[HN Gopher] Tell HN: YouTube's web UI just got even worse
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       Tell HN: YouTube's web UI just got even worse
        
       The only two possible filters on the list of videos of a channel
       now are most recent and most popular.  I know it's a small thing
       but somehow this hits me really hard.  Also, there's less videos on
       a single row now. Because we can't read more than that without our
       attention span going poof.
        
       Author : Pooge
       Score  : 281 points
       Date   : 2022-10-28 13:41 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
       | Sin2x wrote:
       | They should rename it to just Tube without You to better reflect
       | the reality.
        
         | bionsystem wrote:
         | Funny because it's been a few months that the algorithm has
         | been getting worse at giving personal suggestions. I used to
         | have a lot of videos I enjoyed on my feed (maybe 75% of the
         | time I didn't have to scroll to find something I'd be willing
         | to watch) and now I often end up scrolling a lot to find a
         | suitable suggestion. And when I watch one all I get as a
         | suggestion is all of the things I didn't want before + another
         | video from the same channel of the video I just watched.
         | 
         | I don't know if people experience the same but I feel like I'm
         | just being fed whatever is trending now instead of things I
         | actually want to watch.
        
           | iLoveOncall wrote:
           | I've been hearing this criticism of "the suggestions are
           | getting worse recently" for so long that, if it was actually
           | true, YouTube would be only suggesting videos you actively
           | hate by now.
           | 
           | My suggestions are still totally fine, as they have always
           | been.
        
           | YourCupOTea wrote:
           | My suggestions have become increasingly stale. Before it felt
           | like they were trying to work in related videos but now it is
           | just the same 30-50 videos on the home page for the last 3
           | weeks.
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | > getting worse at giving personal suggestions
           | 
           | I agree; which is astonishing, given how bad it was before. I
           | wish there were some way I could actually tell it what I'm
           | interested in watching; but no, I have to let it infer my
           | preferences using it's "algorithms".
           | 
           | Even searching fails, even if I type in the full name of the
           | documentary I want to watch. You really have to bend over
           | backwards to make a literal search for the title of a show
           | give you a completely different show, with a completely
           | different title.
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | I recently wrote a browser extension for myself that allows me
         | to filter out videos from the YouTube search results that come
         | from Verified channels. The reason I did this is that some
         | search terms get completely overwhelmed by mainstream media
         | channels, and they happen to all have the Verified checkmark.
         | 
         | Turns out there's very little of the "you" in YouTube anymore.
         | I remember a day when you could type in any given search term
         | and there would be videos from everyday people arguing for one
         | thing or another, or showing you how to do a thing without
         | totally shilling out for dinner kits or mattresses. I was
         | surprised to find that even the least controversial topics
         | yield very little. When it comes to YouTube, it seems very few
         | everyday people just vlog or express themselves anymore.
         | Everything has to be a podcast, everything has to be sponsored,
         | everything needs graphics and studio lighting, everything has
         | to not piss off the wrong group, everything has to constantly
         | retread safe topics, and so on.
         | 
         | What a boring place YouTube became. The only reason I still use
         | it is because NewPipe still works and TikTok just seems like a
         | den of mental illness.
         | 
         | Also, I do find my extension useful. If I'm searching for
         | videos on a topic involving science or technology, I really
         | don't need a bunch of mainstream popsci bullshit.
         | Unfortunately, it only works for Firefox.
        
         | prox wrote:
         | MoreAdsMoneyTube
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | GooTube
        
       | mradek wrote:
       | As each of these subscription services have gotten worse, I've
       | ended my contracts with each one and I'm probably way happier
       | this way. I'm not overloaded by content, and I feel a more
       | enjoyable sense of discovery when I go looking on purpose for a
       | video. I use brave browser, so gg ads.
        
       | koofdoof wrote:
       | I've seen weirdly different sorting options for a while now that
       | vary channel by channel. I assumed it was set by the uploader,
       | but I would believe that its a global change now.
        
         | rayrag wrote:
         | I've noticed few months ago that Metallica channel didn't had
         | any sorting options. I could only switch between uploads and
         | past live streams.
        
       | andreyk wrote:
       | Why even worse? I use youtube a LOT and I don't particularly
       | dislike it.
        
       | running101 wrote:
       | I hope some from YouTube sees this feedback
        
       | hnburnsy wrote:
       | It is even worse for a music artist, on the Videos tab there is
       | no sort at all.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | t0bia_s wrote:
       | Freetube - https://github.com/FreeTubeApp/FreeTube
        
       | Pyrodogg wrote:
       | 5 out of 12 recommends are future streams/premiers all from the
       | same channel. I like the channel's content but 5/12 suggestions
       | for something I can't even watch _right now_ is just a joke.
        
       | weinzierl wrote:
       | The biggest offender is Youtube Shorts at the top. With TikTok at
       | least you can restrict your daily watch time and it is pure
       | entertainment anyway - I don't have to open it when I don't want
       | entertainment. Youtube is different because it has lots of useful
       | stuff too and this mixture of the helpful and the addictive is
       | pure evil. It is almost as if every food item in your life is
       | served with a beer, a cigarette, some coke and some crack for
       | free.
       | 
       | A bit OT, but I watch a lot of tutorials with many parts. Is
       | there a good way to track which part I already watched?
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I hate shorts with a passion. It's like they just decided to
         | remove half of the features and think it is better. Like you
         | can't cast a short to your TV via the YouTube app. You can cast
         | other portrait videos, but if they have #shorts in the title
         | then it gets blocked.
         | 
         | Luckily you can get the regular video UI if you go direct to
         | the video link in your browser, but no casting and if you ever
         | get to the video another way you need to edit the URL to do
         | simple things like seek.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | soared wrote:
         | There is a chrome extension to block shorts fyi
        
       | ryemigie wrote:
       | On the TV app it is nuts now. Only 4 rows of recommendations, and
       | 5 videos per row. Like a 1000% reduction in possible
       | recommendations. No idea why.
        
       | culanuchachamim wrote:
       | Interesting story
       | 
       | I used to procastinate a lot in YouTube, so I installed a plug-in
       | in the browser that don't let me get into YouTube. At the
       | beginning I was worried that it's not going to work for me,
       | because if you use te incognito mode the plug-in doesn't work, so
       | I thinked that every time I would want to procastinate I just
       | open the incognito mode.
       | 
       | But surprise! I'm no longer procastinate in YouTube, because
       | every time that I open YouTube in incognito, the recommendations
       | are sooo bad, that I just scroll a few seconds and get out, and
       | now I'm YouTube free for a long time.
        
         | jrmann100 wrote:
         | I shut down YouTube's addictive tendencies through a couple of
         | less extreme factors.
         | 
         | DF Tube (Distraction Free) web extensions are available[0] for
         | Chrome and Firefox which cut down intrusive UI (comments,
         | recommended videos, the home page). It's easy to clone and
         | extend the add-on if you want to block more.
         | 
         | When I'm on mobile, I limit the recommendations I can't block
         | by disabling/clearing YouTube watch history. The new UI is
         | aware of how much worse the suggestions are and hides them
         | altogether--which is exactly what I want.
         | 
         | From there, I try only look at my subscriptions feed and
         | occasionally the trending videos page. This makes YouTube less
         | overwhelming--even if I watch just as much content--because I'm
         | in control of what I want to see.
         | 
         | Curious if anyone else uses YouTube like this!
         | 
         | [0]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/df-tube-
         | distractio...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
       | I just tried and changing "dd" to "da" doesn't work, so it looks
       | like they ditched it completely:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_jKrZ130j5QcXycYK_HePw/vid...
        
       | woah wrote:
       | It's a tale as old as time: Programmer on HN complains about the
       | removal of obscure menu items from a popular social media app
        
       | the_jesus_villa wrote:
       | I'm also annoyed that I can't sort for oldest videos.
       | 
       | I remember being a 10-year old and reading these kinds of threads
       | on the Neopets forums _everytime_ a UI change happened. Back
       | then, everyone would promise to switch to a competitor. Then
       | everyone would forget, get attached to the new UI, and then if
       | they ever changed it again (even changing it back to be more
       | similar to the old one!) we 'd hear the say peans about how they
       | are ruining it.
       | 
       | See also: livejournal users threatening to go to dreamwidth, and
       | /b/day (the 4chan exodus to 7chan).
        
       | carlgreene wrote:
       | Ugh. One of my favorite things to do is go to my favorite
       | channels and sort by oldest to see how their videos have
       | progressed over time.
       | 
       | Such a shame they've made that so difficult for...nothing?
        
       | agentcooper wrote:
       | I've created a small macOS app to track YouTube channels without
       | being distracted by the web UI:
       | https://github.com/agentcooper/telik. Maybe some of you will find
       | it useful.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I use YouTube frequently, but I don't consider myself much of a
       | power user.
       | 
       | I have no idea how I'm "supposed to use" YouTube. I assume
       | because I'm a fairly light user my confusion must be because it
       | has some powerful tools/ interface for power users that confuses
       | light users like me.
       | 
       | But then I try to understand how I should find what I'm looking
       | for and it seems there's no good / efficient way to use it where
       | I don't end up wondering why I can't just click this or that to
       | get what I want.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | matsemann wrote:
       | My biggest peeve is how on the app, scrolling past a thumbnail
       | removes it and starts playing a preview. So the title or whatever
       | disappears, and instead I get to watch some person talk on mute.
       | Then when I actually click the video, it starts from where I was
       | in the preview, instead from the beginning, so I have to rewind
       | since I obviously didn't catch anything from the small muted
       | preview.
        
         | gs17 wrote:
         | For me it shows captions in the preview, so I actually get what
         | they're saying. I don't have captions on for videos, so no idea
         | why it's different between us.
        
           | matsemann wrote:
           | I do get captions, but they seldom make sense. I guess no one
           | at YouTube have tried watching non-English videos when making
           | this preview feature..? To be fair, the captions are quite
           | bad for the British panel shows I get recommended as well.
        
             | gs17 wrote:
             | That's fair, I forgot how awful the captions can be. Still
             | not sure how we got to a situation where, when watching a
             | video on my Google phone, the phone can make vastly better,
             | and near real-time, captions than YouTube can.
        
