[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How did you find joy in life?
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Ask HN: How did you find joy in life?
I can't find joy in life. Nothing interesting. When I think
rationally I am excepting myself as whom I'm. Yes, for example,
friends talk to me passionately about something (music, events,
chess, etc..). I'm just like, "yeah, interesting". I never feel
excited about anything deeply. I admire people like Feynman who are
passionate and curious about science, life, to learn. I want to
feel like them but nothing triggers that type of feeling. In the
end, I'm just passing my days. Naval says in his book something
like " we will be forgotten 100000 years from now. There is no
meaning". this is not the case for me. I don't want to be
remembered or make something useful for people, for the world. I
just want to be curious, and passionate like Zorba (Zorba the Greek
by Nikos Kazantzakis), like Feynman. Without curiosity, man is
nothing. If you had experienced this type of thing, how did you
handle it?
Author : jamilaghasiyev
Score : 40 points
Date : 2022-10-30 20:00 UTC (3 hours ago)
| isthisthingon99 wrote:
| Joy is in the journey, not the destination. You have reached a
| destination and you are bored of it. Time to find a new journey.
| T-zex wrote:
| By exercising _every_ day and playing a music instrument. If you
| can 't exercise, just do a ~2 hour walk (in any weather). Go out
| and walk. Same with music, if you don't know how to play, just
| make sounds with it. Any sounds, the way you can. I use my bass
| guitar as a stress ball. I can't play it in a conventional sense,
| but I can make sounds I like and it helps me.
| chasd00 wrote:
| My boys (ages 10 and 12) bring me more joy than anything else in
| my life ever has. At least so far anyway.
| throwaway3838g wrote:
| A lot of people that are passionate about things are not content
| with the status quo. They want to "make a mark" so to speak.
|
| Not to dissuade you from finding passion, but from someone who's
| always been passionate about things, it can drive you a little
| crazy. Not to mention the joy that you speak of is temporary,
| there is always another hill to climb/ goal to reach
| ninethirty wrote:
| Your embedded a false assumption in your summary, which is the
| source of your problems.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRU-0uH2rw
| comfypotato wrote:
| In my very non-professional opinion, that sounds like depression.
| I'm pulling on personal experience here. I've felt very
| similarly. I take medication and see a therapist now. I also
| don't experience these feelings any more. I don't know if I
| solved a problem or grew out of a phase.
|
| To answer your question, though: I found a friendly community of
| people that held a similar worldview to me.
| D13Fd wrote:
| Exactly my first thought.
|
| "The core symptom of depression is said to be anhedonia, which
| refers to loss of interest or a loss of feeling of pleasure in
| certain activities that usually bring joy to people."
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(mood)
| Rezwoodly wrote:
| BobbyJo wrote:
| What makes you think taking medicine for depression could
| potentially lead to brain damage?
| mlyle wrote:
| Modern, first-line antidepressant use (SSRI/SNRIs) is not
| correlated with having a "damaged brain".
|
| There's certainly side effects, but most people find the side
| effects more tolerable than depression itself. And, many are
| able to use the SSRIs as an adjunct to more permanent therapy
| and do not need to take the pills long term.
| DamonHD wrote:
| Just possibly, your low engagement and low interest are symptoms
| of depression or similar.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| What cures are there for depression other than
|
| 1. anti-depressants
|
| 2. therapy / exercise / diet changes
|
| 3. a perspective change
|
| 4. ignoring it
| manmal wrote:
| Some things to take into consideration:
|
| - Optimizing the microbiome. There's tons of studies around
| various strains and methodologies etc. You could benefit from
| just eating no sugar and more fiber, or you could be in need
| of a fecal matter transplant. Unfortunately the microbiome
| and its effects on health is still not that well understood.
|
| - Light therapy, or photobiomodulation with near-infrared
| light has some promising studies. I've personally used it to
| great effect.
