be stars. And they had creative outlets
           | that honed their physical, social and cognitive skills.
           | 
           | The content being promoted, and the social "skills" and
           | interactions originating from social media, are more
           | prevalent and much, much less useful than someone wanting to
           | play sax or act.
        
             | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
             | FWIW, the only argument I was making (not speaking for OP)
             | is that this specific observation of "80% of my students
             | want to be social media influencers" is a weak indicator
             | that TikTok (really, every social media platform) is
             | _creating difficulties_ for today 's teenagers. There are
             | other strong indicators that this is the case.
             | 
             | > 80% of my students want to be social media influencers
             | when they grow up (despite having very poor social skills),
             | and the other 20% have never given it any thought.
             | 
             | The numbers are made up, so I wouldn't expect that there's
             | significance in the spread. My point is that the the
             | teacher almost exclusively sees two groups: one who takes
             | the option in vogue, and one who hasn't thought about it.
             | To me, this suggests that something approaching 100% of
             | their students have given this little to no thought, which
             | jives with my experience at that age.
             | 
             | I think we'd agree that this is a minor point and doesn't
             | really take away from the conclusion drawn in the tweet.
        
       | commandlinefan wrote:
       | People said the _exact same_ things about TV and comic books when
       | I was growing up.
        
         | namaria wrote:
         | Yeah now compare the interminable stream of marvel movies over
         | the past few years with what was available in the 90s.
        
         | tsol wrote:
         | The problem with this line of thinking is it's true and it's
         | not. People said TV would make our brains rot. It didn't. But
         | some people certainly are addicted. They said social media
         | would make us lemmings. It didn't. But some people certainly do
         | questionable things due to social influence. When you have
         | countless disruptive technologies like tv and social media,
         | they add up.
        
           | Fezzik wrote:
           | Social media is dramatically different in that most kids[0]
           | now have a social media machine in their pocket and at their
           | beck and call all-day-every-day. In years passed during
           | school hours kids had much less dragging their attention away
           | from school work.
           | 
           | [0] The internet tells me that most American kids have mobile
           | phones by age 7.
        
         | flyingfences wrote:
         | And they were right then, too. I despise the television.
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | idk while i definitely buy tiktok being extremely good at being
       | addicting, this thread feels this generation's harbinger of the
       | kids being ruined
        
       | tayo42 wrote:
       | How do we know if this is really and issue or just another case
       | of adults think the children are ruined. I feel like I heard
       | stuff like this growing up too, maybe I am actually ruined?
       | 
       | Edit: 30k tweets since joining in 2020 hmm...
        
         | tsol wrote:
         | >Edit: 30k tweets since joining in 2020 hmm...
         | 
         | My feeling is that all these cultural problems people complain
         | about so often didn't really start with us. They started with
         | our parents, or more likely with our grandparents. That's why
         | they're so hard to fix, and so often the people calling out a
         | problem are somewhat guilty of the problem themselves.
         | 
         | It's like a bunch of alcoholics admonishing the next one for
         | drinking slightly more irresponsibly. When did people even
         | start this? I don't think anyone can remember. We all know what
         | needs to be done, but the vast majority of us can't do it
         | ourselves.
        
         | COGlory wrote:
         | >Edit: 30k tweets since joining in 2020 hmm...
         | 
         | Yeah this is some sort of subconscious cry for help, I'm pretty
         | sure.
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | > Edit: 30k tweets since joining in 2020 hmm...
         | 
         | In _August_. Assuming it was August 1st that 's 830 days or ~36
         | tweets a day (Using 29.6K tweet total). That's insane.
        
       | abeppu wrote:
       | The video in this tweet makes an analogy with opium, which of
       | course is charged historical territory between China and the
       | west. In fairness, the US and most other countries haven't made a
       | serious attempt to stop or ban 'addictive' interactive apps and
       | content. There has at points been pressure, e.g. on YouTube, but
       | my understanding is no laws have been passed, etc. If we
       | disapprove so strongly of kids being exposed to this stuff, let's
       | get some legislation on the books, rather than just one-off
       | shaming companies for not meeting our unwritten norms.
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | banning tiktok is only a temporary half measure that relies on
       | the dopamine system to be foreign sourced
       | 
       | we can make a licensing regime and regulate content selection
       | algorithms
        
       | jgalt212 wrote:
       | > These narratives are connected via a film, Infinite Jest, also
       | called "the Entertainment" or "the samizdat". The film is so
       | entertaining that its viewers lose all interest in anything other
       | than repeatedly viewing it, and thus eventually die.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Jest
        
       | Karawebnetwork wrote:
       | Unless I'm missing something, there's no reason to link to this
       | particular tweet. It's not even a full thread. It simply
       | discusses this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tristan-harris-
       | social-media-pol...
        
       | lzooz wrote:
       | 0 mentions of the parents in the tweet or replies. They aren't at
       | fault at all, right?
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | Fallacy detected: strawmen
         | 
         | Impolite rhetoric detected: sarcasm
        
           | zen21 wrote:
        
       | bell-cot wrote:
       | A Modest Proposal...
       | 
       | Give all ~15-year-olds a day-long standardized test. The test is
       | mostly a bunch of boring "do lots of not-hard math", "read dull
       | stuff & kinda understand it", etc. Kids are encouraged to bring
       | their phones - but can't use them in any way that plausibly
       | amounts to cheating on the test.
       | 
       | Kids with good scores on the test get admitted to high school.
       | Ones with not-so-good scores (whether really dim, horribly
       | prepared, or too addicted to their cell phones to pay attention)
       | go to a menial labor training camp. Where they get to post
       | pictures of the ditches they're learning to dig, potatoes they're
       | learning to harvest, bathroom fixtures they're learning to clean,
       | etc. all over their social media accounts.
        
         | itsyaboi wrote:
         | Excellent idea Mr. Swift!
        
         | philwelch wrote:
         | How can you call this a "modest proposal" and not even suggest
         | eating the kids with the lowest test scores?
        
           | tehbeard wrote:
           | ehhh, probably a higher % of microplastics in those ones. /s
        
           | bell-cot wrote:
           | Well...a lot of them will probably be eaten by the internet
           | trolls, and end up as Morlocks themselves.
        
         | postalrat wrote:
         | Just think of the parents!
        
       | CynicusRex wrote:
       | YouTube URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-08 23:02 UTC)