[HN Gopher] Framework Laptops now have 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports
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Framework Laptops now have 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports
Author : OJFord
Score : 222 points
Date : 2022-11-07 19:59 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (frame.work)
(TXT) w3m dump (frame.work)
| brendanmc6 wrote:
| Since I assume some Framework product people are in here-- my
| framework won't go to sleep which is an absolute dealbreaker.
| Dead battery every time unless I fully shut it down. Forums are
| no help. Advice?
|
| I'd love to support your mission and recommend this laptop to
| others, but you need to get the fundamentals working!
|
| See my comment history for other similar reports from other
| (former) Framework owners.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| You might need to set your system to hibernate instead of
| sleep. Modern x86 laptops lack proper standby power states --
| they only have a low power "darkwake" state in which they're
| able to do things like periodically check email, and instantly
| "wake up" from. Microsoft bills this as "modern standby".
|
| That's nice in concept, but it rarely if ever works as it's
| supposed to, especially under Linux. I had to set my Lenovo
| ThinkPad X1 Nano up so after being closed while unplugged for
| an hour or so it automatically hibernates, because otherwise
| it'll never properly sleep and Windows will drain its battery.
|
| It's stupid but the only machines that reliably sleep these
| days are MacBooks.
| arein3 wrote:
| The comment section looks suspicious. Like every comment section
| of a Framework post.
|
| I am all for them except disingenuous marketing.
| nrp wrote:
| We're surprised by the amount of interest and traction each
| time too, but I'm the only person on the Framework team in this
| comment section.
|
| Attempting to build a good product that respects the customers
| buying it works better than paying for marketing. We haven't
| gotten it right every time and won't get it right every time in
| the future either, but we really do try to!
| NeuNeurosis wrote:
| I think it has more to do with it being a well designed
| product. I bought my wife a 11th gen 1 year ago and it has been
| great with the only bug being the mousepad was a bit "sticky"
| sometimes. That experience, and the thunderbolt capability
| encouraged me to just buy the 12th gen for myself for work,
| which is what I am typing this message on. I have an eGPU and
| running 2 monitors with the machine closed below my desk. Its
| an amazing setup. It has so many fan boys because its a good
| product.
| arein3 wrote:
| Maybe I am sceptical, but this looks to me like a curated
| amazon reviws page.
|
| Perhaps I am wrong and it is indeed real. It would be easy to
| check with an automated script.
| zmk5 wrote:
| I think it's genuine since this product seems tailor made
| for the hackernews demographic.
| julianbuse wrote:
| I feel like people just really love the product. I have a
| friend who has one and says its amazing.
| ranger207 wrote:
| I think it's the laptop a lot of people have been looking for
| for a while. I've got one, think it's a great laptop, and
| prefer both the layout and philosophy of openness to my work
| Macbook. Macs are walled gardens, ThinkPads are attached to
| Lenovo, "developer" HPs and Dells have problems, System76s are
| rebranded generics (not that that's a bad thing, but it's not
| as carefully designed); Framework comes in as a new company who
| hasn't made bad decisions yet, has made an acceptable laptop
| (some things like full size arrow keys can wait a bit), and
| keeps showing through their actions their commitment to
| openness and owning your own computer. The expansion cards are
| a great solution too. The only real problem I have with it is
| the battery life, which I think even the most enthusiastic
| proponent will point out
| Hackbraten wrote:
| So there's still hope that my Thunderbolt 3 eGPU is going to work
| with my 12th gen Framework Laptop?
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Have you tried it yet? I thought all the hardware and software
| was pretty much there-they just hadn't gotten the cert to
| officially say it yet due to some weird edge cases, and in the
| meantime people have been successfully using TB eGPUs
| mkmk3 wrote:
| if someone tells me they have a decent egpu setup with
| framework that's another purchase pretty much guaranteed
| bitschubser_ wrote:
| with my gen11 i5 framework laptop I did run my mantiz venus
| enclosure with a gtx980 TI under WIN11 without problems
| (even hotplug worked) same now with a Radeon 6750XT and
| Fedora 36 in my gen11 framework (only hotplug does not
| work, I need to restart, besides of that no problems with
| wine etc...)
|
| I'll skip a few intel generations and upgrade later then
| :), the only downside for framework is still the battery
| life, even with all the tweaking.
| SSilver2k2 wrote:
| I'm running an nVidia GTX1080 in an eGPU enclosure
| connected to my framework and it works pretty well. Have to
| disable the Intel Iris card in device manager to get games
| to use the 1080 and then re-enable it before you undock,
| but other than that, it's seamless.
