[HN Gopher] Lego Is Discontinuing Mindstorms
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Lego Is Discontinuing Mindstorms
        
       Author : dmarinoc
       Score  : 292 points
       Date   : 2022-10-26 20:10 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.brickfanatics.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.brickfanatics.com)
        
       | px43 wrote:
       | Bummer, I feel like Mindstorms landed right in that gap for me
       | where I was a bit too old for them when they first came out (in
       | high school, already having a blast with web programming), and
       | now I have a two year old who builds giant Duplo castles, has
       | conversations with our household robots, wears robot pajamas, and
       | I'm super excited for them to age into robotics toys.
       | 
       | This SPIKE Prime thing seems neat, but as others have mentioned,
       | a bit bland. Hopefully LEGO comes out with some rad space robot
       | themed sets at some point.
       | 
       | Does anyone know if LEGO has or is working on some sort of
       | Minecraft style environment where you can build cool stuff, and
       | then develop the programs and run them in the simulated
       | environment? Then maybe you can build the machines IRL and run
       | the same code to get the same behavior? Even a single player
       | simulator would be pretty neat, though multiplayer would be
       | ideal. Maybe what I'm hoping for is something like a MuJoCo for
       | kids, and it seems like LEGO would be a perfect match to have a
       | product like that.
        
       | karlmdavis wrote:
       | Man, playing with Mindstorms is some of the most fun I've had as
       | an adult. This announcement is a shame.
       | 
       | I spent some time going through all of their basic examples in
       | Rust, which was just delightfully silly.
        
       | iancmceachern wrote:
       | What!! Nooo!
        
       | klaudioz wrote:
       | I'm very sad... I did my engineering thesis with a Lego
       | Mindstorms on 2009
        
       | sitkack wrote:
       | Shame on Lego!
        
       | ievans wrote:
       | Sad to see this as someone who enjoyed these as a kid and
       | entering robotics competitions based off of them; hopefully the
       | new products will keep the spirit alive.
       | 
       | There was even some decent FOSS tooling that developed on top of
       | Mindstorms: I used NXC (Not eXactly C,
       | https://bricxcc.sourceforge.net/nbc/welcome.html) which was a
       | C-like language for programming Lego Mindstorms. It looks like
       | the last release of NXC was in 2011.
        
         | mlyle wrote:
         | Pybrick/python runs well on both Mindstorms EV3 and the new
         | thing (Spike Prime).
        
         | teraflop wrote:
         | Similar story here. I remember getting my first exposure to
         | embedded development at a relatively young age through brickOS
         | (https://brickos.sourceforge.net/), which was a complete
         | replacement operating system for the _original_ Mindstorms RCX
         | (predating the NXT).
         | 
         | That version of the hardware was so old that it didn't even
         | have non-volatile storage. Every time you changed the
         | batteries, it would boot into a minimal ROM bootloader which
         | was just powerful enough to download the rest of the firmware
         | into RAM, via an infrared connection to your PC. That had the
         | nice side effect of making the RCX very hacker-friendly,
         | because it was almost impossible to permanently "brick" it
         | (ha!).
        
         | mFixman wrote:
         | My first real programming was NQC (Not Quite C, probably
         | related to NXC?). I owe it my programming abilities.
         | 
         | Lego Mindstorms was one of the best creative learning tools you
         | can give a child; my life started the day I stopped using the
         | building manual and started building my own stuff by trial and
         | error.
         | 
         | The world would be a better place if everyone grew up with the
         | opportunities that I did. I wish schools would just let
         | children do whatever with Lego instead of filling your day with
         | restrictive lessons in loud classrooms.
        
         | sethgrisham wrote:
         | I grew up using mindstorms in FLL and I just began coaching a
         | team this year. I'm pretty impressed with the new Spike Prime,
         | and although it has its quirks, over all I'd say it's a good
         | improvement over the last generation, plus I get to teach the
         | kids python which has honestly been a blast!
        
       | brutus1213 wrote:
       | This is sad news. I hoarded a bunch of lego mindstorms and other
       | robot sets over the news as my kids are still young. I cracked
       | open a littlebits set (the star wars one) and was very
       | dissapointed that the app that goes with it was removed from the
       | app store.
       | 
       | My investment in a bunch of these devices will be devalued a lot
       | :(
        
       | jnwatson wrote:
       | I wonder what programs like FIRST Lego League will do. That was
       | an amazing experience for my kid.
        
