[HN Gopher] Nvidia PhysX 5.0
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Nvidia PhysX 5.0
        
       Author : vectorrain
       Score  : 281 points
       Date   : 2022-11-08 14:38 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | philliphaydon wrote:
       | I remember back in 2000s when Cellfactor demo came out on
       | youtube.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzIHI7y4ZG4
       | 
       | Which needed that separate physx card at the time. Wonder what
       | ever happened to it.
        
       | uwuemu wrote:
       | Not to be THAT guy, but Physx is basically reaching EOL. I'm sure
       | a few mid sized studios who want to roll their own engine can
       | still take advantage of the core, but with UE5 completely
       | replacing Physx with Chaos and the "ballast" around the core
       | (Blast/Flex...) being as useless as ever, I don't see the Physx
       | adoption increasing.
        
       | debug-desperado wrote:
       | I seem to get unpredictable, if infrequent, hard crashing when
       | playing the PhyX-enabled game Control unless I set the Nvidia
       | control panel option to run the physics on the CPU. System event
       | viewer pointed to a failed assertion in the Nvidia driver. I'm
       | not 100% sure this has fixed the problem but I haven't seen a
       | crash since the change.
       | 
       | Since gfx benchmarking is stable and MemTest86 never found
       | anything, the only other culprit would be power transients. I'm
       | using a relatively modest 200 watt RTX 3060 ti so I hope it
       | wouldn't be that.
       | 
       | Just wanted to bring this up because I'm not the only one that
       | has experienced this, it was a recommendation from a Steam
       | discussion. And by hard system crash I mean full system reboot.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bni wrote:
       | I always deselect this when I install the nVidia driver in
       | Windows. I play none of the few games that are supposedly
       | enhanced by it.
        
         | anononaut wrote:
         | I can only think of Planetside 2 from back a ways, but they
         | removed it for the PS4 release. Cool tech, though, I enjoyed
         | it.
        
         | cypress66 wrote:
         | You probably do, as unreal engine and unity both use physx.
         | Just not the old system level libraries that are used for old
         | games.
        
           | bni wrote:
           | ok, cool, didn't know that
        
           | boarnoah wrote:
           | Incidentally UE with 4.26+ (and more so 5, which is almost a
           | complete cutover) switches from PhysX to their in-house
           | solution of Chaos.
           | 
           | A lot of it has to do with determinism over the network IIUC.
        
             | cypress66 wrote:
             | 4.26 and 4.27 still use physx by default, and their chaos
             | version is basically unusable[1] (because of bugs and
             | performance). There is a 4.27-chaos branch which is more
             | updated (maybe the same version as Ue5 chaos?) but I don't
             | know how usable it is.
             | 
             | But yes the future for UE is chaos.
             | 
             | [1] to be fair fortnite used it, but clearly they optimized
             | and fixed only the subset of features that fortnite uses.
        
       | arnau147 wrote:
       | PhysX has been source available since 2015 (3 clause BSD since
       | 2018) , so I wouldn't take this as an indicator in that regard.
        
       | arketyp wrote:
       | What are some games that have impressive physics nowadays? I
       | remember being very impressed with Half-Life 2 back in the day,
       | seemed like a leap. All spectacular looking games with crude
       | physics nowadays remind me of those hi-res ports of old console
       | titles, in an ajar way.
        
         | debug-desperado wrote:
         | Instruments of Destruction, still in Early Access:
         | https://store.steampowered.com/app/1428100/Instruments_of_De...
        
         | MarcelOlsz wrote:
         | iRacing
        
         | 2III7 wrote:
         | Beamng is really impressive physics wise. Lots of mods
         | available and endless gameplay possibilities.
        
         | wingerlang wrote:
         | Maybe Teardown would be interesting for you.
        
           | arketyp wrote:
           | I followed that project and it's part of the reason I'm
           | asking. If one guy can achieve that...
        
         | singularity2001 wrote:
         | Maybe not state of the art but I was very impressed by
         | Assassin's creed origins.
        
         | dogben wrote:
         | The CPU on xbox one/ps4 is very weak. Developers have to
         | sacrifice physics.
        
           | aeyes wrote:
           | The whole point of PhysX is to run it on the GPU.
        
             | maccard wrote:
             | That's not true at all. PhysX comes with a CPU solver by
             | default, and using the GPU version comes with significant
             | restrictions in customising the behaviour. Unreal Engine
             | games (when they used to use PhysX) were all CPU based, for
             | example.
        