|
| I love it.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| If you look at the framework subreddit and their forums you
| can see different setups people are using successfully. I
| think the only caveats are that Linux doesn't reliably
| support hotswapping in some configurations (Windows is
| fine), and if you get a super-beefy GPU you'll still be
| bottlenecked by other things
| kitotik wrote:
| I use a Sonnet egpu box with an nvidia 1080ti for casual
| gaming on a framework 11th Gen running arch.
|
| It mostly worked with minimal fuss. From what I remember,
| most of the headaches were getting sway and my multi
| monitor support configured to my liking.
|
| edit: fix gpu name
| nrp wrote:
| There's a pretty extensive thread here on eGPUs:
| https://community.frame.work/t/egpu-support/1722
|
| The most popular choices seem to be Razer Core X or DIYing
| it with an ADT-Link R43SG
| (https://community.frame.work/t/my-portable-egpu-setup-adt-
| li...)
| chimerasaurus wrote:
| I love my Framework.
|
| I do wish, however, they took the time they used to release a
| Chromebook and focused it into other product releases (Ryzen,
| better screen.) The Chromebook play has also left me wondering if
| they've lost their way on core strategy.
| howinteresting wrote:
| I used to feel that way re Ryzen, but 12th and 13th gen Intel
| has matched it (and with E-cores has exceeded it in many
| respects).
| CameronNemo wrote:
| What do you mean by "matched" or "exceeded"? Are you saying
| Intel has better performance per watt? Or better idle power
| consumption? Which Zen generation are you comparing to? Zen
| 3, 3+, or 4?
| howinteresting wrote:
| Raptor Lake is roughly equivalent in perf/watt to Zen 4 and
| Apple's M series, at least going by eco mode benchmarks.
| Seems like E cores would get better idle consumption as
| well.
|
| The days of 14nm+++++++ are over.
|
| edit: sorry meant Raptor Lake.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| I have a hard time believing that Intel is beating Apple
| Silicon in performance per watt.
| kibwen wrote:
| Picked up a System76 for a Linux work laptop earlier this year
| just to have a beefier CPU compared to the Framework (this was
| before their CPU refresh), and it's actually been fantastic
| (surprisingly good compared to the last desktop Linux machine I
| had a decade ago). However, I love the idea of the Framework so
| much that I'm still trying to find any excuse to pick one up
| anyway. You know how important work/life balance is in the remote
| era, so that means I should really have one machine for work and
| one machine for personal use, right...?
|
| Call me crazy, in this world of constant technological
| treadmills, but I'd be ecstatic if I had a laptop that I could
| ship-of-theseus for the next two decades or more.
| [deleted]
| frellus wrote:
| If this helps ... Framework have refurb models which are
| extremely reasonably priced.
|
| Personally I tried the System76 but I found the keyboard layout
| obnoxious. I'm not sure it was all models, but the one I picked
| up was unusable for me, coming from a mac. They tried to shove
| everything on the keyboard, like num pad, which wasn't
| necessary IMHO. Not sure if it was just a bad pick, or every
| model.
| kibwen wrote:
| Agreed, I'd happily trade my System76's numpad for a full-
| sized right shift key that doesn't yield space to the arrow
| keys. Not all System76 models have the truncated right shift,
| but don't think that I haven't noticed that it's full-sized
| on all the Framework models...
| csdvrx wrote:
| Good! Now can you add room to have M2 22110 drives?
|
| There is no reason to stay limited to M2 2280.
|
| It just takes an extra half-inch and a screw.
| nopenopenopeno wrote:
| I recently discovered https://kinto.sh and it's amazing, so now
| that Framework has official TB4 support I'm ordering a Framwork
| today.
| SXX wrote:
| Have anyone tried to attach 3 external 2K displays to it?
| vatral wrote:
| That's great, but unfortunately I still can't buy one because
| they still don't ship to Spain. Any ideas when? I'll need a new
| laptop by Christmas, so after that I'm giving up and buying
| something else.
|
| Apparently HP also makes an easy to disassemble laptop these
| days.
| frenchman99 wrote:
| The Framework knowledge base says:
|
| > To get notified when we open ordering in your region, you can
| navigate to the locales page and select your region from the
| dropdown box.
|
| You may want to let them know you're interested, maybe that'll
| push them to open up:
| https://frame.work/fr/en/locale/edit?waitlist_country_code=E...
| vatral wrote:
| I've been on that list since the Framework was announced
| which was I think more than a year ago now?
|
| Wikipedia suggests it was released in July 2021, so almost a
| year and half now, actually.
| sschueller wrote:
| That's very cool, I wish I was able to buy one in Switzerland.
| Lukas_Skywalker wrote:
| I had mine shipped to Germany and then forwarded to Switzerland
| by one of the many parcel forwarding companies.
|
| They usually forward the shipment for about US$ 15, and keep
| the German VAT. They pay the Swiss VAT from those earnings.
|
| But: there was a problem with the commercial invoice by
| Framework (it was missing the VAT rate iirc) and I had to pay
| some penalty fee to the importers.
