[HN Gopher] Factorio for Nintendo Switch is now available
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Factorio for Nintendo Switch is now available
        
       Author : ibobev
       Score  : 285 points
       Date   : 2022-10-28 11:46 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (factorio.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (factorio.com)
        
       | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
       | I can't imagine playing this on a Switch without the controls
       | getting really annoying?
        
         | rgoulter wrote:
         | The announcement post suggests it's slower, but comfortable
         | (once you get used to it).
         | 
         | https://factorio.com/blog/post/factorio-on-nintendo-switch
         | 
         |  _Factorio was developed for 10 years with only keyboard and
         | mouse in mind, so making sure the game is fully playable with
         | controllers was no easy task. Playing with a controller is
         | slightly slower, and will take some getting used to (just as it
         | does when playing with keyboard and mouse for the first time).
         | After becoming familiar with it, I find it very comfortable. I
         | recommend everyone to play through the first levels of our
         | tutorial campaign, as it 's a great way to get acquainted with
         | playing Factorio with a controller._
        
       | mdtrooper wrote:
       | Is it a news? Well, maybe in typical gaming website, but is it a
       | hacker news?
        
         | dima_vm wrote:
         | Factorio is a very hackerish game.
        
         | notfish wrote:
         | Factorio is like meth for hacker brains; this post is just a
         | PSA that we need to lock our switches away if we want to be
         | productive.
        
         | numlock86 wrote:
         | > Tell us you never played Factorio without telling us you
         | never played Factorio.
        
       | bertil wrote:
       | Ask you project lead if they can do without you for the next few
       | months before starting to play Factorio. This game is very
       | addictive
        
         | ilyt wrote:
         | Nah, start a company server and tell you're doing teambuilding
         | exercise.
         | 
         | Assign leaders and have people responsible for raw resources,
         | transport, power infrastructure, advanced production and
         | fighting off biters
        
         | n65463f23_4 wrote:
         | maybe this means im not a real engineer but the game became
         | tedious for me after a while, and i was too lazy to set up the
         | really intricate contraptions
        
           | weberer wrote:
           | Were you aware that you can just copy/paste parts of your
           | factory and have robots automatically build where you pasted?
           | The blueprint system takes all the tedium out of the game.
        
             | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
             | By the time you get to the point where you can build robots
             | you're already like 90% of the way through the game from
             | what I recall.
        
           | __turbobrew__ wrote:
           | Once I have to "refactor" my base the fun was gone for me. I
           | like building stuff, but going back and doing janitor work is
           | not fun for me.
           | 
           | Currently, you build a base from the very lowest tech all the
           | way up to the highest tech in a single go. What would
           | possibly make the game less tedious for me is if a single
           | play through was split up into different levels with mini
           | objectives. Once you complete the level mini objective you
           | move on to a different map and start a new base at a higher
           | tech level. That way you can just throw away all of the "tech
           | debt" of the old base while starting at a higher tech level.
           | 
           | I imagine this would be a different game mode, but it would
           | make the game more attractive to a wider audience in my
           | opinion.
        
             | ilyt wrote:
             | > Once I have to "refactor" my base the fun was gone for
             | me. I like building stuff, but going back and doing janitor
             | work is not fun for me.
             | 
             | That's entirely a chore you have decided to do.
             | 
             | It is entirely fine to just leave your spaghetti base
             | producing stuff in its little corner while you go build the
             | next step somewhere else.
             | 
             | I've did that few times, basically leave the old base to
             | act as "mall" (just produce building to furnish the new
             | base) while I build bigger and better, once I hit
             | construction robots and can freely blueprint everything.
             | 
             | Hell, once you get to robots you can "just" erase it
             | entirely easily if it displeases you, blueprints make it
             | easy to change your mind.
             | 
             | > What would possibly make the game less tedious for me is
             | if a single play through was split up into different levels
             | with mini objectives. Once you complete the level mini
             | objective you move on to a different map and start a new
             | base at a higher tech level. That way you can just throw
             | away all of the "tech debt" of the old base while starting
             | at a higher tech level.
             | 
             | Not exactly that but look up at Warptorio 2 mod. You
             | basically have limited sized base that teleports every XX
             | minutes to a new planet, so you carry a small base with you
             | but have to rebuild every warp. It is pretty hectic on
             | default settings tho
        
             | PebblesRox wrote:
             | Mindustry works like this, in case you're not familiar with
             | it.
             | 
             | https://mindustrygame.github.io/
        
               | ekidd wrote:
               | For experienced players of factory or strategy games,
               | Mindustry starts out really easy. You can just build a
               | wall at a choke point near the enemy spawn, stack up
               | turrets, and go about your business.
               | 
               | At higher levels, it gets more challenging and
               | complicated. You need to produce power and coolant, and
               | you need to use a mix of defenses. And you also need to
               | defend vulnerable sectors against counter-attacks, and
               | build offensive units to attack enemy sectors. And it has
               | a cute little system for programming units in "assembly",
               | although the documentation is almost non-existent.
               | 
               | So even if it seems weirdly easy at first, it might be
               | worth playing at least the first few campaign levels.
               | Overall, I'd say it's my favorite mobile factory game,
               | just edging out Refactory.
        
