[HN Gopher] HP 12C English Calculator
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HP 12C English Calculator
Author : leonry
Score : 18 points
Date : 2022-10-27 06:18 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.hp.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.hp.com)
| rbanffy wrote:
| It's remarkable that the finance crowd is so attached to this
| anachronistic tool. It's almost as if the C-64 were the favorite
| tool for writers, and Commodore still made it just because of
| that.
|
| But then, the life and blood of the global financial system runs
| on Excel, so I'm not sure why I would be surprised by this.
|
| In retrospect, we should have gotten them addicted to Lisp
| machines and Silicon Graphics workstations ;-)
| woodruffw wrote:
| We're not far: I spend most of my day pushing text streams
| around in a terminal. Vi(m) and Emacs are still two of the most
| popular editors.
| rbanffy wrote:
| > Vi(m) and Emacs are still two of the most popular editors
|
| They are the two I use most frequently, but I don't think
| they are popular outside our niche.
|
| It kills me to see programmers on Windows using Notepad++.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > It kills me to see programmers on Windows using
| Notepad++.
|
| It kills me to see programmers on Windows using Notepad.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| I can sell you one out of my desk drawer for half that :-)
|
| The interesting thing is that they do what they do well, "boot"
| instantly, and can be carried in the pocket. When a company I
| was with was being acquired pretty much every one of the
| auditors had one of these in their pocket. They knew exactly
| what sequence of presses would answer the question they needed
| answer.
| tgv wrote:
| That's pretty important. When I needed a mortage last year, I
| wrote a small mortgage app (in Swift). While it's useful if
| you always need to enter the same set of numbers, a more
| flexible app would come with all kinds of UX problems: do I
| make it fast or do I guide the user? Do I try to cram all
| time based finances in the same interface, or are there
| different pages? Etc. And all of a sudden, it has become too
| complex for lay users, and too unwieldy for frequent users. A
| simple app suits the former, a calculator that only needs a
| few presses the latter. If everyone has the same device, even
| better.
| hyperrail wrote:
| > _It 's almost as if the C-64 were the favorite tool for
| writers, and Commodore still made it just because of that._
|
| Many lawyers in America still use WordPerfect, and I suspect
| Corel still makes and updates it for that reason :-)
|
| I've heard from WordPerfect fans that it gives much more
| precise and reliable control over formatting than Microsoft
| Word, very important for picky court clerks and judges.
| WordPerfect also has a "reveal formatting codes" function, the
| equivalent of showing the HTML tags or Markdown syntax in line
| with the formatted result.
|
| I haven't used WordPerfect in years, not since some WYSIWYG
| version for DOS (6?), so I don't have a personal opinion on
| whether it still deserves its popularity today.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > Many lawyers in America still use WordPerfect, and I
| suspect Corel still makes and updates it for that reason :-)
|
| IIRC, that's because Word can't do footnotes (or something
| like that) the way lawyers need to do them, but WordPerfect
| can.
| such12 wrote:
| It seems odd that Microsoft hasn't added whatever this
| feature is.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Given how many use their powerful computers as if trapped in
| time with a UNIX V6, working in a green phosphor (or orange)
| terminal, I am not surprised.
| warbler73 wrote:
| Almost as anachronistic as people using QWERTY consoles.
| felix318 wrote:
| I still have my HP 11C, the engineering equivalent, from my
| school days. It is still a joy to use, the build quality, the
| feel of the keys, the RPN system. The thing is almost 40 years
| old and it looks like new.
|
| Sure, it's totally anachronistic but the heart has reasons which
| reason knows nothing of.
| MegaDeKay wrote:
| Same here, only I have a 15C. Still works perfectly. I think I
| have changed the batteries in it twice since I got it around
| 1984 despite using it regularly. I swear it is solar powered.
| Animats wrote:
| I still have an HP 11C on my desk. Still running on coin cells
| from the previous century.
|
| The 12C is used because it can directly calculate present
| value, which is an integral over an interest rate. That's a
| non-trivial calculation that everyone who deals with the time
| value of money needs.
| snowmanak wrote:
| A great app that emulates this calculator is vacinno financial
| calc
| rmellow wrote:
| The HP 12C is an excellent example of "Calm Technology"[0]:
|
| 1. "Communicate information without taking the user out of their
| environment or task". The display shows a single number: either
| the answer to your question or your current input. I don't need
| to worry about running out of battery or charging it, as I only
| need to once every few years. I don't need to think about my 12C
| except when I need to answer a finance question. I don't need to
| turn it off "correctly", I just turn it off.
|
| 2. "Gives people what they need to solve their problem, and
| nothing more". Basic math plus special purpose finance functions.
| No notifications, input history, cloud saves, Share button,
| upsells, political statements or otherwise claim they're making
| the world better, achievements or pretty but functionless UI.
|
| 3. "Moves easily from the periphery of our attention, to the
| center, and back". When I'm discussing a scenario, I don't need
| to sit down at a computer and design a spreadsheet. The functions
| in 12C are concise and operate quickly, showing the answer to one
| question at a time.
