[HN Gopher] Show HN: I made an offline-ready hiking trail compan...
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Show HN: I made an offline-ready hiking trail companion app
Hi HN! This is a trail companion web app (think AllTrails) I hacked
together in a couple weeks time. I was inspired to create this
project while training for an extended backpacking trip. My
motivation was to create a UI tailored exactly to my liking, and to
be able to track my progress along the trail without draining my
battery. I also wanted to experiment with PWA technologies. I
successfully used it on my five day adventure along the Knobstone
Trail in southern Indiana, and even though it's web-based it hardly
consumed any battery life on my old first-gen Pixel XL. It's set
up currently to support a single trail, where the trail and trail
markers are deployed with the rest of the app. So it's single-use
in that way. For future trips, I can simply swap out the GPX files
and deploy. I am releasing it with an open source license in case
anyone wants to use it as a boilerplate to create their own.
Author : jameal
Score : 344 points
Date : 2022-11-01 13:25 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| mattfrommars wrote:
| Woah, nice! I recently got interest to get into hiking and
| downloaded current apps for it. One of the 'business model' for
| current top hiking app - AllTrails - is to get offline coverage.
| Awesome to see an implementation of such feature here.
| therealdrag0 wrote:
| I've used and tried a lot of hiking apps. And tbh the Organic
| Maps (fork of maps.me) is quite good for hikes even though it's
| "meant" for more urban stuff and is totally free to download
| huge regions of terrain, and it has good route finding along
| trails (crazy how all apps don't have this even some highly
| rated ones.).
| throwaway1777 wrote:
| Also use organic maps. Works great for hikes in my
| experience.
| jameal wrote:
| Thanks! It relies heavily on open source libraries and open map
| tile providers.
|
| A service worker handles caching of most of the application
| resources, while a Leaflet plugin[1] handles the actual tiles.
| You can see it in action by loading it on your phone, switching
| to landscape mode and pressing the save icon () that appears.
| It will cache everything in view, for certain zoom levels
| (configurable). I believe the plugin saves to session storage.
|
| [1]: https://allartk.github.io/leaflet.offline/
| kathysgeek wrote:
| Very nice. I really appreciate the simple implementation and plan
| to load it with some of my favorite Kentucky hikes.
|
| I was not aware of the Knobstone trail even though I live
| relatively close in Lexington, KY. We'll be hitting it for some
| day hikes this winter.
|
| Thanks!
| jameal wrote:
| Cool! Glad to see some folks planning to give this little app
| legs of their own.
|
| You will have some great views of the KT during winter for
| sure. FYI the stretch between Leota and Elk Creek is brutal.
| mradek wrote:
| That's so cool!
|
| Hey if you don't mind since you built it, what are the advantages
| of PWA vs native/flutter mobile app? I've been messing with
| SwiftUI/Kotlin and recently switched to flutter earlier this
| year.
|
| Thanks and congrats !
| jameal wrote:
| Thanks! I've only used React Native so I'm not sure. I can say
| that with a PWA you're dealing with the overhead of the web
| browser. That has its tradeoffs. For simple UIs a PWA is a
| great option. When you have more complex UIs or need access to
| APIs that aren't available on the web then native is probably a
| better route. Performance is probably always going to be better
| on native too.
| mradek wrote:
| Thank you!
| jonah wrote:
| Google had an app called MyTracks[1] a while ago which was a very
| nice and simple way to have an offline google map and record your
| tracks. They deprecated and open-sourced it. Apparently, it's
| living on as OpenTracks[2].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyTracks
|
| [2] https://opentracksapp.com/
| throwamon wrote:
| Nice. Now I'm curious, is there a list somewhere of other
| projects Google open sourced after abandoning?
| robbyking wrote:
| Thank you so much for this! I remember loving this app years
| ago, but lost track of it during one of my upgrades.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| Eumenes wrote:
| Nice project, sleek UI and performant. Didn't realize Indiana had
| hills like that!
| jameal wrote:
| Thanks! Yep the southern end has some good hills. I think even
| many people who grew up here aren't aware of this trail but it
| is a good one with some beautiful views. It's part of a larger
| 160 mile trail system that many people in the region use to
| train for the Appalachian Trail.
| kingsloi wrote:
| Awesome work fellow Indianian! The northern end has some good
| hills too, albeit made of sand... but does have some
| beautiful views, too! A lot of people in NWI/Chicagoland
| don't know Gary has National Park access, beaches, trails,
| etc. Indiana's more than just corn (but it also is just a lot
| of corn)
| jameal wrote:
| Thanks! I've been to the dunes a couple times but I'd
| definitely like to explore more up there. By the way, how
| the heck did you end up in Gary from Britain?
| folli wrote:
| While we're on the Hiking topic: I recently created a web app in
| my free time to visualize GPS tracking files in a 3D terrain.
|
| You can upload your GPX or FIT files and it generates the 3D
| Terrain using Babylon.js
|
| It's called https://cubetrek.com
| tppiotrowski wrote:
| How do you fund your maptiler bill? I've used maptiler in the
| past and found that using Mapbox GL JS with 50,000 map loads
| free-tier was significantly cheaper for me.