| javajosh wrote:
| 11th gen owners aren't going to be happy. That laptop isn't even
| a year old and it's already being left behind for upgrades. This
| doesn't bode well for the core value proposition of framework. At
| the very least they should offer a deep discount for 11th gen
| owners wanting to upgrade their main boards.
| IE6 wrote:
| As an 11th gen owner I honestly don't know what thunderbolt
| certification would realistically do for me. Every usecase I
| personally have where I plug something into my machine it works
| just fine. In other-words this announcement doesn't change
| anything for me nor do I want anything. Maybe when my 12th gen
| Chromebook gets here I'll be able to tell a difference ;)
| ISL wrote:
| The awesome thing about Framework is that _it is even possible_
| to upgrade the main board without trashing the entire machine.
| Purchasers of the 11th gen system should still very much reap
| the benefits of the Framework ecosystem. Being able to upgrade
| is the very key point!
|
| No matter what new camera I buy, the manufacturer going to ship
| something newer and better soon. So it is with most things in
| the modern era.
| javajosh wrote:
| I'm an 11th gen owner. I'm not happy. The fact that its
| upgradable is great, but that doesn't mean that the company
| should treat _the most expensive component by a long shot_ as
| quickly disposable. A $500 disposable mainboard is 80% as bad
| as a disposable laptop.
| SXX wrote:
| Wasn't they planning to release a kit to turn mainboard
| into a home server like Mac Mini? I guess it was part of
| appeal that you can reuse mainboard after it no longer used
| in laptop.
| teruakohatu wrote:
| I don't get why owners should get a discount. They purchased
| an11th gen Intel laptop, they still have an 11th gen Intel
| laptop. Unlike other brands they can relatively cheaply upgrade
| them to 12th gen.
| andrewia wrote:
| I don't recall them advertising Thunderbolt compatibility, it
| was always an unadvertised feature.
|
| The blog post made it clear they're shipping all the
| Thunderbolt firmware improvements to the 11th gen as well, it's
| just minor hardware differences that are blocking a few test
| cases and official certification. It sounds like you can enable
| Thunderbolt relatively easily if you're okay with that caveat.
| ketralnis wrote:
| I don't think it's crazy that you don't get evergreen upgrades
| to a system you've already bought, especially when you can just
| upgrade the motherboard to the 12th gen (which is _actually_
| the core value proposition of framework)
| https://frame.work/marketplace/mainboards
|
| They do address it in the post:
|
| > For 11th Gen systems, we also have a firmware update in
| progress to bring in the security updates and power consumption
| improvements, but not retroactively certify Thunderbolt (there
| are some test cases we don't believe we can resolve on that
| generation, unfortunately).
|
| Sounds like a hardware thing, which again you can upgrade
| javajosh wrote:
| Yeah, well replacing your whole laptop is an upgrade too. The
| mainboard is by far the most expensive component, so saying
| "you can just replace it" obviates the point of the
| frameowork.
| ketralnis wrote:
| I'm honestly baffled by this. That's not their claim at
| all, I don't see them claiming that evergreen software
| updates are "the point" anywhere. They talk about
| repairability and upgradeability. They never claimed the
| 11th (or 12th!) gen had or would ever have Thunderbolt 4. I
| don't see at all why you think that software updates are
| "the point" of Framework.
| javajosh wrote:
| My concern isn't about Framework's claim, but about their
| behavior. It seems like they are abandoning the 11th gen
| mainboards, which were still being sold until just a few
| months ago. This points to a business strategy of planned
| obsolescence for mainboards. My concern is that this
| isn't so different, from a price or environmental
| perspective, from the more common strategy of making the
| whole laptop obsolete.
| shimon wrote:
| You're still generating a lot less trash than replacing the
| whole laptop, but I have a hard time imagining how you can
| get the level of consumer-upgradeability you seem to want
| in a laptop form factor. You have to compromise somewhere.
| frellus wrote:
| Purchased one to try for work (perks of being in the IT
| department), _just_ arrived today. Personally interested in
| running FreeBSD on it, and wanted to see how possible that is and
| what doesn 't work (see https://xyinn.org/md/freebsd/wifibox for
| excellent write-up). Officially I need to test Ubuntu Desktop and
| Windows on it, but here are my initial impressions to date:
|
| - quality is extremely high; I expected something to suffer for
| the cost, but it strikes me as a nicely manufactured laptop in
| every respect
|
| - initial configuration, adding in external ports, memory and
| nvme drive, took all of 10 minutes from laptop opening to closing
| again ... amazing job they've done
|
| - every bit of the insides of the laptop is labeled, it's clear
| and clean and there are 2d barcodes you can scan for all
| components to get instant documentation
|
| - bios is legit, modern, nicely laid out, simple to configure
|
| - from order to delivery took a few weeks, nothing extreme. Came
| direct from Taiwan
|
| - the keyboard has nice raised keys, and I'm super comfortable
| typing on it. Only issue for me coming from a Mac, the function
| and control keys are swapped on the left side, but that's easy to
| fix up... overall, one of the nicest keyboards I've seen on a
| laptop
|
| - weight feels like a current Macbook Air, just a little larger
| dimensions overall
|
| - switches to hard turn off camera and microphone on the top ...
