[HN Gopher] Odroid-H3
___________________________________________________________________
Odroid-H3
Author : teekert
Score : 118 points
Date : 2022-10-28 14:22 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.hardkernel.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.hardkernel.com)
| lob_it wrote:
| Klasiaster wrote:
| Who cares just about plain HW specs? Nowadays I also expect the
| info on whether it supports UEFI booting, whether the firmware
| gets updates (and if fwupd or not), and if mainline Linux can
| boot and from what version.
|
| Too often these products have a limited lifetime (and are too
| hard to use) due to lack of the above.
| [deleted]
| Svenstaro wrote:
| I'm running the H3+ right now and I can tell you that I'm
| booting plain UEFI with a plain Arch Linux and no special stuff
| required at all. The firmware received 2 updates so far in 3
| months.
| Klasiaster wrote:
| Sounds better than the other boards, they could have written
| this stuff as selling point.
| noncoml wrote:
| AliExpress has some interesting pc's based on N6005 on similar
| price point. Search for Topton N6005
| eneumann wrote:
| Word of caution to anyone thinking of using this for pfsense: the
| realtek 2.5G drivers are not included in the pfsense image and
| have to be installed manually. A real pain if you don't have easy
| access to another freebsd machine.
| sliken wrote:
| Nice unit, I tried to buy similar as a home router using the
| Odroid $47 4 x 2.5G daughter board. Sadly the chip shortage
| killed the H2 plus off.
|
| However there's now a zillion celeron+6x2.5G units out there
| cheap, see https://www.servethehome.com/category/networking/ for
| variants with N6005, i7-1165G7, N5095, and similar with 4 or 6
| 2.5G ports.
|
| If you want an ARM variant, this one has 1G + 2x2.5G:
|
| https://liliputing.com/nanopi-r6s-is-a-single-board-pc-with-...
| bubblethink wrote:
| As others have pointed out, the value prop of these boards is
| running thin. STH covers a bunch of similar products, and this is
| a tough sell at $165. You can find many similar jasper lake
| router boards with 4x 2.5 Gbe in a similar price range, but
| they'll come in a proper case with a power supply.
| pizza234 wrote:
| Can you provide some references (to production products)? I
| couldn't find any STH brand.
| cptskippy wrote:
| STH = Serve The Home
|
| STH is a review website and YouTube channel that reviews a
| lot of prosumer and enterprise grade equipment.
| sliken wrote:
| Just look for the small router/switch looking pics with 4 or
| 6 ports on the front:
| https://www.servethehome.com/category/networking/
|
| They review half a dozen of them or so. Most with the N4000,
| N5000, and N6000 under $200.
| StephenSmith wrote:
| Does anyone know how this compares to something like the NVIDIA
| Jetson Nano?
|
| https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-nano-developer-...
| flatiron wrote:
| Different use cases. Jetson is for open CL. This is a SBC for
| general server/light desktop usage.
| StillBored wrote:
| Yah, its cool, but as mentioned in the pi thread, there are a
| pile of these jasper lake nuc's available via large retailers for
| $100-200, some better some worse, but in most cases they come
| with ram, storage, case and powersupply for those prices.
|
| for example, search for beelink.
| sliken wrote:
| Indeed, there's a family of them with the N4000, N5000, N6000
| families and even the i3/i5/i7 with 4-6 2.5G ports.
|
| There's a fair number at:
| https://www.servethehome.com/category/networking/
| capableweb wrote:
| Do those come with two ethernet ports, two DDR4 slots (up to
| 64GB), eMMC, M.2 _and_ two SATA ports?
|
| For me, this almost looks like an instant buy.
| katmannthree wrote:
| Generally not all of those. They do come with a case, active
| cooling, ~~far better graphics performance, and fewer
| software headaches due to being amd64 instead of aarch64
| though~~ nevermind, forgot that this is jasper lake too.
| capableweb wrote:
| Adding the H3+, power supply, fan and case to the cart
| reveals a total of ~180 USD, that's a pretty good price for
| what you get. I agree that the graphics might not be the
| best in class, but it's also not the worst. Overall I feel
| like it's a pretty neat price.