       | cphoover wrote:
       | Youtube has become almost unusable. recommendations are so bad.
       | Because I'm politically independent I've been put into some kind
       | of right-wing recommendation track... Now I'm getting recommended
       | ignorant pwnd the lib shorts. I've pressed not interested and
       | don't recommend this channel but it does nothing.
       | 
       | I really hate the endless short videos of youtube, instagram, and
       | tiktok. I have no tiktok but they've essentially recreated the
       | same crap on youtube.
       | 
       | The experience of YouTube has been pretty much completely ruined
       | for me. The content of videos seems to have gone way down too. I
       | think this may have coincided with the change in monetization
       | strategy. Seems like the quality of recommendations has gone
       | WAYYY down since then.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | It's not just you, I'm left of Democrat and end up getting
         | Jordan Peterson recommended to me. Especially on shorts. My
         | guess is the algorithm thinks I like "politics" and suggests
         | whatever "political" content it can find.
         | 
         | Besides this, I too have found the content quality declining.
         | The best content now comes from channels/creators I followed
         | years ago, while most new stuff that's being recommended is of
         | the reaction to reaction to reaction variety.
        
       | xg15 wrote:
       | Conspiracy theory: If the only remaining sorting options all bury
       | old videos, is this maybe a preparation to put old videos into
       | cold storage?
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | > _The only two possible filters on the list of videos of a
       | channel now are most recent and most popular._
       | 
       | Isn't that all there's ever been? Just chronological and
       | popularity? This post isn't very helpful unless you say what you
       | think has been removed. (I, for one, have always wished for most
       | popular over the last 30 days, but oh well.)
       | 
       | > _Also, there 's less videos on a single row now._
       | 
       | You're going to have to tell us how many there were before and
       | how many there are now. I'm not seeing any difference. It also
       | depends -- are you talking about the home page? Channel home
       | page? Channel videos tab? Because they all act differently.
       | 
       | Are you sure you just haven't changed your zoom settings or
       | something? Or your window width?
        
         | iampuero wrote:
         | I appreciated this comment, especially since this article is
         | currently near to the top of HN at the same time:
         | https://www.karlsutt.com/articles/communicating-effectively-...
        
         | animal_spirits wrote:
         | You used to be able to filter by oldest to newest which doesn't
         | look possible anymore
        
           | happyopossum wrote:
           | Err, that's sorting - not filtering. And I'm staring at a
           | YouTube channel right now and the sort options are:
           | 
           | Most Popular Date added (oldest) Date added (newest)
        
             | garblegarble wrote:
             | >Most Popular Date added (oldest) Date added (newest)
             | 
             | That's what I see too, but worth remembering that other
             | people might see totally different UI options, given the
             | number of A/B tests that Google run
        
           | jjice wrote:
           | Was it there recently for you? I hadn't seen that option on a
           | channel's list of videos for what must be years now.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | There was an "oldest" filter too. Especially necessary for
         | today's YouTube for us to revisit channels that once used to be
         | good but then gradually fell into dark patterns like everyone
         | else in the industry.
        
           | swyx wrote:
           | you can add it back in since it just takes a url param.
           | (until they break this too of course)
           | 
           | https://github.com/sw-yx/youtube-browser-extension
        
             | jasode wrote:
             | Fyi... the url params in that source code[1] no longer
             | work:                 const urls = {         popular:
             | `?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid`,         oldest:
             | `?view=0&sort=da&flow=grid`,         newest:
             | `?view=0&sort=dd&flow=grid`,       }
             | 
             | Which means the following url modification with _"
             | &sort=da"_ will _not work_ in an attempt to list the oldest
             | videos first: https://www.youtube.com/c/veritasium/videos?v
             | iew=0&sort=da&f...
             | 
             | [1] from https://github.com/sw-yx/youtube-browser-
             | extension/blob/e76f...
        
               | ffwd wrote:
               | I slapped together a really quick script to get oldest
               | videos via Youtube API. It goes through all the videos
               | from a playlist ID and then writes them to a html file
               | with oldest first. Looks like this:
               | https://i.imgur.com/ZxCgnBY.png Not perfect but works ok
               | 
               | https://github.com/n0x5/scripts/blob/master/youtube_api_u
               | plo...
               | 
               | Need an API key and also the Uploads playlist ID from the
               | channel which can use this script to get: https://github.
               | com/n0x5/scripts/blob/master/youtube_get_uplo...
               | 
               | It's a little convoluted I might implement get uploads id
               | right into the script but the issue is it doesn't always
               | return the correct channel when searching by name, in
               | which case one has to manually go through the results and
               | find the right channel id which would take longer to code
               | to actually work all the time.
        
           | ricardobayes wrote:
           | Good product design is not based on personal preferences,
           | it's data/usage-driven. Having an unused feature is bloat
           | that takes away important dev/QA resources.
        
             | Tryk wrote:
             | I disagree. Good product design is faithful and doesn't
             | change every time someone does an A/B test
        
             | AlexandrB wrote:
             | Depends what you mean by "the product". If the product is a
             | content platform where the main purpose is serving ads,
             | then I agree. If you're trying to build a "bicycle for the
             | mind" that actually empowers the user then removing seldom
             | used, but useful features will kill the thing. I can
             | imagine what A/B tested Vim would look like.
        
               | kspacewalk2 wrote:
               | >I can imagine what A/B tested Vim would look like.
               | 
               | Much more intuitive to learn?
        
               | bcrosby95 wrote:
               | A vim A/B test blindly adhered to would make it so any
               | key pressed quit vim.
        
               | a9h74j wrote:
               | I want Clippy for Emacs. "It looks like you are trying do
               | define a new mode. May I help with that?"
        
         | jasode wrote:
         | _> Isn't that all there's ever been? Just chronological and
         | popularity? _
         | 
         | Youtube old UI "SORT BY" option had _" Date added (oldest)"_ :
         | https://imgur.com/a/9czAAiv
         | 
         | Youtube new UI removed "oldest" option and only has _" Recently
         | uploaded"_ : https://imgur.com/a/aSAhxLC
         | 
         | (Apparently, the new javascript for Youtube hasn't propagated
         | to all worldwide servers yet which is why I was able to get
         | screenshots of both the old & new UI by using different
         | computers.)
        
       | jraph wrote:
       | Invidious is an acceptable interface to YouTube.
       | 
       | Some things are missing, like searching and queuing videos while
       | watching one (I guess adding this feature could be a weekend
       | project), but there's no ads, you can listen to video without
       | downloading the video part, it does not stop after a while, and
       | is quite lightweight. You can subscribe to channels and there's
       | no magic happening in the videos you actually see, nor any need
       | for a Google account. The information density is correct. You
       | don't wait before a skeleton while the interface loads, because
       | it's instant. SponsorBlock works with it too.
       | 
       | I can recommend. It might not be very sexy, but its interface
       | design is not driven by commercial reasons and does not follow
       | the oversimplification trend.
        
         | onemoresoop wrote:
         | Likewise, I recommend Invidious, it's clean and sane. There are
         | a lot of things missing but that's a feature not a bug.
        
         | rexreed wrote:
         | I am a big user of Invidious as well. The biggest issue is the
         | lack of subtitling, especially foreign language subtitles.
         | Also, the lack of playlist support. Those things often force me
         | back to YouTube when I need to view a video with english
         | language subtitles. Is there any way to get subtitles into the
         | Invidious interface?
        
       | beanjuiceII wrote:
       | I feel like many Google UI's have been getting progressively
       | worse... I used to watch my movies on google play..now i have no
       | idea where they have gone... in the web i can still access via
       | play, but phone app not there?! no idea what this company is
       | doing left and right hand aren't in sync
        
         | gibbonsrcool wrote:
         | I was just thinking the same thing this morning using the Play
         | Store dev console, which reminded me of Cloud console.
         | Everything is randomly jumbled into a bunch of menus on the
         | left. I can't remember where anything is.
        
         | superkuh wrote:
         | Definitely. Were you aware that Google search will never return
         | more than 400 results? Most people don't run into this because
         | they use the default of 10 results per page and it takes 38
         | pages. But I use 100 per page and that's only 3 page of
         | results. I can (and do) scan through that in under a minute.
         | http://googlesearchonlyreturns400results.lol/
         | 
         | Google search has been severely gimped. And it's not alone.
         | Bing too will only ever return under 900 results. The days of
         | surfing the web are over. The tools to do so no longer exist.
         | Now the searchable web it's just whatever has been posted on a
         | corporate walled garden in the last year.
        
           | yupper32 wrote:
           | I've literally never in my life needed more than 400 results.
           | What could you possibly be doing where you need over 400
           | results?
           | 
           | Severely gimped? Are you sure your use case doesn't just
           | represent an extremely extremely small percentage of users?
        
             | superkuh wrote:
             | I'm absolutely sure that people who actually search the
             | internet are so few that google does not think serving them
             | is profitable. That's what I'm saying. Most people are like
             | you and only click the first couple results.
             | 
             | And this is a terrible situation. There's an entire
             | generation of people that can never learn how to search,
             | even if they wanted to, since it is no longer available.
        
       | blondin wrote:
       | how else did you filter uploaded videos? i don't remember what
       | the other options are. also, the new UI is faster on my old 10 yo
       | machine.
        
         | baud147258 wrote:
         | you could also filter by oldest first.
        
           | guerrilla wrote:
           | It's so annoying that they keep removing ways to watch a
           | channel from it's beginning. This isn't the first time. Do
           | you not want me to spend more time watching videos, YouTube?
        
         | replygirl wrote:
         | In the dropdown there was oldest, and they had been playing
         | with a shorts/videos toggle
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I love how everything keeps getting "condensed". Tweets took
           | us to 140 characters, but then doubled. Vines took video to
           | short short short segments, then everyone else followed.
           | Eventually, we're going to have some SV darling of a startup
           | release a new app called Frmz that only allows for 1 frame
           | video segments. They're going to try to release a photo app
           | as a video app and the sheeple will fall over themselves
           | trying to become the next big video influencer. Some VC
           | trying to challenge SoftBank will go big on Framz and the
           | hype will be insane.
        
       | deorder wrote:
       | Lately I often have trouble finding the date/time a youtube video
       | was posted. Sometimes I find it when I open the description box,
       | but not always.
        
       | petargyurov wrote:
       | Am I the only one who uses YouTube like this:
       | 
       | * Only go on the Subscriptions page; I've never once visited the
       | "Home" page
       | 
       | * Blocked the Recommended Videos sidebar using uBlock
       | 
       | * Use SponsorBlock
       | 
       | * Use uBO filters to remove Shorts from Subscriptions page
       | 
       | I come to watch what I want, not get all the clickbait on the
       | side.
        
         | dont__panic wrote:
         | You go to the subscriptions page? I've been subscribed to
         | channel RSS feeds for a year or so now, never even go to
         | YouTube to "browse" because the interface is so awful.
         | 
         | I'd like to figure out how to filter Shorts from my RSS feeds,
         | but my preferred channels almost never use them so it hasn't
         | been a big deal. The only other annoyance is live streams,
         | which seem to debut on my RSS feed several hours before they're
         | actually live (with no clear information about the "live-iness"
         | of the video).
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | qull wrote:
        
         | tiborsaas wrote:
         | With this many extensions you could write your own frontend :)
        
           | timbit42 wrote:
           | Like NewPipe?
        