             | ekidd wrote:
             | > That way you can just throw away all of the "tech debt"
             | of the old base while starting at a higher tech level.
             | 
             | The classic way to do this is to load up a train full of
             | supplies and drive somewhere further from the start, with
             | more enemies and better ore patches. Or if you don't have
             | trains yet, take the car.
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | It's hard to start over once you get to logistics and
           | construction robots. IMO, these should be available earlier
           | in the vanilla game.
        
             | AnotherGoodName wrote:
             | That's the point where it gets tedious for me. At some
             | point it's just painting with MS paint. I have drones that
             | can build anything i draw, i have supply lines for the
             | resources to build those things, I've launched the rocket
             | already, even the turrets and walls are auto
             | repaired/replaced and the bugs are irrelevant.
             | 
             | It was fun to get there and i always had some goals to
             | acheive. But at some point it's done and dusted with 0
             | replay-ability.
             | 
             | I will never understand the mindset of those that build
             | Megabases.
        
             | pmoriarty wrote:
             | _" logistics and construction robots. ... should be
             | available earlier in the vanilla game"_
             | 
             | Fortunately there are mods to fix that.
             | 
             | I had a whole slew of complaints about the vanilla game,
             | but found that mods already existed to fix virtually all of
             | them.
        
           | therealdrag0 wrote:
           | Ya same. Though it's not that I was lazy but it felt like
           | work where I'm like "wait I have a side project in the real
           | world that's just as much work and just as much fun" then I
           | never got back to the game.
        
             | jhatemyjob wrote:
             | i felt the exact same way. why work on a fake factory in a
             | video game that no one will care about, when i can work on
             | an actual thing in the real world?
             | 
             | it was fun for like 4-5 hours (I think I got to solar
             | panels? or nuclear power plants? i forgot) but once that
             | simple fact began to sink in, i was never able to pick it
             | up again.
             | 
             | maybe its different if you're playing with other people
        
           | pmoriarty wrote:
           | _" the game became tedious for me after a while"_
           | 
           | You can add a lot of variety and interest through Factorio's
           | mods (there are hundreds of them).... however, eventually
           | even that may not enough to stave off boredom because
           | ultimately Factorio is just one game.
           | 
           | Still, I encourage everyone to try some of the mods. I'd
           | personally never play unmodded Factorio after my first
           | playthrough. They make this great game so much better.
        
             | hackcasual wrote:
             | Sadly no mods on the Switch.
        
           | wongarsu wrote:
           | You really don't need too many intricate contraptions. Your
           | groundwork needs to be reasonably solid (mining, smelting,
           | green electrical), but the later stuff can be done more
           | quickly with botches and tech-debt instead of intricate
           | setups. Insisting on a beautifully laid-out factory that
           | looks good is a surefire way to make your playthrough take
           | ten times as long.
           | 
           | Figuring out which parts are worth refactoring into better
           | solutions as demand increases is also quite fun imho.
        
           | mankyd wrote:
           | Nah, you simply must have missed one of its addictive hooks
           | at some point. Maybe it was a bad map, or some other
           | lucky/unlucky coincidence.
           | 
           | I have friends who are engineers who tired of it quickly, and
           | friends who aren't who quickly got drawn in.
        
             | dmitriid wrote:
             | No, it just feels like a job. And I already have enough of
             | that.
             | 
             | I feel that with every single of these factory games from
             | Factorio to Satisfactory, from Dyson Sphere to Shapez.
        
               | boredtofears wrote:
               | Me too, and yet I feel immense satisfaction from building
               | out terraform deployments. I think that might be part of
               | it -- a TF deployment is actually _doing something_ so
               | the payoff feels huge. Making a counter go up in a video
               | game just doesn 't compare...
               | 
               | Interestingly enough I did sink a ton of hours into
               | Rimworld, though, which has some factory like parts but
               | more of a human simulation element to it.
        
