[HN Gopher] I use a Raspberry Pi as my daily computer
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I use a Raspberry Pi as my daily computer
        
       Author : rambambram
       Score  : 156 points
       Date   : 2022-10-28 10:24 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
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 (TXT) w3m dump (www.heyhomepage.com)
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | Steam deck is a good option as well and you have great control
       | out of the box of power draw.
        
         | brnt wrote:
         | Although Pi's aren't obtainable for $35 anymore, a Deck is in a
         | different price category. I prefer used SFF machines.
        
       | jerf wrote:
       | Running on reduced power is not even close to hard, what with the
       | powerful monstrosities our modern systems are. The only really
       | tricky bit is to not try to push too much stuff through the
       | graphics pipelines (higher res graphics is effectively O(n^2) as
       | resolution increases), or use code that gets too clever spending
       | lots of CPU for marginal stuff like pretty animations or
       | something. An RPi4 is comfortably more powerful than anything I
       | had prior to 2010, and if you've got decent solid state storage
       | on it you could argue even past that.
       | 
       | It really _ought_ to be snappy and very effective, for everything
       | except maybe the web browser, and that 's more the fault of
       | bloated web sites than the computer or the browser in my opinion.
       | This _ought_ to be nothing special, just what people expect.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | True. And that's why I realized again today why I'm so
         | positively surprised by the fact that the RPi actually _can_ do
         | all of the (basic) stuff I want from my desktop computer.
        
       | eric4smith wrote:
       | Linux is just "almost" there.
       | 
       | I could probably use it for my daily programming environment -
       | Elixir, PostgreSQL, Vim, Firefox.
       | 
       | But then my job takes a turn... creative. Document manipulation,
       | convert multiple Images into a PDF, easy screenshots and then
       | make a thumbnail with that. Sign docs with my signature. Access
       | to apps like Pixemator. Share files easily. Dropbox. It's just
       | easier and more productive.
       | 
       | It's hard to not have Mac Preview when you need it.
       | 
       | And that's why I can't finally switch over to Linux.
       | 
       | An no, Gimp is not an alternative. Dropbox alternatives are just
       | more difficult to use. Just so many little things are missing.
       | 
       | To be fair, windows does not have a tool like Preview and that's
       | why I can't use windows either.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | I don't agree on the Dropbox part (bash script with rsync does
         | the job for me) or the GIMP part (although I had some problems
         | exporting as a proper PDF for professional printing tasks), but
         | heavy creative work with audio/video would also drive me away
         | from the RPi. I've been preparing for the day I have to leave
         | my RPi because of changing work, but that day didn't come for
         | over a year now and the RPi still runs.
        
         | mazugrin2 wrote:
         | Does Dropbox no longer provide a native Linux client? When I
         | used Dropbox it worked really well.
        
         | nso wrote:
         | Check out Windows 11s new Peek feature
        
           | joshuaissac wrote:
           | Is it that different from the existing 'Preview pane' in
           | Windows Explorer?
           | 
           | https://www.windowslatest.com/2022/04/07/windows-11-is-
           | getti...
           | 
           | https://www.zubairalexander.com/blog/preview-pane-a-cool-
           | new...
        
         | BeefWellington wrote:
         | I do literally all of those things but Mac Preview.
        
         | sevenf0ur wrote:
         | Flameshot is dope for screenshots.
         | 
         | Gimp can be tough for beginners. I always fumble around before
         | watching a tutorial. Can be annoying having to watch a tutorial
         | just to change the color of a layer.
        
           | julianlam wrote:
           | I like flameshot too, but I despise having to hunt for the
           | clipboard or floppy disk icon every time I take a screenshot.
        
         | Latty wrote:
         | Dropbox has (and as far as I'm aware, always has had) full
         | Linux support?
        
       | hwc wrote:
       | If someone would build a Linux-friendly competetor to the ARM64
       | Mac Mini, I would consider that for my home computer.
       | 
       | As it is, I either have to stick with x86_64, go to Apple, or
       | have an under-powered RPi.
        
         | easygenes wrote:
         | Ironically, the Microsoft ARM Developer Kit that was just
         | released might be a good option. [1] I also personally have
         | used a Qualcomm RB5 [2][3] since last year and can say that it
         | is quite snappy, though the official image is ancient and the
         | modern Debian Linux image Linaro works on for it was still
         | rather buggy. The most robust option is likely Nvidia's AGX
         | Orin Developer Kit [4][5], which Nvidia maintains 20.04 Ubuntu
         | images for [6].                 1:
         | https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/windows-dev-
         | kit-2023/94K0P67W7581       2:
         | https://developer.qualcomm.com/qualcomm-robotics-rb5-kit
         | 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RArzm3h_0vg       4:
         | https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/autonomous-machines/embedded-
         | systems/jetson-orin/       5:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFgsOeHMAW4       6:
         | https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-linux
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | With 4 big Cortex-X1 cores and 4 medium Cortex-A78 cores, the
           | new MS Developer Kit should be much faster than the Qualcomm
           | RB5, which has 4 Cortex-A77 cores.
           | 
           | Also the price, at $600, is decent in comparison with the
           | excessive prices requested by NVIDIA for the faster of the
           | Orin variants.
           | 
           | Unfortunately, the new MS Developer Kit also includes a
           | Microsoft Pluton, and it is very likely that Pluton is
           | configured to allow only Windows to boot.
           | 
           | Otherwise, I would have also been tempted by it, because all
           | the previous ARM-based alternatives have been either very
           | slow, like Raspberry Pi, or very expensive in comparison with
           | the computers with Intel or AMD CPUs having similar
           | performance, like the Qualcomm and NVIDIA development kits.
        
             | easygenes wrote:
             | The Lenovo X13s is basically a laptop version of the new
             | dev kit, and it seems people are running Linux on it
             | successfully [1][2], so hopefully they haven't done
             | anything different with the dev kit.                 1: htt
             | ps://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/vh1xse/setup_linux_
             | on_x13s_snapdragon_thinkpad_megathread/       2:
             | https://youtu.be/YWRbNogRBTw&t=1755
        
               | StillBored wrote:
               | Linux on it is very broken in any number of situations,
               | its basically at the level of the M1, which is at the
               | moment probably a better choice if you want a 1/2 working
               | machine.
               | 
               | Things you take for granted as working, and performing
               | well, won't. Putting it another way, its at an early
               | stage of bring up, on x86 you buy a laptop it will tend
               | to mostly work in linux with a problem here/there that
               | will likely get resolved over the next year or two. This
               | is the same, only the level of busted is much worse,
               | enough you probably won't want to actually use it as a
               | daily driver.
               | 
               | It's a fine windows machine, and virtualizes linux just
               | fine, but the same can be said of the M1 as well.
        
             | philistine wrote:
             | Looking at the images, it uses a barrel-plug looking
             | connector for power. Is the power supply of this device
             | external?
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | Raspberry Pi isn't the fastest ARM SBC. If you want something
         | significantly faster, order the new ROCK5 SBC with 16GB of RAM.
         | Being new, it won't have the same level of polish and support
         | (which can be extremely important depending on your
         | application) but these are so much faster than the Pi that it
         | can be worth it depending on your use case.
         | 
         | Nothing in the SBC world is going to come close to an M1 any
         | time soon, though. The fastest ARM SoCs just don't end up in
         | SBCs.
        
           | rambambram wrote:
           | Looked into it and seems worth a try somewhere in the future.
           | The active community of Raspberry Pi users everywhere online
           | helped me tremendously while setting up and troubleshooting
           | my RPi, that was definitely a consideration to stick with
           | RPi.
        
           | nsteel wrote:
           | When is it due to actually be available? Announced 10 months
           | ago and seems only started sampling last month. Any evidence
           | they aren't also going to get shafted by the shortages?
           | 
           | And as always, this is the biggest problem with Rock stuff.
           | 
           | > ROCK5 maker Radxa says the board supports Linux kernel 5.10
           | and will be able to run operating systems including Android
           | 12 and Debian 10 Buster.
           | 
           | Sweet. Debian 10.
        