         | dybber wrote:
         | LEGO Spike Prime
        
           | harikb wrote:
           | School & independent teams have spent $$$ buying lego parts
           | and it is still sad to see things deprecated when they could
           | have easily upgraded the "cpu" and kept things compatible.
        
             | Nullabillity wrote:
             | Spike Prime and 51515 (the final Mindstorms generation)
             | seem to be basically the same thing (which isn't new, back
             | in the NXT times you had NXT and NXT Education Edition).
             | 
             | I'd be very surprised if they weren't compatible with each
             | other.
        
       | galoisscobi wrote:
       | This is sad. Lego Mindstorms played a huge role in my life
       | trajectory. I discovered RCX and NXT in middle school, absolutely
       | loved building stuff with them and went to robotics competitions.
       | 
       | It got me really interested in robotics to the point where I
       | decided I would move halfway across the world for college to get
       | educated further in robotics. I did that and I am now a
       | professional roboticist. None of that would've happened if it
       | wasn't for Lego Mindstorms. Sad to see it go. Their spike prime
       | kit looks way too basic compared to how mature and extensible the
       | mindstorms ecosystem is.
        
         | kypro wrote:
         | I also entered a Mindstorms competition at my school and it had
         | a similar impact on me. To this day I look back on that
         | competition as one of my best childhood memories and I think it
         | was a large part of why I went on to eventually study computer
         | science.
         | 
         | I suspect there are many of us out there... A very sad day
         | indeed.
        
       | FullyFunctional wrote:
       | It's a shame but I can see how it's a harder sell than the nth
       | iteration of a scene from say Harry Potter.
       | 
       | IMhO, they could do well by combining programmable elements with
       | thematic sets, say add programmable motion to a haunted house.
       | They have already tip-toed down this path, eg. the roller coaster
       | has an optional motor function. However the pure approach of
       | Mindstorm clearly has too narrow a market.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | They aren't discontinuing it because its hard to sell in that
         | space. They are retiring it in favor of their newer offering in
         | the space (LEGO Education Spike Prime). They also have, for
         | programmable robotics, the younger-kid focussed LEGO Boost.
         | Plus they have at least one DUPLO set aimed at what I think of
         | as the "tactile coding toy" space (where instructions are
         | represented as physical configurations of objects), DUPLO
         | Coding Express.
        
       | belkinpower wrote:
       | This is really sad. NXT-G was my first programming language. Not
       | sure if I'd be the same person I am today without that
       | experience.
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | I was given a Lego RCX kit for Christmas in about 98 at the age
       | of 12. It was my first exposure to "proper programming" with its
       | visual flowchart based language (I was already playing around
       | with HTML). I spent days building various inventions with that
       | set. It very much set me in the path I'm still on today.
       | 
       | I'm sure someone will come out with a new product range that
       | fills that gap. My eldest kid is 8, I was planing to introduce
       | her to Mindstorms in the next year or so...
        
       | omnibrain wrote:
       | That's somewhat bittersweet. The company I now work for and lead
       | was inspired by mindstorms. Our founder had written a DOS based
       | software for alarm receiving centers. Even back then he and his
       | prime customer were unsatisfied with the restricting logic of
       | managing alarms by only having a few choices how to react to an
       | alarm. Usually show some text, and have a person call someone and
       | then write up a protocol. So he build some sort of programming
       | environment for alarm receiving software.
       | 
       | Now they could implement individual alarm workflows for their
       | customers. But that was still nothing his customers could use
       | themselves, because they still would have to know how to program.
       | 
       | But then he saw an ad for mindstorms in the Lego catalogue his
       | son brought home from the toy store. That inspired him to write a
       | completely new software. Windows based with a their own graphical
       | programming environment embedded.
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | Bittersweet!? What's the _sweet_ part of Lego discontinuing
         | Mindstorms?
        
           | fuckstick wrote:
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | They're likely shifting focus to a different programmable
           | block product line, namely SPIKE Prime. So it's more of a
           | changing of the guard than the end of robotic educational
           | LEGO.
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | That might be okay; what's that like?
        