               | dmitriid wrote:
               | Haha. Once a year I fire up Rimworld and sink half a year
               | into it. The human part is probably what does it for me,
               | too.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | that's just imposter syndrome talking. different people find
           | different things fun, and as long as you're capable of
           | planning and building an efficient factory, the fact that you
           | don't find this fun means it's just not your thing. doesn't
           | make you any less of a real engineer. I'm sure there's some
           | nerdy thing that you like that I don't care for.
        
           | AnotherGoodName wrote:
           | It does get tedious!
           | 
           | An endless megafactory is just placing blueprints someone
           | already created for 'optimal X' from online. I could come up
           | with my own but it's not motivating when there's already
           | better out there and it's not motivating to play 'MS paint
           | bucket fill' endlessly.
           | 
           | I launched the rocket. Went "that was fun" and now cannot be
           | bothered to go back.
        
           | sibit wrote:
           | I'm also too lazy to set up really intricate contraptions so
           | I just grab other people's blueprints and I glue everything
           | together. That's basically what I do at my day job and my
           | title has "engineer" in it so I'm just going to keep on
           | pretending.
        
             | craftkiller wrote:
             | I think the thing that really made factorio fun for me was
             | deciding early on to NOT look at anyone else's designs
             | online. Having the "correct" or "most efficient" answers
             | handed to you removes the design part of the game and turns
             | your base into a carbon copy of everyone else's base. I
             | spent days figuring out how to make loops with train
             | signals that would allow a train to spin endlessly in a
             | circle at full-speed waiting for the path to become clear.
             | I could have just looked up how to do that, but then I'd
             | get no sense of accomplishment.
        
               | parineum wrote:
               | Very few designs are actually that difficult to
               | reproduce. The important thing is knowing the ratios of
               | resources/buildings that need to be made to stay
               | efficient. You can pretty easily calculate that by hand
               | (but why would you) but there are tools online where you
               | can do that.
        
               | remarkEon wrote:
               | There's also the "aesthetics" of what you end up
               | building. I like my factory to look a certain way.
               | There's sort of three phases of playing Factorio.
               | 
               | 1) learning the game, making spaghetti
               | 
               | 2) pulling in other blueprints, reaching the end game
               | 
               | 3) creating your own blueprints, reaching the mountains
               | of madness
        
               | Baeocystin wrote:
               | Logistics Bots = Eventual Consistency, and that was good
               | enough for me!
        
               | belkinpower wrote:
               | Exactly this. I use other people's blueprints for
               | balancers because I find those complicated and not
               | particularly interesting, but for everything else I've
               | deliberately avoided looking at other designs. Creating
               | something mediocre and inefficient and then inventing
               | better ways to do it is half the fun.
               | 
               | I also highly recommend playing with a non-engineer
               | friend. It's an interesting way to watch someone
               | gradually develop an intuition for abstractions and
               | service-oriented design.
        
             | lfkdev wrote:
             | Nah, you tool the actual fun out of it with looking at
             | blueprints online
        
       | dom96 wrote:
       | I got a Steam Deck with the intention of playing Factorio on it.
       | The controls unfortunately are very frustrating, I'm guessing
       | they made them much better for Switch, I hope they bring the same
       | for Steam Deck.
        
         | cableshaft wrote:
         | You're in luck, they've already announced it in one of their
         | blog posts:
         | 
         | "Even after the [Nintendo Switch] launch, there is much to do.
         | Next to my screen there's a stack of post-it notes with future
         | improvements, possible features and technical debt I need to
         | solve. As mentioned in the announcement last week, after the
         | launch I will also work on controller support for PC and Steam
         | Deck."[1]
         | 
         | https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-370
        
         | ollien wrote:
         | Really? I found the trackpads great for it. The default
         | mappings are honestly quite good; I made some minor
         | adjustments, and in general it works. The only thing I didn't
         | like was that the in-game tooltips didn't tell me what the
         | steam deck controls were.
         | 
         | That said, they said in their original Switch blog post[1] that
         | they intend to bring these control mappings to PC/Steam Deck
         | 
         | [1] https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-370
        
           | baby wrote:
           | > I made some minor adjustments
           | 
           | Personally I don't want to make any adjustments. All the
           | steam deck games I've installed so far have worked flawlessly
           | without me doing anything. Inscryption is the only one where
           | I had, at some point in the game, had to pull up the
           | keyboard, but the launcher warned me that I would have to do
           | that (and even told me about the shortcut).
        
             | five82 wrote:
             | Use your Steam Deck how you want of course but the ability
             | to customize controls through Steam Input is one of its
             | best features.
        
         | everdrive wrote:
         | How are the controls terrible? Have you looked into modifying
         | them at all?
        
