[HN Gopher] Searchable List of Mastodon Servers
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Searchable List of Mastodon Servers
        
       Author : vyrotek
       Score  : 117 points
       Date   : 2022-11-05 16:27 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (instances.social)
 (TXT) w3m dump (instances.social)
        
       | defulmere wrote:
       | On Twitter I've seen a lot of criticism of the whole idea of
       | "choose a server" when joining Mastodon (and the fediverse in
       | general).
       | 
       | Instead of lists of servers, I wonder if a better onboarding
       | workflow would be...
       | 
       | - What username do you want?
       | 
       | - What are your interests? (click, click, click)
       | 
       | - Backend checks availability of username on matching servers
       | 
       | - Pick one of these: @username@abc.social, @username@def.org,
       | @username@xyz.social (with a description of the community
       | associated with each result).
       | 
       | In my opinion this could make the process feel more like choosing
       | an email address which, again in my opinion, could be more
       | familiar than "choose a server".
        
         | dane-pgp wrote:
         | That's actually a fantastic idea, and I assume that the main
         | barrier to implementing this isn't a technical one, but the
         | coordination problem of getting enough instance admins to opt-
         | in to appearing on this system, and finding some neutral third
         | party to maintain it (potentially the same people as run this
         | instances.social site).
         | 
         | Splitting your user story into smaller tasks, it seems like the
         | technical side could be implemented as follows:
         | 
         | - An agreed API / JSON format / microformat for instances to
         | list the top 3 user interests that distinguish them from other
         | instances (ideally using Wikidata Q identifiers[0], to create a
         | consistent cross-language taxonomy) and maybe a paragraph of
         | text to give a fuller description of the community
         | 
         | - An agreed API for checking whether a username is already
         | taken on an instance (and maybe a standardised query string
         | format supported by each instance, which allows a third party
         | site to send their visitor to that instance in such a way that
         | the visitor is presented with a sign-up page where the username
         | box is already filled)
         | 
         | - A site with a neutral domain name like "join the fediverse .
         | party" (or just re-use instances.social if that's catchy
         | enough), with the UX you describe
         | 
         | - A way for new instance admins to submit their instance for
         | inclusion (which triggers some automated checks like "is this
         | instance online?" and "which parts of the fediverse does it
         | federate with?")
         | 
         | Actually the hard part is probably preventing Sybil-attacks,
         | since some attacker could create millions of dummy instances
         | that have only one user on (though the instances will no doubt
         | lie and claim to have billions of users). Maybe there does need
         | to be some cabal or union of instance admins who can be trusted
         | to give estimates for how many genuine users are probably on
         | the smaller instances they federate with (reporting "0" or
         | "negative infinity" for instances which they block).
         | 
         | [0] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q43649390
        
         | kixiQu wrote:
         | https://instances.social/ already has a wizard that does a good
         | chunk of this, though not, I believe, with username
         | availability checking. There are a lot of different entry
         | points and they don't all pursue the same polish, for better or
         | worse.
        
       | allenu wrote:
       | I feel like the fact that there are different servers out there
       | has made zero difference in how I use mastodon. I follow some
       | people and that's it. I hardly ever view the local feed. I
       | suppose the problem is I didn't really shop around for a specific
       | server that matched my needs, but when you're starting out, what
       | do you even know what you're looking for? And how do you know
       | what difference it will even make?
        
       | mattkevan wrote:
       | Mastodon is interesting as like a lot of open-source projects it
       | focuses on solving a technical problem over a user-experience
       | problem. And it's why, even if Elon drives Twitter into a ditch,
       | like a Tesla on FSD, it'll never become the replacement.
       | 
       | The problem being solved with Mastodon is 'like Twitter but open
       | source and without central control'. Federated! Decentralised!
       | Instances!
       | 
       | Great for people who are interested in that sort of thing, but I
       | can guarantee that most Twitter users couldn't give two shits
       | about any of that, just as they don't care about Twitter's
       | infrastructure.
       | 
       | Things people do care about are ease of use (do I have to spend
       | more time thinking about how to post than what to post?) and
       | audience (are there things to see and will my stuff be seen?).
       | 
       | With Twitter the answers are clear, but with Mastodon the
       | emphasis on solving a particular architecture problem has led to
       | a host of usability issues that each add friction to the
       | experience.
       | 
       | People who care about federation and ownership and all that may
       | be willing to push through, but I'm not sure most would.
        
       | remram wrote:
       | This lists a lot of instances that are not accepting new
       | accounts. I am not sure how useful that is.
        
       | socialismisok wrote:
       | Mastodon evokes feelings of "year of Linux desktop" in me. Yes,
       | Linux is a great desktop but no, I don't think people are ready
       | to just up and move.
       | 
       | Mastodon is probably great, but I don't think people are ready to
       | move there.
        
         | emptyparadise wrote:
         | I don't think Linux desktop has had its "Windows might implode
         | and randomly shut down in the next year" moment yet. I can kind
         | of see why Mastodon is getting discussed here again.
        
           | chc wrote:
           | Yeah, we don't have Nadella publicly screaming about how
           | left-wing advertising execs are about to destroy Microsoft,
           | begging celebrities for money, and laying off half the
           | company with no warning. Twitter genuinely looks in need of
           | replacement at the moment.
        
