[HN Gopher] Universal Paperclips
___________________________________________________________________
Universal Paperclips
Author : FPGAhacker
Score : 280 points
Date : 2022-11-03 02:23 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.decisionproblem.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.decisionproblem.com)
| axiolite wrote:
| And here's the solution:
|
| https://marclitchfield.github.io/paperclips-auto/
| mr_ploppy wrote:
| After 30 minutes I managed to close the browser. I feel like I
| danced with the devil, but then managed to run out and get in an
| Uber while they were in the bathroom.
| ncr100 wrote:
| There's an app version if that floats your boat...
| literalAardvark wrote:
| If you've never played it, it's worth finishing once for the
| "story" and takes less than 10 hours if you grok exponential
| growth quick enough.
| throw2500 wrote:
| Does it have a branch where you hack your own utility
| function and gain +infinity utility?
| bena wrote:
| There's an optimal path that can get you to the end in 3 to 4
| hours.
|
| Really, it's about getting to space then being able to
| configure your drones to survive fights and explore.
| Damogran6 wrote:
| How many playthroughs did it take for you to find this?
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| One is enough.
|
| Though technically it was too, I accidentally restarted
| the first through the in-game restart modes.
|
| Second one I just blatantly gave myself enough money to
| get to the monstrous amounts of clippers so it takes only
| minutes to proceed to the second part.
|
| But it's worth to see the both endings.
| somat wrote:
| I can't help but cheat in this game, the source is there, in well
| written javascript, after a while, I go, "well I will just get
| over this next hump and give myself a few dozen dingleberrys(or
| whatever resource is next in the techtree)", after all the only
| person I am hurting is myself... And it is a clicker game... The
| lowest and most insidious form of gaming.
|
| Honestly at this point I see it as a feature.
| iNic wrote:
| What I love is that this exact behavior is one of the minor
| problems of advanced AI. How can we make sure that a
| sufficiently advanced AI doesn't just edit it's reward center?
| Usually called wire-heading or reward hacking. Humans do it too
| :)
| mellavora wrote:
| Isn't that what the cocaine is for?
| redox99 wrote:
| That's basically just a matter of the inputs and outputs of
| the AI.
| iNic wrote:
| If the AI has sufficient "real life" access, think a robot
| body, then it can do wire-heading. Assuming it is smarter
| than us, and we have thought of this idea - it will also
| think of this idea. Now it doesn't have a reason anymore to
| do anything else (except maybe kill all humans so that we
| don't stop it from wire-heading).
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| Not necessarily; the AI could figure out how to change the
| world - without achieving the task - such that the RF is
| maximized.
| manholio wrote:
| Like in the NI case, it's conceivable that only the most
| rudimentary artificial intellects will fall pray to this
| self hacking.
|
| Trully intelligent agents will be capable of
| introspection and self-defined goals and rewards. You
| know, just like a certain species of ape, hard wired for
| banana maximization, the descendants of which sometimes
| dream of visiting Mars.
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| And yet said species is notoriously known for its
| inability to make long term plans, is easily controlled
| by its own libido and dopamine circuits.
|
| Actually, if we are being honest with ourselves, that ape
| is constantly falling prey to its own capacity to adjust
| its goals. Take for example the issues that come with
| porn addiction; the issues are a consequence of dopamine
| seeking behaviour where the person keeps seeking more and
| more extreme ways to satisfy their urges; ie hedonistic
| adaptation.
|
| Even what you mentioned, dreaming of visiting mars is to
| some degree a goal motivated and mediated by dopaminergic
| circuits; novelty, exploration - like sex - feed dopamine
| circuits.
|
| I can recommend the book "The molecule of more".
|
| Introspection is very limited and can be even motivated
| by the circuits themselves; the person can only achieve
| an outline of their actions to change their software, but
| can't inspect and manipulate individual synapses. In the
| same vein, a software can not inspect itself and predict
| its own outputs and modify them at runtime etc etc.
| vanderZwan wrote:
| > _after all the only person I am hurting is myself... And it
| is a clicker game..._
|
| I would argue the "hurting" part of that first sentence is
| being compelled to spend hours playing a clicker game that you
| would have liked to spend elsewhere.
|
| At least that's how clicker games work for me: I don't even
| enjoy my time playing them, they just _hook_ me against the
| wishes of 99% of my brain activity (but apparently not the 1%
| of my brain that decides where I spend my time)
| pessimizer wrote:
| The funny thing about Cookie Clicker (not UP) is that getting
| over the next hump doesn't change the game at all. A few words
| change, a few colors change, an old meter fills more often, but
| a new meter appears. You're not even hurting yourself.