           | baby wrote:
           | > Have you looked into modifying them at all?
           | 
           | This is where you're losing
        
           | dom96 wrote:
           | Nope, I've been meaning to do that. But honestly I'd expect
           | the best controls to be picked by default, why am I expected
           | to go hunting for community controls?
        
             | everdrive wrote:
             | Frankly because the developer is not incentivized to
             | provide a useful controls specifically for the Steam Deck.
             | Some go the extra mile, but from what I've seen a lot of
             | them just hurl the default game pad mapping. Try checking
             | out the community mappings!
        
             | opan wrote:
             | Everyone has different preferences, it would be silly to
             | not customize things to fit your wants and needs better.
             | Good defaults are important, but when they're tailored to a
             | large group they can only be so good.
        
         | krolden wrote:
         | Try this new switch version on yuzu.
        
       | ketralnis wrote:
       | I've played so much factorio that I think I'm done with the game
       | but I'm buying it just to get a few more bucks to them
        
       | genmud wrote:
       | Factorio devs are what I want to be when I grow up. So much
       | attention to detail and such an incredible game.
        
       | lloydatkinson wrote:
       | When will it come to Xbox?
        
         | FearlessNebula wrote:
         | Probably pretty soon. The controller work is done and Xbox
         | won't need the amount of optimization that Switch does. That
         | being said, Wube doesn't do something unless they do it right
         | and right now their main focus is probably the DLC
        
       | baby wrote:
       | I'd like to know if this means that Factorio on the steam deck is
       | now as playable as on the switch. Does someone know? I've
       | refrained myself from buying it on the deck so far because it
       | seems like it's not made for the platform.
        
         | GaryNumanVevo wrote:
         | Yep! They're planning to implement the UI/UX changes they made
         | for Switch available on PC / Steamdeck.
         | https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-370
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _Factorio is coming to Nintendo Switch_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32825543 - Sept 2022 (359
       | comments)
        
       | yazzku wrote:
       | Recent accounts on GOG report the game now ships with DRM. Can
       | someone confirm?
        
         | weberer wrote:
         | There's no copy-protection or anything, but you do have to
         | authenticate your account if you want to fetch mods from the
         | built-in mod manager.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | The pinned review which you're looking at is from 2016, and is
         | mostly nonsense. Factorio requires an account for some online
         | features, including automatic updates and access to the mod
         | portal. However, the game itself does not use any form of DRM.
         | You do not need an account or an Internet connection to play
         | the game.
         | 
         | Some of the other reviews look like they might be referring to
         | an old business model the game was sold under where there were
         | multiple different "packages" containing different features
         | (e.g. a couple of puzzle scenarios). This model was abandoned
         | in 2016 when the game was released on Steam; all features are
         | now included in all versions of the game.
        
       | alrlroipsp wrote:
       | Tips for Factorio creators: Instead, make a expansion pack and
       | sell it to all of us already sold on the base game!
       | 
       | I would pay another 20 dollar straight up for more to do.
        
         | ARandumGuy wrote:
         | Porting the game to another system does not prevent them from
         | also working on an expansion (which, as another comment pointed
         | out, they are working on). This port was mostly worked on by
         | one developer, and it's hard to imagine that it meaningfully
         | delayed the expansion.
        
         | shepherdjerred wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure I'd pay $100 for an expansion considering the
         | amount of enjoyment I've gotten from Factorio
        
         | abraham wrote:
         | They are. https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-367
        
       | adrianthedev wrote:
       | I love it that there are so many Factorio fans around here.
        
       | hesdeadjim wrote:
       | Anyone looking to take this game to the next level should check
       | out the Space Exploration mod. I've dumped a few hundred hours
       | into it and it's made the vanilla game feel like nothing more
       | than a tutorial. It's awesome.
        
         | tux3 wrote:
         | I've started pyanodons after finishing SE, that's easily
         | another ~400 hours if I ever want to take it to the end!
         | 
         | This $ invested per hours of good gameplay is extraordinary.
        
         | ironSkillet wrote:
         | And for those intimidated by the much higher complexity/time
         | commitment of Space Exploration, I have found the Krastorio 2
         | mod to be a great option. It adds enough new stuff to make it a
         | fresh experience, but not nearly as much new complexity to
         | grapple with.
        
           | cwkoss wrote:
           | Bobs mods are also good, not quite as complex as spaceex, but
           | adds some interesting depth to the base game.
        
