[HN Gopher] Open Source Firebase Alternative with GraphQL
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       Open Source Firebase Alternative with GraphQL
        
       Author : jonifico
       Score  : 124 points
       Date   : 2022-11-03 10:48 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nhost.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nhost.io)
        
       | maxloh wrote:
       | If I understand it correctly, Nhost depends on S3.
       | 
       | So Nhost is either not vendor-neutral, or must be used alongside
       | with AGPL S3 implementations.
        
         | elitan wrote:
         | Storage is using S3. We use AWS S3 at Nhost, but you can use
         | Minio (open source) if you self-host.
         | 
         | But the good thing with Nhost is that it's open source, so if
         | you want to implement something other than S3 as the core
         | storage layer, you can do so: https://github.com/nhost/hasura-
         | storage
        
       | ushakov wrote:
       | why hasura instead of postgraphile?
        
         | cpursley wrote:
         | Postgraphile is built out of wet noodles (JavaScript) and
         | Hasura is Haskell. That's enough for me. JavaScript doesn't
         | belong on the backend.
        
         | gavinray wrote:
         | Great way to invite a mud-slinging contest ;^)
         | 
         | Evaluate them both, use whichever fits your usecase/you like
         | best.
        
           | damidekronik wrote:
           | Definitely should evaluate both. Still curious about nhost's
           | perspective.
        
       | WolfOliver wrote:
       | looks more like a Hasura distribution than a distinct tool?
        
         | elitan wrote:
         | Nhost CEO here.
         | 
         | Hasura GraphQL Engine is one of the open source tools we're
         | using for the Nhost stack. But it's "only" one of the open
         | source technologies we're using.
         | 
         | Others are:
         | 
         | - Postgres. Who doesn't love Postgres?
         | 
         | - Hasura Auth: https://github.com/nhost/hasura-auth
         | 
         | - Hasura Storage: http://github.com/nhost/hasura-storage
         | 
         | - Serverless Functions (Node.js)
         | 
         | On top of that we have SKDs in JS/TS/React/Next.js/Vue.
         | 
         | And a CLI for local development and a GitHub integration so you
         | can deploy your backend just like you deploy your frontend with
         | Netlify and Vercel.
         | 
         | Hope that clarifies a bit.
        
           | kaspermarstal wrote:
           | Can you tell who develops Hasura Auth and Hasura Storage?
           | You? Or did you fork it and extend it?
        
             | AccountAccount1 wrote:
             | Both developed in-house from Nhost' engineers and OSS
             | https://github.com/nhost/hasura-storage
             | https://github.com/nhost/hasura-auth
             | 
             | built to leverage Hasura's features and driven by users
             | needs
        
             | elitan wrote:
             | Both are built by us, yes.
             | 
             | Hasura Auth has 1M+ pulls on Docker Hub and we have JS SDKs
             | for both Auth and Storage.
             | 
             | Code: https://github.com/nhost/nhost/tree/main/packages
             | 
             | Docs: https://docs.nhost.io/reference/javascript
        
           | ushakov wrote:
           | why would i use this instead of just paying Hasura?
           | 
           | in other words: what's your moat?
        
             | spion wrote:
             | Just paying Hasura gets you just Hasura (at least before
             | Neon it used to)
             | 
             | NHost gets you Hasura, the underlying postgres db, pre-
             | configured auth with JWTs, blob storage, functions and a
             | client-side library to get all of that working together
             | with nearly zero configuration.
             | 
             | edit: also, Hasura's cheapest offering ($100 / month) is
             | still prohibitively expensive for indie projects (That's
             | just Hasura - you would have to add database costs, auth
             | costs and blob storage costs to that $100).
        
               | AccountAccount1 wrote:
               | Just to add to the comment: you also have backups,
               | automatic logs on all services, raw access to postgres
               | (you can do whatever you want with it), custom
               | integration with stripe, plus specific dashboard for
               | users, database, and storage.
               | 
               | It's freaking crazy
        
             | elitan wrote:
             | Here's an image that illustrate it well:
             | https://i.imgur.com/5Zn8tfS.png (from our website).
             | 
             | We also provide SDKs in JS, TS, React, Next.js, and Vue:
             | https://docs.nhost.io/reference/javascript
        
       | danielvaughn wrote:
       | Looks interesting, though I'd hesitate to tie my infra to GraphQL
       | out of the box. Unless I'm mistaken
        
         | eurasiantiger wrote:
         | If you don't care for object-level caching, you can always
         | query a GraphQL endpont with just a simple HTTP client.
        
         | AccountAccount1 wrote:
         | Most of the users I've seen using Nhost (and Hasura) treat
         | data/the db as the source. Given that you have raw access to
         | postgres, you are also the full owner of your data and you can
         | swap interfaces as you see fit (I've seen users use Hasura
         | internally and not expose it to the internet)
         | 
         | Notice, also, that Hasura has support for REST endpoints.
        
           | danielvaughn wrote:
           | Ah nice, didn't catch that thanks. As long as it's an option
           | lol.
        
       | qorrect wrote:
       | I _just_ started using Firebase and I'm already worried about
       | cost. Is this a drop in replacement for it ? All my code will
       | work against nhost , just change the config files ? Or what does
       | the transition look like at the moment ?
       | 
       | Very excited for this!
        
         | nunopato wrote:
         | Better to migrate to something open-source without vendor lock-
         | in while small. If you need any help to understand what would
         | be needed, feel free to email me at nuno@nhost.io.
        
       | adlpz wrote:
       | How does this compare to Supabase? Is this easily self hostable?
       | I'm seeing lots of movement in this space and it's getting harder
       | to keep track.
        
