[HN Gopher] Circadian lighting with Home Assistant: Like f.lux, ...
___________________________________________________________________
Circadian lighting with Home Assistant: Like f.lux, but for your
house
Author : modinfo
Score : 346 points
Date : 2022-11-07 17:46 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tylercipriani.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (tylercipriani.com)
| MontaeSwift wrote:
| On sale now, for 50% off. Type in the link
|
| niceslipperz.myshopify.com
| matai_kolila wrote:
| F.lux has always bothered me, because despite their very large
| volume of supporting papers[0], what I've never seen is a
| consistent link between the "blue light" from those many studies
| directly back to my real computer/tablet/phone screen.
|
| I wish there were more studies done _with_ computer monitors,
| rather than light boxes directly.
|
| [0] https://justgetflux.com/research.html
| sublinear wrote:
| Am I the only person deeply annoyed by this trend? Indoor lights
| are dim enough to begin with!
| jupp0r wrote:
| The problem with solutions like this is that color rendering
| index of RGB LEDs is abysmal to the point that I can't really
| stand it. I ended up just using 2300K high CRI bulbs throughout.
| dotancohen wrote:
| Bulb suggestions welcome!
| ars wrote:
| I'm thinking of using regular bulbs with smart switches, and
| dim them, and then add a bit of red light from a color-led
| strip.
|
| I think that would have the same effect, without needing those
| specialized bulbs.
| syntaxing wrote:
| If you're going this route, I'm pretty sure your LED strips must
| be RGBWW. Standard RGB strips won't be able to match the
| circadian lighting needed.
| clashmoore wrote:
| I use Home Depot's Wiz lightbulbs for this around my home. $10 a
| full-color bulb or so and each one individually connects to the
| home's wifi so there's no need for a hub or anything. The app
| works fine on my iPhone.
| evanlivingston wrote:
| I use incandescent and halogen everywhere and don't have a
| problem with color temperature. Also, the CRI of my bulbs is
| incredible.
|
| My house has maybe 20 light bulbs in it, most of them under 75
| watts, except for a couple of strategic halogen fixtures.
|
| Sometimes I think about getting LED smart lighting, but then I
| think about how many iterations of setups I would have to go
| through it get everything dialed in, all the e-waste I would be
| contributing to, all the plastic, all the security
| vulnerabilities, all the software updates, all the glitches, all
| the flicker from cheap PWD circuitry and I decide to stick with
| simple glass and red hot metal.
| Syonyk wrote:
| On top of that, even the "warm" color temperature LEDs put out
| a pretty good spike of blue light. I'm working on some analysis
| of this, and even the "warm glow" sort... yeah, there's a ton
| of blue. Right in the realm of spectrum that convinces our body
| it's day.
|
| So I'm not sure that the whole color shifting makes a big
| difference if you don't get rid of the blue as well. White LEDs
| are generally blue LEDs with phosphor coatings, but they still
| leak the blue. It's quite annoying.
|
| I've been going back to incandescents and they're properly nice
| in the evenings.
| Marsymars wrote:
| > I use incandescent and halogen everywhere and don't have a
| problem with color temperature.
|
| Well, you might not have a problem, but some people like colour
| temperatures >3000K.
|
| > Sometimes I think about getting LED smart lighting, but then
| I think about how many iterations of setups I would have to go
| through it get everything dialed in, all the e-waste I would be
| contributing to, all the plastic, all the security
| vulnerabilities, all the software updates, all the glitches,
| all the flicker from cheap PWD circuitry and I decide to stick
| with simple glass and red hot metal.
|
| I've found a lot of that hassle is mitigated by getting high-
| end dumb LED bulbs, paired with reliable smart switches (only
| where specifically required for automation purposes) from a
| traditional lighting manufacturer with long support periods.
| (Lutron.)
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| [dupe]? This was submitted multiple times ago when it came out a
| month ago
| aaron695 wrote:
| odiroot wrote:
| This actually makes so much sense, as opposed to changing the
| colours on your laptop/phone. You want your electronic devices to
| just be darker, while preserving the original colours.
|
| While making your LED lamps warmer is more pleasant to the eyes,
| without affecting how you view your screens.
| Marsymars wrote:
| FYI Apple devices by default adjust screen colour temperature
| based on ambient light temperature. (Branded "True Tone".)
| noobface wrote:
| Done this for the past 6 years running a combo of cheap zwave
| color temp adjusting lights, smart things, and a smart things app
| automation called circadian daylight.
|
| Guide/Forum: https://community.smartthings.com/t/circadian-
| daylight-smart...
|
| Makes the evenings more laid back and I'm able to sleep a bit
| easier. Well worth the effort to get it setup.
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| What kind of bulbs are you using? Most of the z-wave ones I
| found do not have great CRI and the cheap ones generally don't
| support white color temperature at all (falling back on some
| RGB).
| noobface wrote:
| Looks like I was mistaken. We've replaced all the zwave bulbs
| with Sylvania Osram zigbee-based ones in our new place.
| Cheapo stuff, but they don't flicker when adjusting
| temperatures/brightness:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/73742-SYLVANIA-Adjustable-
| SmartThings...
|
| Smart things has been a bit of a mess lately with their
| automation related to zigbee. They've got a hotfix rolling
| out, but it's been a month or two of random lights turning on
| or refusing to turn off.
| mozman wrote:
| I have recessed lighting in my home with non-serviceable
| LEDs.
|
| I would love to find a replacement that supports multiple
| color temperatures.
|
| Suggestions solicited!
| Marsymars wrote:
| My house has recessed LEDs throughout with hardware
| switches to control the colour temperature between five
| options. My approach has been to set colour temperature
| based on room (warmer in living rooms, basement, cooler in
| kitchen, etc.). I then use separate lamps or light fixtures
| to fill in where I want different colour temperatures.
| (Bedrooms and offices have ceiling fans with warm lights as
| well as some hue lights with colour temp that changes based
| on time, kitchen and dining room have warmer pendant lights
| / chandelier, etc.)
|
| Some manufacturers make dumb bulbs that dim-to-warm, which
| are very nice for some applications. (Dim-to-warm recessed
| LEDs exist, but they weren't optimal for my application.)