         | nextos wrote:
         | Why ARM specifically? Many Linux packages are not ported to
         | ARM. Furthermore, non-Apple ARM CPUs are much slower.
         | 
         | There are lots of fanless x86_64 options that are also energy
         | efficient if you are willing to buy from small manufacturers or
         | stick a fanless case yourself.
         | 
         | The M1 performs so well partly because it uses a very advanced
         | fabrication process.
         | 
         | A modern Ryzen is going to have comparable single-core
         | performance, better multi-core performance and slightly higher
         | energy usage.
        
           | easygenes wrote:
           | Yeah, compatibility for x86 is much better. If you want a
           | cheap fanless sbc-style setup then the best options today are
           | likely Celeron N5105 or Pentium N6005 based systems (e.g.
           | MeLE Quieter3 or Odroid-H3+). They are around $300 and far
           | more performant and much better connectivity (i.e. they have
           | 8x PCIe-3 lanes) vs similarly priced ARM systems.
           | 
           | The closest ARM systems in price and performance are the new
           | RK3588 based ones like the Khadas Edge 2 or ROCK 5B, but
           | those really are only practical if you really need the NPU
           | and MIPI camera inputs they provide. They carry only a minor
           | power efficiency edge (max draw around 12W vs maybe 18W for
           | the x86 boards), are compromised in software compatibility,
           | and are limited in IO (i.e. either PCIe-2 only or PCIe-3 but
           | with only 4 lanes).
        
             | easygenes wrote:
             | Those x86 chips are an older generation as well. I'd keep
             | an eye out for i3-1215u based boards soon if you want
             | something that can still be fanless and tiny but has more
             | oomph.
        
           | leidenfrost wrote:
           | I have never heard of fanless x86_64 boards. Can you share
           | some examples please?
        
             | nextos wrote:
             | This blog discusses tons of x86_64 fanless designs, as well
             | as other architectures: https://www.fanlesstech.com
        
             | Symbiote wrote:
             | I have an Intel NUC in a fanless case.
             | 
             | An older version of one of these: https://www.akasa.com.tw/
             | update.php?tpl=product%2Fproduct.li...
        
         | a9h74j wrote:
         | Probably underpowered for your needs, but within a year or two
         | I am expecting used Chromebooks to be up-to-date enough to
         | include the current Linux (e.g. Debian) support. So perhaps $50
         | and will include keyboard, screen, and ca 5W idle consumption.
        
       | adhoc_slime wrote:
       | you could do a lot of things to reduce fan noise in your
       | computer, but I appreciate this perspective. We constantly over-
       | estimate how powerful a machine we need (probably because of the
       | bad software we run) and underestimate how versatile and powerful
       | a small SBC can be.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | akeck wrote:
       | I use both a NUC Debian server and an 8GB Rpi. I've been
       | pleasantly surprised how much day-to-day stuff I get done on pi
       | lately.
        
       | MattDemers wrote:
       | >Why should you do this?
       | 
       | >Because I was done with the fan noise of my older and more
       | powerful computer. After a while it felt as if a fighter jet was
       | taking off next to me, constantly. I moved my old computer more
       | away from me, but that wasn't enough.
       | 
       | :thinking: Feels like this could be fixed by some new fans, or at
       | least an understanding of what GPU/CPU load is. Referencing
       | "buying a new computer" just because of this is kind of overkill.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | True, could have replaced the fans. Or better, try to replace
         | them and break something (never assembled a computer, no
         | experience here). I didn't want to spend money on new fans and
         | a technician. Another problem was, I needed something working
         | the next day. But the biggest thing was, I wanted to experience
         | fanless. RPi4 made that possible and held up pretty good, which
         | surprised me.
        
           | omni wrote:
           | There are fanless full-PC builds, though that would probably
           | require you to build your own computer. Parent's overall
           | point is definitely true though, the idea that you have to go
           | all the way down to a Pi to get a quiet computer is
           | laughable. With a few fans and a decent heatsink you can cool
           | hundreds of watts silently.
        
             | rambambram wrote:
             | It seems you miss the point of my post. I had the thing
             | lying around. And it is indeed laughable, I laugh my ass
             | off since this little silent computer is still going
             | strong, without me giving up too much of my workflow.
        
               | MattDemers wrote:
               | Hey, if it works, it works (sorry if my comment came off
               | as snarky). For reference in the future, Noctua fans are
               | typically a highly-rated cheap/quiet fan product.
        
               | rambambram wrote:
               | No prob. Thanks for pointing to Noctua fans.
        
       | nsteel wrote:
       | For anyone in the UK and desperate, there is some "refurbished"
       | Pi 4 and 3B stock at https://www.okdo.com/c/pi-shop/the-
       | raspberry-pi/ it's not RRP but there's a PSU and case included.
       | 
       | For the record, I've never seen/heard of this site before today.
       | They also sell Rock SBCs (and also in stock).
        
       | animitronix wrote:
       | Nice article, but pointless until they're cheaply and widely
       | available again.
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | I use mine as a very nice thin client:
       | https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/10/23/1700
        
       | giuliomagnifico wrote:
       | > I use a Raspberry Pi 4 (with 8GB of RAM) as my daily desktop
       | computer. I browse the internet, read and send e-mails, program
       | software, edit photos, create images, watch Youtube videos and
       | play games on it. Without any significant problems.
       | 
       | Yes for those lite tasks is fine, and you can also save some
       | watts. The things are different when you want to do
       | audio/video/photo production.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | Of course! But I still was positively surprised that GIMP,
         | Youtube and even Kdenlive worked flawlessly on the thing.
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | Yeah. "Production", implying a high standard of professional
           | quality using a base of uncompressed 4K or 8K might be a bad
           | idea, sure, or trying to run a live event with half-a-dozen
           | input streams and live streaming back out to the internet.
           | 
           | But plenty of uses of video editing would still be perfectly
           | possible on an RPi4. It might be noticeably faster on a
           | "real" desktop, but it would be perfectly doable, especially
           | if you were working in less than 1080P for some reason, like
           | a DVD source video.
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | A DVD resolution can be handled for edition even under a
             | Pentium III or a Rasbperry B+.
        
           | doubled112 wrote:
           | It has been a few years, but I used to do all of these things
           | (GIMP, YouTube, Kdenlive) on a Pentium 4 with 1GB RAM
           | 
           | Why wouldn't they work on a Pi 4 with higher specs?
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | 4k and 8k video. With 720p OFC a G4 macbook or some bumped
             | up dual Pentium III with Cinelerra/Cinepaint under Linux
             | and a Geforce 3 was more than enough.
        
             | rambambram wrote:
             | I don't know, but still, I was surprised.
             | 
             | Maybe I do know and it has to do with software bloat? I
             | don't find it hard to believe that the software you ran on
             | your Pentium was less bloated somehow.
        
         | rr888 wrote:
         | > audio/video/photo production
         | 
         | No one I know does this.
         | 
         | The biggest problem for me is to use our corporate remote
         | desktop you need spyware that only works on Windows and Mac.
        
           | jcelerier wrote:
           | This is wild, huge majority of people I know personally who
           | use computers want to do at least one of these things once in
           | a while. Or if not this, some CAD work, 3d modeling, and
           | other computationally expensive things
        
             | contracertainty wrote:
             | I'm gonna second gp, I don't know anyone who does
             | photo/video editing, cad/cam or 3D modeling.
             | 
             | In fact, I know more people with > 3 pi's than I do coders.
             | People love them and use them for all sorts. But I don't
             | know anyone who does any of those things.
        
