[HN Gopher] Playstation VR2
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Playstation VR2
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 139 points
       Date   : 2022-11-02 14:16 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | downrightmike wrote:
       | Maybe after this spends a few years flopping, they'll make a
       | converter box for PSVR1
        
       | macrolime wrote:
       | Now if only I could get my hands on a PS5 that's not being sold
       | for double price.
        
       | ARandomerDude wrote:
       | Honestly, I just want to know when I'll be able to walk into any
       | big box store and buy a PS5 on a whim.
        
       | bdw5204 wrote:
       | The problem for PSVR2 is that the first one didn't really have
       | any must-play games and the 2nd one's only game of note at launch
       | is Horizon which is notorious for always releasing at the same
       | time as some other action RPG that the mass market goes nuts for
       | (Zelda and that Dark Souls game written by the Game of Thrones
       | guy). It also doesn't help that there's no backward compatibility
       | with PSVR1 games (that would allow devs to easily make cross-gen
       | games and take advantage of the last gen VR install base), that
       | the price is so high or that PS5s still aren't easy to buy. This
       | feels like it could be another PSVR1 or PS Vita where Sony gets
       | bored with it after it doesn't sell huge immediately and gives
       | up.
       | 
       | Even as somebody whose game of the year for this year is Horizon
       | 2, I'm unsure about paying $600 for a Horizon spinoff coming out
       | at the same time as the Harry Potter RPG. I expect it to be
       | sitting on the shelf for MSRP at your local Walmart, Target,
       | GameStop or Best Buy on launch day and basically every day
       | afterwards. The fact that I'm unsure whether or not I'll even
       | bother preordering it or just wait until I'm ready to play
       | Horizon is not a good sign.
        
         | vlunkr wrote:
         | It's an odd coincidence that Horizon Call of the Mountain is
         | the flagship game for PSVR2 and Horizon Worlds is the game Meta
         | is pushing for Oculus. Probably not great for Sony.
        
       | aceazzameen wrote:
       | I would be excited for it if it worked on PCs too. Why can't we
       | move the headset between the PS5 and PC? Do they not want to
       | invest in making it work for PCs? That's lost hardware sales. Are
       | they afraid Steam will eat into their own VR game sales? Outside
       | of exclusives, maybe it will? But because it's only on PS5, I
       | have no interest in owning a 2nd VR headset, which I'm sure will
       | be a reaction from most PC gamers. So that's lost hardware and
       | software sales too.
        
       | MichaelZuo wrote:
       | That is a surprisingly affordable price point for the technology
       | on offer.
       | 
       | Sony must have really efficient manufacturing, assuming they're
       | not selling at a loss.
       | 
       | A quality 120Hz 4000 x 2040 HDR OLED display alone would likely
       | cost at least half the MSRP.
        
         | bitcurious wrote:
         | Sony has a history of selling hardware at a loss at launch and
         | then recouping via subs/software/late-cycle sales.
        
           | bananaoomarang wrote:
           | Not sure why this is being downvoted... perhaps it is
           | documented somewhere they are not selling this at a loss but
           | ordinarily both Sony and Microsoft sell consoles at a loss
           | indeed.
           | 
           | I think ordinarily peripherals are not sold at a loss, but it
           | would make sense that a pricy VR headset would be the
           | exception.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | It's a hard sell. There are cheaper 120hz headsets on the
             | market, and the experience of tethering yourself to another
             | machine is pretty antiquated in 2022. Unless someone's
             | _only_ option for VR gaming is through their PS5, they 'd
             | probably be better-suited with anything else.
        
               | jklinger410 wrote:
               | Where is this 120hz headset that doesn't pair to another
               | system for a comparable price?
               | 
               | The META quest is MSRP $1,499 and Zuck says they are
               | shipping THAT at a loss.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | You might not know this but the Meta/Oculus Quest 2
               | (120Hz) has existed since 2020. I got my Quest 2, 2 years
               | ago, when it was still labeled Oculus on the box, for 350
               | Euros. I think now it's 450 Euros, inflation and all, but
               | at least the storage is double at 128GB.
               | 
               | Great device, saved my sanity during the winter
               | lockdowns.
        
               | jklinger410 wrote:
               | Ok right, but the current Oculus model is $1500.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | There is no "current" Oculus, as the newer "Quest Pro"
               | does not replace the older "Quest 2" but both are
               | available being sold in parallel at different price
               | brackets, like iPhone 14 Pro Max and iPhone SE.
               | 
               | And the Quest 2 alone is superior to the PSVR since it
               | has the "gaming console" built in, while being far
               | cheaper than the PSVR whiteout even accounting for the
               | extra cost of the PS5 in the equation.
               | 
               | Pricing aside, Meta had a decent product with the Quest
               | 2, as they went all-in and it was designed form the start
               | as a stand alone cordless platform and focused and
               | polished the entre VR gaming experience around that from
               | the ground up even buying dedicated VR game dev studios,
               | while for Sony, the PSVR is just a corded accessory to
               | the stationary PS5, but not the main product and so it's
               | not their main focus for PS5 gaming, and we'll see this
               | reflected in the amount and quality of VR titles they'll
               | put out.
               | 
               | The PSVR does win in the graphics department thanks to
               | the processing power of the PS5 but that comes at the
               | cost of reduce mobility thanks to the stupid cable
               | keeping your head tied to the PS5 and ruining your
               | immersion. In fact, I'm calling it right now: the cable
               | tether will make it a fail for most users. I expect the
               | return rates to be high followed by low retail sales and
               | people dumping them on ebay after a few months of
               | gathering dust, same like with the last PSVR they made.
               | It will flop as hard as the Quest Pro.
               | 
               | For people wanting to dip their toes in VR and play Beat
               | Sabre and Pistol Whip, 450 Euros is far easier to stomach
               | than invest 1300+ Euros in a PlayStation VR setup and
               | then hate it because you'll always have to take care of
               | not tangling yourself or tripping on the cable. We saw
               | the same with Valve's VR gear. People just didn't want to
               | put up with the hassle of having an expensive and corded
               | setup just to play Half-Life Alyx.
               | 
               | Meta/Oculus moved the goalposts so far with their
               | cordless self-contained devices, that any new VR gear
               | still needing cables and a separate PC/console to
               | function is an instant fail. I expect Apple's VR gear
               | will also be cordless, powered by their excellent mobile
               | Mx chips.
        
         | willis936 wrote:
         | This was my first thought too. It's an amazing looking piece of
         | kit. I will not be buying a Playstation, but I do wish the PC
         | VR space had someone continuing to push forward. The Index is
         | nice but they really missed a beat by going with LCD. I haven't
         | used my CV1 recently but I'm under the impression I will need a
         | meta login, which I'm not interested in doing.
        
           | rjh29 wrote:
           | The Oculus Quest 2 with Air Link kills most other headsets
           | dead, being both cheap, high-resolution and wireless.
        
             | nsxwolf wrote:
             | I find Air Link to be finicky enough that I hardly ever use
             | it. Once it's actually working it's pretty great, but the
             | dance I have to do to enable the feature on the headset,
             | enable the feature in Oculus Home (the settings don't
             | persist forever for some reason), then get Steam VR to be
             | happy with it... it's a lot of clicks (both in the real
             | world on mouse/keyboard, then in the headset with the
             | controllers, and back out and in again when something isn't
             | working), often requires rebooting the PC or Quest or both,
             | and is just a UX disaster overall.
        