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| I just replaced everything with high-hats.
|
| The decision was made easier when the living room ceiling
| collapsed on me.
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| I've been doing this for years with Lifx bulbs:
| https://github.com/adamjacobmuller/lifx/
|
| Works really well. Lifx bulbs have excellent CRI (proper color
| temperature adjustments, not just fumbling with RGB) the only
| downside being they are not cheap. Worth it IMO though.
| CharlesW wrote:
| Apple's supported this for a while via HomeKit Adaptive
| Lighting as well. It's great that it's becoming more
| ubiquitous!
| fotta wrote:
| I wish I could adjust the curve though. It's still too white
| in the evenings for me.
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| This is part of why I wrote my own software to do this.
| Lifx kinda had the feature implemented (I do no like how
| theirs works) but also the curve was not great. Too dim in
| daytime, too bright at 2am.
| tshaddox wrote:
| Yeah, that was released with iOS 14 in September 2020.
| There's very little official information or documentation I
| can find on it, but it's mentioned here:
|
| https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/control-
| accessories-i...
| xoa wrote:
| Lighting was the first and still most meaningful smarthome thing
| I've done, though I did it much more manually. Hue bulbs don't
| require any sort of WAN link, the hub(s) will work fine purely
| via LAN (though without firmware updates sadly without opening a
| hole), and of course one can then remote in with a VPN (via a
| bounce/mesh if you don't have a fixed IP) like anything else LAN-
| based. And 3rd party apps can seamlessly deal with multiple hubs.
| This is a fun read because I've been considering moving to Home
| Assistant, primarily because I'm worried about what happens when
| the hubs inevitably fail. 10+ years after its launch Philips has
| still never bothered to implement and backup/restore
| functionality(!!!), so that's a real driver. But in terms of pure
| functionality it's worked very well to code up a bunch of manual
| timers and time-of-day-based options on switches.
|
| And in terms of QoL impact it's been a pretty big deal for us.
| For context I live near the Canadian border, so not Alaska-level
| in terms of differences in night/day over the course of a year
| but far enough north that it does vary quite a lot. Being able to
| have a whole "sunrise" scene for the house, to have "daylight"
| with varying use of color and brightness (I've added 2 or 3 way
| bulb systems to a bunch of lamps to deal with Hue color bulbs not
| having as much brightness range as would be ideal), and warmth at
| night has made it so much easier to maintain proper sleep cycles.
| Rather then an audible alarm, I have a 15-minute animation of
| "sunrise" I put together that gently wakes me up and by the time
| it's getting to the whiter/bluer portion I'm set, I head down
| without any grogginess even when it's still black out. This all
| works for motion sensors too, and I've been able to massively cut
| down blue light emission and emission period of outdoor light at
| night without compromising safety and that I think is quite
| important for wildlife. There has been research on rampant blue
| light (and artificial light in general) affecting insect
| populations, which are under pressure anyway.
|
| I think Smart Home kit is powerful and can be (and certainly has
| been) misused. I will not touch anything with any sort of
| internet requirement, I segment things onto their own VLANs, and
| I'd be more cautious about it for things without the same visible
| indicators or with more potential side effects. But it has a real
| place too, and lighting is a perfect use case. I hope efforts
| like Matter pan out, the real issue is how vertically tied a lot
| of stacks are.
| holahola2020 wrote:
| hello
| holahola2020 wrote:
| hola
| teslabox wrote:
| In the beginning of Electric Light, all bulbs were 2500K
| (incandescent). Mercury Vapor lights started getting used
| outdoors, but eventually the lighting industry figured out High
| Pressure Sodium (blue-free), and Low Pressure Sodium (pure
| orange) for outdoor lighting. Halogens can be tuned, I think...
| Some Halogens are 3000K. Automotive halogens are much more
| orange/yellow than the halogens I have in my ceiling fan.
|
| The two essential tools for creating a tolerable light in our
| modern world are dimmer switches and the using safe color
| temperatures for LED light sources.
|
| > The most significant benefit I've noticed is that I can get
| back to sleep after getting up in the middle of the night--now
| that I'm no longer blinded by harsh overhead light in the
| bathroom.
|
| My bathroom has too much light most of the time. If I was
| "working on my makeup" the amount of light would be just right,
| but that's not me. I bought my first dimmer switch at Habitat for
| Humanity. It was the kind that has a little lever next to the
| on/off switch - basically you decide on the amount of light, then
| it's pre-set to that amount.
|
| The Habitat dimmer switch was okay, but I'd still walk into the
| bathroom from a black hallway and blind myself, as I never
| checked the light level before hitting the switch. On surveying
| the dimmers at Home Depot, I settled on the kind that starts
| "off", and gradually increases the light level.
|
| My other dimmer switches are the classic round-dimmer option, and
| one that has a button and a big 'how much light do you want' ....
| "slide":
|
| https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wiring-Devices-Light-...
|
| I have three bedroom light switches. Ceiling fan light has
| halogen bulbs with a slide dimmer. Outlet switch has a deep red
| LED bulb in a table lamp. There was a 5000K fluorescent above the
| closet that I replaced with a fixture from the thrift store, that
| has a mix of orange and red bulbs.
|
| The kitchen has horrible hanging lights over the stove. Someone
| installed 3000K LED bulbs. I replaced these with incandescents
| and halogens, and installed a dimmer, but they were all terrible.
| Eventually I found some 2000K "Amber" Philips LED bulbs. These
| work with my LED dimmer, and are tolerable. With the Amber bulbs
| at least you're not staring into an artificial sun. If it was up
| to me, I'd get rid of the hanging lights and go back to the 90's
| light canisters in the ceiling.