         | scottmsul wrote:
         | I'm about 200 hours into a Space Exploration game with some
         | friends, and we just started building spaceships! One thing I
         | really like about this mod is that it forces you to properly
         | learn the circuit network, I never really used it in the base
         | game but it's an absolute must for interplanetary logistics.
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | I'll be sure to try that out, because I enjoy Dyson Sphere
         | Program more than Factorio and it'd be fun to see how much that
         | mod and DSP overlap
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | > ... should check out the Space Exploration mod.
         | 
         | Do note that while Factorio on the Switch is a full game, there
         | is no mod support. It does, however, have cross platform
         | multiplayer.
        
           | pmoriarty wrote:
           | _" while Factorio on the Switch is a full game, there is no
           | mod support"_
           | 
           | That's a crime.
           | 
           | As great as the vanilla game is, mods are half of what makes
           | Factorio worth playing.
        
             | lucasmullens wrote:
             | Do any switch games manage to makes mods work?
        
               | jerf wrote:
               | Mods _qua_ mods are not possible, because that term
               | generally encompasses non-blessed people providing code
               | and assets. Nintendo will not allow that.
               | 
               | You can get "DLC". Theoretically, mods could become DLC,
               | but the road is still pretty long and I'm not aware of
               | anything that has made that leap yet. (Possibly the
               | things in the store for Bedrock Minecraft? I'm not sure
               | how "blessed" the things in the Minecraft store are, nor
               | how deep they can go; do those get to run full code or
               | are they running in some sort of Minecraft-specific VM,
               | which is another layer removed from the CPU code?) Anyone
               | who can name one, I welcome the info.
               | 
               | Your best bet for "Switch + Factorio + Mods" is probably
               | Factorio backporting the controller controls on to the
               | mainline release, then taking that release and running it
               | on a Steam Deck. Which isn't a terrible idea anyhow, as
               | the Deck is substantially more powerful than a Switch
               | (the Deck can mostly emulate a Switch, and emulation
               | generally takes a substantial power delta) so rather than
               | squeezing it on, you should be looking at something that
               | is actually running fairly comfortably.
        
               | annnoo wrote:
               | There are a few (unofficial) moddable games if you look
               | into the homebrew scene. But for this you need to have a
               | Switch that is capable of running unofficial code (either
               | old Switch with a softmod or a Switch with a hardmod)
               | 
               | If you have such a Switch you can use a tool that
               | overwrites/unions the content of the game cartridge with
               | content of a folder on your SD card. That means you could
               | add some files (e.G. maps) into the game.
               | 
               | From the top of my head you can definitely mod the Skyrim
               | Switch version as well as the Star Wars Jedi Knight Games
               | (at least these were the two games which I've played
               | around it). But I am pretty sure that there are Mods for
               | the mario games.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > Do note that while Factorio on the Switch is a full game
           | 
           | Kinda, depending on how big factories you build. Right now it
           | has a limitation that makes it like a very large/long demo.
           | From the submission page:
           | 
           | > I'm getting "std::bad_alloc" when trying to load a save
           | file.
           | 
           | > You are trying to load a save file that is too big and the
           | console has run out of memory
           | 
           | Guess at one point, if you keep on expanding the factory, you
           | won't be able to load the savegame anymore. Might get fixed
           | in the future though?
        
             | lfowles wrote:
             | Probably from larger save files than you'd feasibly be
             | building on the Switch alone.
        
               | falcolas wrote:
               | Eh, get far enough into the post-launch endgame, and a
               | huge savefile is absolutely possible.
               | 
               | I imagine we'll start seeing a new breed of "UPS saver"
               | alike strategies which optimize for Switch limitations.
        
             | hesdeadjim wrote:
             | Pretty nasty failure case. My dedicated server can easily
             | hit 3GB used RAM (Switch useable RAM) with a decent sized
             | factory.
        
         | foxyv wrote:
         | I am deeply afraid of modded Factorio. Un-modded Factorio was
         | addicting enough to make me lose a year or two...
        
           | orionhasyou wrote:
           | I'm on the same map K2 since 2019/2020. I think it might be
           | time to throw it on Github and start from scratch.
           | 
           | THE FACTORY MUST GROW
        
         | yboris wrote:
         | Direct link: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/space-exploration
         | 
         |  _Space Exploration mod_
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | amusing, another comment called it spaceex
        
           | Arnavion wrote:
           | https://mods.factorio.com/mod/space-exploration-official-
           | mod... bundles it and some other recommended mods.
        
         | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
         | Don't tempt me man!
        
         | loufe wrote:
         | I've got a chunk of free time coming up, this might be what I
         | fill some of it with, thanks for the suggestion!
        
       | KyleLewis wrote:
       | If you find yourself enjoying cable management or software
       | optimization at any level you should be careful before getting
       | sucked into this. Its a great game
        
       | cumshitpiss wrote:
        
       | numlock86 wrote:
       | Ah yes, portable crack on battery. Just what we needed.
        