             | adrian_b wrote:
             | I agree with you, but all those tasks alternate with many
             | hours during which a personal computer is used only for
             | reading and editing documents, or Internet browsing, or
             | audio listening or video watching.
             | 
             | For the latter activities, a computer bigger than an Intel
             | NUC or similar computers is never needed.
             | 
             | I do CAD work, compilation of large software projects and
             | other tasks that need a fast computer, but I do these on a
             | couple of big tower servers, which I wake up only when
             | necessary.
             | 
             | As a PC, I use an Intel NUC, but now there are more
             | alternatives to it than ever, e.g. there are several models
             | of small computers with AMD Rembrandt Ryzen 6000 CPUs.
             | 
             | The NUC-like computers are faster than the cheap laptops
             | having the same CPUs and they also have a much more
             | complete set of peripheral ports.
             | 
             | I frequently see comments that there are laptops which are
             | cheaper than the NUC-like computers, but those cheap
             | laptops are typically garbage that I would not use even if
             | I would receive them for free. A laptop comparable in
             | performance, versatility and reliability with a $1000 NUC-
             | like computer may cost $3000 or more.
        
         | abudabi123 wrote:
         | On the RasPi4 8GB there is this 4MB jpeg file that crashes
         | Krita but will render slowly in Falkon.
         | 
         | https://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/150000/15...
        
       | notjtrig wrote:
       | I use a KVM extender and keep my desktops in the server room.
        
       | forinti wrote:
       | I recently bought an Android TV Box (Quad-core, 4GB of RAM) just
       | to see if I could use it as a remote terminal.
       | 
       | I turns out to be quite practical and fast. The only gotcha is
       | that DNS doesn't work on the VPN and I have to log on to my
       | company computer via its IP.
       | 
       | My feeling is that any little quad-core SBC with 8GB of RAM would
       | be quite adequate for remote work and maybe most of my home
       | needs.
        
       | nudpiedo wrote:
       | I did that for a while when my previous laptop broke. It was fine
       | with a lightweight linux desktop but it was quite slow using an
       | ultrawide screen and horribly slow for some compilations, but it
       | felt like an "almost there" concept, just arrive to the office
       | and turn on the screen.
       | 
       | With a normal resolution and in a cloud IDE environment or
       | interpreted only languages like python could have perfectly
       | worked, also for everyone who doesn't need exotic binaries.
       | 
       | Some thoughts I had were also, that I could have set up a server-
       | web IDE on it and work on the way with a tablet and a keyboard
       | without rely on a third party cloud, but again, I needed to
       | compile binaries.
        
       | LordHeini wrote:
       | While a Pi can be used to browse the internet a bit and write
       | some text, i would not want to endure the low performance for
       | anything even slightly more heavy weight.
       | 
       | I absolutely hate to wait for slow compile times, long startup
       | times, slow disk writes and laggy browsers. All of which you will
       | get on a Pi.
       | 
       | The sad truth is that for no reason a lot of modern software is
       | super bloated and eats resources like crazy. And you can not
       | avoid those in work related environments.
       | 
       | Things like elastic search, a bunch of docker containers, an IDE,
       | multiple browsers, Thunderbird, Slack and so on... must run in
       | parallel without any hiccup.
       | 
       | And my case it has to drive at least 2 monitors, without any
       | complaints, all while video conferencing is running.
       | 
       | My base memory usage is around at 10-15 gb all the time (i am
       | using ubuntu with awesome wm) good luck cramming that in the 8gb
       | of the Pi and a swap on a SD card (hope you got an SSD).
       | 
       | Modern computers are super silent anyway so who cares if the Pi
       | is quieter than the AC or the cars outside the window.
       | 
       | As it stands Pi are ridiculously expensive nowadays so there is
       | really no reason to put up with a subpar solution.
       | 
       | Just get a cheap (used) workstation or mini PC which costs the
       | same and is multiple times as powerful. If it is too loud replace
       | the fans with silent ones those are cheap too...
       | 
       | My Pi3 is now driving my 3d Printer which is a more appropriate
       | use case.
       | 
       | And my Pi4 collects dust behind the TV because it is a bit too
       | slow to serve as a media computer at 4k.
       | 
       | I bought those years ago (60EUR or so) and would feel completely
       | ripped of if i had paid the current prices.
        
         | nsteel wrote:
         | > And my Pi4 collects dust behind the TV
         | 
         | Put it on ebay. Right now.
        
           | LordHeini wrote:
           | Yeah it is one of those cases of 'someday i will use it for
           | something else'.
           | 
           | Maybe a Pi-Hole and or file server.
           | 
           | Too sad that its performance is just quite not there for 4k
           | video (on the other hand it is amazing that it works at all
           | for such a small device).
        
           | pocketarc wrote:
           | Not the parent, but seeing this CTA, I might - I have one
           | that's been sitting unused for a long while, even bought the
           | nice case and all. Thought I'd use it but nah.
        
         | technofiend wrote:
         | >I absolutely hate to wait for slow compile times, long startup
         | times, slow disk writes and laggy browsers. All of which you
         | will get on a Pi.
         | 
         | Undeniably correct - but if you use your Pi or any other SBC as
         | a poor man's VDI terminal, in other words, using it to remote
         | into a better computer elsewhere, then it's kind of OK.
         | Personally I still found it too slow and laggy for my taste and
         | instead used an Intel NUC. There's probably a good meet-in-the-
         | middle device available on Aliexpress like the fanless systems
         | people use for firewalls but they too can be pricey (vs a Pi).
         | Would love to see a small ARM device powerful enough to push 4k
         | video but still otherwise fanless, preferably something that
         | could be bolted to the VESA block on a monitor or at least
         | hidden behind the monitor.
        
       | piersj225 wrote:
       | For anyone in or around London, for today and tomorrow there is a
       | popup shop on Oxford street selling raspberry pis
       | 
       | https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/the-raspberry-pi-store-pops...
        
         | Ptchd wrote:
         | They actually have some in stock?
        
           | soapdog wrote:
           | They had the 2GB and 4GB in stock when I arrived a couple
           | hours ago. They said they'll have the 8GB tomorrow.
        
           | nsteel wrote:
           | Yes. At least, they did at the other recent popups.
           | 
           | > Raspberry Pi 4 (2GB, 4GB, and 8GB) will be in stock at the
           | pop-up. Please be aware that we're limiting Raspberry Pi 4 to
           | one of these computers per person. Note that the limit is one
           | of any, not one of each, so you won't be able to purchase one
           | 2GB model and one 8GB model -- you can only buy one of any of
           | these computers. We've decided to do this to try to ensure
           | that everyone who has made the trip to Oxford Street can pick
           | up one of these harder-to-come-by boards.
           | 
           | EDIT: They are sold out of 8GB Pi4 and Pi 400.
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Raspberry_Pi/status/1585960073549217792
        
       | eliasmacpherson wrote:
       | I tried using it daily as you do, but youtube had stability
       | issues in Chromium and Firefox for ages, so now I rarely use it.
       | When it works, great, when not, I'm not spending any more time
       | trying to figure out why.
       | 
       | https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=323782
       | 
       | https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=323640&start=...
        
         | StillBored wrote:
         | Stability issues on RPI's almost always are the result of power
         | and cooling problems.
         | 
         | AKA, use one of the official power adapters, and one of the
         | large 3rd party heatsink/fan combos.
         | 
         | Web browsing on the rpi is painful at best, and when its
         | "working" will be stressing the poor thing to its max, so...
         | see above.
        
           | eliasmacpherson wrote:
           | it stands up to stress/linpack, I've the flirc case & and
           | official adapter. It may be something to do with trying to
           | accelerate video. Otherwise it has never crashed.
           | 
           | I suspect it's a compilation flag that this ubuntu distro has
           | set correctly that RpiOS has not, I also see some
           | about:config messing to try for another time.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | Ubuntu Mate 20.04 is my secret sauce, I guess. I also found
         | Raspbian (or RPi OS as it is now called) to not always perform
         | properly with Youtube.
        
         | satysin wrote:
         | I've had much better luck and performance using yt-dlp and mpv
         | to watch YouTube videos on a Pi. It isn't an amazing experience
         | as you would imagine but it is much better than trying to do it
         | in the browser.
        