           | omnibrain wrote:
           | I'm not sure if bittersweet is the right word, english is not
           | my first language. But I think the bitterness of Mindstorms
           | ending reminding me of the beginnings of our company could be
           | considered sweet. So I would say it's a bittersweet moment.
           | 
           | I have to admit, though, I never used Mindstorms and as far
           | as I know he never bought mindstorms for his children either.
           | ;)
        
       | fny wrote:
       | Can they at least open source all the CAD so we can 3D print
       | these suckers?
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | > 3D print these suckers?
         | 
         | Famously, LEGO has an extremely tight manufacturing tolerance
         | that's around 10um [1]. Your 3d printer is much better than
         | mine. :)
         | 
         | 1. Page 8: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego#cite_ref-
         | Companyprofile_3...
        
           | stas2k wrote:
           | Currently 3D printinga lot of Lego rail on my FDM printer.
           | Although not perfect, it does snap onto original rail and to
           | its 3D printed peers. Lego pieces do snap to the dimples as
           | well, although too tight.
           | 
           | Main use case for me is to lay some track between rooms for
           | kid's trains.
        
           | AlmostAnyone wrote:
           | SLA printer could do it, they even mention using it for
           | prototyping on the wiki page
        
             | NegativeLatency wrote:
             | Probably not as tough as Lego though
        
             | sbierwagen wrote:
             | With SLA resin at $90 a liter, I don't know much much money
             | you'd actually save.
        
           | freefruit wrote:
           | I have made compatible parts with my at home FDM printer.
        
             | sleepybrett wrote:
             | I have too on my TAZ, but they either require a bunch of
             | sanding to get the fit right or they are far too loose. I
             | wonder if the tolerances on the resin printers are accurate
             | enough.
        
       | zactato wrote:
       | RIP My Robotics professor developed ROBOLAB with Lego + LabView.
       | In return, Lego funded part of the robotics department. We had
       | the most amazing Lego lab. Bins of every shape piece you could
       | ask for. It was really a childhood dream come to life.
        
         | yreg wrote:
         | ROBOLAB was great.
        
         | 509engr wrote:
         | When they first announced the Mindstorms kit, I was obsessed
         | with the idea, but we were a Mac family. My parents somehow
         | obtained a Robolab kit from the Lego educational catalog, which
         | did run on Mac. I had so many good memories of building with
         | that kit, but there were a number of plans I had found for
         | Mindstorms that uses parts not included with the Robolab kit.
         | 
         | When I was in a freshman engineering class that used version 1
         | mindstorms kits a few years later, my fellow students were
         | amazed at my understanding of how to build with the kits. It
         | also help with another lab used LabVIEW.
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | I always preferred the Gilbert erector sets.
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure I had this as a kid. It had very memorable
         | stamped steel girders . I think we built some sort of ferris
         | wheel (not sure which exact model) and I was really unhappy
         | with how slow/weak it was. it was a real depressing moment.
         | Never quite forgot it. Took a good three and half decades
         | before I finally learned how to make high torque spinning
         | things (motor torque got better, easier, and cheaper).
        
         | slimsag wrote:
         | Erector sets were incredible, as a kid I built RC cars out of
         | those with some over-powered motors and such. Super fun times.
         | 
         | I would guess Mindstorms gives more of an intro to programming,
         | while Erector is better for mechanical engineering.
         | 
         | (also, hey! I was that weird kid at Handmade Seattle last year
         | who asked to shake your hand :) )
        
           | WalterBright wrote:
           | I'd attach Cox engines to them <g>.
           | 
           | It was a pleasure to meet you!
           | 
           | P.S. My mom told me that I couldn't handle the tiny screws
           | used to put the Erector sets together. She was wrong :-) I
           | spent endless hours building things with it.
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Erector was discontinued before Mindstorms were launched, and
         | were not programmable.
         | 
         | Mecanno brand has programmable robots, but not the range of
         | sensors that Mindstorms had.
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | You can still buy them secondhand.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | I don't know about Mecano, but the Erector sets online are
             | in pretty sad condition, unsurprising since they're >50
             | years old now.
             | 
             | Sometimes I'll get from ebay one of the battered metal
             | boxes they came in. They make nice nostalgic decorations.
        