           | jesuscript wrote:
           | https://rarest.org/tech/most-expensive-vr-headsets
           | 
           | From that list, the HP Reverb has been described as better
           | than the Index and Quest 2 due to higher quality screen and
           | FOV (priced well too).
           | 
           | The Primax and Aero are considered to be even more high end.
           | 
           | I am considering making the investment since VR and
           | Space/Flight/Racing sims are an entirely unique experience
           | with VR and all the joysticks/racing wheels.
        
             | telman17 wrote:
             | Tried the Reverb and was plagued by basic USB issues that
             | stemmed from having an Asus motherboard. Went through many
             | guides and troubleshooting before saying screw it, and
             | returned it for an Index instead.
             | 
             | (I use VR in Elite Dangerous and Flight Simulator)
        
             | squeaky-clean wrote:
             | The controller quality and tracking on the HP is worse than
             | Index or Quest 2 which is (rightfully) a big deal for some
             | people. The HP is the perfect VR headset for simracing and
             | flightsim though.
             | 
             | Be careful with simracing though! I started with one of the
             | $300 Logitech setups and am now a few thousand dollars deep
             | into a direct-drive setup. ;)
        
               | jesuscript wrote:
               | Yes, same here. I have just started.
        
             | mellosouls wrote:
             | _HP Reverb has been described as better than the Index and
             | Quest 2_
             | 
             | Unlikely - unless strictly on hardware specs - the Quest 2
             | is almost universally regarded (Google will confirm) as the
             | best current headset, simply on bang for buck.
        
               | qu4z-2 wrote:
               | This conversation doesn't seem to be about bang-for-buck.
               | There's also a difference between strict (on-paper)
               | hardware specs and the actual experience of using it.
        
           | rcarr wrote:
           | Give it a couple of years and I think you'll have Valve
           | release a Steam Deck with official support for their headset
           | for some kind of super portable VR set up. You can already do
           | it with the current gen (even wirelessly) but it's not quite
           | ready for prime time. Have a look at this video to see it in
           | action:
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/5FWDSFVp3NM
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | Affordability is one of the major issues of the metaverse.
           | Most people can't afford a VR ready PC as is and you're
           | lamenting that the Index doesn't use more expensive
           | components. I feel that Valve made the right choice with
           | cheaper components since their goal is increased adoption of
           | XR.
        
             | willis936 wrote:
             | Yet the PSVR2 is superior to the Index and costs half as
             | much. Something is driving that it'd be nice if that
             | something was able to propagate to PC VR.
        
               | chaostheory wrote:
               | PSVR2 is better than the Index in several ways, but PSVR2
               | came out 4 years after the Index. 4-5 years is now the
               | new console refresh cycle duration. PSVR2 is also part of
               | a completely closed platform. PCVR is a much more open
               | platform which tends to mean higher prices. Let's also
               | not forget that the Index uses base stations for
               | tracking, which is much more accurate (and also more
               | expensive) than inside out tracking.
        
         | jklinger410 wrote:
         | Stating the obvious but the total cost has to include the PS5,
         | no? To compare it to the META headset at least.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | Yes-ish. The mobile hardware in the meta headsets limits the
           | games available on it. If you want to play No Man's Sky VR
           | you're going to need to use Oculus Link (is it called Meta
           | Link now?) and a beefy PC.
           | 
           | If you just want a beat saber device the Quest 2 is
           | definitely way cheaper overall.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | > "PSVR games are not compatible with PSVR2, because PSVR2 is
       | designed to deliver a truly next-gen VR experience," explained
       | Hideaki Nishino, a vice president of platform experience at Sony,
       | in September.
       | 
       | That's just absurd. I don't have any PS equipment but I had
       | mulled over the idea of getting a PS5 and PSVR since I enjoy my
       | Quest 2 and would like better graphics/processing power but I
       | don't want to build a gaming PC for PCVR. Not supporting older
       | games feels very gross.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | jesuscript wrote:
       | What games are worth playing in VR on the ps5?
        
         | ErneX wrote:
         | Some of the ones I'm interested in so far:
         | 
         | Horizon: Call of the Mountain, Firewall Ultra, Resident Evil:
         | Village.
         | 
         | I'd love if they add VR support to Gran Turismo 7 but they
         | haven't announced anything related to this one.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | I bought the first PSVR.
       | 
       | I wanted to love VR but it made me so sick that I literally get
       | nauseous when I even think about using it.
       | 
       | All my interest in VR finished at that point which is a real pity
       | cause it felt exciting initially.
       | 
       | Anyone want to buy a PSVR? Used for about 2 hours total.
        
         | mdmglr wrote:
         | Same experience. Bought the PSVR at launch and it gave me a
         | headache. Ended up selling it for 50% of what I paid. Not going
         | to buy PSVR2. Maybe two or three more generations down the line
         | I will reconsider.
        
         | mnd999 wrote:
         | Does it have vomit on it?
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | Minimal. A little eucalyptus oil and a cloth should freshen
           | it up.
        
       | tuvan wrote:
       | After experiencing how good Oculus Link works over Wi-Fi LAN, I
       | won't purchase any wired VR headset no matter the quality. Wi-Fi
       | is fast enough to stream high quality video to any of these
       | headsets but for some reason it is still not embraced in the
       | circle.
        
         | FieryTransition wrote:
         | Too much variability in the home networks that people have are
         | likely one of the reasons
        
       | dymk wrote:
       | Not backwards compatible with PSVR version 1 games? I'm having a
       | hard time imagining a good reason for this. They claim it's
       | because it's a totally new VR experience... whatever that means.
        
         | slipheen wrote:
         | The controller is pretty different, and I don't think the
         | original PSVR games were written with an abstraction for that
         | like Steam games are.
        
           | dymk wrote:
           | VR PC games manage to run on Quest, Vive, you name it - the
           | controllers being different isn't a very compelling argument
           | why they've not given any backwards compatibility support.
           | 
           | As for the software abstraction being poor, that's also just
           | bad engineering on Sony's part then.
        
         | mortenjorck wrote:
         | There's so much great (and under-appreciated) content for PSVR,
         | I really hope Sony has some kind of upgrade path tooling for
         | developers to "remaster" existing titles for PSVR 2.
        
         | BashiBazouk wrote:
         | I would guess it's because psvr1 depended on an external camera
         | for tracking from both the headset and controllers. The new
         | headset has internal cameras and a completely new control
         | system. I would expect it will be each developer that has to
         | make their old game psvr2 compatible.
        
           | tuvan wrote:
           | Surely the games used a high level API that Sony could
           | support with this. I doubt games had any code related to
           | external camera tracking, the system must've just spit out
           | the position of the headset to the game.
        
         | NDizzle wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm a little bummed about this. Maybe it's a combination
         | of the controllers and the increase in resolution/etc. With the
         | gen 1, you had the move controllers and a remote camera. Games
         | were probably developed with that in mind - even if they knew
         | some changes were coming down the pipe, it would be difficult
         | to write the games with the VR2 system in mind.
         | 
         | Whether or not this is all abstracted away, I have no idea...
         | but there really is a pretty huge difference between 1 and 2 if
         | you think about the camera set up and the controller situation.
         | The move controllers were optional - they didn't even come with
         | the system. I think there were bundles that had them. They came
         | out BEFORE the VR system did, and were kind of a gimmick until
         | the PSVR landed.
         | 
         | Now that you have a real high quality headset, that ships with
         | standard, hopefully high quality controllers, the target
         | application should take advantage of those things.
        