| BackBlast wrote:
| The iGPU on Jasper Lake CPUs is actually pretty good,
| particularly for the price. Much more potent than
| previous iterations of this class of CPU.
| devonkim wrote:
| Not just gigabit or 100 mbit Ethernet ports either but 2.5
| gbps and Realtek at that (ironically people have been
| complaining more about Intel NICs than Realtek recently but
| that's anecdotal still IMO). There's also other factors like
| GPIO pins as well. This is a board better suited for
| relatively higher performance and power efficient embedded
| projects by far than what most OEMs will produce.
| cptskippy wrote:
| Anecdotally I just upgraded my Server with hand-me-downs
| from my Desktop including a main board with integrated
| Intel NIC.
|
| I couldn't get the NIC to work on Ubuntu or Windows Server
| 2019.
|
| I will see if I can dig up the part number but iircc Intel
| just stopped supporting quite a few product lines including
| a line of NICs for integration into main boards. So perhaps
| that's where all the reports are coming from?
|
| I was surprised because I assumed the NIC would just work
| because it was Intel.
|
| * It's an Intel I219-V chip
| toast0 wrote:
| > ironically people have been complaining more about Intel
| NICs than Realtek recently but that's anecdotal still IMO
|
| I'm not sure if Realtek is getting better, I've heard a lot
| of issues with Intel 2.5G nics; people say some revs of the
| hardware are unusable at 2.5G (but do work fine at 1G).
| Personally, I've only got good things to say about Intel 1
| and 10G nics I've worked with.
|
| For me, Realtek 1G works ok until it doesn't, it's possible
| to overwelm the hardware with traffic and then you get bad
| behavior --- queues get stuck or seem to get stuck and the
| queue processing doesn't always fully reset when you tell
| it to --- this can lead to wild writes, following
| descriptors that the OS thought were dead. Sometimes better
| results with Realtek's drivers than open source drivers,
| but they frob the hardware with crypticly named defines,
| and I've seen them send pause frames (which nobody wants)
| with no way to disable. On one machine, using Realtek's
| drivers results in immediate kernel panics, so it's not
| universally great. The interrupt design is poor anyway ---
| MSI-X dates from 2002, they could have used a separate irq
| for rx, tx, and misc, rather than a single interrupt and a
| status register. But that might be ok if the status
| register worked properly. It's too easy to have timing
| issues when poking the status register and then you don't
| get interrupts you should. I haven't touched their 2.5g
| hardware, hopefully they fixed some stuff.
| Semaphor wrote:
| Search where? Because I can only find them for 350EUR+
| StillBored wrote:
| The top of the pi thread has this one:
|
| (16G ram, dual nic, 512G ssd) for $190 right now.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Processor-Beelink-Computer-Support-
| Di...
|
| If you lower the ram/ssd you can find them for $120 or so,
| some also have the dual 2.5G adapters, and as the link up
| thread shows its possible for ~200 to even get them with 4+
| 2.5G links.
|
| Granted a lot of these are "deals" rather than MSRP, but
| right now the "deals" seem to be the normal state of affairs,
| although it was mentioned that they have been slightly
| cheaper in the past couple weeks.
| Semaphor wrote:
| I guess those sales are US only, prices here in Germany are
| far higher.
| Severian wrote:
| The Jasper chip should be able to be used with hypervisors as it
| has VT-x and VT-d. Wish they listed the chipset for the Ethernet
| however, as VMware 7.x/8.x only supports a limited number (unlike
| 6.x which allowed community drivers). You might be able to host a
| handful of small low IO/CPU VMs on this.
|
| EDIT: Found the block diagram and these are Realtek RTL8125B. Not
| compatible with ESXi 7/8.. can use under 6.7 but I believe that's
| out of support now :/
| sliken wrote:
| For such a small system VMware seems like a weird choice. Why
| not proxmox?
| Severian wrote:
| Mainly for homelab use to complement work environment.