|
| tl/dr: Good lighting is invisible. Bad lighting forces people to
| stare into artificial suns. "5000K" light sources are for plants,
| NOT people. To protect eyes, slide dimmers that always start with
| the minimum amount of light are the greatest.
| bravoetch wrote:
| Good dimmers have adjustable 'minimum' settings. Often a simple
| plastic screw behind the plate that you can tweak.
|
| Philips 'warm glow' bulbs are warmer when dim, and cooler when
| bright. I use these throughout. In combination with smart
| dimmers that allow setting the 'on power' in HA. At sunrise and
| sunset the on-power for my dimmers is reset to 100% and 30%
| respectively.
| jefftk wrote:
| _> In the evenings, after the sun sets, the lights dim, and it
| gets harder to read and work on projects--that's a feature. It's
| a signal that it's time for bed._
|
| Here in Boston the sun will set at 4:30 today, but that's way too
| early to be starting to send my body "time to go to bed" signals.
| jonah wrote:
| Did you know that the actual, original, F.lux works with Philips
| Hue!
|
| https://justgetflux.com/lighting/
| Semaphor wrote:
| Kinda. I never managed to get it to work.
|
| I then tried it with home assistant a few years ago, until I
| finally stopped using both f.lux and leaving my lights on
| yellow anyway ;)
| philihp wrote:
| This should have always been a feature of the Hue bulbs. Might
| have been able to justify the cost, but now they're just 4x the
| cost of competitors that don't need a hub.
| hermanb wrote:
| It is a feature of the Hue bulbs being worked upon, see:
| https://hueblog.com/2022/07/16/natural-light-new-function-
| no...
| jedberg wrote:
| Ha, I've been doing this manually for years. I found smart lights
| that could get as low as 1850k and then put them in key areas in
| the house. After the kids go to bed, I try to limit all lighting
| to 1850K (as well as using that color temp on all screens that I
| use at night).
|
| Of course I'm just one person so it's all anecdotal, but it
| definitely has helped my sleep in a noticeable way since I did
| it.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| Cutting total light down a lot helps, too. The 60-75 watt
| (incandescent or equivalent) standard for lights--often with
| several such bulbs active per room, even--is way brighter than
| needed. Dropping room light to only enough to navigate the room
| safely, and using slightly-brighter (but still nowhere near 60
| watt) lamps, either hand-portable or in particular locations,
| makes a huge difference, and you can still do almost anything
| in that kind of lighting.
|
| Once you get used to much lower lighting at night, ordinary
| whole-room lighting seems insane. Why try to make it as bright
| as day at night? You can read, play board and card games, play
| music, even draw or something like that, with a small faction
| as much light as the typical house puts out when you flip the
| light switch in a room. And it has big effects on sleepiness
| (if you don't ruin it by staring at a hyper-stimulating glowing
| rectangle--color temp may help a little, but Internet-connected
| screens are sleep poison)
| anikom15 wrote:
| What's the value? Sunlight is free for daytime, and soft white
| bulbs are cheaper than smart bulbs for nighttime. Traditional
| timers, switches, and the clapper can add 'automation' if
| necessary.
| clktmr wrote:
| There are light bulbs that will automatically decrease light
| temperature when they are dimmed (e.g. Phillips with "Warm
| Glow"). There is no use case for either warm bright or cold dim
| light.
|
| Made the installation much simpler for me, because you can use
| standard dimmers without an extra communication path for CCT.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| FWIW, Apple HomeKit + Hue has supported this for a few years
| (fall 2020?), they call it Adaptive Lighting, and for me this has
| been a killer app.
|
| It's kind of a bummer that Hue doesn't support it natively, but
| since I was already in the Homekit ecosystem, it was fine for me.
|
| I've paired this with powerful Sowilo [1] light strips, which
| have excellent warm/daylight white range and brightness, and it's
| kept S.A.D. in relative check.
|
| [1] https://sowilodesign.com I'm sure some people can come up
| with a cheaper solution via AliExpress than Sowilo's, but having
| a turnkey solution that integrated with Hue was essential for me.
| drewbitt wrote:
| HomeKit adaptive lighting requires an always-at-home iPad or
| Apple TV to set it up. Until I have those I find manually
| setting a large amount of Hue schedules at various times to be
| OK.
| Marsymars wrote:
| Note that Apple has taken away the ability of the iPad to
| serve as a Home Hub in the latest iPadOS, and the HomePod or
| HomePod Mini can also serve as Home Hubs.
| artimaeis wrote:
| Just to be pedantic, the current iPadOS _does_ support it.
| But there will be an update to the Home software later this
| year that removes the ability for the iPad to serve as a
| home hub.
|
| https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-16/
|
| > 14. The new Home architecture is a separate update in the
| Home app, and will be available in a software update later
| this year. It requires all Apple devices that access the
| home to be using the latest software. Sharing control of
| your home and receiving Home notifications require a home
| hub. Only Apple TV and HomePod are supported as home hubs.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| I've been really confused by this regression of theirs.
| But I note that the shift will happen at the same time as
| they introduce Matter support, so perhaps that's related?
| artimaeis wrote:
| That's my suspicion as well! I'm looking forward to
| seeing what comes of the change.
| lloeki wrote:
| I've been endlessly enraged that they would not allow a Mac
| Mini to serve as a Home Hub, while allowing a mobile device
| that may not be always plugged (and thus may run out of
| battery or not be home) in to serve as one.
|
| At least it's consistent now.
| squokko wrote:
| They probably never wrote any of the software for
| anything but iOS
| WorldMaker wrote:
| I've been doing it with Hue schedules too for a while. The
| Hue app does have automations support of rules based on
| Sunrise and Sunset. It's not quite as smart as HomeKit
| adaptive lighting because you can not, say, turn off lights
| during sunrise and expect them to wakeup in your post-sunset
| mood at the right hour, but if you are automating all
| lighting with the Hue hub alone and never using switches, it
| seems to work just fine.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| > _which have excellent warm /daylight white range and
| brightness_
|
| I must add that full-color lighting has turned out to be a
| gimmick. But a wide "white" color range (what Hue calls "White
| Ambiance") has been the real game-changer for me. Sowilo does a
| great job with its 2200k to 6500k "white" range.