| metafunctor wrote:
| That's how I ascended in NetHack the first time -- reading the
| source code. There were quite a few things there that I don't
| think I would've ever discovered otherwise.
| residualmind wrote:
| > Investment engine upgraded, expected profit/loss ratio now
| 0.5800000000000001|
|
| Wonderful!
| acutesoftware wrote:
| Oh that's just great - I was planning to muck about with some odd
| coding tonight, but I guess I'll be playing this (awesome) game
| again.
| gwbrooks wrote:
| Give me a laptop with Universal Paperclips and No Man's Sky?
|
| There's not enough Diet Coke in the world to fuel the time I'd
| waste.
| kregasaurusrex wrote:
| This game provides more satisfaction than solving a difficult
| coding contest problem. Some may treat it as a time sink; I see
| it as an allegory for our species as a whole. Is this the logical
| conclusion for humanity? To make paperclips?
| nirse wrote:
| Nooooo! Can anyone remove this post? I can't stand another round
| of paperclip addiction!!!!! HEEEEEEELP!!!
| LoveMortuus wrote:
| Wow! This game is amazing, It'll suck your time away though~
| arc-in-space wrote:
| Oh, god, not again, I was intending to do work today.
| simonh wrote:
| It could be worse, you could have just lost The Game.
|
| ...oops!
| motohagiography wrote:
| HN needs Universal Paperclips to convince us that reading or
| commenting here most days for years on end is a better use of our
| lives. It's simulations all the way down.
| uni_baconcat wrote:
| Like this kind of game.
| amelius wrote:
| Has anyone attempted yet to run a reinforcement learning strategy
| on it?
| ubermonkey wrote:
| YOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW
| agubelu wrote:
| Another productivity black hole: Antimatter Dimensions
|
| https://ivark.github.io/
| xnorswap wrote:
| Also available as an android app (tweaked with arguably better
| pacing in the early game).
|
| I started around a week ago, it's definitely one of the better
| incremental games out there right now.
| agubelu wrote:
| It's personally my favorite incremental game. And the Android
| app is even more dangerous, because you can procrastinate
| anytime, anywhere (plus the interface is arguably better than
| the web app)
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| That's a great little idle game. There's some real challenges
| that are tricky to complete and it doesn't penalise you for not
| keeping it running - you can just leave it churning away and
| return to it later. My one complaint is that the "Studies" has
| a "To be continued" button at the bottom, but it hasn't been
| yet.
| jayknight wrote:
| I can finish UP in a day if I really lean into it. This one
| takes weeks to get through, and I've done it multiple times.
| w-ll wrote:
| It just says
|
| "Paperclips: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0
| 00,000,000,000,000,000"
|
| What does that even mean?
| paulannesley wrote:
| Probably means that you played and completed it some time ago,
| and the state is still in your browser's Local Storage. (Mine
| was too)
| w-ll wrote:
| The atoms in my brain must have been recycled into paperclips
| Aaron2222 wrote:
| It means a lot of paperclips (about 20% the mass of the
| observable universe by my calculations, assuming 1 gram per
| paperclip and using Wikipedia's definition of 1.5e53 kg for the
| observable universe).
| literalAardvark wrote:
| Yeah it means he won the game. Sadly your post is a major
| spoiler for those new to this wonderful game.
| tommica wrote:
| I'm new to this game and I have no idea what this means -
| so I guess I avoided the spoiler...
| Lio wrote:
| Is this related to John Sterman's Beer Game?
|
| i.e. Supply/demand chain modelling?
|
| https://mitsloan.mit.edu/teaching-resources-library/mit-sloa...
| [deleted]
| MVorlm wrote:
| It still doesn't save state between reloads or prevent
| accidentally page refreshes and that makes me sad(still)
| gonzo41 wrote:
| What a wonderfully fun and dangerous thing to find during the
| workday.
| pietroppeter wrote:
| a recent podcast on the game: https://caneandrinse.com/universal-
| paperclips/
|
| endorsed by game author:
| https://twitter.com/flantz/status/1581736112925511680?s=20&t...
|
| and an older article with the story behind the game:
| https://www.wired.com/story/the-way-the-world-ends-not-with-...
| dxuh wrote:
| This did indeed consume my day whole, but it was amazing. This is
| one of the best games I have ever played. The shift in scale is
| funny and shocking and it's a nice way to experience principles
| like supply and demand. Its great at transitioning between
| different games that all kind of have something to do with
| paperclips, but are essentially different, though in the same
| genre. And it does it with almost unstyled buttons and text and
| not much more. I'll buy a shirt!
| windock wrote:
| I just finished it too. It was really an unproductive but happy
| day.
| J_tt wrote:
| I just lost 4 engineers (including myself) a whole afternoon of
| work to this :(
| TheLocehiliosan wrote:
| Nope. You will not suck me back in. Not today!
