[HN Gopher] Where else in London are there pylons?
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       Where else in London are there pylons?
        
       Author : zeristor
       Score  : 82 points
       Date   : 2022-10-26 07:50 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (diamondgeezer.blogspot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (diamondgeezer.blogspot.com)
        
       | kitd wrote:
       | OT, but UK pylons are gradually being replaced by a new design:
       | 
       | https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2...
       | 
       | The current "Milliken" design as shown in the article has changed
       | very little since 1928.
        
         | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
         | This looks like it belongs on a set of a budget sci-fi movie.
         | So bland, neither elegance nor character.
        
           | exabrial wrote:
           | not sure "making in pretty" and giving in a UI refresh every
           | 5 weeks when the latest version of whatever js framework is
           | released is really in the budget.
        
           | dsfyu404ed wrote:
           | It's for labor savings, not aesthetics.
        
           | dcminter wrote:
           | Allow me to quote to you from a Punch article by E. V. Knox
           | written in about 1930 (collected in "Things That Annoy Me" of
           | 1932):                 The Pylons       (Being the transcript
           | of an unwritten radiologue, dated A.D. 2129)
           | Once again we are threatened with a historical calamity. It
           | is proposed to uproot the graceful pylons which adorn the
           | line of the Sussex Downs and are the sole relics of the
           | electricity cable which carried light and power to our
           | forefathers along the Southern Coasts...
           | 
           | Plus ca change...
        
             | wearsshoes wrote:
             | Does this exist online? When I searched I only found
             | physical copies
        
               | dcminter wrote:
               | I don't think so. He died in 1971 so it's still in
               | copyright though I doubt anyone would care much. I don't
               | know exactly which volume of punch the original article
               | is taken from, and it's possible that that's up there
               | somewhere.
               | 
               | Oh, and I just double checked and my copy was published
               | in 1930; the second edition was 1932. So quite likely the
               | original article was in one of the 1929/1930 run.
        
             | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
             | Aesthetics of public installations has sharply declined
             | since its heyday in the 19th century, so he was probably
             | right.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | detritus wrote:
           | > So bland, neither elegance nor character
           | 
           | Curious, I feel the exact opposite.
           | 
           | I remember the competition that spawned these - they were, by
           | far, my favoured option.. although the idea of wireframe
           | giant humans and ants oVer the countryside was 'interesting'!
           | :
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/environment/gallery/2011/sep/14/.
           | ..
        
             | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
             | I agree the others are even worse than this, but all of
             | them really are terrible, did 5th graders make these?
        
               | jstarfish wrote:
               | Oval's is bleak. Looks like anti-tank caltrops strung
               | together with barbed wire.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | Christ, seriously? I assumed they'd henceforth be underground
         | everywhere - in Dorset some (Milliken) are being replaced with
         | underground cabling, after a petition based on countryside
         | views I believe, but it benefits/doesn't disrupt farmers'
         | fields & future developments too. Presumably once you have that
         | sort of underground trunking it's easier to add other utilities
         | too (even if they don't share any hardware/boring, there's
         | still the planning and mapping etc.).
        
           | namibj wrote:
           | Non-superconducting electrical transmission lines don't want
           | to be buried, it's really expensive and harder to handle/deal
           | with when stuff breaks. You also can't have forest on top of
           | it.
           | 
           | One can hope we get by with the current approach until
           | superconducting lines have been sufficiently figured out (it
           | seems they don't need to run the voltage as high due to
           | current being somewhat easier to deal with than voltage and
           | losses not depending (significantly) on actual current (so
           | thicker cables don't loose as much of their current rating to
           | thermal limits than with traditional cooper/aluminum)).
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | Underground utilities are usually significantly more
           | expensive to construct. That's why overhead power lines are
           | so common.
           | 
           | The installation cost is tends to be so much higher that the
           | potentially lower maintenance costs due to less weather
           | damage doesn't make underground lines lower cost in the two
           | to five decade maturities of utility bonds used for
           | financing.
        
       | bayesian_horse wrote:
       | I think you need to construct additional pylons!
        