|
| These kind of LED lights are called "CCT" for "Color Calibrated
| Temperature", if you're searching on AliExpress.
| odysseus wrote:
| Adaptive Lighting also works with the cheaper Philips Wiz
| bulbs, provided you use HomeBridge. ( I'm using this plugin for
| Wiz support: https://github.com/kpsuperplane/homebridge-wiz-
| lan#readme ) There's probably a Home Assistant plugin too ...
|
| Wiz bulbs will also be getting Matter support within the next
| year, so we'll be able to add them to HomeKit "natively".
| matthewmcg wrote:
| I've used an app called Wake Up Light for a while with my Lutron
| dimmers and HomeKit. You set up some basic parameters and it
| generates a series of automations that gradually dims the light
| up to a specified brightness at a specified time. It makes waking
| up easier for me when it's dark outside.
| xwowsersx wrote:
| I would love to do this, but without running my own machines and
| doing all the hacking (as fun and educational as that seems like
| it would be!) What is the easiest route to getting lighting
| throughout the house to match circadian rhythm?
| Terretta wrote:
| For curious buyers, this is already more or less built in:
|
| - Philips Hue + Hue Hub : the default Hue app can do this,
| leveraging Hue Labs "Feel better with light" that runs from the
| hub so you don't need a laptop or other device after the formula
| is installed.
|
| - Apple HomeKit Adaptive Lighting + Hue or Eve -- I'm a big fan
| of Eve light strips. See more accessories here:
| https://www.imore.com/best-accessories-with-homekit-adaptive...
|
| Beyond those, there are other options w/o getting too tricky:
|
| - Hue + Hue Automations + LivingScenes (or similar) + shift at
| sundown/sunrise
|
| - Hue Labs (various other options)
|
| - Third party apps like HueDynamics, and f.lux itself
|
| - IFTTT: https://ifttt.com/connect/weather/hue
|
| For what it's worth, the Philips Hue white bulbs that vary the
| white temperature are great, with a better fuller white than the
| full color bulbs.
| proee wrote:
| How about a pair of goggles with a filter that can dynamically
| adjust the amount and color of light that gets through to your
| eyes. So, no matter what the environment you're in, your eye
| always get the right light at the right time?
| thealch3m1st wrote:
| Was doing this with HomeKit and Philips hue years ago.
| darkwater wrote:
| Circadian lights and dimmed (don't have color bulbs there)
| bathroom lights at night with motion sensor are alone a reason
| big enough to start this domotic journey.
| thegagne wrote:
| On this topic, I need to replace the 2x4 flush fluorescents
| (ballasts are bad) in my basement. Any suggestions?
|
| Also looking for basic motion sensor to turn them off when nobody
| is down there.
| hedora wrote:
| Bypass the ballasts (trivial if you are comfortable with AC
| wiring) and buy a no-ballast led tube. The company I purchased
| mine from went out of business.
|
| Make sure the CRI is above 90, assuming you care.
| pkulak wrote:
| I would like to do something like this, but it would mean moving
| the smart bits from my switches to my bulbs, which I'm just not
| really willing to do. Right now, if I take a hammer to my Home
| Assistant server, all my lights still turn on and off at the
| wall.
|
| A good option might be to move to those new Inovelli Blue Zigbee
| switches and pair them directly with the bulbs. But I've already
| swapped all the switches in my house once...
| rednerrus wrote:
| Am I overthinking this or can I just use the Lifx bulbs an the
| sunset lights routine in the Alexa app?
| diimdeep wrote:
| I am testing atm theory that cycling environment color
| temperature from cold to warm and back to cold in 90 seconds
| boost your performance in monotonic work by at least 15%. There
| is some old publication somewhere accoring to my sources, but I
| could not find it.
| MattDemers wrote:
| If you're interested in HomeAssistant to solve this problem, I
| wrote a simpler implementation, [1] of using the sunrise/sun
| position sensor to change scenes for a room's lights. This didn't
| involve having a Zigbee hub like this post suggests, mostly
| because all my lights were Hue, or Zigbee-compatible (IKEA-
| branded Tradfri lights) that were already on my Hue bridge.
|
| I found this worked for me, since I only needed to create four
| automations:
|
| - What happens if the lights are turned on after/before sunset
| (2)
|
| - What happens if if the lights are already on after/before
| sunset when it changes (2)
|
| This implementation seems more around more fine adjustments to
| brightness/colour/colour temp, but mine's more geared towards "Is
| the sun down? Change the scene."
|
| [1] https://mattdemers.com/sun-specific-light-automations-
| with-h...
| themaninthedark wrote:
| This looks amazing! I have been following home automation with a
| bit of skepticism, after all any fool can muck things up but to
| truly muck it up you require a computer and I dislike the
| traditional offerings due to privacy reasons.
|
| But this is something along the lines of what I would hope home
| assistance would do as well as being all self-hosted!
| hermanb wrote:
| https://hueblog.com/2022/07/16/natural-light-new-function-no...
| liotier wrote:
| A mix of 5500degk high-CRI LED and CFL in every room. Night is
| when I switch them off. Bang-bang control for the circadian
| rhythm !
| fassssst wrote:
| A bought a bunch of Hue bulbs to setup auto color temperature
| changing, but both my wife and I found we prefer warm white at
| all times. Oh well.
| chem83 wrote:
| While I'm a die-hard LED bulb consumer for its obvious longevity
| and efficiency advantages, I always wonder whether their
| seemingly invisible flickering messes up more with my well-being
| than the lack of light temperature and light brightness controls
| would. Would be nice to see some research on this.
| outworlder wrote:
| Since when LED bulbs flicker?