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| Maybe you could just leave it in another window...
| justusthane wrote:
| Haha I know, I had to hurriedly close the tab as soon as I saw
| the paperclip box.
| checkyoursudo wrote:
| One thing I enjoyed was to write some automation to play UP. That
| became another game for me in its own right.
| codeflo wrote:
| I hope you realized the irony.
| shaunkoh wrote:
| Oh that sounds even more fun. How did you do it? Would love to
| play around with it!
| rpigab wrote:
| Looks fun, but I'm too lazy to not open the js console and type:
| clipClick(100)
| bmacho wrote:
| Tab crashed when quantum something option appeared. Never again.
| 7373737373 wrote:
| It's a very interesting optimization problem to try to beat such
| games in the least time possible.
|
| I once created a much simpler/discrete/deterministic simulation
| (https://qewasd.com/) and someone showed me how to solve it
| optimally with a linear MILP solver. I have no idea what kind of
| modeling and optimization approach would be suitable for _this_.
| willemlabu wrote:
| This reminds me of another excellent time sink game:
| http://clickingbad.nullism.com/
| krater23 wrote:
| Please! Not again!
|
| ....too late...
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _Universal Paperclips_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29496595 - Dec 2021 (82
| comments)
|
| _Universal Paperclips - play the role of an AI programmed to
| produce paperclips_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27121348 - May 2021 (2
| comments)
|
| _Universal Paperclips_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26524117 - March 2021 (1
| comment)
|
| _A filmmaker thinks he can turn Universal Paperclips into a
| movie (2019)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24405682 -
| Sept 2020 (2 comments)
|
| _Universal Paperclips_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24389655 - Sept 2020 (84
| comments)
|
| _Universal Paperclips_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22394560 - Feb 2020 (1
| comment)
|
| _The Unexpected Philosophical Depths of the Clicker Game
| Universal Paperclips_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19513089 - March 2019 (52
| comments)
|
| _Universal Paperclips - A Paperclip Production Simulator_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15439569 - Oct 2017 (3
| comments)
| Mathnerd314 wrote:
| Seems like it gets popular about once a year.
| LoganDark wrote:
| This game reminds me of Candy Box! https://candies.aniwey.net/
| and https://candybox2.github.io/
| nigerianbrince wrote:
| Ah shit, here we go again.
| bvrmn wrote:
| Wow. 4 hours of my life have disappeared.
| NKosmatos wrote:
| A warning to fellow HNers that are not familiar with universal
| paperclips. Please don't click the link as it will create a black
| time hole that will start absorbing your time and reduce your
| productivity.
|
| Be warned that this isn't a naive lazy clicker game, it's an
| instrument of destruction from the future, created by our
| paperclip overlords :-)
| Keyframe wrote:
| You might be reading these comments and going like - huh, seems
| a lot of people agreeing, now I HAVE TO SEE IT.
|
| Don't. You have been warned.
| robofanatic wrote:
| And your comment reinforced his thought. Now I HAVE to see
| what it is.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I lost about a week to it the first time. It was worth it.
|
| Never has a game made its point so well as universal
| paperclips.
| Damogran6 wrote:
| I've seen it, and it didn't grab me. I think I'm a special
| kind of stupid. Whew.
| robotguy wrote:
| Reminds me of a term I came up with years ago: Engineer
| Critical Mass. As soon as you get X or more engineers
| standing around looking at something, you will start
| increasingly attracting more engineers at a rate proportional
| to the current size of the group. Kind of like a lower level
| "stiction" for inquisitive gravity.
|
| At my last job X=3 and we had around 40 engineers on-site so
| it was pretty dangerous.
|
| At my current job X~5 maybe but we only have 2 engineers on-
| site, so it's safe.