         | yummypaint wrote:
         | Boneworks is a VR game where almost everything is physics
         | based, including movements of all characters and your own
         | avatar via a skeleton system. It has a different kind of feel
         | to it and is quite innovative. It's an interesting approach to
         | solving problems caused by having physics based objects
         | interect with the "unstoppable force" of traditional player
         | movement and the "immovable objects" of the environment.
        
         | rouxz wrote:
         | Boneworks has very impressive physics and interactons, it is
         | even advertised as "Experimental Physics VR Adventure."
        
         | yboris wrote:
         | _Teardown_ - hands down one of the most innovative games in the
         | last several years.
         | 
         | It uses _voxels_ and the game premise is destroying the
         | environment to create an escape route once you trigger the
         | alarm (by stealing required objects).
         | 
         | https://store.steampowered.com/app/1167630/Teardown/
        
           | airstrike wrote:
           | Looking at a gameplay video on YT
           | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P--c8rjcSDs), I didn't come
           | away with the same impression as you described, or at least
           | it doesn't really answer the parent's question. Sure, it is
           | "fully destructible" but everything kinda breaks the same way
           | because it's all voxels, and things like driving a seemingly
           | indestructible truck through multiple walls doesn't feel
           | particularly realistic.
           | 
           | Someone else pointed to another game, _The Finals_ , which
           | feels waaay more realistic:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGRoborkkw4
           | 
           | I just hope it isn't another Battle Royale because that I
           | find that genre incredibly underwhelming vs. team-and-round-
           | based gameplay like CS:GO or offline campaigns
        
             | taiiat wrote:
             | Uhhh, Physics are indeed a major part of Teardown. the
             | breaking of the Voxels themselves may not be individually
             | impressive, but it's the nearly entirely destructible
             | Environment with per Voxel calculated Materials that IS
             | impressive. Voxels can be of a wide range of Materials,
             | giving them, well, unique properties. that allows things to
             | be strong, weak, and all sorts of other properties. Driving
             | a Truck through a Building doesn't leave it unscathed,
             | actually. Et Cetera.
        
               | KronisLV wrote:
               | They are impressive on a technical level, especially
               | given how well everything runs. However, I think that the
               | other was pointing out that the game feel/presentation
               | itself was a bit lacking - not having much momentum to
               | it, or just the destruction itself not feeling
               | particularly eye catching (even if the gameplay is fun,
               | due to you needing to act within a time limit).
               | 
               | I'm inclined to somewhat agree, because you can still
               | have situations where buildings can be hanging on due to
               | a single voxel and will refuse to fall down, and when
               | they do there's no sense of weight, instead they just
               | kind of plop down. Very much the same how the cars and
               | such also feel awkward.
               | 
               | It doesn't detract from the gameplay much, and it's not
               | like that makes the game bad, but personally I think that
               | the Red Faction Guerilla game _felt_ a bit better. Of
               | course, it was geared more towards presentation and had a
               | large studio behind it, rather than being very
               | technically accurate, so the goals are a bit different
               | than those of Teardown (interesting setpieces vs
               | procedural destruction).
               | 
               | Here's a few random YouTube videos:
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n16pZxHBo4o
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXmKlVZmvRg
               | 
               | It is pretty awesome to see projects like either game,
               | though! Even engines like VOXLAP were interesting:
               | http://advsys.net/ken/voxlap.htm That's actually more or
               | less what powered the old Ace of Spades game, which is
               | now Open Spades: https://openspades.yvt.jp/ (not as
               | focused on destruction, but rather having large maps with
               | lots of voxels, a fun game)
        
             | yboris wrote:
             | I wonder if you'll have a different feeling after seeing a
             | _trailer_ instead of gameplay of the first mission ;)
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttwBelIlLv8
             | 
             | I'm not aware of any other real-scale voxel game out there.
             | This one has water physics (things float), cars _are_
             | destructible (you saw a construction vehicle that can take
             | a lot more damage before noticeable deterioration), and
             | more. Cheers!
        
             | m000z0rz wrote:
             | The physics of Teardown may not be realistic, but that's
             | not what was asked for - and the physics of Teardown are
             | DEFINITELY impressive.
        