|
| - Magnesium supplementation has been shown to work in some
| treatment-resistant cases (obviously only works if you're
| deficient). Mg is quickly eliminated via kidneys, so lower
| doses spread over the day might work better.
|
| - Check Glycine levels (or just try a supplement, it's
| cheap). Low levels are linked to depression. It also improves
| sleep usually, a nice side effect.
|
| - Anything that lowers inflammation in the brain could work
| well in treatment resistant depression.
| rmetzler wrote:
| I read an article about gardening being a great source of
| anti depression. Not only the activity, but also the
| bacterias in the soil, which we are deprived of in our modern
| society with it's hygiene and antibiotics. These bacterias
| lived with us for a very long time (thousands of years) and
| just recently we started to kill them in us. Additionally
| there are connections between the gut microbiome and the
| brain which are not fully explored yet.
|
| I was sitting on a small hill in the grass and was feeling
| depressed like the weeks and months before that. I figured, a
| little bit of dirt couldn't hurt. I licked my finger, stuck
| it in the sand, and ate it.
|
| This is of course anecdotally, but I'm certain it helped me.
| valleyer wrote:
| I'm very glad you are feeling better, but it's important
| for others to be aware that this is pseudoscience.
| johnebgd wrote:
| I'd follow the results of Cybin and their psilocybin clinical
| trials.
| migro23 wrote:
| Do you have access to cold water. sea lake, bath with ice?
| Get in on a regular basis (with necessary precautions)!
| Access to a sauna? Get in on a regular basis. Engage in
| regular exercise, cardio is great. Don't feel like it? Do it
| anyway, treat it like it's meds because in a very real sense
| it is. Get your diet in order. Sugar is the devil! Get your
| sleep in order. Try and get to sleep before midnight and when
| you wake up in the morning go outside (before 9am) and get
| some morning light in your eyes. It improved my sleeping
| pattern immensely.
|
| It may not be a dead cert cure for depression but all of the
| above has accumulative effects over time and it is more
| difficult to feel bad mentally when you are feeling really
| good physically.
| throwuxiytayq wrote:
| Favorite-worthy comment, thanks! I've certainly had success
| with some of these and would like to add more to my
| routine. (I've found it that having a stable, healthy daily
| routine helps a lot by itself. Getting used to _actually_
| getting up and making coffee immediately after I wake up
| has made a surprisingly large difference to my mornings)
| manmal wrote:
| > Engage in regular exercise, cardio is great. Don't feel
| like it? Do it anyway, treat it like it's meds because in a
| very real sense it is.
|
| This is not necessarily good advice, overtraining is a
| thing and actually causes depressed mood. Check heart rate
| variability to make sure you are rested enough to exercise.
|
| People with depression should really try to keep
| inflammation low, and preventing overtraining is an
| important part of that.
| yakak wrote:
| Sleep deprivation
| manmal wrote:
| That's a short term band aid and possibly damaging long
| term.
| manscrober wrote:
| Do you have data/studies for either side? Genuinely
| interested in this, because intuitively it makes sense -
| sleep deprivation amplifies emotions - but I also have
| experienced first hand that long term sleep deprivation
| slowly deteriorates my emotional state.
| manmal wrote:
| There's probably way more going on, but the glymphatic
| system impairment caused by (proper) sleep deprivation
| could be one of the big factors. Basically the trash
| can't be taken out. Here's a paper that explores
| neurological disease as a result of that:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261373/
| [deleted]
| coldtea wrote:
| Well, 4 can also be considered as "just let some time pass",
| which as a cure can be synonymous with 3, or with 5: a change
| of fortunes/circumstances (as there is also situational
| depression, being depressed about actual shitty
| circumstances, from sickness and close deaths to
| incarceration).
|
| In any case, those 4 things you've mentioned are well enough
| already.
| gizajob wrote:
| Sex and love
| bm0 wrote:
| LSD (not without risks but it changed my life). Maybe that
| counts as #3 though.
