[HN Gopher] AskEdith - Natural language interface for databases
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       AskEdith - Natural language interface for databases
        
       Author : WallyFunk
       Score  : 80 points
       Date   : 2022-11-02 13:25 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.askedith.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.askedith.ai)
        
       | garciasn wrote:
       | You have an unnecessary apostrophe after "CSV" on your Free tier
       | pricing box. Apostrophes do not make initialisms plural.
        
         | glomgril wrote:
         | TBH I disagree. In some fields it has become something of a
         | convention, especially when the thing you're pluralizing is a
         | variable or some other mathematical expression. For example I
         | might write $x_1,x_2,...,x_n$, and then refer to the sequence
         | as "the $x$'s". Happens all the time in professional journals
         | by authors who know very well what the prescriptive rules of
         | written English are. It is just easier to read this way.
        
           | aliqot wrote:
           | > TBH I disagree.
           | 
           | You may, but it's incorrect. Try to tell o365 about the
           | Oxford comma, I tried, it's futile. Best to assimilate and
           | maintain pay-stream.
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | Its defiantly against the do's and donts of English, yes,
         | apostrophe's seem to be the most mistaked parts of English.
         | Also my favorite cigarette's are Marlboro 100's.
        
       | kierenj wrote:
       | Echoing others' experiences, really difficult to try the demo. I
       | saw data - I typed a question, hit the button. Nothing. I need to
       | hit Enter. Do so. Wait for like a minute - progress bar appears?
       | Then a message about datasets. Huh? ..
        
       | Rygian wrote:
       | I'm trying out the demo with "What is the most typical experience
       | level for people whose job is analyst?" and just get a half-way
       | full red progress bar as a reply.
        
         | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
         | I tried it with "which region has the largest salary
         | disparity?" and got the same red bar.
        
         | jrdzha wrote:
         | Demo is broken but it works once you login to a free acc
        
       | fny wrote:
       | I'm looking forward to the day when there's an open source
       | version of these models. I am not interested in making a
       | gazillion API calls to a third-party vendor about how I'm
       | introspecting into my own reports.
        
       | carbocation wrote:
       | Now I can stop tweaking my SQL query and start tweaking my
       | prompt.
       | 
       | Less cynically but more critically, you'll still have to review
       | the SQL generated by this program. Unlike reviewing art, that
       | review will be difficult, because reviewing SQL is not easy
       | (unless the query was trivial to begin with).
        
         | petercooper wrote:
         | Then you can buy the upgrade that will automatically create
         | dummy data and write the tests for the query you just created
         | ;-)
        
       | yrgulation wrote:
       | I can see this being useful for managers or marketing people but
       | not really for engineers.
        
       | thatwasunusual wrote:
       | Also, it doesn't work.
       | 
       | I uploaded a very simple dataset in a CSV format, and not even
       | the suggested questions after the upload works.
        
         | jrdzha wrote:
         | Demo is broken but it works once you login to a free acc
        
           | thatwasunusual wrote:
           | > Demo is broken
           | 
           | This is a deal breaker for me at least; if a service can't
           | handle a predicted load from HN and friends, it's not
           | trustworthy.
           | 
           | It's like buying a car: if I can't start it before a test-
           | drive, I would never buy it.
        
             | jrdzha wrote:
             | I hear you, we're fixing it right now.
             | 
             | disclaimer: I worked on AskEdith
        
               | mwigdahl wrote:
               | It also prompts to make an account (and won't respond to
               | the demo submit request) after what, 3 tries on the demo?
               | This not really enough to determine whether it has the
               | horsepower to do anything significant. Requiring signup
               | to do even basic exploration of capability turns me away.
        
               | thatwasunusual wrote:
               | I don't think you understand.
               | 
               | As long as this is an SaaS, it's useless; no one should
               | depend on a third-party provider to create VIEWs for
               | them. "Oh, we can't deliver tax reports to the government
               | because AskEdith is down" doesn't work as an excuse, at
               | least not here in Norway.
        
       | oa335 wrote:
       | Wow very cool. Would love to see it interface with Bigquery or
       | other data lakes so it could grab the schemas and structure query
        
       | pokstad wrote:
       | Where's the anti-ORM crowd to defeat this idea?
        
         | thatwasunusual wrote:
         | I don't think I'm very anti-ORM, but I prefer using SQL where I
         | feel for it. ORM is usually an overhead, and a bad
         | implementation can make the ORM useless.
         | 
         | To answer your question: do we need to learn a QRM now? :) I
         | think we are a few years away from that, ref. "what was the
         | average salary for people earning more than X USD in 2019,
         | adjusted for the purchasing power each person lives in?"
         | 
         | This is an example of a third-party data set that you don't
         | want to be part of your core application, but maybe for a
         | reporting system that talks to both your core application and
         | some other third-party sources.
         | 
         | So. I'll stay with SQL until further notice, because a) this
         | doesn't work, and b) third party data needs careful handling.
        
         | Quarrelsome wrote:
         | When you can only produce SQL via natural language prompts then
         | how are you going to be able to troubleshoot your queries?
        
         | alberth wrote:
         | Silly question, but are you suggesting that in code you'd put:
         | 
         | sql_ai = "which customer spent the most with us in the past 12
         | months?";
        
           | yrgulation wrote:
           | Shh dont give them ideas. The PHP crowd will absolutely try
           | to adopt it.
        