         | andreyk wrote:
         | I also usually watch from subscriptions (I am subscribed to
         | 100s of channels). But I do like the home page and
         | recommendations for discovering new channels! In my experience
         | it actually captures what I like to watch a lot (perhaps
         | because I subscribe to a lot of stuff and like many videos).
        
         | justnotworthit wrote:
         | Set aside the custom uBO filters and add "Remove Youtube
         | Suggestions" to your arsenal. You can block a huge array of UI
         | elements.
         | 
         | I too only do subscriptions, watch everything my subscribed
         | channels put out by placing them in my playlists (custom watch
         | later lists for attention spans/activies), and only find other
         | channels through my current channels. If you don't watch
         | everything from specific channels (some big ones really pump
         | them out), I recommend PocketTube's Subscription manger (and
         | playlist manager).
         | 
         | Youtube hates us. It takes away tools for us to watch how you
         | and I want, and refuses to add basic tools to playlists like
         | "removed all watched" and "sort by length". I'm subscribed
         | "watch later" still exists. They want you to just watch
         | "recommended" videos one after the other like tik-tok-
         | television.
        
         | Pmop wrote:
         | I do the same thing. I also have search/watch history turned
         | off.
        
         | thewebcount wrote:
         | I use it like this:
         | 
         | * Never go to https://youtube.com to find anything. Only go to
         | YouTube when it's a known link you found on another site. I
         | don't need recommendations or ads
         | 
         | * Copy the URL, paste it into yt-dlp
         | 
         | * Wait a few seconds for the video to download and watch it in
         | my viewer of choice with no crap attached.
        
           | opan wrote:
           | To add to this, you can directly play stuff in mpv if yt-dlp
           | is installed and in your PATH.
           | 
           | Combine this with a window manager shortcut to open the
           | clipboard contents in mpv and the experience is pretty slick.
           | 
           | You can also dump the URLs in a .m3u file and watch a bunch
           | in a row with mpv that way.
        
         | blfr wrote:
         | I use SponsorBlock and uBlock quite heavily but you're missing
         | out on Home. The recommendations are surprisingly good.
         | 
         | For me, it basically takes a guess what topics and themes I
         | find interesting and pulls content around them. Automatic
         | notifications are also pretty good.
         | 
         | YouTube figured out that I like interviews on a certain channel
         | and nothing else, or Ukraine war updates from another channel
         | but not their regular content. Probably through simple similar
         | audience trick but solid selection nevertheless.
         | 
         | For whatever reason, it cannot apply this knowledge to shorts
         | which are dreadfully bad.
        
           | spookthesunset wrote:
           | > Ukraine war updates from another channel but not their
           | regular content
           | 
           | Speaking of search and YouTube UI... are you talking about
           | that veteran guy who occasionally does coverage on Ukraine
           | but keeps a level head. He will often point out why it is
           | important to think about why your enemy is doing what it is
           | doing. And he uses some open source map to show what is going
           | on?
           | 
           | ...and the rest of his content seems to be reviews of
           | military related things, or something else that has nothing
           | to do with Ukraine?
           | 
           | Cause yeah I'm subscribed to that guy, I think... but I
           | totally forget what his channel is and don't seem to be
           | getting any recommendations for his videos anymore.
        
             | blfr wrote:
             | It's a Polish travel channel "Podroze bez paszportu" which
             | has taken up these updates after the war turned hot again
             | so probably not the one you're thinking of.
        
             | loufe wrote:
             | Was it something like S2underground? I noticed he dropped
             | off the edge of the map in the last 2 months or so, as
             | well.
        
           | lovingCranberry wrote:
           | I find the recommendations genuinely horrible. I only get
           | channels like real life lore, Adam Something etc, with
           | sometimes very shallow takes at politics. And after marking
           | those channels with "I don't want to see this", I get their
           | hundreds of copycats.
           | 
           | I mostly watch channels like Aswath Damodaran, mCoding, etc.,
           | which are not related to the contents of the mentioned
           | channels at all, yet their recommendation engine still shows
           | me all this stuff.
        
             | maphew wrote:
             | Talking with friends: some report most recommendations
             | align with their interests, even those that are surprising
             | because they haven't expressed interest in that category
             | (hadn't yet watched or liked a video in the theme). However
             | like you other friends report routinely aweful
             | recommendations across the board. My experience is in the
             | middle somewhere.
             | 
             | I wish there were a way to see how it places you in various
             | demographics, with a corresponding 'slider' to move
             | yourself in/out of topics.
        
               | sph wrote:
               | Most or my recommendation are OK, but after 10 or so,
               | Youtube starts recommending MMA videos, football, the
               | latest K-Pop song, "I am pregnant!" trending crap. None
               | of it is relevant, I keep telling it I am not interested
               | yet Youtube keeps recommending trending topics.
               | 
               | It just doesn't bloody care.
               | 
               | I added another reminder on my todo list to get rid of
               | Premium and go rogue. My biggest issue is watching it on
               | Android TV and the iPad, I will need a good adblocking
               | setup, no way in hell I will watch ads.
        
         | jcpst wrote:
         | This is interesting to me- I'm curious to hear how people use
         | it. I do one of two things:
         | 
         | - search duckduckgo, go to the "videos" tab, then I end up on
         | youtube if that's where the video is.
         | 
         | - go to youtube.com, use the search, pick the video.
         | 
         | - I don't ever like/subscribe/comment on anything.
        
           | augustuspolius wrote:
           | I have removed all feeds from the homepage, all recommended
           | feeds, all comments, all video overlays with uBO. History is
           | disabled, watch later hidden. I hardly ever use search
           | directly on YT.
           | 
           | The easiest way for me not to get consumed by trash is to
           | proactively hide it. I leaned that I have low self control
           | when it comes to data consumption, so I block everything I
           | identify as dangerous.
        
             | jeanlucdebran wrote:
             | for mostly the same reasons, I tend to use `yt-dlp`; I go
             | on a quick foray to look for what I _really_ (and
             | rationally, not dopamine-driven) want, get them all locally
             | (wrote a script to batch them) and then I watch without any
             | ads and far away from temptations :)
        
           | marssaxman wrote:
           | Same for me. In addition, I exclusively browse YouTube in a
           | private window, so they will have a harder time trying to
           | compile a profile of my interests.
        
           | HurdsTimesNear wrote:
           | do this instead:
           | 
           | site:youtube.com <your_searchterm>
        
             | HurdsTimesNear wrote:
             | or like so: !yt <your_searchterm> !gv <your_searchterm>
        
               | jcpst wrote:
               | Thanks! I forget that's a thing, even though I have
               | muscle memory to use the bang notation to search !npm
        
           | godshatter wrote:
           | I follow a link from a local page of bookmarks I curate
           | usually into a creators videos tab using firefox in private
           | mode. I don't log in ever. I might click on some recommended
           | videos in the sidebar, but a handful of videos later and the
           | recommendations have jumped the shark and it's time to open a
           | new window. If I happen on a new creator, I add a link to
           | their videos tab on their main page to my list of bookmarks.
        
         | lalopalota wrote:
         | Enhancer for Youtube lets me setup the UI the way I like it.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I'm not as extreme, but >90% of my YouTube watching is via the
         | channel RSS feeds (which I get sent to my email and filtered
         | into "Videos" and "Videos Background" folders). Then 10% of the
         | time if I am out of subscribed videos and want to see something
         | new I scroll the homepage. I find that I rarely appreciate the
         | recommendations below the videos but sometimes the homepage is
         | ok.
        
         | snird wrote:
         | Yes, you probably are one of a tiny group.
         | 
         | Youtube power is in its recommendation engine. I discovered
         | amazing content through this engine. You say you come to watch
         | what you want, but how do you initially fill the "subscription"
         | page without exploring first?
         | 
         | There can be various levels of exploring. Maybe visiting the
         | home page only once a month. But the distribution capabilities
         | are what makes Youtube what it is.
        
           | HWR_14 wrote:
           | Is the recommendation engine more than just "Currently
           | watching X - people who watch X usually watch Y next"?
           | 
           | I say that because, as someone who does not sign into
           | YouTube, I have no idea if it gets more complex.
        
           | kevincox wrote:
           | The recommendations for me are trash. They are 50% videos
           | that I have watched and 40% videos that I have had
           | recommended and scrolled past before. Most of the 10% of new
           | stuff is just clickbait trash.
           | 
           | Every once in a while after scrolling for a while it gives me
           | a "Want something new?" link and then the recommendations are
           | fanatic but that feed has no bookmarkable URL or reliable way
           | to get to it.
        
           | antisthenes wrote:
           | > I discovered amazing content through this engine
           | 
           | Did you actually discover it through youtube's algorithms and
           | discovery engine or was it linked to you by friends and you
           | simply watched it on Youtube?
           | 
           | These are completely different things in this context.
           | 
           | > But the distribution capabilities are what makes Youtube
           | what it is.
           | 
           | Hold on, I thought it was the recommendation engine? Which is
           | it? Distribution is about economies of scale and good
           | engineering, recommendation is about putting the user first,
           | rather than monetization.
        
           | naikrovek wrote:
           | agree. a lot of people I've known who say "there is nothing
           | good on YouTube" either ignore or outright block recommended
           | videos from showing up. there are centuries of videos worth
           | watching on YouTube, and the more you tell YouTube what you
           | like (by watching) the better it gets at recommending things
           | you like.
        
             | bavell wrote:
             | My recommendations have become such an echo chamber that it
             | actively pushes me away from using YT. It's frustrating
             | scrolling through rows and rows of the same rehashed
             | content from mostly the same network of creators. I wish I
             | could turn the dial down on similar content and ratchet up
             | interesting but unrelated content.
        
             | mtone wrote:
             | When I check my recommended feed it's all stuff very
             | closely related stuff to my subscriptions and recent views,
             | and some useless shorts. It's just an echo chamber at this
             | point.
             | 
             | If I'm looking for potentially interesting content outside
             | my core subscription views, I'm better served by turning on
             | FM radio.
        
               | wruza wrote:
               | I actually want it to stop "recommending" and be a year
               | 200x youtube when you could randomly stumble upon
               | something interesting and follow it. Today's youtube
               | really feels like a chamber, a very secure one.
        