         | shadowgovt wrote:
         | It's a lot more usable than I thought it would be when I joined
         | up. And it has a lot of features Twitter doesn't have that I
         | really appreciate... The fact that I can use markdown is pretty
         | great.
         | 
         | I don't think it will be for everybody... The federated
         | discoverability is going to be a turnoff for a lot of
         | individuals. But it's well cleared the bar of of "this will be
         | constant pain if you sign up."
        
       | schoen wrote:
       | As other people have said, it's kind of scary to think about
       | getting an account somewhere and not understanding that that
       | "place" has a specific culture or political orientation that ends
       | up making me a bad fit for it in a way I didn't understand.
       | 
       | And I guess imagine there are some potentially significant
       | incentive problems about the way that instances talk about
       | themselves and their communities.
       | 
       | How does the federation part work in practice when people run
       | their own instances?
        
         | M2Ys4U wrote:
         | Most people don't (and won't) run their own instances, either
         | because they lack the skills or resources (including time).
        
       | skybrian wrote:
       | Filtering on policy is somewhat useful.
       | 
       | How long ago it launched, whether the software is up-to-date,
       | uptime, latency, and what datacenter the server is running in
       | would be signals of whether the sysadmin is serious about
       | maintaining the server. (Weak signals, but better than nothing.)
       | 
       | Also, who is the admin? Are they anonymous?
       | 
       | On my third server now. After the first two stopped working, I
       | decided to stick with mastodon.social.
        
       | cmrdporcupine wrote:
       | I am liking Mastodon a lot, and digging the general vibe and
       | liking the smaller server I'm on. But can't help but feel that
       | we're just a bit of time and marketing away from somebody _"
       | professional"_ coming along and creating a massive instance that
       | federates into it, and tries to fill the Twitter niche more
       | directly. Mastodon.social got overwhelmed, and it's interesting
       | that there's nothing else to fill that niche of "I don't care
       | which server, I just want to be where the crowd is"
       | 
       | Maybe some ex-Twitter employees should fork Mastodon and go from
       | there?
        
       | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
       | Does this list include controversial instances that have been
       | defederated?
        
         | bsagdiyev wrote:
         | Not sure why this is light grey ("downvoted") -- it's a legit
         | question.
        
           | maxbond wrote:
           | I don't think it was downvoted because people think it's an
           | illegitimate question, but because it's generally seen as an
           | imposition on people's time to ask a question that could be
           | readily answered by clicking through to the site in question
           | and having a look. That is, after all, what anyone else would
           | do in order to answer the question. (I didn't vote on this
           | comment.)
        
             | Normille wrote:
             | >it's generally seen as an imposition on people's time to
             | ask a question that could be readily answered by clicking
             | through to the site in question and having a look
             | 
             | That's not going to help anyone know if there are other
             | Mastodon servers out there, which aren't on the list.
             | Unless that person is already aware of the existence of
             | said server in the first place.
             | 
             | Anyone remember when Gab had the biggest Mastodon instance
             | by far, by user numbers, but all the Mastodon indexes were
             | pretending it didn't even exist? The myth of the Fediverse
             | as some libertarian promised land free from censorship and
             | heavy handed control is just farcical.
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | Freedom of association is an essential part of freedom of
               | speech, and is one of the core principles of
               | libertarianism. One of the main features of Mastodon is
               | that individual instances have the option to either
               | federate with or reject other instances to curate the
               | character of the community they want to build. Unlike
               | Twitter, which puts everyone on a single instance, people
               | on Mastodon can choose to be in a community of people
               | with shared interests and values, hosted on an instance
               | with rules that they agree with. The decentralization
               | makes individual Mastodon instances more pleasant and
               | less divisive to their users. Forcing instances to
               | federate with others would be compelled speech, not free
               | speech, and would take away from what makes Mastodon
               | different from Twitter.
               | 
               | In the same way, forcing any website to list Gab would
               | not be free speech. (Gab disabled federation, so it is
               | not actually part of the fediverse anymore:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26012558.) Gab still
               | exists as a service running on free and open source code
               | derived from Mastodon because Mastodon is AGPLv3. Anyone
               | who wants to sign up for Gab can just do that.
        
             | bsagdiyev wrote:
             | Understood. I took it also as a statement, people seem to
             | be up in arms about free speech and Twitter but from what I
             | seen Mastodon will gladly announce their silencing of
             | opinions which seem to be anything not democrat adjacent.
             | As a squarely middle of the road voter why would I want to
             | use something like Mastodon?
             | 
             | Edit: fuck it maybe I'll setup an instance for people
             | similar to me and see what happens. I don't buy fully in to
             | either side and it's hard to find social groups that feel
             | similarly.
        
               | yborg wrote:
               | >Mastodon is one person
               | 
               | People really seem to completely miss the whole concept
               | of a federated ecosystem, Mastodon is just a tool, like
               | vBulletin, the whole point of it is that there isn't a
               | "Mastodon" that announces things.
        
             | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
             | Unless I already know what instances to look for, how could
             | I search for them?
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | I've seen a couple "free speech" instances in the list, yes.
        