         | pastrami_panda wrote:
         | It's not quite as easy as slapping on a good physics engine and
         | call it a day.
         | 
         | A good integration with a decent physics engine feels better
         | in-game than a superb physics engine with a bad integration.
         | 
         | When programming physics there's many ways of getting the
         | desired behavior from the physics system, and as with all
         | problem solving some solutions are better/more stable than
         | others.
        
           | arketyp wrote:
           | I don't doubt there are compromises being made. I guess I'm
           | just a bit surprised that immersion via realistic physics
           | isn't in higher (and competing) demand. It also seems to me
           | there could be a lot of interesting gameplay mechanics to
           | explore there.
        
             | Jensson wrote:
             | There just isn't enough talent to make those games. People
             | who are both good at programming and physics are very rare,
             | and without them you are unlikely to produce programs that
             | can use the physics system in reliable enough ways.
        
         | efxhoy wrote:
         | Embark Studios are making a game called "The Finals" which
         | leans very heavily on destructionn. The trailer has some really
         | impressive building collapses and other loud looking events:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X84w4DWEEes
        
           | razormania wrote:
           | They use PhysX with rust bindings for this.
           | https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/physx-rs
        
             | gooseserbus wrote:
             | The Finals is an Unreal based game, not Rust, you can see
             | the Unreal logo on their homepage:
             | https://www.reachthefinals.com/
             | 
             | They have a Rust game:
             | https://medium.com/embarkstudios/embarks-creative-
             | playground...
             | 
             | Which maybe be using their PhysX bindings but it's not The
             | Finals
        
           | ozarker wrote:
           | Embark was founded by a lot of the old school DICE guys.
           | Really excited for what they bring to the table.
           | 
           | Also iirc they are big on Rust and are supporting a lot of
           | grassroots projects in the Rust gamedev space
        
             | nullify88 wrote:
             | The destruction in the trailers reminds me a lot of Bad
             | Company 2 when it was possible to level the battlefield.
             | Later games dumbed down the destruction or had scripted
             | destruction sequences.
        
         | dtagames wrote:
         | I'm very impressed with Trine [0] and I noticed it has the
         | Nvidia PhysX logo on startup. The entire game is based on
         | physics puzzles and the graphics are gorgeous.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/trine-enchanted-
         | edit...
        
         | jmiskovic wrote:
         | The Noita game features huge 2D levels where gasses and liquids
         | interact with magic spells. Teardown has completely
         | destructible voxel levels. BeamNG driving simulation implements
         | soft bodies, various experiments with its physics are popular
         | on youtube. I don't think any of these use PhysX.
        
           | Pulcinella wrote:
           | My only problem with Noita is that the back half of the game
           | basically disregards most of the physics and chemistry
           | systems. It's more based around exploiting the build-a-wand
           | system so you can e.g. generate infinite black hole chainsaw
           | spells that let you blast through rock at a million miles an
           | hour.
           | 
           | It is the only game I am aware of that I would say has a true
           | "chemistry engine" along side its physics engine. (Though
           | props to designers of Zelda BotW for giving objects internal
           | properties besides just velocity & mass that facilitate
           | reactions and interactions. Falling sand games that Noita
           | takes a lot of inspiration also often have "chemistry"
           | interactions but generally don't incorporate physics bodies
           | and are more of a simulation toy box than a game).
        
             | dmitriid wrote:
             | It's the great unanswered question: what works in game
             | design?
             | 
             | It turns out wand building and extensive end-game/meta
             | progression is far more engaging than most other things.
             | IIRC there was more chemistry early on (I think there
             | was/still is cooking?) and more rogue-like elements like
             | satiation, but wand-building combined with the world
             | physics turned out to be such immense fun, that it eclipsed
             | everything else.
        
         | abudabi123 wrote:
         | A Kerbal Space Program with an on ramp to the world's
         | observatory catalogs and focus on learning instruments and
         | physics, theoretical and applied, would be awesome from Nvidia.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-alpha
        
         | gowings97 wrote:
         | The reason is money - it costs money (artists) to make
         | destructible objects and art down for every conceivable way it
         | can be broken/destroyed/manipulated.
         | 
         | I hope/pray for a Battlefield 7 game that actually takes this
         | seriously, but EA has run Battlefield into the ground.
        
           | nullify88 wrote:
           | Bad Company 2 came close to this and for me was probably the
           | most fun and thrilling Battlefield game ever.
        