       | vr46 wrote:
       | The most dramatic one I know of near a road in London is right
       | here, I used to ride there everyday.
       | 
       | https://maps.app.goo.gl/ucSf4m2TPhqZnDS99?g_st=ic
        
       | walthamstow wrote:
       | Lea Valley between Walthamstow and Clapton is full of them
        
       | n4r9 wrote:
       | That's a pity about the open infrastructure map not having the
       | boundary for greater London. I'm not sure if it helps in any way
       | but you can download an osm cut-out of greater London from
       | Geofabrik: https://download.geofabrik.de/europe/great-
       | britain/england/g... . You would then need a tool that loads an
       | osm file and visualises the infrastructure components.
        
         | pavia-20 wrote:
         | The author gave an update at the bottom of the article: _Sunday
         | update: Russ from Open Infrastructure Map has knocked up some
         | code which generates a precise map of Greater London 's pylons.
         | Thanks Russ!_
         | 
         | Link to Russ' update https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mYa
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | For anyone with time to spare, overpass-turbo is a great way
           | to find/learn/do all kinds of things map-related.
        
       | lepetitpedre wrote:
       | Seems like most of London i supply blocked...
        
       | shubb wrote:
       | The deepest tunnels in London are the electricity grid tunnels.
       | Inner London is served by a whole redundant network of them, and
       | we only hear about it when the power (very occasionally) goes out
       | because one catched fire and they have to wait for it to burn
       | out. The last mile services are all burried too.
       | 
       | It gives the city a very different look from what you get in Asia
       | for instance, and I always ssumed it was because of the lack of
       | earthquakes.
        
         | zeristor wrote:
         | Do you mean like this:
         | 
         | "Inside National Grid's Power Tunnels"
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSzxTgDq3hM
        
           | voxadam wrote:
           | And by extension, "Power, Politics and Pragmatism: The
           | British National Grid" by Tom Scott
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm5khEUIBx0
        
             | zeristor wrote:
             | I was after the Tom Scott video but thought I might have
             | dreamt it.
             | 
             | Mind you Geoff Marshall vs Tom Scott.
             | 
             | I think Geoff Marshall would win a Tunnel off.
        
       | Gys wrote:
       | Pylon:
       | 
       | 1. a tall tower-like structure used for carrying electricity
       | cables high above the ground.
       | 
       | 2. a structure on the wing of an aircraft used for supporting an
       | engine or carrying a weapon, fuel tank, or other load.
        
         | FractalParadigm wrote:
         | Here in Canada we refer to "traffic cones" as pylons. As
         | someone living in London, Ontario, the first couple paragraphs
         | of the OP was particularly funny to read; some sentences could
         | be changed very minimally and apply all the same - "yet in a
         | few places pylons are an intrinsic part of the landscape, like
         | here along the edge of the Royal Docks almost every road, due
         | to construction."
        
           | ThinkingGuy wrote:
           | My first reaction to the article was "We don't really use the
           | word 'pylon' to describe these things, at least not here in
           | the southern United States," though the term makes sense and
           | doesn't sound strange to me at all. But now I'm struggling to
           | thing of what term I personally would use, and honestly, I'm
           | having difficulty. "electrical tower?" "transmission tower?"
        
             | mikestew wrote:
             | "High tension line towers", or...hmm, I guess I don't know
             | what the common usage would be in the U. S., southern or
             | otherwise. And we live a block from a local Redmond, WA
             | trail that follows the line of...high tension towers for
             | miles in either direction.
             | 
             | But between my spouse and me, if we need to refer to them,
             | we just call them "towers". "Pylons" are short little
             | things, such as traffic cones (to borrow an example from
             | another commenter).
        
         | elihu wrote:
         | 3. a Protoss building which costs 100 minerals and supplies 8
         | psi and allows you to warp in other buildings. Protoss
         | executors are frequently reminded to construct more of these,
         | though in my experience the effort might be better spent
         | reminding them to build additional photon cannons instead.
        
       | sklargh wrote:
       | > Sometimes the best questions come while waiting for a train.
       | 
       | Very much yes. Maps to the theme of thinking space we've brought
       | up here over the past 4-5 days.
        
       | bcraven wrote:
       | There is one next to the O2 which is upside-down!
       | 
       | https://www.alexchinneck.com/a-bullet-from-a-shooting-star
        
       | gnfargbl wrote:
       | This is the first time I have seen the Open Infrastructure Map,
       | and I was particularly struck by the global solar distribution:
       | https://openinframap.org/#2/49.5/-53.93/S. Not what I expected,
       | at all.
        