         | socialismisok wrote:
         | The link is there, go try it and report back.
        
       | nixcraft wrote:
       | It would be best if you had users and followers to broadcast
       | messages. Right now, mastodon feels like a ghost town. But who
       | knows? There was a time when MySpace was king. Only time will
       | tell ..
       | 
       | Also, Twitter works because of eyeballs. However, with so many
       | Mastodon instances, people need to learn and find out who the
       | real @nixcraft is. Sorry to say this, but I don't think so; we
       | have an actual Twitter replacement right now. In another six
       | months, someone might build it, or Elon will make it better or
       | send it to /dev/null.
        
         | yogthos wrote:
         | It's kind of weird to me to say that a platform with millions
         | of users on it is a ghost town. I have both twitter and
         | Mastodon accounts, and I find the opposite to be true. I have
         | roughly the same number of followers on both platforms, and I
         | find that I see far more interaction on Mastodon than I do on
         | Twitter.
        
         | berkes wrote:
         | If you feel strongly about claiming the real nixcraft, you can
         | host your own instance at nixcraft.com. or get one for approx
         | the price of that infamous blue-check.
         | 
         | Only a person in control of nixcraft com can have an account
         | like @nix@nixcraft.com.
         | 
         | Something extremely powerful and for free through federation.
         | E.g. journalists or politicians who "require" a validated
         | checkmark, would benefit from their company or party having an
         | instance.
        
         | ay wrote:
         | We don't have the replacement for AOL either. We have the
         | internet instead. Things evolve.
         | 
         | As for who the "real" @nixcraft is - how would I know it on
         | Twitter ? The intuition is "first come first serve", but you
         | are one account hijack away from having to explain that
         | actually @nixcraft is _not_ the real one, despite claiming to
         | be so, and actually @latest_nixcraft is the true yourself.
         | 
         | You would probably do so in the other places that people know
         | you own: your website, your email sig, your GitHub account,
         | your HN profile. Same as you are doing right now. (I checked
         | only the HN profile)
         | 
         | With that method, what is the obstacle to adding the domain
         | name after that handle ?
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | Doesn't feel like a ghost town to me? I've watched my feed
         | explode in the last week though. Now I almost wish for a
         | ranking algorithm.
         | 
         | You won't see jack shit until you start following people,
         | though. It steadfastly will refuse to spoonfeed you. You have
         | to manually curate your feed.
         | 
         | So it can feel a bit bare at first... But I think the last few
         | years has shown the downsides of the _" let me show you what I
         | think you should like"_ approach...
         | 
         | 230,000 new users in the last week, 66,000 of them just in the
         | last 24 hours. Currently at about 30,000 posts per hour.
         | (according to @mastodonusercount@bitcoinhackers.org)
        
       | BryantD wrote:
       | Should Mastodon fans just be phrasing this kind of choice as if
       | it were email?
       | 
       | "You can have an email account on any number of servers, and you
       | can send email anywhere, no matter where your account is."
       | 
       | "You can have a Mastodon account on whichever server you like,
       | and you can follow people anywhere, no matter where your account
       | is."
       | 
       | It just seems like a paradigm people already understand that
       | might be more welcoming.
        
         | emptyparadise wrote:
         | That seems like a really nice way to do it.
         | 
         | "You can sign up with one of these main instances and follow
         | people no matter where their account is. If you find make a lot
         | of friends in a specific corner of the Fediverse, or just want
         | to switch to another instance, you can do so whenever you
         | want."
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | In fact I've seen that analogy made many times on Mastodon in
         | the last week.
        
         | Normille wrote:
         | And, to continue the email analogy [in response to all the
         | "Just change servers if you don't like the one you signed up
         | for"]
         | 
         | If you don't like your email provider, just change to a
         | different one...
         | 
         | Oh yeah. And you'll lose all your previous emails. But we won't
         | mention that.
        
           | lrvick wrote:
           | Actually on Mastodon you can change servers and keep your
           | followers and follows.
           | 
           | It has a built in mail forwarding process.
        
       | jrmg wrote:
       | This highlights why I'm so far not on Mastodon: Decision fatigue.
       | 
       | How do I find a server that 'matches' me but doesn't make me seem
       | like an over-enthusiastic single-issue or single-hobby dedicant -
       | and also isn't run by someone whose (perhaps currently
       | unespoused) views I'd find problematic?
       | 
       | Maybe I should just join what seems to be the default (because of
       | its friendly domain?) of http://mastodon.social. But that seems
       | defeat the purpose of decentralization - and (without evidence) I
       | don't really trust that mastodon.social is set up to handle the
       | huge influx of users at the moment...
        
         | linsomniac wrote:
         | FYI: I had signed up years ago on mastoton.social and not
         | really used it. I tried logging in a few days ago and it was
         | struggling under the load. Sounds like the admin of that
         | instance is buying hardware to support the new load.
        
         | elcapitan wrote:
         | To me it's like the difference between living in an anonymous
         | big city where I can do whatever I want without too many people
         | yelling at me, and having to pick some village where everybody
         | knows everybody and forces their rules on them. I would never
         | choose the latter just by my own nature, so Mastodon will never
         | be an alternative to twitter for me. Looking at that endless
         | list of specialized echo chambers of some people with their own
         | sub rules just makes me shudder immediately.
        