         | callmeal wrote:
         | It looks like it's self-hostable using docker, so a no-go for
         | me.
        
           | nine_k wrote:
           | Why so? If you are opposed to Docker, there are containerd
           | and podman.
        
             | georgyo wrote:
             | If I had to guess, they are not adverse to "Docker" the
             | company but actually to immutable container images that are
             | shipped from the developer and often assume that they can
             | run as root.
        
           | wazzaps wrote:
           | Why not extract the Docker image then (just a .tar.gz) and
           | run it "raw"?
        
       | tluyben2 wrote:
       | Was it tested, by chance, to run with Cockroachdb or Yugabytedb?
       | We are migrating off non distributed solutions and the Postgres
       | native solutions we tried just weren't easy to set up and use,
       | while the two newcomers are. Any advise in that direction? We are
       | using Yugabyte mostly now for testing if everything works and if
       | it's robust; so far it works very well -> we were very happy with
       | Cockroach, but not with the license.
        
         | tango12 wrote:
         | Hasura CEO here. If you're trying or evaluating using hasura
         | (or nhost) along with Yugabyte / Cockroach feel free to reach
         | out (email in bio). Happy to have our team help with any
         | architecture or benchmarking things you might run into!
        
           | nunopato wrote:
           | Same here. Drop me a line at nuno@nhost.io if you need any
           | help.
        
       | marktangotango wrote:
       | It's interesting see people still working in this niche, I think
       | it used to be called "backend as a service"? There were several
       | contenders at one point, but Firebase seemed to "win" several
       | years ago, and has been the last one standing for some time.
       | 
       | Just curious what the market size is for these types of services?
       | It doesn't seem like anyone really uses them; for tech people
       | it's just as easy to spin up an instance in some cloud somewhere.
       | For non technical people, well these types of services still seem
       | to be too complex.
       | 
       | I think the one thing Firebase has going for it, that is a
       | differentiator is it's mobile push service that pushes to both
       | iOS and Android. There aren't many options there.
        
         | elitan wrote:
         | Yea Nhost is a Backend as a Service (BaaS) but I'm not sure
         | Firebase has "won".
         | 
         | Whant we hear form our users is that they like Nhost because
         | of:
         | 
         | - Open Source
         | 
         | - SQL (Postgres)
         | 
         | - GraphQL (Hasura)
         | 
         | - GitHub Integratoin (like Vercel & Netlify)
         | 
         | > for tech people it's just as easy to spin up an instance in
         | some cloud somewhere.
         | 
         | I think this is the biggest missconseption.
         | 
         | Just look at Vercel and Netlify. They host html/css/js as a
         | core business and they have million of users combined. Why?
         | Because they make it extreamly easy for developers to be
         | *productive* and they hook into developers' workflow with Git.
         | 
         | Most of our users at Nhost can spin up servers and
         | infrastructure on their own, but are they using their time
         | optimally by doing so? Or should they instead spend time
         | building what's important for their business and users?
        
           | ramesh31 wrote:
           | >Yea Nhost is a Backend as a Service (BaaS) but I'm not sure
           | Firebase has "won".
           | 
           | Firebase is a nightmare since they folded it into GCP. As a
           | standalone product it was complete, easy to grok, and simple
           | to secure. Now I feel like I literally need to hire a CISSP
           | to make sure my whole company wont be hosed by a single
           | security rule misconfiguration buried somewhere in GCP.
        
         | Bilal_io wrote:
         | Perhaps Forebase was the first one to do it right, the biggest
         | features were Real-Time and as you've mentioned, Push
         | notifications. Everyone else has been attempting to compete.
         | The big win for us is that many of these solutions are open
         | source. Shout-out to Supabase and shout-out to Postgresql which
         | allows for this to be possible.
        
         | ehnto wrote:
         | Firebase at it's core is just Google Cloud, same with AWS
         | Amplify just being various AWS services neatly delivered. I
         | imagine some people are using the exact same services just
         | through Google Cloud and AWS. Cloud Messaging == SNS, Lambda ==
         | Cloud Functions, Firestore == DynamoDB etc.
         | 
         | I think you might be underestimating their reach though,
         | they're very popular in app development shops, since an app
         | developer doesn't need to know how to build a serverside
         | application in order to get an app that needs remote services
         | working.
        
         | kubota wrote:
         | AWS now has a firebase copy-cat, Amplify. I thought Parse was
         | still being maintained by the community. Appwrite is another
         | offering in the space.
        
           | nunopato wrote:
           | The mobile push service is indeed a great feature from
           | Firebase, which we will also implement when possible. We
           | already provide a realtime API through GraphQL subscriptions.
        
         | leros wrote:
         | Firebase is a great solution but...
         | 
         | It's closed source and locks you into Google Cloud.
         | 
         | You can't self host. And since it's pay for use, you can end up
         | with large unexpected bills for a variety of reasons.
         | 
         | It doesn't have full text search.
         | 
         | It doesn't have a relational database.
         | 
         | I'm sure there are more things. Firebase is awesome but it's
         | definitely not the ultimate solution.
        
         | teg4n_ wrote:
         | I'm primarily a frontend developer. The task i hate most is
         | dev-ops like stuff and dealing with Aws in any capacity. If i
         | was to create a start up I would 100% use something like this
         | or Supabase.
        
           | nunopato wrote:
           | Let us know if you need any help getting started!
           | nuno@nhost.io
        
         | cpursley wrote:
         | We're using Hasura in production and I'm a backend developer.
         | Saves a lot of time from building out CRUD GraphQL and enforces
         | a consistent API.
        
           | nunopato wrote:
           | Hasura is awesome!
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-03 23:02 UTC)