|
| But your map is much smaller and users likely don't pan/zoom it
| very much.
| folli wrote:
| That's easy: just don't have too many users ;)
|
| But I understand that this will be difficult in your case, as
| you're running awesome shademap.
| tppiotrowski wrote:
| Ah hey! Should've looked in your profile. We've definitely
| crossed paths before. Congratulation on another fun project
| and I hope it scales slowly :)
| jameal wrote:
| Nice app! I was definitely motivated to make this so I could
| get a better idea of the climbs ahead of me on our trip. Your
| app would have been useful.
|
| I uploaded my GPX and it made these hills that I struggled
| through look like nothing! I'm not sure why they look so small,
| but maybe it's just because they are :)
| https://cubetrek.com/view/8081
| [deleted]
| tppiotrowski wrote:
| Nice app. Can you explain why you chose ArgGis as your tile
| provider [1]? A lot of the struggle of making a public map app is
| that map tiles are hard to host and not cheap to buy at scale.
|
| [1] https://github.com/jamealg/KT-
| companion/blob/master/scripts/...
| jameal wrote:
| I chose them because I liked the way they looked most,
| especially zoomed in. I hadn't really considered how they would
| scale but that's certainly an important point for anyone
| creating something for wider adoption.
| DMell wrote:
| This is fantastic. I currently live in Rocky Mountain National
| Park where I climb, hike, and ski nearly every day - my partner
| also works for the Park Service. We have been using Gaia and love
| it but your UI looks fantastic and I'll get it installed.
|
| It reminds me of a very simplified interface of CalTopo.
|
| One question, are you open to PR's? If so, I'd love to see slope
| angle added into this in the same format for avalanche awareness
| along a trial.
|
| Great work!
| mordechai9000 wrote:
| Have you had any problems using downloaded maps in Gaia when
| there is no service?
| tony_cannistra wrote:
| I work at Gaia, though not on the mobile dev side of things.
| We have an active ticket for this and are currently looking
| into the root cause -- you're not the only one who has
| experienced this issue, although it seems to be sporadic.
| zmj wrote:
| Happy Gaia user here, thanks for your work! The core topo
| functionality works great for me online or offline in RMNP
| and the surrounding area.
|
| One question if you're able to comment - what's up with the
| satellite snow coverage layers? I tried to use those to
| scout for a hike in October, but both most recent and
| cloudless were from 2021.
| tony_cannistra wrote:
| thanks, I am glad to hear it!
|
| I assume you're talking about our "fresh sat" layers --
| in some places the recency of the imagery in those layers
| is unfortunately dependent on some rather stochastic
| factors. These factors are usually (but not always)
| correlated to location on the earth.
|
| We get the latest imagery taken from the satellites
| (Sentinel-2 and Landsat 8/9) nearly as soon as it's
| acquired, and then apply some quality filters to it which
| either accept the imagery for processing or reject it.
| It's entirely possible to get repeatedly unlucky in that
| regard, where for a given location no imagery that passes
| our quality filters has been taken for a long time.
|
| This especially happens a lot near the poles, or in very
| cloudy places.
|
| are you willing to share where you were looking that you
| experienced this issue?
| julienchastang wrote:
| I am glad to have stumbled upon a GaiaGPS developer. I
| would describe myself as a GaiaGPS power user (I have a pro
| subscription) and I have a love / hate relationship with
| the app. My main issue is that bugs and feature requests
| don't get addressed and is starting to have the feel of
| Abandonware. Track cropping still has no undo and recently
| was also buggy -- the crop would not "stick". (I ended up
| hand editing the GeoJSON, something that created its own
| problems.) This is an essential feature that should work
| correctly especially when you drive away without finishing
| the track -- something that I think happens to a lot of
| users. Also, track way points sporadically don't seem to
| "attach" or "anchor" to tracks -- they just end up free-
| floating some of the time. My broader concern is the
| acquisition by Outside Magazine is not going smoothly, they
| are not a tech company and the managers there probably are
| more concerned with the bottom line than maintaining a
| technically viable product.
| DMell wrote:
| >My broader concern is the acquisition by Outside
| Magazine is not going smoothly
|
| I'd be curious to know how this directly impacted Gaia
| development. It's a tool I rely on essentially every day
| in some pretty harsh environments so I second this
| concern.
| tony_cannistra wrote:
| I left a brief note on this in a reply to the parent
| comment, if you're interested.
| kilolima wrote:
| Isn't Gaia's business model to charge for access to the
| maps we've already paid for with our taxes (such as USGS
| topographic quads)? So one shouldn't have stellar
| expectations over their acquisition.
| tony_cannistra wrote:
| > charge for access to the maps we've already paid for
| with our taxes
|
| No one is gate-keeping these taxpayer-funded resources,
| which is sortof what you're implying here. It costs money
| to process, host, and deliver these taxpayer -funded maps
| to people, especially offline.