| function_seven wrote:
| A lot of cheaper ones do half-wave rectification on the mains
| voltage, so they flicker at 60hz (or 50hz). Slightly "better"
| ones will do full-wave rectification but no smoothing, so
| they flicker at 120hz (or 100hz).
|
| A crap ton of decorative "Edison-style" bulbs have this cheap
| or non-existant circuitry in them. Buying from Amazon is a
| huge gamble. I have slow-mo video of disappointing lights.
|
| The quality bulbs will power the LEDs from a smooth DC
| voltage and not flicker.
| lbj wrote:
| I think the sun was actually invented for this purpose
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| I'm currently looking to retrofit my place with variable color
| temperature lights. In industry parlance, it's is called "Tunable
| White". On one hand, non-hobbyist industry has a ton of great
| hardware options. High CRI, high R9, guaranteed lack of white
| point drift, 0.1%-100% dimming (although 85 CRI and 10-100% is
| most of what you'd typically find at Home Depot), etc.
|
| My issue is that there are several competing control standards
| (with 0-10V being the more common but primitive one for America),
| and plenty of them (like PoE Ethernet lighting - super cool IMHO)
| are very much commercial-only. And stuff like Lutron's RadioRA is
| quite proprietary, with not much interoperability.
|
| On the other hand, going with Phillips Hue or similar will lock
| me into that ecosystem - which also dictates which lights and
| switches I could use.
| the_pwner224 wrote:
| Philips Hue operates over Zigbee so there isn't vendor lock in.
| Like you, I've also had exposure to the high end industrial LED
| emitters, but using those at home is hard. I ended up going
| with Ikea TRADFRI bulbs, they are much cheaper than Hue (USD
| 9-13 each) and don't seem to be any worse than the Hue bulbs.
| Ikea also sells Tradfri buttons (switches to control the bulbs)
| and motion sensors. And not relevant for this, but also Tradfri
| controllable power outlets.
|
| I'm using a Sonoff Zigbee 3.0 dongle (available on ebay for
| $20, uses a TI Zigbee chip) plugged into a small single board
| computer server. Zigbee2MQTT is FOSS software which interfaces
| with the Zigbee dongle and manages the Zigbee network. You can
| pair devices to the network with with its web GUI. Zigbee2MQTT
| allows you to control the devices over MQTT, a lightweight
| messaging protocol. I wrote a Python script for this. It
| connects to MQTT and listens for messages from the buttons (on,
| off, brightness up/down, CCT up/down). When it gets a message
| from a button or motion sensor, the script sends a MQTT command
| to the relevant bulb / group of bulbs.
|
| My setup is all Ikea Tradfri, but I could very easily add in
| Hue bulbs or other Zigbee devices such as ones from Aqara or
| Sonoff. I just purchased a Zigbee thermostat but haven't gotten
| around to setting it up yet. The whole thing works without
| internet access. Though you could expose the MQTT server to the
| internet and set up a method to control your devices when away
| from home.
|
| The main risk is that the industry moves past Zigbee. It's
| already moving to Thread & Matter, but I've only done a bit of
| research into that. I think Zigbee will be supported and
| products will continue to be available for a while. Or a self-
| hosted Thread software might also end up existing.
|
| The tradfri bulbs don't dim to 0.1% but they get pretty dim.
| And your control software could do things like selectively turn
| off certain bulbs in a room as you command it to lower
| brightnesses. The CCT range is good enough for me. The Tradfri
| bulbs are specified as >90 CRI. They don't flicker.
| function_seven wrote:
| > _On the other hand, going with Phillips Hue or similar will
| lock me into that ecosystem - which also dictates which lights
| and switches I could use._
|
| Good news, there's no lock in with Hue. I have about 20 of
| those bulbs around my house and they all work great with the
| generic Zigbee coordinator attached to my Home Assistant box. I
| don't use the Hue Hub, nor do I use the app.
|
| Alongside those bulbs I have another 15-ish Sengled bulbs that
| also speak Zigbee. They're cheaper and similar in quality, but
| the color temps don't get as low as Hue. (2700K vs. 2200K on
| the Hue)
|
| Only caveat with the Hue bulbs is that if you need to reset
| them for any reason, you'll need either a Hue Hub or one of
| their dimmers to do that. So I guess there's a little lock-in
| on that front, but it's not an ecosystem thing where you're
| stuck.
| atrainedmonkey wrote:
| To avoid vendor lockin you can run an install of Home Assistant
| with a Deconz zigbee USB dongle, which can then act as a hub
| for a massive range of zigbee devices. including Phillips hue,
| but I use Ikea's Tradfri bulbs at a third of the price.
| Duhck wrote:
| I started a company to pursue circadian lighting (called Twist)
| and sadly pivoted away from it as a core value proposition
| because of weak reception from the market.
|
| I feel we were 20 years too early (we shut down about 5 years
| ago).
|
| Our tech enabled smart circadian lighting (we called it adaptive
| lighting) without configuration, an app, or wifi. The lightbulbs
| worked without any smart gadgetry necessary.
|
| Every time the switch turned on the light made a 20 ms
| computation based on the time it stored (via a low power clock
| and a super cap) and turned to the right brightness and color
| temperature automatically. This was protected by a patent but
| also could not find a buyer for the tech despite how
| differentiated it was
|
| Now I have an entire home with hue downlights + bulbs that does
| circadian lighting (with HASS as well) and while its not nearly
| as elegant of a solution as Twist (aforementioned startup), it is
| pretty great and a huge life changer to me and my fiance.
|
| Edit: for context we use Philips Hue downlight retrofits + bulbs
| in other fixtures, all white ambiance, and Lutron Aurora dimmers,
| connected to HASS on a RBPI, running adaptive lighting from HACS
| Duhck wrote:
| Adding our failed Series A pitch deck because I think its
| interesting for this crowd:
|
| https://docsend.com/view/bm5za5w
| hatware wrote:
| How did these Twist bulbs account for differences in time zone?