       | password4321 wrote:
       | Apparently the two motivators here were noise and price (pre-
       | owned hardware).
       | 
       | What would be best if the primary motivator was reducing
       | electricity for a solar-powered setup? I assume e-ink would be
       | the best screen, though it costs a pretty penny for a respectable
       | screen size. It might be worth using a laptop to have the battery
       | taken care of.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | Good question. If having a daily desktop environment is still
         | your use case, than maybe a 7 inch (touch) screen from
         | Waveshare is an option? I have one that has a good color screen
         | and says it's also low power consumption, but I never compared
         | to low power alternatives like an e-ink screen.
        
         | doublepg23 wrote:
         | I would definitely try an e-ink in person if you haven't yet.
         | They have gotten much better but even the top of the line
         | models have woeful refresh rates.
        
       | naikrovek wrote:
       | about their previous computers:
       | 
       | > After a while it felt as if a fighter jet was taking off next
       | to me, constantly.
       | 
       | as someone who spent time around jets in the US Air Force, I
       | absolutely loathe this analogy.
       | 
       | The difference between a few computer fans and a jet taking off
       | is like the difference in force between a dead leaf falling on
       | you from 10m above you versus a 25kg anvil falling on you from
       | 10m above you.
       | 
       | computer fans are annoying, sure. being 6ft away from a jet
       | engine during takeoff will result in permanent and severe damage
       | to your hearing, if not complete loss of hearing.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | It was only about my own computer, no other people in this
         | story. ;)
         | 
         | Since we are still talking about fighter jets, they should make
         | the F-35 less noisy. The Netherlands have a bunch of them and
         | the F-16 is as quiet as my RPi compared to them. Or does this
         | analogy also rub you the wrong way?
        
         | jenscow wrote:
         | I'm sure they've been told a million times not to exaggerate.
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | Figures of speech are forbidden now?
        
           | naikrovek wrote:
           | yes that's exactly what I said. I said, _exactly_ , "figures
           | of speech are forbidden, now."
           | 
           | and you definitely haven't made a crazy leap at all.
        
             | iLoveOncall wrote:
             | That was a figure of speech.
        
               | naikrovek wrote:
               | you can't just call everything a figure of speech and use
               | that as license to say what you want. words have meaning.
        
               | iLoveOncall wrote:
               | > you can't just call everything a figure of speech
               | 
               | When you say "everything", do you mean literally
               | everything, or was that a figure of speech?
        
         | denysvitali wrote:
         | The Macbook Pro 2019 gets close to that though :D
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | The world is inundated with these over-the-top analogies now.
         | People can't exaggerate just a little, they have to go full
         | nuclear. And when dealing with a lot of sensitive subjects, it
         | negatively affects a lot of people. I'm looking forward to a
         | generation that swings the other way and goes super-literal on
         | everything.
        
           | ejb999 wrote:
           | ..that and 'it looks like a war zone' analogy after every
           | storm.
           | 
           | Unless you have actually been in an active war zone, you
           | probably shouldn't use that particular analogy either.
        
           | drivers99 wrote:
           | Aren't "inundated" and "full nuclear" exaggerations too?
        
             | lelanthran wrote:
             | Maybe it was an attempt at humour?
             | 
             | Like, "If I've told you once, I've told you a million times
             | - _don 't exaggerate!_"
        
         | sidewndr46 wrote:
         | I worked with a guy who was an F-4 technician and can
         | appreciate that perspective.
         | 
         | But from the perspective of a civilian, we only hear fighter
         | jets when indoors or on the ground. The noise a fighter jet
         | makes is nothing like a commercial airliner. But it is on par
         | in terms of annoyances with the sound a laptop makes when it is
         | maxed out thermally, if you're sitting in your house.
         | 
         | I know it isn't a "fighter jet" but recently the USAF passed a
         | U2 basically right over my house. I was shocked to realize just
         | how loud that plane is for example.
         | 
         | So the analogy makes sense. About the only other thing that is
         | similar in annoyance is wood chippers.
        
       | checkyoursudo wrote:
       | I cannot buy a Pi 4 (8GB) locally at all. Amazon appears to offer
       | one for 200-250 euros. For 200 euros or less, I can get a NUC-
       | style mini PC at my local electronics store that is more
       | powerful. I wouldn't mind trying out a Pi-as-a-PC, but new models
       | either just aren't available or aren't reasonably priced.
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | I bought a couple of Odroid HC4. I boot from a microSD. I can
         | plug my old SATA disks in there. The board with an old 750 HDD
         | consumes 12 to 15 W. If I unmount the HDD file system and
         | switch off the disk with udisksctl power-off it's only 4 W. Any
         | operation on the device turns the disk on again. I'll check
         | with a spare SSD.
         | 
         | Even if I had a different use case Pis are impossible to find
         | at a price worth paying for. I'm starting to forget about them.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rwaksmunski wrote:
         | Yeah I bought a used Lenovo M720q NUC style 6 core i5-8400T
         | 16Gb Ram 512Gb NVMe machine for less than a new Pi 4 8Gb. With
         | a windows 10 pro license. Makes one hell of a home server.
        
         | mro_name wrote:
         | at de.farnell.com it costs EUR 85 - but has over 1 year
         | delivery time :-(
        
         | nextos wrote:
         | I use an old NUC with a i5-4250U CPU on an Akasa fanless case
         | and it's pretty great.
         | 
         | One of the tricks is to run a very thin and simple stack to get
         | really low latency. No compositor, no DE, just a WM and X. And
         | Ethernet.
         | 
         | It copes with Google Meet or MS Teams just fine, as well as any
         | light development. I do all heavy lifting by SSHing to a huge
         | workstation.
         | 
         | There are lots of nice options if one wants to purchase a brand
         | new fanless desktop: Cirrus7, Tranquil, CompuLab, etc. And of
         | course, fancy DIY with e.g. a Streacom case.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | In my case I use a NUC but with Gnome with Wayland , NixOS
           | and a Xanmod kernel (multimedia/rt/input optimized
           | throughput) with some blobs purged. No desktop effects.
           | 
           | On the netbook, OpenBSD with cwm+xterm+gnufont+tmux plus
           | mpv,gv,mupdf,nsxiv and sometimes links -g and a forked dillo.
           | On SSH, I don't care even if I use wireless: I use Mosh and
           | the remote server it's handled either by Tmux or Screen.
           | 
           | The latency on both are comparable.
        
         | mpalczewski wrote:
         | I bought a used nuc computer on eBay for less than $100
         | recently. It's much more powerful than a pi. Used computers are
         | some of the best bargains now.
        
         | yrgulation wrote:
         | A quick google search shows raspberry pi 4 8gb ram selling at
         | 140 eur in italy, 100 eur in hungary. If you live in the eu why
         | do you limit your searches to one country? It feels like those
         | people complaining they cant find ps5s or gpus yet i
         | comfortably sourced mine from various countries, new, at a
         | decent price, even during the pandemic. If you own a small ltd
         | you can even buy them vat free.
        
           | awiesenhofer wrote:
           | This! Its why I love using geizhals, you can select to show
           | all sellers from not just your own country but all of EU,UK
           | as well. And immediately filter for availability and
           | shipping.
        
           | tpxl wrote:
           | Galagomarket seems to have the RPi 4B 8GB in stock for 99EUR.
           | Don't know where they ship, but the website is translated
           | into Croation, English, German, Italian, Serbian, Hungarian,
           | Slovenian and Slovakian. I bought from them in Feb 2021 and
           | got mine delivered quickly.
           | 
           | https://www.galagomarket.com//item/display/1953
        
             | yrgulation wrote:
             | Thanks for the link - i love this kind of small shops
             | selling hobby electronics. I dont see an indication that
             | they dont ship in all of the eu, at least according to
             | their tocs. Seems like sending to outside slovenia costs 5
             | eur, peanuts. What i do usually is i just email them
             | beforehand to be sure - a good test of their responsiveness
             | as well.
        