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| Laughs in Factorio.
|
| Honestly I think that's a game made to destroy technological
| economies.
| agentwiggles wrote:
| Haha, what a funny thought. It's like a special productivity
| poison, takes some percentage of your engineers and just
| deactivates them. That sounds like a great premise for a sci
| fi short, aliens sending some nerd-snipe super stimulus to
| soften up Earth.
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| This is the plot of an Alastair MacLean novel involving a
| mysterious electronic device that was supposed to be "lost"
| to the Soviets (the guy they choose to lose it wasn't told
| about that bit and turned out to be pretty good at the job
| he thought he had).
| dropit_sphere wrote:
| I love Alastair MacLean's stuff! What was it called?
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| I remembered wrongly, it's _Running Blind_ by Desmond
| Bagley. Mostly set in Iceland.
| throw2500 wrote:
| From the Wikipedia article about the multi-armed bandit
| problem:
|
| >Originally considered by Allied scientists in World War
| II, it proved so intractable that, according to Peter
| Whittle, the problem was proposed to be dropped over
| Germany so that German scientists could also waste their
| time on it.[13]
| Verdex wrote:
| "General, the Allies have dropped pamphlets containing
| what our top scientists are calling a memetic
| infohazard."
|
| "An infohazard? Have the eggheads come up with a new term
| for propaganda, we've got people to handle this stuff,
| why are you bringing it up to me?"
|
| "Well, sir, they say this time it's different. It's not
| propaganda for ordinary citizens, it's a distraction for
| scientists and technical personal."
|
| "Okay ... do they have any recommendations?"
|
| "Yes sir, they say the only thing we need to do is make
| sure that the eggheads don't read it."
|
| "That's it? Well, these are men of science and
| discipline, that should be easy. Issue the order. I
| wonder why they thought it was so important that you
| would have to interrupt me."
|
| "I couldn't say, sir. They seemed quite agitated."
|
| Meanwhile, in the lab.
|
| "So, this folder contains an enemy memetic infohazard. In
| order to prevent it from taking effect we've been ordered
| to not read it."
|
| Several scientists give knowing glances to each other.
|
| "A real memetic infohazard? I wonder how they
| accomplished that?" The scientist moves towards the
| folder.
|
| "Wait, what are you doing? We're not supposed to read
| it."
|
| "It's fine. I'll be the only one reading it and then I'll
| let you guys know what I find." The scientist opens the
| folder and looks at the papers within while making
| several 'hmm' sounds. "Hey, Frank, what do you think of
| this."
|
| "No, you said you would be the only one!"
|
| "Just me and Frank. Don't be a wet blanket."
|
| Frank begins to look over the papers, "You know, I bet
| this applies to what Sarah has been working on. Let's go
| talk to her."
|
| "Wait, no. You just said ..."
|
| "Me, Frank, and Sarah, no big deal." The scientists leave
| the room with the folder.
| TremendousJudge wrote:
| perfect, reads like a story by qntm
| NKosmatos wrote:
| Hello fellow SCP agents. We're supposed to keep our
| involvement with the SCP foundation hidden. This
| antimemetic sentence will take care of any leaks ;-)
| [deleted]
| thallian wrote:
| Reading this while drinking from a universal paperclips mug, I
| can only sigh and agree.
| jarenmf wrote:
| Although I've played it before, I was sucked into the black
| hole.
| l0b0 wrote:
| I've played through UP twice. When it comes to time sinks, it's
| nowhere near the ultimate death spiral that is Kittens Game. To
| date it has taken me about 5 times as long as a UP playthrough
| (and 500+ lines of JS automation which I seem to have to tweak
| every day to deal with the changing economy) and I don't seem
| to be anywhere near the end.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| I'm happy to have not tried Kittens and will stay away from
| it. UP wasn't too bad. It was a time sink until I played all
| the way through it, and then wasn't too bad. The murderous
| game for me was 2048. I had to block the site in /etc/hosts
| to break out of the game. More recently, duckduckgo has
| embedded it as an easter egg in their search screen, so it's
| harder to block that way.
|
| I also waste time on chess puzzles, lichess.org/training ,
| but that isn't so bad since it's easier to pull away, and I
| felt for a while like it was helping my game, and decided to
| count that as improving my mind, as contrasted with 2048
| which is pure inanity.
| muxator wrote:
| The 2048 author used to hang around here. I am sure he
| would be glad to give you back all the time he took from
| you with his black sorcery!