         | te_chris wrote:
         | Wow. Really emphasises the opportunity for more solar in most
         | of the world!
        
           | Sharlin wrote:
           | Assuming the map reflects the territory, obviously. Which is
           | a rather huge assumption.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | On the power layer, it seems the national grid is generally
         | 400kV nominal, with regional sub-grids at 132kV and then towns
         | with 33kV & 11kV. Is that 3x 11kV phases = 33kV? And then 33kV
         | = 1/4 tap of the 132kV? '400kV' is actually 396kV?
        
         | starsep wrote:
         | There are many solar plants not mapped due to lack of high
         | quality, up-to-date aerial/satellite imagery, or volunteers.
         | Germany is country mapped best, not necessarily having
         | significant share of solar.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | Might also be how it's displayed. Germany has quite a bit of
           | solar but its less concentrated in giant solar parks and the
           | country is smaller than US, China, or India.
           | 
           | So for example US has multiple solar farms over 500MW and
           | several over 200MW but none of Germany's solar farms are over
           | 200MW and only 4 are over 100MW.
        
             | nicoburns wrote:
             | A quick google tells me that as of 2021, the US had ~23GW
             | of installed solar generating capacity, and Germany had
             | ~59GW. As the US has roughly 4x the population of Germany,
             | that means that Germany has roughly 12x the amount of
             | installed solar capacity per capita.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Wikipedia gives different 2021 numbers including
               | (percentage of global solar installed)
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country
               | China: 306,973 MW (35.8%)       United States: 95,209 MW
               | (11.1%)       Japan: 74,191 MW (8.7%)       Germany:
               | 58,461 MW (6.8%)       India: 56,951 MW (6.6%)
               | 
               | With 2020 numbers for percentage of electricity
               | generation by solar: Germany 9.7%, Japan 8.3%, India
               | 6.5%, China 6.2%, and US 3.4%
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | In addition, the US govt says [0] this year should have
               | added 46,100 MW to the total. Electrek, if they are
               | accurate, predicted an additional 5,600 MW on residential
               | rooftops in 2022 [1].
               | 
               | [0] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50818
               | 
               | [1] https://electrek.co/2022/08/29/american-residential-
               | solar/
        
               | nicoburns wrote:
               | Interesting. Looks like in my haste I may have been
               | comparing Germany's total installed capacity with the
               | US's newly installed capacity.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | LeanderK wrote:
         | I wonder whether this is due to unreliable data. I am not sure
         | where this is sourced from since tracking all the solar
         | installations seems like a lot of work.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | Yeah, given how abruptly the density of the data shifts based
           | on borders, I strongly suspect there is a data quality
           | problem. The available information is interesting, but
           | comparisons pretty meaningless.
        
       | MichaelZuo wrote:
       | I'm surprised the electrical demands of Greater London can be
       | supplied with so few transmission lines. For comparison the city
       | proper of Toronto has slightly less with a fraction of the
       | population.
       | 
       | Surely a significant portion has to be underground?
        
       | changadera wrote:
       | This squashes the idea of some Londonites to become an
       | independent city state. Try doing that with no electricity
       | generation of your own, and nowhere to build one.
        
         | zeristor wrote:
         | Pretty easy to run a cable in from France n'est pas?
        
         | walthamstow wrote:
         | Where does Singapore get it's electricity from?
        
       | lucidguppy wrote:
       | They must construct additional pylons.
        
         | nemo44x wrote:
         | Speaking as a human/Terran I am very much against this.
        
           | Tangurena2 wrote:
           | They want to make "pylons" - not "cylons". One is good for
           | supplying electricity.
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | Silly Earthling. The Pylons were built by the ancient
           | Altrusians, who devolved into the Sleestak. Do not tamper
           | with the Light Crystals in the Matrix Table, or that will
           | disrupt the weather and summon the Skylons.
           | 
           | https://landofthelost.fandom.com/wiki/Pylons
           | 
           | https://landofthelost.fandom.com/wiki/Altrusian
           | 
           | https://landofthelost.fandom.com/wiki/Crystals
           | 
           | https://landofthelost.fandom.com/wiki/Skylons_(episode)
        
       | bagpuss wrote:
       | this is an interesting art project from 2004 using the EM field
       | around these lines to induce current in an array of fluorescent
       | tubes
       | 
       | https://vimeo.com/11137816
        
         | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
         | Is there a way to watch this without creating an account?
        