           | nousermane wrote:
           | Is it actually in stock at this price? Where I am, local
           | price tracker, tweakers.net, also shows some listings for
           | ~100 euro, but if you click through to the seller's website,
           | it says there "not in stock, delivery date unknown". If you
           | limit to what you can actually buy, it's ~200 euros, and even
           | that - often with a week or two of lead-time.
        
             | doublepg23 wrote:
             | I've noticed listings like that more and more lately. A
             | dark pattern where you initially think something is in
             | stock but is actually sold by a third party of a third
             | party.
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | 12tvende wrote:
       | Damn what IDE do you use? What games do you play?
        
         | eddieroger wrote:
         | Both of those are specialized use cases by most people's
         | definitions. For most of the uses of normal people, "daily use"
         | is a good web browser and maybe a mail client, and the Pi
         | should be more than capable of running those. A Pi is hardly a
         | gaming rig or a dev box, and I don't think anyone would claim
         | it is.
        
           | ryukafalz wrote:
           | That said, Emacs and Vim run fine on a Pi. :)
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | I run nvi+tmux under an OpenBSD netbook for C/AWK and Perl
             | (sometimes TCL). If flies. No SSD. On gaming, I prefer
             | Nethack/Slashem, IF and retroemulation. Or not, with
             | Scummmvm.
             | 
             | I can always use the NUC at the living for games such as
             | Jedi Academy or Jedi Outcast.
        
         | akho wrote:
         | Why not read the article before you get snarky?
         | 
         | > programming (Pluma as my text editor and LAMP stack for
         | running a localhost), and some simple games like Mahjong and
         | Solitaire
         | 
         | Tools from an era that matches the computer's capabilities.
        
         | mmcallister wrote:
         | (n)vim would work a real treat on a pi. Building locally might
         | be tricky depending on the codebase, but it's not entirely
         | unreasonable to expect to have a full fledged IDE on a pi
         | (except Android development, lol)
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | I just use the text editor that comes with Ubuntu Mate, it's
         | called Pluma. I only play Mahjong and Solitaire on the thing.
         | So nothing advanced compared to modern day capabilities. I only
         | ask things from my RPi that I know it can perform, so with my
         | software needs I had to adapt to this piece of hardware as
         | well. I'm just surprised it held so well for over a year now.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | hey HNers, this is sorta related to an idea I have, using a Pi
       | plus an RF transceiver for reading RFID tags. Commercial ones
       | with Bluetooth seem to run $1,000 or more.
       | 
       | I'm helping out with a food distribution org (lfrad.org). One of
       | their gleaners, Steve, would like an easy way to estimate the
       | weight of the food they've collected from a supermarket. The idea
       | we like is to attach an RFID tag to each _box_ of food (not each
       | item), and segregate the types of food, e.g. a bread box, a
       | produce box, a milk box. Steve already does the repacking, in
       | boxes in his SUV. He knows the average weight of a box of each
       | type of food.
       | 
       | The tags will just say what kind of food it is. They can be
       | reused once they're counted.
       | 
       | Note that the boxes don't come pre-packed from the store, and he
       | doesn't lay them all out on the ground before putting them in his
       | car.
       | 
       | SO: the goal is, he just points his homebrew RFID reader at the
       | car full of boxes, and it counts the boxes of each type of food.
       | 
       | Has anyone ever done anything like this?
       | 
       | He's a former circuit designer, so hardware hacking is not beyond
       | him. I also have other friends who could help. I think a funky-
       | looking homebrew product is actually _preferable_ to a commercial
       | one, since who 's going to steal it?
       | 
       | EDIT: thanks for the answers so far. I _think_ some commercial
       | units do work with passive tags at that distance (say, 5 meters),
       | but I 'll have to recheck.
       | 
       | The trunk can be open; that's not a problem.
        
         | isoprophlex wrote:
         | Your current design employs passive tags. Those rfid tags are
         | lit up by the scanner, and thus must be in very close
         | proximity. There's nothing (that i know of) that will report
         | its data passively over that distance.
         | 
         | Alternatives could be Bluetooth beacons or something bespoke,
         | but that will require powering the tags... increasing cost and
         | complexity of operation.
         | 
         | Edit: you can use computer vision approaches (like qr codes) if
         | you have line of sight to each box. But that's not guaranteed
         | if I interpret your problem correctly)
         | 
         | Edit 2: if you do use RFID but position the reader near the
         | trunk opening and scan each box as it enters the trunk, you can
         | keep a running total of the weight added to the car. That might
         | strike the best cost/effort/result balance given these
         | constraints...
        
         | qbasic_forever wrote:
         | NFC and RFID doesn't work at that kind of range, i.e. standing
         | multiple feet away. It definitely won't work through a metal
         | car trunk too.
        
       | ch_123 wrote:
       | That NextCube-esque case is nice, might get one for myself :)
        
       | PaulWaldman wrote:
       | What is the point for a consumer to use a Raspberry PI 4 today?
       | 
       | I recently purchased a mini PC with an Intel N5105, 16GB of Ram,
       | 512GB NVME SSD, two gigabit ethernet ports, two HDMI ports, many
       | USB ports, and Wifi 6. This system was $180, all in. You can't
       | find a Pi 4, much less one with equivalent specs for anywhere
       | near this price. If you can find it, an 8GB PI4 is $75 and then
       | you need to buy the case, power supply, sometimes storage, etc.
       | 
       | The N5105 system when under full load is only drawing 7 watts,
       | I've seen it as low as 4 watts when idle. The Pi 4 uses a
       | BCM2711, which according to Passmark, is about 4X slower than an
       | Intel N5105.
       | 
       | I do think the PI is great from the hobbyist and industrial
       | perspective, but to just use it as an inexpensive PC seems like a
       | waste.
        
         | ransom1538 wrote:
         | The Pi4 should cost $30. The entire point is it is cheap. But
         | now with product scalpers jacking up prices, its just an bad
         | purchase.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | I used it because I already had one.
         | 
         | What brand is your system from? Or isn't it pre-assembled? The
         | price of $180 sounds perfect for an increase in performance and
         | still low power requirements.
        
           | PaulWaldman wrote:
           | That's a good reason, it's always great when you can
           | repurpose hardware.
           | 
           | It is a Beelink model from Amazon a couple of weeks ago. It
           | came pre-assembled with Windows 11 pre-installed. I wiped it
           | and installed Proxmox.
        
             | rambambram wrote:
             | I just saw their website. Definitely an option for when my
             | RPi lets me down, or - more likely - when I need to do
             | heavier stuff. But these Beelink things come with fans...
             | how's the noise?
        
               | PaulWaldman wrote:
               | It's essentially silent, I've only ever heard the fan
               | when I'm within a foot of the unit. I pulled the unit
               | apart and the fan looked pretty standard.
               | 
               | There are also models on Amazon that use the N5105 that
               | are passively cooled. I havn't used one, so I'm not sure
               | if there is any throttling going on with those models.
        
               | rambambram wrote:
               | Good to know, thanks!
        
         | focusedone wrote:
         | Yep, tried for months to find a Pi4 to replace an old Pi2 for
         | home experimentation. I've only tried a few things needing the
         | GPIO pins, mostly it's just an always-on computer I can proxy
         | through and self host on. But the Pi2 was getting into swap all
         | the time and needed an upgrade.
         | 
         | Found a Thinkcentre M600 on ShopGoodwill for $40 with an SSD.
         | Added $10 of RAM and it's honestly a better fit for what I do
         | with it. Crazy slow for a windows desktop but perfectly snappy
         | running debian.
         | 
         | For someone just looking for an inexpensive PC, and with the
         | way availability and markup are right now, the Pi just doesn't
         | make sense. Used / cheap SFFs are a good way to go.
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | > Thinkcentre M600 on ShopGoodwill for $40
           | 
           | These are, indeed, RPi killers if you don't mind the power
           | consumption and the lack of built-in GPIO.
           | 
           | I have a cluster of HP thin clients running... clustery
           | things.
        