|
| If you're a legacy user of Gaia, I'd encourage you to
| give the app another shot. Originally Gaia was the best
| way to view USGS quads on your phone. Since then, we've
| invested a ton of resources and engineering into building
| a vector topographic map based in OpenStreetMap, which I
| think is a huge value add for backcountry users.
|
| We give that away for free.
|
| But if all you're looking for is USGS topos, I'd use
| Avenza.
| ftkftk wrote:
| I hadn't tried Gaia before today. Gave it a whirl and
| looks like a great tool for my backpacking trips. I am a
| paper map and compass kinda guy but this seems like a
| convenient addition, especially for trip planning. Mapped
| out the next boy scout troop hike in just a few minutes,
| the way routes snap to hiking trails is really nice.
| Thanks!
| jmtulloss wrote:
| This person has clearly not actually used Gaia in any
| significant capacity and is instead taking cheap shots
| with the hopes of getting upvotes from others that have
| not used Gaia. Gaia is far from perfect, but this
| characterization is so contrived that it can't be taken
| seriously.
| julienchastang wrote:
| In addition to various GIS layers, they also have Nat Geo
| Trails Illustrated maps and IGN maps for France, both of
| which I have found immensely useful.
| tony_cannistra wrote:
| hey, I'm sorry that you've been experiencing that
| behavior, it sounds frustrating. I'm not the best person
| to help you with them, though -- I'm a geospatial data /
| cartography engineer. If you're willing to reach out to
| them, our support team can probably give you a hand, or
| at least document your issue to make it easier for us to
| fix.
|
| w.r.t the acquisition, we've seen some fairly dramatic
| highs and lows. The 20% layoff earlier this year was
| definitely the lowest low, but the whole org was
| affected, not just Gaia. On the flip side, we've been
| working really hard on developing a roadmap that centers
| on stabilising and enhancing the bedrock features that
| our users have come to expect, and that are sometimes
| less than perfect. This is something that Outside PM's
| have been really pushing on. I'm enthusiastic about that
| focus, because it's been sorely needed.
|
| The tl;dr is that the forces that have caused some of the
| user experience challenges of late were in play long
| before the Outside acqusition, and if anything Outside is
| providing the resources necessary for us to commit to
| fixing them.
| carderne wrote:
| I'm a heavy Gaia user, always offline.
|
| I make sure to go on airplane mode and hard-reload the app,
| and it generally works great. If I have week signal, or don't
| reload it, or anything like that, it gets confused and
| constantly freezes.
|
| The offline route creation is very iffy though.
| mikestew wrote:
| Not parent commenter, but use Gaia offline maps on a regular
| basis (at least once a month). I do not recall ever having a
| problem with them. My consistent experience: no cell
| coverage, pull up Gaia, map is displayed.
| DMell wrote:
| I personally have not but I know a couple of individuals that
| have.
| jameal wrote:
| Thanks a lot! I'd love to hear how it goes if you actually use
| it in the wild.
|
| I'm actually using a plugin[1] that handles elevation and slope
| graphing. Adding slope to the graph is as simple as adding a
| line in the configuration.
|
| I only intend this to be a boilerplate for others to start
| their own projects. I'm not sure how much active development
| I'll do on it, but I'm certainly open to PRs that make it
| better.
|
| [1]: https://raruto.github.io/leaflet-elevation/
| [deleted]
| everyone wrote:
| I am looking for a map app for Android atm.. Here is what I asked
| on r/androidapps. Maybe one of ye could recommend something?
|
| Is there a map app that has same satellite imagery as google maps
| but isnt google maps?
|
| I do a good bit of mountaineering. I use 'OSMAND' when driving to
| the parking spot and 'World Topo Map' when hiking on foot. One
| problem with world topo map is that the satellite imagery is not
| great, having the far superior google maps satellite imagery
| would really be beneficial so I could see where small trails are
| relative to me. Unfortunately the google maps Android app itself
| is unusable trash imo. Is there a good app like OSMAND or World
| Topo Map that uses the same satellite imagery as google maps? If
| it also has the option to save the data and work offline that
| would be very useful also. I would pay for an app that fufils
| those requirements np. Thanks!
| tony_cannistra wrote:
| Have you given Gaia GPS a try? I think we satisfy most of your
| requirements. We provide Mapbox satellite imagery, which isn't
| the same as Google's, but it's pretty good.
|
| I work on the maps on that app, so of course you ought to try
| it for yourself rather than believing me.
|
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.trailbehin...
| out_of_protocol wrote:
| OsmAnd can do online map tiles, custom online map tiles,
| caching. Also, can use SQLite map cache, which can be created
| by some other program, e.g. SAS.Planet
| aeharding wrote:
| Nice. I wish there was some web API to record geolocation in the
| background over time. I understand the privacy implications, but
| if it was an API only available to installed PWAs, and with an
| indicator similar to native apps when recording geolocation in
| the background, I feel like that would be acceptable.