| nice!
|
| Overall I'm _extremely_ pleased with this laptop, and I 'm
| thinking there is zero reason I'm spending so much money with
| Dell (our current standard). I was thinking of using Lenovo, but
| screw that.. if my testing pans out, this is our new standard.
| k8sToGo wrote:
| I thought framework only sells to private customers (something
| to do with invoicing). Is this not the case anymore?
| erdaniels wrote:
| It's still the case. I reached out for business purchase
| orders and volume but you still order one by one. Since
| supply has been an issue, we just make sure to order a few
| about 2 months in advance of anticipated new hires that don't
| want macs.
| moooo99 wrote:
| Out of curiosity, how is the split between mac and non-mac
| between new hires? My company just recently added MacBooks
| as a new standard and everybody seems to be loosing their
| minds. There have been so many people ditching their
| perfectly up to date Windows notebook in favor of new shiny
| Macbook Pros (which is super unnecessary given that about
| 60% of the company uses their machines for nothing more
| than light office work and another huge portion with
| incompatible programs)
| yurishimo wrote:
| If folks are requesting new machines that aren't
| compatible with current workflows and those requests are
| approved, that seems like a problem with management more
| than anything else. It's the IT department's job to help
| people be productive, and sometimes that means pushing
| back when users are requesting permission to screw
| themselves with incompatible hardware.
| filoleg wrote:
| > There have been so many people ditching their perfectly
| up to date Windows notebook in favor of new shiny Macbook
| Pros (which is super unnecessary given that about 60% of
| the company uses their machines for nothing more than
| light office work and another huge portion with
| incompatible programs)
|
| Maybe it isn't a necessity, but it is extremely nice to
| be able to go into the office without having to worry
| about having to charge the device at any point throughout
| the day at all. I legitimately stopped carrying a charger
| in my backpack. Sounds like a trivial non-issue, but it
| makes a difference to me.
|
| I once had a day filled with 5 hours of interviews
| through videocalls on Google Meet, and my Macbook Pro (M1
| Max) battery dipped only from 100% to 70%.
|
| It is hard to overstate how freeing, at least personally
| to me, it feels. Maybe I don't need all the M1 power on a
| daily basis. But not having to worry about charging my
| laptop at any point during the day, regardless of the
| workload, is always welcome. Add the fact that I've never
| even heard the fans on my MBP (and neither have I felt it
| heating up much at all), and you got a pretty solid
| proposition to switch.
|
| Also, if you are trying to build any large Node project
| on Windows (as opposed to macOS or Linux), you are going
| to have a bad time. Node is just straight up not as
| efficient on Windows and takes multiples of time it takes
| to build on macOS/Linux.
| frellus wrote:
| _shrug_ ... my corporate card worked great, and I just
| purchased one for now. They are trying to support business
| customers, see: https://www.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/y
| e62r3/business_...)
| nrp wrote:
| We now support volume ordering in all countries we ship to.
| You can order multiple in-stock laptops per order. For larger
| quantities or multiple units of pre-order laptops, our B2B
| team can help you out:
| https://frame.work/support?category=business-volume-
| ordering...
|
| Note that from a support/warranty perspective, this still
| uses the normal consumer paths. This is something we're
| exploring business-focused versions of for the future.
| bobbles wrote:
| How are the fan/noise levels?
| Liquix wrote:
| It can definitely break a sweat while compiling, but even at
| that point fan noise is very minimal. (12th gen)
| mmastrac wrote:
| I am tempted to give my 2019 MBP to my partner and switch to a
| Framework laptop. I'm cautiously optimistic it'll become a
| perfect hackintosh target (though I know the Framework folks
| would never go out of their way to condone that).
| RistrettoMike wrote:
| I'd wish you the best of luck, but at this point investing into
| a hackintosh setup seems a bit like booking a ticket on a
| sinking ship -- what with support for Intel-Macs ending in the
| coming years.
|
| I definitely understand prioritizing repairability and
| supporting a small company doing cool things as well... but
| maybe not well enough to pay the same money for what feels like
| a much worse CPU architecture for MacOS and mobile devices at
| this point. _shrug._
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Would it be possible, in theory, to use an arm laptop to run
| arm macOS natively? Or does it rely on custom
| instructions/extensions?