             | wruza wrote:
             | I deleted my youtube account last month and started new one
             | because it stuck in a loop of feeding me bs I don't like. I
             | don't know where do you find good recommendations there,
             | for me it's still the same bs. Maybe I am too picky, maybe
             | you just like what it recommends, but I don't. I guess if
             | an engine makes enough users happy, it may be called good,
             | but not for the other 5%.
             | 
             | For example I watched and subscribed to PBS ST to kick
             | start. It instantly flooded my feed with low-quality sci-
             | pop with "pro voice actors" voices and stupid sensational
             | topics like "shocking alien planet" or "will our sun
             | explode tomorrow? Emoji emoji emoji". No astrophysics was
             | recommended yet. Yesterday I searched for and binge-watched
             | about hyena clan relationships, today it recommended me two
             | quran surahs for good sleep, few colorful open-mouth-
             | sensation morons (not sure which topic they were trying to
             | "wow") and a very badly compiled drama about different snow
             | leopards chasing goats. And that's while I'm holding my
             | finger on "not interested" trigger for weeks.
             | 
             | What am I doing wrong?
        
           | burkaman wrote:
           | I use Youtube as more of a delivery channel than a platform,
           | kind of like podcasts. I listen to a fair number of podcasts
           | and to be honest I have no idea where I found most of them, I
           | guess word of mouth? Or maybe linked from some article I read
           | a long time ago? It definitely wasn't from any
           | recommendations engine, although my podcast app does have a
           | "Browse" section that I've never used.
           | 
           | I don't think it's necessarily bad to use the automated
           | recommendations but there are certainly other ways to
           | discover new content.
        
         | groovybits wrote:
         | Personally, the majority of my Home page are videos from my
         | subscribed channels. I get the occasional suggestions for
         | related content from other channels, but I'd say 8/10 times the
         | suggestions are good ones for me.
         | 
         | My typical usage is:
         | 
         | * Go to Home page * Add highly relevant videos to my Watch
         | Later playlist * View the videos from Watch Later, like/dislike
         | as appropriate * Rinse and repeat
         | 
         | I'm trying to give Shorts a shot. I particularly like them for
         | viewing podcast shorts, but I've noticed the suggestions are
         | taking a longer time to give me 'relevant' videos. Some of the
         | Shorts are totally random, while others are from my Subscribed
         | channels. I make sure to like/dislike as appropriate, and I've
         | noticed a slight improvement in a week's time.
        
           | Kubuxu wrote:
           | There is one primary reason why I don't watch shorts, you
           | cannot adjust speed of them (I watch most YT at 2.5x speed).
        
             | auxermen wrote:
             | On desktop you can use a script that redirects you to
             | normal video UI instead of the shorts one and you can
             | change the speed there:
             | https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/439993-youtube-shorts-
             | redi...
        
         | forgotmypw17 wrote:
         | I blocked the domain which serves thumbnail images.
         | 
         | Pages are amazingly clean now.
         | 
         | When I mouseover a video with an interesting title, the preview
         | appears.
        
           | wingerlang wrote:
           | Seems excessive IMO. Many videos have good thumbnails, better
           | than the titles.
        
             | forgotmypw17 wrote:
             | I don't know how to define excessive in this case, but it
             | made the website much more tolerable for me, and I'm
             | grateful for being able to do it.
             | 
             | The thumbnails are very distracting, and I found it hard to
             | pay attention to the video playing on screen.
             | 
             | I don't miss the thumbnails at all, not one bit.
        
               | augustuspolius wrote:
               | Interesting idea, I will try that. I have disabled almost
               | everything I could on YT (feeds, comments, video
               | overlays, recommendations, history), but occasionally
               | still encounter the horrible twisted-face-pointing-finger
               | thumbnails.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | My only interaction with youtube is clicking on a link from
         | another site, or searching for something on google and clicking
         | on the link from their. I never navigate within youtube, nor
         | click on any other videos.
        
           | _jal wrote:
           | Don't forget dismissing the ads, and then the login nag, and
           | then ad to subscribe, so the video is actually visible.
           | 
           | ...all of which serve to remind me what a pit of suck the
           | service is, and ensure I never subscribe.
           | 
           | And the cycle of life is complete.
        
         | HurdsTimesNear wrote:
         | I block out all comments. Those are likely all bots or people
         | indistinguishable from bots, I use grease monkey and a
         | javascript script to block it out, I also use another one to be
         | able to increase the playback speed beyond the arbitrary 2x
         | limit.
         | 
         | But getting the clean google-videos layout which was just a
         | video player and a search bar can be done entirely with ublock
         | :D
        
           | naikrovek wrote:
           | > I block out all comments. Those are likely all bots or
           | people indistinguishable from bots
           | 
           | definitely not. there are very few bots in YouTube comments
           | these days, though there certainly are some.
           | 
           | there is a LOT of brown-nosing, though.
           | 
           | I don't watch ultra-popular stuff, so what I see is different
           | from what you will see, necessarily.
        
           | dmitriid wrote:
           | Depends on the video. In DiabloLOL series there will always
           | be someone breaking down all references second by second.
           | 
           | In gameplay and game streaming videos you'll find useful
           | tidbits and hints on how to play a game.
           | 
           | etc.
        
         | jeanlucdebran wrote:
         | .. and in addition, why not use yt-dlp (or similar) to watch
         | without the zillion ads and in full control of when and what
         | you consume?
        
         | poetril wrote:
         | This is exactly how I browse as well. I have uBlock hiding all
         | links that could possibly lead me to the home page, as well the
         | sidebar, and post video recommendations. The only content I
         | consume is from the 'Subscriptions' page.
        
         | kleer001 wrote:
         | I don't. I'm so off the chart in personality trait openness I
         | have to see new stuff all the time. And not just any new stuff.
         | It's annoying.
        
         | princevegeta89 wrote:
         | "Try YouTube TV. "
         | 
         | This popup always shows up in my account no matter how many
         | times I dismiss it. Very annoying.
         | 
         | Any way to remove this with uBO? I tried a few ways but it
         | ended up not working well
        
           | garblegarble wrote:
           | Related: what I've been doing with the incessant "we need
           | your consent" popups on incognito tabs is to write a
           | tampermonkey script that on page load searches and auto-
           | clicks the refuse / dismiss button, the same approach might
           | work for your issue? Crazy this is the sort of nonsense we
           | have to resort to in order to make Google products usable...
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Did they ever fix the problem that prevented having both a
           | YouTube Premium and YouTube TV subscription on the same
           | account?
        
         | aendruk wrote:
         | > Only go on the Subscriptions page
         | 
         | For this I just use the web feeds. Creators are free to hop
         | platforms and my workflow won't need to change.
        
         | aquir wrote:
         | How can you block Shorts using uBO? Tried a few methods but
         | none of them worked!
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | I do all of the above, except the Shorts filter because I
         | didn't know how to do that. Would you be willing to share this?
         | 
         | YouTube is so much better when you remove all the little
         | overlays and dark-patterns meant to get you to watch _something
         | else_ at all times.
        
         | jrmann100 wrote:
         | An extra shoutout to "DF Tube (Distraction Free)" extensions[0]
         | which have some of those UI zappers pre-programmed.
         | 
         | I use YouTube like this! Definitely going to implement some of
         | your suggestions.
         | 
         | [0]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/df-tube-
         | distractio...
        
         | dymk wrote:
         | It might be because I've got a large and diverse enough set of
         | channel subscriptions, but the Home page is surprisingly good
         | at recommending good quality new channels and videos.
         | 
         | I don't think I could use YT without SponsorBlock and uBO. The
         | SponsorBlock outage of the last few days really made me aware
         | how much time is wasted on those sponsored segments, intro
         | reels, and interaction reminders.
         | 
         | I _love_ it when videos have a SB  "skip to highlight"
         | timestamp -that 10 minute video of the creator rambling on and
         | on is now a 10 second video of the slow-motion moneyshot.
        
         | HurdsTimesNear wrote:
         | You can watch all your youtubes on vlc: just press open network
         | stream and copy paste the link. this gives you more features
         | through vlc than you can shake a stick at...
        
         | kevinfiol wrote:
         | Nope! I did almost exactly what you described before ejecting
         | altogether and consuming my subscriptions via RSS + a static
         | site I generate hourly (linked in a top-level comment).
         | 
         | I recognize that people value YouTube for it's recommendation
         | engine. That was never the draw for me; I just want a place to
         | watch videos from creators I like. Overall, I found the
         | recommendations to not work for me; they were overall noisy and
         | distracting. Someone asked me once "well how do you find new
         | content?", which I found hilarious.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | I'm the other way round: I _do_ use the recommendation engine,
         | but I click "not interested" on anything that isn't a music
         | video and make sure to only have music videos in my likes. Oh
         | and of course adblock. Newpipe for mobile.
         | 
         | This works OK, although it tends to promote the same things
         | over and over, seemingly at random.
        
         | ClassyJacket wrote:
         | YouTube is also unbearable without Clickbait Remover For
         | Youtube. It changes the thumbnails to a frame from the video.
         | 
         | Linus' channel is particularly horrible without this.
         | 
         | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/clickbait-rem...
        
           | yewenjie wrote:
           | Ah! This is very useful. I hate those over-the-top
           | expressions in the thumbnails.
        
       | guilamu wrote:
       | Imho, Freetube is the best way to use YouTube.
        
       | ilyt wrote:
       | I gave up long time ago and just used RSS feeds from channels I
       | subscribe.
       | 
       | I am fully convinced the only reason RSS still works is that
       | someone at YT forgot the feature exists and so it didn't get
       | fucked with from when YT subscription panel was still working.
        
         | delecti wrote:
         | The /feed/subscriptions page has also very consistently worked
         | as a reverse-chronological feed of your subscriptions the whole
         | time.
        
       | comboy wrote:
       | Does it matter? It seem to literally throw random videos it
       | thinks you may like into the search results.
       | 
       | It is hard to process for me how could they screw simple things
       | so bad.
        
       | andybak wrote:
       | Why is there such a mania for reducing sort/finest options?
       | 
       | They carry such a small cognitive load and are of immense value
       | to many, many use cases.
       | 
       | Who decides these things?
        
         | HurdsTimesNear wrote:
         | People who's search term history looks like this:
         | 
         | <funny videos> <cats> <harry styles new gf> <steroid cycle>
         | <apple or pc>
        
         | bakugo wrote:
         | Because allowing users to control how they use the platform is
         | not viable in today's world.
         | 
         | From an engagement standpoint, the ideal Youtube is one where
         | you can't actually view a list of videos from a specific
         | channel at all. Or search for videos. Or anything really that
         | isn't just watching whatever set of videos the algorithm thinks
         | will maximize your engagement at that time.
         | 
         | The web in general is moving in this direction at a fast pace
         | and the cause for all of this is one thing: phones. That's it.
         | There's an increasingly massive number of people that spend
         | hours a day staring at their phones mindlessly scrolling
         | through tiktok, twitter, etc. to waste their time away when
         | they have nothing better to do, simply consuming whatever
         | content is fed to them, giving absolutely no thought to what
         | they're seeing beyond how much it entertains them in that
         | moment. They don't want to look for specific videos, they don't
         | want to watch a specific channel, they just want to be kept
         | busy by an algorithm. These people are insanely easy to please
         | and will consume for hours at a time, watching plenty of ads.
         | The more people start behaving like this, the more money these
         | platforms make.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | > The web in general is moving in this direction at a fast
           | pace
           | 
           | True, with an exception of Mastodon, PeerTube, Matrix and
           | other distributed networks based on free software.
        