           | 91edec wrote:
           | Some ex-Dice guys are at Embark Studios and their next game
           | seems to be bringing back destructible environments.
           | 
           | Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYYiP2cKHKs
           | 
           | https://www.embark-studios.com/
        
             | sorenjan wrote:
             | All I could think when watching that trailer is "I'm
             | getting too old for this".
             | 
             | Also, relevant to this story, Embark does a lot of open
             | source development in Rust, including physx-rs. The Finals
             | is using Unreal Engine though.
        
             | gowings97 wrote:
             | Very cool, thanks for sharing
        
         | haunter wrote:
         | Death Stranding. Considering you traverse the world mostly on
         | foot and packed up they nailed the terrain and how movement
         | with heavy package works (imagine sherpas and mountaineers).
        
         | evnix wrote:
         | apart from games going from 2k to 4k to 8k, there hasn't been
         | any noticeable improvement in realism in the past 10 years. ray
         | tracing if enabled looks nice but that's pretty much the height
         | of it, characters look just as janky as they did 10 years ago.
         | 
         | I feel the primary reason are the consoles, game devs can't
         | push the boundaries as most consoles are around 5-6 years
         | behind gaming PCs.
        
           | retSava wrote:
           | Have you played The Last of Us part 2? The amount of details
           | all over the world, smooth animations that blend midway into
           | another, etc, really is a step forward imo.
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | I think your comment is wrong and perhaps speaks to your own
           | visual senses than any factual effect.
           | 
           | There's been so many advancements in the last ten years
           | outside of raytracing. Better character motion, better
           | character AI, spatial audio, audio materials, speech matching
           | just off the top of my head.
           | 
           | Every single thing about games has gotten noticeably better
           | for realism.
           | 
           | One only needs to watch a Digital Foundry video or a GDC talk
           | to see the big uplifts.
           | 
           | 10 years is a long time too and spans all the way back to the
           | PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 era. So your comment is
           | nonsensical at best
        
             | jokethrowaway wrote:
             | character motion being the same old animations, just
             | done/interpolated better
             | 
             | the only advancement I know of which got close to be
             | implemented in games is
             | https://github.com/sebastianstarke/AI4Animation (I think
             | Sebastian worked with EA or some other big company at some
             | point) - still haven't played anything using this though
        
               | Arelius wrote:
               | What a surface level take.
               | 
               | Firstly, we've been doing the "same old animations" for a
               | very long time, and in most areas of content.
               | 
               | Secondly, they aren't they same old animations,
               | technologies to produce them are becoming higher
               | precision, more efficient, and better in many ways.
               | 
               | Continuing on, the amount of work being poured into
               | dynamic animation, IK, and the like is significant.
               | 
               | Various locomotion systems, including AI4Animation that
               | you linked are becoming significant contributions. Though
               | crazy you single that out as an exception, because it is
               | also using the "same old animations" just a large
               | unstructured set of them. But this work is a direct
               | continuation of motion matching, which also works on
               | large datasets of unstructured animations, and *has*
               | shipped in quite a few titles, and is a very significant
               | jump in how animation is done today.
               | 
               | And that's just animation.
               | 
               | https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023280/Motion-Matching-
               | and-Th...
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | Your opinion here is highly ignorant.
               | 
               | There's been tons of advancements on higher fidelity
               | motion, better interaction , pose blending, constraint
               | targeting, secondary motion, pose based deformation etc..
        
           | Corazoor wrote:
           | Cyberpunk 2077 at least pushed the rendering part of the
           | engine into next-gen territory: Volumetric lightning and fog
           | almost everywhere, environment reflection on even the
           | smallest water surface and monochromatic light actually turns
           | many surfaces into mirrors. All that in an outdoors setting
           | with a ton of assets and an almost impracticle amount of
           | verticality (no naturally empty half of the Screen). Before
           | that release, most game devs would have told you that this is
           | still impossible on todays hardware.
           | 
           | But that engine also shows that you are not wrong with your
           | remark about consoles holding progress back: The game barely
           | ran on the ps4, and even on the ps5 you won't get stellar
           | framerates... You need a really nice PC to run the thing
           | smoothely...
        
             | trentnelson wrote:
             | It runs really, really smoothly on my Xbox Series X. I'd
             | arguably say even smoother than my OC'd 10900K + RTX 3090
             | PC.
        