         | kahrl wrote:
         | Their claim is complete horseshit. They must have decided that
         | including the previous game library was not worth the
         | development effort of an API translation layer. Hope they're
         | right...
        
           | ErneX wrote:
           | Some games presented the Dual Shock 4 controller visually
           | tracked in game, even if they managed to do a compatibility
           | layer those games still relied on tracking the DS4 controller
           | light via the camera.
           | 
           | But at least some devs have confirmed their psvr games will
           | be patched to support the new version, like No Man's Sky.
        
             | NDizzle wrote:
             | Unfortunately not everyone is like the folks who work on No
             | Man's Sky. They have released a boatload of fixes, new
             | content, engine updates, VR support, you name it, they keep
             | delivering.
             | 
             | Their support of that game has been very impressive over
             | the years. Launch was rocky, sure, but they recovered and
             | kept pushing ahead.
        
           | nortiest wrote:
           | It's not complete horseshit. The old controllers have more
           | buttons on them and the new controllers have thumbsticks, so
           | the controls for PSVR games won't map to PSVR2 hardware.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | sp332 wrote:
             | If you have a PSVR, you probably have the old controllers
             | too.
        
         | bayofpigs wrote:
        
       | skhameneh wrote:
       | As a Vive owner, this is the first headset to really catch my
       | interest since!
       | 
       | 120hz and OLED are exactly what I've been looking for in a "next
       | gen" headset. The inside-out tracking does give me some
       | hesitation, but overall it's sounding like this will be an
       | excellent piece of hardware. The biggest downside (and upside for
       | general consumers, just plug and play) would be platform support
       | limited to Playstation... Which I'm eager to see if community
       | efforts try to bring PC support given the excellent hardware
       | specs/price.
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | Inside out tracking is great these days. Unless you mean you're
         | worried about Sony's implementation specifically?
        
           | skhameneh wrote:
           | My worries aren't specific to Sony's implementation, it's
           | specifically related to the processing latency that's been
           | associated with inside-out tracking. My understanding is
           | inside out typically uses CMOS sensors which generally have
           | inherent latency returning an image that must be processed
           | quickly. Outside-in generally uses photo-diodes with lighter
           | processing.
           | 
           | I have yet to try modern headsets to see for myself, but my
           | hunch is there's some level of latency that isn't present
           | with outside-in. It's also worth noting some individuals may
           | have varied perceptions of latency while their pyshical
           | response of fatigue/etc may be more present than their actual
           | awareness. Anecdotally, I once got in an argument with a
           | professor that I could visibly notice when CRT monitors were
           | set to 50hz (instead of 60hz) and would get headaches. Now
           | it's generally accepted many can discern between much higher
           | refresh rates than that FWIW.
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | Inside out SLAM isn't solely dependent on optics. It also
             | uses IMUs to fill in the interim.
             | 
             | You can quite easily test this on any phone that supports
             | AR (I'd recommend an iPhone).
             | 
             | You get tracking even if you occlude the camera for a
             | couple frames.
        
         | gowings97 wrote:
         | Does PS5 have enough power to really do 4k120 with ray tracing?
        
           | skhameneh wrote:
           | Yes and no. I believe it's called foveated rendering where
           | eye tracking is used for adaptive rendering, which allows for
           | high performance without any perception of degradation.
        
           | namelessoracle wrote:
           | Not really unless they have some programming magic. Some of
           | the stuff the console devs squeeze out is pretty magical
           | sometimes.
        
       | evo_9 wrote:
       | As a Vive VR owner going on ~6 years with that setup, yeah I
       | don't know why anyone would spend as much as a PS5 for a VR
       | headset. I really like some aspects of VR gaming, but overall,
       | for me at least, it's pretty clear it's a very niche device.
       | 
       | There are a few genres that translate reasonable well to VR but
       | most of the big categories do not. Things like sports game
       | (Madden, NBA 22/23, NHL 22/23,etc), likely impossible to adapt to
       | VR. Platformers, ditto. Strategy games, why? MMO's? Maybe, but
       | probably not either.
       | 
       | The fast majority of actual, good / fun / successful games in VR
       | are of a few very specific types. Wave shooters (Space Pirate
       | Trainer, Blasters of the Universes -- both excellent btw), and
       | _some_ FPS (ideal created specifically for VR - aka Half Life:
       | Alyx is the gold standard). There are very few entirely new play
       | experiences  / game mechanics in VR to date; aka Beat Saber,
       | Pistol Whip and... that's all I can think of. Both are great
       | workout games btw. The only other great VR title that I play /
       | played a ton is In Death, and that's a bit of a unique bow
       | shooter, which I guess is another VR genre (bow games). Great
       | game, probably the best of that type.
       | 
       | Speaking of which, I do like the physical nature of VR and for
       | me, I tend to use it as a post-workout way to get in some extra
       | cardio with a nice amount of hand-eye/tracking mixed in. Games
       | like Beat Saber and Space Pirate Trainer, when played non-stop
       | for let's say 30 minutes or so, yeah you actually burn
       | significant calories.
       | 
       | Outside of that you have the sim category and that could be work
       | if you are super into racing games, flight sims, and that sort of
       | thing. I've played with a few race games in VR, mostly it works
       | ok, but not quite as well as I'd of thought (but maybe I need to
       | invest in a proper FF wheel, a gamepad kinda ruins it).
       | 
       | I enjoy VR gaming but I think it's going to remain a niche until
       | we get to some crazy, super advanced state where we can by pass
       | our eyes and 'beam' info right into the brain (however the hell
       | that would work); aka achieving a sort of ST Holodeck level type
       | thing. Or maybe Nintendo in a few generation will embrace VR and
       | then we get some truly unique / new game mechanics. I don't know
       | what else is going to break open this genre, but right now it
       | doesn't feel like it's moving forward at all where it matters
       | most - the software.
        
         | skhameneh wrote:
         | Vive owner here too.
         | 
         | I understand the sentiment, the price does push this into what
         | I'd call "prosumer" category. But... PSVR2 is the first headset
         | to really catch my interest. The Valve Index sounded nice, but
         | I was disappointed in the lack of OLED especially given the
         | Index's price. The PSVR2 is what I've been looking for in new
         | hardware and I think it's a step in the right direction.
        
         | thesausageking wrote:
         | I have an Oculus and love it. Blaston, thrill of the fight,
         | superhot, .. The only thing I don't like is it's owned by
         | Meta/FB. I don't have/don't want a Facebook account and don't
         | want to commit to the Meta/Oculus ecosystem.
         | 
         | I already have a ps5, plan to get this headset, and could see
         | it really taking off.
        
         | CobaltFire wrote:
         | Assetto Corsa in VR is absolutely immersive with a proper
         | driving rig, to the point that even without motion I brace
         | myself.
         | 
         | DCS and MS Flight Sim are similarly immersive if you have a
         | proper cockpit.
         | 
         | Controllers really break the immersion.
        