           | zeroonetwothree wrote:
           | Sounds like you are describing the typical HN reader
        
         | ssalka wrote:
         | To many, a simpler product is more appealing to a greater
         | number of users. I feel like the idea of "convention over
         | configuration" went to an unnatural extreme in the world of
         | product design - every choice you give a user is an admission
         | that you as the creator of the app don't know what the user
         | wants in this particular case, and you have to let them tell
         | you. For this reason, you may want to stick to what you know.
         | 
         | At the same time, there is some pipe dream that the app can
         | just give the user a 100% ideal experience with virtually no
         | input on the user's part. What this really means is less
         | optionality for users who want it.
         | 
         | Lastly, in any company there are going to be people fighting
         | against complexity to keep things maintainable, scalable etc.
         | The product gets sacrificed for the organization.
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | I think it in large part comes down to how the performance
         | assessment process manages PMs at an org like Google. When
         | you're measured at work on your success in 'launching' things,
         | and the evaluation metric comes down to your personal idea
         | authorship and impact generated, there's a profound need to
         | extinguish other paths. An incremental improvement is
         | insufficient, you need to have launched / authored / designed,
         | and provided personal outsized impact. Or as an engineer,
         | played some leading role in making this vision reality. The
         | organization as a whole is _constantly_ on the hunt for these
         | units of work, because the internal metrics encourages this. X
         | launched and replaces Y is a good story to tell the promo
         | committee. Iterating on someone else 's design is career
         | suicide.
        
           | HurdsTimesNear wrote:
           | What do you do if you are in such org and your idea-less
           | manager not only steals all your ideas but also sabotages you
           | to the point where you never get to implement anything
           | yourself?
           | 
           | Are there books on how to play the game?
        
             | cmrdporcupine wrote:
             | I dunno, I was there for 10 years and never learned to
             | play. So I quit.
             | 
             | But I never had a hostile manager really. Some coworkers
             | though. Most people were more than decent.
             | 
             | It's just... a hard environment to get used to if you're
             | not inclined to think in a big-organizational way.
        
         | brezelgoring wrote:
         | I read here in HN (whatever that means to you) that Product
         | Owners in the Youtube team have an incentive to improve certain
         | metrics if they ever want to be promoted.
         | 
         | I can imagine a "Watch Later" product owner thinking that if he
         | removes a certain control, he can game the stats and say the
         | feature is seeing more use - securing his promotion.
         | 
         | We see this in public administration all the time, no reason to
         | think private enterprise would be any different.
        
           | ricardobayes wrote:
           | I wonder how do product owners get assigned to features, in
           | this case. Is it 'musical chairs'? Or at random?
        
           | conductr wrote:
           | Tend to agree. Given the actor, I'd bet they want you to
           | search multiple times instead of search once and play with
           | filters. They want you to feel lost so you are forced to
           | search.
           | 
           | Having written that, I realize my YT usage is fairly low on
           | search and I feel myself being forced towards it more and
           | more in recent months/years.
        
             | qull wrote:
        
           | pas wrote:
           | okay, but who owns filters and search and whatnot? nobody?
           | oh, okay.
        
         | eurasiantiger wrote:
         | More data = bigger indexes = much much more complexity and cost
         | involved in simple filtering.
        
           | qull wrote:
        
         | wahnfrieden wrote:
         | Usually bottom line efficiency (less surface area to maintain,
         | fewer staff needed etc) drives action more than a long tail of
         | user value. Don't ask about use case value ask about business
         | value. Don't like it, well I agree but don't be surprised that
         | companies aren't a project to deliver value to humanity.
        
         | vezycash wrote:
         | > why is there such a mania for reducing sort/finest options
         | 
         | Apple started the minimalist, option hiding, functionality
         | axing, 1984-ish control freak movement. They even got away with
         | selling phones without chargers, making $40 billion on
         | lightning cables sales.
         | 
         | Just blame Apple.
        
           | Kye wrote:
           | They still come with a Lightning to USB-C cable. I plug it
           | into my laptop when I need a quick charge and use my existing
           | lower power Lightning charger when I don't.
        
           | augustuspolius wrote:
           | Not everything is a conspiracy to make more money.
           | 
           | I don't know a single person in my bubble who needs more
           | lightning cables. I have a dozen unused lightning cables
           | already laying around.
           | 
           | I threw away every pair of headphones that came with an
           | iPhone I have ever bought. Most of mini/micro usb cables that
           | come with small electronics go into trash - I do not need
           | more cables!
        
             | spookthesunset wrote:
             | Was just thinking about how they stopped including
             | headphones. Yeah, I already have enough chargers,
             | headphones and whatever else...
             | 
             | Cynically it's probably a way to adjust for inflation or
             | whatever by keeping the same price but reducing the amount
             | of stuff you get.
        
             | alexb_ wrote:
             | >Not everything is a conspiracy to make more money.
             | 
             | ???? That's literally exactly what the point of every
             | business decision is.
        
               | afavour wrote:
               | Well, no, that's why things like government regulations
               | exist. Some business decisions are to keep within, say, a
               | government target for waste produced.
        
               | Minor49er wrote:
               | And government control over these matters is why
               | lobbyists exist
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | augustuspolius wrote:
               | There are literally people in the world that can be
               | motivated by something other than money. Some of those
               | people are involved in making business decisions. Imagine
               | that!
        
               | duxup wrote:
               | I've made business decisions.
               | 
               | It's not always a conspiracy to make more money.
        
               | HurdsTimesNear wrote:
               | You are right sometimes it is all out in the open
        
             | duxup wrote:
             | Agreed. At this point extra cables and chargers seems
             | wasteful.
             | 
             | If you need one there are plenty of options, including
             | affordable 3rd party options.
        
             | delecti wrote:
             | Agreed. I've never even owned a device that uses Lightning,
             | and I still have a small handful of Lightning cables in
             | various cable drawers.
        
           | yreg wrote:
           | >making $40 billion on lightning cables sales
           | 
           | Someone commented this yesterday but the calculation was
           | crap. What source do you have?
        
         | nabakin wrote:
         | My best, charitable guess is that their goal is to make YouTube
         | as easy to use and low-friction as possible for anyone. For all
         | of us here, using technology is second nature, but for a lot of
         | people, especially in 3rd world countries where I imagine
         | YouTube is expanding, adding another button means adding a
         | nontrivial mental overhead for those people
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | They probably ran an A/B test and whomever is in charge at
         | YouTube was thrilled that the B test resulted in people
         | clicking around more. _Engagement!_
        
         | truemotive wrote:
         | If it's no longer an option, the platform can now control that
         | lever with no indication of why. See how Facebook sorts the
         | news feed for you? Oh, it doesn't? That used to be a user
         | option right up top.
        
           | gsich wrote:
           | /?sk=h_chr still works maybe
        
         | gsich wrote:
         | Designers gonna design. Even if it's a stupid mess. I wonder
         | why nobody from Google ever shows up when there is negative
         | feedback.
         | 
         | On that hand: Google never cares about feedback, you can't
         | submit it, if you can it gets ignored.
        
           | augustuspolius wrote:
           | Not sure if you work with designers. They are not some
           | isolated partially insane org in most tech companies.
           | Decisions like that likely start with a PM, get reviewed,
           | then eng reviewed, then they run an experiment and confirm a
           | hypothesis. None of that involves going to HN to seek
           | feedback. Should they ignore an engagement increases of 3%
           | because someone has stern feedback? That's just not the
           | reality of tech.
           | 
           | Personally, I hardly use YouTube unless I follow a direct
           | link. I have also disabled all feeds, comments, and
           | suggestions using uBlock Origin.
        
             | gsich wrote:
             | Not just HN. It's the same with Mozilla. They change stuff
             | just because they feel like it. Then their metrics confirm
             | that the users like it (because they have no choice, or the
             | alternative is cumbersome). Then they pat themselves on the
             | back.
             | 
             | If you expect that people are stupid you will get stupid
             | interfaces.
        
               | augustuspolius wrote:
               | Personally I don't think they consider their users
               | stupid. The problem is in the fact that they (teams, PMs,
               | designers, engineers) exist. They have to do something.
               | And these companies keep hiring more and more, staff more
               | and more teams... So you end up with massive orgs that
               | own relatively small surfaces. They all have perf reviews
               | every few months, all have OKRs, all have the natural
               | desire to make changes, build and refactor stuff.
               | 
               | There is just no way to endlessly improve a UI. At some
               | point if you have 3K people work on it it will become a
               | hot mess.
        
             | fernmyth wrote:
             | > Should they ignore engagement increases of 3% because
             | someone has stern feedback?
             | 
             | Yes. A sane person or organization must be able to make
             | judgements that include values other than narrow metrics.
             | 
             | If your engagement numbers told you to jump off a bridge,
             | would you?
        
               | augustuspolius wrote:
               | User feedback is very unreliable. At a certain scale we
               | tend to trust usage data more. (Eg why should they care
               | more about your individual feedback than what seems like
               | an increased user satisfaction with the platform?)
               | 
               | So far I have not encountered a single big tech company
               | that is able to factor in values into decision making at
               | this level. I don't know whether we even have the tools
               | for that. The incentives (promos, bonuses), company size
               | (internal competition, changing ownership, focus on
               | growth), being public (relentless growth), etc, etc - all
               | of that contributes to this outcome.
               | 
               | Personally I prefer a more thoughtful and caring approach
               | to introducing changes, but knowing how the industry
               | works I don't see a lot of space for that.
        
       | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
       | Waddya mean?
       | 
       | https://postimg.cc/Wq3t4Fxn
        
       | ricardo81 wrote:
       | Always found it puzzling that it takes 5 clicks to remove a
       | recommendation from the homepage. 1. dots menu 2. "not
       | interested" 3. "tell us why" 4. I've already watched this video,
       | check. 5. submit.
       | 
       | No doubt there's particular reasons for not doing so, but a
       | "don't show me videos I've already seen" would be quite effective
       | for my aims.
        
         | thepasswordis wrote:
         | There needs to be a "Don't show me this _type_ of video ever
         | again. "
         | 
         | I recently watched some of the trial of the mass murderer who
         | killed a bunch of people at a parade in Wisconsin.
         | 
         | Now almost my entire youtube feed is things like "Trial lawyer
         | REACTS to Darrel Brooks VERDICT!" - just absolute click bait
         | garbage. I hate it, and I genuinely don't know how to make it
         | go away.
        