| jameal wrote:
| Is this not possible with a service worker? That's too bad. I
| haven't thought much about the privacy implication but I figure
| if you go through the trouble of installing a PWA and granting
| it access to your location then why not? What you suggested
| seems like a good route.
| teleclimber wrote:
| I was wondering as well so I looked it up real quick. Here
| are some relevant issues:
|
| - https://github.com/w3c/ServiceWorker/issues/745 -
| https://github.com/w3c/geolocation-sensor/issues/22
| uri4 wrote:
| What I want:
|
| - I select trail
|
| - App generates map PDF with numbered markers (milestones)
|
| - phone has GPS active, but only shows single number, milestone.
| Preferably on lock screen, without unlocking phone.
|
| Distraction free, tiny drain on battery.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Might as well use a standalone GPS device?
| palotasb wrote:
| I would also recommend checking out OsmAnd Maps in this space. I
| use it both for hiking and cycling. I love the UI
| customizability, for example being able to overlay a satellite
| map on top of a trail map and having a slider to adjust opacity -
| this really helps with orientation. On the cycling front it is
| the only app I know that has a sensible route planner and turn-
| by-turn navigation. It's open source too, and based on OSM data:
| https://github.com/osmandapp/ (No affiliation, just started using
| it after Gaia GPS lost my data.)
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| It's pretty nice and what I use because all the other apps like
| Gaia and Wikiloc are so extremely commercialised. When I tried
| both of them out, neither had a way to pay without having an
| android with a google account which I don't (I use degoogled
| android). And GaiaGPS was taken over by some other company that
| started monetising it more.
|
| I don't mind paying for an app, I paid for some others outside
| of the Google store (nine folders and cryptomator) but many
| don't bother to offer this option.
|
| But I don't think OsmAnd is great for viewing elevation
| profiles of routes. It makes a little elevation graph below the
| calculated route, but it's really hard to see where this maps
| out to hard parts on the actual map.
| palotasb wrote:
| For mapping out the hard parts, there's a separate "plugin"
| that you can enable to turn on contour lines and hill shading
| or slope map an overlay on the main map
| https://osmand.net/docs/user/plugins/contour-lines
| [deleted]
| la_fayette wrote:
| This is really cool! The app has all important features one
| needs!
|
| Since the UI/display has a major impact on battery, it would be
| nice to have a dark stylesheet and map style.
|
| Regarding location tracking in the background, this is not
| working inside web browsers. Even for Android native apps a lot
| of user actions are required in order to make background location
| tracking possible. Moreover google play might not approve an app,
| which has background location tracking [1].
|
| [1] https://developer.android.com/training/location/background
| jameal wrote:
| That would be great! I wonder if there are any dark mode
| tilesets for maps... not sure how that would affect legibility
| during the day but it would be perfect for evening at camp, for
| previewing the next day's hike.
|
| Thanks for the link. It's too bad but it makes sense for
| privacy reasons.
| site-packages1 wrote:
| This is cool. My single favorite app I. This category is MapOut.
| Seems to be pretty similar, 100% offline topo maps with
| additional things like route planning, detailed trails, GPS, etc.
| The killer features for me are the detailed offline mode so it
| works great no matter my reception, and that I can email GPX or
| any other export format and within 30 secs the route I emailed is
| showing up on my app. Really makes it easy to route create on a
| computer and send to MapOut with no fuss.
|
| I have no affiliation, but it's the only paid app I appreciate as
| much as I do.
|
| https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mapout/id477094081
| [deleted]
| jameal wrote:
| This is great! Mine is definitely more of a proof of concept
| that probably shouldn't be used outside of well-marked trails.
| This looks like the alternative I've been looking for. Do you
| know if it requires registering an account to use?
| site-packages1 wrote:
| I just checked my app, it does not. Seems like an account is
| required to email upload routes maybe? Which would make
| sense. But seems like no login needed for most functionality.
| solardev wrote:
| Have you tried similar apps like Backcountry Navigator or
| Avenza? (Just wondering how they compare)
| site-packages1 wrote:
| I have, they're both good. I really do spend many many hours
| on trails every year, in the mountains, in all seasons.
| MapOut is a clear winner for me, the interface is the most
| intuitive for all the basics and I'm always stumbling on new,
| useful features.
|
| An example of something I stumbled onto: have a route open on
| your screen, zoom into some portion of the route, tap the
| screen and it adds markers on the route telling you the
| distance of the segment on screen, which persist when zoomed
| out. This seems silly, but highly useful way for me to zoom
| to where my location is (say) at bottom of screen and next
| route milestone is at top, and getting the exact distance to
| go between current location and desired location on the fly.
| setgree wrote:
| Looks very nice!
|
| Do you know https://faroutguides.com/ (formerly GutHook)? They
| have offline-friendly paid maps of a lot of the largest scenic
| trails in America.
|
| I hiked the Appalachian Trail last year and FarOut was standard
| kit.
| cypherpunks01 wrote:
| Yes, definitely the large majority of AT hikers I've met rely
| very heavily on the GutHook/FarOut app as their primary nav
| tool. It has pretty great offline features in my experience,
| and has a huge variety of trail maps for purchase, with all the
| critical waypoints and resources listed. I've used it for
| customizing hikes, but I think much less customizable than OP,
| it's a bit more of a plug-and-play experience.