| Kiala wrote:
| Electroconvulsive therapy
| daralthus wrote:
| Read Impro by Keith Johnstone. Had a lot of practical games I
| could try to enhance my playfulness, imagination, social
| abilities, etc. He also started with the exact same problem you
| mention.
| PuppyTailWags wrote:
| Volunteer somewhere where giving even once moment of compassion
| means the world to someone else. Foster kittens, birds that
| strike buildings. Talk to the elderly in homes. Give your time to
| tutor children from rough households. Feed the homeless.
|
| There is no greater impact, no clearer sense of impact, than
| starting from ones own neighborhood.
| tempxyz wrote:
| Curiosity is dying. All that matters are cars.
| Comevius wrote:
| And family. Nothing stronger than family.
| lookagain wrote:
| And simulated sex for the sexless. Nothing stronger than
| staring.
| Nomentatus wrote:
| Cars do kill a lot of cats, therefore less curiosity... I see
| your reasoning, here. :)
| rg111 wrote:
| I had a clear realization early in life: life has no meaning at
| all. Nothing really has any meaning. We are just neurons firing,
| chemical reactions constrained by physical laws.
|
| Later, when I read Buddhism, it says similar things.
|
| So, should we just prepare ourselves for death like the ancient
| Jains who starved themselves to death because nothing had any
| meaning?
|
| That would be pretty worthless, innit?
|
| I have discovered a simple, yet, profound truth: " _Meaning_ is
| what you assign to stuff with stern agency. Nothing else. "
|
| You are the sole assigner of meaning, and you do the assigning,
| and it's your life's mission to stick to it.
|
| I have found meaning in health, self-preservation through earning
| money, love- romantic and other kinds, parents, dog, learning new
| things, music, enjoying small things in life, helping others
| selflessly, and making it a mission to contribute to society as
| much as possible so maximum number of people can realize such
| intricacies of the nature of reality.
|
| Yes, I was in your situation before. And I did bounce back. All
| it took me was being in ICU for 15 days when I was 21, fully
| conscious but fully paralized and ventilated. And meditations. A
| lot of it.
|
| (I fully recovered within two months, and currently live a fully
| healthy life with no medications.)
| stkai wrote:
| For me, service to others keeps me fulfilled: Volunteering,
| mentoring, and teaching. Doing those things also means I interact
| with people, and meet new people with interesting viewpoints.
| Nomentatus wrote:
| I've answered here (a similar sort of question also posted
| today): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33396442
| smokel wrote:
| Have you tried talking to a therapist about this?
|
| It is very hard to give advice for an individual based on so
| little information. A good therapist will try to track down a
| possible source of the problems, or give tools to handle the
| situation.
|
| Perhaps one source of frustration might be an overly rational
| approach to joy? Have you considered alternatives, such as
| religion, or certain strands of philosophy? In the grand scheme
| of things, it's not so clear cut that rationalism is the best
| approach to finding meaning in life.
|
| Another option might be that you value something (curiosity)
| highly, but don't act towards developing it? Perhaps if you
| invest some time in a random subject (e.g. one of music, events,
| chess) you will learn new things and get rewarded for that,
| either internally or socially. That might spark some joy!
|
| Good luck, you're not the only one who's had to struggle with
| this.
| tobbob wrote:
| I'm similar, I remember when I was a teen the way I'd obsess over
| things, now I just don't care about anything. I can't get
| excited. I think part of it is ageing, part of it could just be
| loneliness or depression, but I also think the way we can always
| distract ourselves with random crap on the internet is really bad
| for us.
|
| Over November I'll be going on a hiatus of anything that I do
| just to fill time and distract myself to prevent boredom.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| For me it's basically what Michael Keaton's character in bird man
| covers.
