[HN Gopher] Inventing the Sustainable Batteries of the Future
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Inventing the Sustainable Batteries of the Future
Author : doener
Score : 55 points
Date : 2022-10-26 10:30 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (battery2030.eu)
(TXT) w3m dump (battery2030.eu)
| photochemsyn wrote:
| This looks like part of a larger overall EU 'strategic action
| plan' for developing a (sort of) closed-loop battery
| manufacturing and recycling industry across the EU's single-
| market system. Closed-loop implies that battery materials will be
| recycled, although there's no indication of how efficient such
| recycling will be in practice. Regardless, expanding battery
| production in the EU will require what looks like large imports
| of mined elements from other parts of the world. Here's what
| looks like the overall plan:
|
| https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/industry/strategy...
|
| Some of the links there ('strategic action plan') discuss the
| importance of securing raw materials:
|
| > "The EU must therefore secure access to the supply chains for
| batteries raw materials. Lithium-ion is currently the main
| chemistry of choice for electro-mobility and will dominate the
| market in the coming years. Various raw materials are required in
| lithium-ion batteries including lithium, cobalt, nickel,
| manganese, graphite, silicon, copper and aluminium. The supply of
| some of these materials, in particular cobalt, natural graphite
| and lithium, is of concern today and for the future in view of
| the large quantities needed and/or very concentrated supply
| sources."
|
| > "The Commission will build on the EU list of Critical Raw
| Materials, established in 2017, to map the current and future
| primary raw materials availability for batteries... [and] use all
| appropriate trade policy instruments (such as Free Trade
| Agreements) to ensure fair and sustainable access to raw
| materials in third countries and promote socially responsible
| mining."
|
| Without secure supplies of raw materials, building a Europe-
| centric battery manufacturing to expand the overall volume of
| battery storage won't be possible, although there are some
| limited European sources of needed materials. Notably the 'third
| [world] countries' that contain most of the 'concentrated supply
| sources' could grow their own economies by domestically
| manufacturing and exporting the batteries themselves...
|
| It's a bit reminiscent of the British approach to the American
| colonies in the 1700's, i.e. "you send us the cotton and we'll do
| the textile manufacturing here, and don't even think about
| setting up your own factories." In particular this use of the
| term 'sustainable suppy' is a bit odd, 'secure' or 'guaranteed'
| or 'not subject to competitive disruption from Chinese buyers'
| might be more accurate.
| carlsborg wrote:
| > there's no indication of how efficient such recycling will be
| in practice
|
| Europe has one of the highest recycling rates in the world.
| Automotive alumiunium has > 90% recycling rate.
|
| I will bet on Germany engineering its way out of the energy
| crisis.
| recuter wrote:
| I admire your optimism, however, it is worth ruminating on
| how Germany engineered its way into the energy crisis in the
| first place.
| mpweiher wrote:
| Nice one ;-)
|
| However, I'd like to point out that Germany _politicked_
| its way into this energy crisis. Engineers really weren 't
| asked.
| jansan wrote:
| Let's just hope that this will be more successful than Quaero and
| Theseus, the European search engine research projects that burnt
| 350 million Euro in government money just to fail spectacularly.
| TheLoafOfBread wrote:
| Or mandatory adding of bio additives (usually rapeseed) into
| gas/diesel to get biofuels, causing ICEs to produce more
| emissions than necessary [1] and screw up engines at the same
| time [2].
|
| [1] https://www.euractiv.com/section/biofuels/news/german-
| study-...
|
| [2] https://norwegianscitechnews.com/2015/05/can-biodiesel-
| damag...
| void-pointer wrote:
| villgax wrote:
| Would like 18650/21700 in all things that can allow for it,
| hopefully with Type-C as well using the TP-4056 modules.
|
| Headphones, wireless automatic lights, mice, AC power via DC
| inverters, better UPSes instead of lead acid ones, more power
| tool battery packs, RPi based computer kits, cars & bikes built
| with serviceable modules instead of one welded pack....these are
| the things that can make for a sustainable future.
| alex_duf wrote:
| It's a bit reductive to look at the format of a battery as a
| solution to the energy transition and energy crisis. But
| fundamentally you're not wrong.
| mnw21cam wrote:
| I wouldn't knock lead-acid for UPS use. That (and turning
| starter motors) is what lead-acid is particularly suitable for.
| They're also _really_ effectively recycled right now.
| pengaru wrote:
| It'd be nice if lead-acid could see some progress on the
| deep-discharge durability front. AIUI whenever people
| currently size lead-acid PV systems for boats/RVs/homes they
| basically get double the battery capacity they intend to use
| to preserve the batteries. That really sucks, and oftentimes
| they still end up accidentally damaging the batteries due to
| a long outage or other oversight/circumstances.
| mnw21cam wrote:
| It'd be nice, sure. But regular deep cycles is precisely
| what lead-acid is _not_ good at. Having said that, LiIon
| isn 't that good at surviving deep discharge either,
| although it is better than lead-acid. A battery management
| system can be used on both, which will turn off the power
| when there's still some juice left, to protect the battery,
| but people only ever seem to attach these to LiIon
| batteries.
| vardump wrote:
| I don't really see how LiFePO4 is not superior to lead acid
| in every possible way. Deep discharge ability alone makes
| LiFePO4 better not to mention over 10x more charge cycles.
|
| But if I'm wrong, I'd really like to learn why, because I'm
| about to buy some batteries.
| mnw21cam wrote:
| Price and ability to recycle.
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