| jameal wrote:
| Not until now. Thanks for sharing. So many more apps available
| than I realized. Someone should compile a list!
| brunoqc wrote:
| We need an open source version of AllTrails using openstreetmap.
| With comments, since they are useful to know if the trails are
| still usable (some are now 4 seasons, some are outdated).
| [deleted]
| timzaman wrote:
| Have been looking for something like this! Alltrails and many
| other products (even paid Pro, which i have) is total garbage.
| There is a huge market for a great offline-first hiking/exploring
| maps app.
| foobarbecue wrote:
| I had a lot of success with Backcountry Navigator. Used it a
| something like 2010 to 2018 but haven't done real hiking
| recently. It was great for downloading topos for offline use
| (you could be very particular about what subsets of what maps
| you were downloading, and lots of map types were available) and
| for GPS tracking on the maps. One thing that was great was the
| built in GPS satellite view / compass that you could use to
| troubleshoot when you weren't getting good GPS.
| tverbeure wrote:
| My personal favorite is MapOut for the iPhone.
|
| Like many other apps, it has off-line vector map support, but
| it has the unique feature to create routes interactively by
| swiping your finger over the trail that you want to ride, and
| it will immediately build an elevation profile.
|
| It's incredibly useful when you didn't plan your route up front
| and you want to get an idea about what's ahead.
| jeromegv wrote:
| As an occasional user of Alltrails, what is total garbage about
| it? Just curious. I don't find it as bad but perhaps I'm not
| using it for the same uses cases as you are.
|
| Found it useful going to Yosemite and planning some hikes over
| there, especially to know recent comments.
| Reubachi wrote:
| Vtriol against AT is because it is not a trail finding,
| offline gps, or fitness app. It is a "lifestyle" application
| designed to drive pro subscriptions. Additionally, paywalling
| offline map access is downright evil.
|
| the feature of all trails pro is it's unique maps you can
| download for data-less access. This ^ should be illegal.
| Imagine you're an under-equipped tourist from boston who
| tries to hike Mount Washington, thinking your application
| surely will work offline? Nope, you gotta pay for that, and
| you don't know until you're lost.
| [deleted]
| dhdhhdd wrote:
| I recommend Hiking project
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Yeah Wikiloc started out great too (especially here in
| Barcelona where they're from) but became way too commercial
| very quickly.
|
| Everything is online so they can make sure you've paid for it.
| These things all start out great but as soon as they take off
| the monetisation becomes priority #1 and the user #2 and of
| course they die off again.
| atourgates wrote:
| There are a couple of apps that are very good in their own
| right, but not quite what hikers need.
|
| TrailForks[1] is in many ways the ideal app for mountain
| biking, and a great example of what a "trail recommendation"
| app for hikers should be. It combines the best trail data with
| easy navigation, planning and routing. What's really unique
| about it is that they got buy-in from a huge number of regional
| trail organizations and land managers, so it's frequently
| updated and generally quite accurate.
|
| When you're riding in an area you're unfamiliar with, it's
| really easy to put together a good route, read reviews from
| other users and check out trail conditions.
|
| Gaia GPS[2] is probably the best outdoor mapping app. It
| doesn't have social functions or trail recommendations, but you
| can grab layers from just about everywhere, from USGS topo
| maps, to forest service maps, specialty layers and more. It's
| great at tracking where you've been, planning routes based on
| map data and making it hard to get lost while you're out there.
|
| I think the ultimate hiking app would be some combination of
| "Trailforks but for hiking" and Gaia.
|
| One disclaimer about those apps, they were both recently
| acquired by Outside Inc., so far they haven't been ruined, but
| I (and other dedicated users) are worried that corporate
| ownership won't be good for either app/community.
|
| [1] https://www.trailforks.com/
|
| [2] https://www.gaiagps.com/
| jq-r wrote:
| Just a note about Trailforks. It was introduced as a
| crowdsourced, free application/service which was lacking
| data, but had a huge audience. So people little by little put
| a lot of riding data in it (trails, routes, media, info etc),
| the word spread, and over couple of years it turned out to be
| pretty much the best trail riding/mapping app. And that was
| mostly because of the data, not the app itself, because it
| was frankly not very good UI-wise.
|
| The the other shoe dropped. They locked the data and the app
| behind a subscription service, and not long after that,
| they've bundled some related web sites with it and sold it to
| off to some bigger company for quite a nice sum from what
| I've heard.
|
| My point being, they knew about the subscription/monetization
| since the beginning but "forgot" to mention it (for obvious
| reasons). Classic bait and switch tactic. My riding buddies
| and me spent dozens of hours (some much more) mapping our
| region and added hundreds of trails and other info "for the
| good of everyone", just to get it locked away by them. I'm
| wiser after that, but this is definitely an example how to
| destroy a good will of a community.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| How are Alltrails or Backcountry Pro garbage? I use them almost
| exclusively offline, and both of them offer far better
| functionality for less battery usage than the linked PWA.