         | majormajor wrote:
         | Sports games seem like an immediately obvious one to make work
         | in VR, but it would be a very different model than the "top
         | down, control active player, see whole court at once" thing.
         | Think "actually playing" or "fitness game" more than today's
         | sports games.
         | 
         | You're gonna need plenty of space to turn around in, though,
         | which could be a big challenge for most people. Spinning your
         | player around with just a controller seems like the sort of
         | thing that would be likely to introduce motion sickness.
        
         | Karliss wrote:
         | I wouldn't consider Beat Saber an entirely new game mechanics.
         | It seems like pretty standard rhythm game format with
         | notes/beat coming towards you and requiring to activate
         | corresponding input at the right time. Rhythm games have the
         | history of having all kind unique and diverse input
         | methods.Some of them quite physically demanding like Dance
         | Dance Revolution style ones where you have to step on the dance
         | pad.
        
       | msoad wrote:
       | Do I need a PlayStation 5 to use this?
        
         | thefreeman wrote:
         | yes
        
           | shock-value wrote:
           | It's unclear if there will be a solution (possibly not
           | supported by Sony) to use it as a display for PC.
        
         | gpmcadam wrote:
         | > PlayStation VR2 is only compatible with a PS5 or PS5 Digital
         | Edition console
        
       | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
       | I don't know anything about VR, can someone tell me how this
       | compares to the Meta Advertisement Torture Device (MATD) that
       | costs $1500?
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | Meta Quest 2 which is what this competes with is $400 USD.
         | 
         | Pro version is for businesses.
        
           | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
           | How does it compare to the Quest 2?
        
             | washadjeffmad wrote:
             | What I'll say about the Quest 2 is if it had been marketed
             | as a portable wired or wireless PC headset that can do
             | standalone VR, I wouldn't have thought so poorly of its
             | pre-Meta experience.
             | 
             | Now that the Facebook component has been gutted from it, I
             | can log in again, so I've actually been using it.
             | 
             | My biggest complaints are that it wasn't designed for Asian
             | facial features (I guess I could wear a prosthetic nose),
             | and none of the three IPD settings are sufficient for me or
             | my SO. Other models have a continuous slider for the
             | lenses, but the Quest 2 has only a few discrete positions,
             | and they don't work "in between".
        
               | germinalphrase wrote:
               | The IPD _really_ should be adjusted with a rotating wheel
               | while wearing.
        
             | dymk wrote:
             | I don't think anybody knows, because there aren't any
             | reviews of the PSVR2 yet, but generally reviews of the
             | Quest 2 are that it's a high quality device at a very good
             | price point
        
             | MikusR wrote:
             | PSVR2 needs additional 500-1000 USD device. Quest 2 is
             | standalone.
        
       | rubyist5eva wrote:
       | A friend of mine gave me a PSVR1 for my birthday (which I use on
       | my PS5). I'm playing Resident Evil 7 in VR mode and it's the most
       | immersive experience in any horror (or possibly any other genre,
       | really) game I've ever played. I was legitimately terrified and
       | didn't want to sleep the night I played it for the first time. I
       | am not a person that gets easily scared in horror films or games
       | and usually get a laugh out of the absurdity of gore and jump
       | scares but RE7 just hit much different in VR. The dinner table
       | scene at the beginning of the game, and the chase sequences were
       | absolutely horrifying.
       | 
       | If Resident Evil 8 and/or the Resident Evil 4 remakes get VR
       | modes I will buy PSVR2 on day one.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | I was a fan of the original Resident Evil on the PS1, and some
         | of the earlier survival horror games like Silent Hill. I felt
         | that Silent Hill in particular crossed the line into
         | unenjoyable territory for me. The game was superb, but the
         | horror was just too unsettling to keep playing. I would get
         | physically ill, with stomach cramps, nightmares, etc., that it
         | took years of forcing myself to actually finish it. Same with
         | SH2 a few years later. Then the RE series took a more action
         | oriented turn, and I lost interest.
         | 
         | Until RE7, which I started playing without VR. I can agree that
         | it's truly horrifying, and a return to their roots. The first-
         | person perspective also adds a lot to the immersion. As much as
         | I'm curious, I couldn't imagine playing it in VR.
         | 
         | If you're looking for a different kind of horror, give
         | Subnautica a try. It's terrifying even without VR. I've played
         | for many hours and still can't get myself to finish it.
         | 
         | Part of me thinks it's a bit silly to intentionally subject
         | yourself to the stress that these games produce, and as I get
         | older, I seek more enjoyable experiences. Yet for some reason,
         | I keep going back to them...
        
           | rubyist5eva wrote:
           | I have Subnautica on PC and love it, you're right it is very
           | scary because of the way the world is setup and the type of
           | threats you face. I recently moved and my HTC Vive is packed
           | up and haven't had the motivation to hook up the sensors
           | again, so I may hook it up to go back and try the VR mode now
           | that you mention it.
        
         | oneoff786 wrote:
         | It helps that resident evil 7 is just a good game. The first
         | half at least. It made some very smart decisions to approach
         | horror differently.
         | 
         | I'm not convinced the vr adds much. I heard you aim guns with
         | your head, not your hands and found that stupid.
         | 
         | The resident evil team has been exploring a lot of interesting
         | stuff with their titles. 8 is sort of a celebration of all of
         | it with sections of the game that are clearly designed around
         | the mentality of 4, 7, and 2 each
        
         | redredhathat wrote:
         | Great news - Resident Evil 8 will be released have an official
         | PSVR2 version. Full remake and PSVR2 integration.
         | 
         | There are trailers/previews available and it looks pretty darn
         | impressive.
        
           | rubyist5eva wrote:
           | Well then I'm sold. Gonna look into it, thanks!
        
       | adam_arthur wrote:
       | It's pretty clear that games are the entry point into wide
       | household adoption of VR.
       | 
       | The metaverse as is currently being pursued by many is nothing
       | more than an VR mmo.
       | 
       | We should be calling these things games rather than applying an
       | incorrect label or overhyping what they are. Until utility
       | reaches a point which proves otherwise.
       | 
       | Sony/Microsoft are best positioned to capitalize
        
         | intrasight wrote:
         | > entry point into wide household adoption of VR
         | 
         | The "gateway drug" is how I put it.
         | 
         | What do you mean by "incorrect label"? The "metaverse" label is
         | aspirational for sure at this point - but I don't think anyone
         | would disagree that it's what we are striving towards. So let's
         | keep that label and move towards it.
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | > The "gateway drug" is how I put it.
           | 
           | Now I'm thinking of that TNG episode where everyone on the
           | Enterprise gets addicted to the glasses headset game where
           | you get the discs in the wormholes
        
           | adam_arthur wrote:
           | VR is just a new display medium. Metaverse to me implies some
           | common spec with interoperative worlds, or statefulness that
           | persists... not simply a one off VR game
           | 
           | Using the current definition, "Second Life" in VR is also the
           | metaverse
        
         | onion2k wrote:
         | _It's pretty clear that games are the entry point into wide
         | household adoption of VR._
         | 
         | Ironically that's also the thing that will stop them getting
         | widespread support though. They'll always be seen as expensive
         | toys while gaming is the driving force behind adoption.
         | 
         | What's _really_ needed is support from the television and movie
         | industry (immersive programming), music (streaming VR gigs),
         | and collaborative remote socializing (something like
         | Metaverse). The problem with that those is cost - if you want
         | to enjoy a VR gig or a remote social occasion with your family
         | you need to spend _thousands of dollars_ on equipment.
         | 
         | VR might be mainstream in the same sense that a Playstation is,
         | but it'd take a _huge_ shift in thinking for it to ever be
         | mainstream like television is.
        