       | lacker wrote:
       | I have many fond memories of Mindstorms...
       | 
       | In college I started out a math major. The first CS class I took
       | was a robotics class based on Mindstorms, as a sophomore. I
       | remember it was restricted to only juniors and seniors, but it
       | sounded cool, and I found a bug in the course registration system
       | that let me sign up anyway.
       | 
       | It was a great class. It's fun that in computer science there are
       | so many different ways to solve your problems. Within the year I
       | was getting bored of mathematics, and all I really wanted to do
       | was take more CS classes....
        
       | nearmuse wrote:
       | Although they claim to not be abandoning the idea and the
       | trademark altogether, I don't really understand the reasoning
       | behind not using such a seemingly strong brand. Mindstorms
       | appeared pretty popular with hobbyists and in education.
        
       | jollyllama wrote:
       | Does anybody remember any of the Mindstorms flash games on the
       | old Lego game website? Those were pretty great. I especially
       | liked the game where you tracked the spies in the vaguely Eastern
       | European city of Telgrade.
        
       | jamestimmins wrote:
       | Can anyone here recommend the best entry point into robotics for
       | adults? Is Spike a good product, or too kid focused? Background
       | is that I'm a software engineer.
        
       | throwaway4837 wrote:
       | Sad news. My dad got me Lego Mindstorms (the $200 original set)
       | when I was in 5th or 6th grade. It was one of those toys that is
       | so addicting, while also getting you exposed to science,
       | engineering, and computers. I used it for a year and had my fun;
       | I didn't think about it for years after, but it was probably why
       | I ended up joining the Robotics Club in high school. Also
       | probably why I picked up programming classes in college even
       | though my major wasn't programming. I'm grateful to have been
       | exposed to this wonderful, and limitless toy. I really hope the
       | replacement product is as magical as this.
        
       | MegaSec wrote:
       | End of an era
        
       | primitivesuave wrote:
       | I got the original Lego Mindstorms 1.0 kit for my 8th birthday -
       | there was no programming interface, just a way to select one of
       | 256 possible sequences of high-level actions the robot would
       | perform in a loop. I paid for my first car by working at summer
       | camps that taught kids how to use the Mindstorms 2.0 and NXT, and
       | built my first 3D printer with Lejos
       | (https://lejos.sourceforge.io/), Lego Technic parts and a tiny
       | spindle router that could sculpt shapes into floral foam.
       | 
       | While I'm saddened by this news for nostalgic reasons, I
       | personally believe that today's young learners are better served
       | by the proliferation of hobby robotics platforms like
       | Arduino/Raspberry Pi. Every summer camp I worked at would claim
       | that Lego robotics teaches real-world engineering skills, while
       | in reality the students were just happy to stay within the
       | comfort zone of playing with Legos and using a block-based
       | programming environment (one that has quite frankly gone from bad
       | to worse to absolutely horrible with each product cycle). Also,
       | FIRST Lego League does nothing meaningful to prepare students for
       | FIRST - when I donated supplies and a few weeks of mentorship to
       | my former high school's FIRST team, I was dismayed to see how
       | much dead weight the team was carrying in students who
       | participated in the middle school Lego league, who did not have
       | even the basic coding/engineering skills to make any contribution
       | to the high school team other than paying the membership dues.
        
         | sleepybrett wrote:
         | I also had the original mindstorms set from 1996-98, the
         | compute module was the big yellow brick (i think the RCX), you
         | interface with it via a little serial IO tower. There was
         | absolutely a programming interface. It was visual and very
         | scratch like and it was evolved eventually into the programming
         | environment that came with the ev3. It did require a pc to use
         | I think there was a cdrom in the box that contained the
         | software.
         | 
         | Since you mentioned the raspberry pi, you can use one of those
         | with the latest lego spike system as well via a pi HAT:
         | https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/build-hat/
         | 
         | To me as a kid and well as someone a bit older who often pulls
         | out legos to mock up mechanical systems before I dig into
         | solidworks the programming of the robot was a bit secondary to
         | getting the mechanics worked out, and legos are a super fast
         | way to prototype a lot of things (though they do have their
         | limitations for sure). While I'm not one for shielding young
         | people from serious tools, a school or a summer camp might for
         | insurance reasons, lego might still be the way to go.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | app4soft wrote:
       | > _That said, SPIKE Prime is effectively LEGO Education's
       | implementation of MINDSTORMS, so it's tricky to envision how the
       | two platforms could co-exist under a single banner._
       | 
       | And _SPIKE_ web app[0,1] does not work in _Firefox_ :
       | 
       | > _Browser not supported_
       | 
       | > _Use Google Chrome to access the LEGO(r) Education SPIKE(tm)
       | App._
       | 
       | [0] https://education.lego.com/en-us/downloads/spike-
       | app/softwar...
       | 
       | [1] https://spike.legoeducation.com/
        