         | nmz wrote:
         | You don't need to buy a case.
         | 
         | Also, the plan was $100 for the pi4+keyboard+everything combo
         | before all this (lets just call it the 2020 era) happened. But
         | $100 is still a much better deal than $180.
        
           | jstarfish wrote:
           | Tangential, but I learned the other day that if you have
           | access to a 3D printer, there are a lot of free designs for
           | RPi cases on the STL-sharing sites.
           | 
           | Some of them add extra value by doubling as other desktop
           | furniture (phone stands, pen holders, etc.).
        
           | rambambram wrote:
           | This was exactly my case. I spent around that price point,
           | before 'the 2020 era'. The RPi4 definitely needs cooling.
           | Luckily for me the passive cooling case/ribs works, so I
           | don't need fans.
        
           | easygenes wrote:
           | For something you use as a main computer, it's hard to see
           | how the time lost on something 3X slower can ever justify the
           | ~$100 saved. At least for anyone who spends a decent amount
           | of time on a computer and is in the developed world with a
           | job.
        
             | turtlebits wrote:
             | Productivity doesn't scale with speed, or else everyone
             | would be using Threadrippers. OP might be perfectly fine
             | with a pi.
        
               | StillBored wrote:
               | There is a floor where browsing the web is _painful_, and
               | the pi is definitely in that category on any site that
               | isn't hackernews levels of javascript. I challenge you to
               | give amazon or ebay a try on it, or just spend a bit of
               | time on youtube. Things you take for granted, like being
               | able to run videos full screen won't happen on the pi if
               | your monitor is HD or better.
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | The first machine I browsed the web on was running at a
               | wopping 40MHz. We have a bloat problem not a spec problem
               | even on cheap machines.
               | 
               | Now get off my lawn you kids.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | We have an absolutely terrible bloat problem on the web.
               | Unfortunately, using a slow PC on our end won't solve it.
               | If we could force web devs to work on raspberry pis or
               | old atom netbooks, the world would be a better place.
        
               | rambambram wrote:
               | That's what I did, basically. I forced myself to work on
               | low end machines because there might be a chance my
               | website system also runs in a browser on a low end
               | machine. My website with this blogpost is holding up
               | perfectly fine by the way, even with all HN visitors,
               | peaking at almost 2 visits each second for some hours.
               | Also credits to my webhost!
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | It is funny to think of the hoops I jumped through to get
               | things working nicely on an old Atom processor. My
               | Makefiles were so good, everything was tracked
               | compilation only happened when necessary...
        
               | easygenes wrote:
               | Yeah, this is basically what I mean. Personally, I think
               | the performance of SBC boards with Celeron N5105 is my
               | baseline for "acceptable" performance for a desktop.
               | Anything slower I will deliberately avoid due to the jank
               | and inconvenience factor.
        
           | eliasmacpherson wrote:
           | it will throttle under load if you don't buy a case
           | 
           | https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2019/best-way-keep-your-
           | co...
        
           | StillBored wrote:
           | Not if its 1/4th the machine.
           | 
           | These jasper lake/etc machines are usually between $100 and
           | $200 new and are a much better deal than an 8G rpi, even at
           | MSRP for a laundry list of reasons starting with they are
           | much more capable machines.
           | 
           | Look for chuwi herobox, beelink, etc
           | 
           | The pi's were priced right when they were $35, because adding
           | storage, case, RTC hat, powersupply, etc would double or
           | triple the machine build cost but still land <$100 when the
           | floor on cheap PC's (usually Via) were in the $300 range. But
           | driving the price up for just a tiny amount of ram...?
           | 
           | These days you can buy new windows tablets for $200 (from big
           | companies like HP for example), and these low end NUC style
           | boxes frequently for less than $100. Sure the perf isn't
           | great, but even the worst are equal or better than the very
           | aged A72, low clocked designs lacking even crypto
           | acceleration you find in the rpi4.
           | 
           | Never mind if your actually trying to just save money,
           | midrange refurb and used machines from a couple years back
           | will give you perf within a few percent of the current
           | hardware in the same price range, and its going to be far
           | more capable.
           | 
           | (I just stumbled on a very capable i5 based HP slim fanless
           | desktop, refurb for $109 on amazon while checking the prices
           | of that chuwi. There are a bunch of these "laptop in a slim
           | desktop" case systems frequently for very reasonable prices.)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | blueflow wrote:
         | I used a RPi in the past as main desktop, why i went for this:
         | 
         | - Its not a Intel platform (trust issues due to IME)
         | 
         | - Power consumption low enough for running 24/7
         | 
         | - Noise - its quiet enough so it does not disturb me while
         | sleeping
         | 
         | - No support for weird power management, machines going dark
         | for no discernible reason has always been bugging me
         | 
         | What i really disliked was the instability of SD cards, and the
         | media playback was mediocre back then due to a lack of HW
         | accelerators.
        
           | sys_64738 wrote:
           | > Its not a Intel platform (trust issues due to IME)
           | 
           | You're right to be paranoid. If only people fully grasped
           | what the IME actually was.
        
           | StillBored wrote:
           | Its not a Intel platform (trust issues due to IME)
           | 
           | See, this is what I don't understand, the pi's GPU is running
           | a huge pile of closed source proprietary code as well, and at
           | a first approximation has full system visibility too
           | (ignoring it apparently has a bug limiting its actual view of
           | all system ram on the higher capacity models). It could in
           | theory be injecting/monitoring the nic as well. AKA, its just
           | as privileged as the ME.
           | 
           | So why do you "trust" it more than the intel? If anything the
           | intel probably has 100x as many security researchers
           | analyzing it.
           | 
           | Also RE power, the pi idle power tends to be quite poor. Mine
           | idles at ~4W, which is worse than a number of low end intel
           | machines I have, so for something that might sit idle for
           | >12H a day, it might be less efficient than recent intel
           | machines.
        
             | blueflow wrote:
             | > It could in theory be injecting/monitoring the nic as
             | well.
             | 
             | Intel is known to do this shit, Broadcom isn't, yet.
             | 
             | I'd always prefer a blob on the boot partition over an
             | EEPROM that i can't access without disassembly.
        
               | StillBored wrote:
               | When the machine owner asks for it, has there been a case
               | where its been caught sending packets otherwise?
               | 
               | I mean its a "feature" being sold, if you get a vpro/amt
               | machine it still needs to be turned on (the couple I
               | have, have bios options for enabling/disabling the
               | management features).
        
             | Sirened wrote:
             | >ignoring it apparently has a bug limiting its actual view
             | of all system ram on the higher capacity models
             | 
             | AFAIK that SoC had big and little DMA engines. The little
             | engines can't reach the upper half of memory but the bigger
             | ones can, which means you can just use the big DMA engines
             | to muck with any RAM you yourself can't directly see. It's
             | annoying for practical purposes but it doesn't have any
             | security value.
        
         | throwaway81523 wrote:
         | Pi 400 is about $70, or with power supply and mouse and a few
         | other goodies it is $100. It is essentially a 4gb pi 4 built
         | into a keyboard. The power supply is a basic 15 watt usb-c
         | cube, so you probably have one around already. 400's are fairly
         | easy to buy, unlike 4's. It would be nice if they made an 8gb
         | one. I wonder if DIY upgrade is possible.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | good to know! I'll probably be buying a bunch and tearing
           | then apart to use since the pi 4 is so hard to find.
        
             | musicale wrote:
             | The 400 motherboard is laptop like/long and narrow vs. the
             | credit-card style Pi4.
        
         | culopatin wrote:
         | Does it run on low voltage dc?
        
           | PaulWaldman wrote:
           | Yes, it runs on 12VDC.
        
         | mattkrause wrote:
         | GPIO pins.
         | 
         | If you want to connect a "regular PC" to the real world, you
         | can get a USB DAQ but even the cheapo LabJack, NI or MCC models
         | are at least a hundred bucks.
        
           | haradion wrote:
           | A little microcontroller with USB support (I like the
           | Raspberry Pi Pico) can help with your GPIO woes.
        
             | ozim wrote:
             | I bet it is a bit more hassle than RPi.
        