           | ricardo81 wrote:
           | That would be nice. Or in addition to 'liking', an option to
           | 'show me more like this' which can be turned off.
        
           | gs17 wrote:
           | It really needs a "topic" based system like Google News.
           | Their recommendations have serious flaws as well, but at
           | least I can see the topics a story was (potentially)
           | recommended based on and flag one as not for me. The YT
           | homepage kind of does that now, except you can't tell it
           | topics are bad.
        
       | robszumski wrote:
       | Am I crazy or did they remove 1.15x playback? That one seemed
       | like the right mix of "I don't have 30 minutes" and not skewing
       | the voices too much.
        
       | W3cUYxYwmXb5c wrote:
       | they keep making minor changes like this that invariably make
       | things worse. For me it's the loss of controls for quickly
       | removing individual videos from the Watch Later playlist.
        
       | stormdennis wrote:
       | On a tangent. I used to be able play youtube videos on firefox on
       | my old android phone with the screen turned off. It was some
       | setting in firefox that I can't seem to remember or else is no
       | longer there. It was great because you could listen to a long
       | lecture while walking using up less battery and even more
       | importantly, not inadvertently clicking on something on screen.
       | Anyone have any ideas if it's still possible?
        
         | onemoresoop wrote:
         | It's also possible with invidious[0].
         | 
         | [0]: https://invidio.us/
        
         | Toorkit wrote:
         | Last time I tried this (a few weeks ago), the procedure turned
         | out to be:
         | 
         | 1. play video
         | 
         | 2. turn off screen
         | 
         | 3. video stops, turn on screen
         | 
         | 4. pull down the menu from the top, showing a firefox
         | notification with a play button
         | 
         | 5. click play
         | 
         | 6. turn off screen again
         | 
         | This is on Android 11, YMMV.
        
         | iamsmooney wrote:
         | I think in the Android app that's only a feature for some
         | videos if you have Premium. Never tried it in the browser.
        
         | clircle wrote:
         | This works fine in Brave using a feature called 'brave
         | playlist' (or something like that)
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | This is possible on iOS with the Vinegar extension. In case you
         | are considering Apple or have family/friends with this problem
         | too.
        
         | Dx5IQ wrote:
         | You can use this Android add-on: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
         | US/firefox/addon/video-backgro...
        
         | blfr wrote:
         | It's possible with
         | 
         | 1. Youtube Vanced (deprecated but still works),
         | 
         | 2. ReVanced (in development),
         | 
         | 3. Brave mobile browser,
         | 
         | 4. NewPipe (opensource, doesn't support most account-based
         | features),
         | 
         | 5. YouTube Premium and their regular app.
        
       | DaveSchmindel wrote:
       | I feel like an old man in my own head, muttering, "I remember the
       | Sort feature like it was yesterday!"
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | I don't log into google, and I noticed the YouTube search
       | suggestions were hot garbage.
       | 
       | Anyway, I was watching a logged in friend using YouTube, and
       | realized their suggestions were equally irrelevant.
       | 
       | I wish people would mirror their videos somewhere that's more
       | archival focused and less of a spam shovel.
        
         | 0898 wrote:
         | I think this is a YouTube Premium feature now.
        
           | godshatter wrote:
           | I had naively assumed that "YouTube Premium" would add
           | functionality that users would pay for instead of leaving it
           | the same and reducing the experience for everyone else. I'm
           | apparently a moron.
        
       | dpedu wrote:
       | On youtube's desktop site, I've also noticed that sometime within
       | the last couple months the home page no longer shows the duration
       | of videos when the page loads. After 3-6 seconds, the timestamps
       | pop in. I don't know if this is intentionally or a result of
       | lazy-loading - but seeing that the video thumb, title, author,
       | view count, and age all load instantly with the page, I struggle
       | to come up with a reason it could be unintentional.
       | 
       | This bothers me because I like to know how long a video is before
       | I commit the time to sitting down and watching it. This feels
       | like an attempt at a dark pattern with the intent to improve
       | metrics - surely watch time is a metric youtube cares about.
        
         | gs17 wrote:
         | My timestamps don't pop in, they're either there immediately or
         | never show up. It's very frustrating, since I also decide what
         | to watch based on them.
        
           | staindk wrote:
           | Could be your adblocker sometimes blocking them, other times
           | not?
           | 
           | Though it probably is some bug or... rapid A/B testing thing
           | Google has going on.
        
             | gs17 wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure it's just a bug, I don't think adblock
             | caused it for me. Wouldn't put it past them to
             | intentionally break things for adblock users though.
        
         | spikej wrote:
         | Same with the 3 dots that show extra options like saving to
         | playlist. They pop in after the rest of the site has loaded.
        
           | bavell wrote:
           | They also have a tiny hotbox which encourages misclicks
           | (trying to click "Not Interested" but whoopsie, another view
           | on that video!). Dark patterns galore.
           | 
           | Edit: looks like the dots are 40x40px on desktop
        
           | RealStickman_ wrote:
           | And sometimes the save to playlist is a separate button while
           | at other times it's hidden behind the dots. I've had to
           | cancel countless clips from misclicking. (Multiple times in a
           | row even)
        
         | Octabrain wrote:
         | Another thing I've noticed in Youtube on the smart(tm) TV, is
         | that the app does not adapt the suggestions based on previous
         | searches anymore. Now it's almost entirely generic crap all the
         | time (Seriously, I am so sick of those thumbnails with the
         | surprise face. I hate them!)
         | 
         | Between the ads and the poor content, I feel like Youtube is
         | pushing hard to become the new public TV.
        
         | dom96 wrote:
         | yeah, I've noticed that timestamp thing as well. Super
         | annoying.
        
       | b34r wrote:
       | I use the YouTube app on my Tesla often and honestly this UI
       | update has been a welcome improvement so far. The like button is
       | now above the fold so I can easily tap it. It's the little things
        
       | lob_it wrote:
        
       | activitypea wrote:
       | it only ever gets worse
        
       | petargyurov wrote:
       | Has anyone experienced a bug with navigating back from a video?
       | It's been happening for months now but it's on and off.
       | 
       | When you're watching a video and you go back, the url updates but
       | the page doesn't refresh/redirect, the video just ends up
       | restarting. Very annoying.
        
         | EarthIsHome wrote:
         | This happens to me. I never realized that anything happened and
         | that the URL changed, which means I would naturally click the
         | back button _again_ , and it takes me to the previous-previous
         | page (which is usually a new tab for me). It's very
         | frustrating.
         | 
         | Edit: this happens on Firefox on Windows. I haven't tried
         | Chrome.
        
         | phs2501 wrote:
         | Yep. On Firefox, haven't tried on other browsers. At this point
         | I just hit "back, back, forward" without thinking about it when
         | I see it happen.
        
         | geo-matik wrote:
         | Happened to me as well, now I click the search button to go
         | back.
        
         | dilap wrote:
         | Yep, it's completely jacked. Very annoying. Of course, back in
         | Twitter also randomly loses your place, too. I guess it's one
         | of those "we're a big deal site now" checklist items: Fuck up
         | the back button.
        
           | dieselgate wrote:
           | In regards to what you've mentioned about hitting back on
           | Twitter and losing your scroll position - I think this is a
           | difficult technical problem so solve in an elegant and
           | reproducible way. We've attempted to address this back
           | location issue at my work for an "infinite scroll" feature
           | and can only get it right about half the time and believe
           | that's handled mostly by the browser. We've specifically
           | looked at how YouTube handles this - and it's about the same
           | success rate for them.
           | 
           | Oh well even HN will always mess up your scroll position when
           | hitting back so it goes
        
             | dilap wrote:
             | As a non-web dev, it is mystifying to me that this is hard.
             | 
             | But, taking it as true (for some arcane reason), then
             | perhaps they should change the design of their site so that
             | popping away from the timeline isn't a part of the normal
             | usage flow!
             | 
             | Specifically, if you want to expand the conversation under
             | a tweet, you tap it, which takes you to a new page; when
             | you're done, you want to continue reading your timeline. If
             | making the back button can't be made reliable, then it
             | seems a design that simply expands the thread off to the
             | right or inline below or in a popup, without leaving the
             | timeline page, would work much better.
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | Yes, also there's been a bug in comment textfields for at least
         | 3 years: press enter twice in a row and the cursor won't move
         | to the next line.
        
           | eastbound wrote:
           | Same problems in Jira: Start typing a comment, and it watches
           | the issue or change issue, because keyboard navigation isn't
           | disabled while in a field.
           | 
           | But press Cmd+K to reach the address bar, or Cmd+W to close
           | the tab: Nothing happens because Jira hijacks the keyboard.
           | 
           | It's the big site challenge: Wreck the user experience and
           | watch people who keep using it because they have to.
        
         | tiluha wrote:
         | Yes, that is very annoying. In general YouTubes UX is getting
         | worse constantly. They moved the read more button for video
         | descriptions up and to the right directly behind the end of the
         | description text, which makes it almost completely invisible.
         | Even now that i know where to look, it is still very hard to
         | find. The like button is now only an outline, which is filled
         | when active. I find this confusing, which lead to me unliking
         | and reliking a video because i could not determine the state of
         | the button visually. Was never a problem, back when the thimb
         | turned blue. The site is quite sluggish in general, at least
         | for me.
         | 
         | Overall YouTube makes for a nice example of how modern design
         | often makes the experience worse
        
           | phs2501 wrote:
           | I've seen the new "read more" button sometimes actually
           | completely be invisible... it'll come back if I force a re-
           | layout (i.e. resizing the browser).
           | 
           | But yeah the new design is pretty awful. No idea what they
           | were thinking.
        
             | ricardobayes wrote:
             | We need 'hug a web dev day' a thing. People are so harsh
             | over a button or a color these days.
        
               | phs2501 wrote:
               | To be fair everything being complained about in this
               | thread is pretty clearly broken stuff.
               | 
               | And for design, I'm actually harsh over stuff like the
               | new "top comment" box that, when clicked on, /completely
               | removes the normal comment interface/, shrinks the video,
               | and moves the comments to a new and otherwise-completely-
               | unseen comment interface to the right side of the video.
               | Which is bizarre, inexplicable user experience and a fair
               | amount worse than simply being a weird color.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | mijamo wrote:
         | On a different note I have encountered a bug where I reach a
         | page with a video title and description but the video being
         | played does not match and is instead from another one. I think
         | it has happened especially after going to a full page video
         | from the homepage when there is a video in the mini-view being
         | played and about to switch.
        
         | johtso wrote:
         | This has been driving me mad.. I'm pretty sure I only started
         | seeing this problem maybe a month ago? It's the cardinal sin.
         | Don't break the back button!
        