       | lanman wrote:
       | Cue a few hundred nostalgia posts. Mindstorms was an amazing
       | learning experience in the 00s.
        
       | warbler73 wrote:
       | For me the Mindstorms failed at updates and could not work
       | despite heroic customer service that did not include a refund.
       | They are not a tech company and can not do tech.
       | 
       | Since then I've proven that things like ESP32 Arduino etc
       | actually work to teach small kids real robotics. Mindstorms was
       | always a gimmick.
        
       | mdtrooper wrote:
       | Lego is similar to NintEURndo and Di$ney, they do not support the
       | free culture, instead their lawers fight agains to free software
       | projects or charity events.
       | 
       | Any educational tool/toy must be public domain or free license.
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | What if this kind of thinking would lead to no Legos at all?
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | There's always K'Nex.
        
       | freetime2 wrote:
       | Any alternatives that anyone could suggest for young children
       | looking to get an introduction to robotics?
        
         | sequoia wrote:
         | VexIQ is one big competitor
        
         | miniwark wrote:
         | 'Mindstorm' are more suited for over 10 yo children. For
         | younger children the 'Boost' line (17101 set) may be a good
         | choice (there is nothing said about it in the announcement).
         | Also there is plenty of chinese clones of the previous
         | generations of Mindstorm (and maybe the reason for the
         | discontinuation).
        
         | nolist_policy wrote:
         | Fischertechnik - Basically the direct competitor to Lego
         | Technics. At least in Germany.
        
         | jabiko wrote:
         | As a child I had a total blast building and programming things
         | with Fischertechnik:
         | https://www.fischertechnik.de/en/playing/robot-toys
         | 
         | You have microswitches, photoelectric and magnetic sensors,
         | motors and pneumatic actuators to name a few. It all came with
         | a software to program it all in a flowchart like fashion.
         | 
         | I fondly remember unpacking a set at christmas and playing with
         | it. Honestly, I think Fischertechnik had a huge impact on me
         | and put me on the career path that I am now. While my last
         | experience with Fischertechnik is more than a decade ago, the
         | website seems like they haven't lost their spirit
        
         | primitivesuave wrote:
         | I had tremendous success teaching 7-9 year olds with Piper
         | (https://www.playpiper.com/). It is trivially easy to add
         | moving parts and teach the core concepts of electronics, but
         | the box itself is not great as a robotics platform. In my
         | particular case, the kids also had access to a laser cutter and
         | CAD software that would automatically generate the 2D shapes
         | and joining slots.
        
         | rr888 wrote:
         | quite a few robotics kits associated with microbit and
         | raspberry pi. Though because they use computers they dont feel
         | like fun so much to me.
        
         | nikeee wrote:
         | There is Fischertechnik, a German brand. Don't know how common
         | it is outside Germany. It's pretty close to "real"
         | robotics/construction.
         | 
         | https://www.fischertechnik.de/en
        
           | shagie wrote:
           | I'm aware of it... and its one of the "when I get my desk
           | lego things done, I'll get one of them to play with" - https:
           | //www.fischertechnik.de/en/products/simulating/trainin... has
           | been particularly tempting.
           | 
           | The factory must grow into real space.
        
         | stinkytaco wrote:
         | Spike Prime is their new education branding. This article is
         | kind of misleading since they've been sort of phasing out the
         | Mindstorms branding in favor of a broader education initiative
         | for a while. Spike Prime might not be for very young children,
         | but I'd say a precocious 2nd or 3rd grader could definitely
         | program it.
        