           | chc wrote:
           | There are general servers that provide basically the same
           | "anonymous in a big city" experience as Twitter (or at least,
           | as much as Twitter did 10 years ago).
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | lrvick wrote:
           | If you want to be on your own sovereign island you can host
           | your own Mastodon instance or pay a monthly fee to one of the
           | many Managed Mastodon providers and even use your own domain
           | name.
           | 
           | It is not that much different from choosing an email
           | provider.
        
         | shadowgovt wrote:
         | You and a lot of other people. I see this blind spot in the
         | open source community from time to time regarding decision
         | paralysis and I'm surprised that more people don't realize how
         | much of an issue it is for a lot of users.
         | 
         | I don't want to think about what server I'm on. I want the
         | whole thing to just work. The fact that there is only one
         | Twitter and only one Facebook are actually advantages in the
         | marketplace for those services.
        
           | lrvick wrote:
           | Do you get decision paralysis when deciding what home to buy
           | or what apartment to live in?
           | 
           | This is what freedom looks like, vs going to a defacto
           | centralized megacorp and having them tell you where to live
           | so that they can most efficiently manipulate and spy on you
           | for profit.
           | 
           | Everyone has become far too accustomed with exploitative
           | corpos telling them what to do on the internet. Choices are
           | harder, but healthier.
           | 
           | Just make a choice, and you can make a different one later.
        
             | ISL wrote:
             | When you move because you don't like the instance anymore,
             | how do all of your connections follow you?
             | 
             | This, to me, is the central problem in the Fediverse.
        
               | M2Ys4U wrote:
               | > When you move because you don't like the instance
               | anymore, how do all of your connections follow you?
               | 
               | You use the built-in[0] migration feature. Create an
               | account on your new instance, point it at your old one.
               | Then point your old account to your new one.
               | 
               | [0] Built in to Mastodon, anyway. YMMV with other
               | Fediverse software.
        
             | shadowgovt wrote:
             | > Do you get decision paralysis when deciding what home to
             | buy or what apartment to live in?
             | 
             | Yes, of course. That involves a mortgage, location, the
             | logistics of moving...
        
           | josteink wrote:
           | > I don't want to think about what server I'm on.
           | 
           | Maybe I'm the exception but for me almost without exception
           | the answer is that I want to run my own instance.
           | 
           | What's the point of leaving a centralized system for a
           | decentralized one if you still let someone else own your
           | data?
        
             | parminya wrote:
             | People aren't mass-leaving Twitter because Twitter owns
             | their data. They were happy with someone else owning their
             | data to the extent that they were users of Twitter. They're
             | mass-leaving Twitter becomes Elon Musk bought Twitter. Elon
             | Musk cannot buy Mastodon. He might buy your particular
             | server, but the chances he'd try to are much more remote
             | because the benefit of doing so is much less.
        
           | ncr100 wrote:
           | Should just lead with advice "CHOOSE THE FIRST YOU LIKE AND
           | CHANGE IT LATER".
           | 
           | Opine:
           | 
           | The "tell me what to think" motivation is frustrating from
           | multiple perspectives:
           | 
           | - overt bias of the Tellers is rife with unethical potential
           | 
           | - low engagement of the Users is a part of communication,
           | it's reality and why the style of Exciting Content (insert
           | emojis) has become popular in modern communication vs the
           | 'respectably formatted and spell-checked' of yesteryear
        
           | allenu wrote:
           | I've been using Mastodon on and off for a few years now and
           | the thing that bugged me was that the benefits it was pushing
           | at first were absolutely uninteresting to me as a user: it's
           | decentralized and you can pick your server. Those aren't
           | exactly things a general user is going to care about or even
           | understand. They just want to know how to sign up and follow
           | interesting people. The fact that there wasn't any trending
           | (or usable search) for a while made it also feel like a ghost
           | town. You create your new account and look around and think,
           | "Okay, where's the activity?" I suppose it wasn't really
           | meant to be twitter, so my criticisms may not be entirely
           | fair.
        
           | mynameismonkey wrote:
           | Agreed. I've been pasting this anywhere I see the frustration
           | 
           | Think of it like your phone number, it's a service and you
           | need a provider. Choose one by location
           | https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/mastodon-near-me_828094
           | makes no difference, they all talk to each other and you can
           | move servers at any time
           | 
           | And it's curated for servers that are open for registration
           | so hopefully no dead ends
        
             | tekchip wrote:
             | Totally this. Did decision fatigue stop you from using
             | email? It didn't because they all talk. It doesn't really
             | matter which you choose.
             | 
             | This is especially true now that there is an official
             | system to change/move servers.
        
         | phoe-krk wrote:
         | _> How do I find a server that 'matches' me but doesn't make me
         | seem like an over-enthusiastic single-issue or single-hobby
         | dedicant_
         | 
         | Just don't care about it that much, really. My main account has
         | been at https://functional.cafe for years now, but I'm posting
         | about pretty much everything there: programming, music, art,
         | politics, current events, shitposting.
         | 
         |  _> and also isn't run by someone whose (perhaps currently
         | unespoused) views I'd find problematic?_
         | 
         | Ask someone from your friend circle who's already on Fediverse,
         | but also see the above point.
        
