[HN Gopher] PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any pos...
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       PayPal restores to its TOS $2,500 charge for any post they don't
       like
        
       Author : mhb
       Score  : 49 points
       Date   : 2022-10-26 20:25 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | This does not seem to be accurate. I couldn't find anything in
       | their TOS other than reasonable sounding restrictions on what can
       | be sold. Sorry.
       | 
       | https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full
       | 
       | https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/acceptableuse-full
        
         | torstenvl wrote:
         | Admittedly I haven't done a close read, but on first skimming I
         | didn't see anything that limits this to commercial transactions
         | between arms-length buyers and sellers. Where are you getting
         | that from?
         | 
         | To my view, there's a world of difference between "You can't
         | use PayPal as a payment processor for gun sales" and "You can't
         | use PayPal to pay pals back for covering your range fees last
         | Saturday."
         | 
         | Yet the AUP seems broad enough to cover both: "You may not use
         | the PayPal service for activities that... relate to
         | transactions involving... ammunition, firearms, or certain
         | firearm parts or accessories...."
         | https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/acceptableuse-full
        
       | roxgib wrote:
       | Right now there's a private equity firm somewhere scheming to buy
       | out PayPal and confiscate everyone's money
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Remember the guy who collected tens of thousands of dollars for
       | Katrina victims and PayPal just closed their account and stole
       | all the money?
       | 
       | This POS company is a blight on humanity. Neither their
       | executives nor the government officials that should be regulating
       | them care, since they're all laughing all the way to the bank.
        
         | mangosteenjuice wrote:
        
       | hobbitstan wrote:
       | I cancelled my PayPal account after it was first announced a few
       | weeks ago. This just makes me even more sure it wasn't a
       | 'mistake' on their part.
        
       | ccvannorman wrote:
       | Is there any source for this other than Twitter? Is PayPal's TOS
       | public? I was unable to find a reliable source for this in my
       | Google search just now, the best I can find is
       | https://mindmatters.ai/2022/10/paypal-can-still-fine-its-use...
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | One could try typing "PayPal terms of service" into a search
         | engine. If your experience mirrors mine, it will be the first
         | link. Here, I'll save you some scrolling:
         | 
         | https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#...
        
         | ccvannorman wrote:
         | The tweet links to https://gritdaily.com/pr-crisis-paypal/
         | 
         | Paypal's TOS mention $2,500 fine for "Acceptable use"
         | violations but that has to do with sending money. NOT what you
         | post online.
         | 
         | https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full
         | https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/acceptableuse-full
        
           | nicce wrote:
           | > including, but not limited to, internal administrative
           | costs incurred by PayPal to monitor and track violations,
           | damage to PayPal's brand and reputation, and penalties
           | imposed upon PayPal by its business partners resulting from a
           | user's violation - considering all currently existing
           | circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the
           | range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated
           | because, due to the nature of the violations of the
           | Acceptable Use Policy, actual damages would be impractical or
           | extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such
           | damages directly from any existing balance in any PayPal
           | account you control.
           | 
           | This is such a board statement than they an decide whatever
           | they want and pull that fine.
           | 
           | And if we look for the Acceptable Use Policy, there is a
           | line:
           | 
           | > (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms
           | of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial
           | exploitation of a crime
           | 
           | https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/acceptableuse-full
        
       | indigodaddy wrote:
       | This is relevant mainly to sellers, would that be correct?
       | 
       | Also, is this a "fee" that becomes due on some sort of bill that
       | you can choose to ignore, or can/will they actually pull money
       | from a linked account?
        
         | torstenvl wrote:
         | They won't pull it from a linked account, just your PayPal
         | balance... for now.
         | 
         | "You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per
         | violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a
         | reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal's actual damages....
         | PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing
         | balance in any PayPal account you control."
         | 
         | https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#...
        
           | CodeSgt wrote:
           | Hmm. And what do they do if you don't maintain a $2500
           | balance in any linked accounts? Do they send it to
           | collections? Garnish any received money recieved to the
           | account until the amount is paid in full? Both?
        
       | Bellend wrote:
       | I used to use paypal for everything but it occurred to me that I
       | haven't used it since 2018. What niche does it support that
       | direct payments don't? When I think of paypal, I think of delays.
        
         | Andys wrote:
         | I like using it for subscriptions, because it lists them all in
         | one place and gives me a hassle-free way to cancel each of
         | them.
        
         | OmahaBoy69 wrote:
         | >What niche does it support that direct payments don't?
         | 
         | For buying stuff online it removes the need to fiddle around
         | with CCs (+ trusting individual websites with CC info) and lets
         | you checkout quickly. It's also great if you get scammed out of
         | your money somehow... Their chargeback system is stupidly easy
         | and is infamous for always siding with the buyer.
         | 
         | It sucks when you're on the other side of the transaction,
         | though. Used to run a Minecraft server as a teenager, and they
         | gave me a huge amount of grief between indisputable chargebacks
         | and locking my account once for KYC purposes.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | When it comes to banking there are a lot of modern "shortcuts"
         | that make it safe and painless pretty much everywhere in the
         | world.
         | 
         | The problem is that there's also a lot of inertia. For every
         | "shortcut" user, there are hundreds if not thousands of users
         | who don't know about and use sub-par systems (such as PayPal)
         | instead.
         | 
         | Shitty companies like PayPal (or various banks which still
         | charge insane fees for wire/ACH transfers) rely on that.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | For me, PayPal is only a route _in_ , as a fallback for those
         | who really can't use anything else. If you decide to use it to
         | pay me (despite my warnings and alternative suggestions), I
         | make it very clear that _you_ are on the hook for any issues
         | arising from it - PayPal money is only considered paid when it
         | hits my _real_ bank account - if they seize the money
         | beforehand, it 's as if you haven't paid me and it will be up
         | to _you_ to help me resolve the situation. That 's how people
         | _should_ be using this scum.
         | 
         | Similarly, if I pay a supplier via PayPal and they refuse to
         | deliver the goods, _the supplier_ is getting their ass sued for
         | goods /services non-rendered. The fact they use a crooked
         | payment processor (despite my advice) isn't my fault at the end
         | of the day.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-26 23:01 UTC)