| yrgulation wrote:
| My only issue with that is i would miss the os. The hardware on
| apple laptops is rubbish, but the os is great and makes then
| appear fast and slick.
| dont__panic wrote:
| What's wrong with Apple hardware? I hated the 2016-2020 era
| of butterfly keyboards, limited ports, overheating
| processors, and touchbars as much as anyone, but I'm really
| happy with my 16" M1 Max these days. I wish it had a USB-A
| port instead of an HDMI port, but it's otherwise brilliant.
|
| Meanwhile, macOS frustrates me more and more each update.
| Back in 2015, I would never have considered switching to
| Linux. At my last job, I spent an entire year on Manjaro and
| only switched back to macOS to do iOS dev.
| horsawlarway wrote:
| This matches my experience.
|
| I actually like Apple's hardware a good bit - but I
| absolutely despise the OS. It's a bloated hog of a thing.
|
| I still wouldn't ever buy an Apple product, but the work
| issued macbooks are generally decent hardware, just avoid
| the 16 inch intels they put out, those are rubbish.
|
| The software is annoying as all get out though, and they're
| only becoming more and more tight with control around it.
|
| Kexts going away is painful
|
| documentation is bad
|
| scripting is much harder than it should be
|
| FS is... obnoxious at best, utterly bug ridden at worst
|
| The apps they put out are fine I guess (I really don't use
| basically any of them) but the base system feels like a
| tire fire right now.
| r00fus wrote:
| Thus the hackintosh [0] approach.
|
| [0] https://hackintosh.com
| yrgulation wrote:
| i tried it but i am genuinely against piracy. plus i
| wouldnt be able to use it in a professional environment. i
| appreciate the effort behind hackintosh but i think we
| should make linux more user friendly and good looking. i am
| considering sponsoring a nice little theme for ubuntu. may
| be cheaper to do so and buy a high end laptop than buying a
| new macbook pro.
| nvrspyx wrote:
| > The hardware on apple laptops is rubbish
|
| Out of curiosity, what parts of the hardware do you find
| rubbish?
|
| The hardware seems fantastic to me. The M1/M2 chips,
| trackpad, keyboard, fingerprint reader, Liquid Retina
| screens, audio, etc. are all great compared to other laptops
| I've had. Wifi and Bluetooth are also more reliable on my MBP
| than any other laptop I've owned. The only thing I can think
| of is that it's not upgradable like a Framework laptop or the
| old butterfly keyboards.
| yrgulation wrote:
| see my reply to a different person in this thread: slow
| ram, low quality graphics, historic build issues, extreme
| pricing. apple's selling an overpriced os on above average
| hardware - but still not superior.
|
| edit: plus there's limited support for other os'.
| nvrspyx wrote:
| Really? I thought the recent MacBooks use LPDDR5 modules
| and have significantly higher bandwidth than e.g.
| Framework laptops. Although I'm not super familiar with
| the graphics side, I also thought the Apple silicon
| graphics were comparable to AMD and Nvidia laptop GPUs
| while also being especially more power efficient.
|
| I can't disagree with the historical build issues, the
| pricing, or limited OS support, although the latter two
| doesn't seem to make the _hardware_ rubbish.
| yrgulation wrote:
| from what i read LPDDR5 ram is planned for upcoming
| versions of macbook pros and is not yet there. but i am
| certain once it comes out it will be the slower version
| compared to what you could get for the money on a custom
| laptop.
|
| if your expectation is to use the macbook pro as a text
| editor (ide) and video chat then yes its powerful. but if
| you want games and the ability to install other os' then
| its not really that cool, for the money.
| [deleted]
| einr wrote:
| The M1 Max pushes 400 GB/sec. In what world is that "slow
| RAM" and what laptop -- or desktop -- computer can you
| buy that is faster than that?
| samatman wrote:
| Is there some detail of the hardware in current MacBooks
| where you can justify calling them rubbish?
|
| I'm happy calling the butterfly keys rubbish: they were. But
| now? What?
| Kozmik1 wrote:
| Try one of the following on your Macbook: - replace a
| battery - upgrade the memory or SSD/NVME - get your data
| off a Macbook whose motherboard has died
|
| In other words, do any of the common repairs. To spend top
| dollar for a laptop and not be able to do repairs is
| rubbish: intentional planned obsolescence and vendor lock-
| in IMO.
| idontpost wrote:
| yrgulation wrote:
| slow ram and low quality graphics. also i dont trust build
| quality considering apple's recent history. had issues with
| my macbook pros, and mac mini. keyboard is decent but
| bluetooth seems to stutter for whatever reason every now
| and then when wifi 5g is on, same for the mouse. the mac
| mini 2018 encryption chip just failed out of the blue one
| day. i did consider buying a brand new maxed our macbook
| pro but i am seeing more and more reasons for not pissing
| 3600 gbp in the wind...for a one tb laptop with lame
| graphics. better quality builds out there for a better
| price.