       | SigmundA wrote:
       | I would hope this means it soon be native Apple Silicon on Mac
       | soon since all the hard work porting to ARM is done. Runs fine
       | through rosetta on my M1 Pro but would be nice for larger maps
       | and power efficiency.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | lovich wrote:
        
         | dymk wrote:
         | Unsubstantiated, vague FUD - all you're missing is calling him
         | "problematic" (remember to not describe what exactly is
         | problematic) to really top it all off.
        
           | lovich wrote:
           | I substantiated it in another comment. He's pretty directly
           | an ass. Didn't realize I needed to have a cited dissertation
           | for every small comment.
           | 
           | I'll be charitable and assume you somehow have access to hn
           | but google is simultaneously not available to you
        
             | dymk wrote:
             | You linked to a post that actually weakens your claim. The
             | article is about how he hasn't said anything egregious, and
             | how the attempt at cancelling him backfired.
             | 
             | Can you quote what he said, and why you think that makes
             | him an, in your own words, "absolute dickbag"?
        
               | lovich wrote:
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | I'd not heard of the guy until you made some vague claim
               | about how he's a dickbag, and that got me curious _why_
               | he 's a dickbag.
               | 
               | I'm sorry you're being asked to quote what exactly he
               | said that makes you dislike about the him, to the point
               | of going on the internet, and ultimately trying to
               | dissuade people from buying his game. Trying to impact
               | somebody's livelihood does require at least a little bit
               | of proof and explanation.
               | 
               | Enjoy your day, I suppose.
        
               | lovich wrote:
        
               | dpkirchner wrote:
               | This defense of rape (couched in a faux "I'm just asking
               | a question") is pretty damning: https://web.archive.org/w
               | eb/20210618234152/https://old.reddi...
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | > Neither of that. The thing is, that sometimes teacher
               | gets romantically involved with his/her student, and it
               | might be completely fine and consensual. In some other
               | cases, it might be very wrong. The point is that making
               | one law for all cases is just too blunt.
               | 
               | Where's the defense of (statutory) rape?
        
               | dpkirchner wrote:
               | It's right there in your quoted text.
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | Then I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on how to
               | parse the meaning and intent of that quote.
        
               | lovich wrote:
               | > The thing is, that sometimes teacher gets romantically
               | involved with his/her student...
               | 
               | This half of the sentence is describing statutory rape
               | 
               | >... and it might be completely fine and consensual.
               | 
               | This half of the sentence is defending it. Do you
               | disagree with either of those parsings. If you do can you
               | please explain how you interpret each of those sections?
        
               | three_seagrass wrote:
               | I don't agree with character assassinations on HN, but
               | you can see it right there in their comment on Reddit.
               | 
               | SJW is a pejorative, and by associating statutory rape
               | with it, he is belittling and dismissing the validity of
               | the term, which is in turn defending it.
               | 
               | Words matter.
        
               | runnerup wrote:
               | Statutory rape occurs when someone who has official power
               | or authority over another has seemingly consensual sex
               | with them.
               | 
               | This is saying "well maybe the professor does hold power
               | over that students academic career via their grades and
               | other opportunities but I don't think that should really
               | be against the law".
               | 
               | So, it is defending statutory rape. But that's just not
               | universally believed to be a bad thing so having the word
               | "rape" in the term "statutory rape" feels like an
               | accurate label to people who don't believe this is wrong.
               | 
               | It's like if some people don't feel having sex with
               | siblings/cousins was wrong, and the rest of the world
               | called it "familial rape". They'd say "I'm not defending
               | familial rape, I'm just saying sometimes it's fine for an
               | older brother to have sex with a younger sister as long
               | as it's consensual".
               | 
               | The thing about "statutory rape" is that there's a
               | blanket assumption that consent can't be given properly
               | when there is a major imbalance of power, such as that
               | between boss and subordinate (which still happens all the
               | time in FAANG) or between a professor and a student
               | (which still happens all the time in academia).
               | 
               | It's still "statutory rape" by many strict definitions of
               | the term, it's just not universally believed to be wrong
               | or in need of strong enforcement.
        
         | boredtofears wrote:
         | Really? Why is he a dickbag? (I know nothing about him other
         | than he writes interesting blog posts)
        
           | runnerup wrote:
           | I just did some Google searching:
           | https://nichegamer.com/attempts-to-cancel-factorio-dev-
           | backf...
           | 
           | There appear to be some sources linked within this to
           | original material.
        
             | boredtofears wrote:
             | Huh. He definitely dug himself a hole but we'd have to
             | throw away a whole lot of technology if we were to
             | completely squelch every technologist deemed problematic.
        