           | zokier wrote:
           | 10 years is two console generations ago, 2012 was still
           | ps3/xb360 era. If you don't notice any difference, then that
           | is more explained by your lack of paying attention than lack
           | of improvement.
        
           | MichaelCollins wrote:
           | The pursuit of realism hit diminishing returns years ago; the
           | manpower needed to make a game hyper-realistic isn't
           | justified by the number of additional sales it will produce.
           | Instead of becoming more realistic, most games have instead
           | focused on having more bright neon particles swirling around
           | on screen. That's much cheaper and much more effective than
           | chasing further realism.
           | 
           | This will likely change in the near future as the industry
           | invents ways to replace human modelers, texture artists, etc,
           | with automated "AI" tools.
        
             | georgeecollins wrote:
             | You are right, but I think it goes back and forth. I can
             | recall seeing a game I was working on (Homefront 2?) where
             | it looked surprisingly photo real - at least as a
             | prototype. But the physics took you out of the illusion as
             | soon as anything moved.
             | 
             | Nowadays I see developers doing amazing things with
             | shaders, like you said. And stylized models are easier to
             | make, but also less in the uncanny valley.
             | 
             | Realism can be cheaper when you don't care about
             | optimizing, or AI can optimize for you. When you can scan
             | in objects and it is workable in a game engine that's
             | cheaper than designing them. We're there with mo-cap vs
             | character animation.
        
         | Rudism wrote:
         | Outer Wilds has some impressive physics in that the whole game
         | takes place in a miniature solar system where the planets orbit
         | the sun, have their own gravity, day/night cycles, and so on.
         | There are various weather phenomena, such as one planet that
         | has floating islands tossed into space by storms before
         | crashing back down, and a pair of planets named the "hourglass
         | twins" that transfer sand between each other. You can fly out
         | in your ship and watch these things happen at a macro level, or
         | get right into it (like walking around one of those islands as
         | it's being tossed into space, or getting yourself crushed by
         | rising sand levels). It's really impressive, and I'm probably
         | not doing it justice with this description. Worth checking out.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | Designers figured out that it's hard to make physics-based
         | gameplay that's fun and interesting and doesn't break the game
         | in various ways. Physics-driven games in the HL2 style are then
         | almost their own genre - it has to be a conscious design choice
         | - so most games don't try to make complex physics core to
         | gameplay, they just use it as window-dressing. There's a lot of
         | impressive window-dressing these days! But I don't think that's
         | what you're talking about
         | 
         | Zelda Breath of the Wild is a recent example where the
         | designers went all-in on physics-based gameplay and did an
         | amazingly impressive job with it. But the hard part wasn't the
         | technology, it was everything else.
        
           | georgeecollins wrote:
           | Also realistic physics is very hard on multiplayer. The more
           | detailed the simulation the more data you have to keep in
           | sync.
        
           | RunSet wrote:
           | These are practically ancient in internet time but they are
           | good examples of physics-based gameplay.
           | 
           | https://jet.ro/dismount/
        
             | Rodeoclash wrote:
             | Seeing that just dredged up some ancient memories
        
         | routerl wrote:
         | BeamNG, the most physics intensive driving game ever made.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/Lqx2KKWI8aM
        
         | saturn5k wrote:
         | https://www.beamng.com/game/ - possibly the best driving / soft
         | body physics out there..
        
           | meheleventyone wrote:
           | Is there much written about their sim approach?
        
             | meheleventyone wrote:
             | Answered my own question:
             | https://wiki.beamng.com/JBeam_Physics_Theory.html
        
       | michidk wrote:
       | Then what about this?
       | https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/PhysX/tree/4.1/physx
        
         | xeromal wrote:
         | That looks like 4.1
        
         | whatwherewhy wrote:
         | They don't follow semver. v4 is basically a completely separate
         | product from v5.
        
       | bri3d wrote:
       | For what it's worth, PhysX 4.0 (2018) was also Open Source
       | (3-clause BSD license).
       | 
       | Previous discussion here:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18589494
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, we've edited that bit out now. Thanks!
         | 
         | (Submitted title was "Nvidia PhysX 5.0 is now open source")
        
       | zmk5 wrote:
       | I'm happy to see this! Hopefully Nvidia starts open sourcing a
       | lot more stuff.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | PhysX has been source available since 2015 (3 clause BSD since
         | 2018) , so I wouldn't take this as an indicator in that regard.
        