| rcarmo wrote:
| Or just use Proxmox and fill it with dozens of LXC containers
| :)
| Severian wrote:
| Indeed. Regretfully I would like to use this with the
| software I help support, which only runs under the major 2
| players (VMware / Hyper-V).
| olvy0 wrote:
| There's also the CompuLab products, for example the fitlet 2.
|
| https://fit-iot.com/web/products/fitlet2/
|
| https://fit-iot.com/web/products/fitlet2/fitlet2-specificati...
|
| Almost 8 years ago I bought their older model, Intense PC, to use
| it as our living-room "multimedia" machine even since. It's
| running Linux (currently latest Mint), without any problems all
| these years, including zero driver problems (a rarity among other
| Linux systems I've used). And of course no noisy fans since it
| has none, its passive cooling is really good.
|
| https://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/intense-pc/
| FloatArtifact wrote:
| I wish they would have up to eight at 6 to 8 SATA ports. Then it
| could be a proper nass.
| toast0 wrote:
| I've seen some pci-e m.2 5x sata boards. That would get you to
| 7 ports. You can boot from emmc (i assume) if you don't want to
| boot from your array.
| pizza234 wrote:
| I own an H2, and I strongly suggest them as middle ground between
| a PC and an (SBC) ARM. One of the main advantages is support,
| both in terms of applications (some programs may not yet compile
| on ARM), and kernel (although (some) ARM SBC can run with a stock
| kernel, it's advices to run a specific kernel to run optimally).
| The H2 also run impressively cool, and I suppose the H3 does, as
| well.
|
| Note though, that RPis have never been the most price effective
| ARM solution, as Hardkernel has always had more powerful and/or
| cheaper alternatives. Their current N2+ is probably both more
| powerful and cheaper than the equivalent RPi.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| I own one also, while I do recommend them... I would also
| recommend some caution if planning to use Linux
|
| I'm not sure if this is a common/repeat thing, but for _mine_ I
| need to maintain a build of the Realtek kernel modules out of
| tree
|
| If I try to use the discovered/automatic/inline driver... it'll
| drop out if I try to saturate the link.
|
| It's only when I blacklist this module and compile/use the one
| from Realtek that it works reliably
|
| edit: This has been consistent through about a year of Fedora
| kernel releases, for what it's worth -- rather leading edge.
| reachableceo wrote:
| On all Linux distros on all hardware , one should use the
| (latest(stable)) vendor drivers. :)
|
| The distro drivers (and/or) kernel drivers, are almost always
| garbage. Also make sure the NIC firmware is up to date.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| I appreciate you taking the time, but this isn't quite true
|
| For some vendors or kernels, certainly
|
| However, this completely disregards the work companies like
| Intel and AMD do to upstream their drivers, or the leagues
| of individual maintainers
|
| In many cases there is no difference, the driver in the
| kernel is the upstream one
|
| Nvidia has been a notable exception, but they're slowly
| improving by going (partially?) open source
|
| Realtek specifically has problems due to their shared
| driver core. For example, it often can't reliably tell the
| difference between an r8125 and r8169
| eqvinox wrote:
| > On all Linux distros on all hardware , one should use the
| (latest(stable)) vendor drivers. :)
|
| Care to provide any rationale?
|
| > The distro drivers (and/or) kernel drivers, are almost
| always garbage.
|
| My experience is the exact opposite, vendor drivers are
| almost always garbage, and the kernel drivers _just work_.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| I must say the exact opposite.
| pizza234 wrote:
| Based on the UK reseller, Ubuntu 20.04 supports the ethernet
| chipset out of the box, while 18.04 doesn't.
|
| I run on an unmodified 18.04 though (kernel v5.4), so I think
| that the support has been also added in a more recent 18.04
| LTS patch version.
| alias_neo wrote:
| Oof, speaking of the UK reseller; that PS277 after tax
| ($320 US) is quite a markup from the $165 (presumably plus
| tax) on the hardkernel site.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Interesting! I don't so much have an issue with support,
| but stability.