               | runnerup wrote:
               | As a passive observer of the various manifestations of
               | cancel culture, it seems generally more focused on
               | throwing away art and honors rather than technology.
        
               | lovich wrote:
               | Didn't say I'd throw the game away, but I'm not too keen
               | on continuing to fund him
        
               | three_seagrass wrote:
               | The flip side of that is imagine all the technology we
               | _would_ have if we didn 't have or defend problematic
               | technologists oppressing people in the industry.
        
         | m_mueller wrote:
         | Wait why is the creator a dickbag?
        
           | lovich wrote:
           | Every now and then he comes out against female software
           | engineers. Last time was like a year or two ago. Part of his
           | post history is up but it looks like his spiciest takes have
           | been deleted and all that's left are where he's merely
           | defending those making the claim that female software
           | engineers are bad.
           | 
           | IMO he's not a good person
           | 
           | https://old.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/o2ly6f/friday_fac.
           | ..
        
             | bena wrote:
             | Even outside of whatever views he may hold on women in
             | development, just his general demeanor makes him seem like
             | a dickhole.
        
             | jimbob45 wrote:
             | _I 'm not defending that women shouldn't be senior software
             | engeneers, but if someone would defend that, it doesn't
             | make him a bigot just because he proposes that and have
             | some arguments, only if those arguments were debunked and
             | the person wouldn't be willing to change his mind, then
             | yes, it sounds like a bigot. But my feeling is, that this
             | step is completely ignored in most of the cases. People are
             | called bigots without any attempts at understanding the
             | reasoning, it is the easy way...I'm not defending that
             | women shouldn't be senior engeneers_
             | 
             | Which part are you taking issue with?
        
               | lovich wrote:
        
               | jimbob45 wrote:
               | What's the harm in relitigating issues though? Each new
               | generation needs to rediscover why things are the way
               | they are in the world. Withholding logic would disallow
               | the new generation to be able to make an informed
               | decision.
               | 
               | For example, consider Pascal. Everyone these days says,
               | "It's a dead language, don't use it - use C/++ instead.
               | Go read Brian Kernighan's 'Why Pascal is not my favorite
               | language' as to why". But then, if you have a serious
               | debate about Kernighan's issues with the language, it
               | turns out that his concerns are no longer valid in the
               | modern world. If you were as vehemently opposed to the
               | relitigation of Pascal as you seem to be with kovarex's
               | views here, then we might miss conversational progress on
               | this topic just as we did with Pascal.
        
               | lovich wrote:
               | He can relitigate it all he wants. I'm not calling for
               | cancelling him. Several people in this thread seem to
               | have taken my comment that I don't want to continue
               | giving the guy money for what a fantastic game, because I
               | find him to be such an asshole as a personal attack on
               | them and peoples ability to speak.
               | 
               | On the note of relitigating whenever he wants however, he
               | doesn't get to do it in an ahistorical vacuum. These
               | arguments have been made before and opinions have already
               | formed. If wants to try and reargue them he's starting
               | from a state where that information is already present.
               | 
               | Regardless, he's not actually relitigating. He's doing a
               | motte and Bailey type argument where he's saying a
               | relatively defensive position that someone isn't a bigot
               | automatically for an opinion until it's debunked, but
               | it's in defense of already debunked arguments. No one
               | brought an actual new argument about the ability of women
               | to do software engineering
        
       | tarentel wrote:
       | Looks like I am buying this again and losing a lot of sleep.
        
       | jypepin wrote:
       | I've just started playing the demo yesterday and I'm hooked. Will
       | definitely buy the game, but wondering on which platform. My
       | laptop screen already feels a bit small - anyone has an
       | experience playing on switch and thoughts on playing on handheld
       | mode and/or using controls compared to keyboard/mouse?
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | Laptop/desktop on Steam. For the "when the screen feels small"
         | it isn't _too_ much additional to set up a gaming space with a
         | larger monitor. It would also then easily transition to Steam
         | Link and using smart TVs or, if you get one, a Steam Deck (I
         | have a Steam Deck, but no Switch).
         | 
         | The other part there is the mod support. There are a number of
         | quality of life things that mods can do (such as
         | https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Supercheese/Squeak%20Through )
         | which become more important as the factory grows and the
         | "physical" constraints of the game make it difficult to play at
         | the extreme ends.
         | 
         | Continuing on the mod theme, there is also the "once you feel
         | that you have sufficiently beaten the vanilla game, there are a
         | number of ways to mod the game that add complexity or other
         | challenges." I am personally fond of Seablock where the game is
         | a vast ocean with a few small scattered islands. Everything is
         | then made from water. Water -> electrolysis (H and O are vented
         | initially) -> slag -> crushed stone -> (+ water) -> mineralized
         | water -> ore... and that gets you started.
        