           | intrasight wrote:
           | > huge shift in thinking
           | 
           | There are plenty of visionaries besides Zuckerberg who have
           | made that shift. Some company or consortium will succeed in
           | creating the Metaverse, and then we'll all be gathering
           | there.
        
       | chaostheory wrote:
       | I'm hoping with the PSVR2 launch that people will finally realize
       | that the metaverse consists of way more than just meta and
       | Horizon. The current complaints on how the metaverse sucks are
       | like if people only visited Yahoo's homepage and decided that it
       | was the entire internet and that the entire internet was
       | terrible. It's a ridiculous way to evaluate an entire ecosystem,
       | but in their defense at least they took 5 minutes to actually try
       | it compared to nearly everyone else making terrible assumptions
       | on the metaverse based on 0 experience.
       | 
       | If Sony fails to bridge VR/AR to the masses, then it's all up to
       | Apple to save the industry. Meta built an amazing, affordable
       | product, but their brand is just so toxic that it'll take a
       | generational change before it can eventually recover its good
       | will and people in developed countries trust it again. Google has
       | a similar brand goodwill problem where they will also be unable
       | sustain any new metaverse related product introductions. Their
       | brand image has just been really damaged by their own internal
       | promotion system
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | _Meta built an amazing, affordable product, but their brand is
         | just so toxic that it'll take a generational change before it
         | can eventually recover its good will and people in developed
         | countries trust it again._
         | 
         | It's not their brand _per se_ that 's the issue, but the fact
         | that their headsets were bricks unless you had signed up for a
         | Facebook account with all the issues that come with that, from
         | privacy concerns to getting locked out seemingly on a whim:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_...
         | 
         | The response from Meta still leaves a lot to be desired:
         | https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/07/quest-vr-has-traded-f...
         | 
         | Less important than Meta rehabbing their brand image would be
         | them actually putting a stop to their user hostile behavior.
        
           | onethought wrote:
           | This isn't true. You've always been able to use a headset
           | with an oculus account. More recently you had to switch to a
           | Meta account. Neither of those are Facebook accounts.
           | 
           | Source: never had Facebook, but have had Quests
        
             | zizee wrote:
             | I also never had to connect my (rift) headset to a Facebook
             | account, but wasn't there a period when new quests needed
             | to be connected to Facebook accounts?
        
             | iwillbenice wrote:
        
             | vvillena wrote:
             | If you didn't have a previously-existing Oculus account,
             | there was a period in which you were forced to use your
             | Facebook account. I think this was since the release of
             | Quest 2, up until a few months ago.
        
         | zitterbewegung wrote:
         | I think you forgot Valve although they don't seem to follow
         | through with their hardware.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | The WMR headsets are all pretty good, but the ecosystem
           | suffers from the typical MSFT, "Oh yeah, we should build one
           | of those too!" dynamic. Pretty good hardware, but a variety
           | of factors which just end up failing to attract people to the
           | platform in the long term.
           | 
           | See: Zune.
        
             | chaostheory wrote:
             | WMR is slowly being abandoned by MS. The G2 was a decent
             | attempt, but HP is pulling out too
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | That's why I didn't mention them. They're like Rolls Royce
           | where they build expensive toys for people with discretionary
           | cash. Most normal people outside of Silicon Valley do not
           | have the resources to justify spending about $3,000 on a
           | complete PCVR setup
        
             | zitterbewegung wrote:
             | I have the disposable income I cant justify it because I
             | can't multitask and also I have to also pay for glasses
             | inserts. I want to play a space based VR game but I don't
             | see one out. I have a stand-alone headset (a oculus quest
             | 2) and I don't even play it.
        
               | phyrex wrote:
               | Tbf the quest pro does exactly that. You can wear it with
               | glasses and it's designed to let you multitask
        
               | wingmanjd wrote:
               | Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky are both space-based PC
               | VR games, if you're still looking around for one. Your
               | quest 2 might be able to stream them from a PC.
               | 
               | My eyesight is _just_ able to play without glasses
               | inserts, so I marginally feel your pain. I wish I could
               | use my glasses. Maybe it's time I pulled out contacts
               | again.
        
               | chaostheory wrote:
               | You don't need glass inserts for the Meta Pro, and some
               | other headsets. With PCVR, it is totally possible to
               | multitask. You just have to both able and willing to pay
               | for better systems.
        
         | volkk wrote:
         | > I'm hoping with the PSVR2 launch that people will finally
         | realize that the metaverse consists of way more than just meta
         | and Horizon.
         | 
         | agreed. it's unfortunate that FB decided to just coin
         | "Metaverse" since it's all encompassing. to your later point,
         | it's as if Yahoo decided to launch a product called "Internet"
         | and have it be an awful piece of software turning off everyone
         | from the concept of the internet and pushing it back another
         | decade simply due to terrible branding
        
           | dreadlordbone wrote:
           | They didn't coin "metaverse" it comes from Snowcrash and was
           | later evangelized by Mathew Ball.
        
             | volkk wrote:
             | sure, to us nerds that's obvious. but not to my fiance, or
             | to my mom. metaverse = FB
        
               | gardenhedge wrote:
               | my parents definitely don't think metaverse = FB
        
             | fknorangesite wrote:
             | True, but outside of HN-bubbles, where do you think most
             | people first heard the term?
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | Yes, this what drives me crazy. I don't understand how so
           | many smart and educated people fell for meta's ad and
           | marketing campaign. I guess the campaign was just so amazing
           | for that many people to be mislead. Someone should rename
           | their company into Internet and maybe enough people will
           | believe that this new company is the sole owner and developer
           | of the Internet
        
             | Firmwarrior wrote:
             | Haha, the 3d TV industry deserves some marketing hate too,
             | and Google for their godawful crap cardboard platform.
             | 
             | I'll bet that once someone puts out a super polished
             | platform with a handful of killer apps, it'll take off
             | anyway. Right now even if you gave away preconfigured VR
             | headsets to everyone for free they wouldn't use them
        
               | chaostheory wrote:
               | I strongly feel that meta already did create that super
               | polished platform with Beat Saber as the first killer
               | app. Not enough people are even willing to give it a try
               | due to a combination of FB's broken brand and the
               | intimidating giant box that you have to put on your face.
               | Hopefully, the new smaller form factors will help with
               | the last problem
        
               | linuxftw wrote:
               | Or, you know, we played guitar hero and there's no need
               | to relive the past with a screen 3 inches from your
               | eyeballs?
        
               | chaostheory wrote:
               | You haven't tried modern VR yet have you? Google
               | Cardboard doesn't count.
        
             | three_seagrass wrote:
             | It's not so much "falling for it" as it is jumping on the
             | bandwagon.
             | 
             | The hype is real, and mirthless smart people are just
             | looking to cash in on Meta's billion dollar branding moves.
        
               | chaostheory wrote:
               | > It's not so much "falling for it" as it is jumping on
               | the bandwagon.
               | 
               | I don't see much of a difference between the two. I can
               | understand the non-techie masses doing this, but not what
               | seems like the majority of HN users.
        