| danuker wrote:
| The way I broke out of addiction to the Kittens game is by
| using save game editors, which I warmly recommend.
|
| Before that, I have spent days with it piggybacking on my
| brainwaves. But after that, I lost interest, feeling
| overwhelmed with the complexity of the game.
| philsnow wrote:
| I only broke my Diablo 2 addiction in college when I used
| one of those tools that drives your character on Mephisto
| runs to scum drops.
|
| In the course of one night running it unattended, I got the
| two items I'd been looking for for weeks. Cheating at the
| game broke me out of the Skinner box overnight.
| hallway_monitor wrote:
| I like your quitting story. I quit when my very high
| level character died, in hardcore mode. Thinking about
| the hours that went into that character was horrifying.
| philsnow wrote:
| I generally play "roguelike" games (the most important
| criterion of which, in my opinion, is permadeath), and I
| often feel the same way.. the thing is that I feel that
| way _win or lose_.
| foobarian wrote:
| I had a hard time with that one. I tried leaving the CD
| at the office, but late at night when the withdrawal
| kicked in I ended up driving to the office and fetching
| it anyway. I truly felt like the meta-story of the game
| was that the CD itself was the crystal and the player was
| the traveler.
| joshspankit wrote:
| This has been one of the only consistently successful
| techniques to break game addictions.
| mellavora wrote:
| OMG!Why did you do it! Why did you mention the kittens!
|
| Before this moment, I was blissfully ignorant and had time to
| get things done, time to take walks in the sun with my wife,
|
| And now, now, mrweow!
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I'm on year 37,000 of my current reset; 3k more will get me
| the last achievement with a star. Of course in the meantime
| they added some new challenges...
| yurishimo wrote:
| Have you ever played Trimps? Started a week ago and I'm
| hooked... I wish it had better mobile support though.
| NKosmatos wrote:
| Oh come on now!!! Why did you have to mention Kittens Game,
| I've got actual work to do. Who has the time to gather catnip
| during their normal working hours...oh look a new kitten has
| joined my village :-)
| beckingz wrote:
| Kittens Game is so amazingly brutal. Numbers go up, but at
| what cost!
|
| (hundreds of hours)
| bigyikes wrote:
| Oh my god, I put my phone down for a few minutes and killed
| 10 kittens.
|
| Why did you do this to me?
| bombcar wrote:
| oh my sweet winter child, you have not even begun to
| accidentally.
| Grothendank wrote:
| Well, I just spent 7 hours on it before reading this warning,
| thanks for nothing you sick bastard!
|
| Just kidding! I just genocided a whole universe into
| paperclips. I've never BEEN more productive! OR MORE SELF
| LOATHING! _SHRIEKS THE 'THRENODY FOR THE HEROES OF THE BATTLE
| OF SHA"DUIN'_
| vikingerik wrote:
| Counterpoint: Do go play Universal Paperclips. It's a long term
| play. You'll lose a week or so immersed in it... but it's so
| good that then you'll lose any taste or desire for any of the
| other clicker games designed for longer time spans.
| GenerocUsername wrote:
| It's about 10 hours in playtime if your being casual.
|
| More if your bad.
|
| Speedrunners have it at about 1.5 hours
| dragontamer wrote:
| I'd say it took me ~3 days to complete in my first run (a
| few hours of play for 3 days).
|
| I've got it down to about 3 hours. Not speedrun worthy, but
| yeah, proof that the game is short enough to complete in
| one sitting if you know what you're doing.
| coldpie wrote:
| I clicked the button until it said 30, clicked all the other
| buttons a few times and nothing happened, then closed the tab.
| I guess I'm immune.
|
| When does it get interesting?
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| It gets interesting once you see that hypno drones are
| something that you can save up for and buy. You're an AI, so
| the ability to influence the humans around you is useful.
|
| You'll need somewhat more than 30 paperclips to get the full
| story.
| coldpie wrote:
| So, the first thing happens at 31? 500?