|
| but i really really like the os.
| asadlionpk wrote:
| > hardware on apple laptops is rubbish
|
| that def is an unpopular opinion.
| yrgulation wrote:
| thats ok, we dont have to agree on everything and
| popularity doesnt mean being right. it usually means being
| average.
| [deleted]
| yourapostasy wrote:
| When I make Linux my daily driver once the Linux sleep issues
| are straightened out on the Framework laptops, I will try out
| running macOS in a VM with sosumi to help with the transition
| for anything that simply cannot be done natively on Linux. Once
| I reduce that envelope of non-Linux applications to just the
| Microsoft Office suite, I plan on switching to a VM running
| Windows when untethered.
| svnpenn wrote:
| Warning, tried to buy one just now. Keyboard is out of stock.
| nrp wrote:
| For 12th Gen Intel Core (the latest version), all
| configurations are available for pre-order shipping this month.
| For 11th Gen Intel Core (the original we launched last year),
| we're selling through remaining inventory. This means that many
| combinations of CPU+keyboard language are sold out.
| svnpenn wrote:
| should probably clarify on the site that its "permanently
| out" rather than just "out"
| sschueller wrote:
| I would love to see a module with a SFP+/SFP28 slot.
| jamesfmilne wrote:
| The closest you will get is something like this:
| https://www.amazon.co.uk/QNAP-QNA-T310G1S-Single-Thunderbolt...
|
| There's a lot of supporting circuitry, and quite a lot of power
| to dissipate.
| herpderperator wrote:
| As you know, these are very long. It seems like the Framework
| modules are much smaller than that and wouldn't be able to fit
| an SFP frame.
| aesh2Xa1 wrote:
| The module's connector needs to be the same connector shape
| and with the same electrical connectivity, but the form
| factor of the module body could just be longer, too.
|
| In fact, the SFP itself is long, but does the housing for it
| need to be?
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| The electronical connections are all the the edge, but
| without the latch at the back of the connection, it won't
| be a secure fit.
| wmf wrote:
| An SFP isn't going to latch unless the socket is full
| depth.
| shmerl wrote:
| Why is some Thunderbolt today not USB 4 but still Thunderbolt?
| Weren't they supposed to be merged?
| djbebs wrote:
| Mine just got shipped today! Looking forward to tinkering with
| it!
|
| Btw does anyone know of any good replacement for powerbi on
| Linux?
|
| I would like to move fully to Linux on this laptop, but a project
| I've been tinkering on is heavily dependent on powerbi, which is
| windows only AFAIK.
|
| Ideally something free, open source and fully local (no web
| applications) would be great.
| inyorgroove wrote:
| In addition to metabase there are redash[0] and apache
| superset[1]. They are more or less similar to metabase with
| some different quirks. You can also visualize quite a bit of
| data in grafana[2] as well.
|
| [0] https://redash.io/
|
| [1] https://superset.apache.org/
|
| [2] https://github.com/grafana/grafana
| djbebs wrote:
| Thanks! Superset is looking like exactly what I want. I'll
| see if I can get it working when the laptop arrives
| smithcoin wrote:
| PowerBI is the killer app for windows is seems. The only two
| things we have a windows box in our office for are powerBI and
| writing SD cards for windowsCE.
|
| While it is not exactly PowerBI the only thing I have found
| that is similar and is on Linux is metabase[0]. It's open
| source and free to run locally (or self-hosted) without user
| limits. It can connect to multiple dbs, and allows for visual
| query editing as well as SQL. You can build dashboards, save
| SQL snippets, etc. You can even send automated emails based on
| query results. I hope it works for you. My company and I are
| very happy users.
|
| [0] https://www.metabase.com/docs/latest/installation-and-
| operat...
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| Offtopic, it's amusing and really interesting to me how Framework
| solved the "dongle" gripe by just... integrating the dongles into
| the frame.
|
| From a HW I/O perspective, they're not much different than a
| Macbook Pro with all its USB-C ports. But but recessing them and
| creating a form-factor that gives you the dongle's feature
| _within the laptop 's bounding-box_, they've effectively solved
| the problem.
|
| Brilliant.
| adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
| A lot of it is a rigidity and ease of use thing. If it's
| integrated it travels with the laptop. If it's external, you
| never have it when you need it.
| highwaylights wrote:
| Also, it's not going to snap anything going into a bag in a
| hurry / without remembering the dongle is in.
| craftkiller wrote:
| and best of all, if I do leave something attached and shove
| it into my bag and break something, I'm breaking a $9 add-
| on card instead of the type-c port on my laptop's
| motherboard.
| kube-system wrote:
| And they've introduced a new problem: rather than buying a
| standardized USB-C dongle, you've got a new one-off form
| factor.