|
| I'd be curious to know if you're connected at 1 or 2.5G,
| and if 2.5, how it does if held at that level for about a
| minute
|
| An iperf3 test or two is usually enough to make it drop
| until I reboot
|
| Where with the compiled module it's rock solid
| djchen wrote:
| What distro and kernel version are you running on there? The
| Realtek 2.5G NICs should work natively with a recent kernel.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Funny you ask! I just edited this in, realizing it was
| relevant.
|
| It's quite odd, this is with Fedora -- the current/latest
| release for about the past year (34 through 36).
|
| It's seen quite a healthy number of 5.x kernels, but every
| time I try to go without I reluctantly have to build it
| again
|
| It'll work fine, for a time, but when I really put stress
| on that link it'll drop
|
| Edit: This is trained at multi-gig too -- going to a 10GbE
| Mikrotik switch.
|
| I haven't tried testing reliability at 1G -- it's probably
| better, but I'd like the speed... I still have yet to try a
| 6.y kernel on it
| zerd wrote:
| No guarantee that it'll fix it but for me it helped to
| disable ASPM, details in
| https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?t=39678
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Certainly worth a try, thank you!
|
| Seeing they have a kernel PPA makes me suspect too that
| there's some patchwork going on, where I'm using vanilla
| Fedora kernels
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| I was an early adopter of Hardkernel's Odroids, for better
| (size, performance:cost) and for worse (longevity).
|
| This looks like a winner in every way. x86_64
| for longevity and support, tested with Ubuntu $latest LTS
| decent CPU, better than Raspberry Pi RAM up to 64GB,
| two SO-DIMM slots, up to 32GB per slot M.2 NVMe storage
| 2 x 2.5Gbit Ethernet ports 2 x SATA 3.0 ports
| Intel UHD Graphics, HDMI 2.0 and DP 1.2 video outputs
| moffkalast wrote:
| Not only that, but after some digging it seems that the GPIO
| header is actually not half bad either despite it being
| somewhat small: https://wiki.odroid.com/_detail/odroid-h3/har
| dware/h3_24pinm...
|
| Supports i2c, UART, USB, and hopefully manual pin control
| too. That's already miles ahead of a NUC in terms of
| interfacing.
| eqvinox wrote:
| > Supports i2c, UART, USB, and hopefully manual pin control
| too.
|
| From the set of pins provided I wouldn't get any hopes up
| for manual pin control. All pins are single-function, USB
| pins are almost never switchable (because they're high-
| speed analog-ish PHY functions), and UART & I2C are not
| GPIO-capable functions on most x86 platforms.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Well that sucks if true, but at least an i2c GPIO
| expander/servo board is not out of the question I guess.
| ThrowawayR2 wrote:
| Nice to see a successor to the H2/H2+ finally.
|
| > Power consumption: IDLE : [?]1.9W
|
| Better idle power than a Raspberry Pi 4 plus it has functioning
| suspend modes.
| moffkalast wrote:
| After all these years I still can't believe the Pi 4 has no low
| power mode and uses like 2 W when completely shut down. Like
| seriously how can you mess up so badly.
|
| 'Fewer components', yadda yadda, and on the other hand they
| manage to include a full headphone jack that's completely
| unusable due to induced noise... just _sigh_
| hadlock wrote:
| I haven't seen a corrupted SD card on an SBC in, well since
| at least 2015. I guess it's possible under heavy read/write
| but I've not experienced it and I tinker with the stuff at
| least a couple times a year.
| beebeepka wrote:
| Really? My Pi managed to corrupt two 128gb cards in 2 years
| or so. It absolutely happens. I was running light web apps
| with less than 10 users, hence minimal writes, especially
| for cards this big
| cptskippy wrote:
| I run a couple Raspberry Pi 2s and they average about 1
| SD card a year between them.
| alias_neo wrote:
| They have 2 dots in there, "1..9W" so I believe it's 1-9W not
| 1.9W.
|
| Hard to say though.