|
| Live so that your trying to impress yourself, not others. If you
| live to impress others 2 things result, 1 - they become
| gatekeepers to your happiness and 2 - you end up being surrounded
| by people that aren't your people. If you live to impress
| yourself at first you may seem alone but over time others that
| like what your doing, like you for you will gather around you and
| those are your people,
| MeyerK wrote:
| By switching from "Life owes me..." to "Life is the gift".
| fellowniusmonk wrote:
| How about this thought that is outside that false dichotomy.
|
| Life is a curse, but maybe I can make something from it.
|
| We were all happier before we existed. Non-existence had no
| upside but no downside either (practical or existential), we
| are burdened with existence and the knowledge and uncertainty
| it brings. But... how can a curious person not want to see how
| far they can go? The herculean attempt to transcend ones
| station will probably end in failure, but... maybe it won't,
| how interesting would that be?
|
| And after all, let's be intellectually humble, as much as we
| know/think that this is all meaningless, what if we are wrong?
| What if everything IS meaningful? What if we ARE the meaning?
| Who can truly say for certain one way or the other? Only the
| arrogant would claim to know 100%.
|
| Get weird with it, see what silly shit you can do, maybe your
| consciousness will drive our von neumann probes, maybe
| fundemental truths will be discovered in our life time (we are
| in the middle of an unprecedented technology hockey stick after
| all. )
| activitypea wrote:
| I agree, but that's not exactly actionable advice. Any tips on
| how to get there?
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| My step-mom told me that she came out of a major depression in
| her 20s by ignoring herself and focusing on what she could do
| for others to ease their pains (volunteering, etc.).
|
| It seems solid advice since part of the problem with depression
| in general and your description seems to be the inward focus on
| yourself...
|
| Also, I'll add we like different things: "To crush your
| enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the
| lamentation of their women!"
| badpun wrote:
| I don't think looking up to Feynman as a role model is a good
| idea. The stories Feynman told about himself and the way he
| portrayed himself were not necessarily true. I've read an account
| of someone who was his neighbor and knew him well (was a
| physicist, too), and it wasn't very flattering. It sounded like
| Feynman was pretty insecure and cared a great deal what people
| think about him and that they consider him a genius and a very
| interesting man.
|
| Zorba the Greek is a fictional character. Not a great role model
| at all, since he's purely a made up construct.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _It sounded like Feynman was pretty insecure and cared a
| great deal what people think about him and that they consider
| him a genius and a very interesting man._
|
| So, just like almost everybody else - but in his case he was
| indeed a genius and very interesting...
|
| > _Zorba the Greek is a fictional character. Not a great role
| model at all, since he 's purely a made up construct._
|
| Missing the point...
| HiroshiSan wrote:
| Exercise and Diet.
| akoncius wrote:
| i don't find joy in life. sometimes I get a feeling of purpose,
| but even this does not bring joy because in many cases it's a sad
| situation.
| MilnerRoute wrote:
| Sometimes I wonder if there's a "neurodiversity" thing that makes
| some people more enthusiastic than others. (And of course it's
| the time of year when people start reporting seasonal affective
| disorder.)
|
| Once I wondered if my interest levels are affected by how well
| I'm sleeping. That got me interested in the physical things that
| affect your mood -- and how serious exercise could flood your
| brain with generally-uplifting biochemicals. (Though it can also
| bring you down if you don't also eat enough protein and
| carbohydrates to fully rejuvenate.)
|
| The last piece of the puzzle is mental -- some people try
| meditation, but even listening to extremely calming music can
| have an impact. People have tried "gratefulness" lists or a
| conscientious positivity practice. Someone once advised me to
| just do something nice for someone else, and then savor that
| feeling of having been helpful. (More or less that feeling you
| get when you see a tiny kitten or a cute animal in the zoo -- and
| you spontaneously start wishing them well.)
|
| The other thing that causes low-curiosity is burnout. (Just
| getting out of the house, taking a trip, seeing some people can
| sometimes help.) Working less, changing fields to a different
| challenge. Changing cities, changing countries....