| If I have some of these lights and I move hundreds of miles to
| a new time zone, plug the same lights into the new home, how do
| they lights know?
| Duhck wrote:
| Yea great question. The bulbs were provisioned via an iOS app
| and there was a Wifi bulb sold that had a speaker in it (part
| of our pivot towards more marketable products)
|
| The bulbs could have been updated either by A) having a wifi
| bulb that then synchronized each other node via a low power
| mesh network, or B) by opening the app and connecting to the
| network.
|
| We effectively used the BLE radio to make a mesh network and
| a BLE device (phone) could connect and send and receive over
| the mesh.
| bboygravity wrote:
| This is exactly a product idea I had and a product I have
| been desperate to find and buy. Included the "no cloud
| connection or hub needed" being a desired feature.
|
| Instead I now have a crappy overly complex setup that
| involves a bunch of lifx bulbs, a flic hub and buttons and
| a synology NAS running some python scripts from task
| scheduler every few minutes to set the desired temperature
| at certain time ranges (hard coded).
|
| That Twist idea sound(ed) perfect. What a bummer that it
| didnt work out.
| ilyt wrote:
| I kinda wish industry would converge on one standard for
| the devices themselves and compete on "IOT cloud/hub
| controller" instead of trying to build tiny closed
| ecosystems around eachother.
|
| MQTT + some schema for typical devices would be a dream.
| Maybe have some of those devices be able to act as hub
| themselves with option to connect to "bigger" controller
| (whether cloud or on premise) but still be able to handle
| basic functions when say internet is down
| striking wrote:
| That kind of already exists with Home Assistant. Granted,
| it often feels like a thin wrapper around lots of tiny
| closed ecosystems, but the fact that most things
| interoperate well enough means I can recommend it.
|
| Matter/Thread exist as well, and some smart device makers
| claim to already have adopted it, so we'll see how that
| all goes.
| __turbobrew__ wrote:
| I wonder how much it would cost to put an gps receiver in
| every lightbulb? If you can get a gps signal you can get a
| rough guesstimate of the bulbs location and time and
| therefore adjust to fit the local circadian rhythm.
|
| Or maybe you could sync to a local radio time station?
| ilyt wrote:
| $2-3 but GPS antenna is pretty bulky so forget it.
|
| Local radio time is generally iffy if you can't afford
| bigger antenna. Syncing my watch is basically impossible
| indoors, althought you might be able to get a bit bigger
| antenna in a bulb... but they will also be in much worse
| locations (near walls and inside metal enclosures)
| Duhck wrote:
| both GPS and radio time receivers are very expensive. LED
| bulbs are a commodity product and thus have little room for
| margin.
|
| Our low power clock + super cap added $1.25 of BOM which
| translates to $2.50-$3 of cost to the user.
|
| Led bulbs at Home Depot are $3-5 on the low end.
| [deleted]
| drc500free wrote:
| In all honesty, I've found it healthier to have fixed color
| temperature in different rooms, and change what room I'm in
| throughout the day. I'm only in my bedroom when warm lighting
| makes sense, I'm only in my office when cool lighting makes
| sense. That helps establish other healthy habits than just
| sleep, and keeping the bedroom dedicated to sex and sleep is a
| good practice anyway to combat insomnia.
| runjake wrote:
| I do this, but also have different lighting options in
| certain rooms, like the office.
|
| In my office, the ceiling light is a daylight bulb, but i
| also have a couple lamps with warmer lights. During the day,
| I run the ceiling light, and after sunset, turn the ceiling
| light off and turn the lamps on.
|
| Perhaps a bit Luddite, but less fuss and cost.
| TremendousJudge wrote:
| That sounds great, but many people (especially those living
| in cities) don't have that many rooms in their home, so other
| solutions are needed.
| argondonor wrote:
| In the past I have put up a curtain around my bed (although
| originally for other reasons.) Like a homemade canopy bed!
| [deleted]
| liotier wrote:
| > keeping the bedroom dedicated to sex and sleep
|
| Yes. No computer of any sort, the alarm clock's only advanced
| technology is radio-synchronization and I don't even let a
| book enter the bedroom - that is for the living-room couch.
| Does wonder for sanctuarizing the late evening !
| vageli wrote:
| Would you mind sharing the patent number? It sounds like an
| interesting technology to read more about.
| Duhck wrote:
| https://patents.google.com/patent/US9784417B1/en?oq=9784417
|
| A lot of the claims surrounded how we designed and
| manufactured a light bulb that was modular.
|
| We could support speakers, cameras, and sensors in the same
| form factor without any material mechanical or electrical
| changes.
| m4jor wrote:
| Have you ever thought about just releasing the patent for
| everyone to use? Patents stifle innovation iirc.
| hobo_mark wrote:
| Not to sound like the infamous Dropbox comment, but would the
| patent prevent you from doing? Changing light temperature and
| colour over the course of the day? I've been doing that for
| years with a cronjob. Doing so without a microcontroller?
| Those cost pennies nowadays.
| 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
| > we shut down about 5 years ago
| Duhck wrote:
| The patent was handed over to our debt financing company
| (WTI) and sits idle.
|
| The actual patent covered the method for tracking time
| without power and for synchronizing clocks over a low power
| mesh network
| yeutterg wrote:
| We've worked on similar circadian products, and I have a
| similar setup at home. IMO, we're getting closer to the time
| the market is ready. The main learning is to release MVPs and
| continue to gather feedback from/build a relationship with the
| core early adopter market. The market is small, probably in the
| tens of millions of dollars annually, but the right solution is
| going to be easy to setup/use with a good UI, and priced at a
| slight premium over other lighting (but not exorbitantly).
| Duhck wrote:
| If you ask me I dont think average users will ever pay for a
| solution to this problem.
|
| People are simply not aware that their blue-heavy LED lights
| either cause harm to their sleep schedule or simply feel
| clinical at night.