         | pkulak wrote:
         | This seems so far in the other direction that the same
         | criticisms no longer apply. It would be like being against LCD
         | screens in cars, and then complaining that Boeing's new 787 has
         | flight displays.
        
       | spapas82 wrote:
       | I would really like to see how this would work against non
       | trivial data (and queries)
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Are there any DB or cloud vendors already offering natural-
       | language to SQL capabilities? I'd be a bit surprised if Google or
       | AWS doesn't have it, given their deep expertise in NLP.
        
       | zasdffaa wrote:
       | The website's awful. There's no user testing on it - why do I
       | have a 20 sec progress bar before it tells me I need to select
       | files - where from? Drag from where? What format?
       | 
       | Found the datasets - what is AAPL.csv? What do the columns mean?
       | How do I use them to query on? The UI has been designed by
       | someone who doesn't know anything about UIs. Like, anything.
       | 
       | Added: "AskEdith translates English to SQL to help you save 1
       | hour every day". Well that's a bloody strong claim. Wonder if
       | it's justified.
        
       | iLoveOncall wrote:
       | This is one of those products where it sounds cool but it will
       | only work for very simple queries, where writing the prompt and
       | reviewing the generated SQL query takes as much time as writing
       | the SQL query from scratch.
       | 
       | Also, even the SQL shown in the EXAMPLES is bad :|
       | 
       | I guess it's true, you won't be writing SQL from scratch, you'll
       | be writing SQL from very broken SQL.
        
         | zasdffaa wrote:
         | Can't see the top sql because it keeps flipping over, WTF.
         | 
         | Where are these examples?
        
           | iLoveOncall wrote:
           | I copy-pasted them to be able to read them better.
           | SELECT             first_name,             last_name,
           | (                 SELECT MAX(order_total)
           | FROM orders                 WHERE customer.id =
           | orders.customer_id             ) AS maximum_order
           | FROM customers;
           | 
           | There's this one to get the maximum order amount for each
           | customer that struck me, and another similar one.
           | 
           | Instead of doing a JOIN they do this weird subquery. You can
           | clearly see that it's the work of an AI and how this AI works
           | (putting together lego pieces which are subqueries), because
           | nobody would be writing this query like that.
        
             | datalopers wrote:
             | Plenty of people write SQL like that. It's usually Python
             | devs who are overly fascinated with shitty AI.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | I've seen it a lot by older SQL devs or in enterprise
               | places with ossified standard patterns. Lots of RDBMS's
               | historically had quirks and a lot of workarounds became
               | cargo cult practices that often got culturally
               | transmitted to the communities of other DBMSs and/or
               | survived beyond the problem they were meant to
               | workaround.
        
               | zasdffaa wrote:
               | Am curious. How would you write it 'properly'? Other
               | (good) alternative is                  with toporders as
               | (           select max(order_total) as maxOT, customer_id
               | from orders           group by customer_id        )
               | select last_name, maxOT        from customers join
               | toporders         on ...
               | 
               | What would you suggest?
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | SELECT          customer.first_name,
               | customer.last_name,          max(order.order_total) as
               | maximum_order       FROM          customers customer
               | INNER JOIN         orders order       ON (customer.id =
               | order.customer_id)       GROUP BY         customer.id
        
               | zasdffaa wrote:
               | I don't think subqueries are so bad - at least they're
               | clear, and if fast, that's surely problem solved. IME
               | they are clearer and often faster, so overall better. I
               | know purists don't like them but I do.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | datalopers wrote:
               | Correlated subqueries run N times, once for each outer
               | row. Your solution (assuming the database supports
               | predicate pushdown) is far better.
        
             | srhtftw wrote:
             | Well, this isn't that bad on a real database which will
             | know to decorrelate[1] the subquery but a GPT based AI
             | probably won't advise you to do an EXPLAIN and check the
             | plan.
             | 
             | 1- e.g as Jamie explains here https://www.scattered-
             | thoughts.net/writing/materialize-decor...
        
               | zasdffaa wrote:
               | Now this is a useful answer, and perhaps the best in the
               | thread, thanks
        
             | zasdffaa wrote:
             | In fairness there's nothing weird about that, it being just
             | a typical correlated subquery. I'd quite possibly do it
             | that way.
        
               | iLoveOncall wrote:
               | Right, weird wasn't the right word. It's bad (here, not
               | always).
        
               | zasdffaa wrote:
               | WHY bad? HOW am I supposed to learn anything from "It's
               | bad"
        
       | mjirv wrote:
       | Awesome! I suspect that natural language will soon be the default
       | way we interact with data, so I'm excited to see this. There's
       | just such a clear need for something like this and the technology
       | is finally ready.
       | 
       | (Full disclosure: I have a side project exploring something
       | similar. Demo: https://hermes-odmf.onrender.com. See the Metrics
       | Catalog link for available metrics; all data is from 2018)
        
         | michaelmior wrote:
         | I'd really like to see studies comparing the accuracy of
         | queries with such a system compared to manually written ones to
         | know if I can actually trust it. Natural language is a great
         | way to interact with data, but only if the intent is correctly
         | translated. With AskEdith you at least get a SQL query that can
         | potentially be reviewed for correctness.
        
           | mjirv wrote:
           | Yes, this is a great point. To a first approximation, whether
           | users trust the results is the _only_ thing that matters for
           | this kind of tech, imo.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-02 23:01 UTC)