           | jrmg wrote:
           | Just don't care about what the first thing people will see
           | that's specifically about me says about me? I don't think I
           | can bring myself to do that.
        
             | flkiwi wrote:
             | Then signing up for a general instance (mastodon.social,
             | mas.to, etc.) makes sense. It's like (as in _exactly_ like)
             | signing up for gmail vs. having a custom domain.
        
               | Joeboy wrote:
               | https://mastodon.social/ isn't allowing new signups,
               | https://mas.to/ is returning a cloudflare error page for
               | me.
        
               | flkiwi wrote:
               | It's an exceptional growth period for the servers.
               | Twitter used to have failwhales, and gmail used to
               | require invitations. It will stabilize. (And, if you
               | happen to be interested and have the skillset, you could
               | deploy your own instance. I wouldn't be surprised if
               | there's already a VPS provider that already has
               | pushbutton mastodon deployment in place.)
        
               | Joeboy wrote:
               | So, it's exactly like signing up for gmail if gmail was
               | down and you had to either wait for them to fix it at
               | some undetermined point in the future, find another email
               | provider or set up your own email server instead.
        
               | mirkules wrote:
               | It's also exactly like when people on the right started
               | leaving twitter and all these alternatives popped up.
               | 
               | And in the end, people (who left willingly) ended up back
               | on twitter anyway just because people kept sharing things
               | from there. But also because the alternative services
               | could not keep up with the momentum, resulting in
               | degraded service. So everyone seemed to collectively go
               | "meh" and returned to twitter.
               | 
               | I predict everyone will be back on twitter once all this
               | blows over, and especially if alternatives can't keep up.
               | Uptime and reliability seem to be more important than
               | features, freedom, or just about anything else.
        
               | ralgozino wrote:
               | > So, it's exactly like signing up for gmail if gmail was
               | down and you had to either wait for them to fix it at
               | some undetermined point in the future, find another email
               | provider or set up your own email server instead.
               | 
               | GMail was invite only for a very long time at the
               | beginning fwiw
        
               | flkiwi wrote:
               | Much of the history of the Internet has been exactly like
               | that. New services (or new-you-you) constantly going down
               | with an influx of new users, services (like email) that
               | allow anyone to set up their own machine ... this mild
               | and temporary inconvenience is familiar. A week from now
               | it will be fine.
               | 
               | But I think that's the important point. Right now,
               | there's nothing wrong with Mastodon. Mastodon is working
               | fine. A couple of servers that people commonly encounter
               | first are having growth issues. But those servers aren't
               | Mastodon any more than Gmail is email.
        
               | ianbutler wrote:
               | > A couple of servers that people commonly encounter
               | first are having growth issues. But those servers aren't
               | Mastodon any more than Gmail is email.
               | 
               | And that's what a lot of tech people don't get, to
               | normies actually Gmail does equal Email and such. You're
               | not going to get the bulk of everyday people on these
               | platforms until you think in their shoes and provide
               | features (and don't have downtime on your main servers)
               | that fit their experiences.
        
               | parminya wrote:
               | > to normies actually Gmail does equal Email and such
               | 
               | I'd love to hear of some evidence for that. I've never
               | encountered anyone assuming that the bit after the @ has
               | to be gmail.com, or being unclear and uncertain if they
               | can communicate between their work Outlook account and
               | their home Gmail account. This feels very much like
               | someone's taken the idea "to most people, the internet
               | just is the web" and run wild with it.
        
               | ianbutler wrote:
               | My point stands Mastodon has a bad UX and no one I know
               | wants to continue to use it. They were all pretty much
               | immediately put off.
        
               | Joeboy wrote:
               | Well, I would say it's a problem that a lot of people are
               | trying to join the fediverse and it's currently quite
               | difficult and confusing to do so.
               | 
               | I would further say there's a marketing problem that
               | Mastodon advocates keep saying this situation is normal,
               | expected and it's working fine, which is obviously quite
               | offputting.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | It is a community project, there isn't a centralized
               | marketing message or anything like that. If the community
               | is growing as fast as their servers can handle it, that
               | seems like a fine situation?
        
               | Joeboy wrote:
               | I sincerely hope it can conquer its current growth and
               | signup issues and the unnecessary reputational damage
               | inflicted by its advocates.
        
               | alwillis wrote:
               | _Twitter used to have failwhales_
               | 
               | I remember the failwhale days, but this is different.
               | 
               | Twitter is a VC-backed company that had the resources to
               | build out their infrastructure.
               | 
               | Mastodon is a bunch of volunteer-run servers and it looks
               | pretty obvious they aren't going to be able to handle the
               | infusion of new users... unless there's an infusion of
               | resources.
               | 
               | I'm on mastodon.social and it has slowed to a crawl,
               | compared to what I was used to 6 months ago.
               | 
               | Also the UI/UX isn't great. Say what you will about
               | Twitter, but they've built a pretty slick web application
               | and native apps. People used to the simplicity of Twitter
               | are going to struggle, if the complaints on my Twitter
               | timeline are any indication.
        