|
| I live in a very affluent mountain town now, one thats very
| aware of light pollution and is a general haven for health
| nuts, and yet 75% of the houses I see with lights on at night
| have blue-white lights. Especially in their kitchens. This
| makes sense as they are working areas
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > If you ask me I dont think average users will ever pay
| for a solution to this problem.
|
| I tend to agree. I'm inclined to appreciate the technology,
| yet at the same time I don't think I like it well enough to
| blow $60/each to replace all my can lights with Hues. I
| just run 2700K bulbs for almost every light in the house
| (excepting the garage & my workshop), and in some areas I
| make it very bright in lieu of going towards the blue end
| of the spectrum.
| beebeepka wrote:
| Have you noticed the median age of those with white lights?
| I'd assume it's mostly old people. Personally, I'd stay in
| the dark before subjecting myself to that sort of unnatural
| light
| ilyt wrote:
| That sounds like something you want as a feature in bigger
| system, not something you'd want to buy a specific bulb just
| for that.
|
| > Every time the switch turned on the light made a 20 ms
| computation based on the time it stored (via a low power clock
| and a super cap) and turned to the right brightness and color
| temperature automatically.
|
| Where it got the time sync from ? You said it didn't need
| configuration or an app ?
| joch wrote:
| I would like to recommend Adaptive Lighting in favor of Circadian
| Lighting. It has the added benefit of being able to detect if
| someone manually adjusts the brightness or color, and then stops
| the automatic adjustment for that light.
|
| https://github.com/basnijholt/adaptive-lighting
| dayyan wrote:
| 2700K 90+ CRI bulbs + Dimmer
| kefabean wrote:
| some hi-CRI bulbs even lower the colour temperature to mimic
| incandescents when dimmed.
| cycrutchfield wrote:
| Dimmer + Philips Warm Glow 2200K-2700K bulb
| rsoto wrote:
| I wish something like this existed for TVs. Since I got my
| eyesight procedure 10+ years ago, I soon noticed I was quite
| sensitive to lights that didn't affect me at all (maybe my vision
| was too bad to even notice, don't know). That extreme sensitivity
| faded off in the first six months, but I still get annoyed by
| some lights and the first thing I do with a new PC/Phone is
| setting up Redshift[1] or Twilight[2], and although I'm not a big
| TV consumer, the times I do watch it, I wonder if there's a
| market for this kind of features.
|
| 1: https://github.com/jonls/redshift
|
| 2:
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid...
| Havoc wrote:
| Didn't realize there was an automation for it - neat.
| binarysolo wrote:
| Doesn't Hue do this already with a more elegant solution?
|
| I have a Hue setup at home and I do something like this, but
| hackier through an iPhone app I set up 4-5 years ago (it hasn't
| broken yet and I haven't touched it); I believe there are more
| elegant software solutions these days.
| bippingchip wrote:
| While I haven't gotten my lights set up like this, I do use home
| assistant, just like the author and it is simply amazing. For
| things like this, the setup can get quite complex, but the main
| benefit is that it provides a unified interface to any connected
| device in your home.
|
| My main use case is energy tracking: it does a marvelous job
| collecting and graphing data across a bunch of different sources:
| from the solar panels from one vendor, the semi proprietary smart
| meter protocol my electricity company has, weather data etc.
| Having all that data together in 1 place is an invaluable tool to
| make any investment decisions on energy improvements to our
| house.
| runjake wrote:
| How/what are you using to monitor your smart meter?
| makr17 wrote:
| Not OP, but in my jurisdiction the smart power meters
| broadcast consumption as SCM at 900MHz. rtlamr
|
| https://github.com/bemasher/rtlamr
|
| does a good job of receiving and decoding those broadcasts
| using a cheap SDR. My local water utility also broadcasts
| consumption as SCM+, also 900MHz. I'm able to grab both with
| the single SDR.
| pimeys wrote:
| Add Node-Red to that and building automations is a breeze. And
| with a stick such as Conbee 2 you can control all the lights
| and non-light ZigBee products directly from Home Assistant.
|
| And you do not have to firewall the bridge from calling home
| once a minute.
| mxstbr wrote:
| This reminded me of the video by DIY Perks building an
| "artificial sunlight" for their office:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqBsHSwPgw
|
| The amount of effort is unbelievable, but I'd love to have
| something like this at home. I can only imagine the impact on my
| productivity during winter evenings...
| bsimpson wrote:
| I was at a party this weekend at a co-op where many of the
| rooms had no windows. I'm sure something like that would be
| well-appreciated.
|
| A few years back there was a philanthropist who wanted to
| donate housing to a university, but one of his stipulations was
| that everyone got their own room, and that the rooms that
| didn't get natural light would be outfitted with an artificial
| window like this.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I don't really see an advantage to this over just installing
| fixed warm color temperature lights in the house. Depends on the
| building I suppose, but a well designed house should have enough
| natural light to only use the lights at the time when you would
| want 'warm.' If you live in at high latitude and need a 'SAD'
| light for morning and daytime use, that will always be a
| different light fixture and system, and therefore doesn't require
| this type of setup either.
|
| Ultimately, regular indoor lights just aren't bright enough to
| engage the biological response of daylight, regardless of color
| temperature.
| alar44 wrote:
| Depends on where you live. Where I'm at it gets dark at 4:30PM
| in the winter.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I dunno.
|
| I spend time in the evening working on art projects where the
| color rendition of LED-based "warm" bulbs is awful (can't tell
| the difference between the coated and uncoated sides of inkjet
| paper), although there are some halogen-based "warm" bulbs that
| are a lot better.
|
| Most of the lights in my house are set to "warm" but I do use
| "cool" when I need to make fine sensory distinctions and I have
| a work area with a few of those halogen-based bulbs that I turn
| on as needed.
|
| https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/colorviewbulbs.html
| fy20 wrote:
| Maybe in California you don't need this, but in the northern
| half of Europe (i.e. Germany and above) the weather this time
| of year is pretty abysmal. My office has floor to ceiling glass
| on three sides, but today at 2pm we had to turn on the lights
| because it was so cloudy and dark. The 10kWp of solar on my
| roof produced 2kWh today.