         | tacker2000 wrote:
         | You miss the point that video games are not a top priority for
         | meta, they are betting on work and casual users that will hang
         | out all day long in their metaverse VR world with their goggles
         | on, much like people use their phones nowadays, and then
         | consume their ads.
         | 
         | If Zuck was smart, he could have a partnership with Sony and
         | push out a launch title for this.
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | > You miss the point that video games are not a top priority
           | for meta
           | 
           | If that were true, the work features would have shipped
           | already, but they were busy with gaming which is why they
           | bought several game studios. Games were a major focus for
           | meta because it's one of the traditional vectors for new
           | technology adoption. Well, that and pornography.
           | 
           | Let's hope that you're right now assuming meta is changing
           | course, and I'm wrong because I've been waiting to use the
           | work features. So far, the 3rd party options and the
           | resolution for reading text still isn't good enough
        
             | zizee wrote:
             | The recent launch of the Quest Pro was clearly focussing on
             | use cases other than games, and the pro's resolution and
             | pancake lenses appear to be now reached "good enough" to
             | work with/read text in.
        
               | chaostheory wrote:
               | That's true, but a common reviewer complaint is that the
               | work applications still aren't there yet. There are a few
               | design VR apps, but most of the big productivity apps on
               | the Meta store are just bookmarks to web apps. This
               | changes when MS and Office arrive on the Quest.
        
             | intrasight wrote:
             | Gaming is just the gateway drug to the Metaverse. And they
             | probably bought the studios mainly for talent.
        
         | tjpnz wrote:
         | I don't care about the metaverse. Just let me have fun playing
         | some video games in VR.
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | Multiplayer VR games are part of the metaverse... the
           | metaverse is just XR with a network connection over the
           | internet. That's all it is which one reason I don't
           | understand all the hate for such a neutral medium from fellow
           | techies
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | I'll do you one better...
           | 
           | It's been almost 3 years since Half Life Alyx and nothing in
           | the Vr space has come even remotely close.
           | 
           | It's the killer app problem. There are a few very cool
           | experiences in VR, but overall it a sad environment.
           | 
           | I have no doubt it'll be big. Just curious on HOW SLOWLY it's
           | going.
        
             | jayd16 wrote:
             | I think we agree, but terminology wise its not a killer app
             | problem. Its an install base problem. (which is a chicken
             | and egg problem) If the install base was there, big studios
             | would invest the time.
        
             | germinalphrase wrote:
             | My take is simply that the resolution is too low relative
             | to average users expectations (set by their tv and
             | smartphone).
             | 
             |  _Every single person_ with whom I have shared my Quest 2
             | has said something to the effect of "is it supposed to be
             | so blurry?" and "this thing is uncomfortable".
             | 
             | The tech is really cool - and the experiences are not
             | totally there (as you say) - but it's not developed enough
             | as a product.
        
             | insanitybit wrote:
             | I don't think it's a killer app problem so much as a
             | general UX issue. I really love RE4, I've played it 100x on
             | the GC and Wii, I could play it in my sleep.
             | 
             | I got it on VR and it was awesome. It was so much more
             | intense and fucking cool and extra flexible (I can hold a
             | knife and a shotgun at the same time???? fucking amazing).
             | 
             | The main thing is that I don't want to _just_ play video
             | games. I like to jump around a bit and do other things.
             | Switching apps is just really annoying in VR, usually it 's
             | not even possible.
             | 
             | Probably a better example is Netflix. I usually have TV
             | shows on throughout the day, pausing them constantly for
             | seconds, minutes, or hours, as I do something else, or
             | often letting them play in the background. Can't do that on
             | my Quest 2, it's either "sit in front of a TV and do
             | nothing else" or don't.
             | 
             | To me, these issues are really more OS level/ platform
             | level. The _VR UX_ is out of whack with how I want to use
             | it. Individually though, I can say that my experience is
             | that a VR version of something can be way cooler.
             | 
             | Also, I'd like to have a keyboard interface. If I could
             | wear something like fingerless gloves + have a keyboard
             | hooked up and I just sit at my desk with N virtual monitors
             | that would be amazing. But again, that's not really an
             | "app" problem, it's the OS/platform/UX.
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | Wanting to multitask VR and non-VR workloads is......
               | unusual. You may be extremely niche here.
        
               | dpkirchner wrote:
               | I think I'd like that. Having some way to pop up an
               | overlay that I can interact with (reply to a chat
               | message, check a YT video, etc) while the game remains in
               | the primary display. Sort of an AR in VR.
        
               | insanitybit wrote:
               | I don't know anyone who sits down to just do one thing,
               | everyone hops between apps.
        
         | rjh29 wrote:
         | Apple is the worst thing that could happen to VR.
         | 
         | Facebook may be 'toxic' but the Meta is cheap, amazing,
         | supports Air Link for PC, even has cross-play (buy a Quest
         | game, play it on PC at better graphics). Privacy options, they
         | -removed- Facebook login, you can sideload apps. Tacit support
         | for modding games like Beat Saber.
         | 
         | Apple would turn their headset into a walled garden with no
         | ability to run custom apps and definitely no Air Link. Try to
         | mod a game and get banned.
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | > they -removed- Facebook login
           | 
           | They called it something else, they make you use different
           | credentials, but it's all Facebook on the backend.
        
             | georgeecollins wrote:
             | I am no expert but it does seem to be an improvement
             | because you don't have to install the FB app on your phone
             | or login to FB on your browser. The app in particular is
             | such a roach motel I am very glad to get away from it.
        
             | MikusR wrote:
             | Source?
        
             | nickthegreek wrote:
             | I believe its now a Meta Account.
        
             | justapassenger wrote:
             | Whose backend should it be using? Apple's?
        
           | lonelyasacloud wrote:
           | >>Apple is the worst thing that could happen to VR
           | 
           | Like they were for MP3 players, Smartphones, expensive
           | headphones and Smartwatches?
        
             | pandama wrote:
             | I can't deploy my own developed app to my own devices
             | permanently without paying $100/year.
             | 
             | Yes, I use Android.
        
           | thestevesie wrote:
           | Removed the Facebook login? Lol, now it prompts me every-time
           | I use it to create a Horizon's account. I personally couldn't
           | care less about the facebook login, and really never saw what
           | the big deal was. I created a facebook account which I only
           | use for the quest 2. You're going to need an account, what
           | does it matter which platform it is from?
           | 
           | I'm sick of people criticizing Apple's walled garden. It's
           | the primary feature of Apple products. It's what makes them
           | what they are. If you don't like it, just buy something else.
           | No one is forcing you to buy Apple if you don't like the
           | walled garden. Many people like it and I'm amazed that there
           | are so many people that don't understand that.
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | It's ironic, but I like and support meta so I agree with your
           | points.
           | 
           | Like meta, I also agree that Apple will be a double edged
           | sword for XR. On the positive side, Apple will help the
           | masses understand the potential of XR beyond gaming, and the
           | M chips blow everything away. On the negative side, only
           | we'll be able to afford a $3000 XR Apple headset which will
           | save meta's XR related effort since they're the affordable
           | option. They're scared of if, but whether or not Meta
           | realizes it, meta needs that Apple headset to release
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | An Apple headset and marketing dollars would galvanize the
           | industry. Meta will still release their headsets and probably
           | be better off for it because Apple will have primed consumers
           | to what the experience is. Apple doesn't usually pay for
           | exclusives so apps will make it to other platforms.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | lapser wrote:
           | > Privacy options
           | 
           | Are we talking about the same Meta company that owns
           | Facebook?
           | 
           | > they -removed- Facebook login
           | 
           | Which they added in the first place, much to the dismay of
           | literally everyone.
        