         | smrq wrote:
         | Yep. Firefox (seems to be a pattern in the replies). Back-back-
         | forward every time on YouTube now. It's terrible.
        
           | TremendousJudge wrote:
           | or back -> ctrl+L -> return
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | Yes. There's all sorts of bugs. The buggiest thing is the
         | queue. Each time they fix a bug it seems other weirdness pops
         | up. Having built a similar queue for the web UI of a music
         | streaming app, I know it can be complicated, but surely it
         | can't be _this_ complicated. For a while it was unusable for me
         | because I like building a queue and reordering the items, and
         | sorting didn 't work at all. The queue should be one of the
         | primary things that automated tests and QA should be able to
         | track pretty easily and be treated as first class.
        
           | a9h74j wrote:
           | I've harbored a thought which, incidentally, might also be
           | more reliably testable for QA. Rather than rely upon drag-
           | and-drop for reordering queue entries, provide explicit move-
           | up and move-down performing small buttons, one pair per
           | visible queue entry. Of course, drag-and-drop might be
           | considered visually cleaner (no visual affordances) and allow
           | for move-by-several-slots larger motions. Would that the
           | current YT UI actually _allow_ drag-and-drop-between to work
           | as expected.
        
         | NeveHanter wrote:
         | Yeah, same problem on Firefox, I've thought that this may be
         | because of one of the extensions I use, but after disabling
         | everything it was still happening...
        
         | dymk wrote:
         | Yes, I run into this all the time in Firefox
        
         | peppertree wrote:
         | Yes happens consistently with Safari. I guess YouTube engineers
         | only test on Chrome -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
           | pueblito wrote:
           | 'member when YouTube intentionally put a bug in their site to
           | mess with MS?
        
             | niuzeta wrote:
             | Wait, what?
        
               | mardifoufs wrote:
               | I wouldn't say it's a literal bug but maybe they were
               | talking about this:
               | 
               | https://blog.chriszacharias.com/a-conspiracy-to-kill-ie6
        
               | eastbound wrote:
               | This is incredible! I didn't know the story! Thank you so
               | much for finding the link, it's a great piece of history!
               | 
               | Just a reminder, at that time you couldn't do
               | console.log(), because it worked with the devtools open,
               | but "console" would be null with the devtools closed,
               | which is treacherous because it only bugged for non-dev
               | users. As a bonus, IE would ask the user whether they
               | wanted to debug.
        
       | kevinfiol wrote:
       | I gave up on the YouTube UI a while ago and now rely on a script
       | that runs every hour to generate an HTML page of my subscriptions
       | (via RSS feeds): https://kevinfiol.com/youtube/
        
         | tnorthcutt wrote:
         | Are you open to sharing the code you use to generate this?
        
           | kevinfiol wrote:
           | Sure: https://github.com/kevinfiol/youtube
           | 
           | Some things to note if you'd like to use it:
           | 
           | 1. I deploy to Github Pages via Github Actions. See
           | .github/workflows/build.yml for details. The only thing you
           | might wanna change here is the `schedule` of how often to
           | build your page
           | 
           | 2. I define my subscriptions in src/feeds.json. It's just an
           | array of tuples [name, rss_url].
           | 
           | 3. I currently redirect to an Invidious instance. You can
           | modify the `YOUTUBE_URL` const in scripts/render.js to
           | `youtube.com` if you don't care for this
           | 
           | EDIT: By the way, I also wrote this scrappy user script to
           | quickly download my youtube subscriptions as JSON: https://gi
           | st.github.com/kevinfiol/da63cd137327b8f8d6b7070601...
           | 
           | It'll just create a `get feeds` button at
           | https://www.youtube.com/feed/channels
        
         | pradn wrote:
         | This is actually fantastic. I think we need alternatives like
         | this for every other "algorithmic feed" website.
         | 
         | Twitter has become unusable and toxic for me in recent years.
         | It seems like most of the tweets are recommendations - those
         | liked by my follows or their friends. It's maddening to not
         | have control. It seems like no matter how much I try I can't
         | help but see vitriolic politics tweets, million-like jokes,
         | etc.
        
       | ducktective wrote:
       | Yes, and the cure for us users is : yt-dlp
       | 
       | I don't even do that. I use mpv + yt-dlp + SponsorBlock plugin:
       | `script-opts=ytdl_hook-ytdl_path=yt-dlp`
        
       | NotYourLawyer wrote:
       | YouTube is/was a really good YouTube. It should stop trying to be
       | a second-rate TikTok.
        
       | red2awn wrote:
       | Everything also have a rounded corner now. This is only in my A/B
       | test group though, I don't see it when in incognito.
        
       | jgworks wrote:
       | I very much dislike the "glow" behind the videos now. Its
       | constantly updating and very distracting.
        
       | andy_ppp wrote:
       | While everyone is complaining sometimes the bottom of the video
       | is cut off on mobile... this is particularly annoying in Chess
       | videos if the bottom row of white pieces is cut off.
        
       | arnaudsm wrote:
       | The Watch later UX is atrocious too :
       | 
       | - Adding : hover the video 1000ms to reveal the button
       | 
       | - Removing : 2 clicks away under a menu
       | 
       | Why hide the 2 most frequent actions? Do you even do user
       | testing?
        
         | regularjack wrote:
         | Your most frequent actions aren't necessarily everyone's. I
         | very rarely use the watch later feature. Maybe they are doing
         | user testing.
        
           | arnaudsm wrote:
           | I'm referring to the UI when you're specifically in watch
           | later mode.
           | 
           | Imagine if opening a Google result took 2 clicks, it'd be
           | infuriating.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | This has been going downhill for a while. I don't know if YT
       | engineers actually use the website. Below a certain screen width
       | the date of the video just disappears from view. The video
       | description becomes crammed to the side and is unreadable, with
       | the "more" link rendering on top of the text. This seems to be
       | (??) intentional behavior, why?
       | 
       | search has also become ... rather stupid? it shows a few results
       | and then some irrelevant "recommendations"
       | 
       | Also would be nice if they stopped pushing shorts so hard. Why
       | does youtube want to become tiktok, that is offensive to both
       | users and creators, becayse YT has a distinct use case
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | The push for shorts is somewhat ironic, because Youtube used to
         | have lots of short videos in the early days. But then Youtube
         | pushed everyone to inflate their video lengths, first with a
         | recommendation algorithm that rewarded watch time, then with
         | monetization that rewarded videos over 10 minutes (now 8
         | minutes). It took TikTok's success to show Youtube that users
         | might like shorter videos.
         | 
         | But I'm not sure where Youtube is actually going with this.
         | There's now "normal Youtube", "Shorts" and "Live" coexisting on
         | the same platform, along with Premium exclusives and Youtube
         | Music. All of them integrated somewhat awkwardly.
        
       | 3np wrote:
       | As usual, Piped is an alternative front-end made with users in
       | mind. You can self-host (persistence not necessary) or use public
       | instances.
       | 
       | Original author is the same as the equally excellent NewPiped
       | mobile app.
       | 
       | https://github.com/TeamPiped/Piped
        
         | rexreed wrote:
         | How does this differ from Invidious?
        
           | TT-392 wrote:
           | Same idea, but it also has sponsorblock and the bring
           | dislikes back thing. Also less limited resolution options.
           | They are very similar, but I generally prefer piped
        
         | ChildOfChaos wrote:
         | Thanks, i'm going to check this out.
         | 
         | I hate how youtube doesn't just show whats new from my
         | subscribed content creators, it's insane to me that instead is
         | a bunch of random crap and I miss content from the people I
         | have already told the algorithm I want to see.
         | 
         | Hoping this has a way of just showing the content from the
         | creators I want to watch, trying to have a more balance digital
         | life and remove the crap these companies put on you, while
         | keeping up to date with stuff that is interesting to me, it's
         | always a difficult battle.
        
         | brnaftr361 wrote:
         | Am I missing something, or is there no sorting option beyond
         | channel?
         | 
         | That's what drives me nuts about Youtube, is that I can't put
         | "science" youtubers in to a particular, very narrow category
         | separated from other elements. This seems like _the_ feature
         | that would make Youtube infinitely more useful. I can 't count
         | how many times I've had to bounce back and forth through the
         | shitty subscription view trying to associate some
         | infinitesimally small avatar with a tutorial video I watched
         | two months ago. Somehow I inevitably miss it, too.
         | 
         | Of course there's no incentive for Google to do this, but these
         | other guys..?
        
       | jstx1 wrote:
       | Now there's "pull up for precise seeking" which doesn't do all
       | that much but it's a new feature. And of course ambient mode
       | which doesn't do much either.
        
       | CyborgCabbage wrote:
       | Going to take this opportunity to ask if anyone else hasn't been
       | able to find any playlists in YouTube search results? Whenever I
       | filter for playlists, there is always nothing.
        
       | maphew wrote:
       | Something to keep in mind is that YouTube does A/B testing,
       | showing different interface design changes to different people
       | and then comparing the stats later.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | theduder99 wrote:
       | Same here. Since YT has been going downhill I've started
       | downloading videos and storing them offline (no not on google
       | drive for G to scan and remove in the future) in a couple spots
       | because I've seen many items in my saved lists get removed or set
       | to private over the years.
        
       | lrvick wrote:
       | Install LibRedirect and you never need to visit youtube.com
       | again.
        
       | D13Fd wrote:
       | What were they before? This post assumes a level of YouTube
       | knowledge that I lack.
        
       | HurdsTimesNear wrote:
       | SOMEBODY pls write a firefox extension that allows you to
       | simulate high engagement for any feature you pick. that way we
       | could ascertain only the stuff we like about websites get's to
       | stay and everything else goes by the wayside...
        
       | c7b wrote:
       | I recently got YT premium in response to their push, but it's
       | messed with my YT enjoyment in a somewhat unexpected way: I
       | hadn't realized to what extent I'd become used to having
       | different sets of recommendations and being able to get fresh
       | starts on recommendations by deleting cookies...
       | 
       | I've almost started to become strategic about what I click on now
       | instead of just going with whatever flow I'm enjoying right now.
       | Not sure if I'll continue the subscription after the trial if
       | they don't give us more options for managing our preferences. I
       | guess I could get a family option for myself just to get more
       | accounts, but I'll have to see.
        
         | kortex wrote:
         | Can YT premium still have multiple accounts? That's the main
         | way I manage my learned feeds.
         | 
         | I do wish there was something like "virtualenv" for youtube,
         | where it's trivial to change your preferences without changing
         | your account (which is still tied to things like subscribers
         | and comments.
        