               | neltnerb wrote:
               | There is an infusion of resources. One option that seems
               | common is that users aren't required to contribute
               | towards hosting fees, but donations are easily accepted
               | -- that is how the sustainable ones work from what I have
               | seen. It seems to work pretty well?
               | 
               | It's very transparent, which I like -- "we got a bunch of
               | new users, the server bill is going up $2k a month
               | overall so if you can pitch in please do" is extremely
               | clear and seems to work effectively. An individual server
               | seems like it should be able to charge for hosting your
               | account like with email if it needed to be operated like
               | a business.
               | 
               | So far it doesn't really seem like it needs to operate
               | like a business, it just takes longer for collectives of
               | humans to respond to changes in needs than a giant
               | enormously wealthy company that knew what would happen in
               | advance. I'm sure it will equilibrate, it has the last
               | two times this happened.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Mastohost offers fully-provisioned Mastodon hosting
               | service:
               | 
               | <https://masto.host/>
               | 
               | Edit: And a few minutes after posting this, a wiki link
               | showed up in my Masto stream with numerous suggestions
               | and tips:
               | 
               | <https://joinfediverse.wiki/How_to_host_your_own_Fedivers
               | e_in...>
        
               | phoe-krk wrote:
               | This problem is literally solved by OP. Search https://in
               | stances.social/list#lang=&allowed=&prohibited=&min... for
               | the whole list of instances accepting signups, choose the
               | most generic-sounding name, check it out, register there.
        
               | Joeboy wrote:
               | Did you see the list? Finding a "generic" instance that's
               | open to signups honestly isn't easy, right now. I ended
               | up on fosstodon.org, which is not as generic as I'd like
               | but seemed like the least terrible option I could find in
               | half an hour.
        
               | jrmg wrote:
               | How do I ensure I'm not picking one that won't, now or in
               | a few days or weeks or months end up being associated
               | with views I find problematic?
               | 
               | What I'm worried about is my reputation - what the server
               | I'm associated with tells others about me (the argument
               | that those others are wrong in making assumptions doesn't
               | comfort me).
               | 
               | These hazards are probably very unlikely, of course, but
               | the alternative of 'how about I just avoid all these
               | hazards' is the one my lizard brain is picking.
        
               | andocars wrote:
               | Dude who cares. Unless youre like a popular figure or
               | something whose going to go through the list of users and
               | be like oh this particular user happens to be signed up
               | to this site along with tens of thousands of other users
               | but Im gonna find this person and trash talk them
        
               | jrnichols wrote:
               | what's more likely to happen is that the instance will go
               | offline for some reason and never come back. We had this
               | happen with an adult material related instance. It became
               | brigaded by another crew who flooded it with very illegal
               | material. The users were helpless to do anything but
               | report it, and soon the whole instance was gone.
               | 
               | It was a very unfortunate and frightening view into what
               | can quickly happen with the fediverse.
        
               | etrautmann wrote:
               | I think you're worrying too much about this particular
               | point. If it becomes noxious, migrate later.
        
               | lrvick wrote:
               | The same thing was true of Twitter which is why so many
               | are leaving.
               | 
               | Unlike Twitter, you can leave a Mastodon server for
               | another one and take your follows and followers with you.
               | 
               | If you want assurances that a server owner will never act
               | against your will, you need to take the same action you
               | would to mitigate a landlord acting against your will.
               | Buy your own place.
               | 
               | In a decentralized universe you have to start thinking of
               | servers as real estate. Nothing is free but if your goal
               | is to get to share with you what they paid for for free,
               | you take what you can get. Or buy your own server for
               | only yourself, or share with others.
               | 
               | This is what the world looks like without tracking and
               | advertizing trying to make everything seem free.
        
             | kixiQu wrote:
             | FWIW, most of us don't pay that much attention to it unless
             | it's an instance with a very good or bad reputation, and
             | even then, new users aren't really presumed to know what
             | they signed up for.
        
             | BryantD wrote:
             | This is not at all obvious, but it's fairly easy to move
             | your Mastodon account and leave a forwarding notice behind:
             | https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/moving/
        
           | Kiro wrote:
           | If this is the best response hardcore fans of Mastodon can
           | come up with, I don't have much hope.
        
         | Joeboy wrote:
         | You actually can't sign up on mastodon.social at the moment. I
         | thought the same, all the instances are for weirdly specific
         | groups I'm not in. You don't have this problem with email,
         | there's no requirement to choose an email address that matches
         | your political tendencies, sexual kinks etc.
         | 
         | I eventually chose fosstodon.org which seems like about the
         | most vanilla thing that's open to new users and where I have a
         | decent claim to being the right kind of person. I suspect a lot
         | of people will look at the long list of furry-centric instances
         | and conclude Mastodon is not for them. IDK, maybe that's
         | considered a feature.
        