| ghshephard wrote:
| If you want to continue working with USB-C you have the
| freedom to install a USB-C module, so I'm not sure what new
| problem you are identifying here. But, if you know ahead of
| time precisely what modules you need, you no longer have to
| have them dangling from your laptop.
|
| I'm trying to conceive of what other possible solution there
| could be?
| nrp wrote:
| The designs are available on GitHub under Creative Commons
| licensing:
| https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards
|
| We've seen both community developed Expansion Cards and other
| device makers starting to adopt Expansion Cards.
| kube-system wrote:
| I appreciate that, and my comment wasn't a knock against
| your product. I like what y'all are doing, it's just not my
| personal preference.
| echelon wrote:
| Don't think of it as a dongle. It allows them to build a
| combinatorial number of SKUs off of a linear number of
| them. Basically, you get a fully custom laptop body.
| taf2 wrote:
| At least the EU hasn't regulated away the possibility of this
| to some brilliant idea. To me it's also pretty solid - the
| built in dongle as it is means i can use my laptop on my lap
| with different wires - or on my work bench with less
| clutter...
| the_duke wrote:
| Why? You can just load the laptop with four USB-C adapters
| and stick to USB-C for everything if you want to.
| throwaway773748 wrote:
| Not really, you're perfectly free to put USB-C ports in and
| you can use your standardised dongles if you want. Or mix and
| match.
|
| I can't imagine what other existing form factor would have
| been suitable and more useful than them just creating their
| own and open sourcing the design.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Can you not plug a regular USB-C dongle in to the recessed
| port?
| yurishimo wrote:
| Or use the included USB-C card and plug your dongle into
| that.
| squarefoot wrote:
| It would also benefit a lot from a dedicated external multiport
| USB-C Hub with recessed ports so they can be used to plug more
| expansion cards than the ones the laptop could allow in its own
| ports. That could also allow to set some standards for the
| development of bigger expansion cards carrying hardware that
| needs more space.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| It's like PCMCIA for the USB-C era.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Next up: Maybe sell them to us poor europeans?
| teh_klev wrote:
| You can already buy them in Europe.
| vatral wrote:
| There's 27 countries in the EU. You can buy a Framework in
| exactly 5 of them.
| frenchman99 wrote:
| Although Framework are not available in all European countries,
| they are available in some of them. I live in France and just
| received mine a week ago. The current list is here:
| https://knowledgebase.frame.work/what-countries-and-regions-...
| ndneighbor wrote:
| Great to hear, just purchased a second one for my brother who
| plans to use it with an eGPU. What an opportune time to announce
| this :)
| nrp wrote:
| As always, I'm happy to answer any questions around this (though
| the blog post pretty much covers it!).
| newaccount74 wrote:
| I'd love to hear an example of what such a certification test
| failure would look like. I have no experience with hardware, so
| I have no idea what kind of tests you would do.
| gibsonf1 wrote:
| Do you plan to make a 15" 4K version? (I'm patiently
| waiting...)
| PaulWaldman wrote:
| Similar, I'd really be interested in a 15/16 inch HiDPI model
| that sticks with with P series CPUs. This would hopefully
| allow for a bigger battery and better cooling than the
| existing model.
|
| Other vendors offer this, but with H series CPUs which seem
| to throttle quite a bit.
| adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
| Why? at 15" 1440p is higher res than 5k for a 32" display. It
| will just eat extra power.
| javajosh wrote:
| What specifically was the problem with the 11th gen boards? Do
| you have a list of the TB4 tests that passed and failed?
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Congrats on the TB4 certification! If you're ready to talk
| about it, I'd love to hear more about the battery life
| improvements hinted at in the blog post. Battery drain when
| suspended is probably my #1 QOL issue with Linux on a 12th Gen
| framework (closely followed by the mutual exclusivity of the
| brightness keys and the light sensor).
| nrp wrote:
| We'll be writing a more detailed blog post, but basically it
| involves forcing the retimers into a suspend state when they
| should be suspended in more cases. In theory, this should
| happen anyway, but we're apparently hitting some edge cases
| on the retimer behavior currently that prevents proper
| suspend in some cases.
| kkielhofner wrote:
| Are there any plans to get at least some of the BIOS fixes to
| the 11th gen? I know it wasn't sold as Thunderbolt compliant
| but the experience is pretty rough and I would appreciate
| anything that could offer hope to address some of the issues
| I've had.
| OJFord wrote:
| Anything you can share about the actual process of getting it
| certified, from say (I assume much earlier) 'we think this is
| ok' to certified?
|
| I assume it's not self-certification (like CE) from the
| phrasing, so you sent some units off somewhere? Was there much
| back and forth with changes required, or was it purely
| administrative and from a technical standpoint the earlier
| units are just as compliant?