|
| I agree that most indoor lights are not bright enough, but
| that's mainly because there hasn't been an easy way to regulate
| them. There's no reason why you can't light your living space
| to 500 or more lux (most living rooms are barely 150 lux) at
| 6500k and regulate it down at night, and something like this
| makes it easy to do.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I found I need about 20k lux for much of the day to not feel
| sleepy or depressed in the daytime. I had to move to
| California and work outdoors to overcome this, I used to live
| far north, but even "extremely bright" indoor lights weren't
| enough to have a positive effect on me.
| LtWorf wrote:
| My office looks like candlelit... on dark days you get so
| sleepy.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| When I was living in Germany I felt like I was an astronaut
| in December because it never got very bright during the day
| and the nights seemed to last forever. My biological clock
| quickly got unstuck and started running free.
| dbttdft wrote:
| You do realize Northern Europeans are adapted to needing less
| sunlight? I would emulate candles if I were you. Which means
| warm color temperatures. So you don't need the product of
| this thread, you just need a simple warm color temperature
| bulb. Do some extra research and get one that doesn't
| flicker.
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| From lookin on amazon, SAD lights seem to be ~10k lux. I have
| 8*Lifx BR-30 at 1100 Lux each in my kitchen/living room. Seems
| pretty close.
| ianburrell wrote:
| SAD lights are used at distance of 1-2 ft to get that
| brightness.
|
| Your bulbs are probably 1100 lumen. Lumen and lux are
| different. Specifying lux requires specifying the distance or
| area. 8800 lumen on ceiling would be more like 800 lux at
| normal distance. Which is a bright room but not sunlight
| bright which is needed for SAD.
| jamesdwilson wrote:
| Is there any evidence F.lux and similar actually do anything
| other than make pretty lights? I mean, that's fine enough if
| that's what you want but I often hear health or sleep claims
| made. Are those substantiated in any way?
| JStanton617 wrote:
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S23527...
|
| tl;dr - for the core phone/laptop F.lux use case, no, it isn't
| substantiated
| jader201 wrote:
| If you have f.lux on a Windows machine and have Hue white/color
| ambient lights, you can already do this:
|
| https://justgetflux.com/lighting/
|
| I have this in my office setup, and it works well. Very nice,
| especially this time of year when it gets dark while I'm still
| working.
| dbttdft wrote:
| You could have saved all this trouble and just used time-tested
| incandescent bulbs. No offense but this whole article and thread
| is just getting each other to buy stupid crap.
|
| LED lights have far more problems than color temperature not
| matching the circadian rhythm (if that's even a problem... I just
| avoid blue light in general). 99% of them flicker, even without a
| dimmer, and most probably have bad color rendering qualities
| (CRI) too. In my experience, they're all too cold. They'll also
| be too dim yet still give you that "getting blinded" feeling. I
| visited a $7500 apartment and it was laughable how they included
| LEDs that flicker at somewhere around 60-100Hz. I just stopped
| using LEDs until I understand the market more, after already
| wasting hundreds on failed attempts to find an acceptable LED.
| For now sticking with warm color temperature incandescent bulbs,
| which are almost perfect. I don't need to raise the color
| temperature in the day.
| lepetitpedre wrote:
| Lights and hub from Ikea anyone? Super easy and the app works
| great for this.
| bryanmgreen wrote:
| Excellent.
|
| I wish that Hue and LIFX would also make a physical adjustment
| switch/knob for color temperature.
| wdewind wrote:
| I wished this too, and got close enough by buying the Hue
| remote switches:
|
| https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-dimmer-switch--lates...
|
| It turns out there are really only 3-4 different temperatures I
| use normally, and this allows you to switch between them. I
| also use the Hue timers so I frankly don't need to use this
| that often, but it's nice to be able to switch between both
| scenes and brightness levels without pulling out my phone
| (edit: and more importantly so people who aren't me can control
| the lights if they need).
|
| It's not a perfect solution: there are still some annoyances
| with people forgetting to leave the main switch on and only use
| the mounted remote, but overall I am very happy with this
| system.
| r2_pilot wrote:
| >It's not a perfect solution: there are still some annoyances
| with people forgetting to leave the main switch on
|
| I use light switch covers. They just screw on over the
| switch, and have one side open so you can manually manipulate
| it if you want, but it prevents accidental state changes.
| mgraczyk wrote:
| In San Francisco you can spot some of these at night. Look at the
| tall buildings, some of the windows are illuminated with a deep
| red.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Who needs to turn the lights on to go to the bathroom in a
| city? My bathroom don't have shades on the windows and I get
| enough light from the moon reflection and the street lights to
| do all I need to do in a bathroom in the middle of the night.
| It is not like I will put on contact lenses or look for a
| specific skincare product in the middle of the night.
|
| I can understand night being dark when you live in the middle
| of nowhere. In the city not so much.
| mgraczyk wrote:
| Not sure where you got bathroom from. The people I know who
| have this generally do their entire apartment.
|
| Also it gets dark here at like 5:30
| prmoustache wrote:
| Who would put deep red lights at 5:30? Now I am even more
| confused.
| m4jor wrote:
| I mean if your bathroom windows were on the other side of the
| house or had no street lights shining into them, you wouldn't
| be able to see...
| prmoustache wrote:
| I've never seen any room with window in a city where it was
| completely dark during the night unless the window was
| closed with shutters and curtains. Even during new moon
| with a cloudy sky there is usually so much light pollution
| that it is never completely dark.
| ceefan wrote:
| If you would like to achieve this based on simple dimming, or
| even better, by using smart switches instead of smart bulbs, take
| a look at NASA spinoff Bios Lighting.
|
| Here's their A19 (normal bulb) specsheet:
| https://bioslighting.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/BIOS_A19...
|
| There is also a spotlight-style BR30:
| https://bioslighting.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/BIOS_BR-...
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