           | berkes wrote:
           | But it really is the same with mastodon. You don't need to
           | find an instance that matches your political tendencies,
           | furry niche, or whatever.
           | 
           | Just pick one that feels right. Maybe you are French or
           | Korean and like a server in French or Korean, or maybe you
           | feel very strong about politics: the make that a parameter.
           | Otherwise just go for any "general" server.
           | 
           | Just like with email, people will generally just pick
           | Hotmail, AOL, xs4all.nl, yahoo or email, without much
           | thought. This is fine.
           | 
           | You can easily move later if you ever find a community that
           | you wish to be part of.
        
             | Joeboy wrote:
             | > Otherwise just go for any "general" server
             | 
             | That's exactly what I tried, and failed, to do. As far as I
             | was able to discover, including via the site being
             | discussed here, there are no such servers currently
             | available for new signups.
        
               | berkes wrote:
               | I'm sorry to hear that. The influx is big currently. Many
               | servers can barely handle all the signups and extra load.
               | 
               | So this is temporary, and certainly not a fundamental
               | issue.
        
               | Joeboy wrote:
               | Thank you! This is a much, much better response than the
               | denialism I'm seeing in other replies.
        
               | olliej wrote:
               | I'm not convinced that this is a temporary issue - the
               | mastodon servers seem to require relatively high upkeep
               | (cost, cpu, and manual time) for relatively few users,
               | which naturally leads to instances reducing/blocking new
               | accounts and even just shutting down, which further
               | exacerbates the load on other instances.
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | You're overthinking it. Find an instance that seems friendly
         | and sign up. If it turns out you don't like it there, you can
         | migrate to another one; barring defederation issues, everyone
         | who is following you on the old instance will follow you on the
         | new one automatically. Unfortunately the list of people that
         | you follow isn't automatically migrated, but some front ends
         | reduce the pain of this by letting you export a list of follow-
         | ees on the old instance and then import it on the new one.
         | 
         | Just do it!
        
           | mabcat wrote:
           | That's such a strange piece of UX. As a typical user, who on
           | average consumes content rather than produces it, what I care
           | about is that my list of followed accounts migrates with me
           | so that my feed stays relatively consistent. As a content
           | producer I would also care about my past posts migrating with
           | me, which they don't. Having followers continue to follow me
           | after migration is only the primary concern for the
           | "influencer". I get that "my friends can still find me" is an
           | important feature but who thought it was ok to skip the other
           | two?
        
             | kixiQu wrote:
             | Followed accounts are easier to do manually; there's a
             | simple export / import interface that existed before the
             | account move feature.
             | 
             | I will note that for you "as a content producer" the
             | uniformly reverse chronological presentation on Mastodon
             | highly penalizes older posts (even a day old!) to an extent
             | that is pretty rough to get used to, and that makes those
             | older posts pretty irrelevant to move over. This is much
             | like Twitter before its engagement-maximization algorithm
             | days, though.
        
         | olah_1 wrote:
         | I just want a public key. You can name me what you want or I
         | can buy an easy-to-read username and renew it like a domain.
        
           | lrvick wrote:
           | You have the choice to have any username you want on a domain
           | you own.
        
             | olah_1 wrote:
             | *if you know how to manage and maintain a server
        
         | GartzenDeHaes wrote:
         | You also can't:
         | 
         | - move your account to a different server
         | 
         | - use your account as a sign-on for other ActivityPub based
         | services
         | 
         | - easily discover content that your server doesn't already know
         | about
        
           | M2Ys4U wrote:
           | Your first point is wrong, you definitely can move your
           | account to a new instance and take your followers with you.
        
             | kixiQu wrote:
             | https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/moving/#move The docs,
             | for anyone wondering.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | It doesn't matter ... _too_ much.
         | 
         | I've been on Mastodon since 2016. I've switched instances
         | twice, once when the instance was shut down (the maintainer
         | gave several months' notice), once when instance ownership
         | changed.
         | 
         | The first time was early enough that profile migration didn't
         | exist ... and it still wasn't much of a deal. I follow a few
         | hundred profiles, and am followed by about 2,000. It turns out
         | that it's pretty easy to re-associate, at least for
         | individuals. (Commercial / brand profiles with large
         | follow/follower lists would have a different experience.) We
         | reconnected pretty easily.
         | 
         | The more recent switch used profile migration. This brings
         | along your followers / following lists, as well as block and
         | mute lists, and is straightforward. _Toots_ are not migrated,
         | but for the most part Mastodon  "lives in the present", and the
         | back-catalogue isn't particularly significant. (I care more
         | about this than most, and ... it's still not that big a deal.)
         | 
         | I actually have several active profiles, though all are
         | forwarded to my primary active one:
         | <https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius>. Again, if I need to fallback
         | to another instance, I can.
         | 
         | Larger instances tend to be fairly anodyne. Smaller instances
         | tend to fit niches, of both specific interests and policies.
         | Pick something that looks reasonable. If you decide you want to
         | change at a later date, it's not a big deal.
        
         | socialismisok wrote:
         | This is 100% why I haven't signed up yet. It's like walking
         | into a blockbuster video and being told, "you can pick one
         | movie from this store, but everyone will know which movie you
         | pick, and the director of that movie will be able to control
         | what other movies you get to see."
         | 
         | The analysis paralysis this induces is _incredible_.
        