| MollyRealized wrote:
| I don't know if you are the kind of person who likes to Google
| research about such issues relating to themselves, but if so, a
| term to Google for this is anhedonia.
| amelius wrote:
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Embrace hedonism, try smoking weed.
| bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
| This may seem like a joke reply but the "at least there's
| hedonism to fall back on" is not a bad default strategy while
| searching for greater joy in life.
| waprin wrote:
| This is an area I'm pretty passionate about.
|
| So first of all, it's pretty clear that you _do_ have some
| interests. You mention Feynman and Kazantzakis. That sounds like
| you're interested in the history of science and literature. That
| sounds pretty cool.
|
| Many people will recommend going to a professional which I won't
| try to dissuade you from but that's not mutually exclusive with
| examining your lifestyle.
|
| I'm obsessed with this podcast by Andrew Huberman (Stanford
| Neuroscientist) because he's talking about a scientific basis for
| stuff that has "felt" true to me for a while. Your food diet
| affects how you feel but your information diet does massively as
| well. There is a neurochemical basis for this with your baseline
| dopamine levels, that sets your motivation.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmOF0crdyRU&t=779s
|
| I also recommend reading the book Dopamine Nation.
|
| Too much social media will fry your brain. If you're checking
| Hacker News more than a handful times of day, work on doing less
| of that. If you're addicted to Reddit, Twitter, or pornography,
| work on doing less of that. Exercise. Spend time in the outdoors.
| Focus hard on sleep hygiene. Eat less sugar and processed foods.
|
| You can not change all this stuff overnight but if you can take
| baby steps it will help massively. You will not feel better
| tomorrow or next week but if you take tiny steps you will feel a
| tiny bit better in a few months.
|
| I would also highly recommend learning about mindfulness,
| meditation, and yoga. A lot of dissatisfaction is aversion to a
| feeling of emptiness that we have to learn to accept.
|
| Again, I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting any sort of
| help, especially if you're socially isolated (though you mention
| having friends). I just don't want you to underestimate how much
| you can help yourself.
|
| Lastly but not least, if you're eating great, exercising, getting
| natural sunlight, spending meaningful time with good social
| relationships, sleeping consistently, and moderating your
| internet usage, and you still feel no energy or interest in
| anything, you can just calmly accept it. Life "passes" us all by
| whether we're joyful or interested or not. Sometimes people with
| passionate interests actually get more problems from those
| interests than someone who can just calmly accept the moment for
| what it is. Ask yourself if the interests would make you happier,
| or if the actual problem is that you are making an imaginary
| problem out of not being interested in things. Just food for
| thought!
| gilbertmpanga12 wrote:
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Cultivate your curiosity and find ways to help decent people in
| need. If you must have a benchmark, growing the quantity of those
| who will miss you when you're gone seems like a reasonable
| default.
|
| YMMV. Worked for me.
| throwaway221030 wrote:
| I learned to enjoy my life by ignoring people harvesting
| social, intellectual sites posting dumb no-content replies
| containing keywords the respective sites usually vote up on.
|
| This was an exception, so I'll delete my throwaway account now
| and refrain from posting here with my main account for a few
| weeks. Just saying.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Cynicism is hard on the soul. I hope you find some joy!
| lnsru wrote:
| Many ordinary people live their lives without great passions and
| interests. That's absolutely ok. Not everybody is Feynman,
| Zornader, Da Vinci or... yes... Hitler. There is no Mein Kampf
| for everybody.
| Daunk wrote:
| I've felt the same way for over 15 years, no solution in sight.
| I've tried the meds for many years, I've tried therapy, cognitive
| behavioural therapy and many other things and nothing has worked.
| I've also started to feel less interested in things I thought I
| was interested in.
|
| The only thing really keeping me alive and fighting is my
| girlfriend and my family, which I have pretty poor contact with
| if I'm honest, but I still don't want to upset them.
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