           | m00dy wrote:
           | right. what do you think about nvidia's recently released gpu
           | drivers ?
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | I think it's good , but doesn't change too much unless
             | you're a kernel implementer.
             | 
             | They've been busy moving the vast amount of the bits into
             | the GPU firmware (not uncommon, this is how Apple and some
             | others do it too).
             | 
             | I think the FOSS crowd made a bigger deal of it than it was
             | because it appealed to their sensibilities.
             | 
             | The best new OSS-ish stuff from NVidia is their research,
             | and things backing that research. They've released a lot of
             | their nerf tech in the wild and Warp (a differential Python
             | to CUDA transpiler) which are very cool.
        
             | TkTech wrote:
             | Not the person you're replying to, but those drivers are
             | essentially just the communication bridge between the
             | kernel and the "real" driver, which is mostly in the
             | closed-source firmware blob. They're also woefully
             | incomplete.
        
           | djmips wrote:
           | And only on PC and Mobile. Not on console.
        
             | fps-hero wrote:
             | Consoles and open source do not mix. NDAs prevent code
             | using their APIs from being released.
             | 
             | That said, a lot of open source projects have console
             | ports, they just can't be shared publicly.
        
               | rhn_mk1 wrote:
               | Steam Deck is in disagreement.
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | Steam Deck isn't a console in any traditional sense
               | unless we're just going to start butchering decades of
               | colloquial nomenclature . It's a portable PC running
               | desktop software from top down. Otherwise you might as
               | well call my laptop running Steam Big Picture a console
               | too.
               | 
               | When the other people are talking about consoles, any
               | sensible person knows they mean things like the
               | PlayStation, Xbox or Switch.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | So the key distinguishing attribute that makes a "game
               | console" a "game console" is its walled-garden nature?
               | Nothing else?
               | 
               | And not the fact that it's, you know, a "console" that
               | can be used to play "games"?
        
               | 29083011397778 wrote:
               | > So the key distinguishing attribute that makes a "game
               | console" a "game console" is its walled-garden nature?
               | Nothing else?
               | 
               | Practically? Yes, IMO. You can say it uses specialized
               | hardware manufactured on a massive scale, with each gen
               | being a distinct set of hardware with slight variations,
               | but then you're describing an Apple M1 Macbook Air or
               | Microsoft Surface.
               | 
               | People have and will always gain root access, but the OEM
               | doesn't typically like this, and goes out of their way to
               | prevent it. There may be APIs the OEM leaves open to
               | allow the creation of, for example, XMBC, but an XBox is
               | hardly an open, general-purpose, computing platform.
               | 
               | If you want to call it a console that can play games,
               | then my custom-build Linux computer console fits that
               | definition. Hell, I wouldn't have to even leave the
               | computer console TUI to play Dwarf Fortress.
        
               | rhn_mk1 wrote:
               | Playstation is a PC with extra lockdown. So is Xbox. The
               | Switch is similar hardware to Nvidia Shield, which is
               | just another general computer (it can run Nvidia's
               | version of Ubuntu).
               | 
               | So the differentiator these days seems to be running
               | custom software.
               | 
               | Which Steam Deck is also running.
               | 
               | The remaining difference is "console = extra lockdown".
               | That might be a good definition in general, but doesn't
               | make sense in the context of the original post
               | 
               | > And only on PC and Mobile. Not on console.
        
               | gunapologist99 wrote:
               | Another definition of "console" might be "specialized
               | and/or custom _hardware_ designed mostly for playing
               | games " without regards to the software.
        
               | rhn_mk1 wrote:
               | That definition also captures the Steam Deck. And I think
               | it's fine. It exposes that "console" being separate from
               | "general purpose computer" is either an anachronism or a
               | marketing ploy.
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | Indeed, nothing has changed. This is just a revision. PhysX 4
         | source was available here.
         | https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/PhysX/tree/4.1/physx/sour...
        
       | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
       | For the younger crowd, back in _the day_ before Nvidia bought
       | Ageia, you 'd have to buy dedicated PhysX accelerator cards and
       | stick them in your PC in order to use this tech in the few
       | available games that supported it. Wild stuff.
       | 
       | After that, PhysX API was accelerated via CUDA and the dedicated
       | PhysX ASICs were discontinued.
       | 
       | https://www.techpowerup.com/review/bfg-ageia-physx-card/
        
         | pacaro wrote:
         | We used the PhysX engine in a simulated environment for
         | robotics development back in that timeframe. I don't think more
         | than one or two people on the team had the accelerator cards,
         | but it worked surprisingly well just on a vanilla hardware
        
         | rasz wrote:
         | Dont forget to mention it was pure scam, PhysX PCI
         | "accelerator" actually ran those supported games slower,
         | sometimes Two times slower, than software.
         | 
         | https://www.anandtech.com/show/2001/4
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | You miss the important bits:
           | 
           | > As we said before, installing the hardware automatically
           | enables higher quality physics. We can't get a good idea of
           | how much better the PhysX hardware would perform than the
           | CPU, but we can see a couple facts very clearly.
           | 
           | So what you call a scam is down to implementation details. In
           | a true like for like scenario the PPU would usually
           | outperform the CPU implementation as long as your sync
           | boundaries were clean to get stuff back from it, and pipe the
           | transforms back to the GPU.
           | 
           | I wish people like yourself wouldn't reach for incendiary
           | language by default. It ruins any and all nuance in
           | discussion.
        
             | sillysaurusx wrote:
             | A more nuanced description is that in most cases, it was
             | slower, and it took immense developer effort to even try to
             | make it faster. And the cases that were accelerated were
             | generally things that consumers didn't care much about,
             | e.g. fluid dynamics.
             | 
             | The software is the clear winner of that. The team was
             | fantastic, and one of them (John Ratcliff) helped kickstart
             | my career. So it isn't entirely off base to say that the
             | PPU was... exaggerated.
        
             | rasz wrote:
             | Its a game, the important bit is playable framerate. There
             | arent any nuances when you are hitting drops to 17 fps.
             | 
             | >down to implementation details
             | 
             | Game is running 2 times slower. Nvidia favorite kind of
             | technology. Tessellation, Gameworks, Hairworks, RTX, all
             | run at lest 2x slower when enabled unless you buy Nvidia
             | flagship hardware.
             | 
             | Did you know Nvidia physx library shipped compiled for FPU?
             | At the time SSE2 was available for 10 years and SSE3 for 5
             | https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/07/did-nvidia-cripple-
             | it... https://www.realworldtech.com/physx87/3/ Nvidia PR
             | person tried claiming Physx actual computation is not a
             | bottleneck, so they didnt bother optimizing :D If its not a
             | bottleneck then why run it on GPU?
        
         | jansan wrote:
         | Interesting. What was the target group of these cards? Gamers
         | or engineers and scientists?
        
           | the_pwner224 wrote:
           | This is from later (2012) but shows some of the effects that
           | PhysX enables in games. The "apex turbulence" in the second
           | half of the video is pretty cool.
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5qhaEghJ74
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | It started out initially for academic usecases till the costs
           | came down and it was then pushed for games.
        
           | driscoll42 wrote:
           | Mostly gamers, here's a review from Arkham Asylum which
           | showed how offloading PhysX to a GT 220 paired with a GTX 260
           | would help a fair bit with minimum and average FPS -
           | https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/batman-arkham-
           | asylum,24...
        
         | gabereiser wrote:
         | Even after the acquisition, people still used dedicated PhysX
         | cards before multi-monitor screen stitching made SLI graphics
         | visual based. Prior, you'd have a card in SLI to handle the
         | physics for PhysX and the other for the visual rendering.
         | 
         | This is great news. Bullet and others could benefit from this
         | as well.
        
       | mmahemoff wrote:
       | Now they should reach for the stars and update the README with a
       | project description.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | djmips wrote:
       | Probably should remove the 'now open source' part of the
       | headline.
       | 
       | Nvidia's own marketing page about the 5.0 release.
       | 
       | https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/open-source-simulation-exp...
        
         | ensignavenger wrote:
         | Right, that page says "All CPU source code is available under
         | the simple BSD3 open source license, and NVIDIA GPU binaries
         | are included at no cost." So only the CPU code is now Open
         | Source.
         | 
         | Also, if you are building a game, wouldn't you want it to work
         | on AMD GPU's too?
        
       | speps wrote:
       | Note this isn't really fully open source as the CUDA kernels for
       | PhysX aren't distributed and the HLSL code for Flow isn't
       | included either (only Vulkan and DX12 bytecode is included, no
       | sources). Happy to be wrong if someone finds the code for these
       | :)
        
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