           | bagpuss wrote:
           | strange, I was able to view without login. Search "field" by
           | Richard Box, it is on youtube
        
           | bj-rn wrote:
           | You can use: https://player.vimeo.com/video/11137816
        
       | yardstick wrote:
       | The most frustrating thing about these pylons and cables pictured
       | in the article is they come ridiculously close to the buildings
       | beside them.
       | 
       | At one point I was looking at renting an apartment in a building
       | right beside them (Hoola), ultimately didn't, in part because of
       | the power lines. Turns out there is no/little regulation in how
       | far away these lines must be from other buildings.
        
         | toss1 wrote:
         | And those power lines can have very real effects.
         | 
         | When I had a computer network/support business, a somewhat
         | competing business (they were mostly Mac, we were mostly
         | Windows) with strong marketing and weak tech decided to move to
         | a new location. The new location was on an upper floor of a
         | converted old mill building near the river, railroad tracks,
         | and high-voltage power transmission lines, which were just
         | outside the windows on that floor (like only a few meters
         | away).
         | 
         | Several months later, they were out of business. The rumor
         | around town was that they'd frequently lost large amounts of
         | data and/or customer's entire drives (floppy and hard).
         | 
         | I'm not sure if this was because they were all marketing and
         | weak technologists and it just caught up with them in higher
         | error rates with more biz, or if it was just one big error of
         | being ignorant of the EM fields from the power lines outside
         | windows (which I did hear second-hand that they'd started
         | having random data loss in the new location, took too long to
         | understand it, and were doomed by the time they figured it
         | out).
         | 
         | I'd also read about when the Tennessee Valley Authority started
         | installing some of the first high-voltage transmission lines in
         | the US, a clever adjacent homeowner buried a long wire in a set
         | of coils under the lines and ran it to his house to supply
         | power. He was eventually caught and argued that he wasn't
         | stealing electricity because he was only collecting ambient
         | power. He lost, as although the device was not mechanically
         | contacting the lines, it was still of course
         | electromagnetically coupled -- the phenomena of which he was
         | taking advantage.
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | When I joined a web portal, that was part of Brazil's second
       | largest telco, to manage a couple project teams (in 2008), one
       | thing I got was a nice coffee table book describing that telco's
       | data network in exquisite detail, down to detailed maps of fiber
       | placement, routers, radio towers, and repeaters.
       | 
       | I called it the "modern terrorist handbook" because, with it,
       | anyone so inclined could almost completely cripple Brazil's
       | communications.
        
         | WeylandYutani wrote:
        
           | forgotusername6 wrote:
           | We've seen multiple acts of telecoms sabotage in the past
           | month. Shetland and Marseille cables cut.
        
             | DonHopkins wrote:
             | Putin's a high tech terrorist with lots of technical
             | expertise, who regularly destroys so much infrastructure
             | and shopping malls and murders a hell of a lot more people
             | every day than you can by driving a car into a crowd.
        
       | jzellis wrote:
       | We've got a line of em out between Watford and Rickmansworth
       | along the Colne. (Just outside of Greater London but inside the
       | Orbital.) One is my favorite - it's in a field by itself next to
       | where I walk for exercise, and something about it is weirdly
       | peaceful, like a remnant of a vanished civilization.
        
         | Steve44 wrote:
         | I'm not too far from you, there are quite a lot in the Iver
         | area. One comes in and crosses the M25, then there is quite a
         | lot of them between Iver Heath and Uxbridge.
        
           | dazzawazza wrote:
           | There is a string coming in from Colne valley to Harefield.
           | There are some lovely walks next to the Grand Union Canal
           | there.
           | 
           | They recently had to divert the power lines for the HS2 line
           | ripping it's way through.
        
       | dumb1224 wrote:
       | Plenty if you ride your train further south enough. Starting from
       | Wimbledon substation.
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.4307/-0.1884
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-26 23:02 UTC)