| tym0 wrote:
| If this can replace the laptop I am running as plex server and
| with the current price of electricity of the UK, it could pay
| itself pack in less than five months...
| sliken wrote:
| As someone else mentioned it's 1-9W not 1.9W for the H3 and
| H3+.
|
| I don't particularly trust the numbers, generally the N6005
| runs hotter than the N5105, which makes sense since it's the
| same process and largely the same chip with more GPU EUs.
|
| ServeTheHome mentions VERY similar boxes (same CPUs) "At idle,
| we saw between 10-12W depending on single versus double SODIMM
| configurations. Maximum power consumption hit just over 30W.
| Both at idle and at maximum, this is significantly higher than
| the J4125, but one also gets more performance, so there is a
| clear trade-off. At the top end, adding ~5W over the N5105 was
| unexpected based on similar TDPs."
|
| On the N5105 (they reviewed at least two) "Power was not a
| winning point of this solution. At idle, we saw between 10-12W
| depending on single versus double SODIMM configurations.
| Maximum power consumption hit 24.5W even with the Topton
| configured (512GB/16GB) unit. There is clearly room to go up
| from there. This is a lot higher on both idle and maximum power
| consumption than the Celeron J4125 that we looked at
| previously."
| tbyehl wrote:
| I suspect that H3/H3+ numbers are on the DC side with an eMMC
| module, a single DDR4 SO-DIMM of the lowest capacity, with
| the most aggressive power management settings, and nothing
| else attached. 1.9w idle is plausible but not what people are
| going to see with a realistic running configuration measured
| from the AC end.
| driverdan wrote:
| Has anyone tried one of these for 4k plex transcoding? 32 EUs
| isn't a lot but may be enough for a couple of streams.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| 4932 passmark according to this:
| https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?id=4565
|
| That is pretty respectable. But, this is a $165 board, so it
| seems kind of niche compared to a small PC motherboard at around
| half the price, unless I'm way out of date.
| jcrawfordor wrote:
| I actually had an ODroid H2 that failed maybe 6 months ago (not
| by any fault of its own really, it was installed in a
| "difficult" environment and probably got much hotter than was
| reasonable). I went shopping around for a newer replacement and
| was surprised to find that the market of very small, e.g. nano-
| ITX embedded motherboards has basically dried up and at that
| point it was very difficult to find something that was even
| comparable with the H2 at the same price point. Much of what I
| was seeing were $150 boards with very old Celeron chips that
| underperformed the H2 (due to being older designs mostly, but
| still being manufactured). I think ARM adoption is large enough
| that there's not much of a market for x86 embedded boards that
| isn't heavy equipment that's very price insensitive, and even
| then the fact that most of the options are built around 9 year
| old processors suggests that this market might be mostly legacy
| products.
|
| You could probably save a bit of money, but I would guess not
| more than $40 or so, by buying a motherboard and socketed
| processor separately, a more conventional PC setup. But these
| usually aren't readily amenable to completely passive cooling
| which is an important criteria for me (and off the shelf
| passive coolers for even modest TDPs are expensive on their
| own), and it's also hard (maybe impossible?) to find the dual
| network interfaces in a setup that would come in below $165.
|
| In my case I ended up going with a NUC and external RAID
| controller/drive enclosure but it was an appreciably more
| costly setup-admittedly for a much higher end processor, but I
| think I ended up at around $500 before buying drives for the
| external enclosure which of course ended up as the largest
| cost.
|
| The application is a video surveillance NVR, I wanted x86 as
| the commercial software is Windows-based and not built for ARM.
| 2.5GbE network interfaces were not important (the bottleneck
| would be the archival spinning drives well before that), but
| dual network interfaces were as the existing setup was based on
| a dedicated surveillance switch running off the second
| interface of the NVR and I like that this is a simple setup
| with fewer configuration points than a VLAN hosted on the core
| switch (there's a reason most commercial appliance NVRs are set
| up this same way).
| hedora wrote:
| Wow, this is 80% as fast as my decade-old gaming PC. Now, if
| only it had a PCIe slot that I could plug a discrete GPU into,
| I could cut our electricity bill by a few percent.