           | c7b wrote:
           | > Can YT premium still have multiple accounts?
           | 
           | Not that I'm aware of, at least not for a single standard
           | subscription. There's a family option with up to 5 accounts
           | that might work, but it's probably not how that's meant to be
           | used, so you might run into some problems. virtualenv is a
           | good analogy, that's what I'd want as well, but I doubt that
           | we're going to get that.
        
             | cloogshicer wrote:
             | You can definitely create a new Brand account, which is
             | managed by the same Google Account. The brand account will
             | then also have premium benefits, while having its own watch
             | history.
             | 
             | This is how I use it.
             | 
             | https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/4642409?hl=en
        
               | c7b wrote:
               | Interesting, thanks!
        
       | ysavir wrote:
       | I wonder if they're A/B testing it. Yesterday I wanted to filter
       | a channel's videos and didn't see _any_ options to filter or
       | sort. Now I'm seeing the option to sort by most popular, newest
       | first, and oldest first, which is still different from your
       | experience.
       | 
       | Or maybe they just had a bug interfering with it and are still
       | getting a solution in place (if they even noticed it)
        
       | input_sh wrote:
       | That's not all, there are _some_ channels where you can 't even
       | sort by most popular anymore.
       | 
       | From what I gather they're mostly music-related ones (perhaps in
       | favour of YouTube's "most popular songs" playlists). Here's a
       | random example: https://youtube.com/c/DomDolla/videos
       | 
       | Notice there's no option to even select any type of sort.
       | 
       | It makes a _tiny bit_ of sense to use that YouTube playlist
       | instead (for example artists may upload songs to a label 's
       | channel or something), but it's still very annoying.
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | People at Google don't use Google products, YouTube in
       | particular. It is quite astonishing that so many features are
       | nonsense or not yet implemented. Why I can't search comments in
       | comments section of a video; if a video has 100+ or 1 000+
       | comments I can't easily find comments that are relevant to me.
       | Why I can't search my playlist videos and my liked videos; I have
       | 1 000+ liked videos and 1 000+ videos in my Watch Later playlist.
       | Maybe I'm disorganized with Watch Later playlist but I'm also a
       | power user which is not satisfied with only casual features. Any
       | yea you can't sort channel videos like you use to(Newest, Oldest,
       | Most Popular). Like you said it's now only Most recent and Most
       | popular. And one thing that I almost forgot, in Web version of
       | YouTube you can search channel for videos and in native mobile
       | app you can't search channel for videos. When I say search
       | channel for videos I mean query with keywords(there is no Search
       | Bar within Channel page or within Videos tab).
        
         | bavell wrote:
         | My pet theory is that they only implement features which are
         | lightweight enough to not cause significant load on their
         | backend and if it does then the feature dies right there, no
         | matter how useful. Extreme cost-focused tunnel vision.
        
           | mrkramer wrote:
           | But it doesn't make sense when you know that they have
           | billions in cash sitting in bank waiting to be spend. They
           | have the money and the knowledge to implement whatever
           | feature they need to. Backend load and infrastructure scale
           | is not a problem at this point. My somewhat simple
           | explanation is; Google wants to cater to the casual crowd so
           | hard to the point of sacrificing user experience for advanced
           | users or power users who use YouTube every day. They rather
           | prefer status quo than try to bother with more advanced
           | features. But I have to admit, they already have some pretty
           | advanced features but they need to keep pushing.
        
         | numinos1 wrote:
         | YouTube is slowly transitioning from a UGC video marketplace
         | into a modern version of cable tv. These technical oversights
         | aren't bugs. They're a deliberate effort to shape user behavior
         | and maximize advertising revenue. Old content is a liability
         | and is slowly being deprecated from the system.
        
       | opan wrote:
       | They've also hidden away the "save to playlist" button, making it
       | extra clicks to do.
        
       | running101 wrote:
       | I always feel dumb when using YouTube's apps and website. It is
       | probably the most non intuitive site I use
        
       | johndfsgdgdfg wrote:
       | I wish people would use Twitch more to make it a more viable
       | Youtube alternative. Amazon doesn't have user hostile attitude
       | like Google.
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | Don't mind all those counterfeit goods on Amazon.com.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | >Amazon doesn't have user hostile attitude like Google.
         | 
         | Yes, not user hostile is exactly NOT how I would describe
         | Amazon's trash heap that is Market
        
         | bakugo wrote:
         | Do you know what Twitch is? It's not a Youtube alternative in
         | the slightest, and it was never meant to be.
        
       | BoppreH wrote:
       | Some channels have also opted to remove sorting altogether:
       | https://www.youtube.com/user/enyatv/videos
       | 
       | I understand the desire to control how users are exposed to your
       | content, but I think these options err too much on the side of
       | removing user freedom.
        
         | swyx wrote:
         | it annoyed me too so made a chrome extension to add it back:
         | https://github.com/sw-yx/youtube-browser-extension
        
         | Jasper_ wrote:
         | Music channels are this weird, broken mess; some channels are
         | weirdly split into two under the hood and which one you get
         | depends on where in the UI you click ( try it!
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aajhC6GjK30 -- the icon and the
         | artist name right next door under the video go to two different
         | YouTube channels ). Playlists are sometimes replaced with
         | Albums except it doesn't work right, and there's a bug where
         | the infinite scroll repeats the first chunk of options forever
         | when browsing albums. I assume the lack of sorting is just an
         | oversight in the Music Artist template, because it's not like
         | they tested anything else about it.
        
         | tech234a wrote:
         | That happens a lot with music channels, which tend to aggregate
         | videos uploaded across multiple channels but are labeled as
         | coming from one channel. I'm not sure they opted to remove the
         | option.
        
       | zeroonetwothree wrote:
       | Noticed this UI change today as well and it's awful. Makes me
       | feel less bad that I canceled premium and won't be using YT
       | anymore.
        
       | guerrilla wrote:
       | Oh I see what you mean. I'm not sure I ever used those filters so
       | I don't know what it was before... but the overall frontpage
       | seems to keep getting less enjoyable. Shorts, which I'll never
       | watch, taking up tons of room and less videos. I'm not conscious
       | of all the differences, but it sure was better before...
        
       | minraws wrote:
       | Seconded those pills make me want to commit murder... It's really
       | annoying then there is randomly adjusting css on the home page,
       | they have over done stuff in the name of mobile first.
        
         | holler wrote:
         | the pill/rounded corners make it feel plushy, but are
         | discordant with the square edges of the rectangular video,
         | overall making the design feel off.
        
       | AtNightWeCode wrote:
       | The funny thing is that Google brags about the science behind
       | their UX and then they have complete garbage UX like Youtube and
       | libs like material design. I also wonder if the Youtube mobile
       | app testers are minors or have transparent fingers.
        
       | notsahil wrote:
       | You can try Invidious it's an open source alternative front-end
       | to YouTube. https://docs.invidious.io/instances/
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | everdrive wrote:
       | Eventually, YouTube will degrade to the point where it's not
       | worth using. If you know of any truly precious videos up there,
       | I'd start downloading them now.
        
         | branon wrote:
         | This is really important. I've got 700 GB (and growing) of
         | archived YouTube videos. Started downloading them a few months
         | ago because I had noticed older stuff disappearing.
         | 
         | Who knows how many videos in my specific sub-interest (ASMR
         | videos, for the curious) are already lost forever. I try not to
         | think about that. I've got a representative sample archived and
         | am working to keep up with the new stuff that gets posted.
         | Anything added to the archive is picked up by Jellyfin for
         | later perusal. From here I can create playlists, tweak
         | metadata, etc...
         | 
         | A video or two being taken down for creative reasons by the
         | author is one thing. YouTube making executive decisions to
         | delist videos or channels is entirely different.
         | 
         | Google has had it too good for too long with YouTube being the
         | de-facto video host of the Internet. Society at large is at
         | fault for buying in so completely.
         | 
         | I just want important examples of an interesting art form to
         | stand the test of time. And if you want something done right...
        
         | blueflow wrote:
         | I'm using https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp to download my
         | favorite videos, and after years of using it, its worth the
         | effort. Many good memories would have been inaccessible
         | otherwise.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | I've started just in the last couple weeks. Series with
           | entries on thetvdb or imdb go on Jellyfin, mixed in with
           | ordinary TV shows. Works great. Others I'm squirreling away
           | for now (I don't like how Jellyfin handles web videos that
           | don't have a TV metadata entry, even with the 3rd part addon
           | for using Youtube's metadata, so I'm waiting for a better
           | solution or until I get bored and write my own metadata for
           | those others)
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | To expand on this, setup one of the various yt-dlp "servers"
           | (It's just software, often in a docker container. I have an
           | old one that uses youtube-dl, I need to update it) where you
           | can post over to them and it will download the video and drop
           | it in a folder somewhere. Then setup a Shortcut (iOS),
           | bookmarklet, etc so that on any platform you are on, you are
           | 1 click away from kicking off a download. Then sort/organize
           | those videos as you see fit at a later date.
           | 
           | Bonus points for putting your intake folder in a place your
           | media server can see.
        
             | ericd wrote:
             | Sounds great. Any shortcut/bookmarklet code or pointers to
             | servers to share? I'm sure readers could set that up
             | themselves, but time/attention are always limited
             | resources.
        
               | joshstrange wrote:
               | Something like this: https://github.com/frznman/yt-dlp-
               | server
               | 
               | In my case I stuck my instance (not that exact software
               | but similar) behind Caddy and added basic auth. Then I
               | just setup Shortcuts or bookmarklets that just did:
               | curl -X POST --data-urlencode "url={{url}}"
               | http://{{address}}:8080/yt/q
               | 
               | Where {{url}} was the current page I was on and
               | {{address}} was where my instance was available (with
               | username:password added to it, example:
               | "https://user:pass@ytdlp.mydomain.com/yt/q").
        
               | ericd wrote:
               | Thanks very much! Going to add that to our NAS.
        
       | blancNoir wrote:
       | What's been driving me nuts is they took away the ability to
       | toggle comments to the right of the video, so you could scroll
       | them while viewing instead of having comments below the video
       | necessitating scrolling the video out of view while reading
       | comments. I thought that toggle was relatively new too.
        
         | mrkramer wrote:
         | You can still do it in YouTube Android app as far as I know.
         | Open video, tap that little empty square in the bottom right
         | corner and your video will be rotated to the horizontal
         | position(view) and then tap that little comments box[0] in the
         | bottom left corner(third icon).
         | 
         | [0] https://i.imgur.com/vDzDrio.jpg
        
       | clircle wrote:
       | What filter/sorter was removed?
        
       | villgax wrote:
       | Despite having premium there is just no way to get rid of Shorts
       | everywhere. It is the worst form of content which deliberately
       | removes the seekbar & is not enough to convey anything
       | meaningful. It's basically video reddit but minus the option
       | delve further into the content.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-28 23:02 UTC)