               | haradion wrote:
               | Sure, in many cases. Depending on the situation, though,
               | it may be no more hassle than any other USB GPIO device,
               | so it's a decent enough cheap solution if you can't or
               | don't want to use a Pi or a similar SBC.
        
             | chasd00 wrote:
             | with circuit python (basically Micropython) from adafruit
             | you can open a screen session to the USB port and get a
             | REPL interface. I wonder if you could set something up to
             | script input and output from REPL (i'm not a python
             | expert). If you could then you'd have a little pipe to the
             | micro-controller where you could enter python and have it
             | execute and return a value. From there you have all the
             | GPIO and other features available on the microcontroller
             | available to you on your computer.
             | 
             | I have one of adadruit's RP2040 boards and use the REPL a
             | lot to talk to other things connected to the i2c bus. For
             | example, controlling servos from a servo board, or getting
             | orientation data from an IMU. Basically, i treat the
             | circuit python REPL like a command line
             | 
             | https://www.adafruit.com/product/4884
        
           | StillBored wrote:
           | The GPIO on the PI is compromised for any hard realtime usage
           | by the fact its running linux (ignoring what can be done with
           | a lot of extra work with a RT kernel and pinning cores).
           | 
           | For non realtime use, the $10 USB->GPIO ones work fine on any
           | computer with USB.
           | 
           | In fact many of them are just ESP's, and work even better
           | than the pi for hard real-time because you write custom
           | bitbanging ardunio code and send the results/control signal
           | over the USB. They become custom peripherals with a
           | /dev/ttyUSB endpoint.
        
             | chasd00 wrote:
             | On my pi zero w, for realtime needs like pwm I use a
             | dedicated controller and access it over the i2c bus. It
             | works just fine.
             | 
             | https://www.adafruit.com/product/815
             | 
             | I got my pi zero w a lonnng time ago when you could
             | actually find them.
        
           | easygenes wrote:
           | The LattePanda 3 Delta [1] has a Celeron N5105 and RasPi
           | levels of GPIO pins.                 1:
           | https://www.dfrobot.com/product-2594.html
        
             | mattkrause wrote:
             | But it's $200 more...(but it's also in stock).
        
           | ThrowawayR2 wrote:
           | The Odroid H3 / H3+ is a x86 SBC that has a 24-pin GPIO
           | header and is only moderately more expensive.
        
         | pizza234 wrote:
         | > I recently purchased a mini PC with an Intel N5105, 16GB of
         | Ram, 512GB NVME SSD, two gigabit ethernet ports, two HDMI
         | ports, many USB ports, and Wifi 6. This system was $180, all in
         | 
         | That's an unusually low price, assuming it's new. Can you give
         | a reference of the shop where you purchased it?
         | 
         | For example, the first price I've found of a Gigabyte Brix (a
         | relatively common mini PC) with an N2807 + 8 GB RAM + 512 GB
         | SSD + no wifi, is 210+ USD.
         | 
         | One of the cheapest x86 systems that I'm aware of, is the
         | Odroid H3 (+), which still costs 129$ without RAM/disk/Wifi.
         | 
         | This is definitely a machine I'd suggest as ARM SBC competitor,
         | but I'm not sure that the price is representative of mini x86
         | systems (when I was looking for one, a few years ago, it was
         | the cheapest by a significant amount).
        
           | easygenes wrote:
           | He probably got something like a MeLE Quieter3 on sale or
           | used. They're usually closer to $300 with specs like that.
        
           | PaulWaldman wrote:
           | It is a Beelink model from Amazon a couple of weeks ago.
        
             | rr888 wrote:
             | Presumably this one, is a good deal.
             | https://www.amazon.com/Processor-Beelink-Computer-Support-
             | Di...
        
               | PaulWaldman wrote:
               | Yup! Currently $190 with the coupon.
               | 
               | Amazon seems to have multiple listing for Beelink PCs
               | with the exact same specifications, but different price
               | points.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Now $219 with coupon.
        
               | rr888 wrote:
               | Interesting, I still see $249 with click the box for $60
               | off.
        
           | xbfjvusb6 wrote:
           | Search the CPU name on AliExpress.
        
         | pacifika wrote:
         | The pi 400 was PS80 (unit only) recently
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | > I do think the PI is great from the hobbyist and industrial
         | perspective, but to just use it as an inexpensive PC seems like
         | a waste.
         | 
         | Given the current availability and prices, yes. Mind you, they
         | started much, much cheaper.
        
         | sbarre wrote:
         | I'd love to know where you got that PC for that price.
         | 
         | I just spent 20 minutes doing some searches in all the usual
         | suspects (Amazon, eBay, AliXpress, and some online stores I can
         | usually get good prices from) and the cheapest I found for the
         | configuration you specified was around $400..
         | 
         | Mostly it seems to be the RAM that boosts the cost. For 8GB I
         | can get it down to $260, but I've seen nothing even close to
         | $180.
         | 
         | Edit: I see elsewhere in the thread it's a Beelink from Amazon.
         | Around ~$237 is still the cheapest I can find..
         | 
         | Still a good price.
        
           | veqq wrote:
           | Apply the coupon and it's 190:
           | https://www.amazon.com/Processor-Beelink-Computer-Support-
           | Di...
        
             | sbarre wrote:
             | It shows as $279 for me with a $60 coupon.. Just being
             | pedantic though, that's still a great price.
        
           | kajecounterhack wrote:
           | The prices went up recently, but another similar one is the
           | Morefine M8S (on aliexpress). N5105, 16G ram, 512GB SSD, 3x
           | HDMI, 3x USB 3.0, 2x gigabit ethernet, Wi-Fi6, BT5.2, USB-C
           | charging, ~$253.
        
             | hello_moto wrote:
             | What's the use-case for this PC by the way?
             | 
             | I'm in the market for a cheap PC/Laptop for my kids
             | (minecraft, zoom, MS teams, chrome, and Roblox)
        
               | BackBlast wrote:
               | N5105 Jasper Lake systems do this pretty well. Has a good
               | iGPU, particularly for a low end budget intel chip.
               | Efficient. Has Quick Sync for video.
               | 
               | The laptops use the N6000 chip, N5105 is for the small
               | desktop lines. There is also a more expensive N6005 for
               | desktop.
               | 
               | N6000 is more aggressive in power savings. So higher
               | single thread, lower multi. It also has more silicon
               | dedicated to the GPU, which is about a 25% boost (30
               | execution units vs 24).
               | 
               | The biggest practical difference I've seen is that 95% of
               | the laptops have fixed memory that tops out at 8GB. HP
               | has one that accepts an SO-DIMM. If this is a reasonable
               | level for the minecraft they do then you should be fine.
               | I know with my kid's systems I had to go up to 12GB
               | because of the mods they like.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | r/buildapcsales on Reddit is pretty good for catching these
           | sorts of deals. You'd want to filter by the prebuilt, HTPC or
           | Barebones tags.
        
       | talkingtab wrote:
       | I use a Raspberry Pi 4/8G as my maine (ha ha) development
       | machine. I have a special case, which is that I mostly ssh into
       | my websites hosted by digital ocean. I usually have several
       | terminal sessions (+3), some local terminal sessions and firefox.
       | I use the pi mainly because I can have two monitors at once.
       | 
       | I just installed ubuntu 22.10 desktop and it appears to work
       | well. I use ubuntu mainely because it is what I run on my remote
       | systems and as long as "it just works" locally then I don't have
       | to deal with many differences between the systems.
       | 
       | The best thing I did was to have it boot from a cheap kingston
       | 120GB ssd ($18 now). Makes a world of difference in speed.
       | 
       | My biggest complaint is that firefox is a little slow on the
       | uptake, I am usually debugging some web interaction with
       | developer tools and once the page is up it is as fast as I need.
       | 
       | I don't play games, I don't edit videos (haven't tried) or other
       | things.
       | 
       | Key take-away: for development
        
         | TMWNN wrote:
         | >I have a special case, which is that I mostly ssh into my
         | websites hosted by digital ocean.
         | 
         | This sounds like what I do, except I mosh from a MacBook into a
         | VM on my own server, which in turn runs tmux with mosh sessions
         | to other machines, physical (including the same MacBook) and
         | virtual. They are all local, but there is nothing preventing
         | the sessions from being hosted somewhere else.
         | 
         | >I usually have several terminal sessions (+3), some local
         | terminal sessions and firefox
         | 
         | Do you run Firefox remotely? I run Chrome and Firefox on the
         | MacBook I use to mosh into the first aforementioned machine
         | above. I read mail on one of the terminal sessions with VM on
         | emacs; it passes via SSH URLs from messages to the local
         | browser. Overall, I am very, very satisfied with my setup.
        