           | josteink wrote:
           | > and the director of that movie will be able to control what
           | other movies you get to see
           | 
           | That's not true though, is it?
           | 
           | Aren't you able to consume content from anywhere else in the
           | fediverse?
        
             | flkiwi wrote:
             | You can unless an admin specifically blocks another
             | instance. It doesn't seem to be that common in practice
             | (other than blocking the content that you'd expect to be
             | blocked or, IIRC, a handful of servers that effectively de-
             | federate).
        
           | lrvick wrote:
           | It is more like you previously could -only- obtain movies
           | from Blockbuster and you loved that they recommended
           | sponsored movies whenever you visited. You did not have to
           | think.
           | 
           | Now Blockbuster is gone and there are a pile of other ways to
           | obtain movies out there and you are complaining that choosing
           | one is hard. It is entertainment and they all have access to
           | the same movies so it is not that important of a choice.
        
       | Kiro wrote:
       | This is the reason Mastodon will never fly.
        
         | yogthos wrote:
         | Yup, just like email never took off because people have a
         | selection of mail server providers to choose from.
        
           | Karunamon wrote:
           | Most internet users were given an email address with their
           | service, for free, with no setup, care, feeding, or even a
           | single iota of further thought required. If sending and
           | receiving email back then required as much screwing around
           | then as setting up Mastodon does today, do you think it would
           | be as ubiquitous?
        
       | someNameIG wrote:
       | Having the ability to teach for servers that allow illegal
       | content is a really big put off.
        
       | hobo_mark wrote:
       | Since it's supposedly 'decentralized', and this is HN, what are
       | the downsides to just hosting a private ActivityPub instance and
       | following people from there? Plus my account would not be tied to
       | someone else's instance (since I can take my domain and vps with
       | me).
        
         | blep_ wrote:
         | I do this, and more people should. People on huge multi-user
         | instances are completely missing the point of federation.
         | 
         | The downsides are the usual sysadmin stuff that comes with
         | running servers for anything. People also get excited about the
         | instance-local timelines on multi-user instances, but again,
         | that's completely missing the point.
        
         | jrnichols wrote:
         | yes, you can most certainly do that.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | Yes (apart from the instances which operate on a whitelist
         | basis for federation)
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | You can and should do this, if you have the time and energy to
         | do so.
        
         | M2Ys4U wrote:
         | I've run my own single-user instance since 2018 - the biggest
         | downside is discoverability and community.
         | 
         | Discoverability: With other users on the instance the federated
         | timeline is populated by posts from users that others on your
         | instance follow, so you have to follow people a bit more
         | liberally to discover other posts.
         | 
         | Community: Instances also have a local timeline, which shows
         | posts from others on the instance and this gives each one a
         | slightly different vibe. With a single-user instance it's just
         | your posts!
         | 
         | But either way, you can still interact with pretty much anybody
         | else in the Fediverse, and once you're followed by a couple of
         | people your posts will go out to the federated timelines of
         | other instances and you'll get interactions via that.
        
       | ssdown wrote:
        
       | linsomniac wrote:
       | Another option: Sign up at masto.host for $6/mo and run your own
       | instance, they rate that as good for up to 5 active users, so you
       | could even invite some family or friends. I almost went that
       | route, but someone I knew did that and invited me to join theirs.
       | Review: It has been speedy.
       | 
       | https://masto.host/
        
         | mdaEyebot wrote:
         | Is it really too much to ask for people to host their own
         | content on a cheap VPS?
         | 
         | Wouldn't that neatly solve the content moderation problem? You
         | register your server on an index or two, and you choose what
         | your server will publish and accept. Each user would be
         | responsible for finding a hosting provider who doesn't have a
         | problem with what you post, and problematic content reports
         | would go right to the hosting providers. The indexers could
         | basically be DNS for usernames.
         | 
         | The AWS free tier would cover 99% of people, and between VNC
         | and web UIs, you wouldn't necessarily need them to ever touch a
         | shell. Plus, requiring a reasonably consistent public IP
         | address would help to cut down on bulk spam.
        
           | mabcat wrote:
           | For sure it's too much to ask.
           | 
           | Get started on Twitter: 1. go to twitter.com 2. enter your
           | name and phone number
           | 
           | Get started on Pleroma: https://docs.pleroma.social/backend/i
           | nstallation/debian_base...
           | 
           | Get started on Mastodon:
           | https://docs.joinmastodon.org/admin/install/ [page 1 of 12]
           | 
           | For the full effect, do the install with an iPhone.
        
           | kixiQu wrote:
           | https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
           | 
           | Almost a third of American adults can't achieve computer
           | tasks comparable in difficulty to "delete an email message."
           | Only about a third can manage tasks comparable to: "You want
           | to find a sustainability-related document that was sent to
           | you by John Smith in October last year."
        
         | mabcat wrote:
         | masto.host was an option yesterday, now it looks like it won't
         | be an option for the next few days.
         | 
         | I was about to install self-hosted Mastodon but the machine
         | load and amount of admin chores seemed too high. I've installed
         | self-hosted Pleroma instead. Pleroma has 2% the DAU count of
         | Mastodon, I'm starting to wonder if I'm missing out on the main
         | experience, but I also don't want the main experience to be
         | "server administration".
        
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