| karaterobot wrote:
| I appreciate that you can scrub through the elevation chart to
| show the corresponding location on the map. Not every hiking app
| does this, unfortunately!
| screye wrote:
| This is really good.
|
| I am personally a big fan of Alltrails and their pro-subscription
| (with offline maps), but it is huge achievement to string this
| together in a couple of weeks.
| [deleted]
| dontbenebby wrote:
| Thank for this, that's a good design decision.
| BTBurke wrote:
| This is great. I've been working on an adventure motorcycling
| trip planning app which has similar requirements of being able to
| work offline as you ride your preplanned trip.
|
| Yours is a good example of what can be done by keeping it simple
| and not getting wrapped around the axle with complicated
| frameworks.
|
| It makes me regret all the time I've spent trying to figure out
| the absolute best tech stack to use rather than just working on
| finishing the damn thing.
| pointpth wrote:
| would love to stay up to date on this
| jameal wrote:
| I know that pain. It helped that I had a two week time
| constraint! I really wanted to use Svelte, but I found it
| nearly impossible to use without a build script.
| mrg2k8 wrote:
| I've extensively used Osmand off-line during my overlanding
| trips, from Cape Town to Europe across west Africa and from
| Czechia to Mongolia. Why reinvent the wheel?
| usrusr wrote:
| In my case, looking at a very similar set of requirements for
| a project yet to be started, a target audience that includes
| both Android and iOS and people who might be reluctant to
| install an app (but should have the option to "offlinify" the
| website they use, perfect match for PWA)
| BTBurke wrote:
| Everything has been done at least once. If we don't try to
| improve on what's out there, no progress will ever made.
|
| I think Osmand works fine for some things but really sucks
| for planning long, time-bound trips, which is my use case.
| sdfhbdf wrote:
| Pretty cool.
|
| For uses like that I use Mapy.cz app which uses OSM and contrary
| to the name works all over the world. It's very good for trail
| hiking although I haven't used it in US, it's probably as good as
| OSM data.
| jameal wrote:
| This looks good. Does it work as a web app? There are
| apparently many more alternatives to AllTrails and
| HikingProject that I wasn't aware of.
| sdfhbdf wrote:
| I used it both as a mobile app and a web app and it works
| great in both versions.
|
| Notable about Mapy.cz:
|
| - Offline support is really nice, you download specific
| regions you're interested in.
|
| - There is a really cool option to create a "Trip in the
| area". You pick a starting point and it does a loop of a set
| length and comes back to the same point. See
| https://napoveda.seznam.cz/en/maps/route-planner/circuit-
| rou...
|
| - It's backed by, what seems to be, a Czech IT giant -
| Seznam.
| folli wrote:
| Very nice work! Sleek interface. I'll need to field test it soon
| ;)
|
| Have you by any chance also evaluated MapLibre
| (https://maplibre.org/) as an alternative to Leaflet. I'm just
| wondering if anyone has any insights on how they compare. I use
| MapLibre for one of my side-projects [1].
|
| What are you using as source for height data (I see the curve
| colors represent the altitude). I've noticed that one of the most
| commonly used datasets
| [SRTM](https://lpdaac.usgs.gov/products/srtmgl1v003/) has some
| deviation compared to OSM data in high latitudes. E.g. some peak
| locations from OSM don't match to the contour lines from SRTM.
| But I have never found any further infos about this.
|
| [1] https://cubetrek.com
| jameal wrote:
| I haven't tried MapLibre. I'm learning that there are lots of
| alternatives to Google Maps and Mapbox which I love to see.
|
| I learned of Leaflet through GPS Visualizer[1]. It's an
| excellent resource. They also have a tool that will augment
| your GPX file with elevation data[2], though I'm not sure what
| source they use. According to their site:
|
| > Complete copies of the SRTM3 and USGS NED databases, as well
| as a large number of SRTM1 and ASTER tiles, are stored on GPS
| Visualizer's server`
|
| One thing I learned through this project is that elevation and
| distance data are all over the place depending on what source
| you're pulling from.
|
| [1]: https://gpsvisualizer.com/ [2]:
| https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/elevation
| zach_garwood wrote:
| Can you recommend any resources for setting up the service
| workers and manifest for a PWA?
| jameal wrote:
| MDN's web docs were instrumental. They have a nice guide[1].
| Beyond that, their docs for the web APIs are great too.
|
| It was actually pretty easy, but I did get tripped up by the
| scope of the service worker. Initially I had the service worker
| js file in the `scripts` folder but it wouldn't work properly
| because the scope is by default relative to that file's
| location. I moved it to the root and that fixed my problem but
| you can also configure the scope when you register it[2].
|
| [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
| US/docs/Web/Progressive_web... [2]:
| https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/ServiceWork...
| johndhi wrote:
| As a non technical person, can I download and use the app? How?