         | mypastself wrote:
         | Yeah, SSD is a must for any serious work on a Pi, although I
         | still can't imagine running something like IntelliJ IDEA
         | directly on it.
         | 
         | With the recent release of browser-access VS Code, I feel like
         | we're only a few years away from cloud development as dominant
         | paradigm. We'll grouse about it here ("what happens when my
         | network connection fails?") but I suspect using a "terminal" to
         | develop on a remote machine is likely to be the only option for
         | future generations of developers.
        
           | mbreese wrote:
           | Coding in an ephemeral development environment is actually
           | kinda nice. Whether that is a fully remote system or inside a
           | Docker container. It's nice to have a fully specified
           | development environment that can be recreated at any time.
           | I've started doing this for some newer projects and it's
           | refreshing. You don't need to install compilers or libraries
           | on your live system -- it's all stored in the container.
           | 
           | This is what I see as the winning paradigm. Whether that
           | environment is remote or local is almost an implementation
           | detail, and should be unimportant to the developer at the
           | keyboard.
           | 
           | But the remote development aspect is even more important if
           | you do notebook-style data analysis (which is increasingly
           | more like traditional programming). In this case,
           | browser/HTML based notebooks have been a game changer in that
           | you can have long running sessions on heavy duty servers,
           | controlled from smaller local machines. And the local machine
           | only has to have a web browser.
           | 
           | Incidentally, my first foray into this development model was
           | when I was trying to use my iPad as a dev machine. I hooked
           | up an RPi to the iPad over USB-C and connected to the RPi
           | running code-server (before vscode had their own remote
           | server option). It worked surprisingly well, but the biggest
           | hinderance was storage. And if you're already connecting over
           | a web browser, no need to limit yourself to a locally
           | attached RPi...
        
         | indigodaddy wrote:
         | This is interesting. I wonder if one could use PINN or NOOBS on
         | a portable USB SSD drive as well in order to multiboot the
         | needful on one bigly ssd..(?)
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | > The best thing I did was to have it boot from a cheap
         | kingston 120GB ssd ($18 now). Makes a world of difference in
         | speed.
         | 
         | Nice. I also want to try this, just to get the most speed and
         | performance out of it, without giving in reliability or
         | durability. I should also check out Jeff Geerling's comparison
         | of different MicroSD cards for the RPi.
        
           | happyhardcore wrote:
           | I started out using a cheap MicroSD and it only lasted a week
           | or two before failing; I've since replaced it with a 128 GB
           | SATA SSD with a USB3-SATA dongle I bought off Amazon. No SD
           | card needed and it's served me incredibly well. I figured
           | that even the best MicroSD card isn't going to be designed to
           | run as a computer's boot drive, and SATA SSDs are cheap and
           | plentiful.
        
             | rambambram wrote:
             | I should definitely look into this, thanks!
        
           | justin66 wrote:
           | If you want to avoid sacrificing reliability, get a Samsung
           | portable SSD. SSD-SATA dongles and SD cards will all
           | represent a step down in reliability.
        
             | rambambram wrote:
             | Thanks for the tip!
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | I figure I could totally main a Raspberry Pi in a pinch. With
       | Emacs and some programming tools, what more do you need? I'd have
       | to budget browser tabs and I'm not going to edit 4K video or run
       | some corpo enterprise microservice architecture on the thing, but
       | it's still more than enough computer for many basic tasks and
       | fairly significant programming.
        
       | lygten wrote:
       | Ive used a RPi4 4GB as my only computer for well over a year,
       | without any issues. I use my VPS via SSH for any heavy coding
       | tasks. Libre Office, Claws email suit my everyday needs. I'd also
       | like to my get my hands on the 8GB Pi4 version. In theses times
       | of expensive electricity bills, I can have the pi running all
       | day.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | I always wondered how the 4GB version would perform for my use
         | case! What OS do you run?
        
       | culopatin wrote:
       | If someone knows of a replacement that would work in a car that's
       | not $200 please let me know. Needs to run on 11-15v dc and not
       | have a fan so I don't destroy it when I hit a pothole. Needs to
       | boot Linux and run a Java app.
        
       | josefresco wrote:
       | This is nice but I can't even buy one! I've been "casually"
       | shopping for a Raspberry Pi for a while now and it seems almost
       | impossible without assistance from a bot, or immense effort.
        
         | anaganisk wrote:
         | canakit for 2GB and 8GB version seems to be always in stock if
         | you are okay with buying the extreme kit.
        
         | doublepg23 wrote:
         | I set up an RSS-to-Telegram bot on fly.io connected to this
         | feed https://rpilocator.com/ and it helped my buddies get a
         | bunch.
        
           | josefresco wrote:
           | Thanks I tried that site for a few weeks but was never able
           | to order in time. I guess I need further automation like you.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | True. I was lucky enough to already have one. I recently tried
         | to find another one here in The Netherlands. Usually they're
         | out of stock but can be backordered.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | jacob019 wrote:
         | Right, and while the RPi ecosystem is fantastic, there are
         | better processors for the price. I've been patiently waiting
         | for the RK3588. I think it's the first ARM chip that will make
         | a suitable desktop replacement for me, with dual monitors. The
         | Orange Pi 5 will be a good value, if it ever drops. The Rock 5
         | Model B is available now, but the price is too high. I recently
         | bought an Inovato Quadra. It's a TV box with Linux preinstalled
         | for $30, comes with a nice case too. I've also been buying old
         | chromeboxes on eBay and flashing them with mr.chromebox's EUFI
         | firmware to make them into regular computers. It's just amazing
         | what you can get for $30 these days.
        
         | SyneRyder wrote:
         | Would you consider a Pi 400, the model with the C64-like
         | keyboard? They still seem to be available, and seem ideal for
         | the daily computer use-case. Though I guess the difference
         | between 4GB & 8GB RAM is significant.
        
           | josefresco wrote:
           | I'll consider it (for myself), but I'd rather have just the
           | board as I was looking to gift two to my nephews.
           | 
           | Someone else pointed me to CanaKit which does have kits for
           | sale (and in stock) that include the individual components:
           | 
           | https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi-4-extreme-aluminum-
           | case...
        
       | 404mm wrote:
       | If it works for you than that's all what matters. If you want a
       | quiet computer without the HW configuration constrains of single
       | board with no slots, I recommend older HP EliteDesk G2 (or newer)
       | 35W SFF. You can get them for about the same price as RPi 4/8GB
       | and they have the option of M.2 SSD and ram expansion. The fan is
       | down to minimal RPM (imo not even audible) and it stays cool. I
       | have been using these for my home servers for years. Just like
       | you, I cannot stand the noise of fans and these are sitting
       | directly behind me and are completely quiet. Even with the
       | slowest cpu options (i3), the performance is in multiples of Pi)
        
         | indigodaddy wrote:
         | Confirmed I bought 2 HP EliteDesk G2 within the last two years
         | and they really are great for a non-gaming workstation or
         | server. Both under $135. One was an I5-4590 and the other an
         | I7-4770T (both 4th gen and generally capable CPUs), both with
         | 16G ram and an SSD. One had no OS, however the onboard license
         | allowed me to install Win 10 Pro without any issue. Obviously
         | these are also great for throwing Linux onto.
        
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