| nrp wrote:
| Thunderbolt documents are behind NDAs (as far as I know), but
| you can get a good feel for the types of testing required by
| checking out the USB-IF Compliance Test Specifications:
| https://www.usb.org/documents
|
| Thunderbolt is basically a superset of that.
| as1mov wrote:
| Not related to this, but were there any improvements planned
| for a power loss during sleep on Linux (also possibly
| mentioning it on the product page)? A laptop losing 40% of it's
| battery while it's suspended isn't really nice. I know there
| are work-arounds but this is something I would assume would
| work out of the box. I've sold my Framework laptop for now, and
| gone back to my old cheap trusty Dell machine.
|
| It would be nice if you guys manage to take a shot at a laptop
| more inspired by the Thinkpads/Latitudes rather than the Apple
| devices.
| [deleted]
| nrp wrote:
| The firmware update mentioned in the blog post includes some
| improvements related to retimer suspend behavior on both 11th
| Gen and 12th Gen units that should improve suspend battery
| life on Linux.
| zmk5 wrote:
| Thanks for the update on that! Do you have any numbers at
| the improvement we will likely see with this firmware
| release Nirav?
| kayson wrote:
| You may want to add information about the display to your
| product pages; I had to dive into the user manual to find it,
| It's a very important spec to omit...
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| spiffytech wrote:
| I didn't expect this to be something where all of the failures
| could be fixed in firmware. I don't know anything about the
| subject, I just would have thought it'd require hardware
| changes.
| botplaysdice wrote:
| Offtopic - I really love the concept of this product. I hope they
| provide 4k screen options and keyboard with happy-hacking
| keyboard layout by licensing the design from Fujitsu (with fully
| modifiable keymapping by open firmware.)
| yellowapple wrote:
| My Framework is the first machine I've owned that seems to
| appreciate in personal value over time rather than leaving me
| longing for something shinier and newer. It's like an inverse of
| buyer's remorse.
| endorphine wrote:
| Sounds very appealing to me. Can you elaborate please? Is this
| because you can upgrade pretty much every hardware component?
| warent wrote:
| Not OP, but a very happy Framework owner.
|
| The ability to upgrade hardware incrementally is a big part
| of it for me.
|
| Also just seeing updates like this one, where Framework is
| intentionally trying their best to future-proof devices.
|
| Basically any other vendor would have said "Upgrade to the
| Framework 3.0 with the new Thunderbolt chipset!" forcing you
| to buy a whole new machine for thousands of USD, and then
| soldered in a single thunderbolt port so only the other 3
| were modular going forward.
|
| I've been using my Framework all year for intensive
| engineering work and love it. Will likely be a customer for a
| very long time.
| yellowapple wrote:
| That's a big part of it, yeah. My list of reasons:
|
| - The USB-C modules are a bit of a gimmick right now, but
| being able to swap things around is really nice, and it seems
| like there's a good possibility of there being a healthy
| module ecosystem in the coming years.
|
| - The sheer number of Type-C ports is itself really handy as
| more and more devices use Type-C. I don't need a hub to run
| my Type-C microphone and Type-C webcam at the same time while
| charging over Type-C.
|
| - The repairability is unmatched, and I'm increasingly
| confident that I can keep upgrading the internals for a long
| while to come (in fact, I might very well do that in the near
| future and swap out my current 11th Gen motherboard for a
| 12th Gen or maybe even whatever comes after that).
|
| - Framework has been relatively open when it comes to things
| like firmware and hardware design files, making it easier to
| use Framework parts beyond the intended laptop use case
| (related to the above-mentioned planned upgrade, I can see
| myself 3D-printing an enclosure to turn the old motherboard
| into a SFF desktop or home server).
|
| - Linux works great, and with recent releases OpenBSD works
| great.
|
| - The 3:2 screen ratio is a godsend, and I'm quite frankly
| amazed that so few laptops offer it. I had previously bought
| a Pixelbook just for that alone.
| zem wrote:
| i actually feel a tiny bit of buyer's remorse for having gotten
| a lenovo thinkpad just before framework really took off. my
| next laptop will almost certainly be a framework.
| nopenopenopeno wrote:
| Same here. I severely undervalued upgradability when I made
| that decision.
| pcdoodle wrote:
| I'm happy to see framework is on their way to eating the lunches
| of the usual suspects.
| Gajor444 wrote:
| artursapek wrote:
| These look cool but I just don't find Intel processors appealing
| anymore after Apple spoiled me with M1. The idea of buying
| another space heater Intel machine just stops me from
| entertaining any other laptops right now. Am I the only one?
| api wrote:
| No, the performance/watt of these ARM64 machines is just in a
| whole other category from Intel or even AMD. We'd need a much
| more power efficient x64 machine or a switch to ARM to interest
| me.
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