|
| Edit: A sibling comment suggests looking at bee-link. It's
| definitely slower than my gaming PC, but it is getting close
| with integrated graphics, and is in a comparable price bracket
| to a hypothetical O-Droid-H3 with a PCIe slot:
|
| Bee-link GTR6 6900HX: $539. incl. board + cpu + integrated GPU
| + case
|
| O-Droid-H3: $465 ($165 + $300 Radeon RX 6600xt). incl. board +
| cpu + incompatible PCIe video card
|
| https://www.bee-link.com/catalog/product/index?id=383
|
| It'd be within a factor of two of the old upgraded desktop and
| the H3 + discrete GPU, but in a much slicker package:
|
| https://howmanyfps.com/en-de/graphics-cards/comparisons/amd-...
| nix0n wrote:
| This isn't just a small motherboard, it includes the CPU also.
| aliqot wrote:
| What small pc mobo/chip combos would you recommend at around
| half the price?
| pizza234 wrote:
| In addition to the sibling comment, form factor is an
| advantage, for those looking for a small machine (Mini ITX !=
| Nano ITX; the H* are actually even smaller than Nano-ITX).
|
| Hardkernel produces several very interesting boxes for H2 (I
| suppose also for the H3); I think there were 5 or 6 at the
| time, for different use cases. There was a very small one that
| fitted two 2.5" SSDs. They're all ugly, low quality, and
| tedious to assemble, but they're very small and relatively
| cheap.
| Semaphor wrote:
| The cases offer great options, i just wish they also had a
| pricier case that doesn't look like crap.
| ratiolat wrote:
| Oh boy. I'd buy this instantly if it was AMD. Is there comparable
| alternative which uses AMD CPU?
| bubblethink wrote:
| AMD ones exist, but are more expensive:
| https://www.loksing.com.cn/products/pre-sale-amd-ryzen-r5-56...
| chromatin wrote:
| This looks like a great chance to ask:
|
| Besides the ODROID-Hn series, what other single-board computers
| have dual ethernet? Very few, AFAICT. For router use-case, the
| alternatives suggested (buy an older NUC, for instance) don't
| work.
| sangnoir wrote:
| > For router use-case, the alternatives suggested
|
| Would you consider USB Ethernet adapters for the second port?
| Those cost about $15 (1 gigabit)
| easygenes wrote:
| NanoPi R5S has dual 2.5Gb and a 1Gb. [1] 1: htt
| ps://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product&produ
| ct_id=287
| sliken wrote:
| https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product.
| ..
|
| Double the ram, faster CPU, and double the price.
| easygenes wrote:
| Oh nice, those are a good deal. Looks like the cheapest
| board with RK3588S announced yet, and with all that
| ethernet to boot! Those were just launched a couple of days
| ago, looks like. [1][2] 1:
| https://liliputing.com/nanopi-r6s-is-a-single-board-pc-
| with-rk3588s-8gb-ram-and-three-ethernet-ports-for-119/
| 2: https://www.cnx-
| software.com/2022/10/28/nanopi-r6s-rockchip-rk3588s-router-
| mini-pc-dual-2-5gbe-gbe-hdmi-2-1/
| bubblethink wrote:
| Look around at STH forums. There are a bunch of jasperlake
| products with 4x or 6x 2.5 Gbe. This is one such seller:
| www.loksing.com.cn . You can also find them on aliexpress.
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| Why wouldn't a NUC work? I have a fanless Zoltac with dual
| nics. I use it as a media PC , but presumably it would work
| fine as a router. A cursory glance at Zoltac's page shows they
| still produce a variety of new configurations.
| jesperwe wrote:
| THANK YOU a thousand times for providing _actual_ power
| consumption specs! (Sorley missing from most SBC product
| pages...)
| sliken wrote:
| As mentioned elsewhere, it's 1-9W not 1.9W idle. Other similar
| products idle at 10-12 watts with the same CPU.
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(page generated 2022-10-28 23:01 UTC)