             | cheriot wrote:
             | Apple, on the other hand, loves to talk about privacy, but
             | if anyone in the conversation backs up messages to iCloud
             | then the whole thing is sitting on Apple's server
             | unencrypted[1]. WhatsApp is better.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/01/21
             | /appl...
        
             | camdat wrote:
             | Do you expect an equivalent Apple product to not require an
             | iCloud login?
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | >"PSVR games are not compatible with PSVR2, because PSVR2 is
       | designed to deliver a truly next-gen VR experience," explained
       | Hideaki Nishino, a vice president of platform experience at Sony,
       | in September.
       | 
       | I can't help but facepalm at this.
        
       | HelloMcFly wrote:
       | $550, no wireless, no backwards compatibility, and no integrated
       | audio forcing you to use your own earbuds linked to the PS5. The
       | displays look great, sure, but the total package is a
       | disappointment. I'm basically wrong at every prediction I make,
       | but this looks like just another novelty toy with little chance
       | of broad adoption.
        
         | ErneX wrote:
         | Fair criticism but it does come with headphones you can plug on
         | the headset itself, granted it's not the same as integrated
         | headphones but they include some in the box.
         | 
         | You can of course use other ones, either plugged to the headset
         | or wireless ones like the Pulse 3D.
        
           | shock-value wrote:
           | It's better than having integrated headphones I think. If the
           | included ones (however basic they are) are in-ear, then the
           | immersion and sound quality would likely be better than
           | anything that would be attached to the headset.
           | 
           | Onboard audio is just a waste of money for something that
           | neither casuals nor enthusiasts would care about (former by
           | definition, latter because they would prefer to use their own
           | audio gear).
           | 
           | Lack of wireless is a definite minus though.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | _no wireless_
         | 
         | And less space than a Nomad!
        
         | jshier wrote:
         | What wireless tech could run 2 x (2000 x 2040) X 120Hz
         | displays?
        
           | intrasight wrote:
           | WiFi 7 can. The tech will evolve. I assume the next
           | generation will be wireless.
        
             | tkk23 wrote:
             | If VR is successful, can WiFi 7 handle a family of four
             | playing their games in the evening, with neighbors who
             | require the same bandwidth?
        
           | HelloMcFly wrote:
           | I think the question is: are those screens worth retaining a
           | tether? Should a wireless experience have been prioritized?
           | Those screen specs aren't a _given_.
           | 
           | A wired VR headset for one's computer is already asking a
           | lot, but bringing it to your living space is asking even
           | more.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | That's exactly what I came here to say. Buying PSVR2, a PS5 and
         | a single game will easily run you over $1,000 - that's crazy.
         | It doesn't even make sense why it would exist in the market;
         | the $400 Quest 2 probably has a larger game library and better
         | overall experience than the PSVR2. Premium customers have the
         | Valve Index available at the $500-$600 price point, and further
         | down the road it's expected to see Apple compete in the
         | standalone premium headset market. This product makes zero
         | sense in 2022, I sorta wish Sony spent some more time figuring
         | it out.
        
           | itsyaboi wrote:
           | Where are you seeing the Valve Index for $500 (assuming not
           | second hand)? Wouldn't mind picking one up for that price...
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | MSRP for the standalone headset is $500: https://store.stea
             | mpowered.com/app/1059530/Valve_Index_Heads...
        
               | branon wrote:
               | That page says it requires the base stations. Can you use
               | the headset as a standalone display output without base
               | stations? I can think of at least one reason why people
               | would. As long as you had a compatible media player and
               | video file...
        
           | sylens wrote:
           | Yeah, I think the price by itself isn't a dealbreaker, it's
           | all of the context. If I could hook this up to my PC and use
           | it to play Half-Life Alyx, or scoop up a bunch of cheap PSVR1
           | games on Black Friday to catch up on, it would be a much
           | easier purchase for me.
        
             | christkv wrote:
             | I think its not going to be compatible with PSVR1 games
             | unless they are patched.
        
         | callahad wrote:
         | > _another novelty toy with little chance of broad adoption._
         | 
         | ...is that the fate of every console accessory? I can 't think
         | of any accessories that would clear the "broad adoption" bar.
         | The NES Zapper is the closest to subjective ubiquity in my
         | mind, but even then its library was limited to Duck Hunt and a
         | half dozen forgettable titles.
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | The Microsoft Kinect had pretty wide adoption for a little
           | while.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | HelloMcFly wrote:
           | I suppose I wasn't thinking of broad adoption just for PSVR,
           | but adoption at levels that feels like it really grows the VR
           | space. I don't think PSVR2 is going to grow the space much,
           | but I really hoped that it _would_ so this is a
           | disappointment.
           | 
           | But again - every prediction I make is likely to be wrong.
        
           | zerocrates wrote:
           | Analog controllers for the PS1? They were only released later
           | so you could call them accessories.
           | 
           | Though a different situation when they eventually just bundle
           | it with the console, I suppose.
        
       | nathan_compton wrote:
       | I can't believe they are launching a new PS5 peripheral when you
       | can't even get a PS5 without a huge hassle or paying a big
       | premium.
        
         | _JamesA_ wrote:
         | The PS5 CoD bundle is available on the PlayStation store[1]. It
         | doesn't seem like much of a hassle to click a button.
         | 
         | [1]: https://direct.playstation.com/en-
         | us/consoles/console/playst...
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | It's not widely available in many other countries still.
        
             | glenneroo wrote:
             | I've been trying to get one since they came out for a
             | friend and I just looked again: there is one company who
             | has some in stock but they are asking 900EUR!
        
               | qu4z-2 wrote:
               | I was casually keeping an eye on websites, etc, and never
               | found one. Then earlier this year I decided I really
               | wanted one for Elden Ring, went in person to a games
               | store and talked to them, and had one three weeks later.
               | So that may be worth a shot.
        
         | o_m wrote:
         | They have sold 25M units, so it doesn't matter that its still
         | hard to buy one.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | I'm sure it depends on location but I've stumbled upon a few
         | opportunities to buy a PS5 in Canada without explicitly trying.
         | 
         | That said I haven't pulled the trigger because I can't justify
         | a console + a game for $800 when there's really only one
         | exclusive I want to play right now. And it's a remake of a game
         | I already own/played (Demon's Souls)
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | i think you're just a bit unlucky.
         | 
         | try various twitter accounts that post real time ps5 stock
         | updates.
        
       | nerdjon wrote:
       | I don't understand the market for a device like this at this
       | cost.
       | 
       | Are there really enough people that would spend this much on a VR
       | system in a closed ecosystem instead of going with one attached
       | to your PC that has access to everything?
       | 
       | I bought the valve index (which is more than this) because I can
       | use it with Steam and any VR games outside of steam. Plus
       | modding.
       | 
       | I feel like Sony should have subsidized the hardware more
       | accounting for the fact that they will get money from every VR
       | game sold for this thing. Otherwise I worry the market for it
       | just won't make sense for developers (which then hurts anyone
       | that bought it).
       | 
       | Also the lack of PSVR1 support would make me seriously question
       | buying this anyways, why invest in a platform if they are just
       | going to make it so you can't play any of your games later (or
       | requires you keep multiple VR's around)
        
         | tantalor wrote:
         | > attached to your PC
         | 
         | PC is a closed ecosystem. Not everyone has PC.
        