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I don't know. I'm at 16,285 and stuff is happening. If
| you optimize your price and invest in auto clippers it
| shouldn't take too long to really get rolling.
|
| If the available inventory is bouncing off of 0 your
| price is too low, if it's growing, it's too high, so you
| (as an AI) are learning about market clearing price right
| now. Later, you'll learn other things.
| dottedmag wrote:
| 50 or 100
| bakkoting wrote:
| The first interesting thing happens when you have $5 of
| available funds. (Specifically, autoclippers become
| available to purchase.)
|
| When precisely you hit that point depends on how well you
| are managing the price to balance ensuring that your
| unsold inventory is getting purchased reasonably quickly
| against getting a reasonable amount of money per unit
| sold, but it will probably be less than a minute.
| coldpie wrote:
| Thank you. May give it another look after work.
| raydiatian wrote:
| If you've got the time it's a quaint meditation in unbounded
| exponential growth. Besides, a future without hypnodrones is no
| future at all.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| It's bounded, eventually we all must succumb to the drift...
| rpastuszak wrote:
| That's exactly what a hypnodrone would say
| daveslash wrote:
| Me: What is this... I don't get it....[ _clicks around_ ]
|
| Me 2 min later: _Well, shit.... there goes my morning...._
|
| Me 20 min later: _What the hell, I 've already spent 20 minutes
| on this thing?!?_
|
| Edit: Okay, all jokes aside.... I just spent a whole hour on
| this. Seriously.... holy cow....
| bo1024 wrote:
| See you next week
| daveslash wrote:
| Update: I'm back. nearly 8 hours later.... I finished/beat
| the game. _sigh_.... back to work.....(but it was fun while
| it lasted)
| harel wrote:
| That is truth and fact... Take it from the UP survivors: don't
| start
| mcrowson wrote:
| Found this several times over the year$. I cannot lose another
| day to universal paperclip domination. not today paperclips,
| not today....
| loopdoend wrote:
| 6 hours later...
| sixothree wrote:
| At the very least, do _not_ do this during work hours. It looks
| like something you can knock out on a quick break. It is not.
| carl_dr wrote:
| Have there been any recent, good games of this genre?
|
| It seems to have reached a peak with Cookie Clicker, Kittens
| Game, A Dark Room and Universal Paperclips, others I've tried
| have been poor in comparison.
| bombcar wrote:
| Kittens has been by far the most interesting for me - because
| the various loops are so different and the concept of
| "resetting". It's the only one I've played with for longer than
| a few days, because somehow I don't feel like I've "lost out"
| if I stop for a week.
| willis936 wrote:
| Clickers cross over with idle/incremental games. Both genres
| are rife with dark patterns and player exploitation, but there
| are some notable exceptions.
|
| Reactor Incremental takes the concepts from IndustrialCraft 2's
| nuclear reactors and pushes it far. I think it's the peak of
| the 2D geometry geometric growth optimizer genre.
|
| https://www.kongregate.com/games/cael/reactor-incremental
|
| I've wanted to make my own for a while but I haven't thought of
| a way to overcome the what I think is the main issue with the
| genre: waiting. Instead of running constantly a design could
| run instantly at the cost of some credits. The better the
| design the more investment credits you would get in return.
| Balance would have to heavily favor investment in design
| changes in between runs to avoid the game switching from an
| incremental idler to an incremental clicker. Perhaps the player
| would need to spend a type of credit that you only get from
| design modification to run a round.
|
| Basically: I want a 2D geometry optimizer incremental game that
| isn't an idler or a clicker.
|
| There is also a lot of room for creativity in this space. I
| think the ceiling can be really raised with things like
| multiblocks. Imagine something like a fusion reactor where you
| need confinement blocks and heating blocks. There is no
| prescriptive layout, just some rules needed for it to work and
| performance would depend on the layout.
| polyx_ wrote:
| Antimatter Dimensions is another really good one, focused on
| different kinds of prestiges and BIIIG numbers and by big I
| mean 1e100000 big
| acutesoftware wrote:
| Not that recent, but another 2 good games are: Evolve (
| https://pmotschmann.github.io/Evolve/ ) start as cells, evolve
| to humans (or anything), craft stuff, conquer space
|
| Swarm Simulator ( https://www.swarmsim.com/ ) breed bugs, eat
| meat, consume universe
| jmpman wrote:
| I've read there's a push to legalize cocaine. I'm willing to make
| Universal Paperclips illegal in exchange for cocaine
| legalization. Overall harm reduction.
| pjscott wrote:
| You know what else gets you a lot of harm reduction, for
| (almost) any given utility function? _Hypnodrones._
| aliqot wrote:
| > legalize cocaine
|
| It's legal already, just scheduled and controlled.
| [deleted]
| mikewarot wrote:
| I ran through it 100 times, that was enough. Long covid gives you
| lots of time for silly things like that. 8(
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