| jameal wrote:
| Yes but keep in mind the trail that's loaded is baked into the
| app. You can't select from a list of trails or anything like
| that. This is more of a boilerplate for other people to
| customize. But maybe someone will fork and add that kind of
| functionality.
|
| That being said, it's a web app which means it runs in your
| browser. Follow the link at the top of the README ("Try it out
| here").
|
| If you're on Android, open your browser menu and look for a
| menu item that reads `Install` and tap that to add the icon to
| your homescreen. Now you can use it as a standalone fullscreen
| app.
|
| If you're on iOS Safari, you can follow the same instructions
| but install of `Install` it's something like `Add to Home
| Screen`. Unfortunately Apple doesn't support all the same
| features because they want to incentivize people using their
| app store.
| jonah wrote:
| Nice!
|
| We use CalTopo.com (Works everywhere, not just California) and
| GaiaGPS.com for offline mapping and track recording. Both allow
| offline use after downloading map tiles.
|
| CalTopo allows you to add lines and markers and polygons to your
| map beforehand in the web app or in the field on the mobile app.
| It does have a number of analysis features, but it's not as
| multi-day-hiking-specific.)
| [deleted]
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Very clear README on how to use and configure. Leaflet seems like
| a great resource. Also particularly appreciate this included
| advice for users:
|
| > "You should always research your trip ahead of time, plan
| training hikes, become familiar with the terrain, carry a
| physical compass and map and know how to use them."
|
| Here's an idea for an app: one that teaches users how to find
| their position with nothing but map and compass (though having a
| non-GPS, i.e. barometric, altimeter is also useful, particularly
| in poor visibility).
| jameal wrote:
| Thanks for the feedback. I tried to make it as clear as
| possible so I appreciate the validation.
|
| Honestly, I have terrible natural bearings and I've never
| relied on a map and compass but I would love to practice with
| an app like what you're describing.
|
| There's some ultramarathon race I remember reading about where
| contestants bushwack an insane distance through some stretch of
| woods over a few days using only compass and map. I don't think
| I'd even make it a mile!
| js2 wrote:
| I'm guessing you're thinking of the
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkley_Marathons
|
| https://barkleymovie.com/
|
| https://vimeo.com/97270099
|
| I've completed a few ultra marathons but only on well marked
| impossible to get lost on trails. I'm not even brave enough
| for the http://www.uwharrie100.com/
| jameal wrote:
| Yes that's it! Absolutely insane. I'm sure it's thrilling
| but I would rather just hang out in a small area and enjoy
| the nature.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Those are orienteering competitions, it takes a certain type
| to enjoy them. It's not too hard to learn the basics however.
|
| First, try to orient the map to the surroundings based on
| landmarks which you get readings on using the compass. (A
| more expensive compass with a mirror for sight readings is
| kind of essential, also with an adjustment for your local
| magnetic vs. true north offset, which can be fairly large).
| Here is where having a satellite GPS to get your location on
| the map makes life a whole lot easier, but orienteering types
| sniff at such aids.
|
| Once the map is oriented, plot your straight-line course to
| your desired location on the map (although you may have to go
| around obstacles, so then you have to plot a zig-zag route).
| Then, use the compass to follow that plot as best you are
| able, re-orienting the map every once in a while to landmarks
| to verify your location. Checking against an altimeter also
| helps ensure you are where you think you are.
|
| It's amazing how fast one can get off-track in whiteout
| conditions due to snow or heavy clouds, though. And if there
| are no visible landmarks in flat country, then having a
| satellite GPS is pretty key! (as long as the batteries last).
| eddsh1994 wrote:
| On a slight tangent, one app I've wanted recently is where I can
| automatically generate run routes of a certain distance from my
| location using google maps or something. Basically put a pin
| where I start, where I finish (maybe the same place), and
| distance, where it then offers various possibilities I can pick
| from. Does something like this exist?
| tony_cannistra wrote:
| This is a premium feature of Strava
| folli wrote:
| Check out trailrouter.com
|
| I discovered it thanks to an Show HN
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23802317)
| solardev wrote:
| This is great! Thanks for sharing!
|
| Can I ask you how calculated the slope gradients (if I'm reading
| that right? like red = steep?)
| jameal wrote:
| I wish I had time to have built that part myself! I'm leaning
| heavily on open source plugins like these [1][2]. The gradients
| are representative of elevation. So red = highest points along
| the trail and green = lowest points. Where you see sharp
| gradients from green to red is where the steepest slopes are.
| There is slope graph that can be setup in the plugin
| configuration.
|
| [1] https://github.com/Raruto/leaflet-elevation [2]
| https://github.com/iosphere/Leaflet.hotline
| wingworks wrote:
| Pretty cool, though I'd just want an app that shows
| hiking/walking tracks, even when zoomed out. OSM has such a great
| db of tracks, but trying to discover them is near impossible
| unless you know they're there. (you gotta zoom in so far, as soon
| as you try to get an overview the tracks disappear)
| seattle_spring wrote:
| Very cool, but fwiw Gaia does all of this beautifully. I've used
| it for years to pre-cache maps and track my progress.