         | NineStarPoint wrote:
         | Large contingent of people who don't have a PC strong enough to
         | run VR but do have a PS5. Whether the PS5 will get a lively
         | enough VR ecosystem going on it is still a concern though yeah.
        
           | nerdjon wrote:
           | I know there is a market for it, I just question if there is
           | enough of a market given the price point they are going for.
           | 
           | I guess that is what I don't understand. Yeah the tech is
           | great but if its too expensive that enough people can't
           | afford it than is there going to be enough people to justify
           | developers to work on it.
           | 
           | I just worry that this is seeing Sony being cocky again like
           | they were with the PS3. Overestimating the market and putting
           | out products that are more expensive with the justification
           | that they are powerful.
        
         | Tiktaalik wrote:
         | What we know from decades of console industry winners and
         | losers is that content and especially exclusive content is
         | everything.
         | 
         | It really doesn't matter if hardware is open or closed. What
         | matters is whether there is fun compelling games.
         | 
         | PS VR has been a success because the quality games have been
         | there, and others have struggled because of their lack of
         | quality games.
         | 
         | We can expect that given Playstation's deep history in games
         | and exclusive in house studios that they will have content for
         | the platform. It's risky to expect the same of any other
         | hardware maker without inhouse studios and decades old industry
         | relationships and partnerships.
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | This seems like half the price of a comparable PCVR setup,
         | including the PS5 to run it. And there's probably still not
         | much crossover between the console crowd and the PC gamer
         | crowd.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | My guess is it's the same reasons that drive people towards
         | gaming consoles in the first place, mostly convenience.
        
         | xvello wrote:
         | > I don't understand the market for a device like this at this
         | cost.
         | 
         | I am a software engineer and OSS enthusiast, I operate servers
         | and my home automation system, but I gave up on PC gaming years
         | ago. After a long day of fighting distributed systems, I want
         | my gaming rig to just work. That's why I bought the first PSVR:
         | because Sony offers me a system where I don't have to fiddle
         | with drivers and windows updates.
         | 
         | Price is too steep indeed, but it will go down as the
         | production ramps up. PSVR launched at 400EUR in 2016, and I
         | bought it at 200EUR two years after that.
        
           | sylens wrote:
           | I would love to go with a console as my main platform, I just
           | always have the feeling that Sony is ripping me off with the
           | cost of games and PS Plus. Do you find it evens out in the
           | long run with the larger upfront cost of a gaming PC?
        
             | wara23arish wrote:
             | I have both PS5 and a "gaming pc". I find myself using PS5
             | for most of my games except for stuff like Civ and CK3.
             | 
             | Also find PS plus to be fantastic, i barely buy games
             | anymore individually.
        
             | xvello wrote:
             | I only play single-player and couch co-op games, so I don't
             | pay for PS Plus. As for the game prices, sales are less
             | massive than on Steam but still frequent. Just create your
             | watchlist on psprices.com.
             | 
             | The only thing I really miss is modding, especially
             | quality-of-life improvement mods.
        
             | ectospheno wrote:
             | The hidden cost of a gaming pc is the time you inevitably
             | spend keeping it working. The older I get the more I get
             | annoyed by things that waste what time I have left. I game
             | exclusively on my PS5 and XBox Series X and have no regrets
             | about doing so. Every time I spend a few bucks more than I
             | would on pc I just think about how much time I'm not
             | wasting getting it to work at all. YMMV.
        
           | iLoveOncall wrote:
           | Then get a Quest 2.
           | 
           | I could get behind your argument if there was no offering
           | that doesn't require a gaming computer, but it's not the
           | case.
        
       | groffee wrote:
       | So hyped for this, day one purchase for me.
        
       | jdprgm wrote:
       | Biggest downside here is probably sticking with Fresnel lenses,
       | can't even really call it gen 2 with that decision. Probably had
       | to be made to meet the price point I guess unfortunately.
       | 
       | Should be a pretty clear screen though with the limited FOV and
       | nice contrast. Haven't used PSVR1 myself and just checked
       | resolution and WOW didn't realize how trash it was merely 960 x
       | 1,080 that's lower than CV1! For anyone primarily experienced
       | with PSVR ecosystem this should be a massive step up.
       | 
       | Pimax just announced Crystal yesterday as well so glad to see
       | movement in the VR space.
        
         | augasur wrote:
         | I have played a multiple times with a PSVR1, and in my opinion,
         | it was one of the best optimized VR systems I have tried.
         | Everything felt smooth, fully optimized, did not feel dizzy.
         | The low resolution was the problem for me, I really loved it.
         | Now waiting to test out PSVR2 when it launches.
        
       | VLM wrote:
       | The problem I see is my PSVR1 is dusty because I'm bored with it.
       | It was a cool experience and battlezone was fun but maybe 20
       | hours in and I'm done and its dusty.
       | 
       | The marketing solution to the PSVR1 being boring is "its got more
       | pixels and no backwards compatibility". That message is just not
       | going to sell to upgraders like me. "It costs more" is not going
       | to sell to people who couldn't/wouldn't pay for the PSVR1. So
       | who's supposed to buy this, exactly? People who collect VR
       | headsets is not a large enough market.
       | 
       | The technology reminds me of the wii fit balance board. If you
       | can't have 20 hours of fun with that, there's something wrong
       | with you. Likewise, if you're having more than 20 hours of fun, I
       | have to ask "how?" Its about as many hours of fun as a VR
       | headset, but costs less. The balance board is just a few years
       | older than VR headsets and nobody sells that type of tech
       | anymore. That is the future of VR headsets.
       | 
       | I think this is a valid HN story in the sense of being an object
       | lesson in how not to sell something technological. Your marketing
       | message needs to be aimed at a market and has to have a message,
       | you can't just leave those two parts out and expect product
       | success.
        
         | jonny_eh wrote:
         | My experience is identical to yours. I loved the PSVR but sold
         | it 6 months later due to lack of use. Half-Life Alyx was the
         | only game to come out for VR that I wish I could check out. But
         | even that isn't worth the cost and space investment in a new
         | headset.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | 6 years is a lifetime in technology and a lot has changed.
         | There are new use cases for VR since you last tried it.
         | 
         | 1. Fitness - It's just a lot more fun to do when you're boxing
         | in a Mike Tyson's Punch Out clone or slicing blocks with
         | lightsabers. There are also VR specific fitness apps have a lot
         | more variety than normal cardio exercises. In my case, I've
         | lost 20 lbs to date... playing VR video games
         | 
         | 2. Social - For friends and family who are hundreds or
         | thousands of miles away, XR becomes a platform for hanging out
         | with them while doing activities like ping pong, bowling, table
         | top games, mini golf, and more. It has way more immersion and
         | presence than a Zoom, Facetime, or normal phone call.
         | 
         | I would try it out again one day before rushing to judgement.
         | At least you tried it the first time though unlike everyone
         | else.
        
       | cassianoleal wrote:
       | Link to the official blog post:
       | https://blog.playstation.com/2022/11/02/playstation-vr2-laun...
        
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