           | mort96 wrote:
           | I'm looking at their Spike Prime stuff now, and nothing I'm
           | finding seems that... interesting? I got my start in
           | programming with the Mindstorms NXT set (this thing:
           | http://www.robotreviews.com/reviews/lego-mindstorms-
           | nxt-8527...), where you got all the parts and instructions
           | needed to build a walking, programmable lego robot. The Spike
           | Prime set looks like... some motors, some sensors, the
           | controller brick, and some parts, but nothing to inspire, no
           | instructions for a cool bipedal robot build, or robot arm, or
           | anything to get the imagination flowing.
           | 
           | Even the bright colors look like something that's designed to
           | educate small kids? The old sets had a "cool" vibe to them.
           | Maybe that made them too gendered, but as a young boy, it
           | certainly helped avoid the shame of "still" playing with
           | lego.
           | 
           | Am I missing something, or does this Spike Prime thing look
           | like less of a replacement and more of a completely different
           | product with a different focus which also just happens to
           | contain programmable lego motors?
        
             | StillBored wrote:
             | I'm a bit out of touch with FLL (my kids aged out), but its
             | not surprising. Little of winning a FLL competition is
             | related to the robotic performance. The team that wins the
             | robotic portions won't necessarily do well overall.
             | 
             | Given that, and the sophistication of many of the teams,
             | and the way the competitions are designed. The best teams
             | are usually just doing some form of preprogrammed dead
             | reckoning sequence and getting a bit lucky and rigorously
             | placing the bot at the beginning.
             | 
             | AKA, while the NXT/EV3/etc devices are capable of sensor
             | feedback, few teams made use of it. Its likely all the FLL
             | teams need for most of the competition is three motor
             | forward/reverse.
             | 
             | PS: Maybe I sorta failed to respond to the main point,
             | which is that the spike kits aren't there to be "cool"
             | sitting on the shelf and excite kids who get them under the
             | tree. They are mostly purchased by educational/FLL teams
             | where the build instructions and/or goals are provided by a
             | 3rd party.
        
         | ngrilly wrote:
         | Wondering the same.
        
       | oifjsidjf wrote:
       | My very 1st programming experience was on this baby as a ~10yo
       | kid.
       | 
       | http://www.technicopedia.com/8479.html
       | 
       | Still remember how instane it felt.
       | 
       | I remember that when constructing the truck I forgot to add in
       | some gears so the claws didn't rise properly and I had to
       | dissasemble the entire cabin again: my dad almost had to force me
       | to do it because I was constructing it for so long that I was
       | totaly tired and just wanted to be done with the damn thing.
        
       | 83457 wrote:
       | They released a new generation not long ago (last year?). Sounded
       | like it wasn't warmly received initially but later they were sold
       | out. Something to do with that?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | TaylorAlexander wrote:
       | As others have noted, they still have an education focused
       | robotics set, it's just not called Mindstorms:
       | https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/lego-education-spike-prim...
       | 
       | As a now-successful robotics engineer, I was the target age when
       | the first Lego mindstorms set came out. Due to the cost it had to
       | be a combined birthday and Christmas present (still obviously
       | very privileged). The simple scratch-like programming system that
       | kit used was great for me as a tween learning robotics.
       | 
       | Today I am designing an open source farming robot as a non profit
       | project! (See my profile)
       | 
       | The early history of Lego Mindstorms is interesting. I didn't
       | realize Seymour Papert was involved but that makes a lot of
       | sense! Especially with the name Mindstorms:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Mindstorms
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindstorms_(book)
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | The Spike system seems like an odd side-step to me. There are
         | some minor improvements, but not really enough to justify
         | breaking compatibility and making people repurchase everything
         | from scratch.
         | 
         | In contrast, Mindstorms replaced the old LEGO/Logo system
         | (which I was fortunate to use in high school), and was a big
         | step forward in a number of ways most noticeably that you
         | didn't have to be tethered to the computer.
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | > not really enough to justify breaking compatibility and
           | making people repurchase everything from scratch
           | 
           | That's LEGO's game plan though X)
        
             | Nullabillity wrote:
             | EV3 was largely compatible with NXT, and while NXT wasn't
             | directly compatible with RIS they sold separate adapter
             | modules. 51515 was a huge regression compared to the rest
             | of the series.
             | 
             | The general LEGO system has also had decades of
             | compatibility at this point...
        