| ghostbrainalpha wrote:
| I like this a lot.
|
| The All Trails cost seems too much for me, because my hiking is
| limited to 1 or 2 trails.
|
| I'm going to see if I can draw my own trail with the GPS
| visualizer this weekend!
| avg_dev wrote:
| Thanks for creating and releasing this. I started getting into
| walking after the pandemic. There is a nice suburban trail near
| my house and I have walked several hundred miles on it. This app
| is inspiring me to take my newfound love of nature and trails for
| a day trip or even a multi-day trip. I am grateful for your
| advice to do my homework including learning to use and carry a
| compass and a map. To wit:
|
| > You should always research your trip ahead of time, plan
| training hikes, become familiar with the terrain, carry a
| physical compass and map and know how to use them.
|
| Have you any additional advice for someone who has not really
| done a multi-day trip before? I have never heard of AllTrails; I
| will check it out.
| jameal wrote:
| I love hearing about the positive effects from difficult events
| like the pandemic. I'm glad this is inspiring you. I got very
| inspired as I was building it too. Working on it brought out
| some enthusiasm I haven't had in a long time--really since I
| first started coding for fun. There's something about
| integrating the two hobbies (dev & backpacking) that really
| invigorated me.
|
| Have you done any overnight camping before? REI has some good
| resources[1] including checklists for gear. I bet you can find
| some good YouTube channels too with camping tips too. Watch
| some of those to get a sense.
|
| I'd recommend starting with a single overnight. Find someone
| experienced to go with if you can. If not, find a trail where
| you stay close to the trailhead. That way you can bail if you
| need to.
|
| Some other tips that come to mind: - Consider the wildlife in
| your area and whether you need to bring bear spray and hang
| your food (and any fragrant items) - After each trip do a
| little reflection. What did you bring that you didn't need?
| What did you need that you didn't have? - Make sure you carry
| enough water. Most people need about a half liter per hour
| during moderate activity in moderate temperatures. If you want
| to rely on natural water sources, you will most likely need a
| water treatment device. Also consider that some lakes/streams
| are seasonal and not always available. Do your research! - Read
| up on Leave No Trace principles so that you can conserve the
| outdoors and make sure others can have the same enjoyment[2].
|
| That should give you a good place to start. Feel free to reach
| out with any specific questions. I've been thinking about
| sharing more camping/hiking resources on my website.
|
| [1]:
| https://www.rei.com/learn/c/camping/t/skills?ir=category%3Ac...
| [2]: https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/
| ryanisnan wrote:
| Just a word of warning, if you don't know how to use a map and
| a compass, and don't practice with it semi-regularly, do not be
| fooled into thinking these will save you simply because you
| have them.
| ghaff wrote:
| I don't fully disagree. You certainly don't want to suddenly
| have to use unfamiliar tools for the first time when your
| phone dies or you discover you forgot to download a digital
| map.
|
| On the other hand knowing the rough direction you're going
| and seeing where trails go don't require being an
| orienteering whiz.
| wnissen wrote:
| It doesn't, you're right. But the counterpoint to that is
| you should be really, really sure you have correctly gotten
| back on track if you decide to move any significant
| distance. That is the number one thing wilderness rescue
| folks will tell you. Assuming someone knows when you're
| supposed to be back, it will be vastly easier to check the
| immediate vicinity of your planned route than to find you
| well off-trail in some other direction. Climbing a nearby
| hill for better visibility or getting on a more-traveled
| fire road is fine, but heading off can really slow down the
| search.
| ryanisnan wrote:
| I agree with both of your points. The gaps in knowledge
| become a real problem if the user has lost their sense of
| location, which happens surprisingly easily. If your egress
| route is straight-forward (e.g. head west, no hazards on
| route), it's easier to recover. But there are lots of
| skills that need practice or instruction - triangulation,
| aiming-off, taking a bearing, back-bearing, declination
| setting, heck even reading your altitude.
|
| Add panic because you're lost and losing daylight, and
| you're in a pickle.
| ghaff wrote:
| Yeah. My assumption was that you'd probably be hiking on
| trails. Bushwhacking or off trail travel generally
| require more skills. Though if you've just gotten turned
| around pulling out a compass can help a lot.
| ryanisnan wrote:
| In the SAR world, it's very rare we search for people who
| are intentionally going off trail (e.g.
| scrambling/mountaineering/bush-whacking). It's almost
| exclusively folks who were hiking on trail, lost the
| trail, and then became disoriented. It's hard to know for
| certain, but my gut says some large % of those folks
| would not have been aided by having a map/compass.
| ghaff wrote:
| Certainly it's about a lot more than knowing what a map
| and compass is--including when to just turn back. Though
| I'd argue those 2 things are at least a minimal backup if
| electronics fail or aren't properly setup. And I suspect
| a lot of people don't carry because they figure they have
| a phone.
| squier51 wrote:
| "trail sense" is great app in this category
| https://github.com/kylecorry31/Trail-Sense
| [deleted]
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(page generated 2022-11-01 23:00 UTC)