|
| 4. "Technology should amplify the best of technology and the best
| of humanity". 12C doesn't use ML to guess poorly what the user is
| trying to do, suggesting autocompletes and "are you sure" or "you
| mean...". It respects that the user knows what they're doing.
|
| 5. "Technology can communicate, but doesn't need to speak". The
| display on 12C is minimal but shows everything you _need_ to
| know: the single number in front of you.
|
| 6. "Technology should work even when it fails". It either works
| or doesn't, no incorrect numbers reported, no missing
| functionality. Even when the battery dies, it will give me ample
| opportunity to do something about it before it actually happens,
| as the display dims gradually over weeks.
|
| 7. "The right amount of technology is the minimum needed to solve
| the problem".
|
| 8. "Technology should respect social norms". The 12C can be at
| the center of a conversation, and even help move a conversation
| forward by answering questions; I don't need to bury my face in a
| laptop while talking with someone, so it doesn't look like I'm
| ignoring them or that I've shifted my attention elsewhere; while
| I'm typing in numbers, it's obvious they're the numbers we're
| talking about. It respects the norms/customs of the field their
| customers work in: no need to type enter formulas for PV, FV,
| IRR.
|
| [0]: https://calmtech.com/
| smarks wrote:
| Good list. I'd add the following:
|
| * Requires virtually no system administration.
|
| It seems like every other piece of technology needs some setup,
| backups, periodic updates, or fiddling when something
| inevitably goes wrong.
|
| If I'm not mistaken the 12C doesn't have a clock. Thus, it
| doesn't need to be updated 2x a year for Daylight (Summer)
| time, nor to have its time zone tables updated. It doesn't need
| a clock; there are plenty of other ways for me to find the
| time, thank you. Not having a clock is a feature! Too many
| devices have a clock that cannot be disabled. A clock that is
| set wrong is worse than no clock at all. Thus, a device with an
| unnecessary clock demands my periodic attention to ensure the
| clock is set correctly.
|
| About the only system administration necessary for the 12C is
| to replace the batteries. The batteries last for a very long
| time. As noted above, the 12C operates for a long time in a low
| battery condition, so you can choose to change the batteries
| when it's convenient to do so.
| leonry wrote:
| Alternative version: HP 12C Platinum Calculator
| (https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-12c-platinum-calculator)
| kfitch42 wrote:
| So the choices are "English" or "Platinum"? I guess English is
| a color scheme and/or material?
| hyperrail wrote:
| I think English just refers to the language for the package
| labels and manual. Nothing to do with the calculator itself.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > I think English just refers to the language for the
| package labels and manual. Nothing to do with the
| calculator itself.
|
| They should make a calculator that works with English
| natural language numbers: compute eight
| plus four twelve
| mwcremer wrote:
| They do, it's called "COBOL."
| roberte3 wrote:
| The problem with the 12c Platinum, is that it was a "ground-up"
| rewrite, and is actually slower than the early 80s 12c.
| anikom15 wrote:
| It's slower? Any proof of that? I believe it is slower than
| the _most recent_ revision of the 12C, but it's certainly
| faster than the original 12C. The Platinum has many more
| registers which I find outweighs the improved speed of the
| current 12C. The stack push behavior of the Platinum also
| helps make programs a little shorter from my experience.
| qull wrote:
| I own one, and the way it works suits loan and interest
| calculations to a t. I has a niche, but within it it is the
| defacto standard. I encourage everyone to learn RPN!
| anikom15 wrote:
| No one has mentioned that this calculator is programmable. The
| programming is keystroke with gotos and simple x=0 branching.
| It's absurdly useful and easy to use.
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| Nostalgia sells! There's something so innocent about this. I
| often fall prey to it myself, that or restoring videos on
| YouTube.
| haunter wrote:
| Vaguely related: Canon X Mark I, mouse + calculator in one. I saw
| some people in finance using this and they really liked it (afaik
| works with SAP and Excel too)
| https://www.canon.com.hk/en/product/catalog/productItemDetai...
| protomyth wrote:
| Did anyone have the HP-16C? I was wondering what it had and if
| its features are in any of the other calculators?
| gt743268 wrote:
| I have a modern clone, the Swiss Micros DM-16L. Clone-wise, the
| display is better, the keyboard is worse, the software is
| emulated and faster.
|
| Useful when doing embedded programming, it's great at
| duplicating the behavior of actual machine instructions.
| Buttons for things like and, or, xor, not, shift, etc. You set
| your word size, then poke through calculations and get the same
| overflow/carry behavior, even with offbeat representations like
| 7 bit 2's complement.
|
| You can put it into a human-compatible fixed point mode to do
| normal math. It's fine for some things that way, but no
| exponents or trig or scientific notation, barely more than 4
| function really.
|
| Many of the newer RPN HP calculators include these functions,
| however all the computer math things are done with multi-button
| soft key presses or menu selections instead of dedicated
| buttons.
|
| I also have a TI Programmer. Inferior from a practical point of
| view, as it has many fewer functions. But it's fun to play with
| as it has one of those early red LED displays.
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