       | bm5k wrote:
       | Has there been any word of a physical cartridge release?
        
       | heckelson wrote:
       | I hope controller support can be copied over to PC so that I'll
       | get it on the Deck
        
       | julianeon wrote:
       | Anyone here own Factorio & Shapez who could compare them?
       | 
       | Might sound silly but Factorio's tutorial/learning curve
       | complexity has intimidated me, so I started w Shapez, as easy
       | mode Factorio. Liking Shapez so far.
        
         | three_seagrass wrote:
         | _Shapez_ is much more guided, abstract, but probably still as
         | complex as factorio.
         | 
         |  _Mindustry_ is simpler in complexity but much more aimed at
         | "tower defense" style game play.
         | 
         |  _Satisfactory_ is like the child of Factorio and Subnautica,
         | with a little of both games but not as deep as either.
         | 
         |  _Dyson Sphere Program_ is probably the truest successor to
         | Factorio, but it 's still very early access and just now adding
         | combat.
        
         | 10x_contrarian wrote:
         | I've obsessively played Factorio since 2014, probably logging
         | over a thousand hours in it. I found Shapez a lot more finicky
         | and overall way less fun. The challenges and progression in
         | Shapez are mundane, the theme is abstract, and the UI and
         | performance do not compare to the brilliant work done in
         | Factorio. For what feels like a weekend project flash game,
         | Shapez is very well done. But it doesn't compare to a project
         | that's seen a decade of development from an incredibly talented
         | team.
         | 
         | Another commenter mentioned Dyson Sphere Program, which is
         | quite similar and also an impressive effort from its team. It
         | introduces some refreshing differences for a seasoned Factorio
         | player but doesn't yet have enough content/longevity.
        
         | Arnavion wrote:
         | I have both and found Shapez boring because of how
         | claustrophobic the map is and how limited the resource types
         | are. You can't build at the scale of Factorio because the game
         | starts to lag (the downside of making a game in Electron
         | perhaps). Once you've unlocked all the equipment types the rest
         | of the game is just a loop of find some place on the map that
         | has all the elements you need -> set up extractors + choppers +
         | painters + combiners + stackers -> make belts to ship the
         | product back.
         | 
         | With Factorio you have options for transport (belts, trains,
         | bots) each with their own setup and maintenance challenges, and
         | you have incentive to centralize production of an intermediate
         | and then figure out how to distribute it to many other places
         | which need it. With shapez you just set up new factories from
         | scratch every time because there's only a handful of resources
         | and they're all available everywhere in close proximity to each
         | other.
         | 
         | Also the circuit stuff in Shapez is completely unnecessary
         | unless you go for the goal of building an all-in-one (a single
         | factory setup which can rearchitect itself to build any kind of
         | shape you tell it to). In Factorio you use circuit stuff all
         | the time even for basic tasks, like balancing belts or
         | prioritizing resources to different parts of the factory or
         | turning off parts of the factory to save power or...
         | 
         | I finished Shapez and then had no reason to pick it back up
         | because there's basically only one way to finish the game. With
         | Factorio I not only had variations in the base game I could
         | explore (train bases vs bot bases vs spaghetti belt bases,
         | electric furnaces vs staying with steel furnaces forever, not
         | bothering with solar and nuclear and just staying with steam
         | power forever, etc), I also have mods. With Shapez I have... a
         | DLC that adds puzzles.
         | 
         | But yes, every pro of Factorio and con of Shapez that I listed
         | could be the opposite for someone else. So if you like the low
         | complexity of Shapez then you may not like Factorio.
        
       | ozarker wrote:
       | Any word on if controller support is coming to pc?
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | > I actually started working on the port for Nintendo Switch
         | before the Steam Deck was even announced, so first I will
         | finish what I started. Currently the controller support is
         | optimized for and built around the Nintendo Switch system, the
         | Joy-Con(tm) controllers, and their features. There's still more
         | work to be done for generic controller support, such as dealing
         | with the many controller types, handling mods, ability to
         | switch between "keyboard and mouse" and "controller" modes,
         | etc. Also I want to make it a priority to focus on the initial
         | feedback coming from Nintendo Switch players, to make sure any
         | bigger issues are ironed out quickly. So generic controller
         | support is planned, just that like most things, it will take
         | some time.
         | 
         | (from the previous blog post on the switch -
         | https://factorio.com/blog/post/factorio-on-nintendo-switch but
         | not mentioned in this one)
        
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