             | sleepybrett wrote:
             | I don't know if thats true. Lego as a corporation has been
             | fairly low on the fuckery index.
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | LEGO kits used to be composed of fully interchangeable
               | parts. While that is still true of the core build, there
               | are now unique parts in every kit. This is driven by
               | sales.
        
           | xrd wrote:
           | I love Legos and by extension the company that makes them,
           | and I still believe what you are saying, that everyone will
           | have to buy new stuff, is exactly the reason the LEGO company
           | is making this choice. They don't make a penny (unless they
           | are somehow involved in a secondary market which probably has
           | much lower margins and higher costs) unless you buy something
           | new, and migrating to a new ecosystem makes so much sense if
           | that's the goal.
        
             | Nullabillity wrote:
             | > unless they are somehow involved in a secondary market
             | 
             | LEGO owns BrickLink, as of a few years ago.
        
         | sleepybrett wrote:
         | FYI if you want to get beefy on the compute side, they make a
         | raspberry pi HAT for integration with the lego spike stuff:
         | https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/build-hat/
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | As I grown man who has built actual robots with all the skills
         | to do embedded programming and mechanical engineering to make
         | robots... I'm still envious of Mindstorms and yet never
         | purchased any despite having the funds to do so.
         | 
         | I think this is the same part of my brain that still thinks
         | getting a PDA is a good idea despite having had a smartphone
         | for I don't know how many years now.
         | 
         | Is there a word for holding on to a desire which has entirely
         | been satisfied with new but different solutions?
        
           | alanbernstein wrote:
           | Nostalgia?
        
         | bnycum wrote:
         | My kid was selected into the robotics club this year, and they
         | are using the Spike Prime kit. Seems like a decent set all
         | things considered for younger kids. My child is in 5th grade
         | and first year robotics. Probably wouldn't invest into it if
         | your child is middle-school or older, but from what I've seen
         | of it a very good kit.
        
           | zebnyc wrote:
           | At what age is it appropriate? My kid is going to be 5 soon
           | and loves playing with Legos. Thanks
        
           | andrepd wrote:
           | Man I wish I had a robotics club growing up x)
        
         | k__ wrote:
         | What would you recommend to kinds these days?
        
           | markscianna wrote:
           | Spike Prime is the replacement, and it's been a nice upgrade
           | for us
        
           | perryh2 wrote:
           | Make Twitter bots :)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | DanCarvajal wrote:
       | Bummer, I remember loving the system when was on the school
       | Botball team in the early 2000s.
        
       | XnoiVeX wrote:
       | They should open source the software so it will be supported by
       | the community.
        
       | lasftew wrote:
       | Looks like https://pybricks.com/ is a usable alternative firmware
       | for the Robot Inventor hub.
        
       | jph wrote:
       | Mindstorms has a long compelling history before LEGO, that
       | includes cybernetics, the Logo programming language, turtle
       | graphics, Braitenberg vehicles, and the rise of the MIT Media
       | Lab.
       | 
       | See the book "Mindstorms: Children, Computers, And Powerful
       | Ideas" by Seymour Papert. Free from MIT.
       | 
       | https://mindstorms.media.mit.edu
       | 
       | https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language)
       | 
       | https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_graphics
       | 
       | https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Braitenberg_vehicle
       | 
       | https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Papert
        
       | the_mitsuhiko wrote:
       | The robot inventor set is awesome. Such a shame to see it being
       | retired. :(
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | Is limited app support a problem anymore? I assume there are
       | complete replacements for the firmware these days?
        
         | dybber wrote:
         | Yes, you can run a debian based distro on them, so they can be
         | programmed in Python or whatever. I guess the question is if
         | they will stop being supported by platforms such as Scratch,
         | which is a very popular way to program them these days
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | Far out, thanks
        
       | jer0me wrote:
       | What a shame, I loved my set as a kid. Hopefully the software
       | will still work or can be made to work with now-discontinued
       | models.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-26 23:00 UTC)